Kash Patel Screws the Pooch

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2:05Check it out for yourself at happy GLP.com. That's happy GLP.com. A happy price for a happier you. Com count at medications or not FDA approved. Electrability required to determine why a licensed provider, individual results may vary. See website for details. The BI I found earlier this year that you don't have a right to a closing argument in immigration court. They just found them. That's just the thing they held. What about the BHDL? It automatically disqualified any individual who participated on either side of it. Hello and welcome to opening arguments. This is episode 1297. I'm Thomas. That over there is real life immigration attorney Matt Cameron. How are you doing Matt? Hey Thomas, you know, every week I worry that it's going to be a slow news week and we're not going to have anything to talk about.

3:08Let's do it. I know it's 2026. Why would I be concerned about that? I'm going to save you some worrying Matt. That never happens. The news hose continues to bless us and just douse us in news. I really thought it was a slow news week for a while, at least. I mean, obviously the economy is doing what it's doing and everything else is happening. The way it's happening, there's actually a point to talk about and some things that maybe aren't getting enough attention as always that we can get into. We've got quite a lot to talk about today actually. Yeah, there's a lot going on. What are we going to be talking about? We're going to touch on the big USPS case in which the Supreme Court had the opportunity to completely destroy our chances of having a democracy. They chose not to do that. I want to let Janessa cover the most important election aspects of this, but I just want to give people the framework of what this thing is and isn't. The illiterate descent, of course, just exactly as expected is just completely nuts because that's what you expect from an illiterate descent in something as earthshaking as trying to completely change the way that we do thorough elections. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Interesting thing has been true for the last 10 years, even though it feels like things are worse than ever, and maggot wise, Republican wise, the two worst justices are two of the oldest, one of the oldest and let's see, Zaliga, Lita, the second longest ten year, or maybe the third?

4:19Yeah, after Thomas. Is he second or I wasn't sure if he's after Robert's second, remember? Robert's first. Yeah, that's right. So Thomas, Robert, Zaliga. So two of the oldest justices who've been there the longest anyway are two of the worst and by far worse. Yeah, you know, like as bad as the other ones are, don't get me wrong. This vote is one of those where you're like, how what is the line for them? What would they not, you know, where would they draw the line on some of this stuff? Very much like birthright citizenship. There's a lot of parallels here. This is very much one of those questions where we have gone all the way to the Supreme Court to ask, K, what color is the sky? Yeah, we got six people. Yeah, seven, two. Yeah, whatever. We got five people at least that say that the sky is blue and we've got one person saying, check back with me later. Yeah, well, yeah, one person in Congress can pass a lot of change of color to sky if they want maybe. Yeah, that's, you know, that's usually Kavanaugh. Yeah, and then there's a Kavanaugh thing happening in this one. And then you've got the two people that are like, no, the earth is just like strapped the back of a check and it's fine. Don't worry about it. Yeah, I don't know what color the sky is. The reminder, this is just the president can't just change voting with an executive order, right?

5:20I mean, isn't that pretty, pretty clear from your lips to God's ears? I don't know. It's supposed to work. States are supposed to have a lot of authority of this kind of thing and we're not supposed to just allow the federal government to say that a whole bunch of things can't be mailed unless it meets a whole bunch of qualifications, especially weeks before an election. No, it's a, yeah, she's our expert. I'll let her handle the election while part of it. But I want to talk about the legal sort of framework. As I said, we'll talk about the state of political prosecutions, there's been some interesting developments with DOJ's many efforts to find all of these political enemies of the president and prosecute them, including a pretty interesting fourth circuit argument about the James Comey and Lutisha James prosecutions with Lindsey Hell again, of course, the argument over whether or not she was properly appointed. We've got a really weird board of immigration appeals case and I always like to touch on BIA cases because nobody else is reporting on them. The board of immigration appeals is very much a forgotten agency and it is one of the most important agencies in the country right now for reasons I can explain. They have just issued this month a decision that is the most openly pro-Trump political decision that I have seen out of them yet.

6:22And it's just adopting Trump's version of reality in a way that anybody can understand this is not even really a legal decision. So we'll talk about that. Also on kind of a similar vein, we've got the public charge rule is back and you might have heard of that from the first Trump term. It's actually something that goes back to the 1800s. It's the very specific Stephen Miller version of the public charge rule and it's designed of course to keep as many people out as possible to keep them from immigrating. That's an immigration rule. Oh, the one where it's like you can't come in if you would be a burden to the public or something. That's right. Zorn Mamdani has just filed the latest challenge. Lombani, yes, I'm sorry that the Nazis always say it wrong. Did I add? I'm not always great with names. Lombani. Zorn Mamdani has filed the first shot and I think will be a successful challenge. It was stopped the first time. I want to talk a little bit about the difference this time because it's pretty interesting actually and how they learned from the last set of litigation and how they are trying to sneak it in this time. It's pretty important. I think it's going to be in the news a lot pretty soon here. So I'm getting out of that. And then in today's footnote, you're going to find out why I had to Google the words cash, Patel.

7:24I've seen it around. Lydia said to me. And sometimes it's like, I just don't, I don't want to, I don't want to do it. I will for the show. But I'm like, sometimes I'm like, that whatever that is sucks and I don't need to be a part of it. But I will be for the show. It's very funny, but it's also telling about what's going on with the FBI right now. And it actually, there's a bigger point to it beyond just the fact that they're going to totally let people who have been involved with these Geoity become FBI agents. I can't even say that out loud. Oh, man. We'll get to it. It says a lot about things, but we'll explain it all. Yeah, that is our footnote today is cash Patel's experience talking about these geology and Congress. Beaciality in Congress or be Finally, we're on the lid off this thing. Who knows these days? There's a lot of comic beats just like that one. Yeah. The bestiality conversation that we're going to listen to. Can't wait. Yeah. Well, we'll take our usual break sports show patreon.com slash a log at the goodies. The lot of movies avoid the ads the book club the everything.

8:24Thanks so much to the supporters. We'll take a break and we'll get to it. Shows brought to you by ship station. Hey, did you know most businesses are overpaying on shipping without even realizing it? It's one of those things where you don't think about it and then all of a sudden you're paying way too much. Well, ship station automatically compares rates across UPS, U.S.PS and FedEx on every order with savings up to 90%. Hey, if you're a small business owner who's piecing you're shipping together across multiple tools and services, what is that actually costing you every day? Not just in money, but in time, which is extremely valuable when you own a business. I know because I don't have any of it. So wouldn't it feel great to just have one thing that handled all of that? That ship station, the end-to-end order fulfillment platform for e-commerce businesses, built to handle your entire shipping workflow so you or your team can focus on growth. Over one million businesses leveled up their shipping with shipstation. With customers reporting scaling fulfillment up to 40 times while cutting costs up to 30%.

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12:34So for a free no charge no obligation consultation head to 3-dayblinds.com slash save 50 for our buy one get 150% off deal. That's the number 3, dawideblinds.com slash save 50. Come on and get happy with happy GLP.com. At just $99 a month happy GLP gives you one set price every month. No tears, no tricks. Getting started with happy GLP is fast, convenient and happens virtually with a licensed provider. Check it out for yourself at happy GLP.com. That's happy GLP.com. A happy price for a happier you. Compounded medications are not FDA approved eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider individual results may vary. See website for details. Well, let's talk about the biggest news legally of the last week, which is of course the Supreme Court as we said, determining that this guy is in fact blue and that it turns out that at the very last minute you can't actually just decide that the postal service can throw at 10,000 ballots at a time.

13:36You know, you just have talked about this somewhat about the rules change the attempt of trying to have like a federally standardized mail and ballot thing. The whole thing is obviously designed to basically negate mail and ballots like to make it almost impossible for people to successfully get mail or always to take down the numbers of successful mail and balance. It's very obvious that this is a last minute midterm grab. That's why it was so essential that the court do what they did. And again, this is exactly like the birthright citizenship thing to me where clearly something illegal that the executive is trying to do has to be stopped and zero gold stars for staffing it guys like thank you, but no, yeah, I just wanted to read you very quickly. How this actually worked because it is a rules change that is just so obviously reviewable the postal service to be fair and we don't just have a point here. Congress for whatever reason did exempt the postal service from all kinds of review like they have a very much independent kind of thing going where there's all kinds of statutes and apply to the administrative procedures act doesn't necessarily apply the same way, but it does apply and it is arbitrary and capricious to just change things at the last minute obviously.

14:38Yeah, there's a reason that Alito doesn't mention the voters or the public or the people are actually going to be harmed by this right. Let's just start with the majority. There's six people who are agreeing that there should be an junction on this and it's not going to happen. So that's the really good news that's it that's the end of this thing and it is something to celebrate the government is unlikely to succeed in the merits of its challenge to the district courts preliminary junction. Of course, that's a very important analysis when you're trying to get a stay is your chance you're actually going to win is it more likely than not the equitable factors applicable for obtaining emergency relief from this court do not favor of stay. And of course, those factors also include things like a reputable harm now the reputable harm in this case is not to the public although they can consider that as we'll talk about, but it's to the government. Is there going to be a reputable harm to the federal government if the state's ballots can't be messed up is basically the question. Yeah, so that's pretty stupid. So the cabinet concurrence and you know, as you mentioned, of course, with the birthright citizenship, Kevin, I had to have it his own way and say, well, I think there's actually not a constitutional right to birthright citizenship and Congress could change the statute. And here this is very concerning what he says and again, this is not the majority view yet, but give Trump another couple of Supreme Court justices or one more.

15:42We're going to start on some problems here. He's saying that there's at least a fair prospect of the final rule falls within the Postal Services statutory authority, but applying the rule in the 2026 elections would be arbitrary and capricious in violation of the APA because state and local officials do not have sufficient time to reasonably implement the rule before the elections. You don't say as a massive battleship of a project to completely reform every one of these jurisdictions, mail in ballots to conform with the stupid rule. He's saying basically if you brought this to me earlier that I could have told you the sky was purple, but they were not doing that now. If you give me some time to start messing up my eyes a little bit. Yeah, that's some lead time. Yeah, and that started that was a little or that was. Oh, that was. Kevin, the cabinet got to have his weird answer to it. Yeah, that's right. His word concurrence as expected. And this is exactly what I thought was going to happen. A little on Thomas come out with the weird take the Postal Service can do whatever it wants. There actually is a reputable harm to the government to the federal government if they don't get to do this. He does not mention the potentially millions of people they could be disenfranchised by this. Of course, because I really cares about is what Trump wants to do. He's saying basically that this isn't what they call an ultravieries argument and that it should not work ultravier is of course being you know beyond the power because the APA the administrative procedures act may not apply to the Postal Services exercise of powers.

16:51And I think maybe Genesis can explain a little bit more about some of the technical details here. But I don't think I need to tell you that this the lead of descent is contradictory to the law to logic to facts. It certainly does not fit with my understanding of what she get an injunction because this is obviously so last minute. It's obviously so fraught with problems. He also blames the court and the plaintiffs for the delay. This rule came out. I think in April and he's talking about how the court wasted a month writing a 40 page decision before when they sent it back as premature. What he never talks about this in any other case. It's so weird. It wasn't even that much time. But they they will take their sweet time with you know whether Jack Smith was lawfully appointed her. Yeah. Also they could just left it to the lower court. I mean that doesn't exactly go against what Alito saying because he's nuts. But I still can't get over that part where it's like they reach their grubby mitts down to mess with this right. Yeah. And then ultimately are they doing anything substantially different from what the lower court did anyway now. Alito of course is completely disregarding what the lower court did because that's what he does. Sure. But I mean like the effective. Effectively yes now we still have a stay. What were you in here. This whole thing could have been an email. They could have let. Yep. Just the lower court decision which was considered. It's their effing job to actually look at it. The lower court but much effort into it. And this just feels like does it they must not have enough to do the Supreme Court right.

18:09Famously they have not enough to do so they took this whole course of action for no reason other than I think to just try to kind of signal Trump support a little bit even though it ultimately. Or just to have with us like what was the point of this whole thing you know they just have to have the final say they have to be the court of last resort they just love doing it and here they make sense it's kind of like just trying to hang on to as much of their power exert as much power and influences they can I guess yeah but you know it's pretty clear that Alito buys into the fraud conspiracy. Stuff and that he really thinks this is worthwhile and that it should be done that's what we'd expect we know at this point we expect nothing out of Samuel. But there you go. So we can move on to our next topic here which is just a quick check in on the state of political prosecutions in the United States. Just that just a quick check in the fascism it was on my mind this week because the fourth circuit was taking up the oral arguments and I want to cover more arguments in the circuits because they can get pretty interesting in the case it's a combined case of let's just James and James come the first James come in the one in which they're saying he lied to Congress.

19:12These were both dismissed as we've discussed before because Lindsey how again was unwaffly appointed for a very long and complicated explanation here but essentially Trump was trying to stretch out her term way beyond what is allowed because she couldn't get through Congress. For circuit is looking at this and there is obviously one question that I have when we're talking about unwaffly appointments which is why you were so quick to say that Jack Smith was on waffle appointed and this is different somehow yeah the show is aren't too impressed with this all around. I think this points up to what I was trying to say to your honors earlier which is that an indefinite appointment is not equivalent to a time limited term appointment again that would that's a recipe for instability and I think the Senate would very much have something to say about that if we behaved in that way which we haven't done despite taking the position since at least 1987. Well, that's a success of the circuit role and she how would you how would you then distinguish United States versus Trump when just can.

20:15And that Mr Smith whatever was able to what lawfully appointed what happens in this case how can you stay if this halogen is not lawfully appointed. Well, of course in the in the Smith case we didn't invoke the interim appointments statute your honor that's that's point number one point point is it is she says it wasn't a lawful appointment. She did your honor but Judge can and there was faced with the appointment of a special counsel to which different appointment authorities apply for example in this case we could have appointed Ms. Halogen to conduct these prosecutions under five twenty eight USC five forty two and five forty three which were appointment authorities that the United States did not invoke in defending the Jack Smith appointment and was really driving I think well Judge can is. I put it bluntly would have could have should have that the question is was the appropriate appointing statute use and was it used in a proper manner and I'm going back to your point about incentives I understand that you.

21:26You're representing that this administration has no incentive to engage in a cascade or carousel of interim appointees but under your reading of the statute that is the logical conclusion that executive could to pair to you know. I'm on to judge floor it's question on day one hundred and nineteen just continue with a succession of appointments thereby essentially cutting off of the court the district court and the Senate advice and consent power is that true no it's not true your honor because we have no incentive no no see that's that's not responsive you're saying you have no incentive but under your reading of the statute a nefarious. I'm near to the executive could do exactly that right. Well well in theory your honor what will you see in theory or not your honor yes but I think the court needs to look at the practical application of the statute I really like that moment of the hypothetical what if there's an a very executive the bad thing just the right there I think I happen I guess but that's not what happening here so the reason it matters so much that was a judge Henry Floyd and there's a George W. Bush nominee and I

22:35appreciate his skepticism throughout this argument for is interesting is this issue actually is the argument is pretty dry because so much it was about statutory interpretation but the fundamental point they're getting at is that the government tried to ratify that the pan body went back and said actually everything that Lindsey how again did was fine and we're going to ratify give it our blessing basically even though she was unlawfully appointed yet of course in the Smith case they were vociferously arguing that Jack Smith was unlawfully appointed and of course I lean can't have bought that argument even though as he says it's different statutes different grounds in theory if you think that somebody's unlawfully appointed and you had to go back and ratify that then it should be the same thing that anything that they did was off the table it didn't happen not that we're surprised by hypocrisy but I just wanted to point that part out it's hard to say where this is going the judges are pretty skeptical Floyd is very much against allowing this to happen just to be clear about what we're doing this this is both with the James with the stupid mortgage fraud thing and James come with his allegedly lying to Congress to the kind of combined issues because Lindsey how again was involved with both of them and presented and signed off on the indictments James comey not with the sea shell thing is that right that die that's still pending there says a good first amendment challenge on that obviously I think that's going to be fine we'll see where this goes in terms of the other political

23:45prosecutions I just want to mention there was the thing with the list of slack and the other five lawmakers that made that video about how military troops should have to follow legal orders which seemed pretty straightforward just reminder everybody that the DC grand jury refused to indict on that they're trying to indict item shift from mortgage fraud very much the way they're trying to indict letitian james that doesn't seem to be going anywhere there's an investigation now into how that probe was run there's the Lisa cook thing the fed person where there there's a criminal probe opened and of course the Supreme Court found that she can't be removed because she's on the fed even though other independent agency people can be removed. We've got miles Taylor you might remember as the guy who wrote the anonymous piece and then the book from inside the administration he's been investigated by executive order nothing has happened on that yeah this is something to watch and then we got John Bolton when we talk about the Bolton prosecution was somewhat righteous he did actually have a real problem he classified material on his personal accounts like real classified material has hacked by around. Oh was that real because I thought it was like they were trying to kind of get him by just being stingy about was still classified but I guess I don't it's been a while there was actually an issue with and this was started by Biden so this is not necessarily straight up Trump political prosecution but this is the only one of any of these that were talking about the start my thing you have a different thing because there was when he was releasing a book Trump tried to stop him so they were trying to say yeah that is different that the thing about the book but I think that that was at least an investigation nothing's got to trial yet on any of these things but the thing I really want to talk about was what they call the grand conspiracy.

25:09Grand jury which was in you'll never believe this Fort Pierce Florida of all places where all the crime happens apparently and of course as we know the best judge in Fort Pierce Florida the best federal judge there is Island cannon and also the only judge in Fort Pierce Florida if you bring a grand jury now this hasn't made it past the grand jury yet fortunately but if it did it would go to Island cannon and they know it and they have not yet even presented an explanation for why this is happening in Fort Pierce except I guess that Mara Lago is there part of this is about the search on Trump but let me just explain very quickly so I think we've talked about this but it's called the grand conspiracy grand jury because the main target is John Brennan who is the you know obviously intelligence chief he's got a subpoena coming up for a grand jury that they're trying to quash right now but they're trying to fold in everybody that Trump doesn't like into this conspiracy they want to get as many people involved in this thing as possible but they have to bring it under 18 USC 241 which is conspiracy against civil rights so that would run the conspiracy basically from one of the conspiracy started in 2022 it allows them to still bring it the big news out of this was that Joe to Genova who is like a hardcore fraud conspiracy theorist somebody who really seem to believe the Trump was being

26:16persecuted by law fair he resigned from this thing he was like one of the true believers it might be a little more complicated than true believer resigns from grand jury but I think this is a really good sign and who knows what kind of video they're going to replace him with he's basically said they were rushing this thing it's been five or six months they've got no indictments and I'm obviously Trump wants something before the midterms another coming up on the 60 day rule they can prosecute any kind of political figures or get into political prosecutions before midterms this thing is worth watching because obviously if any of these diamonds happen they're going to be ending up in front of alien cannon and that's what they're counting on but this to me is sort of the pinnacle of Trump political prosecutions this conspiracy thing because it really is like an actual I mean it obviously the statute is conspiracy but they're talking about the kind of conspiracy that just involves everybody this was the whole thing that John Durham was already appointed to look into and he could bring no conspiracy charges after four years you have to be able to prove some kind of specific intent among people across two administrations people that never even worked with each other you know maybe never even talked potentially going back to 2016 and all the stuff that Trump keeps talking about with

27:22Russia the Mueller investigation and Marlowe searches the bitch ex-smith prosecutions they're trying to add everything into one sort of big grand conspiracy of the deep state basically from what I can tell just kind of looking at all of this in one place obviously it should fail I hope it fails and I hope it never makes it to I mean cannon but I think it's a really good sign that we've got this resignation from somebody who seemed to actually believe in it what are we going to be looking for with that I mean what's the next step there the Brennan thing is a thing to watch he's been subpoenaed to come in and testify he is the main target of this investigation because they put him at the center of the sort of conspiracy obviously he's supposed to be testifying October 15th so we'll see how that goes or if he actually comes in there what's the conspiracy I great question I don't know if I missed it or just like in general these days DOJ is just like yeah it's conspiracy if there's more than one person we don't like that's conspiracy they're working together Mike Davis you know of course you have hardcore Trump politician here calls it a decades long conspiracy to bankrupt Trump and try to throw him in prison and this is literally I mean it's not a stretch to say this is just kind of all of the

28:24conspiracy theories in one place all of your favorites all in one place who's even I'm sure there's some qon on stuff thrown in here just for fun they're going all the way back to 2016 and they're trying to say that there's been this ongoing deep state intelligence community conspiracy to come after Trump and of course the Jackson with prosecutions and they really wants to be able to prove on some kind of federal record that he's been prosecuted unfairly that he's been persecuted this is law fair like so many things like the election stuff right as soon as it hits the courts it's a different thing you can talk all day on newsmax about your conspiracies but you actually have to prove this to a grand jury and I don't think it's going to happen especially because the John Durham thing it was like that guy was really trying and he'd got nothing came up with nothing at all no conspiracy there was one guy that was indicted for falsifying an email all right well we're going to take a quick break and then get to the rest this podcast is supported by your southern california keya dealers it's hard not to notice how many electric vehicles are on the 405 101 and 10 freeways these days better technology convenient charging and longer driving range are making the switch to electric more practical than ever

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31:330.65% new client boost for three months on up to 150,000 dollars direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase cash account offered by well-thrund brokerage LLC member finra sipc not a bank instant withdrawal subject to conditions fees and eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account. All right Matt we got some immigration related stories yeah quite a few but I'll I'll narrow it down to the things I think are interesting this week. As I said the board of immigration appeals does not get enough attention because it's something that really only immigration lawyers care about but it has an enormous amount of power because it is the appellate body for the immigration courts and it's just a couple dozen people at this point majority Trump appointed any immigration judge that makes any decision the government can appeal and this is actually pretty unusual because it just doesn't happen in criminal cases the government can appeal with a grant goes their way yeah and they can rubber stamp whatever and or they can reverse it and say the judge was wrong to grant something and send it back. This is the kind of thing where when I wear the top one thing on this case is like well that sounds like it could be promising and then I realized it was about Venezuela so here's the deal. This is somebody who's bringing an asylum claim based on the fact that he was working against the Maduro regime well I represent a number of people who were

32:35in one way or another put a clean vault and trying to oppose the Maduro regime in Venezuela. The immigration judge found that there's a change in country conditions which is a really important idea in asylum law because it means that yes okay maybe I would have granted this a year ago but now the United States is fixed Venezuela. Oh it's all it's all set. It's all different. Oh it's fine. The immigration judge though wrote that the essence of the Maduro government remains which is true from everything we know we removed the guy at the top maybe there's some shuffling around at the top but like all of the people that this guy is afraid of are still there and they're still in government yeah they had some amnesty for like a few hundred people but they have in no way stopped for a persecuting political enemies from what we can tell. The reason I want to mention this is because the board found this in a way that basically is going along with the Trump narrative that in this one quick move that he fixed Venezuela and if you don't really am talking about it now but he did at the time he's talking about how it's ours now and yes we reopen the embassy and Venezuela but that doesn't really mean very much. Everything is pretty much still the same after the immigration judge's decision they took notice of like a fact sheet some

33:38press statements some Senate testimony from our group you these are not what we call commonly known facts he's just basically administration promotional materials like this is the stuff that they want you to believe about Venezuela you know the fact that we have a new oil agreement which is obviously a lot of the point of trying to get into Venezuela. Does that make that guy feel better like he's exactly yeah right I mean like he's a decident he's still opposed this regime that is still there and the fact that we have some leverage on the government and maybe weigh some influence doesn't tell you that we can stop any of this the most frustrating thing is that the board has done this before where they'll they'll reach a precedent decision because they don't have to make all these precedent decisions but they'll publish it as a precedent they'll say it's a precedent but they're sending it back because they said the judge reached a conclusion refinding as to the fact that this was basically not a substantial change in the country circumstances and that means that we can't review it did a circuit court can't review it it is now a presidential it was a remand that is precedent so it's not going to get reviewed by an actual judicial court and then it always bothers me so this is now something in all Venezuela and asylum cases that the government can cite and say well this is actually a material change in country conditions it actually turns out that it is a

34:40different country now just because we went in an illegally kidnapped their president wow it really bothers me because it is that's terrible Trump reality why would that change anything the oil deal especially is like hey you're worried about getting killed by your own country but you know America's getting some oil now so it should fix that right yeah I don't understand it's a political decision but that's the thing is I mean this is it to be clear this is not a judicial court this is administrative body just as the immigration courts are administrative body and I wanted to pick this one out because I get emails about be I'd precedence every day I try to review what the BI has been doing because it matters so much for our individual on the ground practice in immigration court the BIA found earlier this year that you don't have over right to a closing argument in immigration court they just found that that's just the thing they held where they find it because it's immigration court the rules don't matter yeah it's under the out of the couch here yeah it turns out yeah because you don't have constitutional rights you don't have procedural due process rights the same way you have basic ones but they're statutory and they can be changed and they found there's no statutory right to a closing argument just to give you the idea of something very simple and straightforward that you would never think would be challenged that way fortunately the judges and Boston let us do a closing because they want to know and the irony of

35:43course is that if they had actually allowed a closing argument if the judge had allowed a closing argument in this very complicated asylum case he almost certainly wouldn't have made the mistakes that he made on the record that they reversed him for and that was another one where they reversed him sent it back and then made this a presidential decision that you don't have to have a closing argument and the judge can cut you off and say now I'm just going to decide now I've seen the evidence it's a small thing but it matters a lot for lawyers like that's it's huge just to give you the idea because nobody I guarantee you nobody is talking about the board of immigration appeals on any podcast and anybody's listening to you yeah I'd want to make sure I throw it in once no I'll because this is the real nuts and bolts this is how the sausage gets made and this is where the real policy is happening because you got this majority Trump appointed thing an administrative body that nobody cares about that is able to keep a squeeze on the immigration courts and make sure that they follow Trump policy just want to show you how that plays out. Chase if we get somebody else in there how quickly can we get rid of every immigration judge ever that Trump hired it's going to take a little while but a lot of them will still be on probation in the first two years it's a lot easier they're starting to just appoint a while now okay I hear that answer Matt now let me try again yeah hot if we are as aggressive as Republicans were as

36:47Magga is can we make that a little faster is there anything we can do what can we we need a project 2029 with this exact thing one Trump policy that's going to backfire is the fact that he pretty much destroyed the immigration judges union so at this point I think anything goes I think they can be replaced pretty easily they're not real judges that adds up to now two unions that I don't support yeah it's a cop union and the immigration judge union no yeah they they should have a union but yeah I know I'm with the other police unions in this case that's fine I'll take it if if we makes it that much easier to replace people every time I see one of these news stories about immigration judges being fired there's always comments are like Trump is so always he's firing judges well yeah it sounds pretty bad but they're not judges they're DOJ employees yeah for once that's the is legal thing he could do yeah it sounds like pick the one thing that he did that wasn't illegal that's right that's why I got to listen to our show that's what we're here for it to try to actually talk about the actual mechanics of how this immigration policy plays out so I want to talk about one more thing which is the public charge role and this one got a lot more news I remember when you and Lydia and I talked about Stephen Miller we did all episode of him it was

37:51a lot of fun he in high school was obsessed with the public charge rule which is so weird yeah in case you've been you missed that episode let me summarize it yes he's always been this way yes and for no reason like he was a bully he was the bully like he was just like this Satan happened to spawn in yep human form no sympathy imagine like well everybody's doing normal high school stuff you're sitting around reading about the public charge rule and thinking about wow way too many immigrants who don't have enough money are coming to this country that's the thing you're saying that you shouldn't have to pick up your trash because the janitors will pick it I remember that exactly is that what it was yeah it's all pretty consistent what an asshole this comes from a very old immigration statute which goes back to Chinese exclusion days it was 1891 that introduced this whether you can admit someone who's likely to become a public charge there's been pretty straightforward tests of back and forth across the years it's often been very much in the discretion of the officer and it's been pretty generous for the most part as it should be because people can have temporary circumstances that make them unable to work it's very very very unlikely that people are just going

38:53to show up here and start taking public benefits if this was because immigrants can't get most public benefits yeah what one yeah exactly but everybody needs to help sometimes the previous rule in 2019 was so long and so complicated and it introduced a form that we all hated so much and new thing that made the residency process so much more complicated essentially like looking into all of these different factors in your life your education your ability to speak English any potential thing that looked like maybe you've used public benefits you had potentially the opportunity to explain about reasons why you've been on a work maybe you're taking care of a parent maybe you're you're disabled or something but it was not very case by case it was very much trying to exclude as many people as possible of course it was stopped eventually in 2020 in a New York case in federal case and so I was really interested when this new rule came out and the reason I'm talking about it now is because it becomes effective the day that this show is airing on Friday September 18th what I'm looking to see is if this court challenge filed by New York City is going to stop it and I hope that it will stay it because they've filed one injunction request obviously together with the

39:56actual complaint and I took a look at this complaint last night kind of went through it I'm trying to see what they might have learned from 2019 they're trying a different tack here what they tried to do before in 2018 was it was actual rulemaking where they tried to promulgate an actual rule I think it was over 100 pages it was very lengthy had a lot of different stuff in it there are some hardline things like if you had more than 12 months of designated benefits within 36 months and we could automatically find you a public charge long list of different kinds of benefits that weren't counted before that now would be counted toward that level study or the way it's supposed to work and the way that it's worked for most of the time that we've been alive has been that you file what's called an affidavit support if you're the petitioner is mostly family cases that we're talking about that are going to be affected by this that's how most people immigrant is their family and so you found an affidavit support where you show that I'm making a certain amount of money here's my tax returns here's my current job and that's enough we just say basically that here's one person who can vouch for you that's going to be the petitioner the family petitioner has to do that if they can't sustain it then you can get a joint petitioner and it can be any US citizen or resident that can help out and can be the joint petitioner and say I'll take responsibility and it's a pretty

40:57big deal because you're actually signing a statement that says that if this person takes benefits they're not supposed to get the federal government can come after you oh wow they can get the money out of you so it's a huge deal so freaking hard core about the dumbest shit oh yeah yeah and this is also this has become a men's rights issue this is actually kind of funny there is like a whole genre of whining that I really enjoy online of men who have been rightfully accused of domestic abuse or other kinds of abuse during the marriage and of course that's a special visa category that you don't have to stay married to somebody who's abusing you and if you can prove obviously through testimony from your friends and psychiatric evidence that you've been an abusive relationship you can get a self petitioning visa but the wonderful thing about this is if they previously signed the applicator support they're still on the hook right so they're very mad about this that you know that they still have to suffer this because this woman lied about them in public or whatever it's a huge obligation I always make sure to warn people just so they know and obviously my clients aren't in it for benefits they're here to work they're here to support themselves and their families very few people that I've worked with in 21 years who are living on public benefits and if they

41:58are that's usually because they're disabled I warn people that the only way out of this is when this person becomes a citizen or dies that's it otherwise you're on the hook whatever they do in the future well people are one designed that because they know the people they're signing for what they did this time instead of doing the whole room at rulemaking process is they tried to bury the rule inside a bunch of guidelines which I don't think is going to work out well for them in 2022 obviously a job item immediately repealed the public charge rule as soon as he could and then they repealed that repeal and replaced it with nothing what you've got basically is a general statement of policy and certainly published right but they're trying to keep this a lot looser and they're trying to put this more into the hands of adjudicators on the ground and they're giving them kind of some outlines of things they can look for and it's much more detail than never was kind of goes back to the Ellis Island days where they made decisions on the spot as you're standing there in front of them and they'd say well this looks like a young able bodied man looks like he's here to work out a lot of men versus if somebody seems like maybe you know they're disabled and some way of course there was there has always been significant disability discrimination in immigration law or you know if it otherwise seems like they showed up to the country drunk or

43:02something I don't know or they don't have anybody that they can say they're going to live with when they get here they can turn around as a public charge that was always something they could do on the spot this only covers residency applications when you're here and you're trying to apply through residency there's a whole other public charge analysis that's being considered right now for the consulates that I want to get into that's a whole other thing but this is about adjusting domestically they did learn something about trying to make this a little more vague and like not going through the road making process but I do think that's going to end up biting them because they should have why is it going to come back to bite them so it's basically just guidance that obviously they're all going to follow but it needs to be done with noticing comment and this has always been an issue yeah all these things and it comes back to bite Democrats too if they don't follow the process yeah we usually do you know usually oh yeah usually but there's ways you can make an emergency thing but also it is arbitrary and capricious this country at a while like there's some some stuff in here that just departs from the actual statutory law we'll see how it plays out but I think that we'll at least get an injunction I hope so but any application filed as of the 18th has to include a lot of this new stuff they're going to include it on the residency application a lot of people are already asking us what this means and you know I'm going to be eligible it's

44:04going to be much more case by case but they're trying to actually vacate the thing not just get a universal injunction because they can't really get those anymore and they're just trying to say this whole thing should go we'll see how it goes I'll keep a watch on it this is really important this matters a lot and this is very much one of the core Trump immigration policies which is why I've been waiting and honestly I don't know why it took this long I thought they were going to come out with this last year because they already knew what they wanted I think they were really trying to craft something that would survive a little better well even the fascists have to sleep sometime you know they can they did quite a lot it's gonna busy yeah a couple years yeah they have a lot how to want to do you're a break man like guy yeah but the whole thing I mean even just the headlines about it is a chilling effect and makes people not want to apply and makes people potentially not get benefits that actually they need for their families this only applies to people are applying for residency now but I'm meeting lots of questions people are already residents to him it does not apply one of the things we know that Stephen Miller wanted to do in Trump's second term which I have no reason to believe they won't try to do now and this question is not answers as far as I know in this is that there is also something that has never been used before which is a deportability

45:05provision about public charge that they can actually deport you for being poor or for falling in hard times or for having a bad credit score ultimately like they're they're talking about having credit scores go into this analysis wow that gets dark I don't want to have that yeah yeah I mean you have a bad couple of years your business fails you have to take care of your mother something right you should be able to explain that that should not be something you get deported for hope that doesn't go that far and I think that is going to be a lot more controversial because that's something when you're getting a deportation you're taking people status away and removing them from the country I would hope the students step in at that point wow I just imagine all the bullshit we do around this apply it to doing in Iran war yeah I think Trump should have to get a supervisor to be like all right I promise he's not going to do in Iran war and if he does it's on me you know what I mean like all that we're nickel and diming these immigrants that just probably want to come here and work because in case they get a little bit of benefits sometime and it's just for what like what could possibly be the financial implications of this to the country broadly speaking just means test after means test can we means test the the pedophiles yeah we means test the Epstein class

46:11that rules our government you know yeah no I've actually I've just been reading a character lemon which is a new book about how Elon Musk destroyed Twitter and one thing I didn't know during some of that litigation when he got in trouble for some of his tweets the court actually had to appoint a Twitter sitter to screen all of the Elon Musk's tweets to think that we need that for the entire government especially for Trump's tweets obviously Twitter sitter yeah then you should be a supervisor if you're gonna end up in an Epstein list there's get you somebody's gonna be on the hook for you know some promise that's all we swear you're not in the Epstein files oh boy yeah well speaking of sexually deep deep in behavior great transition what a lead-out take our last break and then I'm excited to talk about this a little bit more I don't I won't say cheerful but it's a little less depressing than the pretty funnestation news yeah I got a quite equipped for you all right quick break and then we'll be right back are you tired of the confusing bait and switch pricing on GLP ones then visit happy glp

47:11calm where it's always ninety nine dollars a month at happy glp whether you're brand new or renewing it's ninety nine dollars every time no teaser price no switch up getting started is fast convenient and happens virtually with a license provider check it out happy glp calm compounded medications are not FDA approved eligibility required and determined by a license provider individual results may vary see website for details hey it's Kelly Rowland you may not know this but I have exama so I get how it can steal your time but why let exama take over when you can talk to your doctor ebglus lubricism ab lbkz a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe exama also called a topic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies ebglus can be used with or without topical corticosteroids don't use if you are allergic to ebglus

48:13allergic reactions can occur that can be severe eye problems can occur tell your doctor if you have newer worsening eye problems you should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebglus before starting ebglus tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection paid partnership with lily respect your time ask your doctor about ebglus and visit ebglus calm or call 1-800-LilyRx or 1-800-545-5979 Join Jack Johnson on his surf film music 2026 summer tour with very special guests in select cities air monos cootieras lakes three dive and g-love get tickets now at live nation.com at my bank i was literally getting pennies using wall front cha-ching there's this much that i'm getting an interest in i didn't have to do anything clients like angela earn up to 4.2% apy on their cash with the wealthfront cash account get started at wealthfront.com client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial creating a conflict of interest outcomes vary 3.3% base apy as of January 30th 2026 is represented variable and earned on funds swept to program banks 0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000

49:15direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase cash account offered by wealthfront brokerage LLC member finra sipc not a bank okay i'll finally click on the thing my wife sent me several days ago who do you want to just play it essentially a clip here that starts at the funny part uh good times this is cash petal test of hang before congress today i don't know that if you was expecting to answer these questions uh these are not questions that have ever been asked in front of congress you need to hear the very first words that of john caddy's mouth is exchanged with cash petal is very funny and john caddy you know not it's not a lefty so whatever this was yeah it was not because it was like you know a democrat looking for some sort of moment you got to hear the first words clearly what about the b-stie out same thing because the regs wrote it up in a fashion before i arrived that address prostitution b-stiality and trafficking they were there before i got there they got to tell me what it said before it automatically disqualified any individual who participated on either side of it obviously we are never going to start

50:16i'm sorry it's not either another news we're introducing our new dog federal agents or something i don't we got to approve yeah like we we we got to open up to canines like they think you found a rule that a dog can't be a part of the FBI and now we're repealing it both sides do you hear yourself yeah i hope he was talking about the prostitution thing but still oh man i really don't even know what he meant but i'll point out also the prostitution thing is about paying for not doing sex work so they're still going to exclude people for having done sex work they're just going to let people in that paid for it oh that's probably what his sexist ass had in mind hey before not only were we keeping out yeah prostitutes what's fine yeah but we were keeping out people who are paying for prostitutes and so yeah we got that that must be chairdly what he was thinking but uh i we get i got to hear more of this i was stopping there's more but i got to tell you one of the things this is all by memo he's going to make it sound like it's regulation but this is all stuff that's internal memo so they can just decide to

51:18hire everything and do it they're also going to let people who have stolen from their employers they're going to open that up too because why not wow generally speaking i'm in favoring not punishing people for criminal records but we were talking about the federal Bureau of investigation here folks yeah i don't know there's a little weird a little bit they're just hurting for real people yes they lost 1,329 people i believe since trump came in that's a lot of agents look the animal f***ers are the only ones who will come back to work apparently i mean oh also i'm sorry i also don't like god oh what was funny they're also going to open up for animal cruelty not just peace sure that's i mean it's sort of the same thing but yeah but yeah the policy becomes f*** those animals obviously yeah but as long as they're letting both sides that so any animals who've been hurt you know they they should go to job at the FBI actually support that he's about to address the both sides thing in a minute but they they kind of slip by them for a moment oh god this is good i got to hear that again so i'm not the whole thing i want to hear the whole thing what about the bstl what about the bstl same thing because the regs wrote it up in a fashion before i arrived that addressed prostitution bstlity and trafficking

52:22they were there before i got there they don't tell me what it said before it automatically disqualified any individual who participated on either side obviously we're never going to hire the criminal decide what you stand on your desk so you just qualify the animal well i don't think we we have great canines but we're not going to this one i understand i'm trying to understand why you did this this is not directed at you mr director and i understand the game people try to make you look bad okay uh we do the same thing when when the other parties in office and all this stuff is really hurt the FBI it's really hurt the FBI all the animal f***er so i'm trying to get to the bottom of this why would you why would you in light of the of the context and and what

53:23we're going through and we're having a tough time attracting agents good quality agents we all can trust because so many people we can trust in a room with our pets we think that to order to be an fba fii agent now your political point of view matters why would you even get in to bstlity why did i get in the bstlity to bstlity but a lot of these individuals i know you're not but you changed you changed but i'm trying to explain it hang on you changed the qualifications and mention bstlity if joh if joh participated in bstlity not as the animal but as not as the animal don't you think he ought to be qualified just qualified if he voluntarily did it sure but if he was trafficked into it how do you involve him to it okay and a lot of these cases when human traffickers who are some of the worst individuals on planet earth they don't just traffic you for prostitution they traffic you for degrading acts of all kind and they force you

54:27into that that's con that's some of these individuals would go on to be law enforcement officers who qualified to be law enforcement i don't want to say hold on no chance that's the edge case you're talking about no you wouldn't consider it bstlity if that's like your force to gun point or something exactly and that what a that person would never be convicted and also i should point out no it can it doesn't really this does make it a little less funny it's it's only actually only if you're under 18 for the bstlity thing what's only if you're under 18 if the conviction if you're under 18 hold on and sign i know this is crazy but so you're saying the FBI is now allowing people who were convicted of bstlity as long as they were under 18 at the time yeah which i generally support not publishing and i'll be having me but like it's weird that he doesn't really i think that would have been cash betels first offense yeah why don't you do that this is how unprepared for a job he is that that would be a way better way to present that look i know you can find you know weird stuff to quote but like all of this is about things people did before they were 18 you know i know it's some of these words are gonna look bad but we we want to give people a chance

55:29if they were on a child and they made any sort of mistakes whatever it might be still give people a chance yeah would that be a way better thing whatever he said well right and because you don't remember of course cash betel is a q and on guy at the end of the day right like he was a conspiracy guy and i don't know how much of it he still believes or worries out on the stuff but like this is the kind of stuff that you and i people were talking about all the time that there's like massive child rings that are making people do these degrading things that honestly i would never have thought of i don't know where these people get this stuff i'm not saying it doesn't happen but he's trying to claim that there are many such cases that this has been brought to him that like people have been kept out of the FBI because of this very strange fact pattern yeah hey boss i've got i've got this friend yeah this guy i know has he had sex with the audience will who's to say hell of an agent though he would be a hell of an agent if you just give him a chance yeah i you know in a way though that's like is who's left you know like that's that does who's who remains to want to work

56:29for this administration yeah well it's funny when you think about it is the fact that the FBI is being used like it has never been used before for immigration enforcement so they're just making the misagents so that kind of explains some things too god generally as a as a person i support a whole case review of anything and and like taking somebody's circumstances into account they don't have to be trying to try to protect other different people from whatever they did before i don't support generally keeping people out of jobs for this kind of stuff but like this is weird it's just weird it's kind of striking to see the difference between the way they treat drugs right where if you had a cocaine possession charge that's still going to be an automatic disqualifier wow they only listened up weed because you know they had to if you did cocaine right you're out but if okay this is that's our priorities if you didn't get caught for the cocaine but you got caught for the animal thing yeah right which made it half at the same time one of the funniest things that James come me ever said is when he was saying he was explaining in 2014 about why they had to let in FBI agents or at least consider FBI agents who admitted to smoking a certain amount of weed before it had to be like not that much but it wasn't an automatic disqualifier and you're talking about how

57:32they're losing all these potential candidates who are tech people who would be really good tech people who smoke weed he said that some of these kids want to smoke weed on the way to the interview with the FBI which I think is very funny basically will advise don't smoke weed before your FBI like to chill out or I guess yeah or they're using they smoke so much weed that like you know with some of these super qualified hackers and other people they wanted to recruit oh oh by yeah but you know of course the norms on cannabis change the norms on best geology or however yeah I can hear John Kennedy say beast geology all day it's very funny the way he said best geology no I don't think I said that but he really spells out because he's having good time time why is he always at the center of these weird sex ones every time he really does a lot of thinking about it but in a weird way like I kind of look forward to any of his highlights now you know it's just like right it's always going to be a good time pretty much no matter what but I just don't believe this rational this seems like he's making it up on the spot like yeah I totally worry there's a little bit more if you want to play a little more oh is there a little bit more I'll take as much of this as you got Matt these changes didn't start with you did somebody came to you and recommended yeah

58:36and when you saw the beast yeah what do you look like I say this with respect to the person who recommended why didn't you just say what planet did you parachute why do why do I want to leave was my initial why do I want to leave with my chin and get in the beast reality that's my initial response senator but they then explained to me and showed me cases in which people were forced into it and had applied to the FBI what I ended there very real case very incredibly real cases yeah and there's already an appeals process if you think you've been unfairly you know denied that they don't have to do this oh boy I want looking because actually I'm just looking to see like what the standards are for FBI employment I think it's interesting I didn't realize that every FBI agent actually has to get a top-secret clearance on top of that so obviously this is a problem for clearance too but they have their own rules for this and I think one of the justifications they were trying to do is that they're going to try to match this up so they can be more like the way that they do top secret clearance where you can have some case-by-case ability rather than completely

59:39disqualifying people this is also about stuff that comes out of the paragraph in fairness and again I have to try to steal man this stuff as occasionally it does close your match what you get for the clearance and the FBI has its own broad discretion to determine its own clearance and it does its own background investigations you know makes its final decisions and there's an appeal panel if you're denied clearance we don't have this memo but for my everything I read about it it seems like it's just trying to match the clearance guidelines so they match up a little better but they don't have to do that either like you could still just have an initial screening process before we get to clearance just leave this part out yeah I just maybe leave it as it is yeah that's okay to say that people who abuse animals in every way possible don't get jobs at the FBI oh boy animal abuse is like a pretty serious predicate to all kinds of other violent and horrible psychopathic things like it's one of the main things of course to show where you're going in your life there you go yikes but still fun to listen to when John Kennedy talks about it yeah that was fun I thought you'd enjoy that what a bad spokesperson for just I mean yeah just imagine being that bad at your job you know you just had to say it's just for people under 18 and we're just trying to

1:00:42match the clearance guidelines moving on easy be like oh I see you know there's a lot of stuff but just the guidelines and you know whatever look over it whatever something anything you get out of that but then he comes up with this convoluted Q&N on sounding explanation yeah yeah all these people were forced like he said there's no chance that that person hypothetically would be convicted of something no what series of events would have to happen that a an actual victim would go to a jury trial and that's what alone be charged yeah these things do happen they're very rare I presume maybe they do even happen in trafficking scenarios I I don't know I hope not it's rare enough that people are charged with this offense at all in 2026 yeah oh boy that's the FBI right now everybody yep here we are America's premier law enforcement agency it's a best and brightest protecting us from the very people they're hiring I guess well then deploying the to be ICE agents too yeah yeah well that is it's a but brought a smile to my face that is really funny I know a good times that guy I mean what is he going for a bit like like candy he just wants just every weird

1:01:45sex thing that ever comes up in Congress he wants to be the center of it yeah you know that guy's a freak there's something going on something something's happening I don't know what he's right on this one so good for him yeah yes to his credit I'm not think is wrong not run point it out just just you know it's it's interesting all right Matt well that was a lot of fun thanks so much for listening everybody thanks Matt for the breakdown and we're recording that a lot of movies coyote v acne coming up so make sure to you know the patreon for that oh yeah and as well as that book club of course and we'll see you on Monday all right good times thanks this has been opening arguments produced by Thomas and Lydia Smith with editing help from Peter Baird the intro is by Thomas Smith the south row is by Matt Cameron support the show at patreon.com slash law contact us through patreon or open arguments at gmail.com make sure to follow our blue at open arms but most of all please share the show thanks for listening

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