Nuclear Space Junk Cleaners, Inc. - Week in Tech

0:00Running a small business takes everything you've got, but with Chase for Business, you're not alone. They bring together local support and a broad range of resources to more than 7 million customers. With a deep understanding of your day-to-day needs, they provide products and guidance built to help you thrive. Right now earn $500 when you open a new Chase Business Complete Checking account for new business checking customers with qualifying activities. Offer expires January 21, 2027. Chase Business Complete Checking has the flexible tools you need to accept payments, make deposits and manage your finances with confidence. Learn more at Chase.com slash podcast biz offer. Chase, make more of what's yours. These may apply to Chase Business Complete Checking accounts. The $500 offer is available for new business checking accounts with qualifying activities through January 21, 2027. Eligibility and qualification requirements must be met. Additional restrictions may apply.

1:00Please speak with a Business Banker for more information. JP Morgan Chase Bank NA. Member FDIC. I want to tell you about Keeper Security because, unlike built-in password managers, Keeper works across platforms which allows you to securely share information with your family, with your colleagues, with your friends. I personally store things like passport and credit card details so I'm not scrambling every time I travel. Which makes my life more efficient. And when you're busy but also focused on security like I am, that is absolutely critical. Keeper is offering a 50% discount on personal or family subscriptions using the promo code text stuff at Keeperssecurity.com at checkout. I meet a lot of people every day as the host of this podcast and between the follow-ups, the interview, preps and production logistics, I sometimes fear that something important is slipping past me. I've tried a few AI tools to keep my work in order and analyse the hundreds of messages across my inbox and Slack, but I found myself getting distracted when switching from work tabs to the AI chat.

2:05Superhuman Go is different. Go is from the makers of Grammily and it works inside the tools and sites you already use. You don't have to open a whole new app. Go's AI chat is available on the side of your browser. Or, already aware of what's in front of you. No new tabs, no switching apps, no losing your place. Deepened intense document or a long thread, highlight it and ask go to explain it or pull out the key points without leaving the page. You as go's chat to draft emails and messages to follow up with confidence. Before something leaves your hands, go flags what doesn't add up. A number, a name, a claim, so you don't miss anything important. Try Superhuman Go from the makers of Grammily. Find out more at superhuman.com. Your digital footprint is probably bigger than you think. A simple search can pull up your personal details where you live, how to contact you, even past information, all from data broker websites. One rep helps you take that back. They scan more than 878 data broker and people search sites, automatically remove your personal information and continuously monitor for new exposures so it stays off.

3:14It's a privacy protection that keeps working in the background. Visit 1rep.com and use code text to get up to 60% off any annual plan. Go, let's go. Taylor, I've been obsessed with Heist in the AI era and Heist gone wrong or of course some of the great comic gold. Has anyone been following the stolen Nvidia trucks? No. No. It wasn't me if that's what you asked. There are a couple of trucks with Nvidia branding on them that some thieves thought were full of Nvidia chips which of course are very valuable. The trucks were stolen but it happened they were just full of sand. Not the sanders used to make chips. The trucks belonged to the plus AI who make self-driving trucks.

4:14In order to make self-driving trucks good you have to simulate cargo loads. They're doing that with tons of sand. 20,000 tons per truck. They also happen to have a partnership with Nvidia. The Nvidia logos were just on the truck to flex about the Nvidia partnership like the NASA logo on my computer. Good advertising. If I see someone selling sand on eBay I will know where it came from. Well I see plus AI makes sure to cover the trailers and all 40,000 tons of sand so happy ending. Happy ending. Welcome to Tech Stuff. I'm Osvalotian and this is The Week in Tech where I'm joined by the world's most plugged in reporters to break down what's really happening in tech right now. Today we're joined by RudabriGoti, tech editor for Semaphore and host of the new podcast as of this week's future proof. Taylor Renns of user mag and back from leave Kyle Chaker who writes the infinite scroll column for the new welcome all. Thanks for having us.

5:15We're welcome to the podcasting ranks. Can't hear you. I think he might be muted. First chance turn your mic on. I'm learning all the rules now. Don't mute your mic. Starting off with you, I mean first just give us a brief plug for the new podcast but then I want to ask you what's going on in space. Yeah, well it's called future proof and you know we're going to interview people from all all areas of the tech industry and go deep on on topics and try to teach people something. It'll be newsy journalistic but also really go deep on stuff and and help listeners understand. I decided to check it out. This week's story for you feels a bit like the plot of a 90s bond movie involving the US competing with Russia and China to build new care powered permanent bases on the moon. What's going on? I mean is this like a fantasy or it depends on who you ask. I personally like you know I think everything in the space industry feels like fantasy until it actually happens.

6:16I remember when I first came out to the tech industry, SpaceX was sort of just becoming a thing and people were talking about satellites you know in space providing internet. And it really smart people told me that was completely impossible it would never happen now I own you know two star links. So I just take the timelines for these things and I just extend them in my mind but I don't I don't dismiss anything out right I mean nothing here is totally impossible right but you know doesn't make economic sense will make an economic sense in the near future that I don't I just don't know. I think the US has tried it once before and Russia has been sending nuclear reactors into into space since the 60s but somehow this kind of new space race thing is is particularly fast. Any Kyle who've been following it just as far as the data centers in space. I mean I think that that whole concept is really appealing to me and it kind of seems like the only answer if we're kind of having all these fights over data centers on earth.

7:18You know maybe it would be better to put them in space and have them powered in some other way. So yeah I don't know I think it reads right about the timelines extending longer than you might think but. I mean Kyle do you know what a space like I've actually looked into this recently like a space data center is not like a floating data center it is basically you have a bunch of satellites that have a GPU or two or a rack. And they're spread out like very far apart and they're connected by lasers so they communicate with each other by lasers instead of like you know on earth through fiber optic cable or copper right and because. It's not a dust star it's not like one floating massive data center right but because you know there's there's no air in space you can't cool these things in the same way you cool them on earth so. The idea is that you'll somehow pull the heat away from these GPUs and dissipate it on a massive they're going to essentially like a massive heat sink that's about the size of a tennis court I mean it is like really kind of just the craziest concept you can possibly imagine but it's not impossible I mean I but I don't know if I agree that that's going to be the thing that happens before we just get our act together on earth and build some data centers already.

8:35Yeah I mean that the concept of space junk is kind of interesting is sending up the tennis court or I think in some case even football pitch or field size kind of non convective heat dispersing panels into space I mean you have to wonder what the implications of all that stuff floating around in orbit are I think some of this when I first saw the story of the headline about the nuclear reactors in space I kind of assume somehow I had to do with power generation for AI but to my great surprise it wasn't about that it was about go ahead to. I'm going to start a business that is a space junk removal cleanup business because I think this is going to be huge business going forward I mean we're about to have something like a million satellites or Elon wants to scale to a million. Starling satellites and I think if we put data centers up there to yeah there's just going to be a lot of debris and I think that poses risks especially when it's nuclear. Yeah I mean right it's kind of well nuclear doesn't have that much risk in space I mean you know you know well yeah burn up for false earth but I mean what happens to these giant you know heat dissipating football field or tennis court size things if like a little a little spec runs into it and puts a hole in it like does it still work and then if something breaks they just drop it down and let it burn in the atmosphere which is I'm sure horrifying to people who are here trying to get their hands on the atmosphere.

9:59I mean I'm going to get their hands on like a single GPU right now but I thought the nuclear reactor thing is like you got to build those on the moon right I mean that was what you were talking about because if you want to send Mars missions staging post yeah is that what that's what you were talking about right yeah exactly and and so the current like solar power cannot generate enough power on the moon to have actually warm habitable bases right and China and Russia collaborating Russia have the best space. New technology. China I guess have good rocket trees so the new cold war in space is on you guys watch for all mankind just out of curiosity to you to do watch that show. No you got to I mean I think if you're at if you're interested in this topic you got to watch for all mankind just go just go it's on Apple TV go watch it's a sort of alternative history show about like what would have happened if the if the cold war sort of evolved a little bit differently. And space just continued to be the thing that we put all of our you know human effort and ingenuity into it like I don't want to spoil the show for you guys but you know a lot of interesting stuff happens in in space on a timeline that is not that is a lot more accelerated than we have today it's a it's a really fun show I think it's you know I've enjoyed it.

11:18Do we need more space propaganda. Like pro space. Pro space content to encourage us all it beats the propaganda we have right now I mean I'll take that up. I got a NASA stick on my computer what's what's to take on Jared is the man I mean the head of NASA Trump initially rejected him during the Trump Elon for do but then changes mind and and I was confirmed. Obviously a private sector billionaire what's he doing at NASA like what's the public private relationship in space in the US today read. Well I mean I he's certainly helping Elon right there was a lot of tension with with Elon in the Biden administration and I think Jared helping helping Elon there's less tension between space acts and NASA. But you know I haven't heard any sort of controversies about him he seems to be you know doing a fine job we'll see what the effects of his term are but I mean the general trend I think in NASA is like more and more of this is becoming privatized.

12:20You know there's good things in that things about that right I think the public interest mission of space that I think we're all used to from our childhood of you know space shuttle going up and doing all these science experiments. I mean some of that is for sure going to be going to be lost when the private sector sort of takes over and I think that's kind of sad but the same time. It's incredible the stuff that has been accomplished I think it's it's amazing not to mention just having a start like on my camper van in California that's like the ultimate life so. I do want to just note that on the kind of safety issue with the nuclear reactors in space there was a Russian nuclear reactor thing that came down to earth and US intelligence say that five people killed the Russians. Deny this but just before we go to the break I mean this this idea of kind of cleaning space junk and including nuclear space junk have you have you met any companies in this space. Yeah I talk to orbital which is you know seeking to put the data centers in space recently and visited their offices in LA.

13:25So I do think that there's sort of like a space race with a lot of different startups right now trying to build out. Infrastructure in that realm. What did you learn orbital what they're doing is cool I mean I think it's just like they're up against a lot of competition as read said to it's like everything seems impossible until. Somebody does it and I personally think that the data center fight is not going away anytime soon and we're going to need more compute so yeah if they can put them in space why not. Well what's interesting about orbital is the founder was the scooter guy right so spin he had a scooter startup in San Francisco and then he kind of worked for Ford I think and then he sold it and now I'm going to I'm going to just make a space data center company because that's the obvious next move. After a reason why is because he has a lot of connection and manufacturing and in China so I do think that like building a scooter company ironically kind of prepared him to just do some sort of hardware startup generally. Yeah I was being a tongue in cheek but actually like I think that there's there is like a point to be made which is that like the whole idea of you know space acts and blue origin these companies to like get infrastructure up into space is that you sort of enable a new crop of entrepreneur.

14:38To work on space related ideas and companies so it's like if you think of it as like all this infrastructure as a platform it lets this guy who was a scooter entrepreneur all of a sudden be a space entrepreneur which never would have been possible if you didn't have the you know space X rockets to get his equipment up in the space right that he was never going to start a rocket company but now he can start a space company and I think that's I think that's actually kind of a profound point he I think that's actually kind of a good thing. This is one of them when we come back who pays when chat bots lead you astray.

15:54This is an I heart podcast guaranteed human small businesses are the pulse of every community they bring people together create opportunities and drive growth. Chase for business helps business owners like you with personalized guidance and convenient digital tools all in one place with that guidance and your determination you can take your business further and help build a brighter future for your community learn more at chase.com slash business chase for business make more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices message and data rates may apply JP Morgan Chase bank NA member FDIC copyright 2026 JP Morgan Chase and company I want to tell you about keeper security because unlike built in password managers keeper works across platforms which allows you to securely share information with your family with your colleagues with your friends and what I like about it is it goes beyond the world gardens of Apple Google.

16:55Google and Samsung so that everything is accessible regardless of what device you're on keep a family allows you to extend this to partners and kids making it easy to securely share important information. I personally saw things like passport and credit card details so I'm not scrambling every time I travel and it's been a complete game changer storing and accessing passwords which makes my life more efficient and when you're busy but also focused on security like I am that is absolutely critical. Keepers offering a 50% discount on personal or family subscriptions using the promo code text stuff at keepers security dot com at checkout your digital footprint is probably bigger than you think a simple search can pull up your personal details what you live how to contact you even past information all from data broker websites one rep helps you take that back. They scan more than 878 data broker and people search sites automatically remove your personal information and continuously monitor for new exposures so it stays off.

17:57It's a privacy protection that keeps working in the background visit one rep dot com and use code text up to get up to 60% off any annual plan. These days there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health your social media feeders packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge protein max and so much more but what's actually real what's exaggerated what's just wrong. Health versus height from the American Medical Association breaks it all down Emmy nominated host Trace Demingas talks to health influencers real people and most importantly doctors to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health who you listen to matters listen to health versus hype wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back Taylor there was a piece in futurism this week that there's a kind of golden old E quality to it a kind of tech made me do it story remember there was that. Episode of the office where Michael Scott drives his car into the lake on purpose because GPS told him to and nowadays it's not GPS but AI and called in particular that's leading not drivers but hikers a stray.

19:08Yeah I actually read about this in the New York Times they did a good story on it but basically this guy was hiking in British Columbia and he went off the trail and he used Claude as part of his planning process and ultimately had to be rescued off the side of a cliff because he was not a qualified enough hiker to you know to get himself out of the situation he had. Use I don't think this is an AI problem necessarily I actually ended up literally last week or two weekends ago when I was back in LA I went to go on a hike and ended up in this like burned out section of all to Dina where there was like no water no the trail was a mess and I had read about it online and even like looked it up you know I'm ahead of time and it's just that that route after the fire it changed a year ago and all the stuff. Of course my friends were like why wouldn't you use all trails I think all trails is sort of the standard for this and if you go anywhere outside the internet you're sort of risking it.

20:12Kyle you know it's sagely about all trails you seem like a trail yes I'm not which is the whole problem. I'm not a hiking guy I think I would end up in a in a bad situation but I think if you have ever explored all trails you know why relying on AI for your hiking knowledge is a terrible idea like like all trails is the most human intricate detailed set of commentary and data that you can possibly have I think in an app because it'll be like okay a hundred feet to your right like don't take this trail look for the rock. I can go the other way or if you are an inexperienced type or maybe don't even bother so like all trails I don't know I want a person directly to tell me in their own words what I shouldn't should do on one of these hiking trails and and a person recently because the changes all the time the like the hike that I went on a couple weeks ago like it was rated really people had blogged this hot you know like it was just not up to date information and so.

21:19Yeah I just think that like there's a lot of people interested in outdoors but you need to rely on all this is like an all trails ad like I think like you know he could have not used Claude and I don't know that he wouldn't have ended up in the same situation especially when you're going off the trail you know. He got rescued sorting it up and the rescue manager said Claude has never been in that specific area has never been on that route has never been any outdoors is this like a just like a sticking rocks to the pizza with glue type story or like what's the not so much that yeah and that was so silly too like I mean I guess like especially futurism is a website that like loves to write up this stuff as like it's just rage bait content to kind of be like ha ha you idiot you know look at you. And to me it's like look it's a real problem with accuracy I think this shows the value actually of these human created like very human updated apps like that's what it shows the value of it's not that AI is inherently unreliable I was a 99.99% of things that you ask AI and including that like Google you know Gemini I guess review that had suggested you put glue on your pizza

22:24and that was from a reddit thread you know early iterations of AI were certainly less reliable they're getting smarter and smarter again it just has to do with the fact that when you're going out into the physical world hiking specifically until we get drones you know going out and scouting these trails for us I think like something like all trails is just the way to go or the humanoid robots. Yeah we have we send the humanoid robots out the girls the trails but it was striking to me like hiking is a subjective thing like yeah difficulty is subjective how much your body can take is subjective like AI if you're not an experienced like our AI is not going to be able to tell you what you can handle in this situation so maybe in this case like don't don't ask for to ask your friends in my experience like I don't know if you guys go backpacking and stuff that like if something really bad doesn't happen where you think you might die like it's kind of a boring trip like those are the things you always remember you know I think okay I am not trying to go on that read is going on I love hiking a leisurely trail in the woods I think I'm gonna go ahead and go ahead and try to get a better view of the trail.

23:34I think also you know this is a teenager I think he was 16 years old so I think there's also just teenagers don't traditionally have a great track record of judging risk and potential for bodily harm yeah people always been doing dumb stuff there is something in the automation bias like AI psychosis adjacent thing here though I got my my green fingers burn earlier this year when I really went went to town on pruning my roses with the encouragement of Gemini and actually I think I end up killing them and I had to confess that I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do that but I think that's the landlord so I feel like you can like lean into hard to the reassuring advice of AI suddenly the story that comes it's behind this story for me that was the kind of AI responsibility and liability story. Taylor I think this has been also in the news this week in terms of how insurance payments work out when AI does harm and whose hell liable like AI hugging face episode for example like in that case hugging face didn't sue open AI but if they had to go to the face didn't sue open AI but if they had who would have had the liability in a situation well it's a company hacking another company so the company has liability it intentionally made the models yeah

24:45yeah I think the question though there is there I think there is a really interesting legal question it's going to have to be answered which is like let's say you're not open AI and there's got to be some cases where you could end up accidentally doing harm right and then I think the question I think or not to interrupt but just to finish or I think this was like the second part maybe that you want to get up but like here's the question that I think we're going to have to answer is when we move into this more agentic era of the internet who is responsible for the agents actions and with open AI it is literally their model of course the response was this is test that they were doing but if I use rock bought for instance to go out into the world and do a lot of things for me automate my lifestyle and I end up causing harm to someone I lose you know banks are super super concerned about this I was talking to somebody the banking industry yesterday about it because if my rock box goes out and spends lots of money I am probably going to be inclined to declare that as fraud and you know the bank will suddenly be held liable and banks are lobbying right now to say hey hey hey no no no no it's rock that's liable so there's all these questions around agents and I do think that there's a much more compelling case for liability for companies that are building agents to be liable for the money

25:58agents to be liable for their agents you know I think it just is a question to of how are you using that agent did you jailbreak the agent are you using it within terms of use and I just think those are battles that we're going to see or what if we use open source right I think that's going to be another one where it's like what if I'm using open source agents or open weight or what if it's let's say you get sued for something you did and now there's the discovery process and you see all your prompts and your prompts show that you you were acting in good faith and you reasonably thought that you know there was not you can unintentionally do harm to somebody else and that's taken into account in terms of the legal fight but if you build if I build software you know that's my personal boutique software that I'm using and I use it to do something you know maybe it was unintentional harm and again that can be taken into consideration but I built that software and I'm using it for the purposes that I built it for right but I think there you know you could see a world where you know maybe regulators want to hold whoever made the open weight models live

27:01that would be disastrous and arranged I mean hope that would be and that is what I and the right be people try to do that I mean this is the argument that they're trying to make against speech on content platforms as well right like you know or chat you be T is responsible because somebody looked up how busy the student center was before doing a shooting and therefore chat should be D is responsible for the shooting that sort of liability is incredibly dangerous and we should not seek to build that system because then people won't have that open access to information they want to open access to technology they won't be able to build software then we're putting in speech restrictions because building software of course coding like is speech and if we start to restrict that speech it goes down a dark road but I think 99% of people are not going to build software I think what will happen I was talking to Schumer's Chief of Staff actually this week who has this AI agent act that I don't think is very good but you know she was saying like they'll probably eventually be something like an app store where it's like you know what could you could you go off and do this yourself yes you're taking huge risk but here is a bunch of trusted apps that and I think there's going to be marking

28:07competition right for these sort of trusted agent technologies what kind of policies though I like open AI and and Gork an anthropic taking out trying to get new forms of coverage against like because for sure the lawsuits are coming right when people experience harm based on something that bought us either down or recommended I don't know I've I think I've I actually think I probably committed crimes with chat GBT like inadvertently already like I think it's probably happened because like these laws are so strict on what you can do with software like just like digital money and copyright act like you can break the wall like so easily I know I mean which is but that this is why we need to obliterate copyright law we're getting far but it feels like as we get more and more pretty in agents it's like there's going to be more and more mishaps more and more like debates over their responsibility actually the copyright law is a perfect segue to to Kyle after the break for history but before we go that Kyle I mean you missed and while you're on paternity leave

29:09a you know week by week play by play coverage of the hugging face open AI hack and the AI extinction all all this for the last three months like having not been talking about it with us every single week like what's what's your kind of overall take on on what's happened in this question about who's responsible when AI stuff goes wrong like where is the culture on that question yeah like rip van winkle yeah I mean I'm catching up a little bit on the nuts and bolts of it but I think it matters who who sets the agent on this task like who is who is the user who is the actor behind a given operation and for open AI like they clearly set the the agents on this task that eventually went off the rails but that's like their responsibility I think it becomes harder when you have more and more different kinds of agents more and more systems more open models more things that kind of come from nowhere and aren't as trackable and I kind of feel like those things must be happening right now already and we just haven't heard about it and don't quite know yet

30:21as more and more things go wrong I feel like we're going to be taken by surprise when we come back Kyle you have a hunch that maybe we won't need software subscriptions all that much longer we can only hope stay with us running small business takes everything you've got but with chase for business you're not alone they bring together local support and a broad range of resources to more than seven million customers with a deep understanding of your day to day needs they provide products and guidance built to help you thrive right now earn $500 when you open a new chase business complete checking account for new business checking customers with qualifying activities offer expires January 21st 2027 chase business complete checking has the flexible tools you need to accept payments make deposits and manage your finances with confidence learn more at chase.com slash podcasts

31:22business offer chase make more of what's yours these may apply to chase business complete checking accounts the $500 offer is available for new business checking accounts with qualify activities through January 21st 2027 eligibility and qualification requirements must be met additional restrictions may apply please speak with a business banker for more information jp Morgan chase bank and a member fd i c this is osvalotion from tech stuff and I want to tell you about keeper security because unlike built in password managers keeper works across platforms which allows you to securely share information with your family with your colleagues with your friends and what I like about it is it goes beyond the world gardens of apple google and Samsung so that everything is accessible regardless of what device you're on keeper family allows you to extend this to partners and kids making it easy to securely share important information. I personally saw things like passport and credit card details so I'm not scrambling every time I travel and it's been a complete game changer storing and accessing passwords which makes my life more efficient and when you're busy but also focused on security like I am that is absolutely critical keeper is offering a 50% discount on personal or family subscriptions using the promo code

32:41tech stuff at keeper security dot com at checkout I made a lot of people every day as the host of this podcast and between the follow up the interview prep some production logistics I sometimes fear that something important is slipping past me. I've tried a few AI tools to keep my work in order and analyze the hundreds of messages across my inbox and slack but I found myself getting distracted when switching from work tabs to the AI chat superhuman go is different. Go is from the makers of grammy and it works inside the tools and sites you already use you don't have to open a whole new app goes AI chat is available on the side of your browser already aware of what's in front of you no new tabs no switching apps no losing your place. Deep in intense document or long thread highlighted and ask go to explain it or pull out the key points without leaving the page. He goes chat to draft emails and messages to follow up with confidence before something leaves your hands go flags what doesn't add up a number a name a claim so you don't miss anything important.

33:47Try superhuman go from the makers of grammy find out more at superhuman dot com your digital footprint is probably bigger than you think. A simple search can pull up your personal details what you live how to contact you even past information all from data broker websites one rep helps you take that back. They scan more than 878 data broker and people search sites automatically remove your personal information and continuously monitor for new exposures so it stays off. It's a privacy protection that keeps working in the background visit one rep dot com and use code text up to get up to 60% off any annual plan. Welcome back Kyle I understand you've been following a trend in software where AI is changing all the rules tell us exactly what photon studios is more you interested in it. Yeah I mean I think this was coming up increasingly often on X like you know X is a great way to just follow what people in AI are talking about like sharing and posting as brags on a week by week basis and I feel like at least in my zone this week was about decomplation which is this word that was new to me actually.

35:00Of taking a given product like whether it's a photoshop or a video game drawing it back to the source code and then recompiling that source code as something else with the help of AI seriously creating like a totally open source remixable hackable version of any kind of software video game or piece of code. What does that mean and how does it work. Well it means that you're like taking the code translating it back to its basic form and then re translating it into a different form. Is this is the same as distilling. Yeah no not not in terms of model stuff not in any way this is like a much more basic thing like like we're just getting the source code of something that's been programmed like a video game. And we're basically like releasing it to to the world's like we're we're taking all those component parts and we're putting them back out into the world in a form that anyone can can kind of tinker with them and reuse.

36:01So in the case of photon studios I think they did that to Photoshop. So they took the whole Adobe Photoshop architecture the whole interface the whole sweet of tools decompliled using AI. And then put it back online just as a browser tool so you can now go in your browser and open Photoshop. Exactly the same experience. There's no subscription. There's no signing up. There's no anything. It's just like here you go. And that was kind of a mind blowing experience to me as someone who had to like you know get the hacked software keys. Because we're all going to prison. Right. This is this is kind of agents helping you break the wall a little bit. I went down this rabbit hole to this week. Kyle like I I'm writing something for the newsletter tomorrow actually about this. But the the decomplation thing which I hadn't really heard of. And then I heard about it because of the video game mashups.

37:03Have you seen these? Yeah. People combined different games. Decompiling video games and then recompiling them but like in mashup version. So I think yeah. Like you know, Mario and L.D. Ring or Minecraft and Red Dead Redemption. And it like looks perfect. Like you see these clips and it's like literally it's just Mario in the old West or whatever. I'm not a gamer but in the comments were so we're so eye opening to me because like gamers were just losing their minds about this capability. And like loving it. I saw these crazy comments like, oh my god. Like everybody hates AI but like this is finally the thing that makes me love AI. Like this is incredible. Finally I can be Mario in college duty. Like cool. That's your dream come true. Super. Like one guy was like, this is like this is like AI curing cancer for gamers. Well, it's kind of I don't know. I like it's a small thing to accomplish. In a way, the Photoshop thing was more impressive to me because it was like,

38:06it demonstrated how all software could become open source and how there was no defense against a decent amateur programmer, decompiling and recompiling your corporate software products. I mean, that's like the Sesspokalips on steroids, right? Like you don't have to vibe code and alternative. You can just literally copy it into the line thing. But I saw people also commenting on that Photoshop thing saying that like, oh, it doesn't work as well. Like it uses up too much memory, you know, that kind of stuff. So this is like the worst of ever be, right? Yeah, I was trying the web version and for me, who's just like messing around in layers and like doing type stuff, it's absolutely fine. And and it's great. Like it's the kind of thing that I would use on a week to week basis and get rid of my Photoshop subscription. So that took me a back, but there are like, modes, right? Like Nintendo is already doing copyright violations to take down clips of Mario and Elden Ring and Adobe will have defenses against this, including that like the AI versions

39:11don't replicate all of their features and all of their like, they're going to have to stop and then from allowing it, right? Because like otherwise everybody, you don't need to download it, right? You could just do it at home with your, you know, with cloud, right? That's not, I mean, that's not a moat. That's more of a like legal recourse after the horse is bolted to stable. No, I mean, yeah. And can you just tell them, oh, please code something that's like Photoshop for me? Like probably. Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of the beauty. I feel like of allowing more people to build software, which is, and I think that what's scary is like all of these people that want to restrict that process. Dave, you guys, did you ever play this game called Golden Eye, the James Bond game? Yeah. I was thinking about that game with the nuclear reactors on space. I feel like that would have been a perfect, like episode. Of Golden Eye, the game. Yeah. Somebody decompailed Golden Eye like before the AI age and they like just finished. And I was reading about this in my rabbit hole this week. And it took them like 10 years to decompile it.

40:13And I was like, I feel bad for those people because nothing could just ask a claw to do it. Yeah. Now it takes weeks. Like, like I saw some charts and it's like, oh, super smash brothers took a decade. And now you can do it in three weeks. So it's like really striking acceleration. Though I on reads note, there is this really interesting backlash from the hands decompilers where they're like, no, we love doing this artisanal craft by hand. I'm like taking years to replicate our favorite video games. And now these shallow vibe coded decompiling versions are just cheap imitations. It's like, I don't know. I think they're pretty good. No, the handy compiler people that will be like a job in the AI future where it's like, oh, dude, I got a hand decompiling copy of this game. It's so good. You're so much better. What's the business implication of this? Is it like a huge, huge, like ongoing risk for companies like Adobe who have a property

41:14self-worth? No, I think it's about like differentiating your products. But I do think that they can't lock you. And I do think in this world where everybody can build kind of basic level software, you really need to provide serious value to consumers. I think this is ultimately good for consumers. I think it just depends on how, again, we regulate it. And if we start doing these crazy restrictions on the ability to build software, that's going to be a problem. But I think like, look, you can build a cheap copy of Adobe Photoshop. It's not going to work as well. You're not going to get access to all these community features and events and things like that. And I think that's going to differentiate the big winners. I agree. I think this is like a really exciting time. And obviously, like, I don't want copyright to be, I want copyright law to still exist. But it would be really sad if the AI era just gets like smushed into the wall garden thing all over again. I think that would be a sad result. Decompiling is the act of doing it illegal.

42:15And is it in the eye of the holder? Like, could there be a debate? Was this decommiled? Was this actually created from scratch using generative AI? Like, what's the question? I mean, I don't think decomparaling itself is illegal. I think what's been what they're already fighting back against is the uploading it online. So like the Nintendo clips, they fight back against that really fast Photoshop. I feel like it's only a matter of time. I just gem in it. It says that it's not automatically illegal under the DMCA or US copyright law as long as it's done for lawful purposes such as achieving interoperability. So it sounds like it's illegal. Have any of you actually tried to do it? No. No, we'll have to think of something good. Like, I was reading the blog post of someone who decompiled a really old Game Boy advanced game that they were obsessed with, con cranoa or something, and Claude discovered some Easter egg that no one had found before in the source code. Like, that's, that seems so fun and interesting to be able to go through that process so quickly

43:18and kind of break down old pieces of software. We know in a video game, this is entertainment, it's culture, it's not as threatening to a business model as remaking Photoshop instantly or like remakingriverside.com into a better version. Well, that's all we have time for today. Thanks to our pun as a Riverside. Just thank you for joining us just kidding. Great to be here. For Texter, I'm Osvaloshin. This episode was produced by Liza Dennis. It was exactly produced by me and Julian Nutter for Collider's Gobe. And Katrina Norvelf I Heart Podcasts, Kyle Murdoch mixed this episode and wrote our theme song. A special thank you to Read Out Regarding Kyle Chaker and Taylor Lorenz. Please check out all the work they put out into the world. We're lucky to call them Friends of the Pod.

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