JEFF CURRAN Talks Escaping Abuse By Finding MMA, Training His Sons & Challenges of Running A School

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1:00Learn more at Kia.com or visit your Southern California Kia dealer. When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want, like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha-chings from every channel, right in one spot, and turn real-time reporting into big-time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have Exama. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let Exama take over when you can talk to your doctor about Epglis? Epglis, lubricism app LBKZ, a 250-mg per 2-ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older, who weigh at least 88 lbs or 40 kg with moderate to severe Exama. Also called a topic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin,

2:02or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies, Epglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to Epglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. I-problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have newer, worsening I-problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lili. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about Epglis and visit Epglis.com, or call 1-800-LiliRX or 1-800-545-5979. Welcome to the show. That's how we start. Hey, today I'm here with my, uh, a little old friend of... Shit, man. 2000. When did we fight? 2002, Jeff. Two or three. It's a long time. I'm over over 20 years. The great Jeff Karrin, Jedi Jeff Karrin. What's up, bro? I don't even know where that nickname came from because I haven't passed yet.

3:05Who made that, of course, yeah. Wait, you're a black belt? No, I know. Oh, you scared the shit out of me. Not a Jedi. I do. Well, this is what I do. I've been a black belt older than I've been alive now. It feels like... When did you get your black belt? I got my black belt shortly before fighting you. Oh, shit. Yeah, man. You put it to use. Yeah, it's crafty down there. We're going to talk about the fight. And just so you know, I call... You know what? I'll be calling you that and all texts and everything. My black belts? I call them my Jedi's. I got... I'm talking about... I'm an old school Star Wars fan. Are you a fan of any of this? I'm a fan of it. I'm not... I'm not as geeked out on it as you are bit. Oh, well. You know what I'm saying? But I love it, dude. I love all the Star Wars. I think in the more recent years it changed on me a little bit, but grew up on it. Changed on all of us, Jeff. I know. Did you ever see the acuillight? No.

4:05Don't. Don't. You would think a planet full of lesbians would be a good thing, but it's not. Not in space. Not in this... You were saying it. It's a fucking circus. But yeah, man. It's a geeking out. Listen, that's the name of this podcast. Geeking out with Matt, sir. I'm into all that shit. Do you like those kind of movies? You like sci-fi? You kind of make you like... Dude, I like most movies. I don't have a particular genre of movies and stuff like that. I'm probably a little more particular about music, but with movies just as long as it's a good story to you and it gets you there. I'm good. As a kid, did you have any certain shows you watched or anything that you... Everybody, at different generations, have different shows. They watched as a kid and sometimes... I mean, forksnager, Forksnager, Stallone, action movies were my thing. I was big into like Army movies.

5:06I was big into like... Remember American Ninja? Yes. Oh, dude. That's with something duko, Michael Duko. Michael Duko. Oh, I was close. I remember those movies. Those kind of movies, dude. And like, they were good, man. Like, they were so good. Did you ever try to rewatch them? I've rewatched a few things in this past year. Now with all the streaming and the shit coming out that you start watching it and you're going... What did I like about this movie? But also I go, Kids, you come here. You got to watch it. Boy, come on. They're like, Dad, I don't get it. I'm like, no, you got to watch it. Like, this is a classic and they're like, no, Dad, it's such bad effects. You know, so I can't even keep them in the room. It's funny. It's hard to... Then I can... You know what? It's... Some of them can't hold up some. But Indiana Jones, I don't know. The bold is not the best of the effect, but God damn it. And that was a good movie. Actually, when I watched Raiders of the Lost Ark as it, my cousin's house, when I was a little kid,

6:10and they weren't allowed to watch like, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and I was watching a movie, and the mom... My aunt, their mom came down and she's like, no, when she shut it off and the face was melting. Yeah, yeah. The Lost Ark, right? And it was like, what are you talking about? Like, we watch this stuff all the time in my house, and I don't know if that was right. I remember my father took me to the theater for that, you know? And I was of that age. I mean, that must have came out 84 or something, 85. I don't know. I must have been around 11, 12, 12, eight, five. I'm 52 now, bro. How old are you? I just turned 49 a few days ago. Oh, it's right there. You might as well just say you're 50. Yeah, I'm facing down 50. It sounds... I'll tell you right now, for me, a guy who just spent the first 10 minutes of this interview talking about whatever it's comic books and sci-fi stuff, 52 sounds strange.

7:11Yeah. But, you know, I'm starting to feel like a grown-up. Jeff, you have kids too. No, you're a family, man. Yeah, dude. I got two boys and I have one of them is a sophomore in college and the other one is a senior in high school and they're both blue belts under me, you know? They both train and they're both very different, but very much the same. And they're just... I don't know. They're just awesome little kids, man. And they're way bigger than me, by the way. They're like five inches taller than me and they wear like size 11 shoes. I'm so very... What's their ages? Jacob is about to be 18 in December and the tie, the older one, he's a heel-turned-twenty in March. That's why... Yeah, my oldest is the teen. What's that? They're basically like, what do they call them? Irish twins. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They got to close the listen. Big turn around. That's good.

8:11You get them out of diapers around the same time. You know what I mean? You get all that done with... My kids are two years apart. I got 17, 15, and 13. So the oldest one is driving now and she's teaching at my school. She does the kids class. She's competed a bunch. It's a lot. My life teaches at my school. It's a trip. It's a trip. It's a trip. Let's bring it back and then we'll get into what we're doing now. Because we made it through, Jeff. Congratulations. You're doing great. I love seeing guys who came up when we came up and you know, they're doing well for themselves. Yeah. Because some guys, you know, now the sports, it was such a young sport that, you know, we're that almost like that second generation where like, you know, we still are some of the pioneers of the sport. And some guys didn't make it through, right? You know what I mean? You thought that now it's long enough where you see casualties. So I'm happy when I see guys like you yourself, you know, through Instagram and whatnot.

9:11I said, these guys are doing well. That one's doing well. And I end up on the mat. I'm still on the mat. Yeah. Still on the mat. Yeah. Still on the mat. And like, you talk about the generations and it's like, I think that our generation is the first like bridge gap between old school and the neck, not even new school, but between old school and the next generation. And then you have the next generation, whatever you want to call it, our generation. And then now you have this new school and then guys like us who are still in the mat are going, okay, now we have to adopt to these guys who, yeah, up without the, without the tribalness that we did, without the old school expectations, they're growing up in some more a different culture than we are because somewhere along the line, somebody decided to switch it up. And, you know, staying on that, like that,

10:11front line of change is important, but also going, man, don't forget why we're all here, you know. It's not forget all these motherfuckers who came and busted their ass and kicked ass to entice all of us to want to do the same thing. You know, that's why, you know, I like the kids a lot of the OGs on my show, yeah. I had Josh Barnett on recently, Dan Hardy, Eve Edwards, you know, all guys that came up and when we came up, and this is what I want to ask you, you know, in that time, it wasn't really for riches or fame because there wasn't much. It was, you know, what was it? I mean, you're a fighter. You wouldn't, I mean, I know for myself, I enjoyed, I enjoyed the fight itself and everything that was, was it the, what that led everything that was in that world, that was my world. It was just wanting the fight, learning to become a better fighter. Everything was geared for the fight.

11:12It was Jiu Jitsu, everything was geared towards a fight, a real fight. You know what I mean? I don't know. So, you know, when you were young, when did you first find out about Mixed Martial Arts? Well, I found out about, I was trading in like a local karate program, you know, I was pretty poor and I finally was able to like afford this like local satellite school that was in my town and I'd been to some park district things and my friend that I was training with there for about a year got kicked out and ended up fighting up this like nine o'clock class and a Wednesday night where they were doing ground fighting. And this guy there, Adam Miller, who's still today, like he's one of my black belts, he's one of my best friends. He was the, the pastor who married my wife and I or they officiated our wedding because every time I say married, he reminds he's not a Mormon. He did okay. I got to. Yeah, so, you know, and we, I go into this, I go like 14 years old,

12:14I go into this like crappy little room and like a local Hupkido school here right down the street from where I'm sitting right now. And there was guys with like geese with their sleeves cut off, they were wearing sweatpants and tank tops and never, you know, that old school, Gekundo, look, that a lot of guys were doing. And just like sweatpants and I don't even know, man, you name it. And I went in and I was learning this guy, uh, done a seminar I think with Hixen in Chicago or something and he'd learn some moves and he wrote them all out. So, I like next, you know, I'm choking some guy and I'm like learning Arnlox and then I left there going, there's got to be more. And I went to every, because I'm in a small town, about an hour and a half out of Chicago, out of the city. Okay. So I went to like the local magazine shops and depots and gas station, whatever, and I look for every like black belt magazine you could find Kung Fu mag and all that. And I found a little ad in there after my first class.

13:16I found an ad in there for a seminar with Wellington Megaton Diaz. And it was about two hours from my house about a month out. It's like, I'm going to go to the seminar, man. So I got to ride there with my friend. All we did for three hours was exercise and get our ass kicked. No, no, but Megaton didn't teach any moves. He just, we got it aligned and waited to get it, get tapped, waited to get tapped. Exercise, wait to get tapped. Because he didn't, he didn't have any English and come to think about it. If I was 14, he was only 25. I'm just a kid, you know, didn't, black belt, but didn't speak a lot of English. I had none at really. And he might have showed a move, but I don't remember. I just remember going, this is where it's at. So I started traveling to Arizona to train with him. I was in a flooring business. I still kind of am because of my uncle's store. But like, I grew up laying carpet since I was like five, six years old.

14:17I've been on the job. So I would work weekends, I'd make money and I'd travel to Arizona. And I would spend a lot of time with Megaton for my first few years. And then we had a weird little falling out, which, you know, just was like, not him and me both not understanding each other, I guess. I was 17 years old and Carlton Grayson Jr. had moved to Chicago. So I just like, so I started training with junior in Chicago. I believe I was the first new belt out of Carlton Grayson Jr.'s academy. Wow. And I was driving almost two hours there to drive to Chicago from my house in a 1979 van that had a broken radiator. It took a lot of stops, you know. You were doing this just for your love of Jiu-Jitsu or did you have it? Yeah. So dude, I loved it. Something about it was just like, you know, having a shitty life growing up and, you know, a lot of noise, a lot of abuse, a lot of things that just you want to escape.

15:18And Jiu-Jitsu, martial arts was that for me. Yeah. Movies was that. I grew up on pop culture, right? I grew up like this in front of the TV. Yeah. Wish I was that guy on that plane. I wish I was that guy on the boat. I wish I was that guy shooting that fucking asshole. You know, you go up kind of dreaming. And so Jiu-Jitsu was a big escape for me. And I think with Megaton, within my first few months of being out there, he's like, hey, we're going to all go to Arizona for a tournament. It's a judo tournament. So everyone's going to like try to do this throw, fall back into a sacrifice throw and then catch a minute triangle. And we were all winning with triangles. And I was like, this is so crazy. My friends were on school. So I was just traveling a lot and I fell in love with competing. And I was able to make money. And because it was my own business basically, working for myself or working for my uncles who understood where I was going with this or kind of believed in, I guess, I could take off and go whenever I had money.

16:19So I just traveled a lot and fucking met Pedro Sauer when I was 18 years old and I never look back. Now the great Pedro Sauer and I, man, what a nice guy. I met him before I met you. He did a seminar at Longos, right? The great, great Longos. And or I met him through Hanzo, but I've hung out with Pedro and he's such a, just such a, such a gentleman. And that's a true pioneer. He was having challenge match. He fought Mr. Universe as a shit. He's the big bodybuilder he fought. Mr. Utah. Mr. Utah in a, in a challenge match at his academy. I can't get a floor. Yeah, and I heard you get a floor. He was, and what I like about Pedro, he's before his time where he wasn't just trying to get hold of you. He was putting some hands on your first. So he's hitting him with some bare knuckles, boom, boom, boom. And yeah, left hook. And then using his guard versus a guy that looked like Bane.

17:21I just watched Nightfall, the new anime Batman. I did a reaction. You can watch it on my channel. But he looked like Bane fighting, not even Batman, Rob, and someone smaller. It was amazing. Yeah. So yeah, shout out to Pedro. You could probably find that on YouTube. It's all over, man. And that was a crazy thing about that fight too, is like the Gracies had issued this like, I think Cori and put out an ad that was like the Gracie challenge. If anyone beats a Gracie Black Belt, it's a hundred thousand dollars. And we'll pay you a hundred thousand dollars. Yeah. So this guy's like challenge Pedro and Pedro called Horian and Horian is like, well, you better not look. Yeah, right. You know, or you've got to switch money. We dealt with that back in the 90s a lot. If the Hensville Academy in Manhattan, especially when there's the Hensville CooCuck Academy, we'd have guys not looking for a hundred thousand dollars. But definitely want the test out your Jetsu. It was a wacky time. It was the wild east.

18:21Dude, I beat a couple guys up in my high school. And then I beat up a couple guys in my gym for the same reason. They were reading the magazines or they were just weren't believing it. And they were hearing about this stuff. And it's like, well, just come in. You know, actually, you know, you're beaten up a couple football players. And you know, a Teclan Dough Black Belt came in and my Academy and challenged me in the middle of a Silvio Baring seminar. And I didn't want to do anything, but he made me fight him. I was just a pair of knuckle and I ended up hurting him really bad and my wife. She was my girlfriend then. But I see her run out of the gym. Like, I'm not putting up with this. It's like, sorry, we got to do it. We got to do. And then we signed them up. And then, and then after that, you went ring shopping because she. You're an Alpha. She's seeing that. Don't give me wrong. She might have been mad. Come on, Jeff. Jeff, that was great. That's a superhero shit. Hey, I'll tell you what's not. I'll tell you what's beta. with your ass in front of him. But it was a bad move. And that was a purple belt. I would have been a bad move, but I was,

19:21man, it was a cool time. It was a wild time back then. It's weird to think about it now because everybody knows it works, obviously. And they know better and it's a different time. You don't get that now. You have a school, correct? Nah, I know, dude, you know, you got to kick assholes out. I just don't even entertain it. If I got somebody out here just being an asshole, there's some jerk that just doesn't understand. He had a guy hurt my son's neck like a year and a half ago. And I'm like, dude, he's like, I didn't want to lose to him. Like you fucking hurt my kid's neck. You're gonna have a bigger problem. Like doing some stupid ass move, you know. Just move on or let go of it. But so I don't know. I just have a zero tolerance these days, but back in the day, if I had something going on, I was right to them and I had no problem going, proving myself again. But nowadays, I've probably hurt my shoulder again. Yeah. You just get them out. Listen, you have your own school now.

20:22Dude, I've had it since I was 19. I've had my school 29 years. That's phenomenal. Hey, I mean, it's gone right behind you. I had mine since 2001 and then, yeah. So we basically, what's, we have, we had similar lives like that because I was living at my academy while I was in the UFC. Like you know what I mean? And then when I'm not fighting between fights, even if I got a little chubby, I'm still working on my craft. I'm still making people dangerous. I'm still keeping my sword to a wet stone. I still am now. You know what I mean? But yes, it was always, it really is living the life of a martial artist. I think, you know, when we earlier were talking kind of like that bridge gap, it's like people fled from Brazil to come here when they had some skills or talent to fight. And they, okay, there's a life for me. I can go teach jujitsu and then it's like, we kind of grow up, you know, just being in America

21:25in general have a different way of thinking. We learn the art and we go, there's a better way. I can like treat people a little differently. I can organize a little better. I can, you know, I've put like 45 people through to TV fight shows, you know, like fighting on TV cards. And at one point I had, I coached for 23 years. After COVID, I said, no more MMA for me. I'm just gonna focus on jujitsu. I'm gonna focus on my academy. I'm gonna focus on myself and not be a slave to being every weekend in someone's corner, growing them as an amateur. It's just, I loved it, but I can't do it anymore. I wasted, now I spent so much of my time with missing out on so much of my own life for a guy that gets there and then decides he doesn't wanna fight anymore. A guy that gets there and loses the big one and then blames you and goes to the other school. And it's like, I get to the point where I'm like,

22:26COVID was my shift. My shift in my mind, my way of saying, my best served for the art of jujitsu to focus on jujitsu and teach my students and to share my experiences in a way that like can maybe steer somebody a different path or whatever it might be, but man, fighting to me is not left my bones. I am and talks all the time with a few different people, mainly Anthony Pettis about having one more fight. My sorrow is thing. You said 49. Well, the conversation started at 47. He started it. He had a couple of conversations. A couple of venue changes. And I want, I don't care to fight like, the last fight in my career, I fought Rafion Stotz. Two fights after me, he was the Bellator champ. I fought a guy who was, I never fought the guy

23:26that was like, where I was. Let's fight a guy coming off of a two, a loss or two. Let's fight a guy coming off of, I was always like, nope, I want the guy who's on the 10 fight win streak. I want the guy who's undefeated. And that was what built me, but it's also what kind of in the end, you know, took it out of me because you're going, you know, you could have five great fights in a row, four great fights in a row, but if their loss is, nobody gives a shit, the result is what matters. Yeah, and for the time is undefeated with that shit. Yeah. You're not on TNT now or anything? I started doing TRT about six years after I retired from fighting and it took me a few years to decide to do it. The thing is, you know, if I was taking that when I was in my, if I was taking testosterone, when I was in my like motivated prime,

24:27I would have a different result than what I have right now. Oh, that's funny. You know what I'm saying? It's not like I'm getting up and chasing it down, you know? Yeah. It's just getting me by. It's getting you by? Are you staying, you're moving though? How do you feel? Yeah, yeah. Man, I teach every day. I teach every day. Probably teach five, six classes a week. I teach usually up until about a month and a half ago. I would probably grapple four or five days a week. And more when I travel because I want to, I see guys only a couple of times a year and I want to roll with those guys, but I have a really bad like bone on bone grind and my shoulder. Oh, man, dude. It's so, it's right is, bro. It's arthritis and it's, you don't want to say the A word. Makes us feel like arthritis and there's no labor from left and so I got a treatment plan. We're kind of working on stem cells and exosomes. I'm going to be going out to this company that's going to be trying to take care of me.

25:28But man, it's just every time I train, I'm set back for days. Oh, man. Shout out to bio accelerator. Bio accelerator. They hook me up, man. I go to Columbia. I get stem cells. I go, I'm like fucking weapon X out there. Wolverine. I'm going to be up with IV. I'm getting the stem cells. That's great. I got abs now. I'm walking around in shape. Thank goodness. For the first time. I can be better. I can be better. But I'm in pretty good shape. I don't. I went to the gym today and lifted. I'm going to roll tomorrow and Saturday. I got a couple guys competing next week in my invetational. I just have to be a little bit like, you know how it is, man. Everyone wants to kill you every role. So you got to be selective, man. You have a lot in the prove, dude. You fought in the world stage, man. You fought overseas. Did you fight in Japan first before you got in the UFC? You fought in Japan, correct?

26:28Yes. Oh, I know. Yeah. All right. I'm not insane. I'm trying to tell me. I think so. I would have to check my, I don't remember, man. It's been so long. But here's what I do remember. I fought Kidiama Moto in Super Bra. And he stood. Yeah, when he was Kidiama Moto, like he fucking, I had like two broken orbitals in my nose. I think I won the third round by two of the three judges. But round one and two, man, all three judges to him. He pretty much beat me up. I got caught early with some hard shots on the ground. And he was pinning me under the bottom rope. And it was what I expected from him. But yeah, I also didn't expect it. Like I expected it to be hard, but not like that from a little dude. But I remember walking down like Waikiki Boulevard. And the next day, I think, I don't know if it's the next day,

27:32but I maybe this is the day before. And we ran me in Montequex. I managed her. We ran into, and my coach, we ran into, Dana White and Phil Barone. And a few other people. We just happened to pass. And we were talking to them. And then like, Monte says to me, like, yeah, he's out here scoping out two fights. One of them was like the main event I think, and the other one was me and kid. And my heart was like, why are you telling me this now? Like, I got in my head a lot with some stuff about some other things. And I lost the fight and it was really rough on me. But at the time when I fought you, I fought you and him, I might have fought you first, man. Dude, you remember getting the call for the UFC?

28:34The fight? Yeah, I got a call from my manager going, hey, do you got anybody at 155 to fight in the UFC against Matt Sarah? I'm like, me? And he's like, well, you got a fight coming up at 145. I'm like, yeah, in a month in Chicago where I fight all the time. Like, this is what let me call Joe Silva and ask. And then he called me back like five minutes later, he's just like, you're in. I'm like, what? Dude, I was like, it's time to talk. And what's fucked up about it is the last person I wanted to fight in UFC was a jujitsu black belt. You know what I'm saying? Like, I wanted to, I was still in that mindset of like, and I'm still kind of there. Like, that's what sports jujitsu is. It's excites me, but sometimes I kind of like lose my interest in competing personally because I was always about that early stage with us was like,

29:35we are representing jujitsu. And we wanted jujitsu to beat everybody else. Yeah. And then it's like, well, with this match, jujitsu wins, regardless. And that's kind of how I approached my fight with you and other black belts is like, you are the first huge name I ever fought. And I remember thinking to myself, like, at first, it was like, just survive them. And then I was like, okay, well, I hope I can survive them. I don't know. And then as the fight went on, I'm like, I had so much belief in jujitsu after our fight. One, offensively, because of your performance made me feel, okay, if that dude can control me like that. And I was like in the top 10 at 145 at that point. Like, I had made my name and I was growing. If he can control me like that, I believe in jujitsu.

30:35Then I also went, but if I can survive a guy like that, I got to open my jujitsu, you know? Like so I was on both sides very reinforced. That I'm in the right place because, had you been a kickboxer, I would have been fine. Had you just been a wrestler without jujitsu? I would have, you know what I'm saying? I put you in it differently. So it was, and it was really cool to, you know, I was a big fan of yours, man. And I really, I knew of your credentials and I had watched all your fights prior to even getting the opportunity to fight you. So to actually fight you was surreal to me, but also my mindset as a fighter was like, don't let that get to you. You gotta go, like this is where moments are made. And ironically, losing to you, I still have so many students that came to me going, man, I watched you fight on VHS against Matt Sarah.

31:37And I saw you were in Tristolakes, so I came to you and they became my student. So like it built such a big part of my life, just fighting and you know, losing to you on the UFC. Yeah, but I'll tell you, you're jujitsu. You came out on Skaiv, you were good. And I was trying to pound you, I was trying to beat you up. It was a, I didn't get bloody. And that's where I said defensively, I believed in my jujitsu and you know, Pedro always preached like how to prevent punches. And I owned that stuff. And even when I grappled with just other grapplers, I never thought like, I always thought about how vulnerable I could be if he was trying to hit me, because we got hit for a living. So you think about that stuff, you know? 100%. And it was with you, with me, when I got to fight you, I got dropped after my fight with Dean Thomas from the UFC. I got let go. And a lot of people didn't know that. And then I just went back to my school and then I had something fall through in Japan and then I was just, I was just teaching.

32:39And then I got to call the fight Genki Sudo. Remember the great Genki Sudo? Yeah, yeah. And that fell through for some reason. Then it was gonna be, it went through, then it was gonna be Ivan Mejavall. And if I fought, I fought after you. And then it was, then it went through like 11, 12 people. It was crazy. Up until this podcast is supported by your Southern California key of dealers. Living in Southern California, your SUV needs to do a little bit of everything. From the daily commute to weekends at the beach, road trips to Palm Springs and family adventures in Big Bear. That's why having the right SUV matters. Kia has an SUV built to fit just about every lifestyle, with traditional gas, hybrid, and all electric models. Across the lineup, you'll find sophisticated design, rugged capability, generous cargo space, available seating for up to seven, and on select models, driving range of more than 600 miles. One model that really stands out is the all new 2027 Kia Celto's. It's a small SUV with big SUV capability,

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34:42to festive accents for every room in the house, Wayfair has what you need to make Halloween feel like magic all in one place. Because the best Halloween memories aren't made in just one night, they're made all season long. Shop Halloween decor now at Wayfair.com. Wayfair every style every home. Two weeks before the fight, you got this on two weeks notice. Right? How many notice? Like two weeks. I got the call on day nine. Okay. And it was at the end of the night. So I had eight days and I'm trying, like basically had seven days. So listen, that's obviously a feat in itself that compete like that. And for me, it was the unknown. I'm like, oh, he's a patron story of black belt. I'm like, oh, shit, man, I love Pedro. That's the one thing I thought. And then I'm like, I said, you did too. I didn't know too much because you said you said to me in the cage and you said to me in Pedro after the fight, you said something like, you know, I it felt like your guard or something like that. I that is something about my guard in Pedro.

35:43You gave him a little credit. I love Pedro. He's like, he's a guy to like, and I always thought about that when you see quick replacements, like, I'm thinking like, I knew he's trained for someone else too. He's no different. And it'd be different if I was sitting in my ass, but I was prime. I had a fight coming up. Like I actually feel better. I was a few. I was three or four weeks from like a local. Now, it wasn't local, but it was a pretty big fight, like a shoot-o sanctioned fight. And I was fighting in these shows. And I was a champion of this organization. And it's like, guys, you're gonna have to wait. I'm gonna have to do this. And I was, so I was, man, I was in shape. The only difference was I was a little lighter. So the day of lands, I went to the Bellagio and I picked out. That's a star. And I got really filled out. What is that? That's so funny. When I say my height, but I'm a heavier guy, I 155 was my way class. They asked me, after you might fight with you, and then I even measured var, I beat Ivan.

36:45And then they asked me to go up to fight Cairo. And then I lost and got on the ultimate fighter at Wellthaway. It worked out for me. We got the skill set just like yourself. You fought at 145. And we got the skill set with Arjud Jitsu that we can fight up. You can't say that for a lot of the guys. But my first five years, I was probably fighting 55. Ivan Fodd is heavy as 185. Oh, he's always fighting. I bet. I thought you were a lot lighter. No, but I was fighting because that, like I would walk into a, you know, you remember Dave Strasser, right? He thought Wisconsin guy, he fought in the UFC a little bit. Dave is like an OG too. And we'd be in the locker room at his show. And be like, oh, hey, Jeff, you want to fight this guy? I think he's weighing in like 185. I'm like, what are you weigh? I'm like 155 now. I mean, but I weighed in earlier like 145. What year were 155 now, right? Like so what are you weigh? Like it was like that. It's just matchups.

37:46But so I never really cut weight to like, I never really wanted to be smaller. But once I found out that there was some more opportunities like overseas if I lean up and stuff like that, it's like, okay, I'm going to take everything serious. And next thing you know, I was walking around it 45. And it was eat. It was 45.50. And but because I was still fighting 55 or 45 in the wake, it was easy. You know, I let my diet go. And it was never really a bodybuilding contest for me, you know? And I hear you, man. I'm just, I was always like, you know, listen, man, this giant set fucking 170. You know, that would have played into my underdog persona. You know, but, you know, but 155 was my class. Now it wasn't easy to get down to that. I was like, fucking gollum. I think nowadays with the PI and all the, it'd be easier to make that cut. There's so much science and things that we've got. Oh, you know, we're just like,

38:47we were binge, we are binge eaters and binge wake cutters. Like, oh, yeah. Oh, we got two weeks to eat and drink what we want. And then you got to get back in the, you know, back on the horse a little bit, but oh, I'm not fighting for three months. So I got a couple more weeks I can taper off. It's like you eat like shit, you drink, you know? And then you go, fuck, this is easy. That hurt me for a while, man, because we live that. It's almost like a rock and roll lifestyle in a sense. Not that you have the rock and roll money, but you got the travel, you got your assignment, who to fight. So half the year you're training. So then not the other half, but like in between that, you can get a little chubby because you know you started up, you're going to burn it all off. So when I got done fighting, I'm like, I became a bit of a fatty. Oh my god, I look. I got a start the day teaching a class. I got a fucking, and now I'm back, you know, little TOT, got some stem cells, got rid of it. You get, you learn, you learn what's best for you, but like, and then the early days for lighter weights,

39:47like there was nothing in the, remember, like after you, after you fought Menjivar was the last card they had 155 in the UFC. For a while, they were getting rid of it. They cut it. It was out. They did cut it. They did. And you went up and you knocked out GSP, and that was fucking an amazing moment. And, but 155 went down to WEC, and I was fighting, I was signed with pride. So, and I had one fight in pride, then UFC bought pride, expunged it, and then brought the contracts over that were, they wanted to keep over to WEC. So I got put in the WEC. Hey, we were talking before about living the martial life. I would part of my research, this is my research. I put your name in YouTube, but I see what you're up to lately. And I go, oh, Jeff Karrin, martial life on YouTube. What is that? Is that old new talk to me? Now we got that, and I wanted to hear you explain that.

40:50It's new. It's about a year old, maybe a year now. I'm on, we just released today episode seven. And we're just, it's just following me through my travels. And whenever I travel to teach, or if I'm, whatever I got going on, the majority of the time, I have my guys with me, and they're a great little duo of crew, and they film, and whatever storyline comes out of the week, or the trip, sometimes I'm on like a two week tour, traveling around doing seminars, and we break it down into multiple episodes. I try to sit down kind of like a podcast like we are, but I sit down and I have a conversation or an interview with somebody that is on the trip that really interests me, whether it's one of the athletes on my invitational that I cross their lines with, or like Pedro Sauer, or you know, one of my friends, somebody and I find their story and how it relates to people, whether they're a competitor or just a student.

41:54Maybe they were on a weight loss journey, maybe they come off a big win or a big loss. So I have so much stuff in the pipeline for this documentary, and it's been a lot of fun. It's just we're trying to figure out like an hour long, 30 minutes long, two hours long. Different episodes are getting different types of views, but it's been a lot of fun, and at the end of the day, I remember a few years ago, Pedro telling me, like, man, you should sort of film me as much as you can because you're gonna regret it, you know? Like you're gonna look back at moments, and I'm like, man, if I got the ability to do it, let's film it. And you know, it's been cool. And the original concept for martial life was to do like a UFC embedded for my invitational, which I have next week is my fourth one, a whole new four bucks. My, I was gonna do chase, see I revealed, and I thought, okay, I'm gonna do little short stories

42:54on my athletes, but the first show got done with the Ned 27 fights. So I had however many athletes, it's like 54 people. I'm going, oh, God, I'll log jam quick here, trying to tell people about a dozen of these guys. Like I can't do it. So it kind of became that thing where like, obviously if I cross the paths in my travels with one of the people that competed in my organization, then I talk about their match, and I could highlight them and talk about them, but it's just my normal life. And what I'm, what I'm up to, you know, trying to keep it interesting and exciting for myself. I got my academy here that's super solid. I've got about 354, 400 members. We've been here almost 30 years, you know, since I was a blue belt, I started this little school. Thanks to coach. What's your school called? My school's just team current or current jujitsu academy, but it's, you know, I was 18 years old,

43:54and I was gonna move out to Utah to train with Pedro, and I was gonna be my life, and I was gonna live there, and he had an apartment above his garage, I could stand. Yeah. But you know, a few months before meeting Pedro, my dad died, and so I kind of wanted out, but then when I realized that was gonna mean leaving my little sister and my mom behind, I was kind of like, and they were struggling, and my mom was struggling bad. I was like, man, I'm not gonna leave. So I just kept my roots here, and he said, don't worry about it. You know, I'm gonna vouch for you. You put down some math, and you put up a sign, and if anyone has any questions, they can call me. So I just started teaching basic jujitsu to people, and put out flyers around town, and I still have a good amount of people who started with me 29 years ago, bro. Like, that's beautiful. Some of my best friends, and they just support it, and they believe, I mean, I went through a lot of changes myself, like I changed this name in my school five times, I changed the location 10 times, I fucked everything up a million times, but I'm still here, you know.

44:56Oh, well, it's like, you know, when Thor's home planet, Asgard was getting blown up, and Asgard is where the people are, it's not the place. Right. That might be the worst analogy ever. You're probably looking at me like I'm a moron, but it's from a movie. Do you ever see Thor Ragnanok? Oh yeah. Oh shit, yeah. Come on, man. If I'm quote, God and thunder, that piece of shit, then you could just get off this podcast right now, but Ragnanok was great. Hey, tell me about this invitation that you have, and it's probably gonna be happening the week this is, but tell me about your Jeff Kerr and invitation. Well, yeah, yeah, so, I don't know, man, I had this idea to, like, I always say this first, like fight to win, ebi, ADCC, the Craig Jones came in, went, I'm sure they'll be back. Who's number, there's so many cool organizations doing their thing.

45:57But they're highlighting the famous guy. They're highlighting the big name. They're highlighting the guy, they're selling who can win this big amount of money. I just wanna be something consistent for the athlete. That, you know, three, four times a year, they can show up. If they have a bad performance, they're still gonna get a call back. No one's gonna have to pay. They're gonna all make a little bit of money, you know, and it's gonna be a place where they can, and my champions, like, that I'm building their, I'm not just bringing in people. I'm building the contenders, and I'm just trying to make this like, it's not local. I got people from all over the country. I got a guy coming in from Japan to fight my band-to-weight champion. And it's, you just said, the rules said, brother, tell me. Rules said is submission only in regulation. All submissions are legal. There's no slamming out of submissions.

46:58I don't want broken necks. I don't like that shit, you know, in MMA, you better know how to do it. But no one's getting paid that kind of money in Jiu-Jitsu. And, you know, I want the phenom blue belt to have a shot at a black belt. If I feel he's got the opportunity to do it, and they want to do it. It's all no-gui right now. So, the rules said is submission only. And then the overtime, after regulation, the ref flips the coin. Depending on who wins the coin toss, they got a quickly picked top-bottom or neutral. And the fight goes live from there for three minutes, five minutes for title fights. And then it goes to three judging criteria, like a 10-9-8. Our 10 point must system. And man, we have like an 85% submission rate. And it's been going really good. So if I choose top, that means I'm in your guard, hands in your biceps, you know, knees on the floor, go. And then it comes down to criteria is aggressiveness to finish.

48:00Or pens. Or pens. Submission attempts, things like that. And if you're stalling, you get, and it can kind of work against you. Like a negative, you know, there's no points. Nothing, but. OK, how many of these you've done? I've done three. All right. And you're learning with each one? I mean, it's going to be a lot of sounds. I'm learning with each one. I came up with a little bit of a judging criteria, a switch that we're going to probably change for next. Not even judging, just scoring. What we notice with like a 32-foot stage is that the referee has the best view. And I've had the same four reps. And they're all in this sport. They're all in jiu-jitsu. They're all rough. And I've had the same four. The whole, all three shows. They're all from different places. And what we realize with it is like, if you're going to judge it for by the three judges that are out, the three reps that are not roughing, they become judges. And they rotate.

49:01And they figure that out ahead of time. There's a little discrepancy. But what we notice is that the referee has the best view. So sometimes the referee, the few discrepancy we had, was like the ref like man, he didn't understand his face. He was grimacing. He was in a submission. You just couldn't see it from 32 feet away, from across the mat. So my switch that I'm going to probably make going into next week, as long as all the reps agree with me, and going into the next show is the referee will have a two-point judging criteria. The other three will have one. So it becomes, instead of three on the outside, you got one on the inside who can outweigh two people. Because they've got a better view. He's got the closest to the action. He's the one watching. He's the one that gets the angle, looks at the face. He's the hand. Because when the mat's like this, you know, and you're sitting there and the mat's here, and you're a judge, and you're basically just watching.

50:01There's a lot you can't see. And then you look at the big screen, you look at the LED, and you're like, oh, okay, I can't tell. So they get a good view who's trying, you know, but the ref really sees it. Well, people can be able to watch this through, it's live and free on YouTube, around the world, man. We've, our first one had about 10,000 live views. We're up to about 15. What's the date? When does this come out? When is it next week? September 19th. On my evening. September 19th? Yeah. And we vow, let's put a note to get this out next week, please. September 19th. My engineer's on it. My engineer's on it. This is coming out next week. And we'll fucking promote this thing. I got 23-matchers. I'm just, yeah, dude. And man, it's fun, because like, I, there's some stuff that are like, we live stream it, you know, kind of from the start, but like, I get to get up in front of the crowd and thank everybody. And hey, it's a family-friendly event. Have fun, cheer on, but like, remember, there might be a kid next to you. Like, let's keep martial arts, martial arts,

51:03and like, let's kick some ass kind of thing. And there's been no hype. I've been trying to tell everyone's story along the way. I got a local black belt who was a fighter, Christian Renoso, who's got a podcast of his own called Renoso No, so he's got a cool little thing going. But he's also like, really, really good commentator. And he's doing a lot of shows. Ray Flores, who's done Mayweather fights, he's done NFL, he's done Triller, he's done one FC. He's my announcer. I've got Jessica Panay's another commentator. She, you know, you know, you know, it was the full-mine FC fighter, Jessica Panay. And everyone's been there since the very first show. So I got a whole crew of people, and we're just, we're building something cool, man. And it's a great show, all the lights and the production. And it's fun. So, hey, you should have Jessica Panay and her friend, what's her name? Angela? Angela? Fight? I think she'd do some funny videos for you

52:05to promote your thing, like kind of like how Nina drama does her thing. Because those girls are funny. That girl, Jessica Panay's a funny girl. And I know what, they do some funny things on Instagram. Stuff like that helps get eyes, you know? Jessica and Christian, and then for, we do a pre-show, an hour before the live stream, we stream the pre-show first. And Jessica and Christian talk about the matchups. And they are, like every, you know, if you go to like, let's say, ABC BJJ show, and you watch a big show, it's like, oh, that was great. Then you go to the next one of that. It's a bunch of new people. Yeah. Has at least 50% repeats. And by the time now I'm going to my first, my fourth show, there's only 18 people on this card who haven't been on any one of my shows. Everyone else has been on one of their last three. So I'm recycling and I'm cultivating.

53:05I'm giving people an opportunity to grow. Some of them I'm actually giving some coaching advice, not move wise, but, you know, career wise. Like, I think there's a big problem with grapplers that are just fighting every damn weekend against their friends, not their friends, people. Oh, and they're just, there's no secret, man. There's no time. I'll tell you, can I just add with your rule set, what I like is in the overtime, you're not starting in armlock position or the back. And I'm not shitting on EBI or anything, but that rule set, they interviewed Hicks and Gracie on Joe Rogan one time. I think Eddie Bravo was on there with him. And they were talking about the rule set. And Hicksin said one thing that was pretty brilliant. And he's like, about the overtime, he's like, but they didn't earn that position. Like in other words, you could go with that, it doesn't show who's the better grappler by far because if you have a good defense and you are just money after submitting an on bar or money at re-enacted choke, but if you,

54:06if you know you're never gonna go with that guy, if you roll with that guy, you're never gonna get remotely close to his arm or back. Are you the better grappler? Like, you know what I mean? It's, I understand it's a game, but I didn't like that about it, because I don't think the better guy is gonna could win at all, like, you know. But this, I agree with you. I agree with you. I agree with you. I agree with you. I agree with you. The most thing Hicksin says, you know, as we do, but, you know, it's not one to challenge, but, you know, and I, like, as a fan, I get really excited about EBI. And it's like, and the overtime are fun and all that stuff. I just, my original criteria was actually very complex. I had a scoring system that was negative based. You didn't score points for advancing. You got negative points for stalling, you got negative points for evading the mat to get out of the submission. And the negative points could lose you the match. But I got away from that. Just a quick little story, like my head, like,

55:09technical referee, Mark Vivas is like, one of the number one seeds in the master, through your master four Black Belt Division across the world, he's competed in every month for the last five, six years or more. He's so decorated and he's a local guy. We've never, we trained together one time in about two years ago. Other than that, we've only been slated to compete against each other. And I said, Mark, you're the most active jujitsu Black Belt I know. Will you please be like my head referee and help me with this rule set? And I brought him in and you're, he's not attached to my team in any way, but we respect each other. And I said, what do you think? He goes, I think we need a system that is harder, is hard as possible for the smart guy in the back room to hooliate and figure out a way to like, you know, challenge the system. So one thing we, we tried to nip in the butt early on is like, as it is the toinkoss for position is 50-50, right?

56:12You want a chance to at least go, man, I can't pass this guy's guard, but I felt good when I was on my back. I'm going to put him in my guard and see what happens because I can attack this and attack that and I'll get credit for it. But we, I said, okay, so what do you think? Well, I think like maybe we have to take your concept of stalling and this and that and penalize them. I said, okay, let's penalize them by not giving them, if the ref warns you two, three times to be active in work or you're going to, then you, if you don't and they feel like you didn't work, they can give the coin toss right to your opponent and they're not without even flipping it. It's the ref's discretion. So the ref can say, I warned him, hey, I've had a couple of these, I warned you, how many times, three, four times? You're right, yeah, but still, you know, I was working yet we get it, but it was, you got to work. You can't just hold on and write it out because you're in half guard on top. You got to work to pass, you got to try to submit

57:13or I go, hey, advance your position. If you're not trying, your opponent's going to get the choice. Then the opponent can go, and I don't like being in the bottom of that guy. I know I can take him down so I'll stand up and then the ref's, the judges know also that pulling guard without contacting without an aggressive move, it could be like right away is a negative to them. They're going, okay, they pulled guard, they're not trying to take the guy down. He's avoiding the choice of their opponent. So there's a whole weird, that weird, but simple, complex scoring system. It sounds like the method to your madness. I like, hey, listen, this could bring me back because a lot of times, I don't watch a lot of the grappling stuff. A lot of times it's just two guys into locking legs and just like, I like, I watch my, my jujitsu in the UFC, but don't get me wrong. I'm going to check out the Jeff Kern invitation. I like, it sounds like you got a, it sounds like a fresh take on this beautiful lot that we do.

58:15It is beautiful and I'm trying, you know, and you want it, if you want jujitsu to be a spectator sport, why is judo and sombo and wrestling and every other grappling martial art in the world, not on a big stage because there's a strategy to winning and winning is more important than being in, like being exciting to the fan. So I don't want to damage jujitsu, but the jujitsu style that comes out of the style, the rule set that gets you the win in my show is effective for fighting. It's going for this, getting after it. It's like Marcelo Garcia compared to a guy who's just winning by advantage points. Marcelo kind of styles just going for the kill from the start, you know, and that's what's going to get the reward. Although in overall and life, like we know with no time limit style fights from the old days,

59:18we know like you can weight it out and whether the storm, but how many street fights last three hours and 45 minutes? You're lucky if you last, you're not listening. You got to put a time restrain, man. You can't have people. That would be the disaster too. Hey, it sounds, it sounds fucking cool. I'm going to be checking it out. Jeff, man, what now before I let you go, dude, I'm happy you're doing well. Is there anything we've promoted the martial life on YouTube? All right, that's what it's called. Jeff Karin, the martial life, which is martial life, yeah. Martial life on YouTube, we have the Jeff Karin invitational. Dude, you got your academy team Karin, right? Yeah. You live in the dream, man, and you're self-made. And I noticed people along the way, great painter of sawyer and, you know, your family and whatnot that helped you. But you did well for yourself, buddy. I'm proud of you as a friend. Hey, and by the way, can I just say right now, it was the ref's bad. You were fine with kicking me in the face. I was standing.

1:00:19Yes? You know what I'm talking about. I know. Well, I'm such a nice guy. What do I say after that? It's okay, and I elbowed you in the face. Dude, let's just go over that really quick. Well, you remember this? Yeah, I mean, I remember in Steve Miserade, right? And he's known for being a horrible ref. They ain't not he got it. Yeah. A nice guy, but not the best ref. So in just for people at home, if they don't watch the UFC or makes much of lots, if you're standing up over your opponent, your purf- it's perfectly, perfectly okay for the person on bottom to kick you in the face. Now, any real good jujitsu player knows to do that, especially over them. And that's, you get that thing chained up. So I was looking to do a technical ground in pound. Instead of just looking to open up his guard, I was looking to beat him up a little bit, he'd open up and look to pass. And as I stood up, Jeff, beautiful up kick. I know I got a chin.

1:01:19It must be my 19 and a half inch neck that ate it. But right away, the fucking ref, don't kick, no kicking when he, dude, he, he, he chast ties you, he's yelled at you. Well, the, I'm like, I wouldn't have hit you with a second one anyways, because you're gonna turn from that and go, okay, fuck, I forgot it, you know, he can kick me in the face. But so it didn't affect the fight, but yeah, I was kinda like, wait, what? For a minute there, I think you said, sorry man, I'm like, it's okay. I went the elbow, you know, I'm fucking weird. But that was his bad. And I'm glad that kicked it and put me out. Dude, you know, one of the things about that fight though, like when I went back and watched it, because like, it wasn't like he was streaming, you could go watch it from your hotel room. It was a play-lim fight. I think it was a pre-lim. And there were, you know, I had to wait for months for that shit to be in like a blockbuster video. Me too. Or whatever. I saw the highlights, I mean, I couldn't even see it, you know, and I went and watched the fight and I was listening to Joe Rogan's,

1:02:20Joe was giving the commentary and he was like, oh, there's a difference between black belts and world champion black belts. I'm going, I get there is, but, we're like, he's just fucking elbow me in the face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not for anything, man. I set up a nice technical mount before I could get a punch off. You elbow escaping right out. There's a lot to say for you, Jiu-Jitsu, I'm not doing that fight, man, because at that time, you know, I'm not tutin' my own horn, but on the floor, like I know how dangerous I was. And when I mounted, I'm ready to set up for it, man. Oh my God, I finally got the mount. I did, I, before you could say elbow escape, you were out. So props to you and you and Jiu-Jitsu. But thank you, you were the best of the best, but I couldn't, I was never going to get out of your crossbody. No, you're funny. So, Pate had told me to let you mount. And it's getting the other side. Yeah, that had worked. Yeah, so I mean, I gotta let him mount me

1:03:20if I'm gonna get out, but I hope I don't get my ass kicked worse. Oh, man, I thought I snuck onto mount, but he was setting me up. Hey, it was good, man. We had a nice 15 minutes in the cage, and we became friends after that. And we're both living, you know, listen, we got our schools, our families. How cool? We're both chat eyes. We're both master chat eyes. There were congrats on your fights, and everybody at home watched Jeff Curry put his name into not only in YouTube, but in the UFC fight pass. You see some of his fights, you know, and that's great, man. I'm happy for you, buddy. You and I fought on UFC 46. Good, dude. That was, dude, it was 2002, bro. Yeah, kids were born that day. And they're watching us now like, what? But, hey, man, what's their living, they're still living the dream? Hey, Jedi Jeff Curry, thank you so much, bro. You got it, great, great, great. Catching up home, man. All right, my brother. Hey, and everybody at home, stay humble, yet dangerous. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪

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