‘Meet Me’: Why choosing a school in St. Louis is so complicated

0:00This is St. Louis on the Air from St. Louis Public Radio. I'm Elaine Cha. St. Louis Public Radio's podcast Meet Me is about connecting across divides to find a way forward in a moment when division seems to dictate so much. Here episodes have explored the 150-year-old split between St. Louis City and County, and efforts to expand Gateway Arch National Park to East St. Louis. Our just released Meet Me episode features another huge divide in this region, School Choice. Here's STLPR's Luis Antonio Perez. On a sunny morning in September, I drove out to Ellisville, a suburban community on the western edge of St. Louis County. I came here to meet with a group of kids and their parents to walk to school. Oh my God, there isn't that frog.

1:01The street is lined with more than just flattened frogs on driveways. There's single-story ranch homes with attached garages, front yards, back yards, and no sidewalks. So you guys walk to school every day? Most of the time. Sometimes we drive halfway. Sometimes we walk all the way. And then we walk to the wheel day. What do you want a bike or a scooter? Oh nice. Well that sounds like fun too. Oh my goodness, can I get your name? What's your name? Elliott. Elliott, it's awesome and who's your mom, Elliott? I'm Elliott. Great. Elliott, I noticed you were a green a lot. Is that your favorite color? No. What's your favorite color? Black. Black. Oh, I like you already. Elliott's mom, Liz Bender, let me tag along in their walk this morning. They're joined by Liz's cousin, Chelsea, and Chelsea's three kids, Marquetta, Imogen, and Clementine. Oh, and one more.

2:02Oh, Batman. This is Batman. Oh, Batman is the puppy, huh? Hi. Are you alright? Are you alright now? Oh, he's got super calm, super calm. Oh my goodness, look at this. Liz is a social worker in the city of St. Louis. But she grew up here in West County, right alongside Chelsea. So we were only six weeks apart growing up, and we would walk down to the bus stop together. And so we grew up really close. And yeah, and so when we realized we had the opportunity to live close enough that our kids would kind of get that same bonding experience, we really wanted to do that. That's nice. So far it's working out. Liz and her family moved out here in May from the city. And being close to family is great, but there's another draw too. Ellisville is in the Rockwood School District, among the highest academically performing districts in Missouri. So moving out here means Elliott gets to go to a great school and have his cousin clean there with him.

3:06Elliott and Clementine are both in the same kindergarten. Oh, I see. Mrs. Stansy's class. What's the name? Mrs. Stansy. Mrs. Stansy, that's the name. And we know where she lives. She lives actually really close. She lives in New York. And a lot of ways it's idyllic. Neighbors know each other and parents look out for each other's kids. Oh my gosh, your outfit is so cute. I love it. That's Indian is Andrew Sinsmom. And she also said we should have those blinking stop signs. Through her work, Liz knows that not every family has the ability to live close enough. And family has the ability to make a move like this. We're lucky that we have family close by and we're lucky that we were able to make this choice. And we're really, we're really happy that we did. And she's not alone. A lot of parents in St. Louis leave the city for the county, often for the schools.

4:07Out here, the answer to the question, what high school did you go to, is usually the one that's closest to where you lived. In the city, things are more complicated. About half of the school aged kids in St. Louis do not go to St. Louis public schools. They're in charter, private, parochial schools, schools out in the county, or are homeschooled. And families who do stay in the St. Louis public school system have a variety of different options. Neighborhood schools, magnet schools, and for kids who test high enough, gifted schools. That wide range of choice comes at a cost. It creates a complex, sometimes confusing, and expensive system to support it. And now public school officials are talking about closing several schools, possibly as early as next year. So what does being a parent in St. Louis having to make these decisions for your child look like? And what happens when what's best for the community isn't what's best for your child. Meet me at the school yard.

5:09I'm Luis Antonio Perez. And this is Meet Me, a project from St. Louis public radio about connecting across divides to find a way forward. The school year is underway, and many parents in St. Louis spent several months researching, visiting, and ultimately deciding which elementary, middle, or high school to send their kids to. In this episode, we get a primer on St. Louis's complicated school landscape and get an update on significant changes being proposed for next school year. And we'll hear a conversation between three parents who each made different school choices for their kids. We'll learn about the challenges of making that decision and how they feel about what others have to say about those choices. Most kids in the St. Louis region attend the public school assigned to where they live, the kind of school that the kids in Ellisville go to.

6:15In the city of St. Louis, that's been less common for decades. About half of the school-aged kids in the city don't even go to SLPS. Their families have chosen one of the other available options. Sometimes more than one if they have multiple children. It's a lot to wrap our minds around. So I invited St. Louis public radio education reporter, Hibba Ahmed, into the studio to break it down. So would you mind sort of starting by sort of helping us understand how the St. Louis public school system works and the different options that are out there? I know that it's somewhat unique from other school systems across the country. Yeah, so I like to refer to it as like the St. Louis city schools, right? Because within the education landscape within the city, you have St. Louis public schools, which is the public school district of the city. And then you have also parochial schools, like the big Catholic school system that we have here. We have charter schools, which are these publicly funded, but independent schools that don't have elected school boards.

7:17And then we have private schools, of course, which don't always have to be religiously affiliated. And then of course there are all these other different options like home schooling or virtual schools. But thinking specifically about St. Louis public schools, because there's choices within that system as well, you have the neighborhood school. So think the school that's in your neighborhood, literally, that's the school that's on the end of your block. Then we have something called magnet schools, right? So those are schools. The magnet attracts them from other places. Right, exactly. So magnet schools are these schools that are specifically usually have some sort of like STEM related programming or arts related programming. Usually you have to enter a lottery to get a seat at that school. It's not necessarily in your neighborhood. So your kid might have to catch a bus to that school. That might be on the other side of town or you might have to get your kid there yourself. And then we have gifted magnet schools. So those are the gifted programs they're being renamed to focus schools. Those are schools that your kids have to test into, right?

8:18So kids are tested pretty early on. Usually it's an IQ related test. And they have to perform pretty highly to be able to gain admission. You can get into them later, for example, as a middle school or such, but you do have to show that you have a high enough GPA. Or maybe even for example, for the performing arts school, maybe have a portfolio to get into that high school. And that's just within the public school system. Correct. Let's explore how things got this way. The education landscape in St. Louis today was shaped in large part by two court cases. The first you've probably heard of, Brown V Board of Education. The landmark US Supreme Court decision in 1954 that ruled that segregated schools were unconstitutional. Then, two decades later, in the Del V Board of Education, parents in St. Louis argued that the school district was still running a segregated and unequal school system. As a result of both cases, St. Louis developed programs that bust thousands of students all over the region. But especially, out of the city and into St. Louis County,

9:22paired with more than a half century of population decline that continues to this day, this led to a massive drain of students out of the city public school system. And I want to make clear, you know, the number of students that are enrolled in attending schools directly correlate to the funding that a district receives, right? Every student across the country, but especially Missouri, has assigned a number that a district receives. So the less students you have, the less money you have to be able to, you know, have the resources within your schools. Over the years, schools closed, building sat empty, and charter schools expanded. Charter schools, despite being a popular choice, are controversial. Supporters say they give families more choices, especially in parts of the city where fewer options exist. Critics say they take students and the dollars that follow them away from SLPS. And it's important to note that charter schools have faced similar closures to SLPS. Then came the pandemic.

10:23Suddenly, kids were learning at the kitchen table, and parents got an up-close look at what their child school day looked like. Some decided they could do a better job themselves. And since then, a number of families in Missouri choosing homeschool has doubled. So what does this all mean for parents choosing academic pathways for their kids in St. Louis today? Hey, but would you be able to tell us a little bit about, you know, if a parent is in the process of getting their kid into the St. Louis city, what does that look like for them? So it can look different for every single family. And sometimes it's different within a family if you have multiple kids who are a school aged. So it looks like applications, there's wait lists. You might want to consider testing your kids at an early point in their life. If you're thinking about enrolling them in gifted schools, there are lotteries to get into those magnet schools. It's a lot, right? It's overwhelming. It's like the term that I hear a lot from parents, right? And the Facebook groups for the moms and the parents are always lighting up around, you know, through the summer, kind of seeking advice from other parents of what choices they made and are they happy with their choices, right?

11:35It's a lot for parents to have to think about because ultimately it may determine where you live and where you build a life, right? This system just feels so unique and we're talking about these limitations. Who does this system work for? What's the situation where someone's like, this is a great situation for me. I mean, honestly, it works for the families who have the privilege of time, energy, and resources, who have the space to be able to do the research to go visit these schools. That's something I hear a lot about from families is like, oh my god, I gotta go visit like 15 different schools to figure out what's best for my kid. And again, like, you know, parents are just trying to make the best choices for their kids. And if you have multiple kids in one household, what works for your first kid is not necessarily what's maybe going to work for your third kid. Hibba says families take pride in the schools they choose. But when your kid's school isn't down the street, that choice can impact more than where your kid spends the day. Because schools are anchors within people's lives, right? The systems they choose are these big.

12:41You're opting into this maybe for like a very long time, right? Yeah, so like the system that you choose or the path you choose, though, you don't have to be married to it the entire way through. It doesn't form, you know, how families really think about their identity here in St. Louis. That St. Louis Public Radio Education reporter Hibba Ahmed talking with Luis Antonio Perez for our latest episode of Meet Me. We need to take a break. We'll continue the episode when we come back and hear from three St. Louis area parents who made different school choices for their children. This is St. Louis on the air on St. Louis Public Radio. Support comes from Gemma, Architects, planners and designers seeking to bring joy to their clients and communities. The tales at J-E-M-A-S-T-L.

13:44Welcome back. Let's return to the latest from STLPR's podcast Meet Me. This time it's an episode about school choice. Here's host Luis Antonio Perez. Luis Bender, who we heard at the top of the episode, medicine our studio a few weeks ago for a conversation with two other parents. Ronda Smith, Branch and Aaron Raybine. Again, Liz is a social worker in the city, so she's work with school-aged kids and families for a long time. My son goes to Ellysville Elementary, which is in our neighborhood. It's a community-based public school. Ronda lives in North St. Louis. Her daughter is seven years old. And my daughter is home-schooled at home with me. And Aaron lives in South City. I have four kids and they've all taken a different educational path. My oldest daughter graduated in 2025 from a charter school. And my two middle children are a freshman and a senior in an SLPS magnet high school. And my youngest daughter is a fifth grader at a charter school on St. Louis.

14:54We started the conversation by talking about what they liked about the past they chose for their kids. Starting with Aaron, then Liz, then Ronda. There are different things that I love about each of the schools that my kids go to. My oldest daughter, her high school, gave her the ability to use her artistic abilities. She's a very creative, talented artist. And so she was able to really lean into that with that school. My middle children, I love that their school gives them lots of academic opportunities, but also the ability to lean into the arts. They're both very involved in their band program and other leadership opportunities. And then my youngest daughter, I love that she goes to a very small, warm, nurturing school. And it's a great fit for her. My son's in kindergarten, and he's only been there for three weeks, so everything's very new. But before school even started, the school was communicating a lot with us. We got emails from his teacher, lots of information, and it was very inviting.

16:00And I feel like his teacher has done a lot of things to make the transition really easy. She recorded herself reading the night before kindergarten, so we watched it in bed the night before and sprinkled special sparkle dust under his pillow so that he would sleep well for the first day of school. And they post pictures and videos and updates, and she shares the curriculum over email and everything. And what is kind of funny about that is that we did not know that we were still enrolled in a school that we had applied to in St. Louis City. There's a lot of wait lists and application processes and things like that. You have to apply to multiple ones because you don't know where you're going to get in. All of the rest of them had communicated with me. Are you taking this spot or are you not? And I said no, this one just had not. But that really brought to my attention the amount of communication that I was getting that I was really happy to be getting where he was.

17:03My experience at home schooling my daughter. Well, what I love about it is that we get to have cool mommy daughter moments throughout the day. And our learning can encompass, you know, okay, you're going to make your own toast and jam this morning. You know, what does that look like for you? So kind of seeing her independence blossom, but then also being able to be really close when she needs me. So like if she's struggling with something and she gets a little emotional, she wants a hug, I can give her one in that moment. So those are the types of things that I love about being able to homeschool my daughter. And what do you think about what Aaron and Liz are saying? There's like we get so much amazing communication and support and resources for our schools. What are you doing and all by yourself? What do you think about that? I think that is something that I do envy, right? Oh man, she didn't get a sprinkled fairy dust story from her teacher, you know what I mean? To be able to share. So some of those traditional experiences, I do wonder about her not having them in the traditional sense, but that is what was playing for me when you guys were speaking.

18:15That there are things that I know she doesn't have, you know, and it's not lost on me. School choice is sort of a tricky question and a tricky thing to deal with here in St. Louis. Why do you think that is? Why is school and school choice such a tricky question to navigate in St. Louis? I think because there's no right one right answer for how to do it for what is best, like I said earlier about different schools being good for different families or different specific students. I know that there is a lot of judgment over certain school choices. Sometimes I have felt like it's not okay to say that some of my kids have gone to charter schools because I know that they get a bad rap for various reasons and and feeling like I need to justify why our family made the choices that we did.

19:15What is happening that's making you feel like you're being judged for those choices? Well, because I know that charter schools are detrimental to the city. And I acknowledge that. I understand how they are taking away from funding, from the pool of students, and family and community support that could go into St. Louis Public Schools. And so I struggle with that decision for adding to that issue. But I also am a big supporter of St. Louis Public Schools and have two kids in that system. And I attend community meetings, I volunteer in the schools, and I am doing my best to try to help out with that system in the ways that I can. And I know that I am a big supporter of the school. I know that I am a big supporter of the school. Maybe I feel judgment from other people, but I am probably also projecting it onto myself too.

20:18But ultimately we just had to do what's best for each of those kids at that time. For example, my youngest daughter, I would have been perfectly happy sending her to our neighborhood school. Also, my youngest daughter here is a Grand School student and I have a colleague from a seven or five. And SLPS isn't able to have wiggle room on that. They have a very clear July 30 cutoff. So I'm a macro social worker, and that is living and breathing and being part of your community and working where you live and that choice of where to send my child to school was a very personal one for me, like professionally, and you know it impacted my child. So I think my day dream in my head for a very long time was that we were going to keep living

21:18in St. Louis, and my child was going to go to school in the neighborhood where we lived, and we were going to be part of this great urban community, and everything was going to be wonderful. And I think the closer that we got to it, the more I realized that it really wasn't going to look like how I wanted it to be, but also that changing my mind would open myself up to a lot of judgment from other people, either not going to a community school and choosing a charter school or maybe even a magnet school or moving out to the county. I mean all of that comes with or choosing a private school. You know this are all choices that people have really strong opinions about, and at the end of the day like you said it just came down to what was the best for me and my family at that time, and so it's hard for me to say those things out loud you know, because I feel the hurt in the pain of the people who are stuck where they are, because I see

22:23them every day with my work. And I'm sure that's true for you to run. I'm sure people, when you, if they find out you're homeschooling, they probably have all kinds of thoughts and opinions. It's insane. The elders are the worst. You know, she's have no understanding. I said, well what do you mean? You keep her at home. Yeah, we get a lot of questioning, like I'm most daily, because she's with me, right? If I'm out in the bowed or whatever or we're done with that work, we got time. We go somewhere and it's, well she's not at school. It's Wednesday at two o'clock. You know what I mean? I think that the overall, the like what popped up into my spirit when you first began to speak about it was that, you know, we know what St. Louis is. You know, at the end of the day, it is an amazing town. We've got all of these great qualities, but we also have this underlying current of inequality and racism and disrespect for one another's humanity that we don't really

23:25handle well. And so for me, this school choice conversation is a representation of that culture where it's, I don't want my kids to go to school with you or we're going to move out of that neighborhood because it's becoming to whatever fill in the blank. And now we have to have all these options for people to feel comfortable because the, you know, one school district senior kid there, Da Da Da Da, doesn't really check all the boxes for the issues that we have in this town. But yes, I do receive a lot of judgment about homeschooling her family and friends. What about her social development? And what about, well she's going to have to learn that the world is, you know, whatever, all these things. And I, yeah, I'm with them on that. I do understand all of those things, but I'm also raising in my opinion of a special human who I believe gets to speak on how she moves through this world. And I consider her opinion about those things,

24:32right? And we have discussions about what that looks like even at six and seven years old. So it's worth it for me, but it's also disheartening. And even her, she goes, I'm homeschooled. Oh, I don't code a school with anybody else. I don't, what's the name of your school? You know, like she gets irritated, right? That's all right. Hey, ease up on that attitude. But yeah, I have experienced that for sure. So a school choice, like also a political statement. Hmm, come on. Come on with it. I'm not going to dominate the conversation, but I think so. Yeah, I would agree with that. Yes, for sure. With that said, it feels like sometimes you have to make a choice that's not aligned with your, with whatever your politics are. I mean, how do you reconcile that, you know, having, feeling like believing in one thing and then having to make a different kind of choice? It's, I think from the social worker lens that I have, you know, I will say out loud that what

25:36is good for one child, one parent's choice for their one child is typically not, or very often not, what is best for all or most children in that community. And when the system is set up in such a way that the equity isn't there, it's not built into it. I think there is like, there's visible privilege and then invisible privilege with the way that the school system is set up. You know, you can, you can say, well, if that person wanted to send their kid to the same school as me, they had the same chance to complete the application on time and go get their kids physical and get all the things in order for them to do that. You know, they had the same chance that I did. I just did it and they didn't, but you're not thinking about all of the reasons why they might not have done that. They didn't know about the deadline. They don't have internet at home. They can't read English or don't, you know, have a low learning level. All of those types of things play into

26:41whether or not a child is, ends up in that school or not. And so we can tell ourselves at the end of the day that like it is, you know, quote unquote, fair, but it's not. At the end of the day, like, I work really hard in my day job on those kinds of battles. And I decided that that those battles were for my day job and my my kid's school was going to be somewhere where I could just be a piece. If you can go back, what advice would you give yourself about making this decision? I think I would just remind myself that it's okay to pivot when it's necessary and none of us are perfect. We're not going to make the perfect decision all the time. And so we need to give ourselves grace and understanding and the ability to make a change when we need to. Don't be so nervous about it. You got this. It's possible. It doesn't have to feel like

27:42overwhelmed and being crisis mode just decide what you're going to do and move forward. That's what I would tell myself instead of the how I'm going to do this. Well, maybe she needs more more people or how do I, you know, maybe I would have established a system better with me and her and how that would have worked wonders as far as like how we get to this space. Maybe we would be further with creating systems that work better for us. Nobody else is going to be affected by this, but you and your daughter and, you know, your partner, whatever the case may be. So just believing more in the power of that decision and not having to be so anxious about it. If I could go back, I often give other people advice that I should really take myself and I am really grateful to be here for this conversation because I feel like you both reminded me that I can affect change in different ways. I don't have to be so hard on myself about one choice and I made about one child that I still have the power to help in many other ways and also

28:51influence other people to do the same and maybe they'll think I'm a hypocrite and maybe they won't. I don't care. I can just be myself and that's okay. I'm not trying to make other people change their minds or do anything. I'm just being myself. And doing what's best for your family? Yeah. Aaron Raybine, Liz Bender and Randa Smith-Brench are three St. Louis area parents who joined us a few weeks ago to talk about how they chose schools for their kids. You're listening to the latest episode of STLPR's podcast Meet Me. When we come back host Luis Antonio Perez will visit again with STLPR educational reporter Heber Ahmed to explain a new proposal from St. Louis Public Schools that aims to make big changes to the entire system. This is St. Louis on the air on St. Louis Public Radio.

30:03Hi, I'm Laura Hamden and my colleague Jessica Rogan and I are your daily host of the Gateway newsletter. We meet with the editors and the STLPR newsroom every week day to bring you the topical stories of the day in a quick and easy six minute read by 6 a.m. In an age of overwhelm, it's a refreshing thoughtful take on the news day if we do say so ourselves. Find two in your daily news habit with the Gateway newsletter. Subscribe at STLPR.org slash gateway. Welcome back. Let's return to the podcast Meet Me's latest episode which tackles one of the biggest divides in the region school choice. Once again, here's host Luis Antonio Perez. Now an update about St. Louis Public Schools.

31:07Next year, the 2027 28th school year SLPS may undergo changes that will have a major impact on the entire system and the school options we just talked about. The district has proposed closing more than a dozen schools, converting about 10 magnet schools into neighborhood schools, and making major cuts to school transportation. The plan is still not approved. The school board is scheduled to vote on the proposal in November, but district leaders say something has to change because SLPS is facing an unsustainable multi-million dollar budget deficit. A big problem that can only be addressed with big changes. So we're back with Education Reporter Hibba Ahmed to walk us through the proposed changes. So you've been doing a lot of reporting about this in the last few weeks and over the summer. And there's some big changes afoot. Yeah, I mean this is the biggest change that we've seen. I've heard sources say in like since desegregation. Yeah, the closures will

32:09happen across the city. They're not concentrated necessarily in one neighborhood or another. They go into effect next year. And one thing I do really want to know and make sure I clarify for any listeners, the gifted schools at this point are not on the table, meaning that they will not be impacted by these closures, but you know, that can always change. Is it purely money? Is that the driver here? Like they're closing, they're wanting to close schools and reduce busing purely because of money. So the budget is absolutely a problem, right? The district is facing a projected $41 million dollar deficit for this school year and is likely to face similar deficits over the coming years. So much so that the Missouri State Auditors told the district that if it continues on this path for the next few years, it will run out of money by this 2030-2031 school year. But, you know, the budget is one piece of this. These schools, I'm sure you've driven by them, Luis. They're beautiful. They're grand. They're very, very old. And they were built for student populations that were, you know, upwards of hundreds and hundreds of students, whereas they just

33:13don't have those students there anymore, right? We have seen declining enrollment over decades because of declining birth rates of, you know, outward migration from the city out into the county, into St. Charles County. So these are massive schools. They cost a lot to upkeep. And it just doesn't match the reality of the student enrollment that the district has today. So, Hibba, for parents who maybe are not in the St. Louis Public School system, why should they care? Why should it matter to them what's going on with St. Louis Public Schools? Population laws and declining enrollment and possible school closures or tightening budgets is not unique to St. Louis City. But, you know, the hollowing out of the public school system within the city does directly impact the future of the city, right? Why would I move to St. Louis City if there is no thriving public school system here, right? What if I'm a parent who can't afford to send my kid to private school or what if I don't have the time to figure out the charter school

34:16system or whatever? And I just want to send my kid to SLPS. SLPS doesn't exist in whatever capacity that's going to deter me from living in the city. And that's obviously top of mind for everyone right now. So it's been interesting to see how SLPS officials, Mayor Cara Spenser, even state education officials say, we need SLPS to thrive, right? We need you guys to exist because St. Louis is incredibly important not just to the region but to the state of Missouri. So there's a lot of factors going into this proposal to close. Well, I guess initially it was to close 20 schools. Yeah. And it's gone down to 14 schools. Right. So I want to ask you a little bit about that. So I imagine that closing schools is never going to be popular. And I would venture to guess that there's been opposition to these closing schools. What does that look like? What have folks who are against closing schools? What are they saying? And what kind of questions are they asking? Yeah, I mean, you know, nobody wants to see their kids school close. No teacher who has invested

35:19their time and their career into one school. Like they don't want to see that close. Right. So it's there there's like an emotional piece to it. Right. Schools are anchors within communities. Nobody wants to see that shut down. And community members, right? Neighbors don't want to see that because if a school building shuts down, there is a concern that that building will become vacant, which is on track. That has happened over time. Again, if you drive around the city, you will see a lot of these vacant schools that unfortunately have kind of started to fall apart over the years. But yet, some more of the pushback, you know, is that people don't really understand how the district arrived at these 14 schools for closure and then around the 10 that are supposed to be converted to neighborhood schools. And they've been demanding that the district provide, you know, their methodology and their explanation for like how they landed at these schools. The district says, look, it is truly about the fact that these school buildings are aging. We don't have enough kids to fill them. It's very costly to maintain them. And we have to adjust and we have to cut back on staffing and transportation costs to stabilize our district

36:22financially and operationally in order to still exist in the future. Well, these cuts solve the problem that exists. I mean, if the issue is buildings and money, and they're just sort of reducing operational capacity, it feels like it would. But is there any way to know? So there are different opinions on this. So the literal shutting down of building is not always the most cost effective thing. It's the staff cuts that happen, right? If you have less schools, you don't need as many principals, right? You may not need as many school counselors. You may not need as many custodians. So those are cost saving measures. By limiting the magnet school structure, right? So you're asking families to send their kids to the school that is closest to them, the bus route becomes shorter, right? They're less buses moving all across the city. So that cost comes down. But the challenge is that it's also going to cost

37:24a lot of money to merge some of these schools, right? So if a school closes, and there's 100 kids of the school, those 100 kids have to go somewhere else. And now that new school needs to be retrofitted with new desks and new configurations and new supplies and all of that all cost money. So it's not completely clear yet exactly how much money this is going to save the district. Hopefully we'll have a better idea in the coming months. And I just want to, for comparison sake, Hazelwood School District, Benworth County, has a similar student enrollment size, and they have half the number of buildings that SLPS has. So SLPS has 62 schools. So that's, I think, where SLPS wants to get to. Maybe it needs to get to to become as financially efficient as possible. But it's not going to happen all in one wave. We might see more closures in the years to come. Wow. You're out there. You're reporting. You're talking to everyone, talking to not just the school board folks and teachers, but you're also talking to families. What are families saying

38:27their concerns are? What their hopes are for the St. Louis Public School system? You know, families say that they understand the reality that the district is facing. They see it in their neighborhoods, right? Like, they're just are not as many kids. They're not as many people as their ones were. So they understand that explanation. But again, they just don't really understand why certain schools were chosen for closures. So for example, one school that I've spent some time at is Shenandoah Elementary School, which is in the Tower Grove East neighborhood. And that's this elementary school that enrolls around 200 students. And they're pretty much at capacity, right? When I was there on the first day of school, I think they were expecting around 175. And it's a robust environment. People love that school. I mean, I watched parents light up as they dropped their kids off on the first day. And as I was talking with them as after they came out from dropping their kid off, they were like, you know, the school is for my kid, but it's also for me. You don't know because their school principal would like come outside and like,

39:30knows every kid by name and mom and dad and grandma by name. And like, you know, the fact that some folks can like walk to school. And like I talked to a couple of moms who were like, I don't have a car. And this is the closest school to me. And I know that my child is safe and is getting a robust education here. Please don't close this school because it would just be devastating to me and my family and my life because it really is the center of their community. And is it one of the schools that's been slated to be closed? Yeah. Wow. And it's still on the list in the 14. Wow. The St. Louis Public School Board is scheduled to vote on the plan on November 10. They push the vote back to that day in order to gather more community feedback. But that's thrown application season into flux. Parents are in the midst of trying to figure out where their kids may go to school next year without knowing if the school will even be open. And even if the school is open, will it survive the next round of cuts? With all the uncertainty, the question for parents

40:34do we stay in SLPS becomes even more difficult to answer. Should they look into charter or private schools in the city like Aaron did for some of her kids? Do they move out to the county like Liz? Or do they bring their kids home like Ronda? Choosing a school for your kid is one of those decisions that sends a signal. Whether you mean to or not, people read it as a statement about how you feel about education, about institutions, about neighborhoods, about other people's kids, about your own kids. That doesn't seem fair, but it doesn't seem wrong either. I'm still figuring out where the lines are between what we believe, what we fight for, and what we decide is best for our families. And what makes it harder is that I know everyone wants the same thing. What's best for their kid? What I don't know is how you get that for one kid, and all the rest of the kids too, at the same time. But we've got to keep trying.

41:35For the latest news on St. Louis City and county schools and more of Hibbler's coverage, visit our website at stlpr.org slash education. That's Louis Santonio Perez with our latest episode of Meet Me, STLPR's podcast about connecting across divides to find a way forward in a moment when division seems to dictate so much. For more episodes, visit stlpr.org slash meetme or search for meetme wherever you get your podcasts. This episode was hosted, produced, written and mixed by Louis Santonio Perez with editing by Brian Heffernan and Alex Hoyer, who also engineered our in-studio conversations,

42:37along with Danny Wysentowski, additional editorial support from Hibba Ahmed. Meetme's engagement producer is producer Paula Rodriguez, Laura Handen is stlpr's engagement editor. Brian Heffernan is Meet Me's executive producer, theme music by Cuddo and friends. Special thanks to Rukia Anthony. Grand support comes from the James S. McDonald Foundation. St. Louis on the air is a production of St. Louis Public Radio. Do you find yourself regularly listening to episodes of St. Louis on the air? Suggest us to a friend you think might enjoy our conversations. And leave a serve you in rating on Apple podcasts on the App Store. It's the simplest way to help people discover our show. Thanks. St. Louis Public Radio is a member supported service of the University of Missouri, St. Louis.