Killer Who Murdered Three in Revenge for His Sister’s Death

0:00I'm caught up in the game. My attention is on every play and every whistle. But what I'm missing is a signal coming from my kidneys. That signal isn't like a ref's whistle. It's more of a silent SOS, which could be warning me of an increased risk for events like heart attack or stroke. And a way I can catch that signal? A simple urine test called UACR. If you have type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure, talk to your doctor about the UACR test. Detect the SOS. Visit DetectTheSOS.com to learn more. Welcome to your top true crime hobby for the variety and episodes you're looking for. Enjoy! Let me sit next to you and I'll tell you what we're looking at here. This is 111 is over here. Okay. And this is the other... This is that access road. Yeah, you can cruise the road. Yeah. Well, we're already crossed it. See, one of them is over here, so we're already crossed it, so check this out. There's the liquor store right there with the guy.

1:02This thing might bring glasses. Can you see it though? Yes. Okay. I don't see a big man. That's a big man right there. Okay. You see it, okay? You want to bring it closer? That's okay. Okay. So now, as we're going down this way, we're on the access road that you drove. Are you going south? Are you going south? And we're going south. And the railroad tracks are right here. Yes. And we kind of filmed for like a mile or two. And there's some buildings, some houses on each side. There's one house on the right-hand side. We saw palm trees. I think we were just testing to make sure it worked. There's people waving to us as we were driving by. A lot of farm workers and stuff. It's a pretty good video, huh?

2:02Yes. Bring it back some memories? Yes. I think there used to be a house on this thing. There's a new curb. Do you remember that curb? See, I passed through a good thing. That water tank? Was that there? No. I don't remember what you think. I think there's a house on the other side. Kind of hard to see. Did that house look familiar at all? It was a smaller house.

3:03I don't know what that was. We put that on the house for a second. Okay. That house is this. Same house, just a different side. Looks like they did some renovations, some add-ons here. Looks like it was really small at one time. Now you can get to have that fence in there. Did not. You just have the fence? Yes. That's the back side of it.

4:10Just a couple more pictures. These are probably the best ones of that particular house. Does any of that look familiar? Or, I mean, familiar that you just remember? That particular house? Or familiar that this is where the... No, no. It took them more over there. But I don't see that near the house. So it's not this house? No. It keeps going. It is on that side of the road, though? Yes. The road road transformed into... Do you think we've gone too far down the road now? I think you did too far. Let it go. Let it go. When's the last time you've been down there? I passed one time on the main. Do you know what's good to mix and kill him? It's changed a lot, huh?

5:10Let's see. You're getting speedier. Are you going faster? Well, yeah. It's a hard one. It's on the bushes. Let's make my eyes hurt. Looking at it. I think it's changed a lot. I think it's changed a lot.

6:18That's about five miles per hour. No. That's only about a mile or two. Yes. You're making something up now. What's that? I can't see the video. I have to entertain myself over here. Is that all the way down the end already? No. No. But five more minutes. That's about five minutes at the instruction. Do you find out that date I made that statement on that? Yes. Have I found the date?

7:18Yes. Yes. We have all the reports from the original case. Because I went over there. Can I know the date that I went to the police station? Yes. Can I know where these guys are buried? Well, I'm going to find it anyway. I'm going to find them. I don't care if I have to pay my sister to go and get the report from me. Yeah. Well, they're not going to release any reports right now, because it's an open homicide case. You're talking about the murder of your sister, correct? Yes. Yeah. There's a hold on all the reports, and there has been since 1978 because of the... We don't release reports on an active case, because then somebody who might have did it could get a copy of the report and find out some stuff about what we were looking at. So that's one way, but check this out. Let me show you... Let me show you... We're going to do another video, and it's just... It's the same street. It's just going the other way now. So we turned around,

8:18and now we're starting way down south and working our way up. So we could get the other side of the road. No, the other side of the road. You want to watch this or no? No. Okay. Lots of orange grows on the other side. Let this up here real quick. This is Martinez. I know we've already moved my right year rights, but I'm going to read them again just to be careful so that way we're not in a situation where anybody could be upset that we're talking, okay? You have the right to main silence. You understand that? Yes. Anything you say can be used against you in the court of law. Do you understand that? You have the right to talk to him more. Have him present with you while you're being questioned. You understand that? Yes. You're not a court of how law will be appointed representative. You'll be questioned if you wish to. You understand that? Yes. Okay. You understand each of the rights I've explained to you? Yes. Absolutely. Here's the thing.

9:21Is this a matter of you're going to tell us where they're at just not right now? Is that what this is a matter of? Maybe somewhere down the road, somewhere into the future? Probably. Okay. So is there no chance right now that we'll be able to... Because have you thought about... Let me put this to you this way. Have you thought about the possibility that the three guys that you killed in retaliation for your sister's murder? Have you ever thought of the possibility that it wasn't them? I'm sure they weren't them. I'm sure when they weren't them. Because when I was here last, and we talked, you never really told me anything that would convince me that it was them. All my respect... Okay. I don't want to disrespect you. Right. No, no, no. And I hope I'm not disrespecting you either. I'm not trying to. I don't care. They don't find them. Okay. They've done something to my family. And they paint a punishment.

10:21Okay. And I think you would do the same thing if you were in my shoes and something happens to your family. Yeah. I think you're right. And I think I might. Because I am that kind of person. But my question, I guess, is that if somebody had told me in hindsight, like in reflection 20 or 30 years later, if somebody had told me, is there a possibility, have you ever thought about the fact that it might not have been them? I could self-reflect and go, well, I thought I had these reasons to believe it was, and they were good reasons at the time. But now that I think about it, and the only reason why I'm saying this is that I would hate to just take the investigation in your sister's homicide and just put it on a shelf never to be looked at again. Because somebody, I don't worry about it. The guys, I did my own kind of like searching around. I did my own little investigation. I figured out that they were responsible. I killed them. Cases closed. Don't worry about it. You know what I mean? That's a tough pill for me to swallow to just take the case and just put it back on the shelf

11:22where it's been for 25 years. Because it was looked at for the first like five or six or seven eight years. But to be honest with you, nobody's done anything in 20 years. I know. And I think that's kind of sad. But Riverside County is a really big county not to make excuses. We have a thousand, you know, unsolved cases that we're trying to work our way through right now and try and find resolution for as many as we can. And, you know, I have this case and to of your sister's death and just to never have resolution, you know, because I can't put in a report why it is that you believe that it was three, I can't make a connection. You know, and if I could make that connection, I could close her case. And not only that, I could also potentially close a case of three other people that were killed and in the poker, in the poker, the House of the Booker Game was on, of three that we may or may not know of. And that's why I'm trying to reach out to you and that's our purpose of coming here

12:24and speaking to you is to try and bridge that gap. And, you know, to just take your sister's case now and this is the case folder and just put it back on a shelf because nobody will look at it again, you know, for a really long time. If I just say, you know what I talked to Mr. Martinez who was very nice, he wrote us a letter, he talked us about a bunch of cool things. You know, he's just at this point not prepared to speak to us. It's literally going to go until, you know, a point where that comes. You know, if we decide that there's not much more we can do. If you could give me more information about these guys and your involvement in their homicide, maybe I could uncover something in all of this that you didn't know that would strengthen the fact that they did kill your sister. Maybe I could find some people that would, that are outside of custody that would say yes. These three guys that died, they told me that they killed this girl back in 1978.

13:25And maybe I could be able to close that case. I don't know, does that make sense to you at all? Yeah, I know what you're trying to say. Is it, but I guess I go back to my original question, are you just not going to share any information with us that's going to help us? Not today. No, no, no. When do you, when do you think that'll be? Anytime. I got a letter straight from now on. My, my, my public defender, she even got mad. She told me that to be talking to nobody. Okay. Yeah. But honestly, my guess, what do you have to lose? What is, how would this change anything? I mean, you know, you've got cases. I have a paperware. A lot of paper. Not paperware, you have to worry about. You've got Alabama. You've got Florida. You've already talked about other states that you're going to be going to. No. This is, it's not like you're a free man right now. You know, you kind of accepted how things are right now

14:25and how they're probably going to stay for the rest of your life. I don't, I'm trying to understand why is it that this is, it's like pulling teeth when this essentially is, you say you've killed those men until we know who those men are, those men are the only lead we have for your sister's case. So you can't ask us to try and do something on your sister's case, but not give us information so that we can do what we can possibly do to figure out who those men were. Whether you ever get charged with their death or not, it's a pebble on a pile. You know, I'm saying, you've done plenty of things and you've admitted to and you've come to terms with and you've talked about it. So if you want to talk with us, we'd love to hear it. But if you, again, if you can't help us with this, it's directly telling us you're not going to help us with your sister's case. So we just want to make sure you're aware of that. So if you send us a letter in a month and say, I've got you, doesn't want to talk to you. If this is some kind of a game, I'm not going to let you guys keep going. No, no, no, no, no. But we, we are here to talk with you. But our sergeant, he's just,

15:25he's our sergeant, you know. So if we say, yeah, we could talk to him, Mr. Martinez, we'll give us some information. Well, you've gone there and he didn't. So let's not, we've got other cases to worry about. So we have to convince our sergeant that this is something worth pursuing. We'd like to pursue it. But that key piece of evidence is up here with you. Unless you want to share some of that, you're tying our hands and we're not going to get anywhere with, with, with your sister. We just need a little more because our bosses aren't going to let us come back up here again. And even if you write to us in a month or two or six months in a year and you say, hey, now I'm ready, I'm not so sure that they'll bite on that either. Because my bosses think it's just a ploy to, to drag things out or maybe to get you a trip down there, you know, get you out of the custody situation for a little bit. If I, if I go back with, with nothing more than what I had when I had when I came here today, it's, I can tell you that it's, it's probably not going to go much further. And, uh,

16:25and I know you reached out for a reason. I, I know that you wrote that letter for a reason. And I know you're saying it's because you wanted the date of your, of your, of your sister. Yeah, that's one of the date when I was, but you also, in that letter, did not need to put that you killed three people. You could have just kept that. You know, in order for you to believe that I, that really was, but we still don't know if we can even believe that. We want to believe that because I think you're, you seem to know a lot about the area. You seem to have a reason to do it. But right now, anybody could tell us, hey, I just killed three people. You don't, you have to prove it to us. You, you have to prove it, which sounds ridiculous. But, you've got to prove it. Or we say, no, believe it or not, people confess, stuff like that, who false confessions, we call them. They say they've done things, and they haven't done them. So, although you may have, according to what you've written, a very interesting life, and you've been a very busy guy, and you've done some, some wild things, I don't know, for sure,

17:25that this is, it's even true. You've got to help us here. I know the thing. I was going to ask you, do you remember, that year, the cards you found in Bombay Beach? I don't remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure it's in my, in my, in my file set. It was kind of a red card. You're talking about the one that was, the one that was found after the fact? Yes. Or, they found the card first. Right. Okay. And they found her, buddy. I'm not 100% sure, but you are talking about something that sounds familiar, yes. Is that something that's important to you, too? Do you want to know the year of the card? Yes. Because, they try to make a movie out of my sisters there. And the guy who wants to buy a card, you know, buy the cards and the year card knowledge. For the movie. I guess. They tried to make a movie before or they want to actively know. And they want to, you know. Okay.

18:25Is this the same person you were communicating with with your manuscripts? Ah, see. Yes. Okay. I know what's the red, kind of, red cards, 70 something. But, we don't remember the year. So, what about if you, if you talk with this, this, this person of yours that you are communicating with? And, don't you think that they would find it pretty interesting to be on the front end of a, of like an expose, if you will, or a 2020, or a nightline situation where they are helping, you know, tagging along while you, you know, lead law enforcement to, you know, the three people that are, that were responsible for your sister's death. Don't you think that would be something they'd really be interested in in terms of that movie? I would think, right? I know. You ain't going to convince me. You know what I mean, no? I guess. Yeah. No, no, yeah. What is it? What's the trigger? What is in your mind

19:25that you want to wait for? I mean, just be honest with me. Is it you want to wait for your conviction here and then that would be a situation where now hey, you're done here and ready to move on to another county system. Oh, yes. Maybe not go back to Alabama or not. Oh, no. They're going to take me to some vicious throw there. They keep sending mail over there. I mean, you check on the computer. You're only facing life in Alabama, right? You're not facing it wasn't a death penalty case. No, not over there. Okay. I think the people were there. It's going to be sad or something happens to you before we ever had that conversation. How old are you, Mr. Martinez? 52 years old. 52. You say you're, you said your dad's deceased? Yes. How old was your dad when he passed away? Oh, I remember. He was right. He was an old, old, old. He was an old. Yeah, he was. I don't remember. He said, yeah. This is the Alabama case, you know. They don't know. This is the whole case. Yeah.

20:25The whole paperwork teaching me for more than. Okay. And why? I don't know. They didn't give me the debt pen. Oh, okay. This is describing the case with the guy that insulted your daughter. Yes. Was he your daughter's? I'm just curious. Was he your daughter's boyfriend or no? Was a friend of your daughter? He was a friend of my. My daughter. Okay. Because my daughter's living with her. With his husband right now. Why did you okay? This was the first time you were arrested for murder, right? This this case. Yes. Did they did they have you on anything other than you just admitting to it? This is what I Into 13 January to 13

21:27I flew to Alabama for vacation, right, okay? I was over there visiting my daughter and my granddaughter. I'm okay. I took one month's out of the year for the country when I was free and At the friend of my daughter Tomie there's some guy indicated and they They want you to collect money because I tell him about you that you collect money from people Yeah, okay, and I turn tomorrow to meet you. So I give me Okay, the next day came and I he introduced me to us a reason Okay I went with us a reason to to Milton But I was talking all kinds of chat and now I wanted to knew more about my daughter's friend because She was in with her husband and one is

22:30The one effect, okay, and I want to know more about how you remember my daughter's friend You know what I told me nice things about him and then he said bad bad thing about my daughter Remember you told me that she was like a snitch because her husband was a lieutenant and he did it. He did it twice. Yes Oh, man, I do kill him that thing That day about a car and I Came to California. I dropped the car and I went back and I went back and I parked into the risk again This time was high me with me my daughter's friend was with me and he said something bad and He went at a dinner. He got off and I told him well, they are rest They're rich, I mean Okay Why I was over there. He didn't say nothing was in the art, but as soon as he knew that I came to California

23:34It's a mission that I don't need a Right, there's a statement right there. Oh, that thing is saying and then your your daughter told you to come back You're a Mexico and they told me to come back. Okay. I came back because they went to rupture they were Oh Questioning my friend my granddaughter. Yeah So you come back and they interviewed you why didn't why didn't I just deny it? But why not just deny that you did it when when they asked you about the crime? Why'd you contest Because they they feel had high me in there. I mean high me was telling him that I'd done it. You're not done it You a Because you were accused of being involved in murders before in California They brought you in and they hooked up to a light detector and they told you you were a liar and tell us the truth and that time You didn't confess. I'm just curious how come this oh No, I knew it was gonna get away

24:34But in Alabama you didn't think you'd get away. No, no because there was a witness behind me For example you You didn't need nothing that I wasn't gonna kill Jose Reese, but You're gonna you're gonna get out of jail. You're gonna say martina done it martina done it. Yeah, I saw him. He tried them on the head They're gonna When I went back there And they got me crossing the border Because I told my daughter was running a real grandma to talk to the Investigators over there. Let's see what the fuck they want but When I got over there and I said moon I saw my daughter crying and I told him I'm still in here. I guess he's still job So I you know why I did so they let him go as soon as I told him I don't

25:36They let you go the same day Okay, that was just curious so Regarding the the three guys that that you killed in the in the poker game in mecca Back in was in 1978. I think we were talking about Do you want to talk to me about I know you don't at this point want to tell me where they're at until you're prepared to But do you want to are you willing to talk to me a little more about how the murders happened? Particularly the day of how they were shot how you heard them Which I'm also having a time with because it told me that you weren't from the area So you weren't worried about getting caught how you had told me before how you did your jobs You know you could just walk into a bar and kill somebody because nobody's ever seen you but saying you but You know fucking to this poker game. That's nothing you kill them. Why not just leave there? Why go through the trouble of burying them because nobody knows you're there and you could just got on

26:40111 there's not a cop for hours. You probably want to see it until Palm Springs and You know what I mean When you're working When you when you go alone with your cranes you can do the way the way you want to do it right thing Nobody knows but when you got somebody else with you And he's done it the first time he saw nervous and all that shit Miss Barry. I think like that You

27:42This man This man it wasn't killing that part, okay You said killing wasn't that killing him wasn't that hard. No, it wasn't in this area here. Oh, it wasn't in there. Okay. Yeah Okay, I was two other guys Who's this This is Roll Gonzalez This guy Was money We picked him in early mark We picked an early mark and he said something bad about some some super sheriff took my gun and I shot him inside the car Then we my friends stop and he tried to run away from me and the middle to trees

28:48You just No houses or nothing around Let me tell you what happened I shot him I cut up to him I stabbed him Well, I didn't shot him no more because my fucking gun Okay, we loaded one of the trunk of the car And we took him from point B to point A Because the most stupid that word nervous and I think what is the fucking purpose we're driving 30 miles maybe for dead body exactly okay You get stopped exactly get out of the run but like I tell you I Wants to know don't right if I were to be at once If I were to be alone I was leaving there, okay?

29:48All the people that I killed around risk go they were two miles from my house To my this way to my this way to my just I cut him out a fucking two miles away from my house and I took him from Risk girl by the way to put us down 35 miles That was the mother's stupid food choice. I dragged them on it from the trunk And I put in a week during my business side of the freeway So when you're working alone you do it whatever you want So that day though you were walking with your cousin With her mother-gain. Yes, you said cousin. I'm just Whatever whatever his name was So was it your decision or his decision to pull him out? Barium his decision. He's decision. Yes. How did you barium? With your hands? No That job was in there

30:49Some little house Make all whatever Did you bury them all in the same hole? Yes, it took us all which makes for the house Each individual everybody got their own hole. They're all with the same hole. No, they're all in the same fucking hole One on top of each other. Yes, they weren't close. I don't know. Do you guys take their clothes off or they weren't close? No, I just mean to get rid of blood evidence reading so they were still wearing their clothes Yes, I think that they knocked the house down Okay, I think they knocked the house down Because it was close to the front house to the first house Yes, was it before or the fur when you're coming down the curb before or after after the curve after the curve Yes, because when you cross the road cracks there's a house The house, but before this needs to have the prints don't say So before the water tank or after the water tank when you're going down the road thing after the water tank that big open field Yes That's

31:49Showed you definitely not that house I think it's been added on you know, I'm saying add-ons over the years So I think maybe 30 years ago was much smaller Looks-wise just from the does it all look like the house? No, the distance Yes Do you remember a guy named Fred Mariano? Mariano I know a lot of people from Jamaica Do you remember that name? It would cost me something on my mind Macario I don't know Macario. Yes. Oh, Mariano. Mariano I don't know Do you remember somebody who was writing your sister in jail? I remember his name Okay, I should have brought you my letter so you can see. Well your sister was a Younger girl. Yes, do you remember an older man and I don't mean old as an elder. I mean older than her

32:54So somebody about your age now back then Do you remember her being involved with anybody like that? I? I don't mean involved romantically. I mean involved like it sounds like she was just He might have had some interest, but it sounds like she was just hanging around Okay, maybe getting you know help assistance. I Used to live in Mexico My sister was beautiful. I mean white. She looked like a white girl Kind of wild I got two sisters. She's my half sister. Okay. First of all, she's my half sister. Cecilia's my half sister Her father is my father, but we grew up together. I think When we used to live in Maccali

33:54She used to date a disman from Mecha He was old And I went and told my dad about it. Okay. I heard that uh, I told my dad that I think the girls want to go to a show because there's some who's waiting for them in the theater, but that was about when I was 10 years old Yeah, but I know I knew that he was she was looking at Some old man from around there make a tunnel for now. Yeah Yeah, but uh, I know I know that old man's family Which other old man? That's the one the one I'm talking about. Yes. Yes. I think the one you're talking about Yeah Was the the man that you're saying that your sister was interested in that you told your dad that she was going to the movies and there was going Is that Fred Mariana or are we talking about two different guys? I think you're talking. I think you're some magic day another guy

35:01These guys that were these three guys that you killed in the poker game. Do you remember if you shot it where you shot him at? Oh, no, I don't remember if they got did you do the shooting or did you cut him to the shooting? I did a shooting Do you remember if they got shot in the head or if they got shot in the head not in the head in the stomach or chest lots of times each one or just once I do remember Like this guy When you kill somebody Uh This motherfucker got stabbed 30 times Okay, and um by who By you see Who are we talking about just in guy Is this Ruiz? Who? No, no, no, no, this is get from her to my Only got one paper work from my night murder from here. Uh, this is from discount. Who is this?

36:04The same guy right through here. Oh, it's the same guy. Okay? My hair snake and dude didn't talk to me there. Oh, okay See what exactly Got a calendar no one that time you got stand. Oh you're telling why would you why do you want to point that out to me because you don't know when you do something like that you don't put a tuncheon away shooting at they happen from here to that wall over there okay could the door and tunch tunch tunch tunch tunch tunch somebody stay right there tunch tunch tunch tunch there run it there yeah no one tried to run was it that fast there's three of them now what's all you come in and started to try and run out of door or get up no dogs on the property dogs on the house um we didn't park the car in front of the

37:06house we went walking what was next to the house you talked about feels feels like they say we had all the time in the world to do a coming day how far from the house is where you buried him was it across the street was it 10 feet off the patio you know I'm saying how close to the house from here all the way I think to the to the to a little sidewalk that we yes why drag them out that far how come not just right outside the because of soil and where did you get the shovels I'm going to back on the house inside or

38:06outside the house in the backyard outside the house this is what I'm going to do and can't this is my plan from here I'm going to go to Florida okay when I'm afraid if I don't like Florida I'm going to ride you back until you're ready to park okay but this is the location with dink icees damn but you're putting a lot of faith in the fact that that I'm going to be interested in doing that if we if we can find these bodies and then you write us later and say I want to come talk to you about it then we're here if we don't have these bodies Mark Sardin's going to say nope we're not going to have them so this is kind of it

39:06because they we we need to speak now so why do you want to move nothing moves fast you know I'm saying okay you want me to draw a map and I'll tell you where to add or will you draw some out already and I showed you a video and pictures of pretty much the whole street are you saying the only way you think is if you were physically there probably this but you're also telling me you're not willing to do you're not ready to do that right now and it's sad to you but what I'm trying to communicate to you is that let's say you go to Florida how long do you think it's going to be till you go to Florida like six months two years I'm going to click used to here because they can move me right now they're going to go and throw me back to my show and I don't know when I'm going to be back okay what are you facing sentence wise here here yeah definitely okay well you can't plead guilty what no that's mean I can I go and say

40:18I want to take guilty to all my charges sir the death penalty case no no okay that's what I'm trying to do here right and then there's automatic appeals and it's a very long process but I get what you're saying you want to move it as up as quickly as possible so you can go to Florida but what I'm trying to tell you is that let's say that happens and you leave here and you go to Florida and then you write me and say hey I'm willing to come tell you I'm at this point in time my boss is not going to approve it because I don't have anything more than than just if I was to find bodies now and you weren't able to talk about it and I wasn't able to put a case on you about it you know and bring charges and then you went to Florida then maybe if you're willing to come back and talk yeah I mean we could probably we could probably make that happen but you know what I mean I absent that I don't think I have to come up with some real proof for them as a matter of fact they're not going to let me come back up here they're not going to have me bring you from out of state as a matter of fact coming if I was to go back and say hey he's ready to show me right now

41:22where bodies are I don't even know if they'll approve that but maybe they're going to bring me back okay other counties might bring you back this kind of going to bring me back to Larry County is going to bring you back yeah well why do you think so is there because I got I got three bodies very close to my house okay how many three more three that they haven't talked to you about yet oh yes they talked about me but they've been hassles with me I'm sorry for my name okay like I told you remember I told you when I got here they didn't want to take me to myself they want to take me over there they know about it but uh they want to know exactly what that okay and I know they're going to bring me back and not to make excuses for them because you know I can't speak for other counties yeah and the way that they treat people and in your person and you decide how you want to be treated but I mean you got to understand from from

42:23sitting on this side of the table put yourself in my shoes um or their shoes you know they they've got you know they've got a lot going on and they've got a job to do and you know things are happening now you know real life right now there was an incidence that happened this weekend you know homicides that they're working on and they want to just try and move through things and sometimes you know that you know you might feel mistreated but in reality all they're trying to do is they just they don't want to be drug along they don't want to be you know played games with they want to they want to just let's get this all out let's figure it out help us out type of thing and I think people get frustrated when that happens and that's might have been where that you felt you were mistreated but I don't think anybody everybody I've talked to you here has been really nice I don't think anybody purposely tried to mistreat you um so I just wanted to say that they seem really nice to me they've been really helpful but I know you're a cop but there is no a difference between a cop on the street who emboldened me and my partner both were one uh prior to doing investigations and I've treated people badly before I've said some things I shouldn't have said

43:26to people on the street you know I made some some quick you know judgments of people that I probably shouldn't have or said some things that were rude and discharidious that I probably shouldn't have but with maturity and with time on comes the fact that you realize that people deserve to be treated a certain way and you'll catch more honey or catch more flies with honey the vinegar right yes lieutenant from here and there was a real jerk in Alabama yes oh man he started yelling at me when I offered why did you kill him for $2,000 and I say don't come here yelling at me I didn't call you I didn't tell you to come over here you know why I don't want to talk to you no more so please get out if if anybody above the rank of a investigator or sergeant wants to talk to you that's a lieutenant or a captain that's probably gonna be flag number one that you might not get the best personality you just know that going into it yeah you probably know now but they're not the people that do our job they're administrators and the others uh they're into detective they're

44:30into um you tell me don't listen to you let's continue talking to you I wonder she got in trouble oh he walked to his car so she picked him out I hope your plan works out the way you wanted to work out but I'm not so sure it may and I know you have a lot of choices here so I mean I know you got some other states you have in mind we talked about Washington and such but I mean if have all these cases really let's let's be honest if all of these people that have died and somebody dying is important I don't want to minimize their death but of all the cases I personally think the very first one the death of your sister and the subsequent revenge murder of the three people that killed her is the most important out of all of them and who's to say that

45:31you don't get back in that car and go back to jail and get hit by a bus on the way back to jail and we never we never get resolution or who's to say you don't have a heart attack tonight or who's to say you go to Florida and you write me and I say you know what I'm busy I don't want to bring you back here to to be made to look like a fool I give you my word that you and your friend are in there okay you give me your word what I give you my word that you're going to find them bodies but what if you have a heart attack tonight no I don't have a heart you don't want to wish anything on you but you know strange things happen I don't want to have a heart attack tonight either but you know what I could you'll be nice to me and I'm gonna I know that you get some points when you find when you open up a case when you close it's when you find them I know you might think that way but to be honest with you um I've got I am and me and my partner both we don't want anything okay with with art with I'm really honest with you with our department if they told me tomorrow that I'm off the homicide team and I'm back working frauds you wouldn't hear me complain

46:35one bit you know what I like like like stealing money and paperwork right you know like writing bad checks and stuff one of the lowest level things we could do if they told me that I was you know working Walmart thefts you wouldn't hear me complain one bit you know why because I get paid the same amount and it would probably make my life a lot easier because I wouldn't be traveling to Viceria five hours away you know and and be driving out to the desert and and doing all these these big planning things you know I wouldn't have to do that the responsibility would be so low I have no desires to promote within my organization I don't want to be a sergeant lieutenant being in homicides one of the best assignments you could have in an entire department I've been there done that you know at this point in my career I don't look as old as I am but I'm fairly old you know I I'm not looking to score points with anybody I could care less to be honest with you and not not to care to care less about this situation I could care less what they think about me whether I come back and I and I and I walk you through the building with handcuffs or I come back and go hey you know what he didn't tell me anything it doesn't matter to me they may be pissed off but I don't care I don't care what they think so no I to be honest with you I get no points I'm not

47:39looking for any points and I'm not looking for a feather in my hat I'm not looking to get on the news I'm not telling me I'll get it sometime but not right now and you know and I just want an honesty and that's the honest answer and that's what I'm going to I'm going to relay back to my bosses when I'm going to write and we're going to leave it at that I don't want no money or nothing because a lot of people offer me money from there was this investigator that went all the way to Kanoha Park Kanoha Park yes yes see LAPD will offer money yeah or should a county and and I don't know about that kind of there's no money I have no money to offer you he went and turned me on similar genius we're from Kanoha Park the LAPD what are they offer you 25,000 no 50,000 it's true they do do that we give you 50,000 dollars if you tell me who shot this man if you know something about it

48:42was it yours no I'm sorry no I don't know I don't know I'm not never do the claiming Kanoha okay we promise you we move your family from one county to another we feed them for six months okay and we pay their utility bills and that's I cannot lay it was because I don't feel comfortable I don't know who did it that mean and I can I say I done it because he's going to ask me a lot of questions and I don't know right you're not going to take responsibility for something you did yes but I'm here asking you to help take responsibility for something that you did do but also help me maybe close the the death of your sisters the investigation in your sister's death you know but I've told you that I need the dates that I went over there and the day they found her body you help me I'm going

49:44to help you okay I have a feeling if I if I was to open up this case book and share everything with you that I may never hear from you again no no I just want to I just want to know the date that because you don't know why they they killed her I don't know why they they killed her right okay but you know that they when they found her body and you know that they when they found her car and you know that date that I went to investigate her there's there's there's a lot of details in this case file of things that not a lot not a lot of people know you don't know me my partner know okay and the original investigators know but not a lot of people know there's so many things in this case file about your sister's death that you are unaware of and I would have no problem if I could close her case sharing all the details of of it with you but that I can't until her case is closed and there's things in there that I think you'd really would like to know but I just want to know those dates okay that's it okay the little things that I

50:50told you about that that the dinners they identify her from her teeth because my mom told me they also told my mother also told me that when they found her car you guys just were looking in the lake because probably they throw her body on the lake she told me that too that's the only mm-hmm but in law enforcement it's not going to share with anybody including the mother of a murder victim information sensitive to the investigation we're only going to tell people what we what we think might benefit the investigation we're not going to tell them the details and some of those details might not be true might or might be missed might might have been told to her in error might have been told to her falsely on purpose might have been told to her maybe they aren't sure but but some of that stuff may not be true I understand what you're asking me for I think you understand what I'm asking you for you and I think basically you're kind of at a

51:50point and correct me from wrong though but you're just you just don't want to I'm going in much more detail about the death of those three men and you don't want to give me any information about where they're buried okay you know and you know I respect that there's nothing more than I can do I was going to write you because you're two copies of the all-in-paper work I did take a copy so we took it back to our can you send those copies to this guy for me you can take extra copies some copies that you've got I don't know if I can do that because that's your personal stuff I can't I don't know that person is I can't just mail something to someone but I mean 30 seconds yeah can't you why can't you mail for your job okay I thought you did you try because that's why you put a turn in all right and did they not send it they don't send it what about your your mom when you're visitors all I cannot take nothing to my visitor room when I go up oh when I go up there they open my mouth they take my pants off because they see I'm a very

52:56high high risk you know give me a second let me let me uh they're here let me uh let me ask see if there's some way to get that done I'm we're not trying to give you our time about it but you know your copies so I think the duration of one yeah you got your senior that ours put it in his five oh hey yes you're not making this easy on us you're making it easy it won't be it won't be easy because we're looking at years down the road and who knows we're dicking I will be in five years if you come to us and say hey let's talk about this about it's gonna be five years it's gonna be a report he's gonna write he's gonna say we went up and we saw Mr. Martinez two different occasions he gave us some information but we're reluctant to give us any additional information we went out to the area we took some video he was unable to pinpoint the area at this point in time we're excited it's going to be open suspended which means nothing else is gonna be done on until someone comes across a we're ready for this one

53:5760 how are we 60 parts of it yeah you're ever saying yeah yeah I know we're somewhere Martinez and Perry yeah all Riverside County West End yeah not out to the desert not that far out yeah it's big honey it's very big so where's I mean Gillette the main jail oh well I guess that would be one's in Riverside that's a big jail Robert Presley detention centers in Riverside there's one in India yeah by the hills and yeah yeah 10 yep that's worth 60 and yeah exactly yeah yeah that's a big facility yeah and the main one I would guess is Riverside well I'm sorry we can't help it with Cecilia how are her children

55:02fine yeah they're nice kids very nice kids yeah all grown up with kids of their own yes do they ask about their you know grandmother her you know the kids mom uh my mother lives a few houses for you yeah my mother but they stay with with my other sister the one day race okay I hope you get some good news on that mail for you oh yes sir this investigator keeps saying he's going to come and he never comes who is he is he the person that's a it's a dress too or someone no no this isn't so bad oh oh oh

56:02I tried to know it out and they went through my camp there and they say that and they were sending can you send you haven't you have a public defender did you say he emailed it to them and asked them to do it they actually have to come and get it did she come visit no because I keep asking you to bring for the paper yeah I send her I needed her more because there's nine more cases and uh I thought I needed more and she told me I will see you later data uh for example get ready for it and learn I know you wind your copies okay your copies is over a thousand pages don't it won't happen over a night it's not gonna happen over a week and that don't think it's gonna happen over a month it happens about two months ago yeah right or no I was thinking I'm gonna pick you up

57:06so she can give me everything you know what we'll have to ask her about completing guilty yes I'm gonna do that yeah if it's truly if they're truly seeking the death penalty if that's gonna mess up your plans you better find that out sooner than later you know I got your cards right there yeah I got your card next year but some our chance that even if you call us later we're not gonna be able to come out I can like it was we had to ask about coming out again they're like well if you didn't give me the information the first time it's like well we took the video it's been a while I'm sure your memory is good it's very good you know pretty weeks ago yeah exactly but we're talking 30 years ago you know I saw some videos some pictures so to help familiarize yourself again with the area maybe you could say yes or no or this area or that area I think you're a letter and took you 70 days to come back it yeah yeah 70 exactly days yeah it takes a while to get to us because it gets into the sheriff's apartment and people read it people try

58:08to figure out what to do with it where to get it so by the time investigator Dickie got it it was probably a few weeks and then of course we can't just come see you we have to coordinate it so it's one thing after another yeah I know but we're here now and that's probably gonna be it you buried them kind of far from the house but on the same side of the street yes you get to grow see they they said that you can mail it out but it has to go through your turn it's a policy that they can't get involved with some of these mail and I'm sure ours is the same too but so just ask to speak to your heavy attorney come visit you and then you know let them know you want to you want to send that out so I guess the only the only thing I have is is to tell you when you're ready to I mean if you get to a point you go back to your to your cell tonight and you feel that you want to you know take us out to where it's at and show us you know I think we could

59:11probably make that happen but you know it's probably just going to be one trip you know I can't I'm not gonna be able to take you out and then bring you back and then oh wait I didn't I don't know where it's at maybe you know or I'm this too difficult maybe another time you know I'd be willing to tell my boss one shot you know and we and he gets one shot and if you if you show us and it works can't give you money obviously I don't need money well yeah so yeah I wanted to leave you with that thought that when you when it comes to point when you are but you know I'm gonna I'm gonna move on to you know doing some other investigations now okay that's kind of where we're at how do we know if you make it to Florida we say we want he wants to come talk to us how do we know Florida's gonna let you come out yeah what I'm just gonna let you go they say no he's got all these court cases he's got things he needs to deal with here they're not just gonna say go ahead and go and come on back whenever you want you've got a you've got no gush gush power gush power oh I don't know that's you're putting a lot of a lot of faith in the

1:00:19fact that things might go that way and I that's a lot of moving parts yeah I don't know that's there's some version risk there because I don't know they might not and they might say yeah you can have them for 24 hours or 48 hours but you bring them back they're getting they'll say how do we know this is even true and we're gonna say we have no proof okay okay all right yes okay the other side thanks for taking the time to talk to others okay scrub a seat and I'm gonna go grab your uh you're uh I'm scared yeah you're transporting it okay is that the paperwork or my sister that's it that's not everything now this is uh this is

1:01:27kind of like a lot of summary stuff but see I'll hold this uh see how old this paper is yeah even even smells old you know like a whole paper I know I know this is not this is not everything but this is uh it's it's the summary stuff if I had to if I had to come in with everything I'd come in with a like five boxes there's a guy who who writes me say journalist a journalist a journalist yeah the one this guy or the one that's on the other one right there about five guys who write okay one from a central woolly Washington okay that one if I could write we like a kindergarten paper you know the brown paper with blue lines like kindergarten oh my goodness we're in the smartiness okay now you've listened now go to your thing