Player Development & Team Culture with Brian Keefe of Washington Wizards

0:00Welcome back to season two of Beyond the Court with League 1 volleyball where we deep dive with some of the top coaches and leaders in volleyball and beyond. I'm your host Courtney Thompson and we are so fired up to continue bringing insights from some amazing humans that can help us all in ways that go far beyond the court. Today's guest is Brian Keefe, the head coach of the Washington Wizards and one of the NBA's top developers of talent. Brian thank you so much for taking the time. I know you're incredibly busy and we connected a few months ago and you were very generous with your time and thought and helpful with our player experience. So thanks again for hanging out with us. Yeah great. Thanks for having me looking forward to the conversation. Yeah and you guys you're two days away from your first game. Yeah. Out in Washington. How's your how's preseason been? How are you feeling? Yeah, I feel good. Good training's been good. We've had about two and a half weeks in here to train you camp. I feel good about what our guys have been doing. Very purposeful intentional work and just kind of excited to get the season started

1:03on Wednesday. Nice to see you and chat with you. Yeah right on. Well just the tight to volleyball where most of our listeners are volleyball coaches. Your daughter plays at T Street, right? Yeah she plays for the 13 ones at T Street. She's a center which I know it's part of her dear, dear heart. But yeah she's just love and volleyball loves T Street. The coaches and the whole organization's been amazing. The club. It's fun to get to know the game. It's new to me too. Yeah, it's so fun. I'm excited to dive into that in a bit here. But so your your story is pretty phenomenal and I know you started in a video room back in the day. You're obviously now a head coach of an NBA team. Like when you look back at that, what do you find most meaningful in your career path and where you are now? Yeah, you know I played a little bit in college. I played for a long time but I always knew I want to coach both my parents were my mom was a teacher. My dad coached me in new sports so it's

2:03not a surprise that I gravitated toward this. You know I wanted to I started right after I got out of school and I just wanted to I always wanted to be a college coach. This kind of was the initial goal. But then I found like the NBA and that was going to be my path because of a lot of it. There's a lot of youth in our league now and I could feel like I could still feel the mentorship guidance of people's careers that I could do in college and I could do in the NBA. So it's very lucky to get a start in San Antonio which is like getting a PhD in basketball at the time. You know my second year we ended up wearing the championship there. So it was around this so many great coaches and like obviously great pop pitch and RC view for their leadership. But then you know some of the players. I was around Tim Duncan and Wanojin normally in Tony Parker and Brent Barry and Bruce brought all these guys who were just total pros that had just a huge influence on my career and my coaching. So I was very blessed and then I've kind of followed the zigzag a little bit around

3:05here across the NBA but now I've landed up here and very grateful to be with the Wizards. That's so cool. The Spurs have a soft spot in my heart because I know this is before you were there but David Robinson went to the Naval Academy. Yeah. Where my whole family kind of went as well other than me and so I did my whole like six grade project on him and yeah. He's first fan. Yeah he's great. He was around the team when it's tremendous guy obviously ambassador for the team the community. He was part of the ownership group when I was there so yeah. Oh right on. Yeah. So I want to I want to dive into player development. I know in our first conversation I was so I was geeking out on what you were sharing and I know you're known for this as well but when you think about kind of your philosophy for creating the ultimate learning environment like what do you go to? Yeah I think for us and with some we started a long time ago we really look at each person as a unique person and we look at it holistically and what I mean by that is that we don't just develop like the could be

4:07involved while you're setting skills you're hitting skills are embassable shooting or passing we really look at as the whole person and kind of evaluate you in different areas obviously there's skills that you need to work on but there's also stuff that you need to do in terms of how you are in the performance area or the medical space and obviously the mental space is a big one too we think so like we really try to look at the player as a whole and we kind of like try to set up goals and things that they have in each one of those areas to kind of help propel them be the best versions of themselves and we just don't think that's this one area we think that's the whole person so we look at like as a really a 360 of that individual player and then we just put the resources and time and activities into stuff to help build the things that we're talking about but what big thing for us too is that you have to engage the athlete like it's you know there's a lot of ownership and accountability autonomy I mean that they need to have this is their program right there development and we're here to support them and guide them but really if you can

5:12get the buy-in from them that's the most powerful thing love that are there when it comes to like on court development are there habits that are kind of non-negotiables for you maybe daily weekly monthly do you think of it like that or is it yeah for sure I think one of the things that for elite athletes and I think this is can be something for use for anybody when they're first starting out is creating routines and structures playing is really hard I think performing is really hard I don't think people get enough I don't think athletes get enough credit for having to perform and how do you how do you do that how do you repeat that how do you become consistent I think the elite players and elite athletes are consistent and I think it's their consistency of approach a lot of things that we talk about and this I think is good for anybody is that what's your routines what's your structures like you know when you're getting out what time you come into the gym what time are you on the table to

6:14get your treatment what time are you lifting what's your nutrition program like what time are you you know what's your sleeping are you taking a nap in between the game all these little structures build that we think consistency of performance which is the most important thing at the end of the day we are playing to win yeah playing games to compete so how do you build the structures and routines for yourself to be able to do that so we're not even talking about hey what's the specific things we'll work on just how do you structure your day how do you structure your life to be able to be consistent our league is very difficult because the amount of games we play and a lot of travel we have yeah so these things really come into effect but I think they can be taken for anybody the people I've been around and been really lucky to been around some really high-level people they are definitely the most structured routine people they have real strict habits on how they get themselves right to play I think that can carry over for any sport I love that there's so much freedom on the other side of that I love also I find it a

7:14pretty common trait of high-level coaches that they're the humility of how hard it is to compete at a high level like even the vulnerability it takes in the discipline so it's it's cool to hear you come from that place this may be a more high-level athlete that wrestles with this but do you how do you think of like reps that are good for athletes that maybe they need in your perspective versus reps that they want to like feel good or or whatever that might be do you have that struggle or does that come up for you for sure I think there's an interesting looking at how you train for sure I do think you know one of the things we focus on here with our group is we'd like to focus on things that are actually going to transfer to the game so we put you in situations that are going to be game like in terms of like maybe there's a contested or someone's guarding you or it's you're gonna have to make a decision because there's so many decisions in the game so try to put stuff where

8:17you have to process things we also like to put stress on things because the game is stressful and chaotic so we try to create learning environments where decisions have to be made things that are gonna look like the game and they're gonna put you in enough stress not too far we think but enough that you're just a little bit above your edge that maybe you're capable of doing that's gonna make you grow there's another side to that too there's also a part that you need to have reps that you feel like hey this is just gonna I'm gonna feel good about this I know I'm gonna you know some of this is for us train like we like to do a lot of variable shooting which would mean like we're putting different contest you're running to different spots you're not shooting the same spot every time but then there's a time where hey you need to stand in the same spot there's gonna be no defense you're gonna make eight out of attendees because we know that's gonna put you in a good mental space there is a balance with that for sure yeah but we probably tends to lean more putting them in the chaotic stressful environments we think that's what's

9:18gonna eventually lead you to be game conditions which really that's what really happens we think so we but I do think there's a part for that too for sure yeah I love that do you get pushback from it from your athletes or is it at that point they're just like all right you know I mean no I think what no now really our guys have been great with that we've been training people like this for a long time I think before the game we don't do that stuff as much probably we probably try to just kind of keep it more of a setting like hey we're just out there getting loose we're getting warmed up and we know that the engines are already revved it's time to go but definitely in our training sessions here in the gym during practices and that type of thing where it's a little bit more of a learning environment where they got to make decisions yeah I want to double click on kind of the design of training when you think of I know we talked about like ecological dynamics and this a lot of variables and you know putting them under stress could you walk us through to

10:19high level the like the arc of your training so there's like activation small group games individual into five on five or how does that look for you guys you must have read my practice plan that's not that's exactly how we do it yeah so we kind of the way we do it is interesting we always do a little bit of an activation we kind of split up groups we'll do a group that does some activation with our performance team but that's generally very much and stuff in terms of basketball stuff it's not just running up and down toe touches that type of thing it's more dynamic and then we'll have another group doing smaller group doing like teaching them some concepts that we might be working on the day it could be very light but it's kind of an introduction to something and then we will flip the groups and then after that it's pretty much on we're putting them in situations where they're gonna have to make decisions they're gonna have to read that can be in small groups through on

11:19three four and four that could be then leading into five on five and then we get to situations where it's live play most days when we're we have a few days in between games but pretty much pretty quickly we're putting them in this situations that is gonna resemble the game that's gonna be pretty stressful yeah I love it if you were if you were in charge of youth basketball is a load of question yeah kind of with with this in mind what are I don't know what are some big shifts you would hope or you would try to make in the name of both performance and also learning and experience of a young athlete I would probably have people play more small-sized games for sure more touch time the more touching the ball this could be for anything I think this can go as I'm learning volleyball this can go for volleyball I love when they do those short court to be two things I think like three on three two on two for basketball more time you got to touch the ball and more decision you had to make where it's

12:22a little bit not overcoached that these guys are learning guys girls are learning to make reads and you know perceive things that's gonna happen in the game I think that really speeds up development and that would probably say hey and you're really young hopefully they're playing multiple sports trying out different things yeah in what they like I think that's a big thing is you gotta decide what you want to do what you know what activity it doesn't have to be sports you know you hope the kids is keep coming back and they want to participate I think that's a big thing for coaches if you could have the kids want to come back for the next year I think you're doing a good job right I think the youth coaching is so important because they're helping develop the love for the game I had great youth coaches my dad obviously was one of them but they're the ones that helping you drive that stuff and creating a good environment it's fun but where they can learn and it's not just we're gonna put you in

13:23place you're gonna play this certain way now we're gonna actually gonna allow you to grow and learn and learn how to play I think that would be help I love that if you were if you were coaching a youth team what what would the three values be like hey this season these guys are gonna walk away with like deeply understanding this if nothing else what would I don't know those three things I wouldn't be any different from the team I have now it's consistency of habits right can you have great consistent work habits on an everyday basis if we can walk away with that if I was coaching younger people for sure number one can it be a good teammate I think can you and that's you know the responsibility of showing up every day in practicing hard lifting up people I think that's why sports is so great and I obviously love some team sports obviously but it's like there's a responsibility to showing up for your team being on time being punctual bringing good energy picking up a teammate when they're down hopefully

14:26they're picking you up when you're struggling because everybody's gonna have some tough moments and I think the last one would be the resilience part for me like it's not always gonna go well life isn't perfect sports is definitely a represent that's in their microcosm that happens a lot you're gonna have some struggles how can you learn from that how can you move on to the next thing could be next possession or next day or next match or next game I think if you could develop some of those skills that would be a pretty good year I love it fired up is it ever is it ever hard with your daughter in a different way like I don't have kids yet but I imagine I've been in this space and I'm saying these things to coaches and there's probably a moment you're like oh this is a little tougher when she's in it a bit oh I think you're free your own kids you always want the best for them um I have another daughter who's into ballet so like we have two of them doing stuff and they're wanting to grow and get better um you wanted to just always go smoothly but you realize and I'm sure this happened your career like the hard stuff is good um yeah it teaches you

15:32a lot and it teaches you resilience and it teaches you hard work and commitment but for your own child sometimes you probably just want it to go a little smoother but you realize like that stuff doesn't make it you know some of that difficult is okay but I think it's hard on appearance for sure I love it uh okay I want to dive in a little more to culture as a whole I know you've spent a lot of time creating some of the best the best ones here but when you think of the one through line through the best cultures you've been a part of and helps create what would you point to oh that's a great question um it culture it's interesting term that people use right kind of one things we talk about is cultures like the air that you breathe right so it's to me it's really environment and what's your environment look on every day you know I think you obviously for us we can there's selecting of players and that type of thing but we we want to get people who love the craft um who love the game um who are committed to

16:36working on it every day um we want to help others do that same too who can uplift that I think those are the things that I think about when you talk about culture can you create an environment where people can feel safe they can be themselves that they can work um they can get better every day that they have a really that growth mindset I think that's so important that that they believe that they can get better but how they do that is you have to work out it you have to get feedback so to me it's just like what you feel on a day-to-day basis can you create an environment where people want to come in and get better every day and improve can take feedback I think everybody who can support that um staff and that's where you know I think coaches are so important you're helping shape that and it's not just coaches it's can be support staff in terms of strengthening our medical staff or anybody who's touching the players you want to create an environment where people know that they're there to be supported that they're there to help

17:38them get better and that we're going to really work out this every day and if that's those are the things I think about yeah is it uh one way to frame that might be psychological safety or creating a place where they're seen and and they trust you enough is there ever a challenge of balancing that and holding to a standard uh yes I think they do go hand in hand but yes I I've always looked at as like it's a shared standard um that's a shared things with everybody um it's not my standard it's actually all of our standards um and there's an agreement that if we all drop and that could be me dropping below the standard too yeah that we all had to hold each other to that um I think that's important because it's it's everybody in it together and you're all creating this vision of what you want to be and what you want to become and we should all of the hold each other to that and that's I think that responsibility of being like a good teammate like your

18:38responsibility to show up for yourself would also show up for your teammate um so that's why I've always looked at the like the accountability to that it's not my rules it's our own rules it's what we develop as a group as a team and you're always working through that and you're gonna have ups and downs throughout the season but that's how we have always thought about it yeah I love that I mean it was interesting thinking through some questions for you and I was like yeah well that's about pros and then juniors and then I realized a lot of your athletes are like from high school so it's it's wildly kind of the same often the same age but if someone is not being a great teammate or maybe their habits aren't great uh and they're kind of acting up what are some things that you go to first to help that person and the team yeah I think it's interesting the one thing I've always thought about this and I learned this you talk about where you learn to think I learned this from my mother very early on she was a teacher she just taught second third grade kindergarten agent you gotta set the tone at the beginning so you talk about beforehand how this is

19:44how we're gonna operate this is how we're going to do things and if things arise this is how we're gonna deal with things so it's I never look at this as a fixing something or a I'm injured I got to fix the injury after learned we're gonna do this beforehand and we're gonna set the tone for how we're gonna operate and everybody knows how we're gonna operate and it doesn't always happen that right there are things that happen that happens to every team I'm sure that's happened to every team that you've been on yeah oh this happens there's a million teams that I've been on well then it's just honest with them you know I think hopefully that my players would know that I care about them first I think for me the biggest thing is you gotta start with the relationships it has this has very little to do with the sport get to know them as people what they're about gets to know they're people who they are where they're from their story we talk about that a lot with our group yeah let's get to know each other's stories we all have a unique backgrounds how we got here I think yeah this is what I haven't probably mentioned that this is a big one for me in terms of

20:47culture's empathy can I put myself in someone other shoes can I learn about this person can I get to know who they are what they value because then I think that leads to like everybody's gonna have a performance step or someone might step you know out of the line of what we think is acceptable well and if you can come to them pretty quickly and swiftly honestly they know it's coming hopefully from a good place um that's how I always did I just hit it straight forward right between the eyes yeah pretty quickly and they might always love it at the when I say it sometimes beyond it but I think eventually they respect it because they know it's coming from a good place for sure I it's cool to hear you talk about that I think I might have said this the first time we talked but it reminds me of hearing Pete Carroll talk about kind of strength-based and you know celebrating people who who for who they are not just tolerating and that's actually a pretty big shift but when it comes to and and maybe with the lens of like a younger athlete obviously

21:50there's a personal side of it but even on the court when it comes to putting someone in a position of strength versus working on you know areas they need to improve is that feedback ever challenging or how do you think about really again honoring their strengths and coming from that place but also helping them develop yeah I think for sure like you know that's our role as a coach is to try to put them as many positions as possible to be successful to play to what they're capable of there's a reason they're here for us like they're they have things that they're capable of there are always things that they can get better at there is no one I haven't met anybody as a perfect player and I've been around some of the all-time great's been very lucky there's always going to be stuff and I think that's where you can have if someone's honest about this is an environment where people want to get better that this is that's the type of a place it is and the people that you want around you then they're open to say hey these are things that we think you can work on these are conversations that you can have honestly and most of them are

22:53pretty they want to get better they want to get coached they want to they're seeking feedback but again I think it starts with the relationship parts if you don't invest they don't they're not going to hope they're not going to listen that well but yes you want to play the strengths but I think people are always open to feedback if they really truly want to get better yeah and cast improvement so addicting so fun to get better I feel like you can handle a lot of hard if you feel like you're also seeing some improvements yeah that's right um this is probably an obvious answer from what you've shared but when you if you were talking to a group of coaches how what how would you talk through role clarity like how would you approach that yeah yeah um I think there's some basic ones than some of this stuff like you know people you know would you can get technical with some of this stuff right in terms of like whatever sports you're in but like the first part is like how you show up every day and how you how you are every day and how you are in the environment

23:59every day that I think you start with that always um but then it's you're having conversations I think you just you're dishonest with people you know this is where I think you can help our team this is where I think you're going to be it doesn't mean that that's going to be that way forever this is where I think it is I think you just got to be straightforward and honest if you sidestep it don't address it I think that's those things that can fester um the other communication part is really big we I think we all can do better that I know I can keep growing at that um you got to open up the lines of communications so people can know what they're feeling allowed them to speak their minds too um this is not a one way street I believe you've got to be able to open to have some conversations because coaches aren't perfect I think that we should talk about that like we're not we're not perfect we don't always have all the answers um I've learned a way more from players over the years like players are very smart they see everything they feel everything and they're really it they see they can really teach you a lot if you're

25:01open to that too I think that's why this is always to me a shared thing it's not coach over player play you know it's it's a it's an environment where hope you're doing it together yeah I've learned so much from players over there it's amazing that's so fun does anything stand out to you like a one moment or feedback that an athlete gave you that shifted some stuff for you I think from a totalis this I probably don't I probably won't mention anybody specifically but right now but just watching how people work um I've been I think I've been like four or five maybe maybe five or six MVPs have been around and there's not an accident by that it's their everyday commitment to this um how they work how they commit to their training how they live but also that the game is not easy even for those people and they have struggles during the game they have struggles during the season and their ability to train the mental side pretty

26:04impressive and how they can work through issues and solutions and get to the next stuff pretty quickly those are the guys who always impress me um the mental sides are really interesting part yeah how much how much do you guys train that as a team as individuals and then a third sorry that's a lot of questions but also for you I'm curious like I feel like coaches that are able to recover well have you know they can show up with the energy and the engagement and challenge that you're talking about because it's hard yeah that seems really hard for me too so how do you think about all those yeah I mean I'll you know I'm always you know I think you got to admit that you're always at work in progress and there have been moments probably for me and my coaching career that I've a maybe have lost my cool or I you know can snap and maybe I've lost focus for a couple of minutes then it's not helpful for my team um but you know how quickly you can recover on that in those ways yeah I think you can do that there's things you can do um I'm always a work in progress some

27:05still working on those things myself you know but I think you have to acknowledge that you know is say hey can I get better too I think that's one of the things we talk about here we ask our players to really work on getting better but if we're not self evaluating ourselves then we're not holding up our instinct too so I think there's always work for coaches if we're just you know talking to the coaches out there's we have to evaluate ourselves are we improving are we seeking out things that can help us are we learning from other things maybe outside sports or conversations with different people I always think if you you can learn something from everywhere I think that you can take that into your coaching I love that when you're when you're working to be your best for a game what is your what are a few things that help you routine wise to like drop into that and can you articulate what that's like three I don't want to I don't know maybe you don't want to share that either which is understand no no no um yeah to me it's just I try to keep the same

28:05routine instructor I um that I've always had you know how I prepare like you know we're with our teams in the morning usually we have like a little many practices they call shoot rounds in the morning so I'll have my stuff that I do the night before to get ready for that we'll have our meetings in the morning with the coaches and then we go into our training and then we have a little bit of time in between games that could be you know exercise a little bit just to clear the mind a little bit of preparation before the game so I think it's just a routine and structure that I have to make sure that I'm ready for myself for the game to be the best version for team I try to stay pretty strict to the routine and the structure that I've created for myself yeah it's like I think for the players I don't have to perform like them mine mine's a little different but I do have to be sharp and with it so I can be helpful for the group to perform yeah absolutely that's so interesting I found the the timing of coaching was really challenging for me and my very limited time is I coaching college for a year and just you have all this info and

29:11nuance and feeling and then like you have like a 30-second impact moment you know yeah yeah that's wild I think it takes this practice I can remember when I first started yeah I probably talked a lot more when I first started and I definitely talked a lot less now you learn how to be more efficient with your words yeah think your spots because you know you played nobody wants to hear the coach talk the whole time no yes until you're the coach then you're like what I got all this to share that's right oh great how would you when you think about your feedback your approach to feedback is it any different in a timeout versus like in a practice do you try to keep them similar yeah yeah I think those things can vary in in terms of the team and where you're at or you know you got to read the room in the game a lot of times like hey what does the team need those are quicker ones because they're a little 30-second blast in timeout so you get obviously half-time and stuff practice is the same thing it's a little different you got a little bit more time but

30:16you know you're always trying to figure out when when we're timing we like to listen and practice we're probably more different that's how we do this in the game too we listen some feedback from them like we I think that's a really big part of learning it's like I'm just telling telling telling and not asking they're not gonna grow can they speak of what's going on are they seeing what are you seeing we'll talk about that in the games hey give us you know everyone smells say hey what do you got what are you guys seeing what are you feeling engaging the learner I think is a big thing so like we're very much in what we practice we're like that for sure I love it um one of the coolest quotes that I read about you was that you have this you have any unique ability to see things for what they can be instead of kind of what they are right now or what what is most probable more in that space of what's possible yeah but when you think of leading a team or even an individual like how would how do you coach that vision or an athlete to have confidence and

31:17like no like this is what's possible for you how do you think about that yeah that's an interesting food yeah that's interesting someone would say that you know it someone comes from I was a undersized skinny kid grown up so I was later later recruited not a high recruit um cut way better as I got older um but I could see in my own wire where I was going to go maybe no one else I don't think anybody else believed it but I kind of had a belief that I could grow and develop and get better so I think for me it's just my own personal experiences I can see hopefully a little bit where people might be able to become in hope no maybe that path maybe to help them get there a little bit with them to get on that journey with them so I'm always hopeful that we can see that where their future could be in five or six years but more importantly the steps that are necessary to take there um yeah that's like that's the thing I've been lucky been what this is

32:19what I point learned from the players the most is that like what that actually looks like how do you actually make those steps what what's that journey going to take and if they allow you with them like how fun like that's probably the thing I probably love more than this like help them that realize their goals individually and then obviously as the team coming together that's got to probably why I coach in general and being open to helping them um and most of these guys want to be helped so that's so fun to be in that process with great people like what else yeah when I know you're um you've been a part of turning around programs uh when the outcomes are you aren't getting outcomes you want I feel like a lot of coaches have a hard time with kind of managing expectations obviously with parents and youth sports yeah and you're investing in the process but they're not seeing quite the results yet what would you share to a coach that's kind of struggling with that

33:19yeah like uh control what you can control um and ask yourself a why you're doing this um first of all like especially in the youth level um you're here to help and I don't feel any different for me and I'm in the NBA I guess but like you're here to people grow and get better can you focus on the things that you're gonna make you can consistent winner you you're still teaching winning but it's really the the process and the details that go into that yes and you can have losing and that can happen but as quickly as you can get back to what really is gonna make you a consistent winner I think that's the biggest thing is like it's all the habits that you're doing every day so we I will talk about this when we have been on teams of 160 games I've been on teams that have been in rebuilding teams um I coached in college which was some rebuilding situations and it's always about the habits that you're building on a everyday basis we felt um and especially I've felt over the years

34:20can you just keep stacking in good days every day and then by the end you want to just be the best version or whatever team you're on that year or individually I think if you stick with those those are the things that can lead you to be successful in coaching or the players your teams but yes games can be frustrating all right um that's normal I mean that's competition you everybody wants to win um and that's not always going to happen right away all right so good um this feels like a leading question after that but you you've been you've been as yourself and also been around some like pretty impactful people yeah and I'm laughing because my brother was was a ABCO for like 15 years and oh wow he he doesn't like the word leadership he's just like I just mean it's so different and it's like this vague word but I'm I'm curious what the people that you have been around that have most stayed true to this process that have had

35:21a great impact either within their team or you know a city or or whatever the the whole league what are kind of some through lines there that stand out to you um yeah I think that can take shape in so many different forms like you got first of all I think you have to be authentic to who you are you know I can't coach like Greg Popovich you know I'm not him you know so I you know I've worked on some of these unbelievable coaches you got to be true to who you are um I think that's always the biggest thing for the coaching is like you got to be authentic you got to develop your own voice what you think that matters and I think leadership is just what you value your values right and the environment that you want to create with that and can you live to those standards yourself and being an example of that to yourself I think that this can take shape in so many different forms everybody always thinks of leadership as this you know person is commanding the room it's not always that person who's the best leader on your team as you know

36:21leadership can come in so many different forms and fashions it can be and to me it's the person who can show up every day and just be consistent with who they are and what they're about and that's what we talk about here is that everybody's a leader here with our team um and that's really about showing up every day and being the best version yourself and contributing to the culture we're trying to build I think those are the things that are most important to me so powerful do you guys do team stuff to like help them articulate what they value or is it more individual work or how would you go about that yeah we do team stuff we we're with the group and we'll ask them stuff that they think for sure we definitely do stuff individually in terms of their development programs and stuff like that so we do a little bit of mixture of all that um we think it's important to hear what they think you know yeah we're not playing I'm not playing anymore yeah that's a long time ago that these the ones are in the battle you know and like I said I have great respect for people who play like playing is really hard yeah

37:22so we better get what they think about this and what they're feeling because like I said we're trying to create something that's shared this is not no dictatorship here for sure yeah what what is something of anything that has changed the most in like the last five years of your coaching career oh that's a great question I don't know like obviously people go always the low-hanging fruit where the the technology and all the different I don't really buy into all that I think people still have the basic human needs that they want to feel valued they want to be heard they want to be seen um yeah I've been on a lot of younger teams oh in my career we have a younger guys I think people are the you know things are always changing things are always different but I always go back to the same thing it's like we're coaching human beings you know if I'm just coaching around ball that's probably not very fun like this is people how can we help connect with people how can we help learn about them can we help them grow can we invest in them

38:26so I I think those things are still the same they still hold true because I don't think those things are ever going to change I don't know I don't know how much change in like in like there's technical things that have changed within the sport and you know how the style of play is I mean that's we could go on for hours and that stuff that's you know that stuff always the changing and evolving so we're always studying those things right I think like the basic part of coaching and that stuff is to me soliciting love it maybe needed now more than ever you know yeah for human connection for sure uh you touched on these moments where like you help an athlete step into a vision of theirs and get to be a part of that with them is is there any other moments for you as a coach that you find the most joy or like you get most fired up at this point in your career by I think when you're when you're in a locker room and with your teammates and you know we're coaching with the coaching staff and me now and you see like what winning really looks like yeah um it's

39:33usually people really exhausted really tired we've put it all out there and they're just like they don't have much to say because it's like they left it all on the court um that's always like the best feeling to me when your teams can really be about that that they've left everything out they've exhausted and that doesn't have to equal a win always yeah um that they just gave everything they possibly have to the commitment to each other into the group and that group usually looks pretty tired after a game I mean I you know you know you're a career a little bit you've played in some high level games I'm sure after those games at the highest level you're just like I need to sit down for a second yeah and coaches like you know just me being around locker rooms my whole life it's like when you see guys are in women who are doing that that's pretty cool that's pretty fun yeah oh man that's so cool give me all the fields even thinking about those moments yeah and earned yeah earn moment for sure what uh I'm gonna two more questions for you

40:38if that works um what what do you hope most for every youth coach in the country like if every youth volleyball coach could kind of understand this pretty well what what would you hope that was um I think I said earlier but if if your kid would come back and want to play the next year really yeah I'm believable right like they you developed some joy and love of the game that this person wanted to come back and compete in that sport again um hopefully that you I think to me it always goes back to the relationships that you really dived into enough of a person in your group or your team or an individual that they came out at the end of the year a better version themselves and something that they could take forward to themselves some life skills probably outside of the sport I think that's probably the bigger thing for me is that you know hopefully without this teaching sport we're teaching stuff that's gonna happen in life hard work teamwork resiliency some of the things we talked about the beginning if your kids learn some of those skills during a year like that's what a home run and that they

41:43yeah enjoy about the sport that you're coaching that means you really have an imprint on them and that's what you know I think that's what we're all trying to do is like leave some type of little imprint in this person that they man that that was fun I enjoyed that I learned some good lessons along the way that I can take forward and hey I want to go try that again next year I mean yeah I'd be a heck of a year right yeah that's so cool uh lastly because you kind of answered the question I had wanted to ask you the same thing wrathies but I think you said it kind of that openness the joy of the game being willing to go forward and say I'm like yeah I can step into some more things yeah for sure um what how have you enjoyed volleyball so far is a volleyball dad what stands out to you in this in this sport uh first of all like I just have really enjoyed the coaching part of it um and I don't know a lot I mean I know sports in general but in watching my daughter play and they you know T-street's really an amazing club and

42:44oh man they got it dialed down there right Tanner and then all the coaches underneath him they did a great job of communicating coaching leading they put them in situations I watch because like I understand the ecological design all the learning environment stuff you and they put them in those type of situations to grow um they create a really fun environment but the thing that I think that it's really fun is uh what I've really learned about volleyball is that you cannot do it by yourself that you you have to do it with your teammates and you know you got to get three hits in and you got to work with your teammates I love I think the coaches teach communication and volleyball way better than we do so I'm always watching to see what they do to teach communication because the communication like you get the little mini huddles in between how much talking is going on yeah all coaches have hard time teaching communication I think volleyball coaches do it better than anybody I'm like so impressed when I'm there like that's cool I've never heard that before but again these six and seventh graders to talk and communicate and all the stuff that goes on it's like

43:48all right I can steal that I'm gonna take that with me for sure but it's such a team sport it's I love that you have to work with your team you cannot do this by yourself that you've got to rely on your teammates to make a pass to make a dig just now I got to set you to be able to hit and then watch the girls specifically like I love how they support each other they pick each other up the camaraderie they're building and they're you know they're learning and growing so there's lots of resiliency skills being taught in there too by the coaches volleyball has been you know my daughter's has been playing for two years but really enjoyed getting to those sports really cool sport that's so cool it is fun I do appreciate the time in between plays where there's a little pause we have that as an advantage and it's not quite as long as like tennis or something that feels a little more isolated but that's cool what you said about feedback you're your other daughter that is in ballet yeah what has that taught you or like if you're taking anything from watching her kind of

44:52explore that space because I mean I'm blown away at a time I see those guys yeah for sure this the the training she goes she says a great club herself I mean that club that's a studio I guess okay the teaching has been amazing um but the commitment of the athletes my daughter's really into it this the commitment level that it takes um the amount of practice that they do they're really like dynamic athletes that I've learned like they're probably the best athletes I've seen on any sport like they're just so dynamic with the things that they can do the explosiveness they have but it's the attention the detail the training level the commitment to it it's been impressive uh you know I love all environments where you can learn and you know I get to watch her too and watch her taught by her uh her teachers it's been a pride and pride for us so for sure that's so cool okay I do promise this is the last one sorry I have made time that's okay uh I really respect where you come from and how you approach this and what you stand for even at the

45:57highest level um how do you I also have a deep respect for coaches at every level because it's so gnarly and for the coaches that have a full-time job and go to their club practice and they're training almost every weekend going to tournaments how would you help uh coach understand recovery for themselves so that they can show up with fire and joy and space to listen yes I wish I could answer this one well I've probably I've gotten better at this one over the years but I can can't speak to this because I coached I coach club basketball I coached division two basketball um I've obviously coached in the NBA now but I have experienced a lot of those things I think anything you got to take a little time to carve out whatever it is great pop which always says how do you fill up you know fill up your cup that could be being with your family it could be an activity it could be reading could be meditating whatever that is for you you have to identify that but you're yeah look at is in a way about you're cheating your players if you're not doing that right

47:01like you're not if you're not in a place that you can bring the energy and bring the enthusiasm and then the commitment then you're just cheating what you're doing and now that's hard for club coaches and if people have different jobs I've experienced that myself when I was younger how do you balance all that um not always easy when you're trying to compete and win and all those things but if you don't carve out a little bit of time uh I admit I always had to do better at this myself because we can get consumed all of us with our stuff but you got to look at it from the other ones in my short changing my team or my my players by not doing that too that's what I try to remember it's a great helpful shift yeah for like that I also feel like if you're not messing it up you maybe aren't really pushing it you know like the healthy yeah if you always get that dial the thing all right that's right um is that when you think about your last game at the Wizards which is hopefully a long time from now if you want it to be and you step away from that what do

48:04how would you define success in that moment I just hope that there would be a group that was this committed to each other um committed to being the best version of self individually and then really the collective that they really invested each other that they really cared about each other that they created an environment that they felt good about and then when they were out in the court they created a product that that they can be proud of and what they stood for um if we can accomplish those things I think we're gonna have great success I would say that if I were coaching at any level it wouldn't just the Wizards um those are the things I always look for that's so cool I thank you I feel like I could talk to you all day and I uh yeah just really grateful you're I work with your sister Stephanie who is uh I will say one of my favorite humans I've ever gotten to work with and someone that also inspires me to be better so thank you obviously you guys are your family's pretty amazing and uh just so generous of you right before season to

49:05take the time so thank you thank you thank you thank you about my sister she is a rock star for sure we love her um so it's both supportive of my career and my family my wife and my kids and every my mom and dad so very lucky to have a great family who have supported me throughout my career um yeah I agree my sister's a rock star awesome well thanks for joining the day we'd really appreciate it thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you