Patriots Catch-22 10/1: Bills Preview, Injury Updates, Key Matchups

0:00This is the Patriots Catch 22 podcast with Evan Lazar and Alex Barth. Comment Lazar and Lazar and Lazar. Hello everybody, I'm Elden. Join us always by our star and camera. That's the best. No risk at doing this. 20th. Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barth. I just think Christian Ellis continues to be awesome. And I think it should be talked about more. As a blitzer, there was one play in particular though. He's great as a blitzer. Daphrur is screened, where he was the only guy on that side of the field. And he ended up avoiding the block and making the tackle for just a two yard game. That play had a long way to go if he doesn't make that tackle. And he somehow got off the block and made the play as really the only guy within like 20 yards of the screen. He's just been really good. We are coming in hot this morning. Yeah. Alex, you were early today.

1:01Not even on Tuesday. Not even on time. He was early. So we've already been bickering with each other for 45 minutes. So mostly about the Red Sox to be honest, which, you know, disappointing loss for them last night, obviously. And Alex very upset about that. But this is not a Red Sox show. We're going to talk Patriot. I could give you some good baseball Xs and O's today. Apparently. I mean, I just got, you know, lectured on pitching decisions in a nine nothing game. Anyways, the, um, we're going to talk Patriots. We're going to talk bills. And we're already fired up. So I can't wait to get to the bill segment of this, uh, a portion of this show. Well, here's what we're going to do. Since I, you just don't understand my take on all this. I, uh, before I give it take, I, because I, the last thing I want to do is offend the Josh Allen industrial complex. Good. So I am going to run my takes by you before I give them. Okay. So that way we make sure to Josh Allen approved show. All right. I, I want to, I have two opening takes.

2:02Well, well, two things I want to get to in the open. I guess is a better way to put this. We do have to talk a little bit about injuries. We got to first injury report of the week yesterday. First practice, um, you know, media access yesterday. I'll remind people that practice access this time of year is like 10, 15 minutes. Yeah. We got like 20 s, which was long. We don't watch the whole practice like we do in training camp. No stretching and just kind of the individual drills. Right. But we have a little bit of injury updates. And then I also have a take on the offense that I, I want to start with. Uh, but quickly on the injuries, uh, just get sort of this house keeping stuff. Uh, to the side. The, the three DNPs and then we'll get to the quarterback. Uh, Christian Gonzalez Morgan Moses, Christian Barmore, uh, a lot of shoulders. A lot of, a lot of people with shoulders. So Gonzalez and Barmore have the shoulder injuries that they suffered in the game on Sunday in Jacksonville. Morgan Moses is playing through a foot injury.

3:02Uh, do you have any concerns about any of those three guys playing in this game on Sunday? I know it's early in the week, relatively, but yeah, I mean, we know. We'll see the fact that Gonzalez finished the game came right back in and finished the game. I, I guess is encouraging. He's probably a player who can get a, uh, feels like maintenance. Yeah. I've had a rest day. They've given Barmore some maintenance days this year, but those have mostly been on Thursday. So that's a little different. Um, and then Morgan Moses looked like he was going through it last week. Yeah. He's getting up slow a lot, you know, when they try to, I think, go into, not necessarily hurry up and get up to the line. He was sometimes, you know, one of the last guys up there. So it'll be interesting to see where he's at. We'll see today, though. I mean, they've pretty much stuck to that rule. Even though some guys have come back and practiced on Friday. You don't practice Wednesday and Thursday. You don't play. Yeah. So today's really the big day for that group. Yeah. I have sort of, uh, you know, off piggybacking off of that Wednesdays with Mike Raible feel like if you were dinged up in the game, you kind of get a maintenance day on Wednesdays.

4:10That's how they've handled a lot of these guys in this regime over the last two years. So I'm, I'm never overly concerned about injuries like this until they're not out there on Thursday. So unfortunately, we're taping this before Thursday's practice. So I can't, we can't tell you if we're, if they're going to be out there on Thursday or not, but just as a rule of thumb. I would say if they're back out there on Thursday, then Wednesday is kind of serving as a maintenance day, extra rest day for some of the guys that got banged up in the game that are maybe, you know, hurt, but not injured, you know, or banged up, but don't have like structural damage to anything and have any serious injuries. Uh, the good news, uh, is that on the return side, Eli Raredin, Craig Woodson, Dreymon Jones, all at practice today. I actually thought that the edges played pretty well and that came on Sunday and weren't the problem. But still getting Dreymon Jones back is, is important and the rotation is important and having three guys that you feel like you can play versus two is important.

5:15Uh, but I think more importantly, not to take anything away from Dreymon Jones is Eli Raredin and Craig Woodson, uh, being back at practice and hopefully playing in this game on Sunday. I, I think would be huge for them. Yeah, it would especially Raredin, like just getting more out of the tight ends, kind of stressing the bills defense a little bit. For example, mentioned what he brought as a blocker as well. Blocking, blocking, blocking. Yeah, so hopefully those guys are, are on the right track. All right, the last one, uh, we got to mention the quarterback, uh, Drake May on the injury report as a full participant in Wednesday's practice with a right shoulder injury. So, uh, just off the top, I, I don't know anything. I have no inside information based off of what's being reported out there though. It does sound like most people are being told that this isn't a major cause for concern. Yeah. Uh, now it's never great to see the quarterback on the injury report ever. I was the weeks in a roast Tom Brady on there with how it's just about to say that. I think that this though, this injury in particular, a right shoulder injury to a right handed quarterback, uh, is not out of the realm of like normalcy.

6:22Like for, like they throw a lot, they throw a lot, right. They get hit maintenance. They throw a lot and they get hit. Uh, so receiving treatment, uh, you know, being on an injury report as a full participant with a little bit of a shoulder soreness or shoulder pain. Whatever you want to call it, uh, I think it was like 10 years that Brady was on the injury report with right shoulder soreness. So, uh, I don't think that it's anything to sound any alarms about based off of what everybody is reported and saying about this. But it, you know, we're doing the news and he's on the injury report. So it is what it is. Yeah. It's obviously a little more notable because he's coming off of that injury last week. Mike Vrable was asked about it on Monday last year. You mean last year? Yeah. Um, Mike Vrable was asked about it on Monday, said that he didn't expect any, you know, issues from it. You know, I, I think it's for all we know it could have happened last week, right. It could be unrelated. I don't know that for sure. Right. Um, he did take some hits in that game certainly.

7:22Yeah. But, you know, I think after what happened last year and then just him struggling to start season. If he was playing fine in this happen, you just, I mean, I'm not saying it would be nothing, but it would be like, all right. You know, season's underway. Some bumps and bruises. He's a limited participant. That's another story. But yeah, I mean, we'll see. It's been kind of weird with it. They've downplayed it. May downplayed it. I know he kind of talked around it a little bit on Sunday. When he got asked about it, he got asked directly, yes or no. Yes, today instead of wasn't impacting the way he was struggling about or his decision making, which has been the bigger issue. So, but it's, I mean, it's something to watch. Quarterbacks on the injury report and something to watch. Like you said, it's not totally unheard of for God. It just beyond there because it's getting maintenance on his shoulder because he's throwing, you know, how many throws is a quarterback making practice times three days a week plus the game. Right. Plus he's taking hits like you got to, yeah, you got to get that looked at. It's maybe a little bit different because he does run. And so he maybe is a little bit more affected to hits and like a Tom Brady was in his career. But and it doesn't take him to hit really on a run this year.

8:22Has he? I think it's done a better. No, but he's still getting hit and getting taken to the ground and stuff like that. I would just say going back to Brady for a second and I mentioned this the other day, I was scrolling the other night and I came across a video of Tom Brady talking on a panel somewhere. It was a year. It's old. Like it's not a new video. And he was asked like when did you become a robot? Like when did you become obsessed with your body and TB 12 and all that kind of stuff? And he said that right around like the mid 2000s, like 2005, 2006. Let's call it somewhere around there. He started to have a lot of right shoulder fatigue and right shoulder pain. And one of the things that he mentioned along with his diet and his exercise regimen changing and Alex Guerrero and all that stuff was his mechanics was his throwing mechanics and like again, I don't know that any of this is an issue for Drake May.

9:29I'm just saying just from experience, you know, watching Brady and listening to Brady. One of the things that with throwing mechanics that's important is like the mechanical chain. Right? So it starts with your feet and it usually goes like your hips and torso, then your shoulders and then your arm and like really sound mechanically sound quarterbacks. They don't put all the stress on their arm to throw the ball. They spread out the stress and throughout their body. And sometimes when you are a quarterback, that's throwing a lot with your arm and your arm is doing a lot of a heavy lifting. That's when your arm can start to get a little bit sore and wonky. So I think that these are all things that as a young player, Drake May probably isn't overly concerned about. But with Brady, it didn't happen until he was probably in his late 20s that had started to be an issue.

10:29Right. And that's when you start to make adjustments and maybe hone in a little bit more. So that's something that I'm looking for moving forward in general just from an offense standpoint. Is that you'd want to see Drake May's footwork and his mechanics be a little bit cleaner. I never expect him to be Tom Brady. Right. But I think that that's a starting point. Let's talk about the offense. I have a take because I think there's a lot of questions, a lot of. We're all trying to solve this problem and we have zero say in it, but. We're all trying to solve it anyway. And you know, what are your ideas for waking this offense up and fixing this offense and fixing Drake May. I think it's a big subject to conversation that's kind of catch 22 related. Yeah. And one of the things that that dawned on me when I was preparing for the bills, what looking at their offense is just the splits between the patriots and the bills as an under center operation.

11:34And I know you don't believe me, but I want the patriots to play from under center. I do like the guys that I really think are great at play calling and add play design like Kyle Shanahan and Ben Johnson and those guys. They're all under center heavy offenses. All their offenses rank near the top of the league and under center rate. So before I get into this whole take, like I don't want them to be a shotgun heavy offense necessarily. But I think we're getting into the point of the season. Now three games in about to be four games in where you're starting to get a lot of data. And like the sample size is starting to emerge where you kind of understand what the team is good at and what the team isn't good at. About I would say around like Halloween, right? So we're not quite there, but we're getting there, you know, faster than maybe it appears. The patriots right now are ninth in the league and under center rate. So they have the ninth highest under center percentage.

12:35So they're top 10 team. This is a big part of what they want to do. Do you know what they were last year? They are top 10 as well. Okay. They want to play from under center. Like they want to be an under center football team. However, as of right now, and it's only three games, but as of right now, they are 31st in the league in EPA per play from under center. They are also dead last 30 second in the league in yards per play from under center. If you're not, you don't want to use the math that you can use just pure yards per play. They're only averaging 3.4 yards per play from under center right now. That's a last in the NFL. So as much as I understand that they want that to be a big part of their identity, and I think it should be, you know, holistically, you get into the season. And I think you start to figure out, all right, like what is this personnel good at? Like what, what is this team good at? What is this offense capable of doing? And even though the numbers from the shotgun are not amazing because of the turnovers, they're not great. They're still instead of 31st in EPA per play from under center, they're 18th in shotgun.

13:40Right. And they're actually 5th in yards per play from shotgun. So again, small sample size, but I think that when you look at them right now, I don't hate the idea for now of finding ways to operate more from shotgun and be a little bit more of a spread oriented football team. And I think it relates to the running game. You know, like, can you spread defenses out instead of trying to put multiple tight ends on the field or a sixth offensive lineman or a full back and trying to just run down hill at teams. Can you spread teams out a little bit more light and boxes, get them into, you know, a coverage personnel, whether it's nickel dime personnel, whatever the case may be. Maybe incorporate a few more RPOs here and there as well and try to run the ball that way because clearly running the ball from under center is not working. You know, so I don't want to ditch under center completely because I believe in it as like an identity thing.

14:42But I do think that just looking at it from a data perspective and also just watching it that right now there does not very good at it. And if you're not good at something, then you probably shouldn't do it as much as you're doing it. Yeah, and I think spreading things out will just help make things easier for Drake, made to make defense declare a little more. He can kind of get a better idea of what he's looking at. So I do think there's something to that going out of shotgun letting see letting Drake may see the whole picture. Now, I don't think it's a permanent fix. I think it's something that, you know, in the off season, you need to work on because I think you need to be able to do both to really be a high level offense in the NFL. But yeah, I think more shotgun spreading things out more and especially like they're not getting time to help from a Gileum right now. Yeah, so that downhill run game. The line can't get that initial push just forcing the defense to play a little thinner would probably help. I just feel like they were starting to see more and more that like just being an offense that just gets on double teams and moves the people at the line of scrimmage and like can really just kind of power up.

15:47And just out muscle and out kind of wheel teams that way. I just don't think that that's what their personnel is best at right now. Right. So I think that there's ways from shotgun to really start to get creative with different formations and different motions and different schemes like RPO's and things like that quarterback runs. You know, at this point, they got to find ways to move the ball and put points on the board. Right. So I'm not the huge fan at either of running Drake may a ton and maybe a lot of those runs or option runs where he doesn't actually run a ton. You know, like it's just a threat of him running or maybe it's an RPO or there's a screen attached to it or a slant flat or a curl flat attached to it that has a routes being run on the outside. But I just think in general that's probably where they're better at right now. And the yards per play number in shotgun. I think kind of tells the story of they can move the ball and they can hit explosive plays.

16:48You know, another stat that that they're down here, the bottom the league in from under centers, explosive play rate. Yeah. And I think that, you know, some of the things that you're seeing schematically from teams when they're under center. First of all, like up front, they're, they're blitzed, they're run blitzing them a lot and they're stunting inside Jacksonville stunted inside a lot against them. And they're kind of blowing up their in seer interior runs by, you know, either stunting or slanting or penetrating to the inside. The other thing that teams are doing more and more of just generally speaking, not just to Drake may is they're changing the picture on play action. So when he turns around and puts his back to the, to the defense on play action, he think he's looking at one thing pre snap. It's a single high shell pre snap. And then when he turns back around to throw the football now, all of a sudden they're in a two high knee difference. Yeah. And so I wonder how much of that is also holding up, you know, the, the fumble or the ball just slipped out of his hand. That's one of those looks where he's under center.

17:48He turns around to play action pass. He looks down the field and all of a sudden now, oh, I thought that this was post safety, you know, single high safety. And they're actually in quarters. They're actually in two high safety. This is not what I was expecting to get. And maybe that moments of hesitation and that sort of indecisiveness is stemming from that. So again, I am with you. I don't think that that's a consistent way to live in shotgun all the time. Like I don't think that I don't want to call it gimmicky, but I don't think that it's like a great way to be. Especially when it gets to December and January and the weather starts being a factor in all those types of things. But right now they got to find ways to put points on the board and they got to find ways to win some football games. And so I think at this point in the season, leaning heavier into that, you know, I think it's really the way to go. I don't, I know on Tuesday, I was talking a lot about motions and like things like that. And that I think is a big part of the under center stuff.

18:49With all that type of stuff, though, I'll give Taylor Kyle's his flowers on this because he keeps reminding me of this. You can't just all the sudden be a Kyle Shanahan offense overnight. Like the motions and the things that they installed, they've been running those things since the spring. They install those things in OTA. So you can't just all of a sudden be this like exotic window dressing offense overnight. So if that's not necessarily part of their, they're installed. That's not like a big part of their playbook. Now I still think they could do it more. And I'll push back on that. Like I still think that that could be a bigger thing that they do. But if that isn't something that they feel like they major in, like they can't just all of a sudden snap a finger and be a big part of what they do. Then I think spreading defenses out, going shotgun in trying to run the ball that way is maybe a better answer to what they're doing. The other thing just quickly on the run game, then we'll talk about the bills. Travion Henderson last year was 49% of his runs were to the outside.

19:55That number has decreased this year by over 10%. Only 37% of his runs through through two games. Yeah. I played two games. I had been to the outside. So like all of these things are, I think factors in all of this. So when you look at the bill's defense, some of the things that they've struggled with on tape. Outside runs, you know, crack tosses, you know, toss the ball outside and RPO runs. And you know, because they they'll match spread formation usually in a two high safety shell. And you can usually run the ball against that a little bit more effectively. So this seems like a week where it kind of lines up with the bills weaknesses as well to maybe try to get the ball outside a little bit more and try to run the ball out of shotgun a little bit more. Let's set the stage for the bills though. I was just a little anecdote on the bills, but I need to get your temperature check on the bills right now. Yeah. Because we disagree on the bills every year. Yeah. But I think, uh, best debates of the show ongoing running debates.

21:00Uh, so where is Alex Barth on the three and a Joe Brady Buffalo bills right now? They've looked good. I'd like to see him. I guess I shouldn't say face a little diversity. The Houston game they did and they they came out good at the end. Like they they look like the bills. They looked the same as they did. I know defensively. They're different schematically, but like they look the same as they did under Sean McDermott. It's a good start. Uh, they play the Rams in a couple weeks. That'll be interesting. So yeah, I don't know. I don't think they look any noticeably better noticeably worse. They kind of look the same. They went to two and that's I don't mean that as a knock. They look they've been a good team. They still look like good team. The turnovers may be catching up, starting to catch up with them a little bit more. They had none the first two weeks. So they had a few chances. They had five last week, including three from Allen. So we'll see if that was kind of regression of the mean. If it's a sign of things to come because that's always like. The bills live in dying on turnovers. That's just what they are. They are what their quarter vac is.

22:00When he and they don't turn the ball over, they're very hard to beat because they play a very explosive style that comes with risk. And when they mitigate the risk, it's all explosiveness. When those risks come back to bite them, I don't think they necessarily maybe more now with James Cook have the patience and the sustainability to battle through it. So let's see the turnover started catch up to them last week. The chargers are asked. I'll tell you a team. I have changed my opinion on I thought the chargers were going to be okay. Chargers might suck. I don't know. Do you feel differently? I know. I don't feel differently. And I don't even mean this to knock the bills like they've just played some very uninspiring football. I have always felt and I thought watching Justin Herbert last week. He had some Drake may turnovers in that game. One of them didn't count. There was a penalty on it, but it was a bad play. Maybe he saw the flag and just threw it up. I don't know. If that's the one you're talking about, I think they were talking about this on the broadcast that he thought he had a free play and he didn't. So he threw a ball directly to the post safety on one of the interceptions.

23:02I think the one that did count. And then he threw another one that he kind of just like threw up in the end zone, sort of like the Travis Hunter interception on Sunday. And so that was kind of odd. I just never really got the gym harbock shine when they hired me dead hire. And like they kind of thought that that was going to make them this like tougher football team. I just never really bought it. And so I'm not all that surprise that the chargers are still charging. Like they look good. They have good players. They have, you know, if you're building like a madden roster or a fantasy roster. Like it's not a bad team. Right. But it's never like tangible. But back to the bills. So you're ready to admit the bills are pretty good. I never said they weren't good. You kind of did. I never said they weren't good. I thought they're going to have some aggression this year. And then three and a lot of season left. So you think the regression could still come. You're not ready to give up on the play.

24:02Turn the ball over five times. You're so take corner that you're not ready to admit that they are not in a high regression. I said they'd probably thought they'd win less games next this year than they did last year. They won't have what 11 last year. They're not going to win less games. We'll see. So they do. I mean, there's a lot of season left. He is. He does have a good point. Well, this is, I mean, this is talk radio 101. Like he's not wrong yet. So you don't admit that you're wrong until you're wrong. Well, they went from no turnovers to no turnovers to five. So let's see how that goes. I am impressed that Alan isn't even on the injury report. Like that was a big shot. He took to his knee last week. So that's what we're giving up and sorry, I was supposed to run these by you. I meant more in the idea of the Patriot spills game. I do. Okay. I think that's the best that I'm going to get out of them. So is that not an accurate assessment of where they are like. They're playing well. The turnovers crack back in last week. And I guess defensively, wait, they turned the ball over five times last week and still won the game pretty comfortably.

25:03We agreed the Chargers are very good. Okay, but like even if we think the Chargers are very good, they put 36 points up on the Texans, which is really impressive. And in that Lions game, I mean, he was, he was the player of the week coming off of the Lions game. He was excellent in that game. I think the biggest thing that I'm seeing with Alan that really just kind of like shows his maturation as a player has the Texas defense regressed. See, so now the Texas defense regressed the Chargers are an action. Yes, the Chargers aren't actually good. 19th and points against this year for three weeks. Going now. I mean, how many, how many points? 19th and points against. Okay. All right. The, I think Alan right now, and some of it is irrational confidence at times, and I'll give you that. But Alan right now is seeing the field exceptionally well. Like he, I really feel like he's getting to that point where he's starting to really not only just be able to make the big plays,

26:03but also process the game. His manipulation of coverage, like his, he's got a great pump fake now to like move zone defenders and come back to things in the middle of the field. He made a, he threw a touchdown to Josh Palmer against the Lions. And I didn't get a chance to like sneak it into anything because it just didn't fit. But he threw a touchdown pass to Josh Palmer against the Lions. And I know it was a coverage bus. But if you go back and you watch that throw. Watch how early Alan throws that ball. Like he is just seeing it really cleanly right now, like really quickly. Like as soon as he sees that the safety on that side of the field is attaching to the, the deep post and isn't going to carry the seam. The ball is already, he's already into his throw emotion. The ball is already out of his hand. Like when we talk about these things with Drake May in terms of like trust and anticipation and like feel and that kind of stuff. Like did Alan's doing all those types of things now. He still has some wonky turnovers like he did last week.

27:05That I told you I texted you earlier that I thought they didn't play well last week. Obviously didn't he turned it all over three times. But I think that that's really what I'm seeing with him as a pastor. That's really impressive. Now, you know, just talking a little bit about the bills offense. I think the bills offense has really kind of reinvented itself over the last couple of years. They are like a bully ball offense. So this is what I the first thing I want to ask you am I allowed to say that I am especially in this matchup. Much more concerned about the bills run game than past game. Yeah, I think that to me that's not offensive to Josh Allen. So I think the best way I can describe it is that Josh Allen's the head of the snake. But I think James Cook is like the engine of the offense. You know, I think those are two different things. Like I think Josh Allen is probably opening up a lot of the things that James Cook is getting because teams are worried about the deep ball and his ability to run and all those different things.

28:06So I'm sure that that softens the box a little bit for James Cook. But their run game like basically multiple years in a row now is one of the best in the league. Through three weeks there are number one in EPA number one in success rate. They are the best run offense in football through three weeks. They play from under center at the third highest rate in the league. They play with multiple tight ends at the highest rate in the league. Nobody plays more multiple tight ends and sense them buffalo. But because they do use can Kate can Kate is not yeah, can Kate is a receiver. And I want to get to can Kate in a second. But they they have kind of reinvented to themselves in this way. And I think that you know your point about turnovers and it didn't work last week. Fully but I think that's where it stems from a little bit is that they just decided that we are just going to drop back a little bit less. So that the volume doesn't present as many turnover opportunities when we have those turnover worthy plays. But we're still going to be ultra efficient because the run game is going to be good.

29:07And Alan on the move is just dynamic you know and they boot the quarter back out like he's just a problem. And they do that at a very high rate as well. So I am with you. I think the best part about the bills offense right now and it's all goes hand in hand like out and obviously has an impact in this sense as well. But the best part about the bills offense right now is putting the quarterback under center running the football James Cook and then scripting plays in the play action passing game off of the James Cook runs. It you can get boat raced by Buffalo right now right in that phase without them throwing the ball. But pretty or with them throwing the ball on design play actions where it's like very scripted right which I think helps with the turnover. Yeah they play very safe brand of football right and it helps Alan and he's still so explosive that they can still generate the big plays even if they're kind of being a little bit more conservative scheme at a good James Cook in generally big place to I mean his ability to he is cuts and like everybody is at the point of attack his ability to redirect when the holes not there.

30:12He's like four or five times a game with him just they try to run up the middle the holes not there it's one cut to the outside and now he's on the edge and you talked about this on Tuesday. It's something we're seeing teams due to the Patriots defensively when that you know you see the inside run on those edge guys start to suck in a little bit. Yep. And now suddenly cooks gone from the A gap to outside the tackle like that and he's got a runway and he's gone so he's smooth man. He's really smooth might be their best offensive player. Of course of course you would say that he's really smooth he's definitely their best skill player no doubt about that they have a really good offensive line to. You know in terms of trying to defend them I would say. You have to stop the run you have to stop the have to stop the run and if you don't do that nothing else is going to happen so in order to stop the run though and this Patriots team has struggled to stop the run and say like definitely last week I would say and even a little bit I would say in the opener that at times they struggled to stop the run I mean. Like Pittsburgh has an okay rush offense statistically but I'm not really afraid of anything with Pittsburgh's offense.

31:15In terms of stopping the run. I do think that this is a game where I would expect or hope to see the Patriots play like 50% man coverage in this game because if you're going to try to stop the run. Then you need to get as many hats in the boxes you possibly can and I think the worst thing that you can do is play a lot of zone and then have all those linebackers or your second level players now they're in conflict all the time because they have zone responsibilities in the past game and they have a run responsibilities in the fits and so now when they play action it's like you're you're spinning and that's I think what was happening a little bit to the lions is like their head started to spin and it was like what are we in my dropping am I in my covering my my zone or am I playing to run here and the bills just had them in a blender like they just didn't know what was coming. So the the two kind of issues like I would play a lot of man now the two issues that that presents are Josh Allen him running in extending plays is a is a concern and then you mentioned Dalton can cade like I think DJ more

32:24Kaleo Shakira Keon Coleman I will take Christian Gonzalez Marcus Jones and Carlton Davis all day against those three receivers like I think they can win those matchups across the board. The issue that I would have is how are you going to contain Allen in the pocket and prevent him from scrambling all over you if you're in man to man coverage and how do you cover concade right you know are you bracketing concade are you double teaming him are you thinking and we bring this up all the time I feel like it never happens but are you thinking about putting one of the corners on him. You know I mean in theory this is where a player like Jalen Reed would be huge now we'll see if he's up for it. Yeah they've kind of eased him into the offense but in either of those roles either spying Allen or right he's kind of here to be remember we thought there's going to be martyne bopful for a few years like he's kind of here in that role whether it's spying Allen or covering concade. You know somebody like him Christian else has been playing well maybe he goes there I would not I think Carlton Davis on concade would not be a bad matchup if you want to go that route I think that could make sense.

33:25Concade is a dynamic receiver he's number one league right now in yards by tight ends you receiving yards by tight ends because he's a wild receiver he's explosive he's good up the scene but he's also good you know at the top of the route and you can get open at the top of the route as well on like angles and slants and things like that. He's an impressive player he's had an impressive start to the season and that would be the matchup that would worry me the most other than Alan killing you with his legs if you're going to play that much man I like the idea of Ellis as a spy yeah and Alice Alice will punish you to a few run right so you know I think that that's something that we've seen before. You know I think that the other concern or issue that you have with Josh Allen is like if you have a DB spying he's bigger than the defensive back it has to be aligned backer safety and I don't think splines got the foot speed. No it has to be Ellis or reads a bigger defensive back yeah read my big I mean you're not going to have somebody who's 240 spying Alan like that's just not real but he is 240 that's what I'm saying. So like you're not going to get somebody who's actually have biggest Ellis L is 240 might be up there to 2 30 yeah okay he's and he hits yeah no he'll yeah just have him do what he did against Jackson dark last year obviously will be as easy but maybe like don't you know down was like borderline it was so much like

34:40it was it was just how he played in that game silent yeah no he he's you know what this kills me all time told you this or let me say from him am I allowed to give my take about teams respecting Josh Allen too much. Listen this is your this is no I don't want to because I just a failed I bills week and I feel like you're holding back very powerful it's a very powerful lobby the Josh Allen industrial complex I don't want to run a foul of it. Yeah you better not so I want to make sure of like because you see it where I don't know if it's because he's so big and guys don't want to do with the contact or they're worried about the the the QB call flag the superstar QB flag I um it was either 21 or 22 the game here I think it was Mac Wilson they had Alan pin to the sideline yeah but nobody actually pushed him out of bounds yeah they just kind of got next to him yeah right like you have to finish. I have to finish plays against Josh Allen and I don't want this come across as in the knowledge reality like obviously don't take cheap shots you don't commit penalties but like yeah there might be a superstar flag you have to finish the play you have to finish the play he is going to finish the play he is going to play to the whistle you have to as well and so it's not as simple as well just kind of guide him I know the sidelines never missed a tackle but it's not as simple it's just kind of guide him out of bounds like you have to make sure he gets out of bounds.

36:03Because as long as he has a blade of grass between the green and the white he's still threat to make a play so like I know I get what you're saying about Ellis and that play on Jackson Dart but like him among all quarterbacks you have to take that risk and I will say the NFL is kind of pulled back a little bit there was one in Monday night football where Jalen hurt Scott hit maybe like a hair late yeah and they talked about it on the broadcast were like well you know when they didn't get when they gave the quarterbacks that call you really couldn't force Matt about some of the and they were just getting extra yard so like and I this is I can home is a king homes is amazing at the like tiptoes dad and you know sometimes people take it as a knock like well you see it off these guys are smart they the court these quarterbacks know exactly where the line is and if you don't go right to that line they will yeah and so I don't get it because it's I know what people are going to take it and Alan lowers the shoulder he does I don't mean this as take cheap shots at all right it's just he's going to play to the whistle trying to be so careful I just want to know I as a whole I don't want to be somebody who's accused of saying players

37:07to keep shots because they shouldn't especially after it happened I'm just in that organ USC game I don't know if you saw that yet I don't do that but you have to play to the whistle against him in teams don't they respect him I don't know what it is with they can't in my homes especially maybe it's just the calls they get but it'll it'll burn you like you might get a 15 yard penalty or he might throw a touchdown like you just you have I mean he's thrown so many touchdowns crazy throws out of structure against the Patriots over the last six years where he is right up against the sideline and he'll throw it back into the end zone across his body like he has no problem doing that the Lions picked one off on the flag on the play the only other thing I was going to add then we have to take a quick break is when he throws you the ball catch it you have to I know that sounds so no remember that there's so many of the the JC Jackson one here a couple years ago yeah last it or in the opener against Houston like I know it sounds crazy when he puts the ball in the ground go get it when he

38:08throw he will throw you one or two will please you have to get you he's not going to when he gives you the chances you have to take him yeah the Lions had a not goal sky extra chances a goal I like to say that because I said that after the Houston game people got mad at me so he they I the one that that I think like the Houston one obviously was a huge play in the game and a huge time in the game for that to happen yeah but the lion he threw one back into the end zone against the Lions is the exact play that you're talking about where he was running up against the sidelining through back into the middle of the field it got tipped in the defensive lineman actually caught the tip and intercepted the pass and the Texans got called for like an illegal con or the Lions call for like a legal contact or something and it wiped out the penalty and they just Buffalo just scored on the very next play and like those are the types of things that you just you can't you don't have that room for error on defense when he throws you want to he will throw you in one maybe two you have to catch it all right let's take a quick break and I want to talk a little bit about the the bills defense and we'll do key matchups all time we'll do that business dinners like a summer I soared it's a classic corporate power move but the real power move having

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41:28draft kings is all about responsible game it's more fun when it's for fun so play responsibly draft kings the crowd is yours gambling probably call 1 800 gambler 21 plus age and eligibility jurisdiction all right the last 15 minutes here I want to talk about a little bit more about the bills defense because we've been very often heavy for good reason on both sides uh you know both teams here uh quickly on the bills scheme and then I have a couple key matchups that are on the defense aside of the ball to did they change their scheme it's it's a completely different defense they're running with 3 4 defense now uh shot McDermott for a decade and Buffalo we're in a 425 nickel with a 4 3 over front where they had four guys down on the line of scrimmage and they played a lot of zone coverage a lot

42:28of match zones a lot of cover 2 that was the defense that he played in Carolina that was the defense that he brought when he became the bail bills head coach and now you know Jim Leonard is running a odd front 3 14 that is playing with five guys on the line a lot and it has really unlocked Greg Russo in particular which will get you a little bit more but I think that there's some opportunities to throw the ball on this team now they've been very good out of two high safety shells they have not been as good against single high safety shells so for the third consecutive week I'll say it again you've got to run them out of the two high shells over and over again I feel like a broken record on that one but I think it's another one of those weeks as you know he's said way to key matchups Alex where this all starts up front like can the hatreds offensive line handle what has become a really really good Buffalo bills defensive front led by one of your guys Dion Walker Dion watch stud absolute stud at unicorn player is playing

43:33up to every bit of it and then they also have had Oliver in the middle two who's a good player which I mean that's a key matchup right there whoever is it right guard Jared Wilson in a Liza Aratucker against those guys and I think just to kind of go back to where we're talking about the top of the show how the Patriots can address their adjust their run game they've mostly tried to be between the tackles you have to get the ball to the outside in this game. You're just not running on Dion Walker and at all over with any sort of regularity you're not going to no I especially not Walker I agree and it's like watching Buffalo on tape this week you know a lot of good plays out of like crack tosses and counters they're still right against the run they're not there this is kind of a weakness on weakness right the bills right now are 23rd and 27th and EPA and success rate against the run so they're they're bottom ten in the league in both metrics do you know the split inside the tackles now outside the tackles I don't have to talk to my head but they the Patriots are obviously bottom the league and a lot of run statistics right now so this is a

44:35kind of who can strengthen a weakness better in this game can the Patriots find a running game can the bills find a run defense even though they've changed their scheme they've changed their coaching staff they the bills have not been able to stop the run in a couple of years now it's been an issue for them for a while everyone I think thought in a lot of ways that it was a McDermott schematic thing because they were playing the way that they were playing and the structure and also Billy Bean thing also the scheme I I don't know you know I don't know what it is like you look at Dion Walker and Gregory so these guys are are a donnances they're huge dudes like you would think they would be able to to stop the run you know in the old scheme they played so much zone coverage that their linebackers were a little bit more finesse like Mammalanos and Trimmane menses and stuff like that so I think a lot of it was chalked up to that at all over is a smaller guy he's a great player don't get me wrong but he's not like a block eater or like a space eater he's a he's a past pressure I want and a guy that wants to get up the field so can the

45:39Patriots find a run game against Buffalo to bills of actually they've allowed 4.9 yards per carry I'll give you the EPA plus 0.17 inside the tackles outside the tackles they've actually been a lot better interesting that's not what I would say anecdotally it looks like on tape no no so I maybe we look deeper into maybe there's one place it's still early in the season yeah one place you on that so even still I would say like watching Jumbeer Gibbs run against them a couple weeks ago a lot of those runs are like pointed outside the tackles and then it's being cut back into the middle of the field so I think that's maybe where the numbers are being a little bit skewed from because Gibbs did hit some right up the middle but they were on plays that he was aimed outside and cut it back through the middle of the field but that that's really the key to the game to me and it will be until they stop you know until they're able to run the ball a bit more

46:43consistently as you know can they get last year they face two high safeties 38% rate the patriots this year they're facing it at a 51% rate yeah and so everybody's asking like where is what's wrong with Drake May where is the deep balls where is the down field you know go balls on the outside the numbers they're taking it away that's what it is like if you don't get single high safety and you don't get man to man a lot like you're not going to be taking deep shots to you know number one receivers outside the numbers when they're clouding the deep part of the field like it's not there I mean I hate to be broken record but you have to earn those plays yeah in the only way you get them and it's something that Josh Allen did that turned his career around him and my homes I was in my homes and a number of other guys yep and some of the guys that have a lot of talent but aren't as good haven't earned that you have to hit the underneath stuff you have to run the ball you have to hit your check downs you have to create after the catch you have to give

47:46defenses reasons to be more concerned about the short intermediate parts of the field until you do that they're going to take away the deep stuff all day and dare you to go on the 12 play drive because most quarterbacks most offenses in the modern NFL cannot do it and the and the quarterback skin patient which is what they can't do it yet no they have the talent to do it but this generation of quarterbacks wants their highlights that's what they want they want they want they want there not solve them okay they nice and you went there that they want that it's a generational thing I think so you think so to these quarterbacks approach the sit game the same way is Brady Manning uh you know maybe Breeze is an exception here no I don't think so but I think that Rogers say the difference though and this is like a big conversation offense is not quarterbacks this is a bigger conversation that we probably don't have time for right now uh but I think the the difference is is like Brady Manning Breeze those guys had to play that way they weren't physically gifted enough

48:50to play a different way like they couldn't play out of strength and they couldn't run around but it's not just that you can hunt big plays from in the pocket I but I'm but they couldn't play they didn't have the the physical talent that that Josh Allen I'm not talking about the Patrick running around and all that but I'm but it just in general like just talking about the emphasize the emphasis of staying on schedule taking what the defense gives you like that whole thing I think that that stems from the fact that those players to succeed they needed to win up here and they needed to win that way like Brady I think would have said that numerous times that like his superpower was his brain I think that these younger quarterbacks and I think this is sort of just where quarterbacking is gone for better or worse their superpowers are their physical gifts like so they they're winning in different ways but it's not but Brady and I'm not necessarily saying that that's better or worse I'm just saying that that's what it is I think it makes a lot harder forget the but the physical gifts aside like Brady couldn't go out there and hunt explosive

49:53plays when he was given a chance it didn't necessarily look the same but he could go out there and say I'm going to throw the deep ball day to day I'm not going to worry about what's underneath I want to go over the top and he still had the ability to do that yeah but he but he had to he had to win the game between the years he knew that he had to he had to master the game like that Peyton Manning had to master the game like I have a Roger you can't sit on he did he played like this at a younger age like this is like the way that all these kids are playing these days and I have to say kids I like I'm like some old man but the way that all the they they're all playing these days Roger's probably one of the first ones in this generation to start doing the focusing too much on the athleticism it's not just me at the day maybe the day should have been offensive offensive coordinators not just the quarterbacks what teams value has changed right it used to be sustained drives time with possession ball control if you got it all in a chunk great if you're saying that the emphasis on explosive plays has changed the way quarterbacks are approaching playing

50:56the game and that has changed the way defense is approach quarterbacks yes yeah I think there's some defense is no the offenses are going to come in we need to hit X explosive plays to win this game right so let's just take let's sell out to take those away let's take those away no matter what and if they go down the field with 15 four yard plays so be it because we don't think they'll do that the the impatience with the quarterbacks I'm talking about because that's how they're coached and I'm not talking about this isn't an anti shanty anything this goes back to like high school this is just how it's coach I don't think that shanty hand does any of that no this is how it's coach no no like I just you it's it's hunting the big play I just wonder if this is like a chicken or the egg thing like I think that these quarterbacks are relying more on their physical games no because the quarterbacks they were your top it's it's it's you got to ignore the physical part of it but that's what it is but it's not they're good at like they're good at being athletes and they're good at throwing the ball down the field and they're good at running and but Brady and Breese were good at throwing

52:01the ball down the field too they were accurate throwing the ball down the field they didn't have arms like these guys they had big or they had they had good they had good trees didn't have a big arm no Breese did not have a big arm Brady like that I'm not saying that they had like like pea shooters is what is what is valued like it's not about the the defenses want the quarterbacks to run because it means they're not giving up the 60 yard completion I just think that the athleticism is not your you're missing the point good I think that this is like it's a skill set thing like these quarterbacks are good at certain things Brady Manning Breese were good at other things like the mentality is also different yeah because they're playing to their strengths like if you want Drake made a sit there you and just all of a sudden start picking apart defenses and dissecting defenses like he's Tom Brady then honestly like that might be what why we're in where we're at like with him but I think picking apart the defense and dissecting the defense is different than

53:04taking the check down when they're playing for deep but I think that's the same one of the same thing it's it's thinking the game it's thinking it through it's it's processing the game it's not it's the approach it's not the in-play processing it's the approach it's so you but but so you just think that they just are saying you know how I shut it down there was there was that that's what they want to do that's what the offense is want to do I think that's what the quarterbacks want to do because that's how the coach and I think that's what they're good at here's the evidence that it's a change in philosophy because before the Fangeo quarter stuff came in vogat the end of the Brady Manning Breeze Roger's era those guys were letting it rip those guys were doing this and then the defenses because you had this offensive change in philosophy to we need to hunt big place you had that and then the remember there was that off the whole everybody misses the early 20 tens and all that offensive output then you had the Fangeo stuff come in that completely limited

54:05it that neutered that deep passing game and I still think there are some offensive coordinators and I still think there's some quarterbacks that want to go bombs away even though the defenses said we're not going to give that to you we know it's what you want we're not going to give it to you the ones that get ahead Allen my homes are the ones that have said all right you're not going to give me the explosive play 15 plays right down your throat and I'm going to keep doing that to you until you bring those safeties up and you play cover one or cover two and you respect the check down and let me get the deep shots I want it's easier said than done but that's the difference to me yeah I just think that the F let us maybe play some I think we're having a classic semantics argument right now no I just think you're arguing something that I'm not even talking about well but you're asking that like that every player has strengths and weaknesses like every player has a skill set but this isn't making you good like it isn't specific skill set it's a mentality you can get

55:07to that mentality in different ways but it's easier for other guys it's easier for guys to get to that mentality when like that's like what like Brady was just precise like he was just an efficient guy I would argue it might be easier for the Allens and my homes to run the dink and dunk because they can scramble unlike Brady could I disagree because like like you have to dissect underneath defense you have to be accurate to the short part of the field not seeing underneath defense there is no underneath defense they took it away that's the point but they're still underneath defenders you're still processing coverage you're still seeing where the space is in the zones or whatever like I I think that playing that way playing the way Brady did or playing the way breeze did or or Manning did is a skill set that's a that's a that's a way to play quarterback like that's a that's a that's a that's a spring it's more the mentality than like a physical skill set in the mentality now it would be like saying it would be like saying like some guys in basketball are really good at driving to the hoop and finishing at the rim some guys are really good at shooting threes like it's the same thing like it's like a power hitter and baseball versus like I think you

56:12can't if you can't shut down a guy that throws a hundred versus a guy that but it's it's just all of it though like it's a mentality it's a skill set like it's just the way that they approach the game it's a way they were guys but there were also guys I mean Vick who had that skill set and teams didn't necessarily play that way because the mentality was to put together these teams not to get comparison because he was so ahead of his time like a Vick was but this is my because he was ahead of his time because they didn't use it that way what do you mean he was ahead of his time because they didn't know how to use quarterbacks that could run as well as they do now because the philosophy was to move the ball down the field methodically by throwing it you just proved my point no I didn't I'm telling you that that was how those types of guys play like I don't understand how you don't understand the playing style thing like some guys are good shooters some guys are good at driving to the hoop some guys throw gas in baseball some guys like sunny gray half the wind with like smarts and wind with off speed and he went with

57:13deep any house lights out three point shooter we would both agree on that yeah why wasn't he taking 10 threes a game he he was taking a lot more threes for his time than everybody else why would it why would it because the overall Alex what you're asking people to what them to do it then we have to wrap it up even though it's a good like you're asking any house to do is drive to the hoop all the time and finish at the rim like that's what you're expecting him any house play like the overall philosophy the weight coaches approach the sport has changed I think maybe the skillsets of the quarterbacks help them do it I think if the if you didn't have these these athletic quarterbacks I don't know because like but okay we got an overall coaching philosophy what offensive coaches value has changed we are saying the same thing differently and I think it's funny key matchups Greg Russo against Morgan Moses at Oliver and Dion Walker against the patriots interior offensive line whoever the heck is covering Dalton King Cade that's what I got yeah I wish that we had more time I know we got to wrap it up guys all right

58:14patriots unfiltered coming up at 11 we'll see you then hey this is do's thanks for tuning into the show if you really want to help us make sure you like us wherever you get your podcasts like Apple podcasts or Spotify also make sure you follow us on the new e-land Patriot YouTube channel to see this show and everything else that we do here at the Patriots thanks a lot