LIVE CALL IN-SHOW: Why Are You Not a Christian?

0:00Whether it's a movie night or just midday, Skinny Pop is a salty snack that keeps on giving. Made with just three simple ingredients for an irresistibly delicious taste and a large serving size that lasts. Deliciously popped, perfectly salted. Skinny Pop, popular for a reason. Shop Skinny Pop now. This is the Inspiring Philosophy Podcast with Michael Jones. On this podcast, we'll tackle tough faith objections against God and Christianity. If you'd like to support Inspiring Philosophy, visit InspiringPhilosophy.com-giv. Those Christians know they need to get serious about apologetics. See more objections online, attacks on scripture, deconstruction stories, you name it. And the hard part is, it's not always obvious where to begin defending your faith. You can watch a bunch of random YouTube videos, read a few books, save a few clips, and still feel like your understanding is limited. That's why we built Inspiring Philosophy Academy.

1:00Inspiring Philosophy is very own apologetics training center. It's a cutting edge apologetics community designed to help you become more confident, informed, and equipped to defend your faith. Inside we have a full apologetics course, twice weekly group calls with trained apologetics coaches from the Inspiring Philosophy team and regular interviews and lectures with the top scholars exclusively going over topics such as biblical studies, philosophy, theology, science, and more. Instead of trying to figure out everything by yourself, you'll learn inside a structured environment with serious thinkers, real coaches, and Christians who are learning alongside you. This is for the Christian doesn't want to settle on shallow answers. It's for the person who wants to understand deeper, think more clearly, and become the kind of believer who can handle the hardest questions without hesitating. You're ready to stop guessing what to do next and start learning any serious apologetic school. Join Inspiring Philosophy Academy today. Hit join and I'll see you inside.

2:02Join Inspiring Philosophy Academy today. Link is in the description of this episode. Are you searching for a deeper understanding of your faith? Inspiring Philosophy is your go-to resource for exploring the rich tapestry of Christian thought. From biblical archaeology to philosophy of mind, we dive into the topics that matter. Our content bridges faith and understanding, offering insights into God's existence and the reliability of the New Testament. Join a community where faith meets reason and discover the answers you've been seeking. Inspiring Philosophy, where faith meets understanding. Excellent. So guess what? I think I can now bring in guests from TikTok. So if you're watching on TikTok and you're a non-Christian, you can request up. However, we also have to remember that TikTok is awful and they've already penalized the stream during the countdown.

3:04So yeah, that's TikTok for you guys. You're like, this contains content that violates our community guidelines. I was like, okay, I don't know what to do with any more with TikTok, man. But if anybody's watching on TikTok, that means they're not going to send it out to everybody because this is a danger of stream according to TikTok, the lovely algorithm over there. But you should be able to request up on TikTok and then you should be able to hear us on here in Streamyard and then we can stream that to YouTube and vice versa. Yay. And TikTok rewards us by penalizing the stream because that's TikTok, ladies and gentlemen, that's what they do. But yeah, we should be good now to stream and pull in guests from TikTok. We got a bunch in the queue over here. So I've got like six or seven guests already queued up. So I'll bring the guys in one at a time. Thank you for gifting five inspiring philosophy memberships.

4:06Thank you so much. Sky scraper says, I hope Muslims join Atheists are boring. You can take that Atheist. You can take that. You can take that. Listen, they're not going to join because Muslims are cowards for the most part. There's a few brave ones here and there, but they run. They don't want to the more you know about Islam, this is the more terrified they get. Like when we first started doing these streams, we had Muslims coming in like crazy because they didn't really know they thought they catch up on us off guard. Like Paul Williams came in. What's that guy saying like Dean responds was coming in. Now they don't do that anymore. What why G. Yeah. You know why. But yeah, we'll talk to you ever. That's the one thing about you know, what happens with these streams. Please keep my family and your prayers my father passed away on the eighth. We are confident. We will see him again, but it's still tough. Sorry to hear that. We will keep you in the prayers. Jay sorry to hear that. Mike what Mike what's your makeup routine? Well, first I start with a splash of water.

5:06Then a little bit of moisturizer and then I and I roll out of bed. I do that all in bed too, obviously. What do you mean what's my makeup routine? How dare you even assume I would do such a thing. This is a manly channel, sir. I do not do makeup. So anyway, let's bring in our first guest here. No one knows me. Are you there? Yes, I'm there. Well, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm good. What about you? I'm good. What are you? Are you a atheist Muslim? What's your religious background? Yeah, I'm a Muslim. I'm doing that. Awesome. That's great. We too. We've not got a lot of Muslims called in when we do these. So that's great. So why are you Muslim? I hope so. So the topic is right now is. Is it Jesus being God or is it Islam? It's it's it we're just it's pretty general today. So I want to talk about it. Yeah, what about it?

6:09I want to talk about Christianity. So I've been following you for a long time, like for probably six months or more. And I thought that you have some good arguments, but eventually I came to a conclusion that you are also just like other debaters who pick up things and make things up. So all of your shadows name is inspiring philosophy, but there is nothing inspiring. So so I want to ask you what's the best proof of Jesus being God? Bring it. The best proof of Jesus being God. He said he was God and he rose from the dead. Where? That his claims were true. Where could he claim to be God? I have heard all verses all the proofs, it's so called proofs that you guys always bring. And they all get debunked every year and you you're trying to tell you always get built in by atheists, technastics, Muslims and you tell you then it should be easy for you

7:10to refute me when I bring up a verse, right? Bring something which should be an ambiguous or unequal, civil statement where Jesus cleverly says I've got and it doesn't need to be verbatim. I'm not committing verbatim policy, but it plays a thing which it which cannot be interpreted in any other way, not like that same, you know, BS template, I am the father I am and before ever him was I am. We all know that. So you should bring something which actually proves which is like an objective proof which is it been God? All right. Let me put this on my screen here. I have made slides on this very topic. So Jesus explicitly claims to be Yahweh and both Luke and Matthew explicitly claims the Yahweh. Now again, you said, I'm in a verbatim policy, right? No, I said I'm not going to commit a verbatim policy by saying where did he say I'm going forging me, but where did he say it?

8:11In any statement that I'm God? This is it right here. So this is in Luke 646 in Matthew 721. He uses a divine title by the double pocket of of Curety Curety. Now if you look at Greek text from that time and prior, no one and I mean no one ever call use a double pocket of a Lord Lord except for Yahweh and Jesus and scholars have noted this. Jason Staples, Michael Patrick Barber, Ed Comashesky, Robert Bum and Junior Charles Corals does as well. But as you can see, Jesus is this double-vocative, Lord Lord said twice, no one ever said that except for Jesus and Yahweh. Therefore Jesus explicitly claims to be Yahweh. I'm familiar with this argument. I'm familiar with you already. I always watched. Yeah, you've also, you were familiar with it. You should know this has been refuted. So according to you, it's been refuted. So refuted. Yeah. So I'm going to tell you something. You know, Lord Lord, we all know that the word Lord, also you agree that the word Lord

9:13itself doesn't mean that you are gone because even things are called Lord's in movies and stuff. And we know that what we repeat in Hebrew or even in Greek and in many other languages we repeat it word like twice for emphasis. Like Jesus actually means that not everyone who says that I'm his Lord and keeps saying that he's successful. But still if you want to make a claim like no, he is actually claiming to God, I'm going to tell you something. You know, Elohim is a better word. It means Hebrew and from Ilaha. Ilaha, you know, it actually means someone who deserves worship. But even this word is used for it. Hold up. That is false. Elohim does not mean that. No, it is very similar to Ilaha word in Arabic. Elohim is a very general term. It is used for demons, angels, even saw us, excuse me, Samuel when he died. It's Michael Heiser points out it's basically is a very general word that means anything

10:15in the divine or spiritual realm. It's a very general word. You want to refer to the divine name of God. You use a divine title like Lord of glory or Lord Lord or Yahweh or something like that. Yeah. And we always see in the Old Testament that always Elohim words used in first page of the book of Genesis one one is to say that in the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth. And Elohim, you are saying that it doesn't mean it did he, which deserves worship. Why? No, no, no, no, that's you that you can refer to a deity who deserves worship by Elohim. But it's not exclusive to that. It includes anything in the divine realm anything in the divine realm can be in Elohim. So it's just like it's a very general word word like in English we can say the Lord. We talk about God as the Lord, the Lord did this. The Lord said that. The Lord went here. The Lord said this, that kind of thing. But it's a general term. So same applies with Elohim in Hebrew Elohim is a very general term.

11:18So yeah, it's often used to refer to the God of Israel, the God of the Bible, but it's also used to refer to other beings as well. I'm checked. I'm talking about the actual word you are right. I'm not saying that it is only used for God in the Bible. I'm familiar with that Moses in Exodus 7 when it's called Elohim. God says to Moses, I've made you Elohim to Pharaoh. We know that this one has translations sometimes translated this way. I like Elohim, but the word like is not there in Hebrew. In Hebrew it is, I made you Elohim to Pharaoh. So Elohim itself, when I'm talking about the word itself, it actually, it comes from Elohim. In Hebrew, if I'm not wrong. And Him is generally used for plural or it can be like we can say that Elohim is a more general term for Elohim, which means God in Hebrew, but actually, Elohim, which is also similar to that in Arabic. The word itself actually means someone who research works you, but still this word is used

12:22for other persons in the Bible. Okay. Because I'm not even able to do it with the argument though. I made though. I mean, you're going on about Elohim. Deal with the actual topic. Lord, Lord is a title only ever used of Yahweh. And Elohim is more special. No, it's generally literally agreed. It's not. You literally agreed Elohim is not more special. And by the way, that doesn't matter because in the first century, Jesus was speaking airomac and Greek. So he's going to use terms and airomac and Greek. He used the Greek term Lord, Lord, to refer to himself. Therefore, he's declaring that he is Yahweh. Yeah, but my point is that you are trying to make an argument that Jesus is using a term which is special to God. But I'm saying it's not about how many persons other than God, the trombis used for it. It is about whether the title itself is special in any sense for God or not. Elohim is true that this word is used for many other persons, especially for Moses and Exodus 7 when I'm not denying that. But I'm saying that the actual Hebrew word, when we read Dixeteries, the word actual word

13:24is Eloha. And Eloha, which is also similar to Ida, it means someone who deserves worship. And that's why the word itself is special for God, but still what is used for other persons in the Bible. And the second point is we always say, we always insist that why the word is repeated twice. It is because in Hebrew or even in airomac, we use something twice for emphasis. Like if someone says Jesus is my Lord and he keeps saying that for emphasis that. Are you going to deal with the art? You're not dealing with the art. You're just going on these rants about Elohim and you're keep, you contradict yourself. You say Elohim means someone who is worship. It doesn't mean that. It's a definition that says that. You're not actually dealing with the argument in front of you. Jesus used a divine title only set of Yahweh. This has nothing to do with Elohim. Can you deal with the actual topic? Jesus didn't say, I'm Lord Lord. He said, whoever can read the words in front of you right now.

14:24Why do you want to order not to tell you? That's a rhetorical question. So he's not claiming to be God anywhere. He's saying whoever, why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I tell you? So I can clearly see that there are people who are claiming that Jesus is their Lord, but still they were not appealing to you. They were claiming that He's Yahweh and he was accepting that. And in the following and the other verse on the screen, he clearly said not everyone says to me Lord, Lord, enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the whole life of other in heaven. In other words, you have to acknowledge He's Yahweh and do hit the will of His Father who is in heaven. You have to do both. First of all, you have to show me from the Bible itself who claimed that Jesus is Yahweh from His disciples. Then you have to show this out to me. Okay, here's a quick question. Also, his disciples will decide that He's Yahweh. Where what disciples said Jesus is Yahweh?

15:26Okay, so you agree you should only worship God, right? Oh, the same argument. Prost-Kinil, I know what it was. I already been at home. Do you agree? Do you agree that you should only worship God? Yes. Okay, well, the disciples worship Jesus. So now you're appealing to the disciples, the disciples believed He was God. No, the word Prost-Kinil is also used for blowing down or to prostrate. It is not exclusive to worship. This is an end of the accident. According to the author of Luke Acts, yes, he only uses that word to refer to the worship of the one God. I'd not care about the author of Luke. I'm saying that word itself doesn't mean worship to worship only. You don't care how authors use words. Yeah, I'd not care about the author. What does he do? I'm saying that what itself doesn't mean to worship only. The authors use words differently. Luke only uses it to refer to the worship of one God.

16:28You just can't appeal to other authors using it differently to tell us how Luke uses the word. That's also false. First of all, it is not true that Luke uses this word only for worship. So when Satan said to Jesus, if you, if you, if you, it's the same word Prost-Kinil is used there. So will you say that Satan was saved Jesus? Where does he use it to refer to something that doesn't refer to worship of the one God? I can pull up references in front of you. Yeah, that's what I'm asking for. Wait a minute. But first of all, I'm asking you is the author of Luke, the author of Greek language as well, according to you. No, he's the author of Luke in Acts and he uses words specifically in a certain way. So that makes sense because Halibur example, a doctor will use a term differently than a mechanical. Based on how they're using it in their field, you have to look at how an author uses a word to understand what he means by the word. So you are now causing your personal standard on other people, which is not necessary.

17:31You know, amazing. He's standard on Luke. So first of all, why are you saying that Luke uses this word only for worship? Because he does. What's the proof? First of all, we have to show all verses in which, and then you have to compare. And then you can say that you are making. Look at all the verses in Luke. Show me one where he doesn't use it to refer to the worship of one God. I've looked. Okay, just give me 30 seconds and it is right there in I think you need to look of X or even in look itself, but even if it is in people collect X, X of the apostles, which was also author by Luke. So it is fine. LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot make your email response time faster. We can help you sell market and hire in one place. We cannot help you find space for your three desk drinks. And while we can't help you find the perfect volume for your presentation video, LinkedIn can help you find the perfect audience for your business.

18:38Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com slash small business. It uses an an axe eight seven or excuse me, axe eight 27 to refer to worship at the temple, for example. It uses an axe 1015 and then for Peter falling down as you can see on the screen in front of Cornelius and he says, yeah, no, don't do that. That's that's wrong. You should not do that. So there's an explicit example of that. He uses it in the speech of Stephen when he's criticizing the Jews for worshiping gods that they're not supposed to. So then again, there's a use in a negative sense, not using it properly. Acts 24 11, about going to Jerusalem to worship at the temple. There again. So over and over again, Luke only uses it to refer to the worship of the one God. And when he uses it in other instances like worshiping false gods or falling before Peter, then he in the narratives, those there were to betray negatively.

19:46Like he's correcting them like this is wrong. Don't do this. Did he fall out? Oh, he must have left. See if he comes back. Here he is. Are you there, man? Yeah. OK. It's me. Open look for seven. For seven. Yeah. For seven. The verse right before verse 48, then I had on the screen. Is that going to go this way? Yeah, we're going to be temptation from saying for Jesus. Yeah, Luke four, seven. Yeah, Satan is talking. What about it? So say and said to Jesus, if you, he was not saying if you, this is because we all know that translations are done by the Japanese and you guys are dishonest. So you will always know what's to also dishonest saying we're dishonest and not dealing with our arguments because you're running and scared. Can you actually deal with the arguments and stop the character assassination?

20:48Or I'm just going to kick you. I'm not going to waste time anymore. Actually, the word is to frustrate there because they say to Jesus, you have to frustrate to me. And he if you're infused. So what is the following with? What is it? What is the next verse say? So and Jesus answered him, it is written, you shall worship the Lord or God and him only shall. Bingo. Yeah, exactly. You're only supposed to proscuneo before God. So when the disciples proscuneo before Jesus at the end of Luke, they thought he was God. No, this is Jesus saying about worship, but say and when he said to Jesus that you have to frustrate to me. So this word, I'm okay, I told you already that the word trust can always use for frustrating for Bingo also. You've not shown me one example in Luke Acts where it refers to anything other than worshiping or falling before the one God.

21:49And also in the book of X. Book of X 1025, it is right there. The word is also used for frustrating. Yeah, what does it say? I'm talking about literally the verse I have on the screen. I had this verse on the screen to prove my point. Cornelius falls down and what is Peter telling me to do? Actually, this is a different version of translation, but in the word can also mean to frustrate you guys just reading yourself. This is your last chance. Give me one place where the word proscuneo is used in Luke Acts to refer to something that is not referred to the worship of the one God. So Luke was not speaking English. He always used the word proscuneo. This is you guys translating the word to worship just for your own desires. So what I can do, you know what? Goodbye. Good Lord, these freaking Muslims man.

22:51You guys are so biased and your arguments are easily refuted. All right, coming in refuted. Yeah, I can't do that. Don't ask me for a verse. I swear these people man. Your arguments are so easily refuted and then they panic immediately. Modern atheism. You know, hey, what's up, Mike? You get into a fight with panorath. No, because you're alone today. Yeah, okay. I can do. I can handle myself. Okay, I'm doing. So you know, I wanted to ask you about this. This thing called like the argument from religious confusion. Right? It's basically the idea like, you know, why like if you posse that there is a God that wants to communicate a religion to reveal a religion to humanity. Like you wouldn't expect a priority. A state of affairs were like 20% of humanity believe in one religion and they say 30% believe in this other religion and 20% this other one is a little like

23:55too divided like maybe maybe you will expect okay. 90% believe that religion and there is some lower amount of people that you don't want to believe. Let's say they are they've they reject that. Let's say maybe that you definitely will not expect like this massive division that we see in the world when it comes to religious belief. So what are you? So what do you think of that? I'm confused on what argument you mean here. People have different beliefs. Therefore, Hmm. Not a region. It's a version. I would say this is a version of divine hiddenness. But it's not like divine hiddenness is I think it's not just like there are some people who don't believe in God like APist. I would say that the stronger version is like religious confusion is like why does God allow people to be confused? Which is the true religion with what it was his message in this revelation to humanity, you know. So what do you ask God to do? He needs to make his message clear. Yeah, basically. Yes. Okay, it's clear. The by the gospel message is clear.

24:57Well, it's not clear for everyone that the gospel measures was the correct one from was the one from God. Right. It's not. Okay. We'll have 17 read at 1730 in times got over in past got over looked times of ignorance. We know he calls on them into repent or Romans five 12. I believe it is. Sin is not counted where there's no law or John 941 and John 1522. If I had not come, they would not be guilty. Now that they come, they've got no excuse. So it was made incredibly clear to the Pharisees. And now they've no got no excuse that implies that if there are people, honestly, confused nonbelievers, then God will take that into account when judging them. So what's the problem? So God will take, but surely there are some reasons possible for God wanted them to believe in in in him like in the in Jesus. Or rather than to judge him like already that the reason relevant to judge him. Surely there are other reasons why he wants people to believe in Jesus like generally. I'm confused on what you're saying.

25:57Yeah, you want to believe in him. Right. Like, I'm not just saying, this is part of the algorithm, but I'm not just saying it is on where that these people are going to help because they don't believe in Jesus. I'm not saying that it's also in general. If you think God revealed our religion to humanity for a reason, he wants us. That's he decided he wants humans to believe in Jesus. Okay, then why those didn't hear a reality that more clear way in a way that most of humanity sees believes clearly that the Jesus is the so is God, right? Okay, well, he did. I mean, he revealed Jesus. It is clear. It's a good it's a good message. The gospel message is clear. I'm not saying everything in the Bible is necessarily clear, but the gospel message is clear. I don't understand what you're trying to say because you're just kind of like vaguely talking and saying it's unclear. I would need specifics. No, how is that clear? Okay, okay. What I meant, it was it is unclear for humanity as a whole that the gospel is the message from the true God. You know what I mean? It's not clear for the Muslims, for example, that the gospel of Jesus is the true one.

27:01That's what I was talking about. You know, or did you know, get it? Hold on one second. I have to fix this TikTok thing. TikTok is going to be good anyway. All right, there we go. Let me remove that now. Okay, don't show this again. Okay, it's not clear as some people it's it's the message again. So if it's not clear, doesn't in these people are honest, like again, John, John 41, right, 1522 Romans chapter 5, I believe it's 513, Acts 1730, all point out that God takes those factors into account. Okay. So lack of information is not held against you. Right. Okay, well, I'm sure that the Bible acknowledging that the phenomena exist is the same as accounting for an explanation of why we'll go to want this state of our affairs, right? But,

28:01Helena, I just want to say that you said, okay, that the gospel message is clear. The message in the gospels is clear. Okay, I think, okay, how come I can take it even with that? How come there are so many different Christian denominations that constantly argue with each other if the message of the gospel was so clear? I would you want to expect this massive division among Christianity either. There is a huge division protestant scatolic authors. They're strongly arguing with each other. So why? Because humans are, because we humans are fallible. We went through the fall, so we get things wrong. We're not perfect in our reasoning. It means to be part of reality. Yeah, I think to say that something is clear. Okay, you say, oh, this message is clear, but humans are such as that they're not going to understand even a message that is clear. So in what sense, what does it even mean to say that a message is clear? If humans are like this, are going to miss on the subject. I don't ask your argument. Your argument is the argument of religious confusion. Therefore, your saying is not clear. Are you not to find your term? Well, it's not clear not clear to humans because we are so fallible and have so many degrees. It should have been even more clear so that it can overcome our

29:04possibility. Somehow, you need to be making specifics. You keep saying, well, it should be more clear or it's not clear. But you've not defined it. And then you get mad at me when I'm using the same terms. I'm like, what does it clear even mean? Yeah, exactly. You're the one who brought it up. When you ask how, are you asking me to give you the exact words that the Bible should have said so that they will not be confusion among Christianity? Sure. That's like, I cannot come up with all of that. Then you are against it efficient. Like, it could have, for example, Jesus could have clearly said, I'm going to live a church. I'm going to officially institute a church, a pope that is going to be my successor. Like, that's cool. That could have been super clear, for example. And there will be so much discussion about this. The pope, authority or not, or the Bible, for example. Okay. So he did. He did say he did that. He messaged you. We are set up a church. No, he did. No, he, but there was so. That maybe clear to you, I have potentiacly, but he knows that it's not clear to Protestants at all, right?

30:04They say that there's not clear at all. So it is just simply not true that it's super clear. Oh, I mean, again, you're just appealing to this unknown. You're not really showing me how it needs to be more clear. And by the way, if you study what Protestants and Catholics teach, they both agree both are Christians. So it doesn't matter. They agree on essential doctrines. The disagreement is over peripheral things. Like should there be a pope? Should priests get married? How, how, what, what do we say about Mary? How do we do communion? But they all agree on Trinity, version, birth, resurrection, the inspiration, the scripture, the important things, the essential doctrines. Okay. So like these are peripheral things at the end. Okay, I can't think of one important thing that is agree on. I will say by faith alone or by faith and works. And there seems to be two verses that conflict with each other. You have Paul saying it is definitely nodule works. It's because of faith that you're saved. And then you have James saying, no, if there are no words then you're afraid it's dead like that. And the protest protestants take one and try to spend the order

31:06or why Catholics take one and try to spend the order one. That seems to me a very clear example of the Bible being not clear on something that is very important. No, that's pretty clear because you have to read James in context. James is not saying that works save us because he's not talking about regeneration or justification. He is saying he's talking about the whole process of sanctification. That's why he says faith without works is dead, which Paul agrees. The idea that you have to, you're just the faith and you don't actually have the spirit regenerating you to do because you want to do the good, it would be absurd. You're going to do good works. That's evident that is evident that you have the faith that you've been saved. So what James is doing is he's saying, listen, if you truly have faith, you're going to do good works because your faith without works is dead. And so he's talking about the whole process of sanctification there. And this is brought up by Peter Crate, for example. They're both in agreement, but they're just talking about different aspects of how the process works. When Catholics talk about salvation, they're talking about the whole process. Regeneration, justification, sanctification.

32:06When Protestants talk about salvation, they tend to be talking about the initial regeneration point. The Holy Spirit comes into us in his Savedness and then he brings it to him through sanctification. So Catholics tend to use the word salvation differently than Protestants do. I have heard people like need God on this. And I don't think we're Protestants say salvation. They were like, oh, I just meant your initial salvation, but your eventful salvation does have programs. No, they meant salvation completely, the whole thing. So I mean, again, it's scrupically to you, but we have people like need God. We have very smart, Protestant, who are going to these other groups. I don't know what to tell you. I'm telling you, I've read in a scholar, like Peter Crate who's written about this. Peter Crate wrote in the handbook to Christian apologetics. He got a whole chapter on this. And he's going to have his own scholars say now there is another way to interpret this. The point is he's obviously not clear. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold up. So there's a way to interpret it so it works. No, the point is you can, there are different plausible ways to interpret this. And you shouldn't be the case. That shouldn't be the case.

33:07This should be one contradiction, but now you're saying there are plausible ways to make it work. So there's no contradiction. No, I mean, you can, I'm what I'm saying is you can plausibly, you can be smart and interpreted in what way A and you can be smart and interpreted in way B. So it's a big boost. It's confusing. It's not clear. And that's not what you expect from the Bible, right? Again, no one said all the peripheral things were easy. That doesn't change the fact that the gospel message is clear. You believe in Jesus and are saved. Yeah, I don't think that's a peripheral thing, right? How to get saved. We're afraid to save you. Both Catholics and Protestants agree that you'd salvation comes through Christ alone, believing in Him. Okay, okay. So at this point, we're just repeating, but I think some people will say, no, you have to do works, right? By whatever. Of course, you have to do works. Your faith is dead without works. Yeah, but the prosceness are going to say, no, you don't have to, it's not like you have to absolutely do work. You just say by faith alone. Yeah, but faith itself is a working faith.

34:09Faith is not just a magical feeling in your heart. Faith is active. It's living. You're doing things. It's like, for example, we can be an analogy. If I was lost in the woods, and a guy showed up and said, I can leave you out of this woods. Put your faith in me. I can't just go, well, okay, I'll just sit here and show this all work. No, I have to get up and follow him. I have to walk through the weeds through the jungles and get out. My faith is in him, but I get on my own two feet and actually follow him. This is why Jesus has follow me. So faith itself is not this magic feeling in the heart that you seem to be thinking it is. It's broader. It's more active and working. This is why James says faith without works is dead. So this is what Peter Craves point is. Catholic and Protestants actually agree on more than they disagree. The real disagreement is on when justification happens between Protestant and Catholics. Protestants think justification happens at regeneration. Catholics think it's completed at sanctification. That's the real disagreement. But this idea about faith and works. Protestants and Catholics agree. Read the Augsburg Confession.

35:11Read Augsburg Confession. Philip Melanchon goes into this and he's a Protestant. Okay. So back you were saying earlier, you think that people who have never heard the gospel, they can't be saved, right? God will take that into account. They can, they can be. Okay, they can be so that means those those those believe in Jesus do anything to increase you chances of getting saved. Of course it does. Okay, then those people who never had a chance to heard of the gospel, they still like the God of this advantage. They're because only because they played where they were born in. Because they didn't have the chance to hear other Jesus. But that will have increased their probabilities of getting saved. Yeah, that's why we spread the gospel. Yeah, yeah, that's right. But it's that's kind of unfair that these people have this just because where they played where they were born in. No one ever said life is going to be fair. Well, no, but this is this isn't we're not talking about their life things will happen

36:11in their life. We are talking about the way that God will judge them eventually when they after their life is over. And if God is perfectly just, morally perfect, imperfectly omniscient, he will judge everyone properly. Right, that's right. But that means he will judge the people. That means that hearing about Jesus, by how is it going to do with if the only that Jesus cannot give you an advantage if there are people that were born without the ability to hear Jesus that cannot help do anything to the salvation. That cannot be a relevant thing for the salvation. Right? Because what it was, it would be unfair. What do you mean? Of course, if God, if God, no, no, but God doesn't judge in an unfair way. So if God judges fairly, he cannot, he cannot be based on something that wasn't out of your choice, like all you control, like hearing about Jesus. Yeah, I don't understand. I mean, again, I'm a legal universalist. All that are in hell chooses without that self choice.

37:12There could be no hell. So there's nobody in hell who doesn't want to be there. Hell is the rejection of God. This is why John the Baptist said the Lamb of God is taken away the sins of the world. So hell exists. It's a real place, but it's only there for people who reject God. So if somebody hasn't heard of the gospel, God will do everything within his power to make sure they come to heaven. And he is perfectly just omnipotent, omnipotent, omniscient and morally perfect. He'll get he will judge properly. We are not in his position to know how to judge properly. He does. Okay, it follows from that that there is no need to preach the gospel to that person anyway, because it wasn't necessary for this salvation. Goal was going to judge and go was going to judge then frankly anyway. Yeah, but that doesn't mean they get a free pass to heaven. It just means hearing the gospel gives them a better chance of getting to heaven. So of course, we're going to spread the gospel because again, we're not saying not hearing the gospel is a free ticket to heaven, but we're also not saying it's a free ticket to hell. Okay, God will judge them properly. But spreading Christianity not only makes the world a better place as all the research shows,

38:13as it's been crucial for the development of science, educating the world, creating human rights. So it's made everyone's life better, including yours, but also gives people a better chance to hear the truth, and then they're more likely to be saved. Okay, okay, just this last thing. You say it gives them a better chance to go to heaven. Okay, that means that had they not heard of Christ because of Christ's or sorry, they conclude they would have had a worse chance to go to heaven. And that would have been unfair. Again, no one said life is going to be fair. I don't see what your problem is. Okay, like my home says, you have given a lot more information than like, but someone in the middle ages, but that doesn't mean you got to go and judge properly. He will judge fairly based on the information they got, but that doesn't mean their life has to be the same fairness level. His judgment will be fair though. Okay, man. Thanks. Okay, great. Thank you then. Thank you. I don't think he was really following, to be honest. Let me see here.

39:14V, are you there? Yes. Wait, am I up? Yeah, who's this? It's very fast. Yo, how you doing? What are you doing here, man? This is for Christ. This isn't for Christ. Wait, I wanted to ask a question. I wanted to ask a question. I wanted to ask the top apologist the question because... You can ask one question, but only because I like you. Okay, great, great, great. So, how would you prove the Trinity from the Old Testament real quick? Because I know you could do that. I wanted to write the takedown by notes real quick. I tried asking, so I'm shiming on his life. He literally just kicked me two minutes. That sounds about right. So, yeah, I wanted to know the... Did you watch my lecture that I just posted recently? No, where is it? Is it on your page? Yeah, let me show you. Did you just go to this one here? The Trinity is found in scripture.

40:16I go through a lot of Old Testament passages. So, I do more Old Testament than New Testament in this. Okay, so that video has got the Old Testament passages. Oh, a ton, yeah. Okay, okay, let me save that. Cool. Check that out, man. I'm going to get to some callers. Appreciate it. All right, thank you so much. You got this. All right, TikTok has been doing some weird stuff. And I don't know what the problem is. It keeps like ending the live on me. So, I don't know what's going on on TikTok. But you can request up on TikTok. But for some reason, TikTok just keeps ending the live on me. All right, let me see if this will work here. Boy, no, can you hear me? Yes. I'm just testing out for you, Mike. Well, I think we're good. I appreciate it, but I think we're good. Let me say something real fast. I don't know why the TikTok is ending. Hello, hello.

41:16Yes, Mike, I'm going to be with Bill. I don't know why the TikTok is ending. I'm delayed. Okay, are you there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's coming through just fine. But for some reason, TikTok decides that, uh, no, I don't know why this has never happened. It just keeps ending the live for some reason. So I don't know what's going on. But anyway, um, yeah, if you are a non-Christian on TikTok, you can request up and I'll try to get you in. I don't know why it's being stupid. Trying this again. Okay, but yeah, I just, TikTok is always problematic. If they're not canceling lives on me randomly, they're, um, striking my lives or they're complaining about it. So I don't know. Uh, Mark, fly, can you hear me? Yeah, could you hear me? Yeah, are you Christian? Uh, no. Okay, so what are you then?

42:18Well, as of now, I think agnostic would be the safest thing to represent my beliefs. Okay, so then why are you not a Christian? Uh, having come across like a sound argue that I could background, be like background, uh, having come from my side or? No, no, that was my fault, my fault. I got it though. Um, I always just wanted to check to make sure you were coming through on the YouTube. Uh, you're good though. Sorry about that. Um, yeah. Um, yeah, um, yeah, I lost my train up that. Where were we? You said I asked you why you're not a Christian. You've not said you've seen a sound argument for God's existence. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so let's start. So you don't think so you're even agnostic on God's existence. Oh, no, no, I'm sympathetic towards that. Like more of like a deflationary concept of God. So you would, you would be fine accepting that there is a creator of some sort then. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's fine. All right. I, so you're using deflationary, um,

43:22term, what do you mean? Like a minimalistic. Yeah, so like some minimalistic conception of God. So like, yeah, yeah, that's cool. Appreciate that. That helps me a little bit. I was just wasn't sure. Okay, so minimalistic. Okay. So then let's just talk about. So do you think there are objective more values then? I'm agnostic on like that type of talk. Okay. Uh, all right. Well, let's just talk about the evidence for Christianity then. Let's just go straight to that then. Since you're fine accepting some sort of deistic type God in the background then. Have you heard of the resurrection argument? Yeah. Yeah, but I haven't really like read up on the responses and the cases for it. I know like William Link. I seem like William Link crags a while back, but not too familiar with it. Okay. Well, I mean, it's pretty simple. So Jesus died by crucifixion on April 3rd in 3380.

44:25Died by crucifixion. And then a few months later, his disciples were claiming he rose from the dead. So here's the question we have to do. How do we get from point A to point B? This is actually something history and wrestle with. We have to explain the rise of Christianity in and of itself. How does a movement come out of a guiding crucified in the first century? Because when you study the culture, there's no reason for the Christian movement to come out. Christ Jews of the time were expecting a conquering Messiah. So when it's going to deliver them from Rome, when Messianic figures like Judas the Galilean, and Therogus, Theodis, Simon Barghiora, when they died, when they died, the movement ended and they dispersed. They got themselves a new Messiah. But the Christians did something that was totally unlike any other Messianic movement of the time is that they declared that Jesus as God and that this proves He's the Messiah, and now they want to bring Gentiles into the covenant, into covenant with Christ. This is completely unlike what the Jewish expectations of the time are.

45:26So we need to explain how we go from Jesus dying to them proclaiming He rose from the dead. How would you initially deal with that? If I'm understanding the argument, you're saying there seems to be some like high convergence on some fact that you just wouldn't expect Jews at the time to converge on, and what best explains that data is the fact that they're converging on is actually true. And the fact in question is just that Jesus like resurrected or like He was seen after His death. So my position would be the best explanation for the rise of Christianity is that Jesus actually did rise from the dead. If something else happened, like he didn't rise from the dead, what explains the rise of early Christianity and all the relevant facts around that? Well, I don't know why I suspect that people around that time, well, I just don't see

46:29why would that be like impressive data that like there is some like rise in some belief, because there's like tons of like rises and like pretty obscure and like opaque beliefs even today. So I just don't see that like a reason. There might be something to take Mormonism for example. Prior to Joseph Smith, there was a lot of different movements that believe Native Americans, the first peoples, were actually lost tribes of Israel. There was a lot of beliefs about buried treasures all throughout the Americas that people could find. And so since people were trying to connect Native Americans to the lost tribes of Israel, they were looking for buried treasure. He just picked up on the zeitgeist of the time and ran with it. That's why you got a lot of followers. You can do this with other beliefs as well, like for example, rise of Islam. Okay, so what you're saying, like, okay, we can just use Islam one because I'm more

47:29familiar with that than the Mormon case. So there's like tons of like early Muslims and they're like all converging and they're all like becoming Muslim. You're saying what explains that? There's like a better explanation that can fit that, that could, sorry, accommodate that data than the actual Islamic hypothesis. And you would say something. And what would you say in the Islamic case? I don't know if you mentioned it already. So I mean, like even their own sources talk about that after Muhammad died, there was like the umas split up and then they were following other prophets. There was a zeitgeist at the time about a bunch of people in Arabia claiming to be prophets. We see that there were other people claiming that. So that's that's the first issue. We also see that the early rise of the Muslim caliphate followed standard strategic battles of warfare similar to like what the Mongols or the Huns did. So it's rise and its prominence is not bad. Why is that like unexpected? What do you mean? Like what is like why is that data unexpected under like the

48:34Islamic hypothesis? Because we can explain it naturally. We can explain everything about Islam naturally. There was some crazy guy who thought he was a prophet started pushing all these visions. He's getting a lot of this stuff. He's according to the Islamic sources from like he's hearing stories from different traders. And then he's just repeating them and putting them in the Quran, that kind of stuff. So we can explain it all naturally. I'm asking you to do the same for the rest of the year. Yeah, well, I mean, you can explain Islam naturally, but it would still, you're saying in principle a bunch of agents converging on this fact is like just the feasible evidence for that fact. And in this case, just a bunch of people just believing in Islam and just believing in the claims of Muhammad should be evidence for Islam. I think that's like the same principle you're applying to this case about oh, there's like tons of Jews that we just wouldn't expect them to like accept Jesus as like a Messiah given a fact that like he died and like he raised and that wasn't just that wasn't like something that the assumed the Messiah was going to happen.

49:35So I think just the principles themselves are the same. So I just don't see how if one is an evidence for the Islamic hypothesis, then how would the Christian one be evidence for the Christian hypothesis? Again, you're missing my point. I'm saying we can explain the rise of other religions naturally. So if you can do that with Christianity, that's the challenge. We're saying there's nothing. No, but there's nothing there's nothing supernatural just about a bunch of people believing in some like some fat. Now, but you're saying, oh, if we can explain it naturally, then it's like not expected. But that's just like false. You can explain something naturally and it could still be expected. Like Islam would still predict that a bunch of people accept Islam even if you've explained like the your your your mission. You're missing my point. I'm I'm I'm agreeing with you. You can explain it both ways. You agree we can explain as well. It wouldn't be a response then. Then let's get back to the origins of Christianity. Explain how Christianity naturally arose and

50:37explain all the relevant facts because there's a lot. No, but I'm saying yeah, but yeah, this is the point because I'm trying to draw some symmetry with a different hypothesis, which if we apply the same principle would just be we would just say there is just evidence for Islam and obviously don't want to say it. So I'm asking for the relevant symmetry. What is and you said something about the natural listening, dude. Let's just get back to the argument from the resurrection because you're getting lost in this other thing. Do you let's just go you're out of the Mormonism, by the way. Do you both agree we can explain the origins of Islam naturally? That's not even clear to me like what it even not even means, but I think I could sign off on that just for the sake of the argument. I don't think we can explain the origins of Christianity naturally and I give the argument from the resurrection. There's a bunch of other facts. What does that even mean though? Like when you say explain it naturally or you're saying like there isn't some live hypothesis of where we're aware of that can accommodate the data. There is no live hypothesis to can explain all the relevant facts. So let's the common one using

51:40scholarship. Why should is that? Why should the disciples hallucinated the idea that Jesus rose from the dead, but that does not actually fit with the data we have about hallucinations or the early Christian data? Well, well now I suspect this argument would also be susceptible to like stocking horse objections. Did he just drop? Oh my goodness, TikTok is I am so done with TikTok man. Okay, this is the like the this is like the fifth time TikTok is just ended my life without thinking and I don't know why it's doing that. What is wrong with TikTok man? It is a horrible app. Every time I try to have a conversation or do something, they just yeah, we're going to end the live. Like I my goodness. Leave I are you there. Bonjour compadre, it's the how do I negotiate so many great travel deals? My greatest gadget.

52:47The price line app, it's got hotel deals, flight deals, rental car deals, all of those deals in a bundle deals, game day deals, concert trip deals, no one deals more deals than price line. Hold your horses, there's more. The app that you filter hotels by neighborhood, vibe, star level and amenities like pools and spas and beach fronts and wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting the price line. Yo, can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Yo, what's up? I'm P bro. I haven't been watching your videos for a long time. Cool. Like a year now, but I'm not Christian, I'm where. Okay, why are you not a Christian? Um, I don't think God is like logically compatible with the problem of evil. Okay, so why what would what would be the problem? Give me one second, please.

53:47I had just wrote out on my phone. So, God is all powerful and all good and all knowing, right? Yes. Okay, so God knows the future. Yeah, our actions that we will commit when he creases. Yeah, God knows the future. So the future that God knows cannot be changed, correct? Um, not technically now, but it depends on what we mean by that. So we could say there's like a timeline that everything will go according to the right. Yeah, there's a timeline, then God knows what's going to happen on that timeline. Yeah, by God creating that timeline, I believe that means that he's determined the timeline because we cannot change the timeline, right? So if God's determined the timeline, we have, we have no

54:47free will, right? And if there's no free will, I'd be Christianity as meaningless. So you said he watched my videos. I do. I did. I mean, I don't know more. You watched my video called the omniscience paradox debunked. No, um, I'm going to go up right now. I just lead up. Yeah, let's look at simple like this. So we don't say, God's, you're assuming fatalism here, that God's knowledge determines the future, but that's not what omniscience means. Omniscience means knowing, not determining. So God's omniscience is like an infallible weather barometer. It always accurately predicts the weather, but it doesn't cause the weather. The actions we decide today determines what God for new. Okay. So yeah, that does not debunk out at all. That's a common argument that's been known for a while. Over it. All right. Yeah. Um, I mean, I still don't fully understand the problem that evil though. Like even if you could say, um, God knowing stuff does not

55:47mean it's determined. I don't necessarily understand why God keeps evil around. Like, so like, why does God not send like all the murderers to jail or something similar to that? So he should just step in anytime a crime happens and throw them in jail. Well, yeah, if he's all good, shouldn't he do that? Well, he's all good, but let me, let me give you an analogy here. We understand that someone's ontology changes what they're morally supposed to do. So have you ever seen the movie The Butterfly Effect? Oh, no, I had him. Yeah, he somehow is able to travel throughout his own timeline, like, and he then does things different based on what he knows on the future. So he goes, he realizes that no, he's trying to end up with this girl throughout the movie, but every time he does that girl either dies or lives a horrible life in a bad situation. So he goes back to the past and then says something very mean to her so that she ends up like never,

56:49ever associating with him again. And then she goes off to live a good life. So we would say in that moment, he should not have said that to her, but we don't know the knowledge he knows. So that's an important thing there. So let's think, let's say, let's say I knew the future and let's say I saw a kid get thrown into a back of a van and drive away and I did nothing. And you came up to me, like, why don't you help them? And I go, well, I know the future. And I know in about five minutes, that car is going to get hit by a drunk driver. And everyone's going to be fine. And then those are the cops are going to show up arrest the people in the van. It's going to be okay. But if I did, if I stopped the van from going, that drunk driver would have hit a family like another like mild down the road and killed them. So it was actually better for this to happen, even though there's minor suffering involved, everything works out for the better in the end. Okay. So from what I understand, you're saying that God allows evil to happen because there's a greater good in the end. Yes, there is. Okay. I mean, I'll just, I would say that like,

58:01there's a lot of things that we can see that happen that we don't see any greater good come out of and instead we see like, like, like an earlier example, like murders or whatever, right? You could have a murder or kill someone and then he goes to jail and then he's a lifeline atheist until he dies. Like, there's no greater good that comes out of there under the Christian world. You like, I'll see his evil. So you don't see any good happening in that life. Therefore, that's the end of it. And God can see the whole picture of that. Well, yeah, do you believe it? Eternal conscious torment? No. You're a nihilist? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes it a lot better in my opinion. I mean, let me think about like this, that you cannot have. So what let's think about what God's goals are is God. So we're assuming often with the problem of evil, we're assuming a type of normative ethical framework without even realizing it. When we look at it, we're assuming like a

59:03utilitarian outlook, the idea that God's goal, his normative ethics should be to minimize suffering and maximize pleasure or well-being. But that's not really the Christian ethic. It's not it's not utilitarian. The Christian ethic is virtue ethics. So God's goal is to maximize virtues and minimize vices because that's ultimately going to lead to everyone being more satisfied in the long run of our virtues or maximize first. So God's goals now are to maximize virtues. But allowing an environment, a world where there is evil and suffering actually allows virtues to be maximized, you can't experience courage if you're never afraid, you can't experience compassion no one's ever suffering. So if God is not, is it use goal is normative goal is not to just maximize pleasure right now, his goals to maximize virtues, we would, it Christianity would predict a world of suffering temporarily until virtues are maximized and then they just dissipate, they go away.

1:00:09Okay, I would have to ask like could God have made it in like a utilian, a utilian, excuse me, I forgot to wear, I'm kind of nervous. Yeah, could he have made the world in that type of way instead of making it like in a virtue ethics type of way. So like instead of us having to suffer to know what's good, like we could just know what's good without suffering. So basically we just are moral robots, we just do good without ever choosing good. Well, I think we could still have free will even if like there was less evil in the world, we could still have free will right like So I'm confused about the kind of world, are you asking for just a world where everything is just hunky-dory perfect. No, I mean just a world where it's a little bit easier like I even think like just like evidentially I think it's kind of hard to believe in God like for that reason like um if you look at like ancient humans like a lot of the time they didn't have food to eat and they

1:01:11have to kill animals to get food to eat right and it's like I don't understand why God would make it like that because it just seems especially like unnecessarily difficult, why couldn't he just have a easier way for humans to get food or something like. So I mean you're you seem to just like want an easier life like that seems to be the issue here you don't want to like go through the hard work. Not necessarily it's more like a evidential thing like I don't really understand what God would make it this way is not necessarily about me. Okay, so if you were to pick so you're basically saying let's say you had two worlds you had a world with no evil in virtue in a world with evil and virtue you'd pick the world with no evil. Yeah, I guess. Well, let me ask you a simple question. What's your favorite movie? Uh click by Adam Sandler. The one where he travels through time with his remote. Yeah, that's my favorite movie. Why didn't

1:02:15you pick Teletubbies? Um it's kind of lame to me. Uh well you well hold up you picked a world with suffering and evil that is triumphed over and defeated in that movie. You didn't pick a world without suffering. Yeah, I never implied we couldn't like no of suffering. I just implied that like it would be better to live in Teletubbies still like it would actually be fun to live inside of the world. They're all happy. All those Teletubbies are really happy. They don't have no love. I'm not being dumb and happy. Not enlightened in virtuous. Yeah, all those Teletubbies are really happy. I'd rather be human. You just want to be it. Those aren't humans. Those are characters. Those aren't real. That's not that's not a life-worth living. That is not a life that builds virtue. That's basically just a pleasure machine. They just they just exist. They're just happy. They're basically brain dead for all they can. There's nothing really there and you you think those are

1:03:17souls. They could have more than the Teletubbies world though. You could have them like create like you could still have like a lot of complexity in a world where it's like a Teletubbies world. Like what complexity like what? Like you ever played Minecraft? You can do a lot of creative mode on Minecraft. You can build whatever you want. So there's challenges you need so you need challenges to overcome. It's not necessarily challenges. There's no challenges in Minecraft. Not not not creative mode as well. So that you don't build stuff and come up with new ideas and express your creativity anything like that. It's not necessarily a challenge in the same way that like find it food like before you die or your family does is though. Yeah challenges regardless of that's my point. There's still based challenges. Yeah, but notice what I say. I asked you to ask you a simple question. Favorite movie? Boom. You pick a world with evil and suffering that's defeated. You don't pay. You people vote with their feet. There's a reason

1:04:19the overwhelming majority of stories movies games we write are worlds where there's evil and suffering that is defeated because we recognize we recognize those are the best kinds of possible worlds. Those are the worlds we create because we recognize the best kind of world is a world where there is soul building. There is virtue building and there is evil but it is triumphed over and defeated. So triumphant worlds are the best kinds of possible worlds. Why wouldn't God create a triumphant world? Okay, I can't agree with that. I still do have like some more questions though. Are you like solar script or? I'm pretty ambiguous on that. I mean I tend to be because in working in the realm of well I mean with working in the realm of scholarship and apologetics it just makes life simpler for me but I mean like my personal beliefs on that I keep private. Okay, so God does everything for good since he's all good right? Yes everything works together for

1:05:22good for those who love the Lord. Okay, I don't know the exact scripture up the top of my head but I believe it's Amos right? God does something and he explicitly lay claims that he does what he does for not good when he does it inside of the book of Amos I have to find the scripture quick you know see. I can try to look it up but I don't know what verse you're referring to. So, all right look it up I will. Why is it my I have no idea what's going on with TikTok guys. It literally keeps like shutting down. I finally figured out I get TikTok guys and I can't keep it going for more than like five minutes. I don't understand TikTok man this is the worst app ever. I will keep it. I own that though. Let me know when you get the verse. Excuse me with that because I'm

1:06:29kind of underprepared I don't have to burst on me but I can a better one would be like what does God regret making Samuel or Saul King with her. He makes one of these two people king though and he regrets it like he explains to them I regret this even though he's all powerful and all knowing and I don't understand that like it seems like the Jewish people who are in it just seem like oh yeah God like their version of God was more of a human version of God that doesn't have these attributes of being all powerful and all knowing and Jesus had kind of changed it around just the way that I see it. It's what I see it makes sense. Let me go look at the verse here for a second because I'm pretty sure it is a specific word. Yeah so the word is a very very specific word in Hebrew that doesn't translate well into English so we translate it as regret because that's the best we can get but it's the same word that shows up in the flood account so when God regretted that he had made mankind this word just doesn't translate

1:07:34well from Hebrew into English it doesn't mean it doesn't map on to regret perfectly like I made a mistake that's it that we tend to understand regret it's more about God is sorrowful and he needs to take action so he's sad that a certain state of affairs had come out and he's going to take action to deal with it that's more likely what the word refers to and you can read about this in John Walton's commentary on Genesis we bring up the flood account it's not like the English word regret it's just hard to translate that word. I mean all right but why would God do something that's gonna make him sad though like I just don't it's just something that's hard for me to wrap my head around like why would God even make Saul kill all these infants and stuff like I don't even understand that why did they call it a melechite babies too. They didn't kill a melechite babies. They did it. Nope that's okay this is a misunderstanding of what's going on in this passage.

1:08:35So let's go to first Samuel 15 which is what you're talking about here let's just look through this all right so first Samuel 15 you know he's told to go kill them all. Now do you know who the emalachites were? Yeah yeah weren't they like pagan worshipers? They were yeah but they were raiders so the reason why God is very very angry at the emalachites is because they would raid from the back so when the Israelites are wandering in the wilderness the emalachites would raid from the back who's in the back who's moving in the back it's the the children the women the slow the sick the elderly the emalachites were raiders they would attack from the back and it basically go after the victims so God has basically said these people aren't just absolutely evil we need to deal with this but he's using so he's using hyperbolic language or stereotypical language so he doesn't actually say go kill them all and we know this from the chapter it's hyperbolic then Samuel said bring here to me a god the king of the malachites and a god came to him cheerfully god said surely the bitterness of death has passed. Samuel said as your sword has made women childless

1:09:39so shall your mother be childless among women so if Saul had wiped out all the emalachites why is king of god's mother still alive? Okay and you can see the emalachites show up later like if I just take this go up here to emalachites put it in there and I just go down to the verses in first Samuel malachites are in verse chapter 15 as we discussed but then look no they show back up the emalachites are in chapter 27 chapter 30 so the idea that they were completely wiped out is misunderstanding the the cultural context this is hyperbolic language. All right I mean yeah uh I granded it right but I guess did the final question I would have right before I head off here is why is there like so many logical hurdles into believing in god if god had written this like the Bible and stuff like

1:10:44it it is God's word right so yeah I just don't understand why it's so hard to believe for me and other people like it should be simpler I would think like if there should be less like physical explanations for so much of the things that we uh we hear Christians like talking about with miracles and all that and like why hasn't god ever done a miracle in my life why has he never responded to me when I prayed to him right I just don't understand these things because I was told I'll be able to move mountains by the Bible right I couldn't do that when I had faith. Well I mean that's again hyperbolic language that's not like you literally have this ability to move mountains I did a video on this earlier this year I believe maybe it was last year on faith on faith let me um hold up let me see if I can find that really fast and then refer it to you uh this this idea that um probably you just search for it

1:11:50this idea that we we somehow faith gives us the ability to do whatever we want uh yeah the title of the video is can faith get you anything so this is it right here I did it about a year ago can faith get you anything and I discuss it in this more but I'll explain it briefly here the idea that that's what faith is about it is no this is again Jesus is using typical hyperbolic language like he does quite often uh faith in God means when we ask for things we're going to ask for the things that God would want that's why people it's that's why we have become his followers so it doesn't mean we can like faith is like the force that we can use to get whatever we want it it's about putting our trust in God and then he will then move mountains in our life because we don't use faith as like the force we place our faith in God that he's going to do good things for us that's what that's referring to um yeah I would still have to ask like what what's he never done good things for me it seems as though like he's never revealed himself to me ever and then he sort of way I just don't understand that like

1:12:57if he was really real wouldn't he have a good or something uh I live in uh Michigan you live in the most wealthiest country in the human in the history of humanity and you don't think God is done anything for you yeah to be honest not really like do you have air conditioning it's not it's not necessarily like an on gratefulness thing right is it's just that there's like physical explanations for the fact that I have air conditioning and the fact that I have food but there I would like God to do something for me that's not physically explainable so I could actually believe in him because under Christianity that is the greatest good and no other good is even comparable to believing in Jesus but I can't do it like it doesn't make no sense to me so I don't know why God would never help me out with that or I mean like who who are you or it's God your butler like you just we call on him to do what we want Paul like you as Jesus is butler if you do whatever Jesus says Jesus is God he is of the divine

1:13:58essence I don't understand that's a far different Jesus was doing this to accomplish his mission you do whatever Paul is no we did it yeah we're doing miracles they wrote about all right let's I never did a miracle let's go to the scriptures here and then I'm gonna put this verse up on screen I think I think we should take a look at this hang on why is that up there we go okay I don't know why I went to all the translations but let me just go to the esv down here okay I don't know why I went to that one either whatever here we go three times I pleaded with the Lord about this that it should leave me but he said to me my grace is sufficient for you for my power is made perfect in your weakness therefore I will boast all more gladly of my weakness so that the power of Christ may rest upon me but the

1:14:59Sega Christ then I am content with weakness insults hardships persecutions and calamities for when I am weak then I am strong so Paul admits he's suffering from something and God is not removing it he's being insulted he's going through hardships persecutions calamities what do you mean he the God gave him everything you wanted you seems to me like Paul's just making a rationalization though like I don't know bro it just has always felt like every single time I try to believe in Christianity I just rationalize and rationalize and rationalize and it just don't make no sense to me like the most likely explanation oh you seems to not be Christianity like well tell us how to rationalize it well hold up you let's let's just go through the the the train of events here okay you asked me for you said that Paul was always given everything he wanted not necessarily what I mean but I mean I was being hyperbolic excuse

1:16:02me for that okay well then I like it but then you just tried to rationalize it to fit with your non-Christian worldview it has Paul the miracles in the Bible yeah it does miracles in ax yeah talks about it okay I was talking about the miracles though like I've never done a miracle a miracle if I was able to do a miracle and no that God was real then I would feel the exact same way as Paul right no one ever does a miracle for that in the Bible Paul was going around doing miracles to heal people he's going around doing miracle because he's evangelizing you just want to put on a show for yourself I mean yeah in a way but also you want to be a Jedi you want Jesus to be your force powers you don't want Paul when the disciples are going to do it it's not necessarily power is it's just about like being content with them believing God like if it wasn't a miracle I know it's some other

1:17:04way to have me be content with believing God I would have been just on with it so I mean again you're you're asking for something that a isn't necessary for b is for selfish reasons and is just completely not in line with the gospel Christianity does not know where Christianity never promises this stuff Christianity throughout the gospel promises hardships persecutions insults life isn't going to work out for us it's going to be a hard life is what he were promised and then you come along and you're like well I should be able to do a miracle so that I can believe in God this just this is coming from a place of self-centeredness not from actually seeking the truth Christianity never promises these things no no Christianity never promises you can just do miracles of believing God you we literally just went over where Jesus has said earlier about moving mountains you said oh yeah that's hyperbolic but that he is definitely like a promise made to Jesus his

1:18:09disciples about them being able to do extraordinary things right so yeah they're gonna do greater things than spreading the gospel around but that doesn't mean it's a guarantee that anytime anytime you want to do a miracle we can just bibit-bibibu no it's not about me doing a miracle it's about me being able to have like a faith in God that I can actually trust like okay and I was never given that and that's the problem like and that's why I don't believe in God because dude what he really just really knows very selfish and not doing that right this just sounds it's like a very selfish thing not necessarily a selfish thing it does sound very selfish I don't know what to tell you man it sounds like you're saying like okay God here's my deal I'm coming to the table with a deal okay I know I know you you died for me you resurrected you I do not know that that's something I don't know have you studied the evidence for Christianity yeah okay then have

1:19:10you been able to refute the resurrection refute the resurrection just because my fridge don't got no milk in it doesn't mean the milk got up and walked out my fridge in that refutes the resurrection how I mean it kind of refutes itself it's just an extraordinary crime with with insufficient evidence ain't it what's in it what's extraordinary mean extraordinary it's not physically possible for someone to come back from the dead right exactly that's why there's insufficient evidence that's why I need evidence of God being real to believe in it or as I'm not going to believe in Jesus getting up from the dead unless I like have some proof that there is supernatural otherwise the most rational thing would be to believe the physicalist explanation of it instead which is he was probably moved from the tomb instead right so he was someone had to move them or incorrectly placed them or how you know whatever had happened that is not him getting up and walking around after dying like then why did the disciples report that

1:20:13they saw him alive and walking around uh I don't know why they reported that but I don't really think that changes anything because a couple of disciples saying that they saw him walk around after he died is not extraordinary evidence that's not good enough evidence you're not even to find extraordinary I can just saying all my evidence is extraordinary it's extraordinary because you've used the term extraordinary in an ambiguous undefinedable way so I'm sure I'd define it though I did because I'm saying like a supernatural thing like God bringing Jesus from the dead is something we've never seen anything like that's a supernatural thing right so I would need evidence for that that is good enough evidence to believe something that is supernatural like okay then then you're not actually defining what would be sufficient and good enough evidence you're just saying it's not good enough because what would be sufficient and good enough evidence

1:21:14that I don't know like Jesus talking to us maybe like how about Jesus comes in the actual right now and talks to me or how about that doesn't refute the actual evidence we do have for the resurrection it's just again obchifting the goalposts but the actual evidence we do have for the resurrection is just not all that is not that good why do you just subjectively don't think it's enough therefore it's not enough but that's not a reputation logically it's just not convinced logically it's just not enough to believe in the resurrection why if we can go over to evidence piece by piece and I'll tell you why like logically I don't really think it is enough to why what do you mean why like it I just quite simple like this right it's simple like this when you know let me explain something when you go to a historical different different is you do like an historical conundrum you offer different hypotheses the one that can account for all the data while being the least ad hoc while being the most plausible is the best explanation that is the resurrection

1:22:18argument there was no other explanation that can account for all the data like the resurrection hypothesis can therefore it's the best explanation of data if you're at retort is I'm not convinced that doesn't show the resurrection the hypothesis is wrong I'm saying it's not the best explanation for the data because it's not the most plausible because we know people don't get up and get up from the dead people don't resonate never seen that happen wait wait wait wait wait you've never seen it therefore it never happens yeah I've never seen anything like that before so I have never seen I believe that would happen like have you ever seen a man walk on the moon yeah I have a shalee oh really I've seen that on a video yeah yeah yeah I was a thing I had seen a video of a man walking on the moon like way before that so and that's so the evidence plus plus literally the entire government like it's taught in schools right with sufficient evidence for that because we know that it is completely possible to build a rocket

1:23:22and launch a man to the moon because we know automatic and stuff to do this with the rocket like we notice what you just said we don't know resurrection notice what you just did you just went and appealed to all this evidence as that's the best explanation I agree what why can't we do that with the resurrection then go through all the evidence and then go to what's the best explanation because with the moon landing there's a bunch of people who think the moon landing was fake out there and they're wrong but they offer a ton of reasons to explain this away and they say actually our explanation is the best and then you and I go no it's not it doesn't account for all the data the actual data is best explained by NASA going to the moon so I'm doing asking you to do the same thing with the resurrection we evaluate all the evidence and then we go with the best explanation of all the data yeah so after evaluating all the evidence about Christianity I would just go and say oh yeah it's just a myth that developed over time like so Paul now you're saying no amount of evidence is

1:24:23going to continue you're just going to dismiss it as a man hold up you're you just said if we go through all the evidence you're just going to say it's a myth that developed so you're saying no amount of evidence can't get you going through all of it though not like I said offer a better explanation than offer a better explanation of the resurrection excuse me offer a better explanation for the origins of Christianity and all the relevant facts that is better than the resurrection yeah it's just a mythological development Jesus had never resurrected and instead it just was written in like that just like Joseph Smith right so we have three people proclaiming that they had seen the the golden stones right it's like the same evidence pretty much as three people that had seen Jesus or Israel like well back up you said it was a mythological development that is false and scholars don't think that because again we have the creed of 1 Corinthians 15 which shows this was being preached within a few years of Pentecost that's not a mythological development they believed in this resurrection very early on

1:25:26okay I mean uh how do I explain this like Bonjour Compadre it's the how do I negotiate so many great travel deals my greatest gadget the priceline app it's got hotel deals flight deals rental car deals all of those deals in a bundle deals gain day deals concert trip deals no one deals more deals than priceline older horses there's more the applet you filter hotels by neighborhood vibe star level and amenities like pools and spas and beach fronts and wait I'm not done stop cutting the ice line uh it doesn't necessarily like just because it developed in a few years doesn't mean like that it's not a myth though I don't understand that so what's a myth then

1:26:26like a false belief right so like it's a false belief that people believe so within the lifetime of the eyewitnesses a few years they were all fooled natural into believing something that just wasn't completely false because that's not a myth the myth is something that develops long after these supposed events okay excuse me then my my my semantics aren't clear to my fault okay so then then what happened why are they proclaiming Jesus rose from the dead a few years after panic cost uh like I don't really know but I don't necessarily think that it makes a lot of sense to like make the logical jump that oh they believe that Jesus rose from the dead so that means that Jesus must have rose from the dead because I'm not like you got other people who are like oh yeah Joseph Smith he really did have these golden tablets and they had believed just like immediately they just immediately believed that Joseph Smith had these golden tablets and they

1:27:27even went to die for these golden tablets like this did they because like Martin Harris left the church after he allegedly saw them through the eye and he's like I'm going murdered though like some of them are murders again Martin why did some of those who allegedly saw like Martin Harris leave the church and he said he saw it through his his mind's eye this pretty much what Paul said about Jesus no he didn't where do you say he saw Jesus through his mind's eye his he literally describes a dream of like 500 people seeing Jesus don't he I literally just had it on the screen here for I delivered to you as as a first importance when I received a Christ died first in the accordance with the scriptures that he was buried that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures now he appeared to see for us then to the 12 then he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time most of whom were still alive the semifalented sleep then he appeared to James then do all the apostles so now he doesn't say this was a dream these are living eyewitnesses that are still alive in his day I'm up this where there's a different like a different scripture about that but I'm gonna just I'm gonna just leave it at that bro I'll come back on your stream at a

1:28:32different time and I have more written up and I'll be more prepared so we can better have a conversation I challenge I apologize for not being correctly prepared just on to I just think that's fine I mean you thought it would be fun to join but that's fine talking with you bro oh that's fine here's what I here's what I want you to do for me if you want to come back and talk please do we love to have you back but research the evidence for the resurrection what we're asking you to do is here's what you have to pause it to avoid a resurrection the disciples experience multimodal group hallucinations this happened for the women at the tomb and for the disciples maybe more than once skeptics like James and Paul also experienced something then for some reason they made up a story of women discovering the tomb which were to destroy their ancient case in a very misogynistic culture they came up with a belief it was completely unlike what they believed in the cultural background they claimed this in the very place their enemies had the means and the motives to debunk them then they voluntarily suffered for the claim that they should have known to be false and this just happened to a man who was known to be a miracle worker in some out thought he would

1:29:32die and rise there's a ton of data out there so I'll let you go now man but I encourage you to research this and check more into this because it's a lot harder than you think but anyway thanks for coming all right let me knock out some of these super chats let me check on TikTok let me see if it's still sucking because it's TikTok and TikTok sucks I have never had a good experience oh low and behold live visibility restricted I don't understand what I'm doing wrong on TikTok but like every time I go live they restrict they penalize they'll just end my life like you know rhyme or reason we just ended your live it is the worst ever there is no reason we should be using this app my son is a furry what should I do take him to church counseling that's creepy and weird talk to your local church pastor get them involved and see what you can do and if he's so he's beyond he's already

1:30:36an adult pray for him I mean sometimes you have to just let the prodigal son go out and experience life unfortunately thank you so much for becoming a channel member I went on my first Muslim live and did pretty good by proving Jesus was not Muslim with the angle of him holding many of God's exclusive titles and attributes that's good Eric keep it up that's good to hear keep doing that kind of stuff a good book is Jesus is Yahweh theology equals humanitarian interpretation in light of the identity of Yahweh is a true God by Alice L host thank you all check that out I'm not Christian anymore because I disagree with the idea of outsourcing your morality to an innocent third party who's an arbitrary excuse me blood sacrifice especially when real harm real harm has been done to people this is such a strong strong man in caricature it's absurd okay we're not outsourcing our morality we are called to do good crisis our Lord now and as our Lord he tells us to go out and do the good

1:31:41so we still have to do the good and Christianity has it has made the world a far better place than any other ideology and it's not it's not a this idea that Christ is not laying his life down he says in John I am the good shepherd I lay my life down for the sheep he went and took the sacrifice for us it's not like this was thrust upon someone on willing so this is a total caricature shake it off how do we show evidence the gospels are earlier than the second century if someone's position is that there are later love you shake God bless you proud calf calf that's great how do we show it as the gospels are earlier check out my video why the gospels are early I have a whole video going over all this data showing the gospels are early that should help you all show you a lot excuse me what's fair for everyone what's fair for everyone to go to hell I don't think modern atheism wants fairness exactly that would be fair readings from Germany thank you chat pray for

1:32:45the collars mic and ip and ip team thank you 4.34 the like button subscribe and donate to ip please do links are in the video description just curious have you all interacted with any of Christ before Jesus worked dude lies more than dowel bros but a lot of tiktok Christians by it I think fan has a little bit but i've not interacted that much with it uh how long as long as Christianity overcomes death and more likely true than other religions it's our best chance no matter how likely it is open questions good point single guy unsure about marriage any advice um not sure what you mean man you're single and you are and you don't not sure if you want to get married maybe don't maybe go into mission work maybe go into more full-time ministry stuff not not really sure what kind of advice you're asking that's kind of a thank you so much for gifting five inspiring philosophy memberships hi ip I thought about joining but I don't know if my

1:33:47questions would apply how would you say who's a Christian different denominations of firm different councils so who's to say is a Christian I believe it we it's about affirming the essentials death resurrection atonement virgin berth second coming uh the trinity inspiration a scripture these essential doctrines about what the scriptures teach the very clear doctrines that is that's why we exclude heretics at the nigh of the trinity because it's clearly in the bible matter how much they whine about it uh let me see if I can do this okay hold on one second I'm gonna see if I can oh my gosh I gotta do this do this it never does that anyway there we go now it should work okay and then let me close bring in a guest here see what I can do um all right Kevin can you hear me how you doing today are you muslim

1:34:58so I got a bunch of guests right now I'm gonna talk to some other ones but appreciate it all right nothing's in the tic-tac live let's bring up another guest Marty are you there yeah i'm here how you doing are you Christian um no not okay what is your religious belief um guess just agnostic for now man just trying to you know uh what's Christian for a long time but um not anymore so all right well why is that why why are you not a Christian yeah I think i mean there's a lot of reasons but I think a simple one was just understanding and learning about the you know the compilation the redaction history of the composition of the bible and you know going through that and learning about

1:35:58you know certain certain redactions um and then seeing how things came together and then also contradictions that you know I overlooked before but then you know once you start seeing some things you can't really see others so um I think that's just it's kind of the main thing on my mind why would you need to know specifically what we're referring to like the Torah are you talking about that or like what else um yeah I mean if we wanted to point to like a specific example um in terms of like redactionistic history I think of like the accounts in genesis you know where we've get the doublets of the creation account and then you get the doublet of Joseph being so on this slavery um and then you see

1:37:04I can't remember the specific chapter but you the song of Moses you know where you start um uncovering where they scholars had once theorized where it says um um the inheritance of Israel or the inherent uh visual yeah I know what you're talking about yeah I'm gonna do it around me 32 um yeah probably I don't have a pulled up my man I'm sorry but yeah I mean I did a I did a whole series on the documentary hypothesis and showing that there are no these doublet are made up yeah I mean I've I've watched through your videos I mean you have to forget man I don't remember everything you said but yeah I just I did one on genesis 37 here as well who sold Joseph into slavery to a thousand Joseph yeah I just don't think I mean I guess I didn't find those things particularly convincing you know I mean um because you have all of these

1:38:08accounts you know and we're not I guess we're not necessarily talking about the documentary hypothesis as it's originally proposed you know you have joe bait and things like that it was trying to bring it back but you know we're just talking about redactionistic history you know like you can see where these things were edited you know and so when you start to kind of peel back those layers um that's one of the things that's when things start to fall apart you know um really I'm I'm kind of confused because I don't I think a lot of that stuff like a lot of that series is responding to joe bait him like Genesis the video Genesis 37 is very heavily a response to him showing that he is just he's completely wrong about Genesis 37 the idea there's two creation accounts I don't think that at all I think for example Genesis one is talking about assigning functions to the cosmos and then Genesis 2 is very specific about focusing in on um specifically it's focusing

1:39:10in on the land of Eden so let me give you an example what people often do with Genesis 2 so if we go to that people think this is about like another creation story but notice what it says in verse 5 when no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field yet spring up for the Lord God not cause it to rain on the land and there was no man to work the ground so this is talking about a specific land where there are no cultivated plants because it says bush of the field plant of the field that is a wild region this is not a new creation account this is specifically focusing on this place called Eden because it gives us our geographical location here and it's basically a wild chaotic terrain but there's no man there to work the ground in the sense of cultivating it so this is not another creation account this is after the cosmos have been ordered and functioned now he hones in on the specific area called Eden and then places a man there whether it wasn't any and there was no cultivation yeah I mean and I think coming from like a perspective of having to find a

1:40:20solution I can I can understand that what all in talks about that right like are we really doing that are we really doing this oh you're just finding a solution we'll hold up I literally went to what the words of the passage say it doesn't say there was no plants it says there was no small plant of the field that's the how do I know that you're not just like the skeptics are not just trying to force it to contradict is it a me trying to force it to work yeah I completely understand that Mike and my apologies I'm not trying to say I was talking about me okay like in the past so like no shots at you brother um appreciate your work I well I'm trying to say it's like I think when you come not not you sir like in general when someone would come to the text and they're trying to make sense of it and they want to make sense of it and I think I was doing that for a long time and like I know John Walton I believe it's John Walton who has that form and function idea you know were you were you line it up and I think even Tim Mackey you know you've got that form and function

1:41:26but at the same time while I think that's interesting I think that's cool and regards to this particular passage I can also see you know someone's argument like Joel Baton I think even Kip Davis where they parse it out you know I know you and Kip had kind of like responses back to each other a couple years ago I watched through those videos but um oh he hates me let's not be he's very he's a very emotional about it yeah yeah this is an emotional topic I think for a lot of people so I can understand that man um but yeah so I guess that's what I'm saying it's it was seeing those things and but it's one after the other you know and then they compile and trying to you're trying to figure out trying to source it out um and then I think I mean if I I mean moving on from the red action it's the history I you know for the longest time didn't want to see contradictions either but then I started to find that for well we'll bring up one example of

1:42:31Judas's death you know where you know Matthew he's talking about Judas and he's talking about you know hanging himself and the blood money and it's not just one contradiction right there's there's three issues in that text especially when you're comparing it to Luke you know Luke he has the field um he's walking in the field dies in the field um versus Matthew where um he doesn't purchase the field goes out throws the he so he throws the money I mean you know this already I mean preaching to the choir um he throws the money back they purchased the field for or not for him but um and you know they call that field the field of blood because it was purchased with blood money so you have the issue of why is the field named the field of blood one Luke its name field of blood because he legitimately dies and spills his blood in the field and Matthew it's because they purchase it with the blood money and then and Luke you know he's he's walking and he he falls I guess he dies and then in Matthew

1:43:36he hangs himself um so you have who bought the field why is it named field of blood and how did he die and then if you trying to harmonize those you know you can say well well uh one thing I'm sorry I'm sorry my girlfriend wasn't hearing myself so it's hard I don't know if that's on your mind I'm not here in double I don't know what the problem is you're hearing something I mean like first of all there's a couple issues already it doesn't say he was walking in the field in the burst open it acts I'm not sure where you're getting that like acts eight acts one just says uh now this man acquired a field with the reward of it for his wickedness and falling headlong he burst open in the middle of it in his bowels cushed out it doesn't say anything about him walking in his just he just like so I'm not sure where you're getting that from um yeah you're right

1:44:39that's then that's fine I'm fine with redacting that um just saying yeah falling headlong versus versus under wherever you're reading yeah Judas acquired the field with the money he made as a warfare strategy falling headlong yeah I'm gonna regard this he's falling he's dying he's in the field that's why it's called field blood um he's not hanging himself you know and you can go to the classic well he hung himself in the field then he'll die but I think again that would have like you said well he's not walking in the field like well he's also not he's hanging in the field like so we want to well I mean I don't think this is much of a contradiction he hanged himself and then of course so Matthew's just saying how he died and then Lucas just explaining the effect when the body fell he burst forth I mean some bodies fall off ropes if they're actually not sturdy or a branch breaks or something I mean like yeah I don't know if you're you're you're tripping that to him already being in the field but he didn't purchase the field what did Luke doesn't say he

1:45:43purchased the field it says he acquired a field yeah you can look into that if you want I mean that he acquired the field and Luke he didn't purchase the field in Matthew he's not exactly on his they bought it well I mean like yeah that that would make actual sense and in a in a simple harmonization of course the chief priest bought the field but they're not going to put it in their own name because again they say that we cannot put this back into the treasury since it's blood money so they don't want to be associated with this money at all now it's blood money so who are they going to buy the field in the name of well Judas that's where his body is so it's his field this is his problem we don't want anything to do with this so Judas acquired the field the priest bought it like they gave the transaction and it was in his name yeah but just I think as you said well the text doesn't say he was walking even though some of how he was in the field and he fell asunder it's like well was he flying like was he walking was he sitting down I mean again you're

1:46:43making inferences and I guess we want to say the inferences valid but the word and Matthew I again dude I'm not don't have this pulled up brother but it's different you know they they bought the field this wasn't Judas buying the field and Judas left and I guess yeah again you can use the ambiguity of the time here but Matthew seems to make it clear that he went out and he hung himself he didn't wait around and then hey they bought the field I'm going to go check out this field that they bought with the money I gave back and now I'm extra guilty so now I'm going to like hang myself you know well you you've added a bunch of the texts it doesn't say we just go on what the text says this is very easily harmonized so why force contradictions by adding context it's not there we're not though like you're the one well I shouldn't say you're the one that sounds accused or what I'm saying is we're both making inferences right you're referencing that well they

1:47:46had to buy the field on behalf of somebody else because they want to be associated with it that's on in the text and what I'm saying is it seems clear that or it seems unambiguous that what Matthew's implying is that he gave them them the money they bought the field and he hung himself prior to any of that happening or at least he wasn't waiting around to kill himself and you know he wasn't waiting around for them to buy the field and then he heard oh hey they bought the field it's actually in your name because they want to be associated with it and now he's walking in the field the field he acquired according to Luke it's those things right I think you're trying to match the other I think you get well again where is the idea of walking I mean you keep adding that into the text like that's what happened but that's not what he says okay fine he's not in the field sitting in the field I don't know he's in the field no no let me let me explain to you what what I'm trying to argue here okay okay this is very insimplial harmonization based on what the text is so Judas takes the money back to

1:48:47the chief priest he throws it at them and they there's two two timelines going on here he goes after some random field and he hangs himself the chief priest have this money and they're like we don't want to associated with this this is richly unpear we can't put it back into treasury what do we do with it hey Judas hanged himself in the field oh okay well that since it's his money we will use the money to purchase the field under his name therefore he acquired it and then when the body was hanging there it fell and burst burst open like that that both the world's in the contradiction okay so you're saying and correctly if I'm wrong he juice went out hung himself and then they're buying the field after the fact yeah then then Luke would sorry axe would still be incorrect because it says he is in the field which he acquired this is now this man acquired a field with a reward of his wickedness and falling headlong he burst open in the middle of it his bowels cushed out right it seems

1:49:49to imply that he's already acquired the field he's in the field yeah yeah he he before he his buddy fell he had acquired the field you're right right so it couldn't be the what you had just said because you're saying he died and then they bought the field it doesn't say that though it just says yeah he it says that after he had acquired the field his body would have burst would have fallen burst out and his guts would have poured out basically so that that actually fits no because you're saying in Matthew he went out and hung himself and then the chief priest heard hey he's dead and so they say okay we're gonna use the money that he gave back to us and we're gonna purchase the field he already died yeah that's what he said but Luke or axe is saying he's alive he's already bought in the field he's acquired it and now he's going to die so let's go to axe one I'm just gonna put it on the screen here so that we are on the same page because I don't think we are right now okay

1:50:53so axe chapter one where does it say that he's alive in this when this is happening it says this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness and falling head long he burst open and all his guts yeah it seems to imply the fact that he acquired the field while he was alive he acquired it with the reward of his wickedness it makes no mention of the fact that he felt guilty or remorse it's not saying that someone else bought it on the his behalf I guarantee you if you look up that word and the original coin agree acquired it's going to be unambiguous that the person who bought the field is the person that they're referring to as Judas it's not going to be this could be somehow a third party transaction it just means acquired man it means it basically means that he obtained ownership of this it doesn't mean that he actually did himself but it does look it up where I'm Michael I feel like you know the resources or any resources if you seven times in the New

1:51:54Testament it never necessarily means that okay like it's talking about obtaining gifts and gifts are not something you got and get they're given to you for example like next eight twenty so like this idea that acquire means he has to go and do it is something you're again reading into this my point is is that what you're seeing in a contradiction is a lot of the stuff that contradicts it is stuff you've added to the text like him walking in the field him getting it himself all are saying look at the verse it says now this man acquired a field and for the reward of his wickedness and falling headlong he burst open there's nothing there about him dying in that instance it could just be again the effect of him after he it was hanged yeah but you're adding things to the text too man like because you're trying to harmonize and you're saying like the first thing you said and tried it or harmonize it was well they've heard that he died and so they're using the money he gave back and they're buying the fields like there's not in the text either you're just trying to make it work well here's the difference the difference is quite simple is that we assume

1:52:55the principle of charity here there's no idea to think there's a contradiction in here and there are reasonable facts from the text that we can use that support harmonization we don't do this with other things like if we're gonna if we have different accounts of like holocaust victims we don't assume they're contradicting it their country this is what you know the deniers do they'll try to say oh yes you know we know that this is just proves this is all fake and we're going to know there's a simple way to harmonize this stuff it's not a big deal like look at the way you use it that kind of stuff as an example okay so but in fairness I feel like the principle of charity in your mind for this particular text you wouldn't apply to someone else you know if they had asked you to use the principle of charity for I don't know I'm not familiar with this long man but for some sort of Islamic text you know they would accuse you or you would accuse them of begging the question or or or being unfair you know and then you would say or they would say no you got to use the

1:53:57principle of charity if you're like I feel like there's no reason to be like extra charitable to make things up like you're saying I'm making things up I'm saying you're making things up but we're just both reading the same text if even if I do that that still would be just an ad hominem like you're just appealing to the man that doesn't mean that's the right thing to do here Bonjour Compadre it's the how do I negotiate so many great travel deals my greatest gadget the priceline app it's got hotel deals flight deals rental car deals all of those deals in a bundle deals game day deals concert trip deals no one deals more deals than priceline Hold your horses there's more the app that you filter hotels by neighborhood vibe star level and amenities like pools and spars and beach fronts and wait I'm not done stop cutting the ice slide LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business we cannot make your email response time faster we can help you sell market and hire in one place we cannot help you find

1:54:58space for your three desk drinks three and while we can't help you find the perfect volume for your presentation video LinkedIn can help you find the perfect audience for your business grow your small business on LinkedIn learn more at LinkedIn.com slash small business yeah I I'm just not I just don't think that the principle of charity would apply and this particular case when such great harmonization is needed because I feel like you at the same time you know you're getting hung up and just adding the fact that he was walking in a field but you're the one who's trying to make up this area where can you explain what is what do you mean by great harmonization like what is so great like what am I doing it's just beyond reason in terms of harmonizing what specific facts well like I said I mean I think you just go back to

1:56:00what's what is the where are the key issues in this text and there's three it's it's not just one right we have the issue of who purchased this field we have the issue of why it's named the way it's named and then we have the issue of how did he die now you're trying to harmonize all those things when the text clearly says two reasons why it's named like he is named field of blood not because Judas died in the field in Matthew it's named that because the priests bought it with blood money so someone already knows that the priests are buying this with blood money it is blood money so you you saying well they don't want to be associated with it it's like dude someone already knows that it's associated with them they know they would have to because they know what's purchased blood money in Matthew but in you acts it's saying this is what I mean this is what I mean the things you just brought up as contradictions were based on things you ran into the text because

1:57:01you said well one of the contradictions is who purchased the field but again the verse in front of you doesn't say that Judas purchased the field it says he acquired because you're not taking the time to look at that field you know you say you're acquired oh I acquired this present that was but that's a transaction between two parties both involved in a first person way it's not a third party on behalf of somebody else does it say Judas purchased the field it says he acquired it great so acquire is not the same as purchase though so how does that contradict Matthew do I'm sure we could find a number of texts that say purchase or possess or acquired yeah again we're talking about English now I mean it's different words in the Greek that and but that's what I'm trying to say if we look up the original coin a Greek word all right let's go here's my thing though you just kind of admitted to us that your contradictions are not

1:58:02based on what the texts actually say so for example who purchased the field well they don't say if it would be a contradiction if it said if Luke said and Judas went and purchased the field and then he went out and then walking one day his his bowels cushed open so what you're saying or contradictions are not even there so okay but it is there Michael and I'm where okay let's take a breath I'm listening yeah catch the old man okay a primer verb to get and acquire by any means it's done to possess to purchase to provide for one stuff so again the idea that he is buying this or acquiring it wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait did you just read the definition on strong according concordance no this is blue letter okay which yeah I guess they use

1:59:03strongest coins but I wasn't using strong I was using just an outline of biblical usage um if you want I can try and go whatever whatever I was just going to the first one I had remembered um but if you have a resource if you have low-goss or whatever pull it up I'm going to ask you to that before but uh I don't know I'm just curious why aren't you rereading that from because when I pull up the word it just says it does not mean to acquire it just means to obtain provide purchase yes it's a very general word in acquire purchase yes but the point is that you're acquiring it yourself it's not a third party so you saying well the chief priest didn't you want me to say I'm reading in the text like no we're taking a very plain sense of the the word acquired and purchased and it was him who purchased it wasn't someone else on his behalf the text is not you you're reading into it this idea that he has to acquire it himself when the word does not

2:00:05mean that dude I just explained how it does mean that so let's go to Acts 8 20 the same word as he was there but Peter said to him may you're silver parish with you because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money yeah like again it's about a gift of God and he's saying you can't do that he's saying you can't you can't purchase it you can't purchase it yourself yeah but that but my point is it's just a general word it doesn't mean you have to go do it yourself you can acquire something without doing it yourself like he can do himself he had his money he was trying to buy my kids have acquired toys and clothing without getting them themselves we just got it for them so the same word is understood great you can acquire stuff without actually being the act of purge you're avoiding the context and there's nothing look on the screen there's nothing in the context it says he actually did this himself yes it does with the reward of his wickedness it's it's explaining how he obtained it it says this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness

2:01:06great that's right okay it doesn't say he went out and purchased it with his but it also doesn't say this man acquired a field by the third party of which he had given the money back because they didn't want to be associated with it which is what you were saying okay look at what the verse says does it not just say he acquired the field with the reward of wickedness yes okay so in a hypothetical world could he have acquired the field by someone else purchasing it for him not okay could I say this could my child should you as a child because you have parents could you say I acquired clothing with the reward of my good behavior by being a good child yes but that's the same context of what we're talking about right now and but did you because I'm giving the cob because instead of instead of using money they used the they used their good works yeah but it wasn't like their grandmother coming in and giving them a clothing and then

2:02:11saying oh you acquired this with your good works what are you talking about their grandmother gave it to them their grandmother exactly you could use the same language in that sense I acquired a gift because I've been a good child okay but this is not a gift this is a one-to-one transaction it's it's there's no guilt here there's no guilt here in Judas' part in acts it's saying the reward of his wickedness that's the author's interpretation of the money and he's saying this is how he purchased this land this is how he got this field it's not saying he threw the money back and someone bought it on his behalf and it's definitely not saying that it was bought in after the fact of him dying Marty does that language can it be compatible with somebody acquiring a field purchased through someone else not in this text no so you cannot say I acquired a field because I've been a good

2:03:14child from my father yes you can't you're agreeing with my point we're not saying a third party bought this field Marty very simple and a hypothetical world let's say my parents passed away and I acquired a field from them because I was a good son did I actually have to go out and purchase that field no so I could say I acquired a field with reward of my good behavior yes but you're still so then Judas so then Luke could also say Judas acquired the field with the reward of his wickedness without actually doing it himself because you just agreed with my analogy that same language works okay I agree with what you're saying but at the same time I think that you would be assuming more of the text than I am in order to achieve your harmonization the the differences is you will

2:04:15admit now that your contradictions are from what you've added to the text not what I have no I'm not what I'm saying is the two texts by themselves can work together in a in a in a in a very plausible scenario I don't think that at anything I think your harmonization your plausible arguments though assume a lot more than what I'm even trying to propose you're you're you're saying at least when guards to Matthew okay I know we've been focused on this particular verse for a while but if you go back to Matthew you're saying it's named field of blood because they bought it the field after the fact he was already dead like you're there's just so much time in between so they held on to the money the entire time that he was going out and he's gonna die and then you hear from the grapevine I mean this happens pretty this happened in the evening Judas went out and

2:05:16hanged himself and they can't put the money back in they find out few days later hey that guy the hanged himself right he's over in a field oh now we know what to do with the money and then that therefore we're not associated with anymore we're rich really pure yeah you just that's what I just said so they're waiting they're waiting to know what to spend with his mind they can't put it back in the real estate dying they're doing it post-hoc bro bro it's Passover they're busy like you're not going to be doing this all this is not the only thing on their plate but my point is that you're assuming a lot in the text you're saying your your contradictions are based on things you assumed in the text the text doesn't say so how's this contradictions if it's based on inferences that you've made because we're not okay I don't know I've tried to make it clear Michael like it's not listen man I'll I don't know what to tell you man I don't think we're getting anywhere have a good day I don't want to tell you because like this is this is absurd man

2:06:17you're telling me there are clear contradictions and I'm like listen there's a way that this can be harmonized where we don't have to add to the text and your responses but he was walking in the field but he bought the field it doesn't say these things the very things you're bringing up as alleged contradictions man are things that are not even in the text so how can I take this seriously as this is a a major error to reject the resurrection like is there even nothing new with the resurrection Jesus like Michael Kona thinks there's resurrection and the Gospels and he still thinks Jesus rose from the dead how is this the reason the reject Christianity is beyond me and I'm not going to keep doing this for an hour all right faithful servant are you there uh hello there's another guy about what's here before me so you should bring him there's a lot of people that have been coming in uh in and out it's been and I it's the problem is that people come in and out and then I get confused

2:07:20about the order so I thought you were already here earlier maybe someone with a similar name yeah it's five yeah who are you specifically referring to a guy called uh noble sir a noble server you there noble sir going once noble sir going twice hey can you hear me yeah I can hear you yeah can you hear me yeah are you a Christian hello yeah I can hear you yeah can you hear me uh you have an issue man I'm going to tell you faithful servant are you there faithful servant faithful servant nobles okay that's what I mean like these people will like they'll come in and out and I'm trying to remember the order people came in

2:08:20Ellie are you there uh yeah hello hello are you Christian uh I was for a little while all right why are you not a Christian uh yeah so I honestly I'll you'll probably answer these questions easy I've seen a bunch of your videos so this might be easy questions for you um so I was just I looked into like basically like the historicity of the bible is what made me believe it wasn't really anything like philosophical go of sorry philosophical although I could probably bring that out but like it was mainly just um like how can we trust the bible if you know Genesis was written like really late I've seen things same I was like written in the uh I don't know like it was written really late and just like a lot a lot of the historicity issues like mainly I'd say one is like you know the Exodus and a lot of things saying it's like the Davidic kingdom kingdom was like not a vast empire like the bible describes it was more like a

2:09:24like a tribal kind of thing so uh and just also like for I seen a lot of your videos and I think they're really like well made and stuff but um I just think a lot of it is kind of like uh what's the sorry I'm tripping over my words I guess we could focus on the other ones for now I mean like there's a I mean I did a whole series called Exodus rediscovered on all the evidence for the Exodus like during the Ramazad period we a group of semites living at the city of avarice and then that city is suddenly abandoned during the time of ramazis the native Egyptians use it as a new graveyard site because some reason they needed a ton of graves then about 40 years later we have mernetta mentioning that Israel is in Canaan we have a population explosion of new sites that even like scholars like William Dever or Israel think we'll see no knowledge we have a walled city that disappears in Jericho we have avar we have huzuh excuse me huzuhr which is burned to the ground we

2:10:26have a site built on uh Mount Abal that matches Joshua's site we have Shiloh resettled so we have a ton of evidence for the Exodus all the archaeological data is there I mean we have a in at the end of the Bronze Age around like 1200 BC I mean tons of new sites just to bring up out of nowhere day novo and everyone agrees these are Israelite sites even people that deny the Exodus so would you say that like the number of Israelites is that like I've seen a bunch of things like I saw a few your videos on the ages and Genesis how those are like theological do you think that like two to three million uh Israelites do you think that numbers like theological too? yeah it's it's it's probably just exaggerated numbers this happens a lot in ancient literature like for example like Herodotus is exaggerating the size of like the Persian army and then Josephus exaggerates numbers like he says like a million people came to Passover and scholars are like yeah that's not likely it would have been around a hundred thousand maybe

2:11:27to fill the city they're not there could have been a million you know pilgrims for Passover so like how many do you think it would be like 20 to 100,000 somewhere in there give or take okay um and also like on the on the David of kingdom like you see a lot of I haven't really gone too much into that one but from what I've seen it just seems that like a lot of the scholarship is like David real wasn't like the David of kingdom was it wasn't really like this vast empire as a lot of the biblical text described and it was more like if it was a kingdom at all it was like a like a tribal thing well I mean how big do you think it was because like I mean yeah it was it was like a mini empire as a way like Kenneth kitchen would explain it okay so I guess like I mean pretty big if they wouldn't like I don't I can't remember what passage it was but like they didn't need so because they had so much money or like will go off or something like that

2:12:27um I could try to look it up but I don't know what you're specifically referring to like they needed it might be in Proverbs I am not I'm not entirely sure well I mean Proverbs is going to sometimes it's teaching morals and ethics is going to use exaggerated stuff it's not necessarily being like most accurate in terms of like you know it's going to use hyperbolic language so I mean like I mean like you have to think like when when first kings four mentions the extent of Solomon's empire it goes from the border of Egypt to the Euphrates river like this is not a vast empire it's basically just the Levant and then he even acknowledges like for example like Sidon and those Phoenician cities are outside of his realm so it's like just it's a stretch of land from the border of Egypt the Gulf of Aqaba and then up to about Euphrates and that's about it that's not like I don't think the biblical authors assume that David was like an empire like the size of Babylon or a Syria

2:13:30that eventually had yeah okay that's that's a good point um okay I guess another thing uh how would you like respond to the claim because I see you see a lot of like historical scholars when they investigate the I guess like a mess of a tamiya like that Yahweh was was not like he came out of like the pantheon thing uh there are no texts that mention Yahweh was in a pantheon what scholars will do and this is this is riddled with problems they'll go to a passage like Deuteronomy 32 where it says when the most high divided the nations uh he split them according to the number of the sons of Elohim but Yahweh's portion is his people Jacob is a lot of heritage and they'll go you see the most high divided the nations and gave Israel to Yahweh therefore he was like a lesser God that's not what the passage says it's using very passive language to just say that God acquired Jacob

2:14:34and so it's not saying it's not saying that the most high and Yahweh were different beings in fact if you read the whole poem the author clearly thinks that Yahweh is the most high because he says there was no God beside me therefore Yahweh is seen as the most high already in the passage and even Marcus Smith will acknowledge this that if you just look at what the author was doing he does not intend for this at all so this this idea is for put not sense there's no there's no ancient inscription that says Yahweh was in a pantheon okay um I guess I guess my biggest one I forgot to say it before but like I see a lot of your videos and they kind of seem to contradict the scholarly consensus I'm not saying your videos are like aren't well made but I'm saying like in terms of likelihood it might just seem that like you know you have all these people from academia and they all agree on this and that isn't like blah blah blah blah right um and just like why would you

2:15:38how do you defend your your claims with like a less numbered amount of scholars on your side the same way I'm doing it here I just go through the evidence and I go through the arguments and I go this is the best explanation and quite frankly uh as someone who has a master's in philosophy a lot of scholars are really bad at it and I don't mean that harsh it's just out of their field so I'll go through I'll read books and they'll constantly do thing they'll jump from possibility to probability they had an atheist brought on Joel Baton to respond to me once and like the atheist was like Joel this Christian saying that your arguments here are circular what do you have to say and you know what Joel Baton said yeah they are yeah they are but it's basically admitted he was basically employing circular reasoning to argue for his hypothesis and like I was like I was written my hair out I'm like then why are we putting this stuff out so I think a lot of the scholarship employs a lot of bad philosophy and they don't realize it like Michael Heiser said I wish that

2:16:39like scholars would have to take at least one class in logic and he was right because a lot of times they just employ bad arguments I don't know what to do I'm convinced that these positions are right and if I'm going against the consensus I don't care because I care about truth not being a sheep and following in the line with what the scholars tell me to think yeah that's okay um hey uh I guess I got a little bit of basic questions so I guess one um um what are your what's your best thing on like why the gospels aren't anonymous because uh we have unanimous attestation from the early church that it's Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John if they're making up names there's no reason to add Mark and Luke in there because they were people that never met Jesus according to the church fathers so like if you're going to throw names on the gospels you're going to Peter, Andrew the gospel designated for Jews was written by a tax

2:17:40collector which is you know like shooting yourself on the foot it's like it's like saying you know like it's like it's like today saying yeah this this this book written to evangelize the Jews are written by uh you know a holocaust anir it'd be like there'd be the dumbest thing ever you could come up with like one would take it seriously so but you have like Aranneus up in Leone's that's like modern day France you have Tertolian North Africa you have the Meritorian fragment coming out of Rome you've climate about like dandria you have papias over there in um modern day turkey does he what he names Matthew and Mark as authors okay yeah he doesn't name everyone but I mean there's a bunch of people also that name John like I think the office of anti-Aug names John but here's the thing it's like no matter where you go geographically and they all agree Matthew Mark looking John are the authors now here's the thing the church fathers contradict each other on things like they contradict each other on when the gospels were written some said Mark was written in

2:18:41Rome some say he was written in Egypt the disagree on who was present they disagree on the order like climate of Alexandria thinks Matthew and Luke came before Mark but then it appears as though uh Aranneus thinks it was Matthew Mark Luke than John so they disagree on all these details so that tells you they're not just copying one another but they all agree it's Matthew Mark Luke and John so they have corroborating evidence even though they have different traditions they're drawing from okay uh and I guess how would you respond I think I've probably saw maybe like a barter or a man or a damn clone saying this or it's like the gospels are written in like super high level Greek so do you think that like other things that are bad argument they need to read Mark Mark is written in really rough Greek I mean it really does a re- a re-click a guy that was like trying his best to translate stuff it's like like if you read in the Greek it's like it's very like very present tense like Jesus went here Jesus said this Jesus did this Jesus walked here and then like Matthew Luke had to come in and clean it up a little bit like it's

2:19:46so Mark is a very rough Greek and then when it comes to Luke yeah of course it's gonna be written high level Greek he was a physician he was trained like like love to Alexander and like Luke Van the way note that his his opening uh for the gospel of Luke mimics the style in some ways like of the major histories of the time and there's also medical textbooks so yes of course it was high level Luke was a high level writer yeah what about like for uh Matthew and John though like do you think somebody like they either learn to write it or like do you think somebody like help them like uh oh of course if you're the thing is that when um when Bart Irman was talking to a Jesus myth this is one time he asked him about like Paul and he said everyone wrote via a scribe in the ancient world like even Cicero is one of the best writers of the ancient world here would be a scribe uh so over and over again they just use scribes like in um Romans we see I tertiast wrote you these words so he's the scribe on that and when you read the meritorian fragment it says John was with other brothers

2:20:50including Andrew so there was so this idea that we have of like John went to his office in the back room and he wrote a gospel on his desk which they didn't have back then by the way they didn't have desk yet for some reason but he that didn't happen he he wrote this gospel with Andrew there with these other brothers there there was probably a scribe and they're helping him compose this this probably that's how gospels were written Paul's letters were written that way he even says in the opening of his letters there's other authors that are helping with this he mentions other names yeah okay uh I guess that uh solves a lot of my stuff uh I guess I got like a few super quick questions if that's that's okay sure uh okay so I guess actually this one is really like a super quick one but uh if this is a philosophical thing what do you take on uh Graham opi's view that like naturalism just in terms of like probability and like in what we see in like what seems like meaningless suffering that like naturalism just is uh more likely than like fears or creation

2:21:56well I mean like there's a loaded term in their meaningless if naturalism is true there is no meaning so what does that even mean like there there's a loaded term in what you said there I don't know if Graham opi is use that type of language but yeah you're you know it's kind of like sir it's assuming the conclusion that it is meaningless okay uh have you watched my video the problem of suffering a Christian response uh a little bit of it I haven't finished it yeah I would recommend that um for that kind of stuff also I have another video called how sci-fi and fantasy explain why God allows suffering you might enjoy that one as well okay uh I guess another a quick one uh what do you think of the NRSVUE translation should I get there I don't know I don't know I don't use I said to just use the ESV because it's kind of what I was using for the past like 20 years or 30 years I don't know I think a lot of the I think you should use a collection of translations to be honest do you mind if I go on you for a second first shot I just want to see you

2:23:04um why don't you come back like next week or something we can talk more yeah all right thanks so much I appreciate it all right nobles sir for you there now hey hey can you hear me now yep I can hear you yeah I'm I'm here all right what's up are you a Christian all right no I'm not a Christian sorry there's a little bit of a delay uh my audio just keep cutting out whenever I join but I'm listening on my other phone okay yeah um so what are what are your religious beliefs then are you there uh I don't hold any religious beliefs at the moment uh I was gonna like come up and bring an argument but yeah I'm here sorry what's your argument spare with me with the delay if that's okay I'll try to respond this fast possible but I was gonna bring an argument but I heard something that you said um uh how long is this delay because

2:24:12it seems like it's like five seconds this episode is brought to you by EA Sports FC 27 welcome to the world's game FC 27 is introducing the grounds where the streets meet the stadium connect with friends go pro and express yourself on or off the pitch play FC 27 with the ultimate edition September 18th learn more at ea.com rated e for everyone includes in-game purchases including random items the grounds is only available on PlayStation 5 Xbox Series X and S PC and Nintendo Switch 2 versions Bonjour Compadre it's the how do I negotiate so many great travel deals my greatest gadget the price line app it's got hotel deals flight deals rental car deals all of those deals in a bundle deals game day deals concert trip deals no one deals more deals than price line older horses there's more the applet you filter hotels by neighborhood vibe star level and amenities like pools and spas and beach fronts and wait I'm not done stop cutting the ice line

2:25:14it's like it's eight seconds it's an eight second delay I don't know man maybe you mean many check your system and come back I don't think we can have a conversation like we're you know have an eight second delay sorry I apologize man but this is this is way too much of it all day I counted it out Rajat are you there yeah can you hear me yep I can hear you how are you doing great I'm doing good so like my concern with you Mike is that the approach that you take to Christianity like like so when you say like Dan McLillan is like assuming a dogma you know or believes in a dogma yeah similar to how say a Catholic would believe in a dogma

2:26:22right but I think that's a bit too fast and loose with the term I mean because the kind of I guess dogma then I guess believes in is in the way that Dan believes in is different than what Catholics are supposed to believe the kind of insolability that Catholics are supposed to believe is much stronger than say what Dan believes with respect to like as you say it right like methodological nationalism I don't I don't agree at all I think that he just assumes they're not but we all have dogmas we use yes yes it's true it's true that we all have our dogmas yes but the kind of dogma that Dan like criticizes when he says like data over dogma right he is using the

2:27:23kind that I would say the Catholic Church and traditional religious views have proposed or like believed him right so the so it's like I don't think it's it's a huge it's a kind of good criticism of Dan McLillan in my I mean I don't I don't understand what this is the topic like like I mean like we'd have to go through specific examples and videos I don't know if we have time to do that like so let's just talk about why are you not a Christian yeah okay okay so I'm not a Christian because I find that general pism or like some kind of optimistic deism is much more plausible than Christianity that's that's I guess in brief now I you can ask me like reasons why oh if Jesus rose from the dead

2:28:25would that make Christianity true if Jesus rose from the dead would that make Christianity true I would say like even then probably not actually because yeah so there's a reason for that right if you have prior commitments such that the supernatural right exists in a way that say like okay there's God but there could there could be also some other higher power beings but there's let's say weaker than God right maybe they were the ones who did this kind of trick or something right like yeah resurrection sure happened like we could even grant that in that scenario but by the way I don't I don't actually you know believe that resurrection happened or like miracles happen but but like okay but in that specifically Jesus said

2:29:34like so Jesus the one who rose from the dead so he said this is going to happen to a tone for sins he said this is God's will he preached from the Jewish scriptures so why would we go with something unlike what the actual person who did it said was the reason for it yeah the reason you you probably should is because like given the kind of system that Jesus preached right the moral system that Jesus preached if that very strongly goes against the fundamental moral intuitions that people have and yeah I guess at least that yeah then I think that is a plausible reason to think that Jesus was a supernatural being but not necessarily God okay so intuitions are to find so vaguely so what do you mean by intuitions yeah so intuitions you can think of it as like I would consider them as emotional experiences emotional so so let

2:30:43me get this straight emotional experiences so if you have an emotional experience that certain ethics are true an actual resurrection doesn't override those like by actual resurrection I would believe that that is a supernatural event but to say to go from that supernatural event to God is a is a leap that I don't think is would be justified because of your emotional experiences yeah I mean it's like if Jesus resurrected and then started killing like a bunch of people and raping a bunch of people like would you say that that is God I guess that would be demonic but I mean like that's a dream right so that's in it here's a thing though that's an extreme example like that is clearly not what's going on with Christianity that's an extreme example yeah but he would preach like eternal hell right no I argue he

2:31:49preached like an annihilation to sell okay you you believe that he preached annihilation to still but like the tradition has been like he preached eternal conscious torment right and I mean I think that's like if there's any supernatural being that does that it sounds to me like he has to be some kind of a tricster an evil horrible supernatural being right very powerful like so you're not talking to someone who believes in that so don't worry about it what exactly is so evil that you would reject Christianity yeah as I said right like the traditional historical Christianity believed in eternal conscious torment that's one major massive reason but you don't have to believe in believe in that like I'm living proof of it right here so then what is the major reason to reject what Jesus actually taught if he did rise from the dead okay okay given like even your Christianity like where you say like you believe that he preached annihilationism right even

2:32:54that I think is very much not really omnibandivalent right not really godly like I think okay maybe it's not like totally as demonic as say eternal conscious torment but I would say still kind of still kind of like god allowing or killing a bunch of saintly and beings which he does not need to it's sort of it's sort of like unnecessary destruction so you're you're you're objected to Christianity is just going to be the problem of suffering that it sounds like yeah I think that is going to be pretty much a massive reason I mean I guess divine hiddenness also because Christianity uniquely says that god wants to have like a personal relationship with with human beings right all right well on that issue there let's talk about divine hiddenness it's just

2:33:55appeared before you right now would you have a personal relationship with him if he appeared to me right now like as in this higher so no no no I wouldn't say no this is something that like Paul Moser is pointed out like cognitively robust theism is different than just basic theism if god wants personal relationships with us that he knows about the best way to go about it it's not going to be boom here I exist that's not obviously going to work but actually developing a narrative story appearing in creation leading people with love especially when in a worse stuck in our sinful self-centered states this is a far better process that actually does bring people to know who he is because typically of a powerful being just appeared before us we're going to respond in one of two ways we're going to be fear we're going to worship about a fear or we're going to think oh this is a powerful being if I can manipulate him I can get what I want and this can be a self-centered response so so god going about it in a way that's kind of hidden is almost necessary given our sinful nature so okay but that like I don't find that plausible necessarily like I do I do get the

2:35:03I do think that it is plausible that god would like if he wants to have a personal relationship he would probably do something like say in in Christianity Jesus did or like in Hinduism Krishna or like Rama did in I do think that is plausible but the issue that I have is like the the kind of personal relationship that Christianity I think says because Hinduism does not say that by the way like I was a former Hindu I I don't subscribe to any religion anymore I'm just an optimistic deist um so the kind of a claim um that that Christianity believes in about personal relationship I think Jesus are doing that like say two thousand years ago I don't think that that is enough to sort of move me to think that um he is doing the you know personal relationship thing

2:36:08oh I know I know I wouldn't say that that's it it's like that's just the first step I mean this is I what my response was to your argument from divine hiddenness because I we could talk about suffering but we did that with an earlier call or I just want to repeat myself right now some focusing on divine hiddenness but with divine hiddenness that's just showing that hey if god wants to form personal relationships actually a veil of hidden is actually does help with that it's not the other way around I mean like that's not possible because like we are we are not chatting with each other right so like um I can see you right um I can hear you listen to you right I can watch your videos and stuff so it's it's like the and like if you were like offline right um like it would be more like I guess empirically um um certain I guess I mean again I'm using the word certain

2:37:09loosely here um so but god like wanting to have a personal relationship and being this hidden like I don't think it's plausible to to to think that um like that is uh something that is expected given Christianity right because because so and and I should even mention here's here's another important thing right so usually when relationships and friendships develop uh and this is this is I think the same with human beings and also many species of mammals right when relationship friendship or intimate kind of personal love develops that does require a kind of uh um empiricism that Christianity doesn't like Jesus did not do so far

2:38:10I'm I'm confused about your point there because you kind of went on for a little bit so what's the basic point you want to get at yeah so the basic point is that uh like Jesus just showing up like two thousand years ago in a in a in a particular environment in that situation and then like pretty much radio silence after that I think that kind of um um answer to to divine hiddenness is just like not really plausible like if he wants to have a personal relationship that seems to be kind of like a Hindu I know you come from a Hindu background but that that's not kind of like he's like kind of a Hindu understanding of what Christianity has done like the God shows up does some things and then goes away that's not really what Christianity teaches we think Jesus is still king of the world and active in fact in the gospel of John he goes away and the Holy Spirit comes so the Holy Spirit is still active the gospel said ask and you shall receive seek and you shall find knock in the door shall we open you we tell everyone if you earnestly seek God he will show up in fact

2:39:15right now on Instagram there's a trend going around where people are living his Christian for 30 days and God is showing up like one of the guys that just did started the trend became a Christian after 22 days because he felt the presence of God start to move in him so we do believe God is still active in seeking people it's not this idea that Jesus just showed up did his thing and then bolted off to like you know a planet somewhere he he's still here actively building his kingdom we just say there's a veil of hidden is still here because of the self-centered sinful nature of humanity that holds us back from who we're meant to be and so Cius Lewis says this he says the reason why hidden is exists is because we don't have faces we don't need like he's talking about metaphorical we don't have the proper eyes to see God yet we don't have the proper faces yet so when we're fully signified we will see him but as of now there is that veil of hidden is for our own growth and benefit so this is what the gospel's thesis is what christian teaches but God is still there and we tell everyone see come out see if he shows up we believe there's we worship the living God this is

2:40:21in the Old Testament and the New Testament we worship the living God so he shows up for people and there's all sorts of reports of modern miracles that we've documented on this channel for example so like even those sorts of so like miracles right and like I think Ethan Mews and like Josh made are like really into this miracle stuff right but I think one important point that I think naturalists made was that the the kind of miracle distribution that exists that is much more plausible the kind of distribution that is much more plausible given I guess some kind of nationalism or some kind of view where God does not interfere in the states of affairs

2:41:27come let me give you an example of a naturalist right Kamil Gregor he wrote this really good post on sub stack and in that post he basically argues that if we have a distribution of miracles such that such that you have these like people claiming miracles and all sorts of stuff for a long time right now if you if you give long time to something right to some kind of process that is mostly indifferent or like mostly random you would have some few scenarios where sort of like stars align and you would you would find that okay there is no natural way to like explain that or at least currently the phenomenon is unexplained by naturalism right but I mean that is expected

2:42:37on naturalism like that kind of distribution is expected on naturalism compared to say Christianity I think your version of Christianity too like um no I think there's that's just a general thing though that has nothing to do with what I was talking about I'm talking about your claim about Christianity just kind of Jesus ducking out and then and I said that Jesus is still active and we've evidence in miracles jumping to that has nothing to do with them saying and that doesn't deal with the individual cases and in all of themselves so we've a ton of different cases that we could point to I don't see that as anything to do with the evidence that I brought up for example so the like I mean I guess the evidence you brought is like miracles right and like religious experiences of some people who have like prayed to Jesus right I'm saying that everyone should do that we're saying that everyone should seek God I don't and this is again a response to divine hiddenness we're not saying that God is not entirely hidden okay okay so people all over the world

2:43:42like most people all over the world are like religious they believe in some kind of gods right so like what do you mean by like the seeking God like if they already have to pray to earnestly seek Jesus Christ oh so you are saying that everyone should do that yes of course okay okay so like should everyone do this with Krishna like some other religious I am all for investigating all religious claims because I believe that I'm standing on the truth so I think if you start to investigate those claims you're going to find them to be lacking in evidence or as in Christianity we have a ton of evidence for the reliability of the Bible and for the resurrection and then on top of that we have evidence in modern miracles as well so I'm saying that when you investigate this stuff you're going to find a ton of evidence for Christianity um yeah so

2:44:42so I don't think that that is going to that is how what things going to look once we do you want some medical evidence yeah I mean I guess it's prediction I guess it's prediction of you and me like do you want some medical evidence do you know what sorry you want medical evidence medical evidence yeah I mean sure like the the yeah I guess you can present it but the issue would way harder to do here dismiss them this is this is this is Stan he works for me people think in 1988 a three-year-old girl named Christina suffered from a terrifying seizure doctors diagnosed her with neurofibromatosis type one a genetic disorder that can cause tumors to form alongside the nervous system and in Christina's case the disease forms what's called an optic pathway gliome a tumor that affects the area around the optic nerves in 1997 unsolved mysteries actually

2:45:45documents her case and points out that progressively over the years her MRI scans show the tumor actively growing her symptoms continue to worsen she struggles with coordination she can barely run she says she can't even bring herself to get her feet off the ground to skip rope and then in 1992 her parents bring her to a Catholic healing service run by father Ralph Dioreo she gets prayed for and Christina records that she remembers feeling heat as she's prayed for and here's where the case gets weird because soon after she's jumping rope she's doing a bunch of things she has never been able to do and I can only imagine what it's like to be a mother being asked this question from a child like Christina because Christina looks at her mother and asks mommy why can I do all this stuff all of a sudden two weeks later there's another MRI scan and you can compare last year's MRI scan with this MRI scan and you can see massive regression in the tumor the case is also reviewed

2:46:46by medical specialist dr. Kevin Drake from UCLA now to be clear spontaneous regression of a case like this is possible but that's also why this case is so interesting because how do you explain the timing this was a symptomatic tumor that was progressively getting worse and within the context of prayer you have the onset of regression of the tumor and its symptoms to the point that this girl was able to jump rope and do a bunch of other things that she was never able to do before and we have the MRI scans that show the regression two weeks after she's prayed for could it be a coincidence sure but it makes much more sense that if Jesus was still alive today and still working that god healed Christina so we have dozens of cases like that or a jet it doesn't so yeah dozens right yeah sure so Christina got like a remission right now the the ashtan himself said that

2:47:50in both world weaves you have the possibility that yeah spontaneous remission could happen or it could be Jesus right now here's the thing went hand says that it was probably Jesus right like like the best explanation of this this healing is Jesus I would say that no I think doing this kind of individual case hunting and and doing like oh we have like say dozens of cases dozens of things like that but again you have to consider for how long human beings have existed right and when you consider that long time that long time that kind of this kind of distributions of say like dozens like that does not seem that impressive to me right and that seems like

2:48:52yeah so I don't I don't know why we're even doing this because you said even if Jesus did rash from the dead you wouldn't think christianity is true then like you're just going to explain this stuff away regardless um not necessarily so as I said if Jesus rose from the so if I could show you the proof that Jesus rose from the dead would you be a Christian um depends on what his teachings are his teachings are love joy peace patience kindness the fruits of the spirit spread the gospel baptized preach the gospel to the ends of the earth but but also annihilationism right yes bad people die bad bad people I guess you you might think like bad people um you know go to hell purgatory to suffer and then die I guess but but even then it's like why cannot he free habbitate you know reform them given his omnipotence right because that is what they choose all the

2:49:54d'ernhill choose it they're rejecting God because they don't want to submit they want to be the master of their own universe um I don't think that that's necessarily true so for example that is definitely the truth I mean but let me I'm gonna move on to some other guest man we get a bunch here but check out my video does God send people to hell um I have a black hair you there oh that's awful that sounds that sounds awful wait can you hear me oh sorry can you hear me yeah I can hear yeah I can hear you now what's up okay cool you remember me been here on here yeah you're cool well let's start off by saying I'm getting closer but okay not quite there okay yeah not quite there yet but we're getting close oh um just just kind of a transition from what that last guy was saying so you said you're annihilationist uh I just finished David Bentley Hart's book that all shall be saved uh do you give any credence to that I think it's I agree it's

2:50:54it within the orthodoxy I don't think universalism is heresy but I just are not convinced of it from what the scripture siege okay good okay yeah so um yeah but um I think if I were to go back I would probably be a universalist I mean yeah but anyway okay cool uh so I have a couple small things and then maybe one bigger things maybe we can mark knock the small things out of the way um so I watched a lot of your videos I think they're very good I think that yeah I answered a lot of my objections um I did not I haven't seen one on the on the book of Daniel though um there I think there's a pretty good arguments that it was written later and then it has some garbled history I'm sure you're aware of this um so for instance it says that Balthazar was the son of Navi-Kineser when in the secular history it's Navi-Knightis and Navi-Knightis was the one who is in Babylon when it fell to the Persians um well those didn't say also in the same passage that if he says whoever can decipher this I will make him third most powerful in the kingdom yeah yeah so the so the implication

2:51:55is that it's Navi-Knightis that's Daniel Fibrate yeah okay yeah I mean that's actually some interesting evidence there that I mean because typically they would say that the the standard phraseology means like that you'd be the second most powerful but he says third most powerful which is weird like who's if he's number one who's number two is the story as I mentioned it so that's just an odd like undesigned coincidence that seems to match the historical record he was number two right so you can get grand number three yeah um yeah and then there's also like I mean other issues like Darius the Mead isn't uh someone in secular histories oh I wish I could remember the name of that paper there's a paper written about this no I don't know if it's that he argues that a lot of the inscriptions we have of Darius are just vague Darius and there's actually I think it's in belt what is that there's a there's a Babylonian story and this comes later who writes that there was a guy named Darius um they're I'm just trying to remember it I got to ask my uh pastor about this because he did a whole study on this um there's actually some pretty

2:52:56interesting data that this guy was there he so basically the Meads and the Persians merged and Darius was in charge and then he just he gave it to Cyrus like Darius was like his father-in-law and that's why they're later than the Kings renaming Darius as well but yeah it's um there's some interesting research on that as well okay yeah I mean uh I mean I know you have your own thing but like I would appreciate a video on that because everything I've seen seems to point to the uh lake uh Daniel being written later in some of these historical inaccuracies I'm perfectly fine with the game written later I think it's I don't think it's an end all be all I think it's just like okay yeah it could be written later but it's putting together a lot of stuff that was yeah and yeah I guess I shouldn't say the dating is the problem the the apparent historical inaccuracies the uh yeah I mean I'm sure there's scholarship but I just don't like can't find it or missing it or something and then also like it names three Greek word they're three Greek words in the book that um two of them I think we're in a round of time so just stuff like you know just

2:53:57ran and stuff like that yeah okay anyway uh yeah so um yeah if I had more resources then I'd be feel a little more comfortable on that uh next one this has just always bothered me this is kind of a small thing um Luke chapter nine uh the feeding of the five thousand so of course you know I mean you've you talk a lot about the gospels and you uh talk about the charge that like they're written later like Matthew and just copy them um you know the uh criticism of uh editorial fatigue right yeah um so the yeah this you address this but I I wouldn't really convince him maybe you could help me out on this a little bit so verse 10 um yeah so Luke 910 says on the return to the apostle the apostles told Jesus all they had done then taking them along he slept away into a city called besiega okay so they're in besiega which was a fishing village and then later um let's see what verses it uh it says the uh oh yeah verse 12 it just says we're in a deserted place um that

2:54:57just doesn't make sense to me so if I were to say oh good oh yeah let me put this I'll just put this up here and then we'll take a look at it yeah so Luke like for instance let's say I were to say oh uh I tell you oh I'm in the vagus strip and then uh 10 minutes later I say oh I need to go because there's nowhere to eat around here that doesn't make sense there's plenty to eat in the vagus strip let me just put it on the screen we'll just go through it so Luke 910 you said so on their return the apostles told them all they done and he took them and withdrew apart to a town called besiega so then say they were in the town it says they're apart from it so they're like buy it when the crowds learned they followed him and welcomed him they spoke to him about the kingdom of and cure those who was healing another day began to wear away and the 12 came and said them send the cred away to go into the surrounding villages like besiega and the countryside to find lodging and get provisions for wearing a desolate place so they're obviously close enough that people could go to the villages but it doesn't say they're in besiega that says they're like a part

2:55:58from besiega it was a part to a town called the yeah this might just be some semantics okay so your translation is they were maybe like a mile or two away and then or whatever it looks like it yeah it looks like they were just like I mean I don't think Luke is saying that I can look at the Greek here but I don't think he's saying they were in the town okay I see I see I see okay so that would be a different translation okay yeah that's that's fine then and then I may have missed it in some of your response videos or your videos on the gospels but what do you how do you address the charge that like Luke and Matthew basically just I mean they use Mark as a source would you agree with that of course okay because like a lot of things are copied word for word so if they like genuinely wrote it or like what would it be or they just kind of writing from their own memory but then also just writing from Mark's gospel well I mean you got to think of it like this so Matthew was not in the inner inner circle that was only James John and Peter those were the three closest Peter was their present for things that Matthew wasn't like a transfiguration praying to get somebody so he's

2:57:02a much closer to Cyples now he gets a gospel in the mail so to speak of Peter Mark the guy that translated for Peter wrote down everything Peter was preaching of course he's gonna use that that's coming from directly from Peter so it makes sense he would just use that in Bill on it okay I see okay I see all right yeah that makes sense um yeah I mean I don't have too much day I guess the other thing like kind of the main thing holding me back it would have been the eternal hell but we we got nice annihilationism and universalism so we can I can get past that the other thing is that I think I understand like what you're saying like the evidence is for the resurrection or for like these miracle claims like for Christianity um my problem is that uh one thing that's just like yeah this is probably one of the few things that's getting me to the finish line is that there are just like a lot of other religions in the world and then I don't I feel like I need to investigate them all in order to just like compare the truth claims I think I've investigated Mormonism and Islam enough

2:58:07that I can reject those but like like Hinduism Buddhism behind etc like um like I mean I can't reject those yet because I just don't know not doing no enough about them well if Jesus rose from the dead that would sort of nullify them all because then at that point he you know if the gospel's a reliable account of what happened in Jesus rose from the dead I think that's just the wind for Christianity right there that's just sort of like hey we got it uh well not necessarily I think that if you can um establish that those things happen so like let's say that you're correct that we have evidence those things happen that with that establishes is there's a supernatural like entity of some sort but then um one one way that I've seen that like for instance uh Christian Catholic apologists dismiss Mormonism as they say oh it was like Moroni was Neville spirit for instance so like uh you could so like a Hindu or Buddhist could say oh I accept what you say like the physical evidence but maybe it's just a mischievous spirit in Buddhism

2:59:08or something he was doing that so then like I need to look at Buddhism's truth claims it seems in order to say okay is there like sufficiently good evidence or can I reject it well I think we could do if uh follow the evidence where it leads approach like we do this in science like so scientists will say we have the best theory right now is like the standard model if we come across in the future as we're looking in the universe better evidence for a different model then we go with that model I think we can apply that same principle here uh we take all the evidence and the evidence shows Christianity is true so we become a Christian and if we go along that route and then along the way we find oh my goodness the Hindus have a good point here we update our accordingly I don't see I that's how I kind of try to operate that's why like I've changed my beliefs over the years like to like an annihilationism or idealism oh there's a good evidence here I can be those things like when I started my channel I wasn't an idealist for example okay I see so um yeah so do you think a good approach could be just to wait because I think they're I think I've seen enough evidence like uh oh yeah I looked at doc

3:00:12Joshua Rasmussen too I need to finish the book but um yeah so I've looked at like all that like I mean I watched Josh mid um I respect him a lot um like back when he was an agnostic and now as a Christian I think he's wrong in a couple things but that's whatever it's no discussion and like I watched your stuff I watched Trent Horn the blah blah blah um so yeah I think uh I'm convinced there's probably something but uh yeah I mean yeah yeah um I think I think that last point was just the last one so yeah no I mean pray about it man there's nothing this reason that thinks you have to just like look here's the thing at the end of the day try this live as a Christian for 30 days pray good church do it yeah do it man I worship the living God you're gonna see changes in your life okay so yeah yeah I mean I'm sure I'll get a land

3:01:12somewhere as I investigate more and then I know you said the uh like those who see will find an answer so um yeah in theory like if I'm just trying to be I try to be intellectually honest then I should like then in theory I should land on the Christian God yeah I mean like we begin at the end of the day I can't save you I only point to the light it's the Holy Spirit that works in you so because I believe I worship the living God I firmly place my faith in him that he's going to show up and I'm gonna pray that he does man like like absolutely I'm gonna be like listen I'm gonna I'm gonna do like like you know like when what one point when Philip Langston and Martin Luther were working together Philip Millenthin was like got really sick and he was wrote to Martin Luther and he's like I think I'm gonna die soon and Martin Luther like wrote down everything that he thought got it promised him and he shook his fists in the air until Philip Millenthin healed like I firmly believe in prayer I believe it worked and everyone in the live chat is gonna start praying for you now because I told them to uh because like we believe God will show up so here's

3:02:14my challenge man do the challenge live as a Christian for 30 days read the Bible uh do follow those trends do what they're doing go go to church every week find a good place to get in a Bible study and just see what happens yeah yeah I think I told you my background I was a group in like conservative Christian households like a Protestant evangelical and then like I considered myself a liberal Christian through throughout university years and then a year or two after I kind of left I was trying to be intellectually honest but now I'm like I'm trying to be intellectually honest still and I think I'm right becoming back to it so like I've done that like I read the Bible like I've yeah I've gone to church and I think that there were things that were not like some things were not right previously but yeah I mean I yeah maybe I could find a better path so to speak in it yeah absolutely yeah check out like a Catholic church a Lutheran church an orthodox church find a good place there's a lot of good churches out there in different different areas like you don't just have to go to like the

3:03:17tradition that you grew up and I've been a lot of people that have moved around yeah I would not return to the tradition I grew up and I don't think I don't think I could be a Catholic either sorry sorry Catholic yeah probably be some Protestant because I mean I don't think Catholics are a universe list so try uh try Lutheran church go to like a LCMS stay away from the rainbow ones you know LC LCMS not a lot of my a lot of my family they consider themselves very like progressive Christians so they um they they are part of the churches all right yes stay away from those ones we don't want to do those ones yeah so yeah yeah check it out before I go uh yeah thanks so much like your videos are great like they really answered a lot of my objections and thank you like even my family who goes you know the rainbow churches like I send up them your videos and they're like oh yeah this is really cool so yeah I think you do great work and I think that you your channel's like a big reason why I'm returning awesome that's awesome to hear man I'm really happy to hear that we'll be praying for you but yeah come back if I complete it then I'll come back on and tell

3:04:18you good that like I that's gonna happen all right well um yeah see you later all right thanks man what's your name by the way my name is Isaac with two eyes okay everyone's of new you good got it all right everyone pray for Isaac uh keep him in your prayers god we we come before him we pray for Isaac right now we pray that you show up in his life and you show him your real and you bring him into the kingdom that's what we want more than anything the name of the father suddenly spirit on man there we go all right I'm gonna bring up one more Brenda are you there Brenda ah yes I'm here how are you uh good are you doing I'm doing great I'm just chatting away back here and stuff and I'm responding to your prompt I'm sorry I had trouble I'm sorry I trouble on on tiktok they are very touchy it's a retarded api as I agree so why are you not a Christian oh there's no I haven't found any good reasons to be

3:05:19a Christian I don't think there's any good reasons I don't see what about it be a Muslim either or or any other religion right do you believe in God exists no I'm an atheist okay well it so let's go through evidence for God's existence uh where did the universe come from I don't know okay well I would say it came from a sentient source aka a creator is the best explanation really it doesn't seem like it to me why not right doesn't seem like a good reason good reason is not just something that you say pull out of your hindquarters right a good reason would have you know reasons and so I don't think there's any good reason I don't think there's any good reason to think that the universe came from a god that started begging the question isn't it no it's not because of the evidence we have so we have the universe's contingent all contingent things must be dependent on other things and eventually you have to get back to the first cause

3:06:20the beat the source of all things which would be necessary but that thing cannot be acted upon by itself because that would mean it's contingent so then we need to go that we have to argue that thing started itself or cause other things on its own which would make it most likely sentient well the first thing is necessary then everything that follows from it is also necessary is that's just what it means to be necessary as what it means to be necessary how can you have a contingent thing from something that's necessary because you can have a necessary source that does contingent things being necessary does not imply everything you do is necessary for example you could have a god in a hypothetical world that has contingent thoughts that's there's nothing wrong with that can a necessary thing do a rather than b of course no it can't because that's not what necessary means necessary means necessary defines ontology not its actions we're not saying all the actions are necessary but the ontology is

3:07:22uh-huh well that if the ontology is necessary then the ontology of the universe is necessary not contingent it's actions you'd say you I can make the same distinction right you made a distinction between actions and being right the being of the world could be contingent but its existence could be necessary it is necessarily the case that if something is necessarily the case right then things come from that they are necessary that's what it means to be ontologically necessary that does not that did not make any sense at all well I understand that your justification didn't make sense yes you're correct did yes the contingency argument works because if there's we've contingent things like you and me and the universe it has to come from something eventually that is necessary now the ontology of that thing is necessary but that doesn't think mean the sentient source everything it does has to be necessary that doesn't fall so can god do a rather than b yes so he's contingent

3:08:26not necessary that doesn't follow because you're talking about actions and conflating them with an ontology oh so god can choose between actions and correct yes right I can choose between actions is that is that because I'm contingent no that's because you can not what your ontology does not determine of all your actions are necessary okay my ontology is contingent because I could have been somebody out some other person than myself right so my ontology is contingent right I could have been born with a different genetic makeup I could have been born a different person right no I could be a different person so I can't be contingent you're you're really don't understand what these terms are you're you're keep talking about them in different ways you are necessarily you

3:09:28like the the the cold makeup if you were born for example a man you would not be Brenda that would be a different person oh I was born male I am transgender so I chose to be transgender or I decided to fulfill decided to fulfill my my future possibilities as being transgender because that's how I was born right so the fact that I was born X doesn't mean that I can't choose some other mode of being I can choose modes of being right I could choose to be gay couldn't I you can change your attraction because I will you're agreeing you can change your attraction do you think people can't change their attraction people can't choose to be gay can't choose to be straight are you saying that genetically that is something that is part of who they are yeah I actually agree attraction is a lot more in in depth than to their who the person is right I think people's people's sexual

3:10:32limitations are determined by their life experiences at least in part I think it's part genetics part yeah that's fine but I don't think you just wait here's the point I don't think you just I agree with that I don't think you just wake up and I'm now attracted to this because I want to be yeah but of course I think experiences go into that of course genetics go into that as a Christian I believe that some people some men have been more attracted to men and they're never going to be able to change that yeah it's a it's a way of small minority but that's also just be celibate as a church is called well I think that I think that we've gone off on a bad on a bad bracket here because we're talking about ontology and being and you were saying that any person any human no matter whether they're gay straight trans or whatever necessarily are that person in their being right no here's what I'm trying to say I think there's some confusion here I'm saying that part you are a soul and a soul is a collection of your thoughts emotions your dreams your disposition I don't believe in souls I

3:11:34don't believe in souls I'm an atheist I'm you do in an Aristotelian sense and I'm defining it you just don't like the word so soul and I'm not a soul there's I'm not an essence there's no essence I'm not in the essential there Aristotelian sense of soul does not an essence yeah well he was wrong about a lot he was wrong about gravity too so he got a lot of things wrong all right have a good day I'm gonna have this conversation if you can't even just agree on a term I'm done like you guys oh my god if you don't like the term just say you want to use a different term and I'm like I don't have an assault it's because I don't believe in essences that's not what we mean by soul a soul is a collection of who you are it's your personality extended oh that was annoying I remember Brenda last time he came book recommendations dressing whether John wrote John Matthew wrote Matthew yeah check out um check out my series on the gospel reliability I think I have the best case uh check out my whole series and then read the books I used in that that series

3:12:42so go to the channel go to playlist go to gospel reliability should be 15 videos in there and just go through those I drew in a lot of different books you can use eternal punishment for finite number of sins why uh so the the argument would be is that it's not so much that that's they're they're being punished it's that they just go on for existence because God's not going to end life and they continue to suffer in their own sins that they have created so that they're actually being punished by God externally it's they're they have built a prison of their own making all right I address this is the same super check yeah I mean check out the series another reliability of the gospels I think that'll help you a lot peace be with you brother what do you think about the last guy filling in title to seeing God to prove he exists I feel like it's an entitlement man like study the data don't be like if God doesn't show up I'm not going to believe that's literally putting yourself in hell you're putting yourself as the center of the universe and

3:13:43now the creator has to come to your backing call like people don't realize what this does to you like are you truly a truce seeker or are you going to sit in the corner and demand truth come to you pick your put pick your position whose side are you on the side of truth or the side of yourself I almost said pick your poison I don't know why I meant pick your position ask anyone whose life has been transformed by Yeshua Christianity is unique it's transformative power because God our God is the true God yeah that's all we can do at the end of the day we got to point people in the right direction we cannot force them we just pray to the Holy Spirit shows up and works in their life and we believe he will youtubers like DZ argue that Jesus didn't fulfill any Messianic prophecies and call typology about hermeneutic can you demonstrate Messianic prophecies that the prophecies in their original context that Jesus fulfilled yeah Zechariah 9.9 Jeremiah 23.6

3:14:47and even if it is a typology so what the Old Testament says of a pattern and then Jesus lives out that pattern to become true Israel why would that be about hermeneutic that's very much in the cultural flow of the first century so of course God's going to show up and act in a way that's going to miss people at that time who defines what is essential we decide what councils choose someone can claim to be Christian while rejecting Nicaea well that's a good point who defines what essential would be the apostles and the church fathers we go with them and then these councils come along who confirm those teachings confirm what the faith has always been have you heard of Brit and wits book Christ before Jesus if you have what do you make of it it's I've seen as looked at it it's complete nonsense they use a bad mathematical model doesn't even make sense sending encouragement in love thank you so much I submit my gizya to the behavior of the Islamic dilemma may his moon never be split by the please everyone pray that I would never want that to happen much Allah let's pray

3:15:56that never happens I'm not a Christian because Christianity is the fourth is the fourth beast of Daniel's vision in the best empire opposed as God and it's from the devil okay okay so Christian is the fourth beast okay the fourth beast ended slavery created human rights gave value to children educated the world and was crucial for the developing science that's that's your argument this is is it the Roman Empire after the Roman Empire like where are you fitting this these beasts this is even the worst Muslim apologies would not say something so stupid man but you won't come in and argue this with me we both know why but you'll pay your gizya so we appreciate that hi IP would love you responded to claim that Ezekiel 167 isn't talking about adulthood but on set of puberty because when the verse says your hair I'd grown it means pubic hair let's go to the verse what do we do we go to the verse is Ezekiel 16 I'm gonna blow my nose getting over some sort of cold

3:17:04right now okay so it doesn't just say that says I made you flourish like a plant of the field and you grew up so you grew up you became tall and arrived at full adornment your breasts were formed your hair had grown so full adornment fully form breasts and hair had grown that so yes it is about basically completing puberty I've been talking to Joe but witness is recently they can't seem to unengage with me when I ask how Jesus could be made through himself yep that's a good argument they try to argue Jesus was a created being and that is silly and his heresy God bless IP sending love from New Zealand thank you so much Chase we appreciate that do you believe non-agariant Protestants who reject the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church are damned no I believe they're saved because they've been baptized in baptism saves they're baptized in a trititarian formula all right the

3:18:09scriptures promised that that means they're saved feel like I'm experiencing deja vu on the Judas discussion yeah it's and every time we bring it up they just they do that thing where they're like it says this it doesn't say that but it says this no it doesn't say that either but you're adding to the text no no no you're forcing contradictions by adding the text I'm saying look what the text says and then look it can actually piece together nicely does anyone else feel like IP had this conversation before I have yeah what's your view on Graham op is rebuttal against theological and ontological argument would you ever debate them yes of course I love love to thank you Ellie for the very generous $200 super chat much appreciated as so generous of you thank you so much delivery of some laundered money deposit and came in account oh yeah a came in account yeah I would I wish I'm pretty sure I could never afford something like that Jesus claimed to be God died and rose from the dead Christianity blows every religion out of the water it's the objective

3:19:11truth yes absolutely right thank you pastor Tony for gifting 10 inspiring philosophy memberships hey IP more like you P non playing do you have any videos or could you make videos on how the Bible treats women keep saying the Bible treats women bad yeah I need to do a video on that yeah I have done it specifically but yeah it's it's absurd nonsense especially we get to the new testament could you perhaps do a neutral assessment about the Shroud of Turner cover some near death experience cases I did a video I did a series like couple like five years ago called irreducible mind and in that series I think part five was on near death experiences type flags so go type of irreducible mind watch the series in part five covers near death experiences as for the Shroud I'm really not interested in covering that book recommendations for metaphysics uh Peter and wagon has a great book on metaphysics IP and chat can you pray for me I've been

3:20:13experiencing some extreme doubt this last week I want Jesus Jesus and for my faith to be strong okay we'll be praying for you absolutely keep keep keep him in your prayer to me and get out of the back rooms man what are you doing in there it's not safe how long have you studied to get your degree well to get my degree why I did a two year degree program thank you for your efforts Mike chat hit like yeah everyone hit like why haven't you hit like yet how dare you thank you so much for gifting another ten inspiring philosophy memberships and Christianity is the fourth beast is about as bad as the weirdo Christian channel saying the Bible is the mark of the beast there's a god I love social media it's insane what you get it's all all insane yeah so so the ill you didn't hear it is Peter van and wagon Peter van and wagon yeah all right I went through all the superchets we've been made we've been streaming for three almost three hours and 20 minutes dang okay well I'll be live again next week I'm gonna I'm done three three hours uh and I need a break

3:21:20on my brain it's just needs these are needs are rests so I'll be live next week at the same time so come back forever you all like 40 of you in the queue uh a lot uh but yeah sorry I can't get to everybody but I will be live again next week just come back three p.m. Eastern and we will start this thing again baby all right I'll see you guys later you made it to the end of this video which means this message matters to you if you want to see more content like this reaching people for christ you can help make it happen your support makes these videos possible click the link below and donate today and if you want to go even deeper consider joining our patreon community you'll get early access to videos behind the scenes content and a place to connect with others passionate about this mission LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business we cannot stop your new clients from emailing you at 3 a.m. we can help you sell market and hire in one place we

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