Long Run 270 - Ashley Paulson

0:00Alright you guys it's gonna be a long run episode of me and Ashley Paulson. If you don't know who she is, which some of you might not, she's got the 100 mile world record for the fastest female hunter-miler and she's been around the sport for a while. She's a marathon or she's a triathlete. She's four kids. She lives in Utah. I'm just telling you the kind of things that I've figured out about her, you know, in the ramp up to this. And I've reached out to her maybe like four years ago. This has been back and forth getting this thing scheduled, not because of anyone's fault, just, you know, delay and picking it up again, whatever. And I did meet her personally once at Jackpot and her husband, they were delightful. And I said, I have to do a podcast with you guys. And then finally it just happened. It's finally happened. So we're gonna talk. It's gonna be fun. And this isn't brought to you by anybody. And let's just do it. Let's just talk to Ashley Paulson. No sponsors

1:00that are there to go, man. Let me tell you. It makes my life easier. Enough to argue about copy or when am I gonna do it or do an awkward transition. She's a bad water champ. It's not a bad water champ. I'm excited. It's gonna be fun. I really want to get to know her. How are you? I am so good. How are you? Thank you for being so flexible on my time. Well, thank you. Well, what service I get? Well, we're gonna for like four years. So I figured we can be flexible at this point because I had reached out to you. And then I think I dropped the ball and then I met you guys at the jackpot. That was like two years ago. Yes. Okay. So yes, 15 minutes was no big deal when it's been a few years. Yeah. I forgot about that actually. Yeah. No. That's great. And we're a world casual over here too. It's

2:03more about getting to know people. And you know, people they see you on the internet. There's this lady with the red with the pink hair. She's crazy. She's doing all this crazy stuff. And they're probably like, like, who is this woman? You know, and you know, all they have to go on so far is that I met you once and I thought that you guys were both pretty delightful. So, you know, we're gonna we're gonna learn more about you today. I love it. Well, good. Did you stay in touch with those people you did the the seven continents with? Are you still friends with them? Oh, yes. We're like, especially the girls we're on a group chat. Like, you know, we don't communicate a ton, but like, you know, every few weeks, we're like, Hey, how's everybody doing and kind of check in. So we haven't seen each other since then. Um, all together, but here and there, we'd get little, you know, I've gone out to New York and done lunch with backs a few times and, you know, so it's little meetups as we can. But there's always going to be a bond forever for sure. Well, Shari and the machine is local to here. And she's actually done a show here in the studio

3:04with me and she's been. Yeah. So I love her. No, she did promise me last week, actually. I think it was Sunday. So just whatever it's day is she's go. She promised me she'd come visit me this summer or this winter. Well, I think that she would be a kick ass mountain trail runner. Oh, she would. She whatever she puts her mind to she is like skiing that fearless going down the mountain and then head up to the speed. I mean, kind of we would be. Yeah, she would be amazing. Yep. She should. And you keep telling her, come out. We've got trails for days and she stays in Chicago. Yeah. Well, if I run into her, I'm definitely encourage her to go out there. But I think she should make that jump. Like you put her in like a mountain 50k or something like speed goat. She probably crushed that shit. Oh, she would absolutely, absolutely. So you just got back. You're on a run and then you just got done doing the big foot 200. Yes. And now how's that treating you? Are you beat up from that or? I feel really good right now. I was pretty beat up during the

4:06race. I don't know if you saw any of the footage. I did. But I took him. I was feeling great. Like I was two and a half weeks off of bad water. So I honestly, it was. We're rolling the dice by showing up to that race. And like, I'm like, I don't need to win. I just want to kind of get my goal time to like finish the triple crown in a recent time, right? And I felt way better than I thought I would. Like even the day before, I was like, I'm still feeling my quads from bad water to a half weeks ago. How am I going to run 200 miles? But things were so good. And the mile, like, I think is 150, 160 is 200 miles, right? I took a fall and I eject my back. And I could, my legs felt fine. My lungs felt fine. I felt like my eating was good. But I was stuck. I was stuck. So it was a really brutal, final 40, 50 miles. But that's part of it. That's part of it. We're going to stay on your two feet, right? So and when I see you doing that, it's interesting to me because you're one of these people that when I think of you as someone who does fast

5:11marathons, fast and flat treadmill, you're doing goofy treadmill stuff, you know, and then you go do the big foot, which is like gnarly mountain. So do you have a preferred surface? I'm definitely better at a flatter definitely. I'm really, I want to be better on trails. But I'm obviously like, I'm we're all who doesn't trip. You saw the girl that just won UTMB. She tripped for last three miles, you know? And as much as I was like so sad to see her fall is like, well, I'm not the only one. But I'm definitely better on the flats. But I'm also great climber. It's just the descending. I'm not so great at going downhill. So I need to practice that. But my preference is hard to say because I love them all. But it is nice to know that I can crush it uphill. But yeah, the downhill, I kind of and I hold, hold back at. But you know,

6:13I love it all. It's like trying to shoot your favorite kid. They're also different. They're also fun. They're also challenging. And they all bring you different life. Do you dream of doing things like UTMB and mountain racers or when you dream of doing things in the future? Is it, you know, setting more world records or doing more, you know, straight up running type activities? You know, I, I've never really had UTMB in my mind. Like, it was fun to watch it this year a little bit. I don't follow along super close. I'm really kind of weird that way. And less like I know somebody like personally doing it. I don't really care. Like to, I'm like, oh, don't tell anybody about it. I won't. Okay, it makes me feel better because some people are like, wait, this is your sport. You're not like all in. Some people watch the coconut for fucking five days straight. And I don't get it. Like, I can't do it. I can't either. And I'm just like, yeah, I'll talk like chime in or look at social media or whatever. But it's not, it's one of those things that I, I want to be out running myself. I don't want to be watching it. Just like any other sport. I

7:16don't want to watch sports. I want to, I want to go play. And so it's not really something that I'm like, I've got to be to UTMB and other world records. Like, that didn't even cross my mind until just like a few years ago. So it wasn't, it's not why I started running. I started running because it made me feel like I had almost purpose and like pushing myself and be like, wow, even this little girl that like had no confidence, I can do this hard thing. And I felt those little mini wins. And it helped build my confidence. So I'm like, I want to do this forever and share that love. Not just, it's not about the world records. It's not about always like doing that. But yeah, I want to have goals too. Absolutely. But I don't want it to be all focused on that forever. A couple of things a year maybe this year's been bigger to push myself with the different goals and stuff. But I don't think I'll do a bigger year like this again just because I want to

8:18remember why I do this. And it's not just about the medals or the winning or I like to go out to like random races and run with friends. I don't care about the ultra sign-up score is going to be lower because I'm not winning. That's not why I do it. Do I want to do something like that? Do these, do these things that you've done like this, you know, like the Southern continents and now the Triple Crown are these things that just kind of like come to you like in the upcoming season and it sounds good and you do it or these things that you've calculated said, I want to get this stuff done in my career. I know it's kind of just I'm so random. Okay. I take battle that way. I'm very ADHD like this sounds fun. Let's do it. And and then we go and try to send it. And then like most of my races even like my first 100-mile I was like I think it was 10 days before I'm like I've got nothing to do next weekend. I want to see what 100 miles feels like. And my first like I think

9:19three or four hundredths were that same way. It was nothing planned. It was all within a week or two notice and yeah and that's where and that's how I tick because planning it all out this year we've planned because it's such a big year and it's the first time I've ever done anything like this. And it's been fun but I wouldn't want to do that forever. I wouldn't want to plan it like this forever because I like the spontaneous. I'm very last minute like yeah I want to do that race too and and go be with friends or hey maybe I could break you know try on or of course record I feel really great right now and try or you know just random I like the random and the last minute it's how I tick best. Let's go back to you know you said your first marathon it says 19 that that's right for a minute. Okay and you were a different person then it seems like you're describing someone that wasn't super confident and super you know you were trying to find yourself maybe tell me a little

10:20bit about that person like what was it that made you find yourself at age 19 running a marathon. Yeah I mean I didn't grow up with very much confidence and just I was always a happy happy girl but I was not confident in who I was I didn't feel like I was good at anything I didn't feel like there was anything like really special about me and I remember when I was watching my dad run his very first marathon I was six years old I distinctly remember exactly where we were on this course and everything and I saw this look on my dad's face and it was he looked miserable. He's at mile 18 at the Desiree News Marathon and I was like I wonder like he's just deciding to do this like why why is he putting himself through that and kind of like why do I want to see what that feels like and that's where the seed was planted just by like seeing him that example

11:23of him doing that marathon and then consistently running day and day out we were always very active as a family movement was just something that we did and never it was just I thought it was part of everyone's life you know so when I decided to do my first marathon I remember somebody close to me being like are you are you sure like that's hard are you sure you can do that and I was like actually I'm not I'm not sure but like why shouldn't I try and having the confidence for me at that time to be like why shouldn't I try was a big step for me and so I did I signed up for my first marathon St George marathon 26 years ago oh my gosh 26 years ago and ran it with my sister and I was like oh my gosh even this little girl that has no idea what she's doing can do something so hard and I remember my dad being like my girls a runner and he was proud of me so it kind of made

12:27me like stand out just a little bit different to him and every girl wants to have their dad proud of them right who doesn't right or every girl guy whatever and just little things like that and like it helped build my confidence in the way of if I put in the time if I put in the effort if I decide why couldn't I do this why you know and so we did and then you know I took the next year off because I was pregnant with twins from running a marathon but then after that I run a marathon at least once or twice or a year you know so I've done 140 some on marathon since then and I I love it I love it love it not because of the awards not because of some of the records or you know I've been able to go to the Olympic trials for marathon which was amazing I would have never thought about but it's like I look at that that little girl that I was and I just want to like be like be excited to grow up be excited to like to experience different things

13:33and challenge yourself because you are going to do amazing things it's going to give me emotional because it's like it's not amazing just for me it's it's what has what I hear from other people when they see my love for running because this wasn't what I planned I wasn't planning to to be anything to anybody but I'm like you make me want to run you make me want to move and I'm like I do but they're like you you're radiating this energy and and I didn't ever think it was going to be something like that or you know records or professional or nothing like that and so I'm still looking back and being like wow and I can't go back to that little girl but I can go to other little girls and be like be excited for the the person you can be and push yourself challenge yourself believe in yourself enough to try and be willing to put yourself out there enough to be like you know I'm going to I will be better for trying this because I didn't I didn't think I'd be

14:40I didn't think about as a kid or even 10 years ago where I am today so I'm going to completely different person in so many aspects as a as a way as a as a mother as an athlete and it's helped develop me in a different way that you know I don't know how else I could have developed into the the person I am without these challenges of running and how it's giving me the confidence to go out there and inspire others so we have I put on a hundred mile race here in Wisconsin and back of the buckle there's an inscription it says you need a lot of cool people on the trail one of them is you you know and it sounds like from your story that like that marathon changed you that you when it was over you you kind of became a different person was it immediate or is this something that happened the more that you ran because it I mean it sounds like you started that race one person you ended that race a different person yeah definitely was a lot of that day there was definitely progress throughout the years but a lot that day because I felt so good and I was running with my

15:44sister she's my best friend like I was engaged to like to marry like my best friend my soulmate all of the things like and so like to be all of that in one and to feel so good I think was nothing crazy fast I think we did a 403 or something and she was my best friend my sister was so proud of me my dad was proud my future husband was there and I'm like wow this could this this is where it's out for me this is where it's at and it it has not died since so I want to keep that same love and passion forever did you immediately think I want to do more of this I'm do more of these oh yes oh a thousand percent it was it was hard it was hard but I I felt pretty good the entire time so in that way that it wasn't like one and done and then months later I'm like maybe I'll do another one it was like I can't wait for more just I can't wait for more of this yet so then did you become one

16:47of those like serial marathon people that's doing like you know five six marathons every year or you know like what was your progression into the sport yeah no it wasn't that quite that crazy so the next year like I said I was pregnant I got pregnant with my twins and and so I took that I didn't run a marathon that year every year from then I've run at least one but at that time I was Matt was in school my husband was in school I had these twin babies and marathon was expensive it was a lot like we didn't have family like at all to like so to stay at the time what was it made hundred hundred twenty five dollars for a run I couldn't justify that and so at the time I would maybe do one maybe trickle into a year and so St. George I lived here so it happened to be St. George and most of the time and I was teaching fitness classes so I feel like that helped build my base I go out and teach through four classes a day you know I was trying to like make

17:54and meet well that was going to school and so I actually give that more credit to building my body machine just teaching classes because I had to show up with a smile on my face I'd be like I'm sore I'm so tired but guess what these guys have one hour and this is their hour and I need to give them the best workout possible and then after like years and years of that when Matt and I kind of like you know I got through grad school and all that stuff and kind of was had a little bit more money to stand I'm like I'd be really amazing to run a few more marathons a year and so I didn't really start running a lot of marathons a year until like after quite 2010 2012 and then it became like oh my gosh races were offering me free entries and stuff I wasn't like crazy fast but I was doing okay so I could kind of get out there and I'm loud and so they're like hey just talk about a race and well you know so that helped me a lot is a new athlete

18:55because we still don't have a lot of means to spend on races and so yeah like reaching out to races being like hey I'll do this trail do this like I just wanted to be a part of the feeling it wasn't even like okay I need a Boston I need this and you know my first time qualifying for Boston I think go I couldn't afford it but it's great to know I qualified and so yeah it was it was years and years of maybe doing one or two a year and then one 2010 is when I was able to just be like oh my gosh marathon marathon marathon and then I started racing Iron Man and and so you know people giving me entries which for me was a huge gift and a huge deal it's just so grateful for all of that because it gave me more experience. Do you recall like when it do you recall when you became like maybe your fitness kind of jumped to the point where now you're being competitive now you're you know a content because you're saying you know 403 that I mean

19:57that's a great first marathon time I mean for for me that and I was like five you know 20 or something but you know at some point you know you you must have made a jump you know when was that where you started getting legit fast you know it's hard to say because my second marathon I remember a qualify for Boston I remember it was like I was like super excited to qualify but it was able to go and then I'm like oh maybe I could get a little faster a little faster and I kind of hovered around that 320 area for a while but I didn't know about training I would just kind of go run and then teach my fitness classes and then go you know I didn't I didn't fuel correctly I didn't do any of that but I was like oh maybe but I I believe I tried for a sub three marathon like trained for it like before my fourth kid and I I finally got the after three attempts of really trying I'd get like a three oh one or three hours and 20 seconds and that just stings right I'm like oh one

21:02of these days I'm gonna get a sub three you know like can I though and and then I finally got it at I believe it was St George actually St George Marathon and it was such a big deal for me and that was like 2011 2012 I believe getting that sub three and then I got pregnant with Max and my fourth kid and I was able to I think I did actually I did 19 races as well as pregnant with Max so you know and that's like I was kind of doing the influencer thing at the time that the races would offer me I was not running fast but I would post about it and and then actually after I had Max about six months after I hired a coach right away and I was like I want to see what I could do in the triathlon world I was racing I'd race a few and I actually earned my pro card as a triathlete at six months it's seven months after I had Max which I never saw I'd get there I wanted to get

22:07to Kona that was you know get to the world championships and that's it and my coach called me like you know what you did at this race ash and I was like yeah I'm so excited he's like no you actually I mean you did but you actually earned your pro card if you want to take it and I was like no no there that's a fluke that's a fluke I just want to go to Kona and he's like okay and then the next race I did I actually beat a bunch of the pros and my husband was like listen you're hobby's not cheap he's like you got to need a two thousand dollars here and he's like it's not like you need to do it for that but he's like why not step into that field and see what you're capable of race like race against the best and push yourself what does that mean I don't I don't understand the pro card like so because I don't have a lot of triathlon experience but like what's the difference in what what happens when you get your pro card what does that mean so you have to earn it you have to like

23:10there's a few different ways to earn it one of the ways and my way of earning it was beating being one or two amongst all the amateurs it has to be a pro race it can't just be any iron man there has to it has to be a qualifying race so there has to be pros at the race and so if you're amateur one or two out of all the age groups not just your age group you are now qualified as a pro and you can you can claim that if you want and so I got second at one of that he called me the very first one he called me I have second age grouper and the next one I was first by like 45 minutes and beat several of the pros and I was blown away because I'm like I'm just I love it I'm out there with sparkle like tattoos you know like my number I'm glitter I'm like smiling and waving and you know I'm having fun and the pros did not look like they were happy try to fill these do not look like they're having fun period I've never seen triathletes look

24:12like they're having fun oh you've never seen me race well that's different yeah I know it but and and I didn't think so even that's how I saw them and I didn't want to be that person because I want to do this forever this is not her for now thing and I didn't want to lose that sense of passion but my husband's like don't change yourself at all continue racing how you are it's clearly working but imagine you know like hey that race could have made a few thousand dollars plus you'd get free entries to I imagine because those aren't cheap those are like $800 $900 I don't even know they are now then a few years but I'm so glad he had that conversation with me and decided to like push me to take that next step because it did it I was throwing a line with the best of the best I was never like number one as a triathlete I'd usually be in the hot top 10 you know in the Ironman distance not half I'm an Ironman girl but you know one time I got second

25:13place I never won but it pushed me to the next level for sure and that was in 2015 when I earned my pro card so I did that for seven eight years um are you a pro forever then when you get that pro card no you have to re qualify every few years so you know just you have to make sure you're so ranking and stuff and I have it race triathlon for three years so I obviously don't have that pro card anymore which category do you like the most and which category do you like the least in the triathlon running is my most okay thousand percent and I was always the slowest probably one of the slowest pro swimmers out there I was fine for an age grouper but for the pros oh my gosh yeah but I love the challenge of like the difference the swim the bike the run um and I'm I'm sure I'll do an Ironman again did you go to coma I did yeah what was that was it did it

26:13about your expectations yeah absolutely it did it did it was amazing so we earned the quote kona and then we earned you know going out and racing professionally which was a whole different world for me I felt like I just did the long-mer because I I didn't so many of them are like I just wanted this for so long and I'm like I just like I'm I'm here do I deserve to be here was it a fluke was it you know but it wasn't a fluke I earned it I worked hard I kept showing up even though that wasn't a goal it was all that consistent effort that I put in um it got me there and is that it then in the ultra or the I'm sorry in the triathlon world is that the that's the peak the best thing that you can get to is go to kona okay yes yes yes as a pro yeah so it was yeah is that why do you pivot trail in ultra because there's nothing left to do here

27:13or what what causes that transition no I thought I'd still be racing professionally as a triathlete for sure till and like I said I'm like I'm not giving this up till I'm like because there was some pros that are still racing like strong in there late 40s 50s I'm like that's gonna be me um but that covid hit um covid hit and what happens to races races are getting shut down left and right I um you know is my race gonna happen is it not and I remember being like in such incredible like so like I was ready to crush this race like this triathlon my swim was on my running was like stronger than ever and they can't slow it 10 days before and I was like no because they can cancel the race but what am I gonna do this fitness you know like I'm not being I'm ready to go and I hadn't been on a trail for six months probably but the first I'd ever gone on a trail was a 50 mile race I done the snow peaks 50 and it was six months or so before maybe five

28:18and I was like well let's see if there's anything happening and there happened to be a 100 mile or happening 10 days from then and they don't want canceling the altruz because excuse me in that during covid altruz are small enough that they could keep altruz going and so they hadn't canceled this altru and I was like I wonder you know I can run I can go all day I done a double iron man I'm like but I don't know what a mountainous run would be like so I contacted the bear 100 and the race director and I was like you know and he's like yeah come in like it was full but he's kind of like hey I wonder what this triathlete can do probably I don't know who why he said yes but he said yes and he loved me into his race and and I think it kind of took the ultra world like some of the world like caught him off guard because I'm like what is this girl doing

29:20this triathlete or she's in the studio with i fit like why is she out here she does not be long here and I had people straight up tell me I do not belong there and and so I'm like why can't why I would welcome you like in any anybody like you want to change it up like change it up but when you say that though like was this something people did something that you felt something like because I think of ultra running you know I mean and trust me I stand at the finish line and I've hogged like fucking 10,000 ultra runners in my life you know and they seem to be the most accepting you know like the the last person finishes and everyone's hogging and like what what happened that made you feel that way because it it's so bizarre to me that you know and I get there's one part that I get because I know a lot of elite runners and elite women runners and sometimes elite women show up and then the other women who are winning are like who the fuck is this lady what is she doing here and they don't like it and and I've seen that dynamic but it sounds like you're talking about a general

30:23feeling of not being welcome like what can you just describe what what was it yeah and I actually didn't really know that things were happening but apparently like as the race is going you can make notes to runners and like what's happening I didn't know enough about the ultra running world but you can send a message to a runner or you can just kind of keep tabs like this is all online like I'm the tracking thing yeah yeah and apparently there was just like here's the thing here's the thing there's so much support but negative always tends to be louder than the positive unfortunately and so when maybe five people are being like what is this girl doing who is she why would like why is this girl from like an iFit studio that's always dulled up on stage coming out to this dirty trail world what right does she have or she's a triathlete like and it was really confusing to me as well and then I remember somebody saying on course like I hope you're not like reading into all

31:29of these negative comments and I had no idea I know I was like I'm running I don't have service I'm not checking and I was like what are you talking about and I actually think it was my sister and she probably just wasn't thinking and then I went back and looked and I was like wow holy cow like there was quite a few people that were like why is she here like who is this girl and I ended up winning the race and they didn't seem to love that idea like I said it wasn't everybody but the negative is louder than the positive and certain times unfortunately um do you walk away from that event feeling like this isn't a sport where I'm going to be welcome and they're not going to like me or really absolutely absolutely um because of all like just it would just kept rolling on that feed and I was like what in the world did I like you know like what what gives her like keep the trails to us and stuff and I was like this is so wild to me like I would welcome somebody with open

32:33arms with any sport like in triathlon world you want to come from trails to triathlon give it a try why wouldn't you want them to try something new and crazy you know and it just I couldn't couldn't fathom somebody not accepting and there was so much love too there really was so there was also that negative right away and I'm like so let me ask this because I know a part of the story is there's this this usada issue that that comes up in your career and and again if if you want to edit this discussion out 100% I'm open but feel free to talk yeah so but I mean so that happens before this bear performance uh the usada yeah yes okay you thought it was 2015 so then so that definitely caught me forever and I want to talk about both that and the haunting part but is it do you get a sense that these people are looking you up and that's what they're seeing

33:35and then that's why they're going right to negative yeah because I mean it takes one person to be like well she's a dopper yeah and then they're like what because who doesn't look like some good juice right true doesn't love she's not that I mean I'm guilty I'm guilty I'm like wait what is happening and so and people read the the title they like when somebody sends them the link all it says is Ashley Paulson band for doping I think but they don't read anything else they don't read what happened that it was like I was able to prove that it was a contaminated substance there was absolutely no way of knowing that this was in what I was taking and how easily that can happen to so many athletes and so many athletes are taking things and they have no idea what's really in our system I believe they're doing really well educating people now but even back in 2015 when this happened to me my mind was blown I had no idea how easily that can happen and so it takes one

34:40person to put that on the feed Ashley Paulson's a dopper this is why she's in the lead right now because I won't not race and so they're like automatically people are like yep yep instead of going into like learning about what happened and that's fair I don't know that I would take the time if I was in somebody else's shoes I don't disagree with that but I mean so here's the thing and so in full disclosure to everybody who's listening because you know people are probably getting so like I am friends with a lot of famous ultra runners and some of them fall into this camp like uh Camille Heron and sage canadae you touch anything your dopper for life fuck you you shouldn't be in the sport okay there's those people and then there's there's other people that are more nuance about it and I have always been someone who's been banging the drum of why do we let basketball players have two or three chances and football players have two or three chances why do we do that with all the other sports but for some reason it's so bizarre to

35:42me ultra running specifically has this idea that you're forever unclean if you ever if you ever get any kind of a dope they used to have the the Lance Armstrong rule in the western states and and I was ready to go to battle with that RD when I when I um interviewed him about it just the whole idea that like you have one violet and there's you know I don't know if you know there was that one woman who just recently had she had one inch or she had one in her past and she's been up in coming trail runner and it always comes up with her as well and when you hear the story it's like she didn't have an incentive to fight it she didn't appeal it it was like a really weird situation and at the end of the day it seems like why should this hawk this person for the rest of their life you know and I think that people don't understand that so like when you got for example and I don't want to get ahead of ourselves but you broke the world record for the 100 mile and you sat on water there and and you know from my experience with avkud cameo when she's broken records they're making you pee right away they're taking your blood right away like you've been tested

36:43and you've been clean except for that one instance and you're and it seems like the short story is oh I heard a dope right now you took something that had a contaminant and you didn't it's not like you took this thing so you could have that chemical you took something else that happened to have something in it that you didn't intend to ingest and and and that's wrong on you you know like you it's your fault if you ingest something that you know but but should this be how you are defined as an athlete for the rest of your life you know it that's really it's really shitty I don't understand it I mean I'm just in that to take over the whole fucking interview and now I'm talking where you are but like I'm recovering drug addict you know I mean I'm I've stolen I've hurt people that I've done all kinds of shitty things you could be like a child rapist and I run fires not going to put by the way you know so and so it was convicted of child rape you know earlier in the but this thing this thing has to hang around your neck like a turd forever I don't get

37:43it I I'm with you on that because I um so like some of my friends that are coming like from you know druggies and stuff like that all of them obviously had contaminated substances in their body at one time um but since it was not tested it was never put out there there's no like website like I even if this and maybe I shouldn't even say this but like what if it wasn't testual this was 2015 of a BCAA like it's a Austrian like this is not like but I get it it was it was in my system but that's where I'm like do we not ever just let that go this was over a decade ago and every race I do which was a lot I have somebody being like well she's a bit weird I'm like do you have not anything else to do yeah but all of the other clean rates are like tests they they just don't matter they think that I'm somehow um finagling them for

38:49niggling it or messing with my watch to cut course or they think I'm really smart it's kind of funny how smart people think I am to be able to like override you Sada and my my garment or whatever and I don't bring it up I don't bring it up to have it follow you even further but I'm bringing it up because I'm trying to figure out if you felt just unwelcome as a general sense or if you felt unwelcome because you think that that was going on in the background and in every time you have that feeling it's because and and now today you show up I mean obviously the bad water families that exception because they're going to accept everybody no matter what I'm sure it doesn't feel that way but like today let's say you go run run rabbit run or something when you show up at that race do you still feel that does that does that still follow you or is it kind of faded a little bit um it definitely is faded phrase B because like it's not a good feeling like it doesn't matter how much confidence you have or how bad you just you don't race for other people nobody likes negative energy and I don't tick that way I don't feed off some some people like I'll just show them and

39:53forget what they say or what they do I love positive but there's there is definitely always that little bit of you know there's always the little trippers on the side being like oh actually also no too little you know but for the most part I'm able to just like let it go because I don't race for anybody else or if they haven't like if they're not thinking that I'm clean now they're never gonna think I'm clean like I've had so many P tests and blood tests say that I'm it's been clean and here's the thing how many people are tested like do you know that your pee is clean? Yeah no I don't for sure no no and luckily I think they are testing more and I I hope that they educate more now I've been seeing it more and more and about cross contamination and there's more people coming on board with like making sure it's certified by sport but even if you listen to

40:54the Usada things like I was on for the bad water you saw that thing just because I'm like hey it's been a minute like let's up you know let's see what's new and like even with that if it's a certified by sport in my mind I'm like oh good I'm good to go and I like I know you you can't be can't trust anything I'm like you don't and so every time I'm tested I I'm doing everything is clean as I can and no but I'm still nervous because what if I had a smoothie at like there's a smoothie place here in Tellmett it's it's one of their called lean machine and it's absolutely delicious I hear but if I took that the day before a race I'm going to get popped for four years it's a smoothie but it's got to you know I like there's just little things that I hear about that I'm like this is crazy it's so hard and it's scary and yeah so every time I'm tested and like until I see that email come through I'm like okay right but yeah yeah are there some people that

41:59have come around some people that like I apologize to you and say you know what I got it wrong or I mean because there's got to be some people like like let's say when you won bad water I'm sure I was watching that bad or I'm like no where the fuck did this lady come from there's no way this lady came from nowhere not she's winning bad water I mean but but that's like a that's a healthy skepticism you know that's something that everybody for sure for sure yeah and there's definitely been people come around which is I've had actually one in particular that she was really harsh really really harsh and she wrote some articles she really like and it actually a few months after it happened as she's like put my name through dirt it happened to her and it was the same exact thing and she was like I actually reached out to her and I was like listen the stock I am so sorry you're going through it too like it sucks and she just was like I had no idea it could even be this way I was like I

43:04know I know and she apologized she felt so bad and you know we've actually and you know we've stayed in touch since then it's not like we're best friends but it's also like no like if I see or I'd be like of course give her a hug because like nobody should go through that like it's hell and it's it's really hard when your name just gets torn down and you're like I wasn't doing anything wrong but other people that have like over time and had experience and or a friend go through it be like I know this person would never intentionally cheat and they went through it like you did and so sorry I thought you were a cheater and so you know you get those and I'm sure a lot of people that have come around they're not reaching out and some people never will but I did kind of think I did kind of think you had to be a cheater when I saw a picture of your feet after bad water so that the picture in the sandals and I was like just have any blisters on her feet at all like that's magic there's so many it's funny some picture my feet went viral or something

44:07people like there's no way she ran bad water and I was like I just don't want to do it is so funny is so funny but yeah I don't know and don't get blisters let's circle back you go and you do the bear like randomly you go from you do it a 50 mile then you go do the bear you won the bear and then when you get done I mean and that's like unlike unlike anything in your in your history when I look at you you know you got triathlons you got marathons you got I mean and now you're doing a hundred mile mountain race in Utah at altitude and you get done you get first place and then is it all right fuck all those triathlons this is my new thing is it I want to do mountain races like how how does that impact other setting aside that feeling unwelcome part like the the act of running the hundred mile trail or the hundred mile distance does that kind of shift what you're what you're going to do with your career uh no not really I kind of jumped it into a little bit because I knew one day I would start doing a hundred like hundred mile races I just didn't think it would be that

45:08early and then at the time I started traveling quite a bit with iFit um and tell me about this iFid I don't know nothing about iFit so like like like let's say I'm in sixth grade and you're tell what the hell is iFit and what do you what do you do for that so iFit is a fitness company we have a whole bunch of different equipment and like a bike a treadmill rower and as a trainer I travel the world and I am able to give these workouts um that they record and put on screen so you feel like you're actually there with me whether it's running hiking cycling whatever it is rowing um so like say mountain Fuji we got to Japan we're literally in Japan climbing mountain Fuji and i'm talking to the camera telling him where we are like all the things and like their treadmill automatically goes up to the incline that i'm climbing unless of course it's past 40 percent which some of Mount Fuji is then they're just at like a 40 percent like you know

46:11climbing away and so they don't have to touch anything and so they're just on this big screen you can see exactly what i'm doing and so yeah we're able to bring like travel to people's home like especially during covid which is such an amazing thing to be able to like allow people to feel like they're getting away and you know go go to coastrika go to like and maricious go to south Africa all over the world and so that's my job actually is i go and film all over the world different workouts um so the nice subscribe to the service and then i say i want to do a whatever a run or a climb or whatever and then you're one of the people that i might have as a instructor that day yeah and you can override me at any time but some people they like to get educated or like i'll give stories or you know give them workouts and so they don't have to think about it they just have to show up press start and then i take over to know they're just like i just want to be there for

47:11the scenery and they override me and just do their own work i know how many people are watching you when when when they're doing this well it goes on to the machine after yeah so it's not life it's not life they put it on the machine after and we've got gosh there's like a million subscribers on two i-fe it's like a million people yeah like like yeah so like between our different machinery um and you don't have to have one of the machines to do the workouts but or to like you can get the app but it's obviously not going to control the machine it does need to be a Nordic track or pro form or free motion to actually like have it automatically do that you know so like biking it's super fun because your bike's going up and i remember my first time being like trying it like i go into the i-fit studio and i was like caring how cool couldn't be i've been teach us been for years and i press start i'm like oh you feel like you're there i'm like oh my gosh i'm writing right next to the trainer and there are goalists that make them feel like you know

48:13we're just on this long ride together or long hike or run um and like we do the the world's like we do a Sydney marathon Boston marathon New York marathon we've done all those like filmed it so people can feel like i'm training for this marathon i'll put Boston marathon on my machine today and they can come run with me or a few other training are they filming you running the actual marathon or just the marathon course oh yeah oh the actual race yeah there's racers out there and um so yeah like luxury so there must to be people that come up to you and say actually you don't understand i couldn't run and now i watch you and now i've become a runner and all my runs are with you and you're like my best friend that i run with all the time and train with and i owe it all to you does that happen a lot it it does it's really quite amazing that i have a white my emotional i don't know i'm so emotional and i like it it's it's kind of like well

49:15people are watching and listening and i can inspire them to do different things like do hard things and they're doing this because of something i said they're doing this because of something i you know because i still have like as much as i'm a confident now i still like whoa wait really me but yeah i helped them they're putting in the work but you know it's it's kind of cool to have a job that special and that is literally changing people's lives for the better to get out there and move and push themselves and and then i've got friends all over the world wherever i go like i'm in an airport and people like oh my gosh you're my life you're a trainer or i'm like you know so it's really really quite a gift to uh share that with the world and other runners and kids and um even elderly people that come up to me it's just every age every every bit i just feel like it's such a blessing to have this as as a job do you ever think about sometimes i think like

50:20from the podcast of the people that you know like someone's gonna email me after this interview and they're gonna say that Ashley that was the one that just connected with me and i was crying on the trail and changed my life and you know but do you ever think about the people that those people inspire you know like there's some girl that like just started running because of you but then she has like a neighbor that's seeing her change and they're saying well maybe out there's people that you're impacting down the road that you're never gonna even know that you impacted you know second hand do you ever think about that yeah it's it's a domino effect it's a domino effect because i in fact it was today i was running with a girl i was out here running with Brady he's running 50 k in 50 states in 50 days have you heard of him no that's it that's a cool okay yeah he's he's on day 39 i was out that's why i was a little late say we had a few little things um and there was a girl that came out to me and um she actually was telling me about her running journey and um

51:23and thanking me and stuff and i said right now she's got little kids as i say you are that person now because she was talking about her daughter being like now i want to run said listen you are that person we all can be that person it doesn't take having a job like i fit it doesn't it takes you getting out there and showing up being that person for your daughter being that person for your neighbor like because they're watching they're seeing this and like wait my mom never was a runner now she's out running like a 5k now she's out running like a 50 k um and so yeah like it's a domino effect and this is what you do for work this is your job yeah so are you uh so you are employed by iFIT or sponsored by them or just this is just what you this is your main thing yeah i'm one of their trainers and they actually like this year they've actually really like we're doing a whole documentary on a year um and so they've been a little bit more into my involved into my day to day rather than just teaching um classes or going traveling

52:29now they're at the races and trying to get like this documentary out and we're doing a run club that starts next in like two weeks so that they can every every week where we're dropping a run just from my garage people can come and join in just trying to get more people moving and anyway and inspire people to you know get outside their comfort zone and you know not let the fear of failure keep them from trying something because trust me i'm scared every time i told the line to a race that i've got a big goal um and we just want to show people how you know this it can be done this is our impossible year and we're chipping away and getting these things out there so we're doing it in a whole bunch of different elements you could come out and do the run clubs come out and do like a run like i did with Brady today um it's just about moving what you can it's not about running professionally it's not about you know ego at all it's just doing

53:29what you can do today and um and i we're all setting that example for for people around us what is your now marathon PR like what's the fastest you've run marathon in oh gosh i haven't done like just the marathon for a long um like race to marathon it's two thirty four okay and that was few years ago you're not going back to that you're maybe i know i won't say never because i would love to as a as a 45 year old get to the Olympic trials again okay why have you not done uh comrades uh i'm going this next that's the goal oh really okay i can't say i'm going but like yes that's that's what we talked about at jackpot that i've done the comrades three times and my wife love South Africa and you you had just gone to would you do Cape Town when you did the seven months okay and yeah it was that the first time you had been there uh second i done an ironman out there okay but i would love next year i want to do comrades marathon and but there it's not

54:33open yet the elite field isn't open i actually did reach out just last week actually and then i also want to do sparkathlon those are my two big ones for next year and to try to qualify for the Olympic trials as a 45 year old grandma but that's going to require me to push my speed again and i feel like comfortably right now i could run a 240 like push myself 240 to low 240 but 237 is what i need but like five so absolutely like five 15 to five 30 for 56 that that's that's rough i mean that's like getting in the top 10 for comrades it would be really hard you know yeah i mean even with 238 speed that would still be hard oh yeah yeah so are you going out there are you gonna like change your training and your trajectory to i want to i want to try to yeah i mean you you go to every race and want to win and you go there thinking i want to try to win or what do you do yeah no absolutely not i think that would ruin it for me um because i am so last minute that and i think people feel like that is always my goal

55:39and they're like you can't you can't run slow because there has been some training races that i've been like i'm just just build like for xy or z race and i happen to win or something but there's plenty of races that i'm like this is legit like i have no problem being back here like you know with friends or stepping at aid and that's part of what i love about racing too i love running fast i love winning it's fun but that i don't want that to be like the overall consuming goal of everything would i want to push myself for comrades a thousand percent yes would i want to give it everything spark attack on those are like two that i really want to give like everything to next year i take a whole family to come out for sure kids go to i mean i mean most two of my kids are out of the house if they want to come they'd have to you know get that get themselves there but um the two that are here we for sure max and you're gonna make a trip out of it you're not just gonna it breaks my heart when people

56:42walk there and they just find a home again you know it's grease and self-fear for go are you kidding me two amazing places like yes we're actually homeschooling max this year because i want him to like any event i do happen to participate in we want him to come out and be a part of he's been part of the triple crown and jackpot and the treadmill run he's been at my big races this year except for bad water because of all of the strict rules of bad water so um i want to show him that it's like mom or tart if this isn't handed to me and there aren't races every race goes my way and this this year i've had some big lofty goals and i've had some of them blow up in my face but i've also accomplished them and i want him to see both i don't want him just to see good and hear about the good i want him to see me running sideways like i was at bigfoot as much as i didn't want that to happen i was running like my whole back it was out and i think it's important for my kids to see that i don't just win every race i don't want them to see that it's just oh another you know

57:51of course record oh mom got a world record no i go through hell and back at some races too and i think that's where they it's it's hard for them to see remember my daughter was so worried like dad i know how you do this at my last race she's like mom i'm so worried about mom didn't done and i lived with the races that i think they'll remember more than like a world record like mom kept fighting mom kept pushing mom wasn't afraid to try and not giving them the the courage to do whatever their heart thing is it doesn't need to be running um and you know get back up mom just blocked out on the trail like and then she got back up why why did you when you were in South Africa did you where did you what did you do other than running did you go anywhere did you think fun yeah we not like we know a few days early and we did some of the climbs out there it was a table is it a table mountain yeah yes we went up there and obviously like i

58:55wanted i didn't want to push my body too hard because i just have seven marathons to run in seven consecutive days and but that was so worth it we went out there we just we really enjoyed um going out to some of the local like career karaoke and like the restaurants and walking the streets and the beaches and it's a crazy place. It's a crazy place. It's the prettiest place i've ever been i mean it was beautiful just you got the mountains you got the ocean you got the cities it's like everything and then you were like you're like in Antarctica right over there. Well yeah i mean it's probably you can't see it but you just like oh my gosh so what's the what's the favorite race you've ever done in your whole life number one oh gosh that's now that's too much. First thing that comes in your head doesn't matter if it's right oh my gosh i mean the the great world race was amazing like it was so cool like to be able to go around the world in seven days on every single continent and to be around like my husband was able to go and it was amazing so that would have to be one

1:00:00of my the top. Prettyest place you've ever been in your whole life. Prettyest place ever i just this is so hard. Mauritius was gorgeous. Mauritius. That's inside that has 12. What's the worst race you ever had? Worst race. Worst race would have been. It's usually the one you just did because that that yeah. Actually that one was it was my first time i've ever been like i'm done like i if i had a way office mountain to like something drive me or something i think i would have gotten the car and i've never been to the point of pain mentally like hurting so bad and not knowing how i'm going to get the next mile in next a half mile in and i told my husband i was like i am done and he's like i've never said that before. I quit like i did drop out of jackpot two years ago because i was like i'm feeling this pain and i don't need this race i don't need to be here but this was a different

1:01:04feeling of like i can't do this but i didn't have a choice i had to get off that mountain and once matt offered to take my best from me and help put like his arm around me i couldn't quite do that so like nevermind i'm gonna finish it myself because once i do that once i put my arm around him i'm de-cute. Once i give him my best i'm de-cute but i did say it it was the first time i've ever said that and it was it was like 40-50 miles of straight pain pain and very very slow so that was probably my worst but i loved it too is that weird? No it's not weird i mean that that's all surrounding right? It is it is. It is. It is. It described like the like i there was like i on here yeah robgoye and he used to put on a race code that i have an arrow hundred and it There's like a one mile loop around a fucking cone in July in Texas. And it just sounded just like the worst thing you'd ever wanted. No one would ever want to do it. And he's like, yeah. Now everybody's signing up, you know, it's like that's ultra running, right?

1:02:05It's terrible. Let's go do it. Let's do it. Let's do the double. It's a worst idea. Let's do it again. Yeah. Yeah. So are you Western states? Careers? No. How come? No, I don't think I can do it because I'm in my back right. No, you can. You can. Are you are sure? Yeah, that changed. So that was one of the things. So I interviewed the race director and then actually went there this year and rode with him the whole time. And one of the things we talked about was I was ready to yell at him because they have this rule that if you ever had a band from anything, you're out forever. That's changed. Now there's a there's a way that you can if you have, you can still request it and they'll still consider the circumstances or whatever. There is a way to get in. So, um, but so if there was a way to get in, is that something you'd think about? I mean, I'm sure there'd be people that would be shitty to you there. I mean, obviously, but yeah, it's going to have to put it anyways. But here's like typically when a race is like that when they're like, we don't want anybody with that band. I'm like, I don't want to be at your race anyway.

1:03:07But if they've changed that and they're realizing that that's like, you it's not a life band. Come on. Right. Like then I'm okay with that. But yeah, it's definitely something that I'm like, for so long and I was like, I don't want to be at the race if they don't want me there. I want to be still welcome. I thrive off of good energy and I don't need to show up and be like, I'll show you. I I want to feel welcome. But that's changed. There's so the anti-doping policy has changed and it's if you've been found to have dope somewhere you're ineligible to run during your period of an eligibility, an eligibility, which doesn't bother you. If you have been subject to a ban of three months or more, you're ineligible to run the run unless otherwise agreed to by Western State. That's what that's the thing that I wanted to fight for. There should be a unless otherwise you should be able to go to Western states and say, this is me, this is what happened, this is why I want to run your race. And then at least they should be able to think about it. That's all, you know, and yeah, and that's what it is.

1:04:10Because you know, like when you're telling your story, like it gets a good example, you're talking about being young and not feeling special and then you go and run this race and then you feel special. Let's say, you know, two or three races later, you make a bad decision as a kid and take some drug because you want to be able to keep running and feel special. You do something dumb, even if it's intentionally, should that hurt you the rest of your life? I mean, I don't think so. I think you should get a second chance. This is a sport of people that got second chances, you know? So that's kind of an neat thing that they've changed that. So you should take a look at that. I, okay, well that's very interesting. Yeah, I had no idea. That's just been not even like something that's crossed my mind because it for so long, it was like, well, you could never do that. And I'm like, okay, well, and for a little while bothered me, but now I'm like, there's so many races. Yeah. So many races. But it's not off the table for you. You could totally do it. Yeah. I love that. Okay. And thank you for letting me know. Yeah. You tell, tell your business manager over there if you've got questions.

1:05:12You know, I'm always available. Yeah, okay, okay. I know some of the people. Okay, that's Maddie, you know? You've been in touch with Maddie, so. You've been really lucky with your pregnancies. Like, that's the one thing I want to know when you're telling your story, I'm like, I know so many women that they have a baby and then they struggle to get back. It's really, really hard. There's a story that's on your website. I want to hear the story, but that you actually ran to the hospital to have your child. But it sounds like all of, you know, did you, have you just been really, really lucky, you know, coming back real fast? Yeah. I, I, like I said, fitness has always been a part of my life. So during pregnancy, I continue to move and I understand not everybody is able to do that. So please don't be like, Ashley did it. Like, I'm going to do it. Please like, know your body and we are all very, very different. With my twins was a little different. I was a little bit more cautious because it was twins. And I was a teenager. I didn't, I was scared, you know.

1:06:12But once I got pregnant with my second, which my third child, but my second, I was like, okay, I kind of knew my body and I've already done several like things with my body work. It was strong. I knew this and I continue to teach fitness classes every single day. And the day before I delivered, I taught like four classes. I think my class was exploded with like overloaded with people because they're like, she's got to go into labor today during this kickboxing class. We all want to see her like, pick that bag in her water break, you know. And so I was, I was very active with Sierra, my third child. And then with Max, that's when I was really into the racing scene more. And so I really wanted to like, I didn't care to compete compete, but I wanted to, I love the energy. And so I would pace races. I'd pace marathons try to get like a pace of 330 or something. So I still felt really, really good. I'd listen to my body, listen to the heart and all that stuff. But I did Iron Man's like several marathons, half marathons.

1:07:15And I got to 19 medals as a pregnant with my fourth child. And so here we are. 19 medals in and it's time to have little Max. And I was like, all that would have been cool to have 20, but no big deal. So I've got all my medals, you know, like during the pregnancy. And as it was a schedule, it was a schedule C section. So it's not like I was in labor. But I was like, oh man, I like, I need to get my morning run in. I'll just run to the hospital. It was a nine and a half miles to the hospital. So I called up some friends. I was like, hey, I can't run for a little while. I'm going to have a C section. Let's get my final run in. And so like I think it was like four in the morning, like eight or nine friends come over with balloons and stuff being like, okay, let's go. You know, so we run to the hospital. Matt had like an eight station halfway through because it was hot in the summer. And and then at the hospital doors, hospital doors, Matt had it all decorated,

1:08:21like as a finish line almost. And I had no idea if I was doing this. I had no idea. The looms, all this stuff. And I turned the corner to get in the hospital. And I see him with these streamers and like this like finishing tape and all this stuff. And he's like, he's like, hey, you know, this is your 20th race. And your your finishing metal is that little baby you get to come out with. I mean, seriously, how how cute is that? I didn't spend my 20th like race, you know. I didn't get to spend a lot of time with them. But I'll tell you that her husband's a super nice guy too. Like he was super, super nice. I almost expected him to be on the show with you. But, you know, oh, he would have had you. He's like, he know and he loves, he loves being a part of it. He didn't know. Sometimes he's like, do they want me? I'm like, I'm always down to have a month. But anytime he loves that stuff too. So yeah, he's great. He's great support. He loves, it's hard for him what I do. But it's also he loves that. He's really excited about my goals and my dreams.

1:09:23He's my biggest cheerleader. And sometimes believes in me way more than I believe in myself. He's like my pro card. I never would have taken that as I never would have thought I was good enough to be in that field. Even though it clearly like I'd earned it, I would have done that without him on all of these different pushes. So what's your secret? I wonder what your secret is. Because so here you are, you know, you start out a little bit self-conscious. You come into this sport, you're right now 45. And you're kicking people's asses that are much younger than you. You're full of energy. You don't look like you've ever been sad in your whole fucking life. Like what's the secret? What's going on? We know it's not drugs, you know? So what do you, what do you chalk that up to? Because you seem to have just a spirit and an attitude of positivity and energy. And like where does that come from? Thank you. I really appreciate that. I think part of it is I'm still doing this out of joy,

1:10:28not out of something I feel like I have to do. I don't have this agenda of fulfilling all of these things for any other reason. And like, you know, okay, it's because I love it. It's not because I'm forced to do it. Not because it's a job. And I like legit have to put that out of my head. And I love having a variety of things because with my ADHD brain, I take off of adrenaline dopamine and that's variety. So giving me a road marathon. Oh my gosh, it's a different to hit. Giving me a triathlon. Oh my gosh, that just hit me different. Putting me on the trails with crazy verb. Are you kidding me? Like we're going to go climb 44,000 feet in 200 miles. That's a different hit. So having that variety for me, I think has been really key. Even though so often I've had different coaches plead with me.

1:11:29Please just stick to one thing. Please just stick to triathlon. You could be so good if you just would like let the marathons go and not feel like you needed to be on the trails. Please just like let the triathlon go. But I feel like because it's still something I'm so excited about to be out there because it's so different. Every little thing is so fun to me. That I'm it's it doesn't feel like a job. It doesn't feel like a chore. And I do better that way than if I was just to focus on one thing. Because I tell you what, if I just focus on marathon, I think I get burned out really fast. If I just used to focus on triathlon when I was triathlon, I don't think I would have liked it. I think I would have given it all. I think I'd be doing something completely different. But I kept that variety because that's how I tick. I might not be the best in the world, but for me, I'm giving it my best and my like biggest passion because I'm still finding the joy and what I do. And so find the joy.

1:12:29Don't let other people say like, oh, just focus on one thing. If you're finding the joy and it's still, you're going to do that. You're going to be in this for the long haul. Well you know. If you're finding it just kind of the grind, that's not going to be, you're not going to do it for the long haul. Well, you are the best in the world. They're running a hundred miles. 12, 1934. Was that, did you set out to break that record? Did you break that record just by running as fast as you can? I actually, that was the goal. That was the goal for that race. So there was some times that I'm like, as I had done different distances, different paces. And then hearing like what the records were, I was like, I wonder if I could try that. Like, I wonder what that'd be like. And so yeah, going into Jackpot this year, that was definitely like what I was setting out to be. And we had it paced out, right? But that's not how I take for every race.

1:13:29There are going to, there's going to be certain races that I've got different goals and different in dreams to fulfill the other races. And I'm like, I just want to show up, see how I feel. If that means I'm running really, really ridiculously fast, or if that means I, you know, run slow for a little while and feel good and go, then I do. I go off a feel for a lot of things. But this year's been a different, different beast. There's been goals at almost every race, which isn't like me. But that's why we're giving a try to see how I tick that way. And to see like what I'm capable of in my 45 year. How would you react to the proposal of maybe trying to break the 24 hour record running on a track? I'm interested. Oh, I'm always interested. How about 48 hours? Interested? Not right now. Six days? No. Transcon. Tell me about this. Running across the country. Oh, 1000%.

1:14:311000%? Yeah. Like with an RV or some. Yes. Oh, I want to do that one day for sure. For sure. I want variety. I want variety. And I think anything past 24 hours right now, like on a tread or something, it's not enough variety. Or I'm not talking on a treadmill. I'm saying like just the time, race, like a six day event where you're just, you know, running for six days straight or you're running for 48 hours straight. Do those things interest you or not really? Um, yeah. No, I mean, I guess I just have to see like the course and stuff. Because right now it's kind of like, oh, no. Yeah. Are you going to do more bad waters? You know what? And then with that water. Okay. This was going to be my third and final year. And this was before anything happened at Badwater this year. Matt and I had a discussion like, okay, we're going to go send it. It's going to be either really, really, really amazing. And we're going to try to break that 20 hour mark. Or it's going to blow up in our face, but we're going to still finish and, you know, we tried.

1:15:32And so Badwater is a kind of a harder one for Maddie to crew. Sure. Um, you know, so it's, he loves it. He does loves it. He loves it. But he's like, let's just move on. And I'm there for it. Like we, we hit three amazing years. They're all very different, um, hurt in different ways. But yeah, I think third time, it wasn't my goal. But, you know, we, we were still able to be blessed to get out there for three chances at Badwater. Is he always the crew chief? Oh, as much. Yeah, there's nobody that crew chiefs like Maddie. But maybe sometimes do you go do races and he doesn't come? Or is it always like a package deal? It's a rare thing, especially this year. He's, he's at every single race because it is such a crazy year. But I think that my biggest, he's, he's missed a few. He's missed like one of my 200s. Um, few of my hundreds just because it's kind of last minute. And if I don't have a, I don't have like a crazy goal or something, then I'm like, just stay home like, you know, I just, this person lots to crew me.

1:16:33But if, if there's a goal in their maps, that are maps, not going to miss that. And you could just run for the sake of participation. You could like, if you're, you know, coming to Chicago here. I'm like, yeah, you'll do the Chicago marathon. I'll give you a big, we'll go mail it in. We'll run like five hours. You'd be perfectly happy. You could do that. A thousand percent. Yeah, that's interesting. I do that with, I do that with I fit. Like I'm, I'm a registered, like, racer when I go out and film for I fit. And I will get messages being like, what happened out there? I'm like, we're filming all day. Like I don't care about my time for every race. It doesn't like my ultra signed up score. I don't care about some people thrive. Like they're like, oh my gosh, you did this race. Are you worried about your ultra signed up score? I'm like, no, I had a blast. I don't do it for a score on that. So are there people in the sport that have helped you, that have, that have inspired you, that, you know, that that meant a lot to you? Or did you have to learn everything yourself? Oh, absolutely.

1:17:33There's always the people that have inspired me. And a lot of it has started with like a local runner out here. One of my best friends, she's always past me for bad water, actually. I remember moving here and being like, oh, this local legend. She's so fast. She's so fast. And just watching her and her energy has been a huge inspiration for me for years, for like probably 15 years. And now I'm grateful to be able to run and keep up with her. And that wasn't the case years and years ago. What are you saying? Can you say a name? Absolutely. Her name's Amber Green. And she's been to the Olympic trials a few times. And blessed to call her one of my besties. And that like you surround yourself around those people, that push you, that have the same idea of like what's going to make you better than her cheering for you. And I'm very blessed to have some local girls that are so inspirational. My best friend Sarah, that's like she's always up for a long run with me.

1:18:39Even though she knows she's going to be puking. She knows like Diaries going to hit. She knows she's like, that's just what happens with her body. But she's like my yes girl. And that's so inspirational to me. Like she's not going to feel great by mouth, 20. And she's still willing to come out with me. And you know, just surround yourself by like-minded people that are cheering for you and you can feel that. And you know, your dreams are endless. Like they're going to be there for you. You're going to be there for them. It's not a competition. And even though when we race, we race like we're racing against each other sometimes. But we want the best for each other at the same time. We don't feel that like on our training runs. We don't feel that even when we're in the same race, we're still like you've got this. No, you've got this, you know? So find your people. And those are my biggest people that have inspired me. It's not like, you know, Olympic people. The people that actually are in my day to day life helping me grow and push myself.

1:19:43I like you shouting them out too. Because I mean, people need to know like that's one thing that I feel real strongly about. It's showing up for the people and saying, you know what? What you do makes a difference in my life, you know? Because that, you know, we don't say that enough. And sometimes we don't, sometimes we think they know that. And they don't. Like one of these friends, they might be like, I heard what you said about me. I got choked up. I didn't even realize, you know? It's kind of an issue. Yeah, it's true. It's very true. And those two have been like, you know, my, they're, they would show up for anything for me here. And I'm blessed that they're local. And I get to see them as much as I want. Are any of these kids going to be runners? Any of them? Your kids. Are any of them going to be runners? Oh, yeah. Okay, so my any daughter that has the two-year-old lives in Hawaii. She's training for her very first marathon. She's 24. So yes, she said she would never run a marathon. Oh my gosh, never say never, right? And then her twin sister is actually run two marathons. And it was the same thing she said she never would. But then all of a sudden, just kind of like, hey, maybe I want to try this.

1:20:44And then yeah, like my son came out and ran the 5k with us this morning, that with Brady. And so he got some in. And I don't push them to do what I do. I want them to find their joy and their passion. But I'm never going to be mad if they want to go run a marathon because they can always count on me to be right by their side to do that. But I'll, you know, Did you go run with them or did you cheer for them or what was what did you do? Yeah, um, with Sammie's very first one, I stayed right by her side the entire time. Her goal was a sub-for marathon. Miami marathon. And she nailed it. She got it right onto the tee. And then with with Lexi, I will, she's doing the Honolulu with marathon. And I will definitely be by her side for very first one. I'm not going anywhere. I will be from start to finish cheering her on because, you know, it's, they're like my little besties and they want to do a big little part of what mom wants to do. Amazing. And so they want to one day be able to both come out and pace me for some of my races.

1:21:47And so they want to be ready for that. So you have Moab left this year and then tunnel hill? Yep, those are the two. And are you going to be going to con it for the, are you going to go for the record at tunnel hill? Or I mean, you've had a weird year. You're doing the triple crown at 200s and then, you know, it's a lot this year. Definitely with the two 100s, the jackpot trying to get, they're getting the world record there. And then we hit the world record on the treadmill. Then we went to Tahoe 200 for the triple crown, first triple crown, bad water. Then we got big foot. Now we're moving on to Moab, which is not that I'm counting, but it's 38 days away. And then yeah, going right back into speed at the speed of above 100 miles flat. And I would love, love, love, love. And this is what I'm training for right now is to break 12 hours for the 100. That's something. That's something. Well, if you don't do it at tunnel hill, you know, next year there's,

1:22:47there's a real good 100 mile here in Wisconsin. You can always look at the Badger 100. Okay. Fast and flat rail trails. Come on down and be my guest. You'd love it. I give you a really pretty buckle with a nice thing on the back of it. Oh, I love it. Yes. Yeah. I didn't. What? What time of year has that? It's first weekend in August. Okay. Okay. Oh, so you just had that. Yeah. Yeah, we had 135 finish. We had about 200 starters. I mean, it's becoming a bigger race, but it's a rail trail out back and out again, like 33, 33, 33. And it's kind of pretty like rolling farms and, you know, but it's a flat rail trail. And it's a, it's not like that Pete gravel. It's a little bit of a little bit of sand, a little bit dirt, a little bit of grass, but nothing to trip on. No hills. It's just straight as shit and just really pretty. So these are so fun for me too. Like I love them. I love to climb. I love to, but I'm also like, ooh, a fast 100 is always one. Yeah. I'm, so I'm just getting like when I saw you, I had

1:23:49suffered an injury. I had a surgery a year ago and I'm still recovering. So this year I'm just starting to run again. And I'm going to try to do the big sir marathon. I put my name in for that. Have you ever done that? Yeah. Oh, it's not. Oh, it's so pretty there though. I've never done it. Yeah. It's got hills too. Hills in pretty and marathon. Put on your list. I do. Yeah. You should like it. One more. One more. Just put on my list. Right? I want to just do it all. No big deal. Well, if you're ever in Chicago too, you know, let me know. Get together. You and your husband, we'd probably be fun to go with you and your husband and my wife. So, you know, let me know. Yes. And I'm like, nice little double date. It was really fun to get to know you and telling your story and, you know, helping out with this Western states thing. You know what? That's you should put your name in. But I'm looking forward to seeing what you do and comment. I mean, I might have to go to comments now. And that's the hundred. Oh, come out. Hundred years? Yes. It's the hundred. Yeah. So it's going to be kind of crazy. There will be a lot of people. It's going to be, yeah, that it's going to be pretty stacked. I'm sure.

1:24:50I reached out to them last, I think, two weeks ago. And they're like, it's not quite open yet. Make sure you, sorry, the sun just came in. It's like clouds. Make sure you check back when it's open. So I said, I got an hour or so. I said, I'm my bio and all that stuff. They're like, come back later. But, you know, only three Americans have ever won comrades. Really? Two of them have slept in my guest bedroom. Shut up. Really? Camille. And Trason. Wow. The third ones, Alberto Salazar. And he's not answering my emails. I don't think he's going to be coming over. But if we could get another American female winner, that'd be kind of fun. Let's go comrades. Yep. We found those. So those two, I, I don't even know what the records are for any of those things. I'll look into it. But I just know that if those are two races, I really want to kill their energy and be a part of and just, you know, do my best on those classes. It is the greatest race I've ever seen ever. I mean, oh, it's, I mean,

1:25:52run it twice. I've been there three times. But I mean, it's, Americans don't, they don't understand. I mean, it's on, it's on TV for 12 hours. Everybody knows about three. You don't, you walk around with that. Like if, like if you win the comrades, you could go to the, the, the, the president's house. I mean, you are a Nash, it is a national of it. It's not like here where like maybe some people know who won Boston. Everybody knows about comrades. Everybody goes, you're in the airport. You have your medal on. People are congratulating you. It is a national. Oh, you're giving me two. Oh, when, when Anne won her second comrades, Nelson Mandela came down in a helicopter and gave her her medal. I mean, it is a big, big deal. The comrades, it's crazy. Yeah. And you, you finish in like a, like a stadium. It feels like you're in the, you're, like you're, like you're winning the Super Bowl when you come through. It's, it's not, and anytime it gets hard, you just look around and you're like,

1:26:54I'm running across Africa. You know, I mean, it's insane. Yeah. And you know, I like, I mean, you've done major marathon. You know how like it gets, it gets busy for the comrades that's almost like that for three corps of the race. There's people, they, they go out and they set up like barbecues and they spend the whole day on the course. And it's, it's like nothing you've ever seen. It is insane. Really? Yeah. What are, what are the winning times? I don't even know. I have to say it's like around like 530 for women. Let me look. 530 and it's 60. It's 56. 56, 58, something like that. But what's the record? Let me see. I know. Let's do a research. How fun would that be? Let's see. Comrades, winners. This is good podcasting. People like, I know. I know. I'm looking like, like, I've got an Ashley Paulson look up things on the internet together. Okay. So, so Gertestine's been the winner. There's another runner that Americans should know more about.

1:27:56She's fucking crazy and she's one, I think she's, she's one marathon. She's been like maybe top 10 in New York, but she's one of the comments last four years in a row. Wow. 544, 551, 549, 544. So you're looking at 545 ish for 562 miles, which is, I mean, it's fast, right? I mean, yeah, I mean, look at the progression. They'll look like Camille's was 627 and now we're down to 544. It took, it took, it took, it took a lot of time off that in 10 years. That's the thing that's so amazing is like we're just improving as we're able to get different things out there. Like, oh my gosh, if she can do it in that time, I'm going to try, you know, like, and that, that should be the goal for everyone. Like, hey, why, why shouldn't I try that? The top 10 medals? Not only on the bed over try. You get a, it's the smallest metal you'll ever get. It's like the size of a quarter, the metal's telling. But top 10, you get a gold medal that's made of a real gold.

1:28:57They give you like a Cougar ant and I think the pot's like, you get like a hundred grand. It's a, it's a big bay day. Oh, it's a major. Yeah, it's a major purse. So if you can, top, I think if you get top 10, you get money and it's, and it's good money. So what about last person standing if you thought about that? You know, I actually have a buddy doing one in Texas on December 5th. And he wants me to come out and I'm kind of just telling him, it will be a last minute thing because I want to stay on the Philistra Channel Hill and just where I'm mentally and stuff like, I want to be excited to do it. And I've done something kind of like that just one time and just hearing St. George, there was a local one. And this is one that people were blown away that I decided to do because it messed up my ultra running score or my ultra-sane of score, right? And it was fresh off of the surgery. And it was like, I don't know how he feels about stopping for like on their time.

1:29:59I want to stop on my time. And then not knowing the complete distance, you know, it's kind of the unknown, which is exciting too. But I was fresh off of a surgery. So I didn't go very far on that. I just was like, I want to see how my foot does. Did you like the experience of it though? I mean, was it interesting? I really do like the experience. It was really fun. So I'll kind of see how tunnel Hill goes. And then if I go out to Texas or not to do this one with my buddy, it will be my first one, like real one. Because the first one I knew I wasn't going to, I just wanted to see how we were. My last race that I put on every year is a 48 hour, 24 hour last person standing. And last year the guys went 260 miles. They like went way over. Like I didn't think we could possibly go into three days. And we went well into the third day. But it's kind of like, it's a fun race to put on. And it's fun to watch. Like what is the mindset? Like there's some guys that go nice and slow. And then they're kind of like spreading out the suffering.

1:31:00Then some guys go fast and they try to get their sleep in. And you know, it's really interesting. And the games, the head games that everyone's playing and stuff like that. It's like the, yeah, it's interesting. But and then mine, we have a cash pot too. So like, I want a woman to win. We've never had a woman win outright. And like, so like if a woman wins outright, she gives like 15 her bucks, which is, you know, that's not a bad payday for doing an ultra, you know, I mean, ultra. We usually don't get anything, which isn't, you know, why we do it, but it is nice to have like, I think, yeah, it's going to cover your trip. Well, and I set it up so that like every time someone signs up, 50 more bucks goes in the pot. So like, let's say you get the bug and like one of these years you say, I want to come on, you say to all your people, hey, I fit people come and do this race with me because that's the other fun thing. How many times will I get to do a race where I can start with Ashley Pulse in every hour on the hour, you know, and you kind of get to know people and no one's in a big hurry. So it's kind of fun. But that would be really fun.

1:32:01Yeah, that would be really fun. Yeah, I like that idea quite a bit like, and then just kind of the mind game of like, hey, this one I'm going to go a little faster because I want to sleep for 20 minutes. So many mind games. So the mental part of that, the one when it was just found to two guys, the one guy kept saying, this is going to be my last one. And then the rumor would get out to the other guy that this guy's about to drop and then he wouldn't drop and he'd be like, that guy's messing with my head. And then that guy thought the other guy was messing with the other guy. That part of the game. No one slept. Everybody's kind of freaked out and it's just it's interesting. And it's fun for me as a race charger. I like to put it on. It's fun. So what's your favorite one to put on? Well, the Badger 100 is the most fun obviously because in addition to being fast and flat, we also have a 36 hour cutoff. So we get a lot of like older people that can't make 30 hours anymore, that want to do 100 one more time. And this year was really special because the last lady that finished, she had done it with her son, and they had DNF together. And then he finished the next year and then he died from a heart in large heart.

1:33:05So they buried, she buried her son with our buckle and they put the picture of him in his bib on gravestone. I didn't know any of this coming into it. And then she came back and she finished this year. She was the very last finisher, Bonnie Kaufman, really, really inspirational story. Yeah. So much so we're starting a scholarship fund for her, in her son's name, for like one runner that's, you know, facing adversity this year. They're going to be like the Nick DeGroot runner every year. But I was, I like those stories. I stand at the finish line and half those people, they make me cry. You know, I'm like, cry my eyes out, hugging these people. And then the next person comes and like, that's the best job I'll ever get to do. I'm a lawyer of my trade. I've had a pretty good life, but man, standing there hugging those people and then like, someone like you, like if you, let's say like two or three years from now, you come and you do the badger, everyone will remember you from this discussion because the people that run the race are the people that listen to the podcast too. And they're like, oh my god, actually, kind of take a picture with you.

1:34:05You know, it's kind of fun because all these people that have been on the show are at the race. And you know, it's like a community. It's a real, it's a real big community. People bring couches. They go to like, uh, uh, salvation army and they buy couches and they put them all at the finish line. So everybody's like hanging out at the finish line all day. We have like kegs of beer and unlimited beer for as much as you want. People just hang out. It's a, it's a real fun community type of hang. So I love that. Yeah. That's how it should be. One of these years will get you in math. But after you go to your, your comrades and if you need any South Africa tips too, let me know because I've, thank you. Probably about a month and a half there altogether. So just Cape Town's the shit. You got to go to Cape Town and you got to do it so far. You know, those are two things. All right. Well, I wish you luck. I appreciate you all your time. Tell Matt I appreciate him to and hopefully someday I'll get to do him as well. You know, maybe next time I'll have the boat. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. I would love that. He would love that. So thank you. It's great. Thank you so much for having me. Always great to chat and see your happy face.

1:35:05And uh, yeah, thanks for a. And if people want to know more about you or follow you, uh, where should they, where should they go to look for you? Yeah, they can come on Instagram. It's ash kickin. No, I just as H K I C K and. And we're also doing a run club once a month with I or once a week with I fit starting in a couple of weeks. So you can come run with me and just obviously online, but setting questions, all that stuff and be like, feel like you're a part of what we're doing this year, the impossible year. So yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be a good time. Hopefully make some waves and show like what we do out here as an ultra runners and our crazy idea of a party. And if you can do me a favor, have Matt send me the link to the run club and I'll put it in the show notes so people can just click there to go. Oh, amazing. Okay. Thank you.

1:36:47Thank you. Thank you.