NHL Opening Night preview + Marchenko-Knies trade reaction

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1:07In Episode 86 of Believe in Banking, she shares how storytelling can build visibility and drive real growth. From adrenaline, search Believe in Banking, Episode 86, and listen now. This is The Athletic Hockey Show. Hey everybody and welcome to a special live episode of The Athletic Show. It is opening night in the NHL. I am Max Boltman here in Detroit, joined by Sean Gentilly in Pittsburgh and Shayna Goldman in New York. Opening night guys, 84 game season, and the NHL is starting us off with a big day, five games, some of the most interesting teams in the league and be playing tonight. But Sean, as the appetizer to all of that, we've got a trade to kick things off and it involves one of the teams playing tonight.

2:09The Toronto Maple Leafs getting Carrile Marchenko from the Columbus Blue Jackets. They also take on Elvis Merzlikens and Miles Wood, the other way they send Matthew Nies, as well as a Miel Andres Steven Lawrence. And then we have the team that is going to be playing tonight. This is a big trade in a lot of ways. What's the first place that your mind goes when you see this one yesterday? Carrile Marchenko is so much better than I thought he was. That's it. He's a guy. No, he's actually worse than he's a leaf now. I like him way less than I did like two days ago. He's a guy in China. You can vouch for this because this is something I think we both experience year over year with the player tears project in the summer when we talked to 20, 25, 30 folks around the league and get their stance on various stars and various high end players.

3:15There are always guys who jump off the page a little bit. There are always guys who, you know, lead personnel is way more excited about than I am potentially and I think that was Marchenko this year. I was not shocked but but somewhat surprised by the amount of people we spoke to over the summer who are like this dude is the real deal. We had coaches saying he was a top 10 winger. We had other front office folks saying that he was you know one of the most underrated players in the league. I had a I had a development exec go on and on and on about how he is the guy about how Marchenko was the guy on the blue jacks. They'd excited about rather than Adam Fantilly like on and on and on heard for weeks in conversations about about how good Marchenko was right. So that changed my opinion of him coming into the season and I think it changes my opinion on the trade. I don't think I would feel the way I feel about this move for the Toronto Maple Leafs you know two months ago.

4:19They got the best player and involved involved in the deal. I think almost always that's the only thing you look for that's that's the you know the way to check the box and guarantee that you win a deal when you when you require the the headline guy. I think that's what they've done. There are reasons not to like it. I think you know long term cap for for Toronto gets a little bit squishier but at the end of the day man Marchenko is a super skilled play driving winger who fits their window right now. And I feel better about that Ross overall and I feel better about their changes in the Atlantic division now versus 24 hours ago. So how does it change the look of the Toronto Maple Leafs because on one hand it shons right that Marchenko has has a lot to bring to the table on the other hand they sign under the extension right away doesn't kick in this year kicks in next year. But in some ways you could look at this and say the Toronto Maple Leafs just got older on the wing. They got a guy who has relatively similar production that Matthew Nice has on the wing, but it is a different flavor.

5:19There's different ways to look at this it's an oversimplification but how does it change the look of the Toronto Maple Leafs. If we're going to knock Marchenko for being old then I'm literally ancient okay older older. If we knock Marchenko for being old we have to knock Austin Matthews for being old that's because I like it they don't have time to waste here. They need to show that dude in particular that they're that they're in it to win it and Marchenko gets that done man like don't worry about where they're at in three years like that they need to make hey while they can. Yeah right because who's to say where Matthews will be in three years and you really have to think about that now like everything going on in the league right now is swirling I mean Marchenko literally just forces way out of Columbus. I think it's it's really interesting because in a perfect world they wouldn't have had to move Matthew Nice and they could have him you know jump down and be that fourth fifth forward which he's more cut out to beat we saw him on the wing last year. Struggle to be the guy behind kneelander which it should have been kneelander and Mariner and then nice like it's it's a totally different configuration for them versus Marchenko who's the number one guy in Columbus probably shouldn't be a number one guy but it's still so sick and I think he just.

6:27It's a different skill set because with knives we all love these this unique power forward and he's the kind of guy so many teams want and the scoring hasn't necessarily been the concern it's what's gone on below the surface and his defense and you know is his place. Driving numbers if being just a result of Craig Ruby like there are a lot of questions to ask that we'll find out a lot this season now that he's going to be in a totally different situation but Marchenko checks so many boxes like he's a more dynamic player which is what they need he's a really great playmaker he has a great shot he also plays with a little bit more speed which Toronto needs because again you can blame Craig Ruby for sucking the life out of this team out of the speed the skill everything that made Toronto special it feels like it's a great. Toronto special it feels like they got back with Marchenko in a way and now he's literally never going to have to be the number one guy unless you know Matthews leaves tomorrow but say it's Matthews number one you could think it's knee landed to Marchenko three and then as knee landed ages and Gavin mechanic jumps up Marchenko might stay the number three maybe that's a sweet spot but to have them there could be a luxury to because we haven't seen him in that capacity if he's as great as he is on a blue jackets team that's pretty much all middle sixers what's he going to look like on a team that's a lot more.

7:38Dynamic on a team that's a lot more dynamic even if you keep it even that you've tuned defensively minded coaches right because. Hilar that's what we know him to be and that's what bonus was in Columbus and he still did all of this. Yeah what I think you're getting at and what Mike Beb in the comments here is getting at is that there's a slot in consideration to this we're going to talk about how the points were fairly equal between these two players. One of them did it without a superstar supporting cast in Columbus and is now going to a supporting superstar cast in Toronto the other did it with a superstar supporting cast in Toronto and is now going to be asked to kind of be more of the guy and I think the balance there does favor Marchenko that being said like I do think Columbus did as well as they could have. In the situation here I agree that the Toronto is getting the best player in this trade. But a month ago and even a week ago when we were reading answers on the show of of Carl Marchenko being asked do you like play and hockey here. I did not see a happy ending coming for Columbus and I think getting a player like Matthew Nies who is cost controlled you have a month or control for five more years at a really good number who brings a really appealing physical element to his game in addition to real skill and real offense do I think Matthew Nies is going to score 65 70 points every year in Columbus I think he's going to have a lot harder time of doing it than he wasn't Toronto.

8:52But I do think they did as well as they could have done Sean for the corner that they were backed into with this player. Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a desire for any trade man you try to you try to pick who wins and who loses and I think that's reductive. I think there's some necessary context on both sides here where the leaves let's let's let's take it back to the leafs anything. Who are the tradable assets on that roster really like that's that's why they moved out nice is because they don't have other pieces that anybody would want that they could also trade right like the then diagram. You know was not was not favorable to them there so they want to go and get better it was it was going to take moving out a guy like nice and there aren't a lot of trade there aren't a lot of available players. Where you can have knives as the main give back and also return you know a better player I think I think it made sense on both sides I think Columbus you know did well to get a cost controlled you know really solid compliment menry piece like that's that's all that's that's okay they can handle that.

10:06The leafs on the other hand man they needed another star they needed another guy who's capable of driving his own line and and being being the guy on a line and that is girl Marchenko like he's shown that over the last couple you shown that over the last couple years. And that's why when you look at the leafs down the line up I know we're seeing comments in here you know saying you know they're worried about about moving out about moving out physicality and great quality that's that's I get it. But they also were short on quality top six players and that's what Kieril that's what Kieril Marchenko is and I think you know I want to be careful on given John shake it's too much credit here right because it's still really early in the tenure. But the bottom their bottom six is is reasonable right now they have enough grit they have enough grinders they have enough in the Colton sizzens and Brandon do am's and and Paul's of the world like they're full up there they don't need more guys like that. They needed someone like Kieril Marchenko to to help them reestablish themselves as a legitimate contender in the Atlantic in the Atlantic division I don't think they were there before that they still might not be but they're a lot closer now than they were a day ago.

11:18What I would say to that though is that you have your your Nick Paul's and your guys like that lower in the lineup what I liked about Matthew knives there is that he was a guy who could do that on the line with your skill guys right I don't like that you have one line that comes on and it's kind of flash and dash and one line that's supposed to be all your grid I think ideally you want balance across lines now with that being said like we saw what happened when Toronto lost Mitch Mariner and I think they clearly needed some of the sizzle back and I think that's what this kind of accomplishes for them is it it works that way this this also works you know we've seen the reporting on what the caps going to do in the next couple years. This works for both of these two franchises in that way right like if what if what fell the Toronto Maple Leafs in the last era was that the cap timing made their their big star contracts unworkable that does not look like that's going to be the case in the next era of the cap in the current era of the cap and they can go back to kind of trying it's not going to be exactly what it was but they can kind of go back to trying that mold and with a little more favorable cap environment to do that with I will say I saw the comment that said people are talking up nice to make that.

12:21I think I've had Matthew Nies on at least one Olympic USA roster projection in the last year or two so you're going to have to bring that one to another athletic hockey show host it's not going to fly here. I can make a one to I can I can think of two yeah I think it might be two to two in particular I think it's tough though because it's like anytime you're going to compare players head to head and naturally like we have to hear right like they are the two centerpieces of this contract of this trade. So we're going to be nitpicking who brings what and who fits where and it's like nice is a very good player nice has a lot of potential I remember looking on his comps after the 24 25 season Mark stone was number one but then last year. Because of all the dips below the surface it was Victor asked like that's a massive range of outcomes here and the high end of the scale was still max pass already like that's still in him. But it's different from what Marchenko brings Marchenko has star potential he could be a tier two guy. Nice in the perfect world is great player to play shotgun in your top six and bring something different max you mentioned it like that kind of skill in the top six is super valuable if you have your zone entry machines on line one.

13:31And you know that when they don't have a clean entry or things get a little bit grittier in the playoffs you can dump the puck in and he's going to race for it and then get to that net front area and just wreak havoc that's a great thing to have but also like he still needs to do that he needs to hit that level he hasn't yet so it makes sense why it sounds like guys is getting knocked through all this because he is in a sense but there's still a lot of potential there. I do want to say one more thing and then we can transfer it so I can about actual actual hockey games. This was a comment that we flashed up on the stream when teams see they're only able to be a rush team opponents will simply stop the rush that's true that's a that is overall a true statement. Carol Marchenko was a more effective for check player last season in Matthew nice was by it by a lot of different measures so don't so I don't I'm not he's a big boy for sure I'm not going to I'm not going to guess as to why people think the Carol Marchenko is a rush only like non physical player but I think you can fill in some gaps if you want to there he's effective in a bunch of different ways don't just assume that this is all skill all rush he's not he showed it over the last couple years and I am fully copying like I said before

14:39to being unfamiliar with his game to some extent of a few months ago this is a really really good hockey player and he's probably good in ways that you don't realize everyone's going to be experts on him now that's a consequence of going to Toronto everyone's going to just to discover chrome Marchenko was never watched a blue jacket game listed I get at the blue jackets deserve a lot of crap for this summer and they do but if you didn't watch him there like you were missing out sorry so now everyone's going to be experts and be like oh my god have you ever heard of chrome Marchenko yes bestie yeah he's a really good player Mack and dude talked himself into Creole the Chanco talk to himself into Creole Marchenko in the group chat yesterday I watch it happen so yeah it's it's it's going to happen for a lot of other people's on a lot of other people to I think I think just really quick I my one fear with Columbus is that be when you make that trade off all the sudden all like nice fantilly sounds like the bones of a cups second line and I wonder where is the first line if until he doesn't doesn't really take off if Ken Johnson doesn't really take off he's the playmaker on that line it's going to a lot's going to fall to him.

15:40Let's stay with Toronto because they are one of the teams playing tonight and they are playing against the Montreal canadians last season's big upstart success story the Montreal canadians have some of the best young contracts in the league some of the best young players in the league and my first question for you Sean is can they repeat what they did last year can they build on what they did last year or is there some regression risk here. We've seen their core players get better year over year over year it's true for Nick Suzuki it's true for Cole coffee it's true for your is leftkovsky it's certainly true for Lane Hudson these are the guys who are the foundational pieces for this team moving forward right we can all agree on that. And they've the upper trajectory for all of those guys to some degree has been pointed upward for for the last few years so I think that being the case I think you need to allow the possibility allow for the possibility that they're going to keep getting better because that's what we've seen now is a crazy to expect Nick Suzuki to get better after after scoring 100 points and it'd be tough and we're so he like yeah I like sure.

16:50But also I didn't ever think he was going to be 100 point player and in when a silky right so there's there's meat on the bone maybe not for him in you know what is it for coffee is he going to score 60 I don't know but like I've got another year slath absolutely does in Hudson does for sure too. So I think you need to allow for the possibility that one or two or certainly three of those guys I didn't even mention Demidov like you got to account for the possibility that those guys continue getting better and if that happens everything else is going to ultimately fall into place for the Montreal canadians the questions whether it's this year whether it's next year certainly the center depth is is that's an accident waiting to happen but ultimately ultimately the talent that they have in place in the ability that those guys are going to be able to do that. I think we've shown to elevate their game year over year even when we've wondered if they're already bumping up up against the ceiling. I think we got to take that seriously and I think we got to consider that like the level of the talent there in their ability to kind of find another gear.

17:55That's what makes me think that yeah that that there's immediately that this could be another you know Eastern conference final team or something I think the possibility you know has to be taken seriously. You see JD's comment on the screen here he says curious who Montreal will go after now that Marchenko has gone I got two thoughts on this one I like that is avatar is like a red wings logo that's hiding for it like it's like don't don't please don't tell anyone I'm a red wings fan. Not right now. Exactly not this week not this month not this summer or maybe the red wings logo is moving very slowly into frame to try to mimic what the organization does now that's a he's he's that's a Trojan horseman he's trying to get us to talk about ill and larkin getting traded in Montreal canadians because he because he makes way too much sense well the question does lead there right because Montreal was one of the discussed potential landing spots for the and well it would have made sense they end up they get Chris Crider to kind of fill a wing spot for them and it's a different approach there much of kind of keeps their powder driver what I think she is their biggest need and Sean alluded to it right I don't have a huge problem with their center depth.

19:01It's really just one spot on the center depth chart and it's that number two center if you were going to pick and Achilles heel for this team I think everyone starting there no. Yeah well roster wise yeah bigger picture whole organization I have an issue with the fact that they're going to be running this penalty kill I have a serious issue with that okay so that's my number one right now but yes we're talking roster it's the 2c spot and it's it's so interesting especially that they're playing Toronto tonight of course it's it's like here's Matthew nice who they missed out on goes to Columbus and then chrome or Chanka who would have made even more sense for them they miss out on but here's the big thing Montreal's core is so cost effective and there's a lot of things that I'm going to do. I'm going to give you a chance to get back to the team and they're at the right stages of their window that it gives the Canadians so much leeway here right because we've seen a lot of teams jump the gun and go for these 33 year olds when they're not at that point they're not ready so the time lines don't line up or we see massive deals to 30 year olds in free agency and it just doesn't make sense. I think these are at the very early stages of what should be a very long window and they're so young that I think that they could go and go with the green and go for more players up at that timeline or they could jump up to say a rhino Riley if he were to be willing because he would make a ton of sense there too.

20:15I don't think they need to be looking for me be like the most offensive you know speedy center to necessarily go there like they don't need to be like okay we don't have kind of make David how do we find our own once no again but they could go for the game. I think they're going to be a lot more realistic for that like two way center because I think their wingers are so dynamic and mix and match a little bit so I don't I don't think that would be a bad thing either even though they're number one guy in Suzuki is sucky caliber I think that they have a lot of options here Larkin is a dream fit like absolutely yes but if we're going to take a step back go what's a little more realistic I think a rhino Riley could make a lot of sense here. I would rather have a guy who was good at a bunch of different stuff in that in that spot for them not necessarily great in any one thing I think that would represent an upgrade and what they've got you know generally right now which is you have the Jake Evans and filled the nose of the world who have bottom six utility I'm not I'm not knocking those guys as you know potential pieces on on a good team. But when you're talking about Alex new hook and Oliver captain and trying to center you know a scoring line for a team that has very realistic very legitimate playoff aspirations here that's that's not going to work and you can't put all your eggs in the Michael Hague basket either right we haven't mentioned him yet I know he's the guy that everyone likes to say you know you'll be able to slot him in as the two see for the next 10 years not might not might well be true.

21:38But Michael Hague is playing for the University of Michigan right now and he's and he stands to play for them for for a good while longer so if if you're talking about a guy you know a college player coming up and jumping up and jumping in and giving you quality minutes on the top six in the playoffs and just assuming that that's going to happen you know you're probably barking up the wrong tree. We did most of our leaves talk I think kind of as we were discussing the trade but I do just want to get a temperature check here guys like are the leaves the playoff team this year. Yes. Yeah yeah at the very least I think they're in the wild car I don't know if they're like a one two three team but I think they are like right in the wild car. I agree with that I agree with that and I think a lot of it hinges on Matthews like if he can you know recoup some of the value that he lost over the last couple years some of the impact that he lost. You know playing in a Craig Baroube system I think I think they're a playoff team now I who knows right like you can't just assume that a guy is going to reverse reverse the curve after after the last two years that he's had which like good as they were also represented pretty serious step backwards.

22:43But if if he can resemble himself a little more. I do I like them as a wild card team it's a tough division I mean Florida Tampa to me those are locks Montreal I call a lock I don't know if you guys are there with me on that. And then you're fighting between Buffalo Ottawa Toronto I like Boston's out of it the only team you feel pretty good saying it's not going to be a playoff team in the Atlantic is Detroit. And yet only five from that division can ultimately get in so it's going to be a battle I think Toronto is certainly with the offices that they've had between adding radish between adding Marchenko. And between adding Gavin Marken has put themselves in a good spot in that battle but it's going to go wire to wire here I think they're probably fighting for a wild card to Shayna but I don't know if it's I don't think Ottawa bounce back as impossible there you get the right lean is all Mark and that's very much in play that's this is a good team in Ottawa so. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat the sweater that goes with everything the perfect pair of pants or the tea somehow always reach for first those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy and that's what Quinn's does best.

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27:13league though guys it's Carolina and it's Florida I absolutely love that the schedule makers did this for us on opening night Carolina raises the banner against the team that won the previous two Stanley cups the team that had the big splashy trade for Brady Kachak for Brady Kachak this off season is this eastern conference final preview on night one of the season China. I mean fingers crossed right and it's even better of the whole well Carolina did it without having to go through the panthers so well they didn't get in I don't think anyone can say that Florida can't say that they didn't get themselves in. Yeah, but every time they ran into each other in the place you saw how like went down so I won't be surprised if that gets thrown around a little bit too like you know the only reason the canes were able to get to the Stanley Cup finals that they didn't have to go through the panthers and I think the championship experience plus the absolute depth of that roster right like this is to the deepest teams going head to head to the best defensively structured teams to the teams that are saying we're so good. It doesn't matter who's in that for us and it could be Jacob Markstrom which I don't know how that one's going to go.

28:16I can't wait to see it. I hope we see this match up absolutely in the playoffs. I want six or seven games of it like let's go. These are the two teams the best on best it feels like heading into the season and I think it's just totally fascinating given like their recent history. I'm not talking Carolina for not having to go through Florida last season is incredible loser behavior. If you find yourself making this this goes for whether you're a Florida fan you know this goes for whether you're an NHL fan at large who's like yeah once a put an ass or a slot next to this. Get a life truly like that that is wild wild wild stuff in like they they realize early on that it was an energy conservation season for them given credit for it I'm not knocking I'm not knocking them overall but you can only beat the teams that you play against in Florida at some point around the holidays wave their right to be in that to be in that conversation that's it tries me it tries me insane.

29:25I will say the Florida panthers lineup like we talked about it with Toronto I like to have a little bit of every element on every line that's what the Florida panthers are here guys like let's just go through this top nine here for a second line one you got Alexander barcov one of the very best players in the world as your number one center and he's between Brady Kachak and Sam Reinhardt you got a 50 goal score on one side one of the meanest most physical power forwards in the league especially on the top six caliber on the other line to you got Matthew Kachak. You got Carter for Hage a guy who could score 30 to 40 goals any given year and Sam Bennett a very solid and heavy two way center they have a really important player out of the lineup right now in Brad Martian and you just slot sand as Villanis up to play with Anton Lendell and you to Luster and I'm not so sure this isn't already the best third line in the league want to see what Villanis can do obviously but Lendell and Luster Ryan is a great way to start any teams kind of dream match up line this is this is a wagon and Caroline is hallmark is the best player in the league. So it's a lot of depth so as Florida's now.

30:28Yeah I'm glad that we get to do this for a full season like it's it's it's going to be fun I'm I hope that these two teams are you know both at 100% whenever the Eastern Conference final rolls around like that'll that'll be a that'll be a fun thing like I hope I hope it happens but man I you know we'll see we'll see ACL tears are important you know it's a that's a that's a serious thing. And we saw what that team looks like without barcow I think I think Florida's last season in a lot of ways not that we needed you know proof of Alexander barcow's greatness but I think that last year for them you don't really really underline that and cemented it what a what a player he makes he makes everything about them make sense so yeah we'll see that's what the that's what the seasons for baby that's what I play games right yeah it's you know what you reminded me too last year we did our players project. And we hyped up Sam Ryan heard a lot and rightfully so like this is if you're going to give a winger the silky he should be up there but obviously barcow is the guy who's the engine but we had him too high and we got to straight up what would happen if he's your number one forward not your three or four and we talk of concept and it's again it's not enough to him is just that's there's an organizational depth chart chart for a reason they have their star players he is one of the best supporting players you're going to have he keeps up he compliments and he's going to be a good player.

31:51He keeps up he compliments those top guys but there's a big difference so it'll be really interesting to see how it looks with them fully reloaded and how many different combinations we're going to see this year too because I am curious about it like part of your he hasn't been as effective off the rush but you see that speed is going to be huge on the Bennett and if he doesn't have it you know you can't you don't really want to have the contract brothers together because of the foot speed unless you have a center who has enough tempo to keep up the maybe londale's that so I think they have a lot of weapons I think we're going to see them organized a ton but my biggest question marks just I can't stop thinking back about the goal tending situation they have a great program there I think that's really helpful unlike say I don't know the New Jersey devil is a reason Sonny Metta comes in and changes the goalie department immediate and I think he's going to be really good. Is it Jesse Granger? Jesse was a shmied guy.

32:52I had to do a lot of devil's rating when he was rotating in and getting more regular reps it was the year with like fan and check and all of that and they had a million goalies play. I had to write about that constantly and I kept watching going I feel like he should be the guy I feel like they should be playing him more so. I know it wasn't perfect and Vegas last year and that was a good defensive team but also like no goalie was perfect and Vegas last year so. Fluke here I think this is going to be the year he takes over the starters net because I or at least gets 50 50 starts I don't trust my stand on the table you. We need a hot we need a hot sake baby let's go yeah I don't know maybe he still has it. I can't meet for con is that my god no. Let's go for con let's be real and then it's a key con them will be having conversation should be in the heart and then everyone's going to measure defense and then our heads are going to explode that will be a good time. It is interesting though because I feel like having the big question in goal despite your absolute wagon of a team is kind of the Carolina hallmark and as we talk about these two teams here.

33:55I'm not so sure we don't feel a little more confident in Carolina's goal tend to going into the season than Florida strong. I like the price point more I like having Brandon bus he making that making that money and I like the organizationally what they've got yeah I still. You know chain of kind of alluded to this I think we'll see what the jersey effect is on on Jacob Marksroom it's it's not a coincidence that guys leave there in an immediately you know became. Yeah whatever increase increase or save percentage by by by 15 points or or what have you will see all that applies to to mark from yeah it makes it makes sense that they did they didn't overhaul there it is such a testament to market size here that this is the 5 p.m. game this absolute like heavy weight by. And the eight o'clock game is Rangers Bruins like two teams that like the Rangers are pretty interesting and we will talk about some of the upside and downside of the rain. You don't think the volatility is interesting Sean there's there's a range of outcomes there there's some interesting names to talk about.

34:57I guess I'm just not interested in talking about the six best team in the Metro division of all the machine well we're going to do it anyway so that what I think is interesting about the Rangers is a few things number one it's even just that's the first year and the ups and downs and the early goings of the year weren't great but once they figured out like this combination works he he cooks with Laffanier and Zabana Jed but are they going to get those versions of the season starts and I think that there's a good reason to think yes like Zabana Jed to me the research in slas year didn't get enough hype you probably would have been on my selfie ballot like in the four or five spot if he kept it up a little bit more down the stretch.

36:04But the team just kind of fell apart defensively even more than before but you know they're they're blue line looks stronger I think that's going to give them more support so if he can get you know keep playing to his strengths and leaning on his shot a little bit more that's a good thing and Laffanier we saw. You know the beginning of the year goes a little bit too close to that dump and chase style forgets about all that's made him special in his breakout year that was the high danger passing it wasn't just that he was getting teet up by penair which was a huge part of it he also was driving the bus there a lot too and if he can get back to that with a nicer blend of you know for checking and the skill game then I think pros going to be in a really strong position to succeed like he's not going to get power play one in New York this year but that line up at five on five I think could do a lot of damage but. I don't think he's at the point where it's like if the other two are struggling he can keep that sinking ship up. I if we're talking about Alexis Laffanier as the is the rangers best forward you know six months from now I think I think that that's going to build poorly for them.

37:06I think that's true you're talking about the defense though and they go get Mike Sullivan's reunited with Marcus Patterson I think we'll see if Patterson's able to be at this state of his career what I think is going to be a good thing. I think that's the first state of his career what he was kind of in his prime for Mike Sullivan with the Pittsburgh Penguins but she also have a rising Albert smits Sean Derzy comes in I think gives it a puck moving flavor to the second pair that they lacked last year. I think it's an interesting team I don't I don't have them in the playoffs but I think there is at least a path for them to stay in this race for quite a while and to turn some heads along the way maybe I'm maybe I'm too too bold there. I think that's the only thing so I'm not expecting my rangers to win just please be entertained the metros and launch. I think there'll be entertainer none of those teams are none of those teams are good. And entertaining Shane will you you're on board with me there you see this team a lot. Yeah yeah I think there'll be more entertaining but like the bar is so low because it was brutal too much last couple years so it feels like they address so many things this year like you needed more finish you need something to get the power play going again.

38:08Or if you have an you know betting on from within with players like lava and cooling and obviously per oh that's big and having healthy out in foxes huge the defense a second puck mover oh my god did they need it last year that defense was an absolute disaster but you know it was a mess of their own making and I think that's important here too it's not like okay they just had a strong off season after a fluke year like Chris Dury and the rangers dug themselves into this hole so it'll be really interesting see how they pulled themselves out. And while on paper it looks like they did enough the division is that much tougher so they have a gold tender that's going to steal them a lot of points in the standings I won't be surprised if he wins like the best not the end of the year because he's been incredible with a bad team so what can you do with an average team. It should put them in the playoff picture but literally everyone's going to be in the playoff picture in the east so it just makes it all the more difficult like I won't be surprised if it's flyers rangers duking it out for the eighth seed at the end of the year. Well we do not fill it the Philadelphia flyers in the air rangers we know they're not going to give them the Vesana just for playing really good hockey on a bad team because they they would have done it for Jeremy Swaman last year if they were going to do that so I guess if they're if you're trying to sell the 8 p.m. game it's the goalie ball between.

39:20Just turkey and Jeremy Swaman we talked about the rangers at least being entertaining the Bruins have some entertaining players right David pastor knock is entertaining as it gets there's some good storylines with James Hagen's breaking in. To the league and what he's going to bring I do feel like though like the Bruins especially as we talked earlier about that Atlantic mix of teams that we expect to be in the wild card mix the Bruins kind of seem like they leave you one more Sean. I. I'll do respect Morgan geeky right I don't like the guys is third to straight 30 old seasons he's he's works really really well with what David pastor knock like we can say that with a degree of certitude at this point I don't think you can have Morgan geeky as your second best forward in the eastern conference and expect to be in half decent shape and ultimately that's what I look at. In see with with the boss and Bruins is that is that you know they're over extended there's there's not enough talent in the lineup just yet and we're we're going to you know put a little ass or ass or is there saying like maybe maybe maybe Hagen's pops and you know I will see what happens there but man I just don't I did J. J.

40:36But Turk also a useful player clearly he was better by the end with Utah I think then then then then people then then what people saw early on but man I just don't I don't see it I don't think they have the high end talent I want I shouldn't say that they have elite players are closely players at any position but that's second layer for them is is going to be a problem and I don't think they had a quickly addressed the office season first of all I have more geeky and fantasy and I'm playing Sean this week. I'm seeing all the time for a limited upside there bring it back to the boys second of all it you know if we talk about the Rangers being volatile the Bruins might have one of the tightest bars of like potential outcomes in the league here like they're finishing somewhere between seventh and 10th in the east China. Yeah they are the ultimate wildcard every year and it's because they're elite challenges so sick like David Prashtok is one of the best goalscores in the game. He's also an elite playmaker and then you have Jeremy Swaman who's incredible so that that does a lot of the heavy lifting and I do like Charlie McVoid to I think he had a much better less season and it felt like the hype was finally like his play was finally catching up to the hype and I think he gets a lot of hype because he plays a physical style and it's different it's a throwback but I think he added what he needed to round out his play a lot more especially offensively but.

41:57There's just too many missing pieces so could they jump up and surprise everyone like they did last year absolutely Jeremy Swaman does it and posh knock not gonna. Not gonna like even blink at it and I think you know like the Territory I think that's the visions there finally because it did feel like they were kind of string from it like okay they're quickly retooling and then you know what if Rosmos Anderson's available maybe maybe they'll go after him last year and you was like why that's not it they're still missing speed on the back end though and I think that's the. That's what's gonna hold me back to you like I'm okay with the scoring depth snob great but I am very curious about the Hagen's line and very curious what geeky does and how much of the heavy list lifting posh knock can do plus obviously Paturka but the center depth lacks and that defense that foot speed that lack of foot speed absolutely killed him in the playoff size year and they didn't address it at all so it's like these two pressing areas they're like we'll just let that simmer and see what happens and that's that's gonna burn them.

42:57A.I. is transforming sales support and every customer interaction in between but too often you're sold a different A.I. agent for every job that changes with Finn Finn is a single customer agent that works across the entire customer journey. From qualifying sales leads to resolving support issues Finn works across teams carrying context from one conversation to the next meet the agent making perfect customer experiences possible at Finn dot A.I. with a discover cash back card it's payback time when you earn cash back on every day purchases activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases that's 5% cash back at different places each quarter like grocery stores on gas and at restaurants it pays to discover terms apply see discover dot com slash five for details. colon cancer is on the rise it's the second deadliest cancer and the number one cancer killer of people under 50 in the U.S. yet it remains one of the most preventable cancers if you're 45 or older and it average risk it's time to talk about screening hologuard plus is a non invasive at home collection kit that requires no prep can be completed in about 15 minutes and is 95% effective if you've been putting it off you're not alone but timely screening matters let's talk about what isn't talked about talk about.

44:23to your provider or request hologuard plus online are actually. Alright let's go to the west Chicago and Vegas are playing tonight that's one of the marquee games here and it's going to lose a little bit of the sellability when you don't have Conor but dar than the lineup. I think Chicago's got a little young sizzle to spare here Sean when you talk about Anton frontel back after a really strong finish to last year Roman cancer of entering the lineup it'll be the bow and Byron debut for the Chicago black hawks I have a confession to make she and I read the staff predictions article and everyone was roasting the poor soul who picked the black hawks as the upstart team that was me and part of it is that there was a not great selection of teams to choose from there like five or 16 from But I do think that some of the young energy Patrick canes return you could catch a little lightning in a bottle here no am I really that crazy. It's like it's funny the match up tonight Vegas is all of the two way substance in the world right in the superstars and then Chicago has had like zero substance.

45:29So you know it and then they've been betting on internal growth the last couple seasons and it didn't work and now all the sudden they're making big trades that I don't know if they're ready for it but it's like well you could get the franchise defenseman with the number four or five pick but it's like can you develop them I don't know so really complicated there but it's tough if the dart was playing the entire season I think we all be higher on them it'll be interesting see how much they can like round into form with Adam that all the sudden they get him back and it's like this spark that just energizes the top six that would be great wonderful especially if he picks up where he left off last year because the speed the play off the rush the goalscoring ability was all incredibly dynamic exactly the player we thought he'd become. And you know I'm not sure if I'm can be a number one but I think he can be very good a reasonable fact similarly I think is is is what you're up and for from him right if you can be top pair caliber I think he could be a good number two I think he's going to be an elite elite elite number two but I think you'd be a good number two that you go I see the vision and I also think Spencer night is very good but I'm just not there yet but who know if they if they show progress what do they do is the opportunity to do it.

46:38What do they do is the progress is my bigger question right like does management add on the fly and try to add reinforcements to address things on the flyers this the next summer problem like that's that could be the difference it's not that I think they are a playoff team it's that I think they're probably something like what the sharks were last year and they were in it for quite a while they were a surprise team a rising team what's the difference she and you talk about the number one defenseman how big a gap is it between bow and Byron and she theater in Vegas. I really like shape the it or I think he's so well rounded and he was so good defensively last year like he loses power play one so the offense isn't where we know it could be but he stepped up so much in potential absence to be just incredible so I think he has a lot more you know under the hood then Byron has going from right now but also. Byron hasn't had as much of a chance to show he could you know jump up to that level he's been blocked everywhere he's been and you look at it last year Buffalo like that pair was a little more running gun also you had own power playing as off side so you can try to give him the benefit of the doubt but I still think theater has more defensive weight to him and I also don't know literally like who on this blue line can be that shut down presence do they have enough of that I think the last six that I do like last a lot that's a good point but still I'm just like.

47:58I don't know I don't know there's a lot of question the injury the injury to batard the problem like that six weeks they can survive six weeks I don't think that I don't know that they're good to serve what do you mean by survive six weeks well I think early seasons especially when you have a little energy to your team you can catch some of the teams that are more talented to you before they're really into their structure I think that's going to be more true this year than in past years even because of the short pre seasons and I think you could I think if you're the younger faster team you can get off the hot starts and so. Six weeks to get counter but our back if they can be I don't know a game above 500 two games above 500 when you get but our back I think you're at least in the fight that's that was my logic and picking it I realize I clearly I was on an island I you're not you're not I can I see I didn't pick them to be the surprise seem but I but I I can I can see the logic. um Spencer nights good I think I think it's it's fair to we know that he's a viable starting gold tender if it if nothing else and the biggest reason to believe in them at least to take a step forward is that they're starting from nothing like that that is that was such a bad defensive team across the board again last season that if they can just get a little bit better and take some baby steps like it's going to show up in a very good way.

49:19In a very real way you know in the in the standing so I think assuming Bazar is is healthy when he comes back and assuming that they get some degree of growth you know from the same rinsals of the world and you know if if let you know is you know if he does if he does something that whole situation is going to hang together a whole lot better I just I'm if I'm a black ox fan I'm pretty profoundly disappointed that you know you're not you're going to have a lot of time to get out of the game. You don't have to go until no member but before you see Bazar because I think what we saw from him last season before the injury not just before he was out of the lineup that's another important to like distinction to make is that he got hurt and then try to play on it for a while and then he got shut down so it was game changer franchise level stuff from him then he got hurt then the production tell it off then he you know exited right so I think everything he showed last time.

50:19And the last season while he was healthy was was what you wanted from him I think it's disappointing that he's not going to be able to pick up you know immediately with a fresh start you know in in October here but no I do I think I think the needles pointed in in the right direction for them but man I just I would like to see them at 100% straight out of the gate for sure the centers are a problem for for sure. But like the sharks compares and like I think what's giving me pause to is like you're right there's still a gap between celebrating the dark so dark 100% I think that difference celebration going to be in conversation for best player in the world and probably like a year right like he's already in the MVP call conversation but it's the Pacific versus the central like there's no path to the top three there the Pacific division we didn't know who's going to be the third spot we didn't like we didn't know anything about the Pacific division until the last minute they didn't know anything until the last minute. Last year that's what gives me more pause about them having this like potentially magical run but could they be the Cinderella story that down the stretch they do with the flyers at last year that's a possibility even if it just puts them into like the 9 or 10 seed like that would be that meaningful step for them and I think that's a very reasonable thing to ask them to do because before you make the playoffs you usually have to have that turn the corner season just be in the mix just play a full 82 games and that would be a lot of time to get back to the game.

51:46So I think that's a really good thing to do is to have the real progress for them. Yeah, the division point is a huge one the central is a is a way different beast than the Pacific and that is that is a big differentiator there. All right on the Vegas side of this shot I mean I think we kind of know what we're getting for the Vegas Golden Knights here it's what we've been getting I mean they were good enough to go to the Stanley Cup final last year. Is there anything about the Vegas Golden Knights this year that gives you alarm bells or is this just kind of the machine goes on. It's unchanged from the regular season last year I don't I don't know about the gold tending I don't think you can say you know with a degree of certainty that the Carter hearts the guy like he had a stretch of a few decent games last spring for sure but to pencil him in you know to be a 9 or 7 gold tender for 84 games I am not I'm not there yet but I max I think ultimately you know your question kind of contain the

52:48reasons to believe it like this is we we know what we're going to get from them right this is really solid two way play across the board on four lines on on three defensive pairings yes there are questions like I'm interested in seeing how they replaced or a fail particularly on the power play interested in seeing whether Trevor Connelly is you know a relevant piece there but those are pretty small questions I think we know what we're going to get from Jack I go I think we know what we're going to get from Mitch Marner and I think you know you can count barring some kind of gold tending disaster that Vegas is going to be there at the end. All right well then let's go to the team that I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to get from this year and that's the Edmonton Oilers they're going to play against the Vancouver Connux tonight I'm pencil on that one in as a win for them. But this is a year of a fascinating experiment in Edmonton you take two of the five to seven best players in the world and Connemick David and Lee André SIDLE you take a team that does not have the depth that did when it went to back to back

53:48to back Stanley Cup finals and you give them a coach that is as combustible as any in the league in Mike Babcock a coach that they want it that they endorsed how is this going to play out Shayna. Who knows anymore. I don't know we're going to hold you to this answer to yeah yeah you know what the last couple years you look at the Oilers in the first half of the season and they can struggle they want to do them out of the flip of switch and last season it took a little bit longer for that to happen right it was like down the stretch Connemick David goes on this absolute wild tear and you're like oh okay there you are that's the playoff team that we were all expecting there's just way more wild cards in it this year because the gold turning still a wild card we have just enjoy starting game one. What is going on here and I think I'm curious to see what Devon Levi does there I think he got rushed into the savers a little bit and kind of through office development so I'm curious how he can do in what's a much different more volatile environment and also the Frederick Anderson experience like if you can be healthy if you can be the

54:51guy if you can be a stabilizer who plays even just as a 1b to Levi that would be interesting but the three goalie situation if they keep that up that's curious and then there's the Babcock of it all they are investing a lot in this season they are going for it they like and the stars are okay with it so it's not going to be with it so if they fail you have no one to blame but themselves but it's it's going to be fascinating because they on before the aside from the Babcock higher and that's that's a lot I thought that they did some pretty good work to fix up the defense I still think they need a little bit more pace on the back end and you saw the foot speed be a real issue for them you know Matias at Holmes lost a step obviously the nurse pair wasn't what it could be but I think you know moving out nurse being someone like Ryan Shay I like that I think that there's some promising signs but what I have hired like Babcock to be the guy no what I have signed Alex for rent and no and I just feel like they're taking gambles for what reason it just doesn't feel worth it to

55:55me so it's like at the end of the day they could lose the season in more ways than one there's two doors with Babcock I think one is you get twenty seventeen leaves Babcock which is a guy who builds a team with four capable lines where everybody knows their role the forwards feel you know valued to some extent you know that that's you know what you're going to get you keep shifts shorter you create an environment where you know all four forward groups are capable of you know contributing in a meaningful way and that's what Edmonton is lacked like that's why they went and hired him they want guys to keep to get Conor McDavid and he drives out of the keep their shifts short and focus on their play away from the puck in building environment where you know the ten through twelve forwards on in the in the roster feel like they have a responsibility is and and and and a job right like that's I get it that's the guy that they hope that they hired door

57:03to is and this is something that we're seeing in in the comments to to some extent here is he is he self destructs and and and and then he and then he creates an environment that isn't built on shared responsibility and a deep forward group and creates something that's much more toxic in much uglier in much more destructive because he can't act the right way like he's shown that time after time after time and if that happens they're going to self destruct and they're going to waste potentially the second to last year of the of the McDabby area like I don't know that there are two I don't know that there's any possible outcome other than those two it's either going to work really well or it's going to blow up in in a pretty spectacular way and listening to you talk about that one of the first things that that jumped into my mind was Mike

58:03Babcock probably wins the cup with the twenty three twenty four or others or maybe even the twenty four twenty five when they were right there and they had the kind of rosters that I think could actually produce those kind of four lines deep teams I just don't see that here I can't look at the lineup here and that there are guys in the lower in the lineup and that are not splashing into I think can work with Mike Babcock oh and Michael's feels like the kind of player that elevates him Josh some man's key like guys like that like you're like you can you can see what's a little Dickinson yeah there's just enough spots in here like you know I'm pulling up on daily face off right now like I don't think Mike Babcock is going to make Alex Formentin a piece right I have a hard time seeing you know Isaac Howard finding the exact right fit for himself in a and he's going to play with Conor McDavid and maybe that's enough but it's just I think that some of the teams of old that could have worked for and I just don't think that the bones are here to get it where they want to go with him and I just don't see it

59:04yeah and it could have worked in a hockey sense if he didn't act like a complete freak is which he did at the end in Toronto and in what he did and what he certainly did in his brief time with the Columbus Blue Jackets right like we're working on a two separate buckets here we're saying like Mike Babcock has been at various points in his career a hockey coach who in a hockey coach sense that could could get more out of this Euler's roster that's true but also he's you know behaved in a toxic and ridiculous way at various points and that could and that could come out till so I don't know man it's a it's a fascinating chemistry experiment that we're talking about here I don't have any questions for you guys about the Vancouver Conox but I don't want to get hold that I talked about every team plan that except the conox does any either of you have something to say about the team that I think we mostly expect is going to finish last in the NHL this year. I wonder if they'll be capable coaching I think that's a it's it yeah like last year it was bad and it was always going to be bad but the coaching it felt like actively made it worse and I think

1:00:13Malholtz has a lot more potential here also like it isn't a new look for an office so I wonder I know like Brotherford's still involved and that's you know I don't I don't know how hands off he can be but I think that could be promising it feels like if any team needed an overhaul top to bottom it's the conox so that's that's about it really right there they're they're going to know what they have in in their young players to some extent you're going to know what's you believe is you're going to know what Tom Vlander is and I don't think they were ever going to get those answers with that foot so you take that as the as the step forward here is that they're going to have a better idea of whether someone like William can be you know a true a true building block moving forward and I don't think they're going to ever have that answer with the last coaching staff. Yeah. All right good show today is there anything like let's go look in the comments here is there anything that came up not on the subjects we were talking about that merits a merits a little pull.

1:01:15There you go. There we go. That's a good. That's a bad shape or merges the number one defenseman and when the noris trophy maybe feels a bit early for me not in 2027. Yeah, I is he going to be he's already a top 10 defenseman could be top five absolutely like could he jump up and we're talking about him right behind. He's a car. I'm okay saying that especially with the Peter Dvor structure and I'm a noted Peter Dvor heater. Yeah, very much so like there's no other way to cut it but like I I think he as he matures because that's the one thing you can see on some shifts. I feel like okay he's an 18 year old as he matures physically I think it's going to catch up and the skills already there at the acumen's there he can take a team put it on on his back already and just play a million minutes and thrive. But I think I think we're going to have another year before he's he's going to he could get Noris votes but I don't think he's going to win it yet. There's also like a calibration kind of situation here where you come in and you do everything that he did and as you said there's some moments of kind of immaturity and as you're dialing that in.

1:02:23The little offense tends to go and then you got to figure out how to make it sustainable offense and so there's a little bit of trial and error on how that works out and so if this becomes a tightening year it may mean a few fewer points to so that could be part of it but I like the thought. What's that shot you see that comment is that a rooster lamp behind Sean we might need to go full score wide to show the people what do you think it looks like it. I will need to confirm nor deny. Yes what else it's an actual rooster it's not a lamp that's a living that's a living animal on my own address or that is that is from my grandmother's house. When she died and when we cleaned out her home I put my name down for one specific thing and it was that lamp. I love that I've got a crow behind me it's very similar situation that's from my grandma's house that crow right above the old ladies and birds man come on. I have two elephants. That was my grandmother's thing.

1:03:23Every old woman has to pick an animal to take to outfit their house with like it might be a might be birds it might be bees it's got it's got to be something. I never grandchild has to take that and then put it in the right set up and then and then your idiot grandson is on a podcast and people notice it. Yeah that's a way it goes. Shane I got to go Yankees in the chat too but just for the record we do not endorse that we are not approaching. Show today sorry about that Shane that is going to do it for us thanks to both of you and thank you all for watching and listening to our opening night live edition of the F1A Shots me back Wednesday with Mac and doing karate Jonas Siegel is going to discuss the Maple Leafs if list ranking the variables facing an overhaul team and I will be back with the prospect series guys for our first NHL franchise draft on Friday. We hope to see you then talk to you soon. With a Discover Cash Back Card it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases.

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