Research finds young men’s attitudes on rape allegations

0:00Lunchtime Live with Andrea Gilligan on News Talk. We want to chat about this survey today from the Dublin Rap Crisis Center that 48% of men under the age of 25 living in Ireland believe that there are a lot of false rape allegations. But 19% of other adults feel that way too. But what this survey found is that there's significant differences in attitudes towards sexual violence between young men and the rest of the population. Take a listen to Rachel Marrow. She's the CEO of the Dublin Rap Crisis Center and she was talking about this research to Claire a little earlier this morning. It's a really high figure because it puts the blame, I suppose, on women mostly because women are the ones who mostly experience rape and sexual violence. It's a very harmful myth and actually it's being proven time and time again that it does happen but it happens very rarely.

1:04And actually it's a lot more common for the perpetrator in sexual offense cases to deny that they did anything wrong and we see the high level of conviction. So they often plead not guilty and then they're fined to be guilty. So actually that burden of lies and untreats actually lies with the perpetrator. So the reason that it's so harmful is that if you're somebody who's experienced sexual violence and you tell a young man what happened to you, their first and initial response maybe not to believe you and to think that you're lying. I'm joined in studio today by Kira Mangan who's the founder, I am CEO of Beyond Surviving and also a fellow survivor of rape as well. And Chris Ruck who's a sexual assault survivor and advocate both with me in studio good afternoon to you both. Kira can I just maybe ask you first of all, you know, look when you hear that headline figure today that we nearly have half of men under the age 25 living in Ireland today in 2026

2:06that believe there are a lot of false rape allegations. What does that say to you? Well, I was struck by the the lack of belief I suppose in survivors and that can be really felt in survivors themselves where they can carry that burden with them. It's something that we hear time and time again at Beyond Surviving, you know, survivors are holding that and internalising that and that belief can really create such a huge barrier and be so significant for survivors in reporting, in seeking support, in telling somebody or even pursuing justice at all. And what the surveys today declared to me really was that survivors feeling of not being believed is certainly affirmed through the results in this survey and that it's very real for them to feel like that and that they're validated in that thoughts. That they don't, that victims

3:08don't feel believed in the first instance and then nearly they're right to feel like that. Yeah, you know, because that's what the stats are telling us and we see as well in recent weeks survivors spoke to this almost dual existence that they have within society where they feel misunderstood, not understood and whether or not it's even worth it to explain their experiences to others because of how that may be perceived or how they they they're hearing that it will be perceived by others and how it would be received and the response that they will get from others if they do have that courage to disclose that. So that's a real fear for survivors who can do carry. And I suppose Chris, you know, like for I was even just thinking about this earlier this morning when I was listening to somebody analysis of it, like if I was somebody today who had unfortunately gone through any kind of sexual assault or rape and was thinking, you know, to go to the authorities and go and report this, like the idea that I'm now hearing that it's not just the 48%

4:11of men under 25, there's 19% of other adults who too feel that a lot of rape accusations, a lot of these allegations that there is a lot of them are false. Like that's got to be a deterrent for people out there today here and that. It does. And I think I think curious spoken to that quite well to the deterrent for survivors. I think the other side of it is, you know, I think it's interesting to hear talk about the fear for survivors. I think there's also clearly a fear for young men there. The fear and the fear is that they are going to be accused of something that they believe they haven't done. And I think, you know, all of us have young men in our lives, all of us, you know, no young men and people who, you know, and most of them are decent and most of them are trying their best. And I think the question there is, you know, we can show the fact show that, you know, false accusations are minuscule. So facts aren't working. So I think the question is, we need to talk to men and we need to engage with men where their fears are asked and I lay those fears and help them understand more, you know, or not help them understand more, but work with them

5:13to create a common basis of what consent is, what sexual violence looks like because that to me is the piece that's missing here. How do we do that? Because behind these columns of stats today, and there's, you know, plenty other figures in the in the report that we can talk about, but without kind of, you know, sort of throw and load of figures at listeners, this was what we do here in C today is the significant differences just in attitudes between young people and older people, and everybody else in between. So how do we address that? I think what we probably need to do is move away from this idea thus everyone acts perfectly. You know, and we need to open up a space where people could be more honest about their experiences, can be open about their experiences, and we can have a, you know, a dialogue about them. I think at the moment there is a sense for men that they need to act perfectly all the time, you know, and they, if not, they will be accused of something. And the fact of the matter is that we have all probably done something in a situation that was not ideal, that may have been harmful, and we are all fallible and none of us are perfect

6:14in that sense. And I think we have to bring that into the conversation and not, you know, abandon the need for a pure heat test around this issue, but bring in some vulnerability, bring in some sense of, we, you know, again, we have all, we have all done those, you know, done things that are probably, we're not ideal. And the reason that we have done those things is because we weren't equipped with the tools to do them in the first place. And the young men are being equipped with the tools to handle relationships and sex and consent. Like none of us were. We've all been through the, well, maybe we've been through the sexhead system in Ireland. It's not grace. And I think that's, you know, that's where we can begin to have those conversations. Because I think if we can bring men into those conversations, then we will, we will, a lay those concerns as well. And we will build a common sense of what consent and sexual violence is, which will allow us to, you know, deter, you know, determine who is acting in good faith here and who is, you know, mistaken in their beliefs and who is actually malicious. How do we do that, Kira? It sounds like it, look, is that something that should happen in the classroom? Is it an, is it an external, how do you handle that? Education, more awareness calling out the behavior on the football pitch, you know, standing

7:23with survivors, calling wrong, wrong and speaking more openly about it. I think there's a lot of education to go into the, the impact and the life changing impact that sexual violence has. And, you know, survivors would say that they feel like others just simply don't get it. They don't understand the pervasiveness of it. They don't understand the life changing alterations it has to your life. So just talking a little bit more about that is, you know, and bringing awareness to the severity of, of, of this crime. Because it is, and you made that point like it's, this is probably something that's holding people back. The idea that there is kind of skeptical attitudes out there, we've constantly heard people's survivors talk about, you know, the fear of victim blaming and that that maybe has been an experience that they've had themselves. Those

8:23are underterrence for reporting, aren't they? Yeah, I mean, what survivors want is to be heard, understood, to be supported, to be believed. And it's as simple as that. And I think that onus is on everybody to fully comprehend and take into consideration the, the, what this really is, the impact of these crimes and how it affects people. I often go back to, you know, it's not enough for it to just land on your own doorstep to care. There has to be, you know, a real commitment to, to, to understanding what this crime is and how it affects so many people, particularly in this country. I suppose parents of the greatest role of all, Chris and this, don't they? With their, like, with their sons and daughters and in talking to them about consent, about attitudes, towards allegations that are made, like, probably parents in as much as education. Yeah, I think parents have a role. I think we all have a role. You know, I think it's one thing to talk, you know, I think it's always easiest for us to talk about these things in terms of other people.

9:27When these are, you know, practices, many of us are leading active sex lives. We are all engaging in this all the time. And so actually there is a benefit for all of us in engaging in these conversations. Yes, in terms of the young men in the survey, yes, you know, having, many of whom will be in, you know, education, you know, education systems and education circumstances, then yes, absolutely, you know, their parents, their educators and the systems that surround them will have a huge role to play. But I think it's up to all of us to, you know, at all ages of life and at all stages of life, it doesn't matter if you've been in a relationship for 30 years or if you're, you know, 18 and having your dating for the first time, you know, I think these issues are synonymous around us. They are all around us. They influence all of our relationships. And I think, you know, there's an element there that, you know, all of us have a role to play in, in maintaining, you know, and, and, and again, coming together to form that common understanding. 31% of men under the age of 25, Kira, in this report, 31% say that someone who doesn't make a report to the guards shouldn't be believed.

10:30Like that's, and that says instantly that they have absolutely no idea what it takes to report a crime to even tell somebody what happened to you. And it's a very, it can be a very confusing experience. We can have blocked memories. And trauma can take over and completely, you know, erase certain aspects of your attack. It's, it's a better understanding of the, the real traumatic effect that these crimes have on people's brains. Reporting is no easy quest at all. The odds are always stacked against you because we're being fed the information constantly, you know, in the region of 67% of cases don't go forward to pass, pass the DPP. The length of time that it takes these cases to progress through the courts, the current system at the moment would be deterrent in itself. And the conviction rates, the burden of proof,

11:37I mean, it's not an easy decision. And to be honest, an easier decision is not to pursue that for the sake of your mental health. Can I just say to Kira when we're talking about this, we're not, we're not talking in the main or necessarily about, you know, it's, it can be both genders. I mean, this is a tax on men as well as it's a tax on, on women. We're just talking about the, the figures today that tell us that we've got 31% of men under the age of 25 who, who feel that when somebody doesn't come forward and make a report to the authorities, to the likes of the garter that they shouldn't, that they shouldn't be believed 2% of their female peers also agreed with that as well, Chris. Yeah. I guess I am in a situation where I did report to the guards and I didn't go through the court process. So I guess I fall into that in some way. And it's, it's really tough to hear. Again, I think what Kira's identified there is true in the sense that it is a lack of understanding both of the crime and the system then that that you would have to go

12:37through. And when you're going through that, again, I come back, I come from, from a prevention and, you know, and for thinking board of you, which is if we had more education around, you know, what that system looks like, the fact that people aren't, you know, doing it from money that these are criminal cases, you know, it's, it's a whole, you know, set of the procedure doesn't go down that route at all, I think is, is important to acknowledge. And you make that point, Kira, like it's, it is, it's actually very difficult even to, to bring a case forward in the first place, to go through with it. I mean, even before, aside from the fact that it has to go through the DPP and, and they have to be satisfied that, you know, they feel this is something that they can, they can go forward with. But then for the victim, the person going through it, the survivor, they are faced with the whole onslaught of going through a court's experience. And it's, it's very easy for people to say, just report it. And I do remember my naïveety at that point in time, just, you know, this immediately happened. And I told somebody, oh, report it. That is,

13:39it's not as simple as that. It's, you're, you're going into a very long grueling process, where, you know, it's going to take a taxing effect on your, on your whole well-being, from mental health to emotional, psychological, everything. And it's, it's not a decision that you take lightly. And I suppose in terms of, you know, where that statistic is coming from in terms of, perhaps only being believed once the conviction is secured, we're seeing so many more women now, and men waving their anonymity. And, and that's when these cases are being heard in the public. And that's a very brave thing to do. And that's why I would continuously, you know, applaud the women that do that and make it to that stage as well. Just maybe on a final point today, to both, um, Chris, for anybody, you know, tuned in that, like that, is, is maybe thinking of going forward, or they've, they've, they've unfortunately had an experience like this. What would you say to

14:43them? Because I know it's easy for us to say, go and report it, but yeah, I see your advice. Um, my advice is someone who, who did report, and then chose not to go forward. You know, I think you, you don't owe anyone anything in that situation. I think you can do what you'd like in your own time. Um, and I think, you know, the question, the question for someone in that role is always going to be sort of what supports are available to you and what can you do to heal best, I guess, the question. And that's going to be slightly different for everyone. There are, there are support services out there. There aren't enough support resources out there. Um, we need to, you know, and certainly every time I'm given a mic, I'm going to tell the government to fund it more. But, you know, I think I think it is, it's, it's difficult to tell people what to do except to take a breath and that they, they are allowed to feel however they feel and choose whatever they would like to do that that would help that. You as was your own experience, Kira, you've like obviously set up the beyond surviving, you know, group as well. And you've actually turned the incident that happened to you and haven't gone through the courts, um, into one now of kind of

15:48advocacy, I suppose, really in, in your own role. But what would you say to people listening today? That, you know, you are believed. That's what's that, that's what struck me from reading the statistics today and the survey. Um, and, you know, whatever you choose, just like Chris said, to do in terms of your own healing and pursuit of justice, if that's something that you choose to do, then you do that. Um, perceptions, this is something that we'll have to work on and the continuous attitudes that are coming through in this report, there's still a lot of work to do in that area. If people want to get in touch with you through the group, work out to do that. So you can get in touch with beyond surviving at beyond surviving.ie and, um, that's the same for our social accounts as well. Um, just as well to mention the, the national, the 24 hour, the helpline number for the rape crisis center, their helpline phone number is 1800 double seven, double eight, double eight, that's 1800 double seven, double eight, double eight, some of the personal stories and experiences coming into us. Look, if you want to share yours, drop us an

16:52email. It's launchtimelive at newstalk.com and we might actually come back to this, perhaps tomorrow as well on the program. Here are Megan, Chris Rook. Thanks a million to you both for joining us here on launchtimelive today. Lunchtime live with Andrea Gilligan weekdays at midday on news talk conversation that counts.