Melissa Aldana and Gonzalo Rubalcaba talk jazz

0:00This message comes from Instacart. Instacart makes grocery shopping easier, and just because you're not doing the shopping yourself doesn't mean you don't care how it's done. With Instacart shopper notes, you can add details about what you want right in the app, like extra crispy rotisserie chicken, or lettuce you'd pick yourself. Just leave a note so your shopper can get it right without having to ask. Download the Instacart app and shop today. From MPR Music, this is Alt Latino, I'm Felix González. Okay, we're in the middle of Latin Music Month, which means we're featuring 10 artists from different countries, different cultures, different styles, from throughout Latin America at the Tiny Desk. We call it El Tiny. And after the show's what we've been doing is pulling a few other artists aside to talk to them about their music, a little bit of history, and maybe even a little bit of life. This week we're talking jazz, surprise, surprise, with tenor saxophone is Melissa Aldana and Piano's Gonzalo Rualcava.

1:00["Gunsalo Rualcava"] They came in to play some songs from their recently released album Feeling, a re-examination of a Cuban music style that was popular in the 1940s to the 1960s. Melissa Aldana is originally from Chile, which honestly we rarely chat about in jazz circles. It's always fascinating to me to hear how much impact jazz has had in Latin America for decades. ["Gunsalo Rualcava"] And Gonzalo Rualcava is an icon of Cuban piano. From his earliest days in Cuba back in the 1980s, through his time here in the U.S., he has played with so many well-known jazz masters, he himself has become one of those a-list names.

2:02["Gunsalo Rualcava"] ["Gunsalo Rualcava"] We started a conversation talking about Cuba's relationship with jazz. Gonzalo, let's start with you. Let's talk a little bit about the history of jazz and Cuba and the relationship. Because they're, see, no son hermano son Primos, no? Like, what was your exposure to jazz? Juan Luen Escuchase por la primera vez. What did you first hear it? I was a little kid when I heard jazz music in Cuba. I think we had to say that Cuba has a large jazz tradition. And it has been involved with many different ways to vainculate jazz to our own style of music. It come, well, books set, it come from the beginning of the 20th century,

3:03but I think it's coming even before. Some of the Cuban composers of classical music, they were aware of jazz. And they include some codes coming from jazz music and their music. Harmonies, especially harmonies, and probably some melodies, form of melodies that came from North America. Because there was a very intense traffic or transit between Cuba and United States at that time. So my father had some very old recordings at home. I mean, Tommy Dorsey, Bob Power, also Erogadir. Well, Benny Woodman, Stan Kenton, Big Bang, Dizzy Gillespie. And I heard that when I was probably five or four or five years old,

4:07it was not the only music that we used to hear at home. I think the most valuable guide that I have from my family was done be close to any bad conception about music. But the only thing you have to find is a good level of art and music. It could be classical, it could be jazz, it could be Cuban, any kind. And this is exactly what happened at home. I was able to hear every kind of music, but jazz was really strong. Not only at home, but among the musicians that used to visit my family at home. So Peruchín, Fran Emilio. For the piano. Two very, very wonderful pianos. Legendary. Exactly. Of course, Bebo Waldez, but also many others. Before the generation that came up in the Siste, in the Siste, like Chucho or Emiliano, there were many other pianos already

5:09with very deep relationship with jazz. My experience has been that most people, music fans, like if they're thinking about Cuba, they're thinking about drums, percussion, conga, batá, timba, everything. But it's the pianist, man. It's the piano, that it's like the, the chorus on the heartbeat of the Cuban jazz scene, man. The piano is some many aspects of the music, I mean, which is not only the one-lil-dík part, but also the harmony, but also the rhythm. So something that the instrument itself allows you to convince the people that they're listening the whole of Guestra in one instrument, which is not true. But you can find the way to trick that, to the people who listen to you playing, especially when you play piano solo. That is true. You can hear the tumbao, what we call tumbao, montuno, and that already contain all the possible elements

6:13that you can hear in a big band in the Guestra commune, out of a trumpet section, out of the saxophone section, out of a rhythm section. So the piano, you are able to provoke that illusion that everything is in there. So probably that's the reason why you say that. It is classified as a percussion instrument in the orchestra. It is piano. Okay, I'm going to put you on the spot. Can you think of a pianist that you think represents what you're talking about, the rhythmic and the melodic sense? Someone from the past, someone from the one of the guys you mentioned, Pedro Chín, or can you think of a track we could play right now? Well, I had to say, my father was one of them that I really was a big reference for me. And I think he had a lot coming from Pedro Chín too. So Pedro Chín has that, I don't know how to translate that or in English.

7:15We used to say Wapedia. Wapedia is an active tool. And it's a... But at the same time, he was really elegant in his style. I mean, clean, he got everything. He was able to play around the instrument, but at the same time, he was able to develop very deep harmonies. Yeah, Pedro Chín was probably one of the guys. That was at Wajira. And there was an amazing band behind him with Guillermo Barreto and percussion. I think it was Cachau, bass. Oh my God. All stars, man. Yeah, many of them. They're really impressive. Really impressive.

8:33I think it's really good to play. It's really good to play. It's really good to play. I think it's really good to play. I think it's really good to play. Yeah, it's really good to play. He actually was also very into the concert to bring some American... American songs and play that in a very Cuban way. The 40s, the 50s. Those guys were already doing that. Mario Alza did it before in the 30s. In the 30s and the 40s. So many people that we never mentioned that they create that basement to do what we're doing right now. So we talked about the idea of... Like I said, como dije, they weren't at a monos, they were Primos,

9:33jazz and Cuban music for a long, long time. But Melissa, there is probably not as much of a connection or a tradition with jazz and chile. But what's fascinating to me is that your dad was a musician. Right? A jazz musician. So that's how you heard it. What was that like? I mean, we'll talk to us about that. Yeah. Well, my father and my grandfather. And your grandfather? Yeah, he was one of the first jazz musicians in Chile during the 50s. He used to play baritone and tenor. And he used to have like an orchestra where they play like the Miller's arrangements. He's own arrangements. He was very famous back then. He was called La Juan Ballet. And then my father is one of the known, well known, jazz musicians in Chile. He was actually part of the Monk competition when Joshua Rudman won in the early 90s. Wow. And he was a telonious monk. The telonious monk competition.

10:34A jazz competition here in the United States. Yeah. Wow. And he was one of the first South Americans that got into the semi-finals. So I grew up listening to my, well, my grandfather doing lessons at home and my father practicing at home all day long. He was willing to transcribing. So he will, well, he loved Michael Breger. That was his main guy. The tenor saxophone. Yeah. And he had like boxes and boxes of hand-greeting transcriptions. So he will memorize them and then write them down and just spend hours doing that at home. So I grew up around that since I was very young. So now what about the music of the Chile? Were you listening to that as well? Well, later on, I kind of grabbed a bottle. A jazz bubble? A jazz bubble, yeah. Thinking that like Charlie Parker was the hippas musician and the only thing going on.

11:35And that was all what my father heard. A lot of Charlie Parker, Cannonball Adderley, he loved fieldwoods and then Breger, Michael Breger, the Breger Brothers, step ahead. I remember being a kid and every Sunday watching the live concert, they did the Barcelona Jazz Festival. Yeah, it's a great video. Yeah. So that was my main education. And then when I started growing up, I started getting into some different kind of music. But I never had like a very profound connection with with Chilean music, but it was mostly with Argentinian rock from the 90s, with the Spineta, you know, Charlie Garcia. And that was the music that I listened to when I was growing up. So I think when we're all teenagers, we all want to fit in, we want to be cool with everybody else. But so you are a teenager and you're listening to the jazz all the time. What were your friends listening to? Then I remember it was techno music.

12:36That was kind of like the music other times when I was growing up. I never had a deep connection, so I don't know any bands or anything from that. And like I said, for me it was like a bubble. You know, I will wake up. My dad loved practicing and he was also very... I don't know what is the right way to say it. But yeah, he made me practice a lot when I was a kid. So that my whole day was surrounded by waking up, transcribing. Oh my god. I'm going to high school, like a normal high school. I always felt like an outsider. And then going back home and then we will spend hours just practicing together. So for the people that are listening, let's give a point of reference of the age difference. We don't have to say exact ages, but I know because I know you were born in the 60s. And Melissa, when were you born? 88. 88. Yeah.

13:36Okay, so that's the different musical references just for people who are listening because they can't tell who's who. So you're living in this jazz bubble, but people are listening to techno. And you just kept going straight through. At what point were you able to look back and say, well, you're not needed to learn more about music from Chile. Well, as a growing up, trying to... I mean, still trying to figure out my identity as a Latina playing this music. Of course, I always knew about, you know, the big references. I mean, you know, for Violeta, you know, for me, it's been more going into like the South American songbook, you know, specifically, well, the Argentina rock that I've been... To this day, I feel a very big deep connection with Spineta and all the frame of work that he has done. It's the beauty of their lyrics and how he interpreted. But later on, I'm feeling like with Ginga, you know, Metupa Squal, Caitano Veloso.

14:42So it's my musical references are more from those kind of places than actually Chile. Do you want to pick a Metupa Squal song? Yeah. So we can play a little bit so we can hear what you were listening to. Yeah. Do you have one in particular? Well, I think the leader church, which is one that we recently recorded, a song that has been in my heart for a long time, so was a kid. So which version, from the live evil album? Yeah, like the live one. Okay, so this is a version from the Miles Davis live evil album. It's called Little Church.

16:02We need to point out that there's Miles Davis on trumpet and Metupa Squal whistling. Yeah. Right. I think of one point, I think I read somewhere that Miles Davis called her Metupa Squal. The greatest living musician ever. There's something like that. He had a lot of respect for him, which is very interesting cross reference, or cross cultural reference, given that Miles Davis was really into electronic instruments, and doing rock, and doing all the other stuff, and funk, and everything, for listening to Brazilian music, a Brazilian musician like a Metupa Squal. Yeah. It was a huge reference for me growing up.

17:06Okay, we're coming back with our conversation with Gonzalo Rubalcaba and Melissa Aldonet right after this break. This message comes from progressive insurance. The mighty dollar. Once upon a time, it had a whole menu named after it. Now, no more. But one dollar a day lets you add progressive renters insurance to your auto insurance. Definitely something your younger self would roll their eyes at, but your current, adulting self appreciates. Learn more at progressive.com. Progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurers. Average premium cost based on progressive home data from 2025. Product and prices may vary by state. This message comes from Instacart. Instacart makes grocery shopping easier, and just because you're not doing the shopping yourself doesn't mean you don't care how it's done. With Instacart shopper notes, you can add details about what you want right in the app, like extra crispy rotisserie chicken, or lettuce you'd pick yourself.

18:09Just leave a note so your shopper can get it right without having to ask. Download the Instacart app and shop today. This election season you can streamline your news intake without first. Our team of reporters and editors works overnight so you can start every morning with three stories you need to know. In short episodes, 12, 14 minutes long to save you time and your sanity. Follow up first on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Tanya Mosley, co-host of Fresh Air. Each week we go beyond the headlines and dive deep into an issue like the Epstein files, the dismantling of voting rights, and the conflicts abroad. Listen to Fresh Air interviews to better understand our world. Find us on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our conversation with Melissa Aldana and Gonzalo Rubacaba. Gonzalo, as you started to develop your career,

19:10we talked to you earlier today about this amazing band that you had in Cuban the 80s group of Proyecto. When you started putting together your own bands, did you have an objective? Did you have a goal? Did you have a method? Did you have a digital? Did you have a... What was the idea? What did you want to do? The beauty of that time for decisions were to create the un-sign. They own way to make music and see that, and listen to the people to recognize, I mean, that the people who recognize you as something original, something specific, because there were a lot of bands in Cuba. Many bands in Cuba. And there was a rich moment because all of them had their own way to make music. You could recognize easily in the first bar of the music,

20:11this is this band, this is this guy, this is... And you're talking about the 1980s? Yeah, exactly. And this is probably one of the most difficult things to get it, I mean, to create your own voice. And this is what we're looking for. There were a lot of references and people that we love, and people that we follow. But at the same time, it was clear that the target was to find a space that everybody could recognize, that band, that sound, that music, the way we played, the way we create arrangements. It's not something that you get it from one day to another, or to the next one day, but it takes time. But I believe that's the process, that's the way it should be. And from there, as you started working on your music in the 80s, and then moving forward, and it comes to the United States, I think, in the 90s, maybe. Since then, you have more of a reputation of more of this straight ahead player,

21:14and playing a little bit of Cuban music a little bit. But you play with... You mentioned you play with Charlie Hayden, you play with Jack D. Sinei, you play with all of these really top-notch jazz musicians, what took your music in that direction? I don't know how to explain that. More than playing with them, I was learning from them. Wow. And the same way I learned doing this recording with Melisa, and the musicians involved in this project. So it is always like that. I mean, believing that you are the only one that are able to give something is a confused idea, is a mistake. I mean, to me, I see it in a way that I can get something from that. Even if I'm in charge of arrangement, of a music or production, or whatever, at the end, the most important is what I get from there. And I'd be very blessed having the opportunity to play with many great musicians.

22:19Not only American, Americans, but also people from Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, including many of them, Brazilians. But the Cuban elements are there in one or another way. Some of the recordings that just impressed me and moved me so much was your work with Charlie Hayden, the bass player of Charlie Hayden. Let's hear a track from that album. You have one in particular. What about you, one of here? Nocturne. That record had some of most popular boleros or Cuban ballads from the 50s and the 60s. And my comps that was not telling anybody how to play that. But let the people go through and play this music in the way they feel it. And I think this is a DNA what makes the sound and the results we have in those recordings. Do you have a particular track you want to play? In Laurilla del Mundo.

23:20I think it's a beautiful tune. This Nocturne album was... Don't you think, Melissa? It was such a major moment.

24:28Oh, yes. Beautiful. It's one of my favorites. Where were you when you first started? Here when I was very young. I remember more recently, probably before the pandemic, we were on tour. And we were with Lagelone, Pavel and Kusch. And we were doing a listening session of our favorite albums. And we hear in Laurilla del Mundo. And then it hit me. Yeah. It was recorded in Miami. This record, Charlie wanted to record this record in Miami. Because he said that he wanted to be closer to the Latin way to have that mood in Miami. And Cuban people around. And we didn't mention Breito's, which is the violin of the record. We spent three days in Miami recording that in the Crateria, which is a play with a lot of history.

25:29The BG's recorded it. Oh, BG, Jack's play. Yeah, the old Eric Lela, Eric Clapton. Very famous studio. Melissa, for the record that you have out, what was your intention in reaching out to Gonzalo to be part of this record? Is it all the history that he carries with him? In addition to the sound and just being a very nice guy. What was your intention? When you were thinking to this record, why did you think you wanted Gonzalo as part of the record? Well, it was kind of a selfish move because I just wanted to have the experience of flying with Gonzalo. But also because of nocturne. I felt like it was the moment to do a ballad record. And I was thinking to do music from the American song book. And then when we reached out to Gonzalo, he became, well, he talked to me about the feeling movement.

26:35And as I started checking out the music, we were some things I heard before, but I wasn't really familiar with the movement. I just fell in love with the music. But yeah, I mean, I was just, I was just daydreaming. I was like, with who would I love to record and get a chance to do something? And likely everything worked out. But yeah, I just knew that Gonzalo was the perfect person to be part of the project. How would you explain or define the feeling movement in Cuba in the 60s? I always said there was a refined way to other volatile tradition. All the players, composers, singers that make possible that movement that we know as a feeling, they were very connected with the popular flavor of taste of people away.

27:36But at the same time, they were very connected with the intellectual elite, I mean, poet and painters and filmmaker. And they used to make those things we call the Skargas, which is a giant. And everyone used to show the new song, the new music they were developing. So it's an elevated vision of the slow ballad, Cuban ballad music, which is what we call before boleros. And they're trying to raise the level of lyrics, but also of the harmonies and the melodies. And even the form of the music, the structure of the music. The focus was not only in the lyrics, but also in the way how to play that music. That means that a lot of the tools of musicians came up as part of that movement.

28:42And they brought a lot of jazz music, but also about European music. You can hear a lot of melodies that can be also a French or a German melody coming from the opera or any specific classic music form. That's the way I see it. Yeah. I mean, let's just kind of wrap this up a little bit. There were no saxophones in these original recordings, or very little. They went to featured instrument. So how did you imagine what did you do to place yourself in this music? Well, I went to a very, it was a deep process. The first thing was to go deeper into the lyrics, just to listen to it as much as I could. And then something that, which is a tool that my father taught me when I was a kid, and that is basically how I learn everything that I know about music, about sound, time, feel, and ideas is transcribing. So I took each song and I transcribed the melodies.

29:44I slowed them down and put attention to every single detail of how they were singing those melodies. From the length of the notes, the accents, the, I don't know what is the melisma, the vibrato, how the sang, like the time feel that they have, you know, which was a very specific way of singing them. And through the process, I could, for the first time actually understand the importance of understanding the lyrics, you know, because it's my mother language. So I could memorize them and understand in a much different way than when I learned a song from the American songbook. So it was that, just a lot of listening and then transcribing and trying to make it sound like, you know, trying to sound like Jose Antonio Mendez. And be very, the tellage about every, every single aspect of how they were singing those songs.

30:50Can you think of a song really from that era that influenced you in making this record? Yeah, one of the first ones I heard after Gonzalo suggested to check out this time period was Dimes de des Tu from Jose Antonio Mendez. And I fell in love with the melody and later on with the lyrics and the whole story behind the song.

31:58I guess the final thing I want to ask is, you know, Gonzalo just mentioned that he, you know, he chose or had an opportunity to work with Charlie Hayden and some of the great jazz musicians, because he wanted to learn. Is that part of what came out of this project of playing with Gonzalo, where you're able to, you know, absorb and learn and appreciate everything that he's been, that he represents and that what he does? Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's so many lessons that I learned in the leader time that we spent together playing that I will always carry the rest of my life, you know. And I think that that was my main, the main idea when I thought of calling Gonzalo is to really want it to be able to have that experience to become a better musician, you know, and to be able to play next to him and understand how it feels, you know. I would like to add something as well. Melissa, my counselor is a master for many reasons, not only talent, which is obvious.

33:02That because the professionalism, how responsible she is taking care with any every aspect, every detail. We didn't have much time to rehearse the music. We did it a day before going to this studio for about two and a half hours or three hours maximum in New York. And it's a music that apparently sound not complicated, but it is in the way that you have to attend to many details, sound, the way harmonies walk. And realize when I saw her playing and the rehearsal, the music that that has claimed to me that she has spent hours and hours looking very, very close to every moment, every aspect of this music. And then at the studio when we went already to record the music, we practically did a very later amount of version of each song.

34:10So it was, it is a privilege to be part of this record and I'm very glad and very thankful to be invited by Melissa to do this project together. Okay, let's go out on your version of that track, Dimezi Edistue, from the new album. Thank you both so very much and spending time with this here in the studio. It was really, it was an honor to talk to both of you. And congratulations on the tiny desk, it's really a fantastic performance and we're very, very, we're very honored that you guys came to do this. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

35:23Thanks so much to Melissa Aldana and Gonzalo Alcaba. Their album Feeling came out earlier this year and their tiny desk concert just published. So go out and check it out. You've been listening to OutLatino from MPR Music, our audio producers know what called well. Executive producer is Serriam Muhammad, Executive Director of MPR Music is Sonali Mehta. Are you a fan of jazz? You want to hear more? Don't tell Anna. Send me an email at outLatino at npr.org. You have been listening to OutLatino and Felix Contreras. Thanks for listening. This message comes from Jerry. Notice in your car insurance rate creep up even without tickets or claims. You're not alone. That's why there's just a lot of money. This message comes from Jerry. Notice in your car insurance rate creep up even without tickets or claims. You're not alone. That's why there's Jerry.

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