It Could Happen Here Weekly 252

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3:05The good news, Bioma GLP1 booster helps you increase its natural production. So you can quiet the food noise and enjoy smoother weight management when following a healthy lifestyle. Head to bioma.health slash GLP1 and use code podcast to get 15% off. Calls are media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch. If you want, if you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. Hi, you're listening to it could happen here. My name is Carlos Barrio Spolanco, I'm a journalist and writer. I'll be your host for today's episode, which is about the ongoing campaign of budge strikes by the US military that have turned the oceans around the Americas into killing fields.

4:06To give a high level overview of what I'll be talking about today, since September 2nd, 2025, up until the time of recording, the US military has carried out at least 70 strikes on civilian vessels in the Caribbean basin in the Eastern Pacific Ocean. At least 244 people have been killed by these strikes according to reporting from the New York Times. Per air wars, there have been survivors almost every month of the campaign, but only free out of the 28 total have ever been rescued. These strikes originally started in the Caribbean following the mobilization of military assets into the region, which includes the reactivation of the once dormant Roosevelt road military base in Puerto Rico, where I live and I'm currently recording from. I'm sure that I've seen some of the aircraft used in these strikes and other military operations in the region from the hill that overlooks the base's air strip. And I've probably watched every single one of the videos the Trump administration or the US military has posted announcing that these strikes took place.

5:15You've likely at least seen one yourself. It's almost always a social media post sometimes a press release typically showing a black and white video of a go fast vessel, colloquially known as a panga or a yola, depending on where you're located. They're typically sipping across the waves only for a missile to rain down from the sky shortly after the video starts turning the boat and all the people aboard it into a giant ball of fire. Per air wars, these posts almost always follow the same formula, naming who ordered the strike. The amount of people killed, calling them drug traffickers or narcotericists, saying they're part of a quote designated terrorist organization and quote. In stating the location where the strike took place to be honest with you, even if the victims are blurred out and you rarely get an up close look at how these people are torn to shreds. These are essentially snuff films that the Trump administration has used to hype up itself and its war on so called Narco terrorism.

6:19The Trump administration has been laying the fin legal justification as well as the moral and philosophical foundation for this quote unquote war since essentially their first day in office more than two months after the first strike defense secretary Pete Hegsiff officially announced operation southern spear as the quote overarching the deal W operation to disrupt the flow of narcotics and the Western hemisphere from drug cartels that the president has named as a designated terrorist organization parentheses DTOs. Per a DOD inspector general report southern spear's mission statement as well as several documents that created the legal justification for these strikes and other related operations are classified and secret from the public. However, as this inspector general report states the aim of southern spear is to quote defend the homeland protect regional partners and interest stability and security across the Western hemisphere.

7:22Operation southern spear has since evolved into joint task force western hemisphere which essentially means that several partner countries in the hemisphere are working under Trump's banner of anti narco terrorism whatever that means. The Trump administration has repeatedly said that the people killed in these strikes are quote unquote narco traffickers and therefore enemy combatants according to a January 20th 2025 executive order that labels the groups that the dead allegedly belong to either quote unquote foreign terrorist organizations or quote unquote specially designated global terrorist two terms that sound like they're the same thing but essentially the linear groups marked by the state department and the treasury department. So the government respectively as terrorists. There is substantial doubt as to whether the Trump administration is even able to identify these people before massacring them. However, as has been evidently clear to anyone with eyes these people are not terrorists and their serious doubts as to whether they're even actually connected to drug trafficking organizations in a meaningful way.

8:32Because these strikes occur in the open ocean sometimes in international waters any evidence that could help in identifying the victims sinks beneath the waves relatively quickly making positive identification nearly impossible a list compiled by air wars identifies 26 victims by their full names. A lot of these names come from media outlets hitting the ground and interviewing people in the communities where the men who've been killed by the strikes used to live. Per the list a lot of these names come from the Los Angeles Times the Trinidad and Tobago Guardian the associated press and somewhere identified by Costa Rica for these as reported by the nation as well as a collaborative investigation project titled los bombardeados sin derecho a la defensa or the bomb no right to defense between air wars. The center latino americano the investigation period is the guy otherwise known as the clip in several other Latin American or Caribbean media outlets the air wars list includes names from the first strike up until strikes in May earlier this year.

9:40This doesn't mean that they've stopped working on it just that they haven't been able to identify anyone by their full name after that. In other cases these outlets and others across the western hemisphere have been able to find nicknames in general descriptions of these men air wars keeps a list of these in their individual trackers per strike as well. I have all these sources linked in the episode description I've tried to include English as well as some Spanish language news sources the list by air wars the Los bombardeados investigation in the killing spree report by the Washington office on Latin America or wola. We're huge sources for this piece so if you're at all interested in learning more about this topic please go read those. The evidence found by these outlets points to the killed victims being a mix of fishermen motorcycle or bus drivers in boat captains the men are mostly from some of the poorest areas of Latin America and the Caribbean and when they are connected to the drug trafficking organizations they appeared to be quote among the lowest ranked members and quote per strike.

10:44And quote per air wars among the identified there's a quote unquote local crime boss a fisherman pressured to get on drug trafficking boats because they had no other options to make money to feed their children and indoor soccer player people who left home in search of work and fishermen who appear to have been stalled at see fixing their ships motor. The majority of the men hill from Venezuela and Mexico while a few are from Colombia Ecuador turn it out into bego and Saint Lucia. The Los bombardeados investigation has been able to geolocate seven of the boat strikes free in the Pacific and foreign the Caribbean of the two in the Pacific to take place broadly near the Mexico border and one strike occurred about halfway between Mexico and Ecuador. Of the four in the Caribbean one took place in the open ocean between Venezuela and the island of las pañola another appears to have taken place broadly near the Gulf of Venezuela one took place in the Gulf of barria between Venezuela and turn it into bego and another took place along the spine of the less rentillies close to our neek in Saint Lucia.

11:52Elcapes reporting identifies other strikes including one off the coast of Costa Rica one off Ecuador Santa Cruz islands and another about halfway between Santa Cruz and Ecuador's coastline and one near Mexico's coasts. Although the strikes originally started in the Caribbean only about a ferd of these strikes have taken place here meanwhile the other two ferds have taken place in the Pacific. I'm going to talk more about the identities of these men later on as I talk about the individual strikes but before I keep going I want to take this moment to say that it does not and should not matter whether these men were simply fishermen or if they actually word drug traffickers any level of criminality whether real or perceived is not in any sense of the word. Justify the murder of defenseless people on a boat who had no way of fighting back against the missile coming from the sky as many experts on us may or time international and humanitarian law have noted these strikes on civilians because they absolutely are not combatants in the US is not at war against the groups that they pretend that these people are a part of are basically murder as Bensoll.

13:08United Nations special rapporteur on the promotion and protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms while countering terrorism wrote in a briefing note the attacks are quote in violation of the right to life being unjustified in national or personal self defense or under international humanitarian law the international law of the sea. Micotic suppression conventions or international counter terrorism law later on in that same document he wrote that there is quote reasonable ground to believe in quote that the United States strikes quote constituted crimes against humanity of murder under customary international law. Before I can talk about any both strikes I need to explain how according to the Washington Post the Trump administration has been pushing for these strikes on drug traffickers on alleged drug traffickers I should say since they took office and how they repeatedly sidestep purged fired or steamrolled any lawyers who questioned their plans.

14:23First I want to broadly talk about why the US is doing this the Trump administration essentially believes or purports to believe at least that since these alleged drug traffickers which they have not published any evidence that these people are who they say they are aka alleged drug traffickers are poisoning the US with drugs then it's fair game for the US to kill them to the US government this is quote unquote self defense however as you in special. The US is doing this in a way that is not the case in general but is the case in general. In general we have a political repertoire saw highlights in his note even if and there's a big if there. If there are actually drug traffickers this is in no way comparable to a direct military action drug trafficking in military actions could never amount to be the same thing. The trafficking is not force at all the Trump administration also ledges that these non state actors are being sent by states namely Venezuela after putting trend that I was on the FTO list the Trump administration invoked the alien enemies act to declare that

15:33I was engaged in a quote unquote invasion of the US on behalf of the Venezuelan government. It used this as pretext to send 137 Venezuelan men would seemingly no connection at all to the gang to El Salvador secot prison in March where they suffered from torture along similar lines in November 2025 the US listed the cartel de los soles as an FTO the Trump government had for a long time contended that Nicolás Maduro Venezuelan president was the leader of the cartel de los soles even though experts like those of inside crime claim it was more like a loose network of cells inside the Venezuelan armed forces also going out of timeline here. But the US government drop the accusation against Maduro that he led the cartel earlier this year during his court case in New York shortly after Trump declared several of these criminal groups FTOs. Hegs F began purging the DOD of any lawyers or commanders who would serve as quote unquote roadblocks to Trump's orders according to the Hill.

16:39A similar thing was occurring at the Justice Department, her at the New York Times. And this is like absolutely the type of thing you do when you're planning to break the law or do something evil. The top echelon of the Trump admin has done stuff like this across all avenues available to it. Imagine someone breaking a key in a door lock so that no matter how much you want to lock the door it's impossible unless you change the whole mechanism. This is what they were doing essentially. Staying on this door analogy the Trump administration essentially just made it so that the door to doing something wildly illegal and immoral could never be fully closed to them by the people who would actually stop them from opening. These strikes were originally supposed to be carried out by the CIA but lawyers at the spy agency questioned whether killing civilian drug traffickers was legal under domestic law. One person familiar with the debate told the Washington Post that quote, there is no actual threat justifying self defense and quote.

17:43This is perhaps the first time the CIA has said it didn't want to get involved in land America directly. That's a joke of course the CIA is definitely here. Just look at the two agents that died in Mexico earlier this year. The CIA is also providing the targeting assistance and intelligence necessary to conduct these strikes according to the Guardian. Per Wapo the Trump admin quickly moved on with an alternative plan to use the US military for these strikes. During the summer of 2025 the Justice Department signed a secret opinion justifying the both strikes by saying that the US was in armed conflict with quote unquote narcoteric and that using lethal force against them was okay because it protected national interest. And because they were a quote threat to the US akin to a foreign nation attempting to invade senator Mark Kelly told Wapo however this was in a capital W war so they didn't need congressional authorization instead it's a quote non international armed conflict and quote.

18:49Per a separate Wapo article the Trump admins legal justification quote does not stand up to the facts and quote to lawyers inside and outside the government while this memo was producing the summer it was not signed until September 5th of 2025 after the first both strike occurred. According to the Guardian the memo states that these groups are using the proceeds from drug trafficking to wage war which is something that the Taliban did with that experts have said these cartels designated as FTOs or DTOs are simply not doing also you have to remember that these people if they're connected to the cartels are at most low level members and their deaths while extremely gruesome have little impact on drug trafficking in the region. Per Wapo the strikes have not reduced the amount of cocaine entering the US according to a drug enforcement administration assessment also did I mention that Trump pardon the former president of Honduras who'd been sentenced to 45 years in prison in June 2024 after being convicted of importing more than 400 tons of cocaine into the US between 2004 in 2022.

20:05I'm again stepping out of timeline here what I wanted to jump ahead to illustrate how this anti drug policy is pure farce it's fake and violence seems to be the point of these both strikes for the Trump administration sorry to digress. Anyway it may 2025 Trump signed a classified directive that offer is the military to use force against a secret list of 24 DTOs. Not to be left behind hegs have followed this up with an execute order in August 2025 that contained targeting instructions that didn't require positive identification of a target instead quote unquote reasonable certainty that a person is a member of or affiliated with a DTO per the Washington post. I want to stop right here and say that under Obama the standard for drone strikes in the Middle East was quote unquote near certainty and they still struck a marriage possession in Yemen. There is serious reason to doubt the US's ability to know the certainty of any target they're planning to hit earlier this year a joint US and Ecuadorian operation on unalleged Narcoteris compound actually rated a dairy farm with no arrests but the Ecuadorian military did not have any evidence of the threat.

21:21The military did allegedly torture some folks per the New York Times. Meanwhile according to reporting in Bloomberg serious issues with the AI assisted quote unquote kill chain used by the US military led to the strike that killed at least 120 free children at a girl school in Manab Iran. United Nations investigators recently concluded that this was likely a war crime. Funnily enough the both strikes do not constitute a war crime is we're simply not at war with the cartels in a strictly international legal sense. The criteria established by the execute order to attack these ships is really unclear. Democratic Senator Tim Cain from Virginia revealed that the both strikes are being carried out using free criteria that he was not allowed to disclose. However, he was allowed to disclose that quote unquote evidence of narcotics was not one of them Republican Senator Rand Paul from Kentucky said during the same hearing that having weapons on the vessel is not one of the criteria either.

22:28This was during a full committee hearing of the foreign relations committee for the fiscal year 27 state department budget by the way. Anyway, in August 2025 the US military mobilized to the Caribbean and on September 2nd 2025 the first strike event occurred and I say strike event because they were at least four missiles fired on that day. Further Washington Post defense secretary Pete Hanks says order was to quote kill everybody end quote video published after the attack shows about racing across the waves lighting up with a tower of fire after being hit. Nine people died because of that first missile. However, after the smoke and fire cleared surveillance video being watched by US military officials but not released to the public showed two people clinging to the remains of the vessel. They stayed in those freezing waters for roughly 45 minutes until Admiral Frank Bradley then head of the joint special operations command also known as JSOC ordered seal team six to hit it again killing the two remaining survivors.

23:36Pretty intercept Admiral Bradley sought legal counsel from JSOC's legal advisor in between the first and second strike. Although the response is it known a lawmaker told the intercept that the follow up strike was deemed legal two more missiles finally sank the vessel. Bradley who's now chief of special operations command said that he ordered the exo strikes because the shipwrecked men and the fragment of the boats still posed a threat sources told the intercept. For the New York Times the survivors had managed to get back on the boats remains and were waving to the planes before the second missile killed them. The aircraft used to carry out this strike was reportedly painted to look like a civilian plane. However, this practice has stopped since that first strike according to the New York Times. That same article states that the men had spotted the plane and turned the boat around back to Venezuela for sources who spoke with the intercept. JSOC did not know the names or supposed affiliations of all the persons aboard this vessel of the victims who've been identified by air wars eight were from Sunhawk.

24:43Eight were from San Juan Donare in Venezuela while free others were from local towns close to San Juan Donare called los estigos and Guidia. The one victim there's the most information about online is Luis Chamarriam Martinez who was identified by the associated press as a quote unquote long time local crime boss that made his money mostly from smuggling people and drugs across borders. He had previously been jailed after a boat he was operating capsized in 2020 killing quote about two dozen people and quote including several of his relatives. He was jailed in Venezuela to be clear some family members believe that Chamarriam was one of two bodies that have lost up on the shores of Trinidad and Tobago. Her and anonymous source who spoke with N plus Univis Young from Martinez's native Guidia. The anonymous source compared Chamarriam to an errand boy or drug traffickers not the owner. Her the killings re report by the Washington office on Latin America there's a significant possibility that many of the victims who died in that first strike were passengers traveling from Venezuela to Trinidad and Tobago.

25:56The report sites at clip and I will hear as well. Some people were familiar with boat movements and quote along the Caribbean coast of Colombia and Venezuela told L clip that quote it is common for the same boats that carry drugs on the outward journey to bring passengers back the Capitan as the boat operators are known take whatever work they can get. The second boat strike we know of occurred on September 15th 2025 Alejandro Caransamadina a Colombian man was when a free man killed by that boat strike. Family members told RTVC a Colombian news outlet that he had been on board the boat and that it was an artisanal fishing vessel citing the video posted by the Trump administration online. Family members posited that the ship had been having engine trouble at the time that it was fired upon when the New York Times spoke with Caransamadina's family the mother of his free children said that he had never been involved in drug smuggling quote if he was some kind of narco terrorist then why are we living in misery instead of a mansion she asked a reporter.

27:08Gustavo Petro who is still president of Colombia at the time he made these remarks said that Caransamadina might have been involved with drugs interment and Lee as many fishermen are forced to because poverty leaves them little else in terms of work. For reporting from El Heraldo and the New York Times he hit previously pled guilty in a scheme to steal weapons confiscated during legal proceedings but it appears that he never served jail time for this. I add this context because the truth of who these people were is extremely nuanced and regardless of whether they were quote unquote criminals in the eyes of the state or not they did not deserve to be killed. In fact as Petro said for these poor communities because of the economic desperation these fishermen face it's common for them to be extremely vulnerable to being exploited by drug trafficking organizations. Per the team behind los bombardéos the four men killed during the October for twenty twenty five strike were also fungueria.

28:08Luis Ramón Amundarang had traveled from his home to turn it out into bego in search of work he was a motorcycle taxi driver and a boat captain who accepted his first drug running job because he had no other way to pay for his youngest daughters during the technology treatment or to feed his four other children. According to a clip Ramón's cousin Robert Sanchez was also on the boat and was killed for the AP Robert had been pushed by economic pressure to join a drug smuggling job in hopes of getting enough money to buy an engine for his fishing boat. Ramón's wife told the clip that quote if Ramón had really been a narcoterrorist. If he had money if he'd been living large believe me I wouldn't be living where I live now and if you go to the homes of the other free men they killed you'll see that they don't have much either because none of it belonged to them in quote. I should say that a clip notes that all signs pointed them about to go on a run for a listed cargo but a friend of Ramón's told a clip that he was sure no drugs were on board at the time the boat was hit.

29:18Because the boat traveling from Trinidad and Tobago to Venezuela is going to pick up merchandise not deliver it quote boats carried drugs from South America northwards not the reverse end quote said María Teresa Ronderos director and co founder of a clip to the Guardian. On October 14th 2025 a strike killed six people Chad Chateau Joseph and Richie Samarro were among the victims they were both from Trinidad and Tobago and they were fishermen per CNC free TV. Joseph's grandfather characterized a strike as a quote active evil and quote they seemingly had no connection with drug trafficking other than Joseph's uncle being a quote unquote drug lord for the TNT Guardian. The last few filed by the families of Joseph and Samarro against the US government in the district of Massachusetts.

30:24Samarro was working on a farm in Venezuela and had called his sister days before he was killed to let her know that he had found a ride to Trinidad. Similarly Joseph had told his wife he had found about ride from Venezuela back home and would see her in a couple of days they never arrived. Her air wars do shake middle of it from Guidia was also one of the men killed during that strike he had once been a cadet at the Venezuelan National Guard Academy but dropped out to run drugs for the AP. The lawsuit against the US by the families of Joseph and Samarro is currently. Stalled pending the completion of judicial proceedings in Trinidad and Tobago that would declare the two men legally deceased and allow their families to take control of their states per the Trinidad daily express. I'm sorry to say that I don't have the time to name all of the victims that we know of or the circumstances which led to them being killed in the ocean forced into an unmarked grave.

31:25However, you can see the picture that's building through the strikes that I've mentioned. These people appear to be either common fishermen or forced into smuggling drugs because that's the only type of work that they could find in a poverty that they had lived through most of their lives. Even the ones who were nominally part of a drug trafficking organization perhaps one of the 24 on the secret list were low level members at most or only quote unquote affiliated perhaps because they were traveling on the same boat as someone who was a member or hitched a ride on a boat carrying drugs. The truth is we will likely never know the full details of who all these people were and what made the US target them specifically. After the first strike an official admitted that only one victim was considered a member of a designated terrorist organization per the intercept the rest were affiliates Pentagon officials have claimed that they knew the identities of everyone on that first boat but percent of their mark Warner ranking Democrat of the Senate intelligence committee and in a review with ABC quote they don't know all of the individuals on many of the other boats in quote.

32:40I should also mention here that maritime interdictions have not stopped while these boat strikes have gone on per a clip on the same day as that very first strike the Colombian aerospace force its Dominican counterpart and the US joint interagency task for South carried out operations soos which led to the seizure of nearly 450 kilos of cocaine and the rest of two people. Soos and other operations like it have occurred in parallel to the violent extra judicial killings of the boat strikes this shows that contrary to what the Trump administration said blowing up random people on boats isn't the only way to curb drug trafficking there is certainly another way to stop it that doesn't involve murder and guarantees a person's day in court. This is in line with a new tactic utilize in the eastern Pacific and the Caribbean where South con forces have been introducing alleged floating refueling stations that support illicit drug trafficking many of the publicly listed press releases related to these indiction specified that they operate for those tornadoes these vessels are also sunk via an explosion and per the press releases I've read the crew on these ships are disembarked.

34:02And then handed over to their respective countries authorities. However speaking of a day in court free people have been rescued as survivors in two incidents on October 16th 2025 two men were pulled from a sinking semi submersible vessel and the fed and the two phoenix of Ecuador had previously been convicted of cocaine distribution but his sister told L. Pais that he'd been working as a fisherman before the US struck the vessel he was on. The second survivor who's from Colombia had no criminal history and no cartel links according to L. Pais. Even though Trump promised to prosecute them they were eventually let go without being formally charged by either the US or their home countries obviously this begs the question if these people are really quote unquote narco terrace. Why have they been able to go free as L. Pais notes Trump's strategy is paradoxical the Trump admin has enough justification to kill them extra judicially but not to charge these men in a court of law.

35:11So what's the question mark all possible evidence that could link these men to alleged drug trafficking if there ever was any in the first place goes up in literal smoke the moment that these boats are hit. It's likely that a court case would expose much of the legal scaffolding that upholds the fin legal justification that the Trump administration is using for these strikes as well as put on display that many of these people might really just be fishermen forced into participating in the drug trade as look out or again. Something like that because they had no other opportunities a note on survivors there haven't been more of them because the US is apparently intent on not looking for them pray the intercept after December 30 strikes and free vessels. Southcom said that it quote unquote immediately notified the coast guard but it took the coast guard almost 45 hours to begin searching the attack zone for survivors. It is believed that the 11 people on these vessels drowned at sea to end this section on March 24, 2026 the Ecuadorianship La Negra Francisco de los which was coming back from weeks of fishing at sea was hit by an apparent US military drone strike.

36:25According to N plus one of the C. The crew had been forced off of the boat by apparent US military personnel although it's unclear from which agency they could have been photos from another ship that was detained in the region show that it might have been coast guard personnel per and plus is reporting crew of La Negra Francisco de los as well as the Don Macca which was intercepted on April 30th alleged to drop site news and mongave la tam. That they were arbitrarily detained in tortured the crew of the Negra Francisco de los was moved roughly 900 miles north from their position and turned over to the Salvadoran Coast Guard meanwhile the group that on Macca told drop site they had been quote held hostage and hooded for eight days. La Fiorela another Ecuadorianship and its crew went missing in January per the New Yorker the wife of the captain who commanded the ship told drop site that her husband had called her on an emergency line saying that quote American aircraft two drones and a blue patrol ship and quote had been circling the boat the next day the Fiorela in its crew disappeared.

37:39The prosecutor who had led the investigation into the Fiorela's disappearance was shot dead alongside her sister in Manta per the New Yorker. There do not appear to be any links between these free boats in drug trafficking for the report cited earlier unlike the boat strikes the US has not taken boastful credit for the disappearance and detention of these ships and actively denies having done anything to harm them. For their part the Salvadoran military says that the men of the Francisco de la Fiorela had been shipwrecked and then rescued as part of a quote unquote humanitarian operation. It's unclear if these are related to operation southern spear or joint task force western hemisphere its evolution. There was a brief two month pause on these boat strikes from July 21 to August 23. The strike was a long time ago but a time of recording the strikes have continued unabated there appears to be no end in sight for this terror.

38:39These strikes are part of the Trump administration's focus on exerting control over the western hemisphere the so called Trump corollary to the Monroe doctrine. As part of this renewed focus on the region Trump attacked Venezuela and kidnapped its president Nicolas Maduro is currently sitting in jail in New York. Meanwhile the US has started partnering with other countries in the region to attack so called dark oteris. These countries such as Ecuador Colombia and Honduras have agreed to join operations on their soil with US personnel. These include airstrikes which I previously mentioned as the attack on that dairy farm. It's clear that this rising tide of anti-narcoterrorism actions will become more prominent across Latin America. I should also say quote unquote anti-narcoterrorism actions. A legit narcoterrorism. On September 22nd the United States Argentina Bolivia Chile Colombia Costa Rica Republic of Americana Ecuador El Salvador Guyana Honduras Panamá Paraguay Peru

39:45and Trinidad and Tobago published a joint statement declaring that they were announcing the quote first joint action under our newly announced pillars individual and collective action to confront the scourge of narcoterrorism. As such we declare our intention to impose as applicable and in accordance with our respective international and domestic legal obligations. As it freezes immigration and visa restrictions for members associates and supporters of the organizations and criminal liability for individuals knowingly providing material support including logistical support to the organizations among other measures. This announcement has seemingly been a long time coming at a conference of the America's counter cartel coalition in March 2026. Even Miller told Latin American military leaders that quote these organizations can only be defeated with military power and I see some heads nodding up front because they understand you're dealing with a lot of lawyers in your country I'm sure.

40:49You have my permission not to listen to them end quote this is frightful to be honest with you there's not enough space in this episode today but I assure you I will talk about this more later at some point if you want a brief intro into what the US has done in Latin America before you can listen to my episodes on the Dominican Republic and my episode on the US's colonies. To be honest with you things are not looking good in terms of democratic rights in the Americas I want to end this episode by highlighting this quote from the Washington office on Latin America killing street report quote if normalization of the boat strikes takes hold in the US president can assert an unlimited license to kill the protections of the rule of law will be gravely weakened for all of us not just those who are the most immediate. And you can follow the rules on media at the call zone media pretty much everywhere.

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43:03True. I'm former U.S. Mons National soccer team player Carly Lloyd and Fox Sports reporter Jenny Taft and on our new podcast whatever it takes we're talking motherhood marriages careers and figuring out how to balance it all and we'll discuss the game that brought us together because nothing is off limits. Do you remember your initial reaction when Fox called you to be a part of the World Cup. I was like no I don't want to do it you said no. I played with players that didn't I don't think that they really truly love the game I found the love with the ball at my foot. But in my head it was the long game it was like I don't care what I'm being asked to do at Fox I'm going to go get some reps and I'm going to learn it and love it and embrace it. He said this group of people will never be in the same room as part of the same team ever again in your life and it is your job to make sure that you enjoy the moment you're proud of what you accomplish together. Listen to whatever it takes with Carly Lloyd and Jenny Taft on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts a decade ago the ethanol kingpin of Iowa became the king of corn in Brazil.

44:15So we met with a lot of larger farmers went from Bahia to Tokyo teens to Montagro so he brought a team of executives they were going to help the country get in on a gold rush. Carbon and its derivatives are going to be really the next great commodity that the globe's going to trade. But back home in Iowa trouble is brewing. If you live in Iowa your land your water and your voice could all be at risk thanks to a man named Bruce Rastetter. Now people are questioning if his climate solutions have anything to do with climate at all. On this season of drilled carbon cowboys the story of how the ethanol kingpin of Iowa became the king of corn in Brazil and what it tells us about the limits of technology and markets to solve the climate crisis. Listen on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The W and V a playoffs are about to begin the talent is insane and the personalities are giving main character energy and of course the fans love it.

45:19But 30 years ago when the leak first started it was a different story. I remember sitting with a couple of male writers all whining about what are they going to do if they break a nail and that one's going to show up. But from the very beginning there were two teams that captured everyone's attention. The comments were the real deal. I mean come on. The Liberty never gave up. They never stopped fighting. I knew that rivalry was going to be amazing from the beginning. I'm Carrie champion and this is biggest rivalries of all time season two. The New York Liberty versus the Houston comments. The very first rivalry of the WNBA. They picked us the finish last and they picked them the finish first. That's all you need to know. I remember looking around thinking this is going to change things. Basketball was going to have this fundamental impact on the way people viewed women athletes. Listen to biggest rivalries of all time on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Is there bad blood between you in the comments as you guys meet again in the championship?

46:23Oh we're coming back to win. Real quick if any of these sound familiar there's something you can do right now craving something sweet after every meal hungry again an hour after you eat. Weight won't budge no matter how disciplined you are. These are all signs that your body isn't producing enough GLP one. The hormone that keeps you full and supports weight loss. The good news. Bioma GLP one booster helps you increase its natural production. So you can quiet the food noise and enjoy smoother weight management when following a healthy lifestyle. Head to bioma.health slash GLP one and use code podcast to get 15% off. Hello everyone and welcome to it. Good happen here. My name is Donna Elkurd. I'm a researcher and analyst of Arab and Palestinian politics. Today on the podcast I'm speaking with Harsh Awalia, who is an activist and writer based in Canada. Her book, Border and Rule Global Migration Capitalism on the rise of racist nationalism. I think is essential reading for all of us who are concerned with the rise of fascism and its connection to anti immigrant sentiment

47:29and narratives that are taking root in a lot of our societies. I spoke with Harsha about the for lack of a better term incident that happened in the Spanish enclave of Saota on the tip of Morocco. Exactly a month ago. So we recorded this podcast on September 10th. A month ago, exactly I think something like 70,000 migrants attempted to cross over into the Spanish enclave to seek refuge in the European continent. Some of these migrants were from Morocco, but many were not. And there was a huge outrage and backlash against migrants and against what happened there from the left and the right as we'll discuss in the interview. So I spoke with Harsha about what the implications of these arguments have been. And how do we understand this anti immigrant sentiment that again sometimes comes both from the right and the left. So I hope that this is a useful interview and useful for some of us who are trying to center migration and freedom of movement in our struggle against fascism.

48:31Without further ado, here's Harsha Wallyo. So I'd like to start with maybe just a brief summary for our listeners since the world is on fire and things move quickly about what happened last month in Saota. I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. Yeah, and it's almost exactly to the day it's been 30 days. And so what happened a month ago is approximately 70,000 migrants from Morocco. And here it's important to say, you know, migrants came from Morocco, but not all the migrants were Moroccan because of course, Morocco is one of many transit routes for migrants looking to come through the Mediterranean into Europe. And so the 70,000 migrants who came from Morocco were not only Moroccan migrants, but included migrants from Sudan, Mali, Yemen, Huzza, Palestine, 48 and others. And so what happened to 70,000 migrants, transited into Saota.

49:34And Saota is also a transit point into the EU. And so Saota is one of the Spanish held enclaves in Moroccan territory and has long been held by Spain and is claimed by Spain, despite being on the continent of Africa. And because it is under formal Spanish jurisdiction, a lot of migrants looking to come into the EU have transited through the enclaves as they're called. So Saota and Malila, another one is the Canary Islands. In the 1990s, this has been one of the major routes of migration. And so while it may seem incredibly significant and spectacular, which it was because of the scale, the fact that Saota and Malila are transit points into the EU for migrants is part of a very long and ongoing trajectory. We saw particularly because of the scale of 70,000 people crossing into Saota was this global kind of uproar that frankly came from many parts, you know, came of course from the right where they're right and nationalists across the spectrum.

50:45So the far right, but also conservatives and at a global scale, right, so not just in Europe, but also in the United States and elsewhere, this fed into of course the perfect anti migrant storm that far right and fascists and conservative forces are always fueling. But also we saw a lot of, I would argue misinformation for many leftist commentators who arguably actually used a lot of right wing rhetoric to claim that this was an attack on Spain because of Spain's very vocal position and support of Palestine. And so this created really a perfect storm for a lot of misinformation across the spectrum, particularly for people who had frankly never even heard of Saota before. And so this is kind of what happened both in terms of the really significant scale of migration that took place, but also what we saw after in terms of how people responded to this moment. Thank you for sending it up that we will definitely get into for me of interest is the leftist misinformation that we saw all over the internet, but before I get into kind of some of the details of the aftermath, I also just want to kind of break down why did migrants think this was a good time to try to make it to Europe like why in this scale.

52:01Yeah, it's a good question and you know I think a lot of what's happening is frankly still being pieced together because you know one of the things that we did see in the aftermath was a lot of you know clipping and hypotheses. And there are still people on the ground who are talking to migrants to find out you know why did you make this journey at this moment what is the circulation of information that was happening. So a lot of that is still coming out, which I think I want to emphasize because I think in like a hot take economy, we don't we aren't sitting with accurate information always. And there isn't a simple answer because again, I would emphasize that migrants who migrated in that moment again were coming from very different backgrounds and by backgrounds, I don't just mean the kind of national origins that I pointed out, but you know many of the migrants have left, but many of the migrants are still there. And so people were in very different situations as to why they chose to make the move in that moment. There isn't a single answer. Some of the factors that we can point to and we can see is you know there was a Supreme Court decision in Spain just a few weeks prior to this this mass migration in July.

53:10And so that decision was in June and you know that decision was a very specific Supreme Court decision in Spain about regularization because Spain has been regularizing migrants, which has been really significant actually in the context of you know this right word drift in the EU that has been escalating Spain's regularization program was significant. And there was a Supreme Court decision associated with that about travel and travel route to kind of put it simply what we saw is a several misinterpretations of that Supreme Court decision that started to circulate. And you know for anyone who is familiar or who has family who has been looking to migrate you know from all of the many situations and horrors around the world, we know that you know information travels fast. So one of the kind of conspiracy theories is like there's no way 70,000 people would have all gotten access to the same information. And frankly that is a complete misunderstanding of how diasporic communities and communities who are immobilized who are looking to migrate how information travels.

54:18How much wider travels much wider many of the WhatsApp groups, for example, that in this situation people were referencing. There was at least two groups that had almost 200,000 people on the WhatsApp groups. Yeah. And this is not a conspiracy theory because actually coincidentally yesterday a number of declassified documents were released by Spain. And so these Spanish documents revealed that there are some of these WhatsApp groups had almost 200,000 people on each of them. And so if you think about it, that's just a fraction of the people you know. So the issue is not how information travels. It's just whether people choose to act on that information how verified they think that information is. And so that was significant. The misinterpretation of the Supreme Court decision bolstered a lot of these WhatsApp groups to think like actually now is the moment. Right. Actually just yesterday the information that I was referencing actually suggested that the Spanish government was told by Spanish intelligence that there was going to be some significant movement in July in mid July. Okay.

55:18Because of access to these WhatsApp groups. And we know that many of the migrants, particularly non-Moroccan migrants in Morocco were waiting to move in the summer because that is actually typically when people move not at the scale of 70,000. But it is not on her to for thousands and thousands of people to be on the move through the summer trying to get into Europe, particularly crossing through the Mediterranean. So that is actually just frankly a baseline. But when it comes to a lot of migration and then of course we did have the element of you know to what degree did the Moroccan government and Moroccan authorities not necessarily you know foster this in an active way, but definitely. Suggestions that you know Moroccan authorities were not as heavy handed as they have been in the past when collaborating on border securitization. And perhaps using this moment to leverage with Spain with respect to Western Sahara. So you know multiple factors were at play. But it is the main things that stand out, particularly from migrants who both returned or are still in so etta is really the supreme court decision.

56:22And then just this kind of surge that happened in the moment or more and more people felt in the moment that they could make the crossing because of the seemingly lacks border securitization in that moment. I want to get to Morocco and Western Sahara in just a moment. Listeners will remember or hopefully will remember a episode I recently did with Western Sahara activists to how it's at them. So I'll link that in the show notes. But before we get to that, just to kind of break down the aftermath, the kind of immediate aftermath we saw in Spain. And as you said, like not just Spain, not just Europe, but also the United States, but let's maybe start with Spain. Like has there been kind of an anti immigrant backlash as a result of this and what does that look like. And then how has that kind of fed into these narratives, like especially in the United States, like the great replacement theory, like people really hooked on to these things. So maybe you could break that down for us.

57:26Yeah, you know, the things that have been happening on the ground, you know, I'm also obviously not there, but being in touch with comrades there and following what's happening has been incredibly alarming. You know, so it is undeniable, of course, that we are overall in a crisis of neoliberalism and austerity and we know all of the ways in which that means people feel intense economic pressures in their lives. Saohta is not a huge place in terms of geography and population. And so just the ability for the infrastructure, the local infrastructure to actually support people in a good way has been significantly strained. However, you know, while that is true, that is often layered as we see in many places with anti migrants in a phobia right where migrants become the scapegoat for capitalist austerity become the scapegoat around scarce resources. And almost every day in Saohta, there has been anti migrant protests since the last 30 days, almost every single day.

58:30It initially started by far right forces coming into Saohta from other cities, particularly from Spain and elsewhere, really to foster this phenomenon. And unfortunately now it has extended into Saohta locals as well. And so Saohta has historically been known for being a very multicultural space. You know, it is it is a borderland. And so I use multiculturalism not in the liberal way, but in a very sincere way of what it means for people to have lived together for a very long time. And I don't see that to romanticize all the anti migrant violence has that has been ongoing in the securitization of the enclaves since the 1990s. But I mean within the local communities. And that has been fracturing, you know, many of the organizations that have been operating in Saohta to support migrants are now facing attacks. You know, they are being called traders. They are facing a lot of hatred just for supporting migrants, just for doing a company meant just for doing documentation and they've been doing incredibly important documentation work documenting how migrants have been stranded alone on the beach.

59:38Many migrants have been corral and told that they cannot leave certain areas. So they are basically enclosed into certain areas of Saohta. Many of them have been denied registration. So registration is the process through which you become registered into the state registry in order to access supports. So they have documented that then when they accompany people, they are being arbitrarily denied and when they're denied that means they can't access any of the supports. There have been beatings by local police authorities. There have also been local attacks on migrants by right forces. So it has been incredibly hard and horrific to witness this. And what I find particularly hard about this moment, just to return to this earlier moment, you know, when migrants were first landing on Saohta in July, the way that so many left-wing comrades were quick to dismiss it. I'm not saying the left is responsible for the violence, but it has meant a very quick turn away and abandonment of migrants because people were quick to just call it an invasion and say, well, so many of the migrants have come back.

1:00:43It was not an issue, but that ignores the fact that there are in fact many migrants who are still there, I mean, again, particularly migrants from Palestine, from Yemen, from Mali, from Sudan, who have been again, you know, just kind of stranded on on the beaches. And for organizations in Saohta who are supporting migrants and migrant justice organizations, you know, they've said that they haven't seen anything like this in decades in terms of the work and the impact on the ground. And just desperate conditions for these people that I think, like you said, the the left likes not all the left. Let's just be, you know, everybody get upset with me. But some large parts of the left and the global North that like really loves a neat narrative. Yeah, so let's maybe get into that. Like, why did we see for me, especially English speaking, go in search and pundits, speak on the left. And why did they connect this to an Israeli plot? Yeah, I mean, I think what we've seen in the past few years, since the ongoing genocide, various kinds of left have emerged, you know, one of those left has been very quick on the takes on the upticks.

1:01:55And in particular, we see very simplistic narratives where people may not actually know the extent of place based geographies and movements and have only seen clickbait about what countries have done to stand up to the Zionist enemy. Right. And that is important. Spain, for example, is one of those countries that has stood up to the Zionist entity. And so we saw this with, you know, tremendous support, for example, for South Africa during the ICJ hearing. And at the same time, we had organizers from Sudan saying, hey, can we talk about what's happening between the South African state and the UAE and the closer relationships, you know, none of which is to simplify in the opposite direction. And so what we saw in the aftermath of July and really from commentators who frankly in my humble opinion have any connection to migrant movements, right? So do not know the history of COTA do not understand a COTA as a transit point for many decades.

1:02:58And I think that's the only thing that I think is that we are not going to be harping on this idea that because it was migrants entering into COTA, it was an attack on Spanish sovereignty. You know, there was all these clips of these migrants are military aged men just look at them. They're like 18 to 45. And it's like, who do you think most migrants are in general? So that's not a demographic of many migrants, not exclusively, of course, but that is the reality of migration, particularly on dangerous routes, right? That has been one of the impacts of securitizing the borders is that it does make it harder for elderly or kids to migrate because those routes are becoming more dangerous. And so the narrative became look, this is a US Israeli Moroccan backed plot to destabilize Spain and Spanish sovereignty at a time when Spain is standing up to Palestine, like that was the through line. And all of the evidence was clipped and farmed to justify that. And so you know, that was why we saw what we did. I think in this moment we're seeing many other similar narratives in that trajectory that are not about COTA,

1:04:05but that are in that same vein where people want to suggest that everything is a US Israeli backed conspiracy. Frankly, you know, people straight up saying like, you know, if anyone is against Spain, they must be backed by by Zionists, like, you know, and it is clear cut and nuances terrible and nuances is too side as a, you know, and so I think there was an optic because that has become part of part of some segments of leftist. Yeah, people in the Palestine space, I'll speak for myself in particular, like this struggle to have a truly internationalist perspective has been, yeah, I growing struggle in the movement, like, to kind of push against the, the easy narratives that people want to latch on to and your argument is that like treating it as a foreign military like maneuver, like you're just conceding the far right premise entirely. So let's maybe also talk about the Moroccan role here. You mentioned already that like there is an interest of the Moroccan state to use migration as a leverage and Western Sahara plays a role in this. So could you maybe break that down for us?

1:05:29Yeah, I think as I mentioned, you know, some of this is still being parsed out. And so, you know, we don't know for sure, but what we do know is that Moroccan state authorities likely relaxed their kind of border controls in that moment. And I think it is important here again to emphasize that, you know, both Morocco and Spain have for a long time collaborated on border controls, right? And so, you know, one of the arguments that I generally make is that we have to understand borders as a language. And so, as a Lynch pin in state violence that, you know, while there are many things often at play in terms of global geopolitics, whether it's imperialism, of course, or bilateral kind of relationships between various states. One of the things they have always collaborated on and continue to collaborate on is borders. It's completely global. And, you know, Spain and Morocco have long collaborated. Spain has often funded Moroccan border securitization. And so, while there are many significant differences between Spain and Morocco, for example, on their positions and alignments on Palestine, you know, Morocco's normalization, Spain's significant stance against Zionism and Israel, although imperfect significantly more than Morocco, that is undeniable.

1:06:47And so, in the United States, Spain and Morocco's significant differences on Western Sahara, they have collaborated on border securitization. So, that is important to hold as the overall context. And then in this moment, you know, it's hard to say precisely because again, we don't have all of that kind of information. But what we do know is that a different times Spain has leveraged the border in Morocco, has leveraged the border for their own personal interests, particularly around Western Sahara. And so, in the United States, Spain, Spain has actually fluctuated on its position on Western Sahara over the past several years. In 2021, as we know, Spain reversed its position on supporting an independent referendum on Western Sahara. And so, in the moment in 2026, has been really important because Algeria and Spain have reestablished relationships. While we don't know the extent of that relationship, we know that those relationships being reestablished did cause some discontent for the Moroccan state. And so, you know, we can speculate that that is one of the reasons, particularly in this moment, that Morocco may have decided to really leverage the border in a particular way.

1:07:58To have Spain rethink any possibility of rethinking its position on Western Sahara. And to emphasize, Spain has not yet reversed its decision from 2021. But people understood that maybe this gesture towards Algeria might suggest that Spain was going to change its position on Western Sahara. Interesting. Yeah. No, I think it's a very important point to underscore that there is, as you mentioned in your previous work, this kind of externalization of enforcement. And that there are all these states around the world that play that role, you know, fortress Europe. I don't know catchphrases the right term here. But like we talked a lot about fortress Europe, like I don't know 10 years ago. And the role that a lot of these Middle Eastern states, despite a lot of differences, like you said, like play in the maintenance of border imperialism. I kind of want to maybe end on this idea from some of your commentary on this on this particular incident a month ago about how you know we need to understand like people will keep crossing. That's going to be the significance. So for those of us who aren't taking an anti-emigrant position, either from their left or the right, like what should someone who takes that seriously actually be organizing towards right now?

1:09:11Yeah, I love that question because for me, when I think about the externalization of borders as you just were talking about, to me, it means that if we see bordering as happening not just as, you know, a line on a map that's, you know, about people crossing in particular moments, or you know, especially right now, what's happening, for example, in the US or what we see with AFD's victory in a region of Germany. All of this to me really points to like it is impossible to separate out the rise of fascism from anti-emigrant racism. And so when I think about, you know, what can we do to support migrants? It really is a much broader struggle to dismantle fascism because despite all their differences and all holes for the past decade have shown this. That in different parts of the world, people vote for fascist parties for different reasons, right? Because obviously not every geography is the same. But the two most significant similarities is anti-Muslim racism and anti-emigrant racism. That is the most consistent similarity in very disparate parts of the world.

1:10:19Because, you know, for example, white supremacy is not necessarily at play in India, right? Like that is not the governing framework for fascism, but it is Hindutva, which is motivated by anti-Muslim racism, caste supremacy, and also anti-migrant racism, right? All of the changes that we're seeing under Hindutva that are denationalizing and stripping people of citizenship, particularly from Muslim regions of India. So those are very connected in many different parts of the world. And so I think it is so important to understand the ways in which anti-migrant racism is not only about migrants on the move, but it is part of a much bigger project of fascism. And so dismantling fascism is actually so central to thinking about no borders and, you know, the freedom to move. And also, for me, it really is about the freedoms to stay, right? So all of our struggle is against imperialism, but an anti-imperialism that is reflected with internationalism that centers, you know, the way in which borders are a structuring of imperialism, that we cannot continue to see the nation state as an anti-imperialist formation.

1:11:26The nation state as a form, I'm not talking about particular governments, you know, whether they're anti-puralists or not, but as a form. And so thinking about anti-imperialism from an internationalist perspective is so central to migrant struggles, you know, like what is, how do we make sure that people are not being displaced and immobilized by bordering regimes and the dismantling of capitalism? So for me, really thinking about bordering as a through line, through our struggles for abolition, through our struggles against imperialism, through our struggles against displacement and genocide and gentrification, all of these are very similar forces, right? Very different, of course, in how people are impacted, but similar in their logics. So to me thinking about bordering as central is how we actually fight for people on the move. It is to refuse to silo migrants into this other struggle, because that is actually what the right relies on, right? Like if we actually think about it, migrant is one of the most state constructed categories. Like we know everything is constructed, racist constructed, gender is constructed, but migrant truly is so constructed, you know, it's literally just about a paper.

1:12:31And so, you know, to refuse to feed into the idea of that construction is to understand migration as inherently connected to all of these struggles, right? It is actually a symptom and cannot be siloed as a kind of separate side issue that people who've strand from migrant justice are just, you know, this little pro-immigrant silo alongside all these struggles. It is to see bordering as the linchpin that sustains so many other forms of violence. No, that's so well put. I think we all could do in all of our respective communities to do a little bit more work understanding what fascism actually is. Like what are the building blocks, what are the mechanisms of fascism? And if there's consistency in being anti-fascist, then you see this very clearly that the immigrant issue is essential. But unfortunately, there is not always consistency. But yeah, thank you so much, Harsha. This has been such a wonderful conversation and I know that a lot of people will get a lot out of it. So thank you for your time.

1:13:31Thank you so much and thank you for your work. Your work is just so deeply appreciated. Please know that. Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right, take care everybody. Every family has a version of the list. It starts after the last storm or the last power outage or the last time the news got loud. Back up power, food that keeps, clean water, a way to stay safe if the roads close, and then it sits in a drawer, half checked. Because building it means six websites, six shipping dates, and six guesses that whether any of it actually works. Four patriots is the whole list in one place. Solar generators that run the fridge, the phones, and the medical devices, no gas, safe for indoor use, and recharged by the sun. Emergency food designed to last 25 years and made to actually taste good. Water filtration certified to reduce more than 200 contaminants. Survival gear for the go bag over a million families have checked the list here. Stop building it piece by piece.

1:14:31Go to the number four patriots.com start with the kit that fits your family in order today. 100% satisfaction guarantee payment plans available and it ships right to your door. Four patriots tried tested true. I'm former USman's National Soccer Team player, Carly Lloyd, and Fox Sports Reporter Jenny Taft. And on our new podcast, whatever it takes, we're talking motherhood, marriages, careers, and figuring out how to balance it all. And we'll discuss the game that brought us together because nothing is off limits. Do you remember your initial reaction when Fox called you to be a part of the World Cup? I was like, no, I don't want to do it. You said no. I played with players that didn't. I don't think that they really truly loved the game. I found the love with the ball at my fight. But in my head, it was the long game. It was like, I don't care what I'm being asked to do at Fox. I'm going to go get some reps and I'm going to learn it and love it and embrace it. He said, this group of people will never be in the same room as part of the same team ever again in your life.

1:15:36And it is your job to make sure that you enjoy the moment, you're proud of what you accomplish together. Listen to whatever it takes with Carly Lloyd and Jenny Taft on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. A decade ago, the ethanol kingpin of Iowa became the king of corn in Brazil. So we met with a lot of larger farmers, went from Bahia to Tokatine's to Montagro so. He brought a team of executives. They were going to help the country get in on a gold rush. Carbon and distributives are going to be really the next great commodity that the globe's going to trade. But back home in Iowa trouble was brewing. If you live in Iowa, your land, your water and your voice could all be at risk thanks to a man named Bruce Rastetter. Now people are questioning if his climate solutions have anything to do with climate at all. You got to get Bruce with it guys. They're Republicans. They don't get a **** at a money. On this season of drilled carbon capoise, the story of how the ethanol kingpin of Iowa became the king of corn in Brazil.

1:16:41And what it tells us about the limits of technology and markets to solve the climate crisis. Listen on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. The WNVA playoffs are about to begin. The talent is insane and the personalities are giving main character energy. And of course, the fans love it. But 30 years ago when the leak first started, it was a different story. I remember sitting with a couple of male writers all whining about, oh, what are they going to do if they break a nail? And that one's going to show up. But from the very beginning, there were two teams that captured everyone's attention. The comments were the real deal. I mean, come on. The Liberty never gave up. They never stopped fighting. I knew that rivalry was going to be amazing from the beginning. I'm Kerry Champion. And this is biggest rivalries of all time season two. The New York Liberty versus the Houston comments. The very first rivalry of the WNVA. They picked us to finish last and they picked them to finish first.

1:17:41That's all you need to know. I remember looking around thinking, this is going to change things. Basketball was going to have this fundamental impact on the way people viewed women athletes. Listen to biggest rivalries of all time on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Is there bad blood between you and the comments as you guys meet again in the championship? Oh, we're coming back to win. I'm Britt Coleman. And I'm Trevor Sikama. Have you ever watched a game and wondered what really made the difference beyond the final score? That's exactly why we created NFL Pro. Bro, it got a man wide open. Touchdown! Stay locked! Every week we use exclusive next-gen stats insights and NFL content to break down the biggest stories, matchups and moments from around the league. We go beyond the box score to uncover the numbers, the tendencies and details that help explain what actually happened on the field.

1:18:42Fires it out but flat to barkly to beat one man, spins past another, leaps over a bird! And don't worry, this isn't just a show for stats experts. We use advanced analytics to help tell the story behind the game, turning the numbers into insights that every fan can understand and enjoy. So whether you're a casual fan learning more about football or a hardcore fan who can't get enough analysis, our goal is to help you see the game in a whole new way. If you've ever wanted to know why a playwork, how a matchup was won, or what most fans missed on Sunday, NFL Pro delivers insights you simply can't get anywhere else. Listen to NFL Pro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to IkeDapit here, I'm Kevin Foster, and today we're separating the art from the artist, specifically taking Mackelmore's solid political takes and isolating them from his, let's just say,

1:19:44iconic bars like, what up, I got a big cock. For those who aren't caught up, Mackelmore was touring with Ed Sheeran not long ago, before he was removed from the tour for espousing pro-Palestine statements on stage at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey. Specifically, he said free Palestine a few times and thanks students at Columbia University for kicking off the encampments movement in spring of 2024. Those students inspired his song, Hins Hall, the title student protesters gave Columbia's Hamilton Hall, named after Henry Job, a five-year-old who was brutally murdered by the Israeli defense forces in Gaza in January of 2024. In a beautiful case of Leopard's eating faces, Ed Sheeran's entire lineup of opening acts and his backing band withdrew from the tour in solidarity with Mackelmore. In his next performance, Sheeran gave a sort of apology speech to the crowd, reading off a teleprompter, in which he did not use the words genocide or Palestinian.

1:20:45Rather than focusing on that due to the outstanding negative response to Mackelmore's statements from Zionist billionaires, I think it's worth listening to some of what he actually said on stage. Here's a clip from his Instagram. To all of my Jewish brothers and sisters, criticism of Israel, criticism of apartheid being against genocide in no way is a criticism of you. My message is for peace, love for all human beings to be treated with dignity, respect, and equality. So I say free Palestine. I say free Lebanon. I say free Cuba. I say free Congo. Free Sudan. Free all people in America living in fear over this terrorist organization ice. None of us will be free until we are all free. This song is called Hens Hall.

1:21:50Some deeply frightening stuff in there, at least for Robert Kraft, the pro-Israel billionaire owner of the New England Patriots football team, Angelette Stadium in Foxboro, Massachusetts near Boston, where Mackelmore was set to appear on tour with Sheeran. Kraft was not happy with Mackelmore's support of Palestinian equal rights on stage, and he confirmed to Rolling Stone that he barred Mackelmore from appearing at the Boston shows over quote, recent actions, material shared from the stage during Ed Sheeran's shows in New Jersey, and a broader history of anti-Semitic rhetoric and imagery that we believe has been deeply offensive and hurtful to the Jewish community, unquote. Despite Mackelmore's clear calls for equality and peace, Kraft felt his presence at Sheeran Stadium would stymie the supposed goal of providing a quote, welcoming environment for all guests and ensuring that all events held at our venue do not provide a platform for hate speech, unquote. Funnily enough, those shows ended up getting canceled anyway due to severe weather warnings.

1:22:55Kraft allegedly did not stop there. According to a post by Mackelmore following his removal from the tour, Sheeran apparently said that Kraft had rallied other stadium owners with an ultimatum. Quoting from that post, if Mackelmore stays on the tour, you will not be allowed to play in our venues, unquote. The senior touring group, the promoter of the US portion of Sheeran's tour, said in a statement that they were notified by venues from the upcoming US tour dates that they would not allow a concert to take place with Mackelmore in the lineup. Obviously, this represents a serious affront to freedom of speech, something that is far from new on the matter of Palestine. As of yet, Kraft has not discussed or denied the allegations of mounting this pressure campaign against the rapper. In response to the controversy, basically everyone and their mother chimed in, including representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who pretty well lays out the real focus of this episode. This is about how just a handful of stadium owners and the elite can prevent an entire massive issue, in this case the genocide and Gaza, but it doesn't stop there.

1:24:07It could be speaking out about AI, it could be speaking out about any issues. Here's where things get interesting. Rolling Stone lists seven stadium venues that allegedly objected to Mackelmore's inclusion in the tour, and of those seven, five are publicly owned by either the city, county or state in which they reside. I could spend quite a lot of time talking about how I think Ed Sheeran is a coward, how it is a political statement to fold in favor of genocide deniers, but what I'm far more interested in is the first amendment implications of Kraft's alleged actions and the ways in which billionaires are able to wield authority over our rights, even through public institutions and capital. To discuss this in depth, I've interviewed friend of the pod, Mo Meltzer Cohen, a law professor at CUNY School of Law, experienced in defense of people targeted on the basis of First Amendment protected beliefs, identities and association. Let's dive right into that. I'm kind of wondering if you can just tell me from what you know about this case, what do you make of a billionaire kind of organizing a censorship campaign like this? Have you seen similar things in different contexts around free speech?

1:25:24Well, certainly, and they're all all manner of ways in which coercive social or economic pressure is brought to bear on different people or different events or forums in order to constrain the expressive conduct of different people or different groups. There's certainly nothing at all that is unique or unusual about that. I think what's important to recognize before we really get too deep into this is when we're talking about free speech principles, we can talk about free speech as or free expression as a shared cultural value. But the first amendment only applies to the government, right? So when we're talking about censorship, we need to be clear about whether we're talking about a private individual or company refusing to platform particular speech, which is certainly censorship, but it isn't government censorship of the kind that the first person that is going to be in the right way.

1:26:36The first amendment is concerned with, right? Yeah. The first amendment as a legal principle, a set of legal principles, is a constraint on the power of the government to censor political speech or to censor free expression, right? It's a constraint on the power of the state to restrict people's ability to speak to us. To associate with each other to believe freely. And so I think what's interesting about this particular situation that you've raised is that, you know, an event planning company or a private theater or Robert Kraft himself as an individual are certainly at liberty to decline to give a platform to any kind of a platform. To any speech that they find offensive Robert Kraft takes some bridge at somebody's music.

1:27:42He is under no obligation to subsidize it to support it to give it a platform. But you've pointed out that some of these stadiums at which these performances were scheduled to occur are owned by cities, are municiply owned or are owned by the state. I think one of them you said is owned by the state of Florida. Yeah, so I can like dive into a little bit of the details on that. There's specifically the stadiums that are in Philadelphia, Atlanta, Tampa, Indianapolis and Arlington, Texas. They're not all operated by public entities, but they are all owned by public entities that between, you know, city, county and state. But in the examples where they are privately operated, it's like the Atlanta Falcons or the Philadelphia Eagles, but that you know, I reached out to these different groups. And in some cases they tried to push it on to the operators like in Philadelphia, they told me to reach out to the Eagles for Lincoln financial stadium.

1:28:45They did not respond to my emails. And then I had this in loop. I think it was Lucas oil stadium in Indianapolis. They did actually respond. But that was from the capital improvement board for Marion County, Indiana. And they said, quote, we can confirm Missina Turing's announcement that Macklemore will not be performing at the upcoming show. And then they said Lucas oil stadium is a public facility and as such is content neutral, which, you know, I had to follow up and ask about that. And they didn't respond to that, but it's a bit silly when they're sort of barring a performer. But like you said, where I feel like this was especially sort of troubling was in Tampa. They're both owned publicly and it's operated by the Tampa sports authority who did not respond to my request for comment. And that seems to create this sort of complex situation. I don't know exactly what all the contracts are behind the scenes and who gets to control these things. But if it's a publicly owned and operated facility, I mean, does that raise some concerns?

1:29:47It sure does. And so it's interesting that they reached back out to you that Lucas oil stadium said we are content neutral. So that's a legal term of art. So let's mount a little bit. Yeah. So as I said, the first amendment is a constraint on the power of the government to dictate speech, right. It says the government cannot be the arbiter of expression. And so if you have a stadium that is owned by the government, presumably that for us. And so that's why that forum is a public forum in the same way that a public park would be considered a public forum. And that's legally significant. Why is that legally significant? Because in a what's called a traditional public forum.

1:30:48That is owned by the government. Well, the government is permitted to impose constraints on the time, place, and manner of expression. Those constraints. First of all, they have to be reasonable constraints. And those constraints may not be imposed on the basis of content or viewpoint discrimination. Right. So that's what they're saying when Lucas oil stadium says, Lucas oil stadium is content neutral is a very ineligent way of saying we are discriminating on the basis of viewpoint. So constraints may be imposed, but they have to be content neutral. They can't be based on viewpoint discrimination. They have to be narrowly tailored to serve a significant government purpose or a significant government interest. And there are a range of things that are understood to be legitimate or valid significant government interests. Right.

1:31:55They are things like public safety, making sure that school children's educational activities are not disrupted. Right. Making sure that people have access to and from public buildings. Right. These would be considered valid government interests. Now that issue sort of points up the fact that with respect to stadiums in particular, there are frequently events held at stadiums where in the wake of those events, typically sporting events, there are threats to public safety. There are very often extremely foreseeable incidences of boy stressness, you'll always say, after, you know, the super bowl or the Stanley Cup, you know, publicly owned stadiums are not exercising.

1:32:58They're right to impose reasonable constraints on the time place and manner of expression by shutting down the super bowl. Right. In anticipation of what they could reasonably expect to be routiness. I think mom Donnie would be recalled if he tried to stop the next games over public safety concerns. I don't think mom Donnie would ever do such a thing. No, I know they won. Yeah. In any event, it is really important to understand that it is permissible for the government to impose constraints on expression. They have to be reasonable constraints. They have to be content neutral, right. Not discriminating on the basis of viewpoint. They have to be narrowly tailored, meaning they can't just be okay.

1:34:02We're going to shut down everything because we have some concern, some speculative concern that like maybe there's going to be some rowdy behavior. And finally, and critically, those constraints have to leave open what are called ample alternative channels of communication. Right. So absolutely canceling a performance would not leave open ample alternative channels of communication. Right. Yeah. It's not clear what the public interest is in this case, because you know, there are exceptions. There are things that fall outside the zone of First Amendment protections and their things like fighting words, you know, hate speech, true threats. But it's very clear that criticism of Israel support for Palestine solidarity with Palestine. Those things are not hate speech, right. Criticism of the political ideology of Zionism.

1:35:05These are not instances of anti-Semitic hate speech, right. Yeah. And so it's, you know, however offensive Robert Kraft or anyone else might find solidarity with Palestine to be. It is not speech of a kind that is exempted from the protections of the First Amendment. So, you know, if again, if there's a private event company or a privately owned stadium that says we don't want to have more play, they're at liberty to do that, right. They can make that decision. Yeah. Well, we can't have or at least what deserves interrogation, what deserves a serious inquiry is a publicly owned government run entity shutting down speech at the behest of a wealthy, powerful individual, not on the basis of needing to impose a reasonable constraint or a reasonable restriction on the time place or

1:36:11manner of expression based on a content neutral analysis that is narrowly tailored to serve some significant government interest while also leaving open ample alternative channels of communication, right. I am concerned about a public stadium bowing to that kind of pressure, particularly in light of the fact that Kanye West can perform freely and Kanye West is pretty openly. Yeah, this is a sort of a not even really a side note, but Kanye West performed multiple times at Raymond James Stadium in Tampa at the end of June. And you know, while the set list FM doesn't say that he performed his song, Kyle Hitler that I guess came out in 2025. It's hard to believe or at sometimes, but it's the open hypocrisy of that is just a sounding.

1:37:15Well, it's never been about anti-Semitism, right. I mean, just as a side side note, there are more Christian Zionists in the United States than there are Jews in the entire world and they are explicitly motivated by explicitly anti-Semitic goals, right. One of which is to create a mass exodus of Jewish people from the so-called, you know, global North. Oh, God. And the other of which is to hasten the apocalypse at which point according to the Christian Zionist eschatology, some Jews will become Christian and remaining Jews will go to go to hell. So this is not and has never been about anti-Semitism. It is about criticism of Israel. It is about solidarity with Palestine. Now, yeah, you know, we're looking at this very sort of niche and narrow issue of what are the implications for the first amendment when we have a municipal owned or a government owned event space.

1:38:29And a performer is prevented from or forbidden from performing in that space clearly on the basis of what would typically be understood to be protected speech. I mean, just to clarify, I'd am not an expert certainly in whatever kinds of leases or contract arrangements. There are between these cities or states and, you know, third party event planning. Yeah, Vinnie's which, you know, if there's enough space in between, you know, the stadium and the decision being made potentially by a private third party, that might initiate some of those first amendment protections. Right. I don't know because I don't know enough of the facts on the ground there. And nevertheless, I think it is really important for us to address ourselves to this question. Am I a Mackelmore fan? I, you know, not particularly. I mean, he's fine.

1:39:41My concern is not with a wealthy and powerful recording artist. My concern is that we look at this situation with Mackelmore. And I think it is obscuring a whole range of threats to free expression for the rest of us. Right. Is anyone going to be real worried about Mackelmore's welfare? No, he's fine to his credit by his own admission. He's not suffering. My concern is not with Mackelmore, not being allowed to play a show. My concern is with the implications for the rest of us when we're allowing these kinds of incursions into first amendment protections. And I think this is such an interesting case because the fact that it's Mackelmore is actually functioning, I think, to camouflage what those threats are. Right. Because we're also focused on the fact that it's this wealthy, powerful guy that we're missing the fact that the first amendment can't be mobilized to protect his free expression.

1:41:03How else might we see these end runs around constitutional protections for the rest of us. I think there are a lot of things that are protected by the first amendment that aren't necessarily legible to us as first amendment protected beliefs, associations or activities. Right. Because we often will think about things that are first amendment protected as being like the right to go to a particular kind of religious institution or the right to go to a protest. Right. Right. But a lot of the most important first amendment case law deals with things like our multiple adolescents allowed to hang out on the public sidewalk together without getting arrested. Right. Does it constitute probable cause of unlawful conduct for there to be more than two black children hanging out together on the stoop. Yeah. Right. That's not the kind of first amendment protected activity that most people think about. It's not the top of mind when you say first amendment.

1:42:20Right. I think people are thinking about, you know, people like marching against the war and Vietnam. Yeah. But we do many things every day that are protected by the first amendment, not just, you know, posting on the internet. Not just, you know, having privacy with respect to who we're calling, right, being permitted to make phone calls and anyone we want. Like a birthday party is a first amendment protected gathering, right. Our right to assemble our right to free association. Right. And so having an incursion into those protections, any incursion into those protections has implications for all of those other things. And if we stop paying attention and we say, oh, this is sort of a punchline right on Maccala more is being canceled by the rich right wing stadium owners.

1:43:26And we don't look at the fact that there is a public performance that is being canceled by potentially the government. We're missing a whole range of risks because what's that stake is not macklemore's career. What's that stake is the ability of all of the rest of us to freely associate to petition the government to believe the things that we believe. Without being censored, without being punished for doing so. One of the other things that deserves to be said here is one of the reasons that this is a little bit confusing and that the waters are so muddied.

1:44:33Is this issue that I referred to a minute ago with respect to these publicly owned stadiums leasing out digital authority to these third party companies, right. Yeah, our private and which are as non government entities are not subject to the constraints of the first amendment. That's not a problem with the first amendment. That's a problem with the privatization of public life. Yeah. And I think we're seeing that in a lot of other realms as well. So for example, as we see traditional government functions being more and more assumed by private utilities, we have a situation where what you know 40 years ago might have been. People petitioning the government not to build a pipeline right that would have been a first amendment protected gather right we might have a protest at a government building that would be protected by the first amendment.

1:45:43Now if you have a group of people who want to protest for example, a pipeline that whole process beginning to end may be so controlled by a private corporation that there's no government building to protest that anymore right. And so what would otherwise been a first amendment protected protest is now a bunch of trespassing charges. Yeah. Right because the place that people are going to do that protest to carry out that protest may be private property right. Yeah. You know, we're no longer petitioning the government. Now we're petitioning, you know, energy transfer partners. This sort of you know raises this question on the one hand I'm like, oh, I'm not as worried about you know Robert Kraft getting to say, oh, Maclumur is not welcome at Gillette Stadium. I'm thinking about the ways in which he's able to use his wealth and capital to sort of manipulate the situation with government entities or call on his NFL buddies to kick them out in other places.

1:46:51But there is also a consideration of around the concentration of wealth and the ways in which privatization is rapidly happening in various different instances across the country. And at what point do you see the shrinking of the public square just generally across the board and the ways in which billionaires are unable to control the narrative through that ownership. Yeah. I think one of the other things that is worth pointing out is a lot of times when we're talking about first amendment retaliation or, you know, what we're seeing here right where where you see an organization public or private engage in this kind of really obvious censorship on the basis of viewpoint. And I think that usually do not see the kind of smoking gun, but you know, the putting it in an email and saying, yeah, I don't want to see this individual being allowed to perform for the following reason, which is that he expressed solidarity with Palestine, right.

1:48:02We usually see at least a little bit more well, usually we don't have a smoking gun email. And we're talking to the press about it like, yeah. And I think that one of the things that's actually unusual about this situation is that maybe just due to wealth and power rubber craft didn't have any compunction or concern about very publicly saying I don't want this to happen because I am offended personally by the political content of his speech. And I would say, you know, typically people who are at least in government who have the kind of power no better than to say the quiet part out loud. Yeah. And I think it's sort of interesting. I guess just that the the billionaire class has become so comfortable. Yeah. With their own strength, I guess, that they're not concerned about being publicly very honest about their desire to censor certain people.

1:49:09And so, you know, in this instance, it may actually be an interesting opportunity, just because some of these stadiums are publicly owned. And so to the extent that those stadiums can be shown to have canceled the show under pressure from this private actor. And on the basis of that private actors, sort of personal convictions, it does create an interesting opportunity. You had said something about not being clear on what the leases were and the, you know, the arrangements and contracts. And I am also not clear on what those contracts are, how they might implicate first amendment concerns or undermine first amendment rights. But if there were to be, for example, a lawsuit filed about it, some of that stuff would come out in discovery in the process of turning over evidence. And so, yeah, if nothing else, I kind of hope that, you know, one of the impact litigation outfits does file a suit, not because I am concerned about vindicating Mackelmore's first amendment rights.

1:50:26But because I think we need to really be vigilant and alert to the actual legal mechanisms by which the government is performing an end run around constraints on state power. To wrap this episode up, I just wanted to highlight again, although it may feel a bit silly to talk about all this in the context of Mackelmore, a multi-millionaire. I think the point is that this sets a bad precedent. Notably, we've witnessed crackdowns on university students over Palestine solidarity protests. There was a new ruling against a student from the University of Texas Austin just last week. There may still be open questions about these stadiums and their complicated contract arrangements, but either way, the wealthier wielding influence over the public square with all that said, here is Mo with one final note. I would just like your listeners to be alert to all of the ways in which our daily lives are frankly made possible by first amendment protections that we don't think about very often.

1:51:38And I would like to plug the concept and the practice of not talking to law enforcement until you have had an opportunity to consult with council. Yeah, always good. Hello and welcome to it could happen here. My name is Kim Kelly and I'll be your host for today's episode to introduce myself. I'm a labor journalist. I'm the author of a book called Fight Like Hell, the Untold History of American Labor and a third generation union members based in Philly. Obviously, it go birds. And I'm just over the moon to be back here in the cool zone. Shout out to Sophie, Robert, James, and everyone else for letting me cool-layed man my way onto their network now and again to catch you up on what's been happening in the labor movement in the US and otherwise.

1:52:40If you've been paying attention, you'll already know September was a very busy month. But if you haven't, well, that's what I'm here for. So let's start off with some good news and look, I'll throw you a bone. Here's a quick one for the gamers in a big dub protect organizing 1900 video game workers and Activision Blizzard have just won their first union contract. Hell yeah, the workers at the company have been organizing in various ways since 2021, but they formally unionized with the communication workers of America in 2024. So it's been a long time coming. This shiny new contract includes a lot of good stuff. They got protections for remote workers, huge for the tech world and against outsourcing. They got some language around AI development. They got a three day end office hybrid work week, which, damn, I feel like the four day work week is still a huge pipe dream. These guys are out here doing three.

1:53:41You need a good, you know, and they even got Mayday off as a paid holiday. It's really great work all around. You love to see it. May 1000 more tech worker unions bloom. Speaking of contracts, this is a big one. 800 Walmart workers at a distribution center in Mrs. Saoge Ontario, Canada have just won that company's first ever union contract in North America. Now Walmart has long been the labor movements white whale. It's one of the largest employers in the world is run by evil Arkansas billionaires who hate unions. It's workers regularly make the news for the despicable low wages that those rich people pay them. But organizers in the US have yet to crack the retail giant and look it's not for lack of trying. In the past, Walmart has simply shut down stores who have tried to unionize. For example, back in the year 2000, which is so much further away than it really feels like it should be back in the year 2000.

1:54:47After meat cutters at a Texas location voter to unionize the company eliminated its entire meat department in Texas and in five other states for good measure. I'm thinking about it. I don't think we even meet department in South Philly. Imagine cutting out an entire section of your store of your enormous nationwide retail chain because a handful of workers in one place were like, hey, what if you treated us a little better? It's petty and it's cruel and it's very unbrand for Walmart. Folks are understandably very excited to see workers in Canada sticking it to them. And when the Ontario Union Drive went public two years ago, of course, Walmart rushed to punish those workers and did its damnedest to bust their union drive. But importantly, this time, those union-busting efforts failed. So we can only assume that the Walton clan is hopping mad about the whole situation. Again, love to see it.

1:55:52And honestly, now that our Canadian counterparts have notched this major win, I'm really curious to see what kind of organizing efforts we might see here in the US. I mean, when Amazon workers in Staten Island unionized, they set off a little chain reaction when Starbucks workers in Buffalo unionized, they set off a big chain reaction. You know, these guys are over the border, but it's only a few hundred miles from New York. It's not that far. Could this contract in Ontario be the beginning of a domino effect? Are we finally going to unionize Walmart? Look, it would take a lot of doing, but you know, someone's going to be the first and now that someone's proved it can be done. Look, I'm just saying a girl can dream. Speaking of New York, a couple hundred miles south in New York state caregivers with the state's consumer directed personal assistance program have filed for a union election with lemon 99 SCIU.

1:56:56CDPAP is a Medicaid program that allows folks who are eligible for home care services to train and choose and hire their own in home caregivers, which can include family members and friends. So it's always exciting when we see overworked underpaid workers organizing and fighting for better, but the sheer scale of this particular union drive is honestly incredible. And it's legit historic nearly 70,000 caregivers have already signed union cards signifying that they're down to join the union. And if they're successful, if the union drive is successful, the union would include almost a hundred and 90,000 workers across the state. This would be the largest union election in US history, like all of US history. And it's being led by workers whose labor is deeply undervalued and rendered almost invisible to those outside the walls of their unique workplaces, which they're not working in a factory.

1:58:01They're not working in a store, they're not in a retail setting. These are workers who are completely atomized, isolated working people's homes. The fact that they've been able to organize an effort. This scale is just, it's so impressive and it's long overdue. You know, prior to this, the records for the largest election in modern US history happened in 1999. When about 74,000 L.A. County home care workers voted to form a union with SCIU. Sound familiar? Nearly 30 years later, these caregivers in New York are following in those footsteps. As the union noted, the filing comes at a fraught moment for care in America. Medicaid funded services, faced devastating federal cuts enacted under the Trump administration, which has villainized this workforce with this waste fraud abuse campaign. At the same time, the nation's rapidly aging population is driving growing demand for care, as they wrote in a press release.

1:59:07For many people, this specific program can be a lifeline. The difference between the senior loved one left to loneliness and neglects or to having them be cared for in their own homes by people they trust will love and advocate for them. The difference is really stark, but don't take it from me. The union shared a few worker and client testimonies with me and I want to share them with you now. So, when first quote comes from a worker, Angela Jimenez, who was a full-time healthcare worker and 1199 SCIU member before she left to join the CDPAP program to care for her mom. So Angela says, I love taking care of my mother, but love doesn't pay the bills. Rent, groceries, and healthcare keep going up while our wages aren't keeping pace. Care is essential work, but the way we're paid doesn't treat it that way. Caregivers like me shouldn't have to struggle to survive. I'm joining with caregivers across New York because together we had the power to demand what this work is worth and make sure we can afford to keep doing it.

2:00:15So, Lebi Young, who works as a caregiver for her 79-year-old mother and Alzheimer's patient, says, I need a community, I need a pay rise. A labor of love is still labor. And 68-year-old Dominique LaRouche is a former caregiver herself who was a proud union delegate for 1199 when she was younger. Now, her daughters care for her through the CDPAP program. She says, my daughters help me get out of bed in the morning, help me get dressed and brush my hair, and help me cook meals from our culture that I enjoy eating. What they really give me is the chance to live my life. Because of my daughters, I can see the people I love, be part of my community, and experience the world around me. CDPAP has given our family safety, dignity, and peace of mind. That's why I'm proud to stand with my daughters and thousands of other CDPAP caregivers as they come together to join 1199 SEIU.

2:01:17So, an election day has not yet been set under Trump, the NLRB remains a clusterfuck. But here's hoping we get some more good news on this soon. I don't know about you, but I feel like the working class could really use a win and an historic union win. I don't feel pretty good right about now. I'm speaking of caregiving. I once again, I've got to shout out National Nurses United, the largest you need to register nurses in the US for continuing to just be incredibly based. This time, they're leading a week of action against Peter Teel's data-gobbling Surveillance Demons at Palantir. The tech company has happily and profitably provided technology to ICE, to surveil and target immigrants in the US, and to Israel's Ministry of Defense to use in its ongoing genocide of Palestinians and Gaza. As Truth Out reported, the union is pushing public institutions, including hospitals and other healthcare providers, to end contracts and partnerships with Palantir, to divest from the company.

2:02:22Unlike many people in power in an outside-the-labor movement, NNU has not been shy about speaking out against these atrocities. In August, they called out Israel's bombing of hospitals, schools, and public infrastructure. And their executive director, Kunit Maharaj, said plainly that, quote, the intentional bombing of hospitals, schools, and public infrastructure necessary for basic living are war crimes against humanity. The Israeli government must be held accountable for these atrocities, and the genocide must stop. Nurses and caregivers truly are the best of us, man. Now, hold that thought, we'll take a quick little ad rate. Hello again. You're still listening to it can happen here, and I'm still Kim Kelly. Now that we've started off with a little treat, let's get into some of the bad news that came crawling out of the labor world this past month.

2:03:26So you know how oil has gotten really expensive because of the US slash Israel's fun new forever war in Iran? Well, when oil is available, someone's got to get it from point A to point B. And I don't know about you, but I think it's probably for the best that those some ones working additions are safe and stable and decently paid, so they don't have to go drive for door to ash when they're not navigating huge tankers full of toxic and economically invaluable fossil fuels. You know, seems like common sense. Given all that and the inherent volatility of the job, we also probably want them to be protected by good union contract, right? That's what deck officers at Alaska tanker company and overseas ship holding group thought to, which is why an overwhelming percentage of them chose to unionize with the international organization of masters, mates and pilots back in 2024. And the quick aside, I've been to a lot of union halls, but the MMP union hall is definitely one of the coolest.

2:04:28They have so many model ships like more than you can ever imagine, but anyway, so the mates voted to unionize. Then LRB ordered their employees to recognize the union and start bargaining and then radio silence. It's been two years and these workers are still without a first contract. As the union noted, their fight now reflects the same first contract crisis, CNN, Amazon, Starbucks and other major employers. Corporations drag in their feet, knowing they're supposed to be bargaining, knowing that they should be treating their workers with respect. It's like the same old story, it just keeps repeating and repeating repeating in different industries and in different areas. And it's like we can see you, we can see you doing this, being a bad boss, being a union buster, dragging out these union contracts is not a good look. And the employees are not going to just sit there and take it. In the case these deck officers and the masters, mates and pilot union, they pointed out that the company's subsidiaries also receive millions of dollars in federal subsidies.

2:05:35And said pretty plainly that, quote, companies benefiting from taxpayer support should not be permitted to violate federal labor laws while denying basic bargaining rights to the American mariners risking their lives at sea. Now that latter point is important because like again, this bizarre war that we've become trapped within, that impacts them pretty significantly. Word recently broke that an Iranian military official identified one of these companies overseas ship holding group as a candidate for potential retaliatory measures, which is not what you want to hear when you're a person who works on an oil tanker. That's not like good. It's frankly terrifying, especially given how hard the US military is fucking up this entire thing. So look, while we're still a little ways away from transitioning to renewable energy while we're still dependent on oil, we have the world we have right now.

2:06:38The folks who are working on these oil tankers and risking their lives so people can drive five minutes down the street to go to a target. Like let's take care of them. Let's help them out. The mates are asking folks to sign their petition that they have calling on the companies to stop stalling and start bargaining. So please sign their petition. We'll drop it in the show notes for you. So unfortunately, there really is never any shortage of stories about which people being evil to workers. But the big ban villain of this past week or so comes from a rather unlikely source on September 23rd. Journalist America Foggy published a blockbuster story for documented New York titled, say, Zah, I love so on, dismantles unions. Why is he now creating them that you truly need to go read because it is just wild. And before we get into it, I want to make sure we're all on the same page. So we're going to take a minute to talk about union rates.

2:07:40So generally speaking, unions are supposed to play nice together. What with their shared history and stated goals and the whole solidarity thing. And a part of that is agreeing not to try and steal another union's members doing so is called rating and it's a very unskill move. Back in the battle days unions went to war over stuff like that and things got real bloody. Now it's technically legal, but it's still very much frowned upon. There's a little less dynamite involved, but still not a good look. So given all the risks, why would a union bother trying to go rating? Why would they try and go to a union as workplace and try to displace the union that was there before them and swoop in and take their members? Seems like a weird thing to do, no? Well, it usually comes down to math. More members means more dues money and more money plus bigger membership means more power politically and otherwise.

2:08:43Sometimes though, the math falls apart and things seem to turn upside down. In the case of Cesar Ellerslom, it seems like he's purely in it for the love of the game. And that game for him is union-busting. As Gafagi uncovered, Ellerslom has had a long career in quote unquote union avoidance. A sanitized term that consultants and their clients like to try to make their slimy actions seem a little less contemptible. It's a union avoidance consultants job to persuade workers not to unionize. When you hear about captive audience meetings and things like that, these are the people that are parachuting into workplaces to try and convince workers that unions are actually a bad thing. That's their whole job. It's a very lucrative business that rakes in about $1.5 billion a year from anxious anti-union employers who somehow have not realized that they could simply pay the workers the wage increases that they're probably going to be looking for in their first union contract and save a bunch of dough.

2:09:47You know, captives of industry are not necessarily renowned for their adherence to logic and empathy. So that's where the union avoidance consultant comes in. With that kind of background, why then did Ellerslom walk into a Golden Crossed Manufacturing Plan in the Bronx, identify himself as a representative for progressive workers of the world local 3-1-1 and start trying to convince the workers there. Who are already unionized with IBW local union 1-4-3-0 to join his group instead. And how many times has he apparently done this before? Look, you'll need to read the whole article to find out, but it includes a whole lot of twists and turns. There's corruption, there's family drama, there's union buster on union buster in fighting, there are mafia ties. Donald Trump's hatred of unions and workers comes into play. The phrase, that's just paperwork that has nothing to do with me.

2:10:48There's a lot of heavy lifting. The whole sorted tale shows just how low employers and their anti-union goons will stoop to assure that workers are kept underpaid, overworked and unrepresented. And tell me you got to read this thing, shout out to a mere hero's. Now let's take a minute to collect ourselves before we head into our next tale of work, wins and woe. Alright, so we got some good news. We got some bad news. And now I'm going to leave you with some news that's neither wholly good nor wholly bad, but definitely something to keep an eye on. But first, a rumor. I love gossip, and I'm always down to investigate a nice juicy transportation strike rumor. This one's been flying around for the past little while, but I'm pretty sure it's a non-starter.

2:11:51And in a classic case of social media not actually being real life, I know I'm shocked too. News began to spread a few weeks ago on Instagram, TikTok and Reddit that truckers were planning a strike for October 1st to protest skyrocketing diesel prices. There's even a goofy AI flyer out there calling on drivers to, quote, park it, stand together, make our voices heard. If a large-scale trucking strike or even a partial disruption were to actually happen, it could have a massive impact and grind the entire economy to a standstill. Transportation logistics workers holding incredible amount of power, which is of course why so many of them are forbidden from striking under the railway labor act. Truckers, many of whom are independent contractors or members of established unions like the teamsters, don't fall under the act, and theoretically could engage in labor action if they wanted to. They just haven't done it yet. I've got to say though, if a potentially paradigm-shifting nationwide strike was actually in the works, chances are that Facebook wouldn't be the first place you'd hear about it.

2:12:58Remember when Joe Biden killed off the real worker strike before it even had a chance to start? The corporate media was flooded for weeks with stories and statements justifying that debacle, and inadvertently showed how powerful that kind of action could be. This might not be legit. I would be really surprised if we saw any kind of strike activity, workstoppage activity on October 1st, but you know, that's not to say we'll never see it much to consider. Speaking of transportation and union busting, for our last story of the episode, it's time to get into the zone, auto zone, where workers at a location in white planes in New York just won their union. Hell yeah, 11 workers at this small but mighty shop will join UIW Local 259, making them the first store at the country's largest auto parts retailer to successfully organize.

2:14:01Auto zone execs are not thrilled about the development, and they actually wasted over $200,000 trying to keep it from happening. That's right, tried to bust the union. They hauled out all the classic tactics. Captivonius meetings, remember the whole union voice thing we just talked about? That's them. In addition to this, they're Van Lenz, threats of discipline and retaliation for supporting the union, and they also got a little funky with it by flying in 17 different managers from Memphis, from Indiana, California, Florida, to lurk around the stores, push anti-union propaganda on the workers, and keep an eye on their conversations. Honestly, this brings to mind the scenes at the first union drive back in Buffalo at Starbucks when there was just a flood of managers and execs wandering around the stores, like trying to mop and get an underfoot because they were terrified of the thought of having to bargain with their workers.

2:15:04Aside now, it's still Starbucks. We are boycotting Starbucks until Starbucks Workers United gets their first contract. Make your coffee at home or buy it from a union shop. Just not Starbucks. But back to the zone. This isn't the first time auto zone execs have locked in to crush a union drive either. Back in the early 90s, the teamsters tried to organize one of their distribution centers, but were unsuccessful. Even though the union drive failed, the NLRB still dinged the company for its unlawful conduct during their union bustings free. I guess old habits die hard because this time around, according to Nathan De Kong, a parts equipment manager, auto zone was trying to do everything possible to destroy us, to destroy our union. It was a show of force to intimidate us to make sure we don't even think about talking about the union. That's why you told the chief a really great labor publication that you should also read, who did a great story on the whole situation.

2:16:05The workers' voters unionized anyway, a historic win that auto zone celebrated by promptly firing De Kong, who was the primary leader of the union drive. The company insisted that he was a supervisor and therefore ineligible for the union, which De Kong disputes. He says that he did not have firing, hiring or discipling power, but did try to remedy before the vote by refiling the union petition. Didn't work. The day that it went public, the manager who fired De Kong told him very bluntly that his support for the union was why he was being asked. Quote, despite repeating instruction, not to advocate for the union, you continue to participate and or facilitate union activity at the store. The heart. The chief also reports that days after auto zone fired De Kong, management fired a supervisor at the store for, quote, failing to stop the union. It's just, ah, just ridiculous, you know, like the whole situation, like, fuck it, relax.

2:17:10Like, don't forget, you got to give some workers a race. 11 workers, you got to deal with, like, grow up. But since then, labor is rallied around De Kong. I'm so sorry if I'm saying your name incorrectly, too, Nathan. Let me know if I fucked it up and I owe you a drink. I'm going to go fund me has been created to support him and other fired workers is raised about 13 grand so far phenomenal. Gonna need more because he's going to be a long fight. So we'll pop them the show now so you can add to that number. Let's get it up as high as we can. This is a developing story, but it's really been hardening to see how much love De Kong and his co-workers have been getting. And it makes sense. His union organizing story is very modern and very relatable and very New York. He's gotten support from artists and director Boots Riley, whose latest film, I love Boosters, De Kong cited as a direct influence on his decision to try to organize, which is so cute and so timely.

2:18:12Like, damn, I don't just came out. His great movie, you should go see it. And, you know, maybe he'll get some ideas. On the organizing side, he also got an early boost from the emergency workplace organizing committee. Great project that you should look up if you are you curious. Now, he connected with them through his work as a volunteer field lead for now mayor, Zor Mondani, successful campaign. It just goes to show there are a million ways to get started in organizing. And a boost Riley movie marathon might not be a bad way to start. After De Kong and the UAW, they're not back in town. As he told the chief, anybody who's interested in forming union at their auto zone, we want anybody interested in that to reach out to us. Their union busting certainly works, but not well enough. Boom! How you do not want to support that dude? That's it for me. Thank you so much for tuning in. And if any of this has caught your interest, you want to do some more reading, you want to dig into it,

2:19:14you want to talk to your coworkers a little bit. Then my job here is done. Until next time. This is it could happen here executive disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world and what this means for you. I'm Garrison Davis, today I'm joined by Robert Evans and special correspondent Bridget Todd. Welcome. Thanks so much for having me. Excited to talk through some of the worst stuff imaginable with you fine folks. Yeah, it is it is a hard week. This week that we are covering is September 23rd to September 30th. I'll start with a few shorter news stories that I think our little panel here might find interesting. On Tuesday, Donald Trump, the president, launched America.gov, a website to host an AI chatbot that pulls information from across the multitude of federal government websites.

2:20:21America.gov in this little chatbot probably deserves its own focus in a future episode. But also on Tuesday, Trump signed an executive order to rename artificial intelligence to super intelligence after running polls on social media for the past week. And he also met with the heads of six tech companies to sign the quote White House accord on super intelligence, which essentially promotes self regulation in the AI industry. Speaking of super intelligence under Trump's signature on this document, the United States is written as the United States. Excellent work there. This document was also signed by Sundar Fachai, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Cajunson, Huang of Nivitya, Greg Brockman of OpenAI and and Thropics Dario on the day. Does anyone have any notes on this little chatbot or super intelligence they'd like to add?

2:21:22Not really. I mean, what is there to say? We can just move on. Yeah. Now Dario's inclusion in the White House Accords is a little funny because earlier this week, a memo circulating the White House named Dario as a leading figure in the cultish effective altruism movement, which according to the memo is responsible for the AI doom-apanic threatening technological innovation and national security. Robert, if you've not seen this memo, that document cloud link has it there. You should take a look. It's pretty funny. Oh, yes. No, yes. I have seen this. Yes. The memo covers and Thropics ties to effective altruism and identified effective altruism as a quote heavily male white non-religious politically left or center left and usually vegan or vegetarian. I love that they throw in their diet. Fick a little detail. And I don't even fully agree with that statement, but okay. This memo tracks the quote AI doom-apypline back to effective altruism, consequentialism and long termism based on effective altruisms quote, impartial maximization.

2:22:32Do the most good wherever and whenever it occurs. Extend the calculation into the far future through long termism, and treat you in extinction as the loss of potentially enormous future value. And I'm also talking about shrimp consciousness, speech, reality and killing babies pulling from a variety of effective altruism like thought experiments and writing. Yeah. Yeah. This is why I don't really agree with calling them a left or a center left or at least there's elements of that, but there's elements of like classic far right like eugenic thought. And this document even notes that. It's talking about some of the stuff singers said about disabled kids and the like, but they're leaving out. It's interesting to me that this seems to I haven't done like a deep dive, but at least from what I remember and from what I'm looking over now, it does not seem to be mentioning Nick Bostrom. He's like the guy who is generally considered the father of long termism within the EA subculture and is also like the biggest eugenicist within like the prominent chunk of that that movement.

2:23:32Yeah, I mean, it makes sense that the Trump allies might not be talking about those aspects of EA. Yeah. But yeah. But I like a lot of this memo does focus on anthropic and amade because the government's been beefing with with anthropic for months, especially following the Iran war and statements that anthropic is made about military use of their technology, which is led to the war department publicly attacking and anthropic and as of last week, effective altruism itself in a series of posts, what a time to be alive. Quote Americanism not effective altruism. Yeah, the United States will continue to be AI dominant. We're this close to Pete Higgseth talking about a la's birthday gangbang as a matter of national security and I for one and ready for this glorious day to come. Oh man, dark time line. I want the younger listeners or anyone who's like, you remember like hanging out at parties in your early 20s with some like absolute dipshits. Now imagine the president is like getting really angry at those dipshits and like you hate them, but he's not angry at them for a good reason.

2:24:44This is like for those of us who've been following the EA movement for you. That's a good analogy. Well, these guys suck, but not for these reasons. The post that they put out, it's clearly AI generated. Oh, got it. Yeah. You know, you should see it. One of them, it almost looks like a really bad over the top AI generated flyer for like a theme night at a nightclub. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's pulling from a bunch. I mean, the whole war department feed right now pulls from a whole bunch of like what I call downstream from telegram aesthetics. Yeah. And I think these follow that also. These are all descended from like the white boys summer aesthetics we were seeing for five years ago, which of course is pulling from kind of like nightlife aesthetics as well. Yeah. It's a really horrible mix of things. It's a ruberos. Another post from the Department of War. The United States will never be an effective altruist country. I agree. Pretty cool.

2:25:44There he's right. He's right. Pretty cool. Moving on about a week after Pennsylvania Senator John Vetterman sent a little video to the Republican midterm convention. The intercept reported that Federerman has been fundraising using GOP email lists with campaign fundraising emails coming from the address quote info at GOP squad dot com. Now, one of these GOP linked fundraising emails said it was from friend of the pod James his favorite senator, Mike Lee, who wrote in this email quote friend. I just got an email from John. He's basically a Republican now. I need your help to draft him sign here unquote and then there's John Federerman, you know, campaign insignias below this this little email chain. So cool stuff there. Two great tastes to go great together. Federerman and Mike Lee. And while speaking at the Texas Tribune festival this past Sunday, Federerman did a little Freudian slip. Let's take a lesson.

2:26:46Hindi from Dallas and they ask why not become an independent. Because I'm a lifelong Republican Democrat. Every time every time it's funny. That's a moment right there. That's clipable ladies and gentlemen circulate. Go go go Internet spin wildly wildly spin Internet. I guarantee you that's going to break through that'll get that'll get clipped. Yeah, I'm a lifelong Democrat though. You're not spinning. He just said he was a Republican. There's no spin to do. Yeah, that'll get clipped doing my part, I guess. Yeah, man, that's that. I just love the like out. They're going to take this out of context. No, the context was you called yourself a Republican man. Like, yeah, it was a slip up, but it's like no one's taking it out of context. Like you said it. You just said that. Speaking of our totally cool Congress, Palantir was named as a quote top supporter of the Congressional Black Caucus at their annual charitable gala this month with Palantir's name plastered on tables at the event and a big thank you banner in the convention center.

2:27:59The Congressional Hispanic Caucus has very publicly returned donations from Palantir. Yeah, I was at the CBC here. Really Washington DC. Yeah, that was I wasn't my faith, you know, you and you went into the building. There was this image that was like a orange image of the late Shirley Chisholm who is one of my idols. My true. The truth is awesome. She's awesome. Unbought none boss. She was the first black woman elected to Congress. It's her picture with Palantir. That's a picture of Palantir's branding on her image. That's fucked up. That's. That was like getting kicked into nuts right when I went in and you know, I just I can't imagine that anything about what Palantir is doing Chisholm would have been down for no. Yeah, it was it was not my faith. For some positive Shirley Chisholm representation though, if you watch the relatively new history of the world by Mel Brooks TV show that was on I think Hulu, I forget which streaming platform Shirley Chisholm plays a plays a major role in it.

2:29:02It's it's a loving tribute. I need a palette cleanser. I might have to watch that tonight. Yeah, it's not bad actually. In a statement to Huff post Palantir said they're quote proud and honored to support the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation's mission of creating pathways for promising young people to enter public service who may not have the networks or financial media. So I have the networks or financial means to do so without support unquote. Basically, we want to own them. Yeah. Surveil them, track them, get them into our databases. I mean, and you can't you can't fault some of these guys who are in their 80s and 90s who don't really know what Palantir is necessarily by you can't fault them. Of course, mean you should be faulting them. They shouldn't be in office. They should they should the two old. The former chair and current influential member of the Congressional Black Caucus, 86, who are old Jim Clyburn recently told box that he only learned what chat GPT was earlier this summer. I think I'm too old to be an elected leader now because when people bring up like Tik Toker influencers, I just black out and find myself holding a gun these days. So like I can't imagine being 80 and trying to keep up with this shit.

2:30:03You don't think of yourself as an influencer at all, Robert? Of course. I make media. That was a range made question and you felt for it, my friend. I would probably do a makeup tutorial some blue sky. I could do that. Yeah. Paint dazzle camouflage on your face. Anyway, sorry, Gary. Well, with just a little over a month left until the midterms, the federal government has begun airing pro Trump television ads paid for by US taxpayers. These are for all intents and purposes. Republican campaign ads paid for by you. There's at least three different ads in circulation and one of them a single black and white shot of Trump walking down a hallway with a voice over talking about, quote, a final battle with you by my side to demolish the deep state globalists and war mongers. And if that little class part sounds a bit outdated, that's because this was literally a Trump 2024 campaign ad.

2:31:05But with one important change, the on screen text at the end of the ad reads paid for by the US government, unquote. This ad is played during sports games and on Fox News. Another one of these Trump ads, during on TV is edited in the form of like a hype video with like quick flashing images on screen with text reading largest tax cuts in history, reigniting American manufacturing and defend law and order and police too many ads. So as images of Trump and these little phrases flash on screen, the song Love Me by JMSM plays in the background. Let's take a listen together. We will defeat communism socialism and Marxism in America America will never be a communist country. Oh God.

2:32:13Paid for by the US government. Yeah, that's that's should be illegal probably is illegal adding this to the ever expanding bucket of um, is that legal? How are they allowed to do that? Now the White House has defended these federally funded, but clearly part is an ads to influence the midterms by calling them public service announcements akin to Biden's PSA's about the COVID-19 vaccines. Are you fucking kidding me? Dear man, public service announcements about how our great leader is perfect and can do no wrong love me love me to quote the White House. The announcements are very clearly not campaign ads. President Trump is not on the ballot and there is no call to action. Instead, the announcements are a reminder for Americans to love their country and know why it's worth defending at home at the border and abroad. That's not what they were singing love me to. They were seeing love me to be images of Donald Trump with his arms wide open like the fucking Jesus at Rio like it's wild.

2:33:20It's it's it's bad. I don't like this. Yeah. A few other kind of election related points I want to hit. Last Thursday, the California Supreme Court ruled that Sheriff Chad Bianco violated state election law by seizing 650,000 ballots for the Prop 50 special election on redistricting as a part of his quote unquote election fraud investigation. I think it's worth noting that emails leaked in 2021 revealed that sheriff Chad Bianco was a dues paying member of the Oathkeepers since at least 2014. And in a debate earlier this year during the sheriff's unsuccessful bid to be the Republican nominee for governor Bianco said he was proud of his affiliation with the Oathkeepers. You're a Northkeeper. We all know that. And I'm very proud of it. I'm very proud of it. And everybody that wants to like again lie and emotionally get all spun up about the Oathkeeper organization.

2:34:22I just would before you do that and I know none of you have. I want you to go read the mission statement of the Oathkeeper mission statement and I saw them on CNN attacking the Capitol and the ACLU. I saw a politician molesting kids. Does that mean you molest kids? What? Exactly. Really compelling stuff from sheriff, Oathkeeper. But this whole story gives us an interesting look into possible election interference done on like a county level with judge sheriffs just seizing huge swaths of ballots try to invalidate as many as they can after an election based on vague allegations of quote discrepancies in the count. But now going forward at least in California, there will be protections against this tactic. You know, you said that it was found that he did this and that he violated state election law. Will he be facing any consequences? It doesn't look like he'll be facing consequences now. He has the ballots will be returned and destroyed.

2:35:22But no, his this is not going to result in anything for him personally. He just can't continue his investigation. Oh speaking of allegations of election fraud. Earlier this summer, Trump and DHS Secretary Mark Wain Mullin claimed they had uncovered hundreds of thousands of non citizens who were registered to vote. And we didn't report on these claims in depth because the White House provided no evidence for these extraordinary claims. But in communications to stay election officials following this big public announcement, the Trump admin already began to deemphasize the certainty of these large figures. Nevada was first told by DHS that they had as many as 15,903 non citizens on their voter rolls. But in a meeting between state officials and DHS last month, DHS said that that number might not be totally accurate because each voter had not yet been manually reviewed.

2:36:24And the true number may be closer to 185 voters. After this meeting, DHS emailed Nevada officials clarifying quote, we did not reduce the 15,903 to 185. We've manually reviewed some of the 15,903 and confirmed 185 are not US citizens. So still keeping open the possibility that there could be upwards of 16,000 non citizens on the voter rolls, which have been flagged. But then DHS themselves narrowed that down to at least 185 confirmed cases. So after this, state officials then checked those 185 alleged non citizen voters and found that every single one was actually a US citizen. In a letter obtained by the New York Times through an open records request, the Deputy Attorney General in Nevada, Grey Goat, wrote to DHS. As for the 185 individuals, our records indicate that they were citizens.

2:37:26You have provided nothing of substance to suggest otherwise. Nevada Secretary of State said in a statement quote, Our records do not support DHS's claims and DHS has still not provided evidence to change that. Instead, DHS officials continue their attempts to intimidate election officials into compliance and deter voters with huge claims of fraud with no evidence. Repeating unsupported claims does not make them true. Unquote. All of this relates to our first main stories episode. On September 25th, the Supreme Court ruled six three on ideological lines to allow the Trump administration to use a janky citizenship database from DHS to purge voter rolls. Though the worst potential effects of this will be delayed until after the midterms. Now, we've talked before about the ongoing legal battles over Trump's attempts to restrict mail and voting. This new shadow-dock at ruling centers on the implementation of the other half of Trump's March 2025 executive order to quote,

2:38:29Protect the integrity of American elections. The creation of a new list of verified U.S. citizen voters. After Trump signed the election integrity order last year, DHS began to expand something called the save database so that it could be used to verify large batches of voters. Specifically, voting rights organizations sued and a district court blocked the order, finding that the overhauled save program, quote, Trampled on the privacy rights of American citizens in a manner that threatens the sacred right to vote. But the Trump administration asked the Supreme Court to stay the district court's ruling. And last week, without a full briefing or a argument, the Supreme Court granted that stay, clearing the way for Trump to implement the new save database. The database was created decades ago to verify the citizenship and immigration status of people applying for public benefits like Medicaid and food stamps. But the newly modified save system incorporates confidential data from the Social Security Administration and allows authorities to conduct bulk searches of multiple individuals at once.

2:39:35Currently 27 U.S. states use the save system to verify voters. And last year, some states began testing the newly modified database, more on that later. In the lawsuit that first prevent to the government from using this newly overhauled database, the plaintiffs alleged that the integration of Social Security Administration data violates multiple privacy protections. And that the use of the data to purge voter rolls risks a reputable harm to voters who are mistakenly removed from the roles due to inaccurate or out of date information in the database. And this part is really crucial because Social Security Administration data does not necessarily reflect someone's current immigration or citizenship status. And SSS data is not just your Social Security number, but also names, dates and places of birth, citizenship indicators, death records, and any information obtained while processing requests for Social Security numbers. So there's a bunch of very, very personal, very private data that gets stored here.

2:40:37It's not just your, you know, however many digit number. So if this new database flags someone or a search comes up inconclusive, voters could be required to take additional affirmative steps to prove their citizenship or naturalization, possibly within a very short time window, or they risk being removed from the voter rolls and unable to exercise their right to vote. In the dissent penned by Justice Jackson, she echoed the concern of the plaintiffs that quote, the staleness of Social Security Administration's citizenship records risked disenfranchising recently naturalized US citizens, unquote. And absolutely, if someone's afraid that they might get into trouble or ice might go after them for registering to vote, even if they are legally allowed to or if that fear prevents them from taking certain actions, that is real and active harm. And this type of stuff isn't just future speculation. According to a pro-publica report from last February, quote, DHS has had to correct information provided to at least five states after save misidentified some voters as non-citizens.

2:41:47In particular, in Texas, one woman had her voter registration revoked without her knowledge, and to where people had to provide proof of citizenship to maintain registered voter status, purge Jackson's dissent. So this can also happen to you and you not know about it. So you can be removed from your voter roll, not actually know necessarily. Maybe they tried to contact you and that just didn't work, that just didn't happen. So then you think that you're registered to vote, but you actually are, which of course then makes you unable to vote. These are all real actual harms, but the majority opinion of the Supreme Court didn't actually consider any of these harms posed to lawful voters, but just focused on the harm that the government could suffer if they weren't allowed to use this new save database and weighing the legality of DHS using what's otherwise protected confidential data from the Social Security administration, which the majority ruled DHS was allowed to do based on the state of the state. So based on the illegal immigration reform and immigrant responsibility act section 1373.

2:42:54And this is the big kind of legal debate regarding is this database actually legal, are they allowed to use this protected data, the district court said no, the dissent says no, the plaintiffs say no, but the federal government and now Supreme Court majority says yes. And I want to get more into kind of the weeds of this legal argument in a future episode, because to quote Jackson, the argument being made by the majority is implausible. And they are very clearly misreading a federal law like that's it's just it's a very plain misreading and interpreting a specific law in a way that no one else has interpreted it before and would fundamentally alter privacy protections in this country and goes directly against the Clinton administration's interpretation of this law as well, but I'll get more into that kind of in a future episode about the various efforts to undermine elections going into the midterms. So as bad and bullshit as all of this is this ruling will quote likely have a minimal short term impact according to Jackson.

2:44:01And that's because the National voter registration act prohibits states from quote systematically removing the names of ineligible voters from their rules in the 90 days prior to any primary or general election. So they cannot do these massive bulk searches at this database is designed to do they can't just like remove tons of people all at once from the rules, but that doesn't mean that this will have no impact on the midterms because the government is still allowed to use this new save program to conduct quote individualized inquiries per the majority. So they can still go after individual people just not bulk searches Jackson writes that states will quote at most conduct individualized voter rule maintenance using the modified save system. And she concludes her descent by saying quote the harm caused by burdening or disenfranchising even a few lawful voters outweighs the non existent harm that the government experiences when it is prevented from taking an action that it likely lacks the authority to.

2:45:07And so you take unquote. I'm glad she named that in her descent because yeah, I can't get over that bit of what about the harm to the government that's wild to me. Yeah, no there's there's another line I have saved in my full report of this which is so funny she writes it cannot be that the government is injured whenever it is prevented from violating the law. So I have a really good sub up of like most Supreme Court kind of debates during Trump's second administration is that the government is constantly claiming that they're going to suffer harm if they're not allowed to break the law. Considering all of this, I think it's important to reiterate that non citizen voting is relatively rare and statistically insignificant. It's not something that is altering election results or causing harm, but what could cause harm or alter results is the mass disenfranchisement of voters scaring naturalized citizens into not voting and DHS forcibly de registering lawful US citizen voters because of their wildly inaccurate voter verification system.

2:46:23Now regarding the massive numbers thrown around by the Trump admin like 300,000 non citizen voters, 16,000 flagged Nevada. It's not yet clear if the new save system is where DHS is getting those numbers, but considering the fact that the 185 quote manually confirmed cases in Nevada turned out to be all US citizens. You cannot take anything DHS is saying at face value. Basically this whole illegal voting panic is functionally a siop to purge US citizen voters. It's to convince as many states as possible to use this new save system using threats and intimidation with the ultimate goal of purging voter rolls, which they're not allowed to do in the three months before the midterms. But going forward after the midterms DHS now has the ability to do bulk searches and removals ahead of future elections.

2:47:27So this is definitely something we will keep an eye on going in to 2028. Anyway, let's go on an ad break and then return for some bad news. And we are back. Let's turn to Brigitte Todd for our next main story. Yeah, thanks, care. And I have to give a quick heads up in the form of a trigger warning that this segment deals with some pretty rough stuff, sexual assaults, drugging. So just know that before we talk about it. Cutting in here just to say if you would like to skip this section on Cornell and title nine, you can skip to the next ad break, which should be around the 55 minute mark. I can't know the exact timestamp because that depends on the ads that are loaded into your individual podcast feed.

2:48:28But the next section by Robert Evans should be around the 55 minute mark after the next ad break. So you'll have probably been hearing about what's happening at Cornell right now. And I want to start by walking through the timeline because this case did not just suddenly emerge this month. New York Times actually had a really detailed breakdown of the timeline that was super helpful in me kind of just understanding what's going on. All of this happened almost two years ago, but there is a reason why folks were talking about it right now. So back in October of 2024, according to Jane Doe's lawsuit earlier that night, she had been out at bars and Greek life events around 11 o'clock. She goes to the Chi 5 fraternity house to meet a male Cornell student. She's also a student at Cornell at this point. She said that she thought of this student as a friend to her. Now according to this lawsuit, she was then pressured into consuming drugs and alcohol, including ketamine. And that seven men sexually assaulted her while she was incapacitated from the drugs and alcohol and weaving in and out of consciousness.

2:49:36I looked at the lawsuit that she filed the details that are laid out in this lawsuit are truly horrific to the point where I don't even necessarily feel comfortable like getting into all of them here. Stuff like her being forced to snort ketamine off of an erect penis. Oh God. Yeah, it's pretty bad. And her suit says all of this went on for hours. According to her complaint, one of the men posted a message to the fraternity Snapchat group during the night that said, quote, free pussy. Obviously, her suit interprets this as an invitation for other fraternity members to join in the room and join in the assault. This is not even like super in dispute. You can find pictures of that Snapchat message and like see the replies to it. And even the do nothing district attorney who will be talking about more in a moment has since described those Snapchat messages as, quote, morally disgusting. And he said that his office was examining whether or not those Snapchat messages could have criminal significance.

2:50:39So three weeks later on November 8th, Jane Doe goes to the Cornell University police. And you know, I don't make anybody a surprise to hear that in situations like this, there's always some victim blaming fuckery. So here is some victim blaming fuckery. So that do nothing, DA, the Tomkins County district attorney Matt Van Houten said that Jane Doe's original statement to the police described at least some of her drug use and sexual activity that night as voluntary and consensual. That's his words in our mind. He says that that was a major reason that his office determined at the time that there was insufficient evidence to pursue criminal charges. So when I heard that, I kind of did that Scooby Doo like, what the fuck do you mean? That seemed absurd to me. So I looked into this and I only learned this from researching the situation, but there is a wrinkle in New York state law that critics have called the voluntary intoxication loophole, which is basically that under New York law.

2:51:42If you voluntarily get even extremely drunk, the fact that you were too intoxicated to meaningfully consent does not by itself legally established that you were incapable of consenting to sex. Which to me is, I mean, I, I, maybe I'm a polyanna, but I did not know that I was learning that for the first time from researching what happened at Cornell. Like I get legally, especially in a situation like a party where multiple people are drinking, like how do you adjudicate after the fact without like blood tests and stuff, the level of intoxication of everybody. Like I understand how there's like complications there, but it seems like something other than just not addressing it would be the right thing to do. Yeah, and basically this law posits that you essentially have to be, if you're talking about consensual drinking, you basically have to be incapacitated to the point where you cannot move or speak on your own in order for that in that alone to establish that you were incapable of consenting to sex.

2:52:45So if you're, you know, drinking, but still talking, even if you're like extremely, extremely drunk, that by itself does not legally establish that you were not capable of consenting. So I, I really take your point, but it seems to me that like, okay, we'll just codify that into law. Yeah. And there are lawmakers, it just seems like they abrogated there, like making an actual like decision on any of this and just sort of picked, I don't know, like it doesn't, it doesn't seem like where you should draw the line, right? Like just it, okay, when somebody's passed out, like in nothing before, that just really, it just seems very irresponsible and incomplete. Totally agree. And there are lawmakers who are actively working on changing this, this intoxication loophole. And I'm glad that you said that Robert, because to me, this is just me editorializing, I think it raises a fundamental question about how consent works because a person can voluntarily use drugs or drink. Sure. And be sexually assaulted.

2:53:45A person can consent to one sex act and then not consent to another consent is. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that we just have to, I want for us a society where we have more conversations about what consent actually looks like and how it works so that more people kind of fully understand that I don't feel like we're having those conversations now, unfortunately, like in wider society, particularly with young people. Yeah. So that do nothing, DA that I told you about that, how he also is pushed back on this sort of emerging claim that Jane Doe's original statement was fragmentary or incomplete or this idea that the investigators just did not do a good enough job of getting a detailed account from her. He says that Jane Doe gave police a comprehensive statement and made more than 20 handwritten corrections to that statement before assigning it. So that's what he says is like why his office declined to pursue charges. But Jane Doe's attorney disputes all of this, including the idea that her original statement means that her current allegations are inconsistent with what she originally reported.

2:54:45Her attorney has argued that she was traumatized and incapacitated and that authorities failed to adequately investigate what actually happened to her. So I should say that Cornell did take some actions following this report, according to both Cornell and third party reporting, the university did temporarily suspend the Chi-Fi fraternity and impose some temporary suspensions or restrictions on students accused in connection with this incident while they investigated Cornell University's police did contact that DA, which like, okay, a lot of good that did and prosecutors again reviewed the allegations and ultimately decided not to. You know, pursue criminal charges under New York State law. Then in January of 2025 Jane Doe filed a formal title nine complaint with Cornell triggering a totally separate university review process. So in case you don't know title nine is the federal civil rights law, the prohibit sex discrimination in schools that receive federal funding and dictates rules around how colleges are required to respond when a student reports something like sexual assault or sexual harassment.

2:55:51According to the New York Times by May Cornell's title nine committee had held at least 12 hearings involving these allegations on this situation. So Cornell now says that this investigation eventually resulted in what they describe as serious disciplinary sanctions, what they describe as things like suspensions and expulsions and that the Chi-Fi chapter that was involved in this is still barred from campus. However, we don't actually know exactly what happened to each individual student because Cornell has declined to publicly disclose any of those details citing federal student privacy laws. Jane Doe's attorney told CBS News that two of the seven students were expelled and at least some of the men who were named in the lawsuit have denied allegations through their attorneys. So if you've heard about this situation, you've probably heard about one particularly grim detail and that is the essays. So Jane Doe's civil complaint alleges that several of the accused students were quote, afforded the opportunity to mitigate their conduct by submitting essays to Cornell like written papers that you would write in a class.

2:57:02Cornell has since pushed back on that claim, but in a way that I find interesting because they did not say that none of the students involved were made to write an essay to mitigate their conduct. What Cornell said was quote, none of the individuals charged were offered the opportunity to write essays as a sole consequence of their involvement. So like it kind of does sound like maybe they were made to write essays like why I'm not sure what that exactly means. So Cornell says the disciplinary process resulted in a range of sanctions including suspensions and expulsions, but again we don't really know what all went down there. So after that, the story kind of fell from public view until very recently this month, this month, Jane Doe filed a civil lawsuit against the defendants, including Cornell University, Cai Phi, her sorority Delta Delta Delta University officials and seven men that she says participated in this assault.

2:58:02And that lawsuit has really pushed this whole situation more into public view like how did the university handle it, how did the authorities handle it. And I have to really champion the student journalists at the Cornell Daily Sun here, which is Cornell's independent student newspaper. The daily Sun journalists have been reporting on these allegations going back to 2024 and they have been aggressively pursuing and covering the lawsuit and the university's response. There is a really good Q&A with one of the student editors, Ceres Kuzba in the cut about what it was like to break and cover this story. And one of the things that she said was that weirdness around whether or not these students were asked her right essays to mitigate this like really really awful behavior. But it clarified that for me because she basically says that Cornell treats sexual assault on campus as a more of an education issue, not a public safety issue. And she really describes the kind of environment where like it would make sense that the university would think that having students do workshops or write essays would be an appropriate way to mitigate harm.

2:59:10She told the cut when you search the task force website, you see what they're doing is classes, workshops and website links. It's pretty easy to assume that those who would often commit the sexual assault will most likely not be the ones attending the voluntary and optional sexual assault workshops within the editorial committee. We feel that sexual misconduct cannot be solved in the same way we try to attempt to solve plagiarism. These are very fundamentally different issues she told the cut. So if you have seen the names of these men circulating publicly, that is because of the Cornell Daily Sun on September 21st, the Cornell Daily Suns editorial board published the names of all of the men who were named as defendants in this lawsuit. They said that they believed Cornell has failed in its obligation to protect the students and to adequately account for its handling of the allegations. So I do have a couple of updates on September 28th that Tomkins County District Attorney Matthew Van Houten, you know, that do nothing, DA I was describing earlier.

3:00:11Well, he announced that his office was actually going to do something and that is to reopen this criminal investigation. Van Houten says that his office has assigned a senior prosecutor with experience prosecuting sex crimes and is preparing to present the case to a grand jury. Also, New York governor Kathy Hocal calls for an outside counsel to conduct a transparent independent review of how the university handled Jane Doe's situation. Specifically, she wants this review to determine whether or not Cornell met its obligations to protect students and pursue justice. Kind of where the Cornell situation sits right now. I have a couple of other sort of pieces there. I don't know if you would call this person a journalist. I'm going to refer to him as a sub-stack troll. Oh, no, are you going to talk about who I think you're going to talk about? It's Michael Tracy. Oh, yes, yes, I'm from Michael Tracy. Oh, damn it. Is this not his perseverance on the pod?

3:01:11No, we've talked about Michael and him being sure the Americans were about to invade to help Ukraine because he wound up accidentally at a US embassy in Poland. We've talked about Michael a few times because he's always wrong about everything he says. Well, you might not be surprised then to find out that he is trying to reveal Jane Doe's identity. This is not the first time he's gone after a survivor. Yes, he tweeted, if you happen to know who this Cornell Jane Doe is, get in touch and I would be happy to publish her name and identifying information. And yes, this is 100% permitted under the First Amendment. Whatever threats or emotional blackmail people might want to deploy. Now, just a real lovely guy, real lovely addition to this whole shit show. There's been a few other kind of far-right content creators who've tried to dox this woman has put out identifications that who knows if they are real or not. But this is definitely not just Michael. This is not just a Michael problem.

3:02:12This is across the whole kind of Twitter America first, Gryper sphere as well. Yeah. And I'm glad that you mentioned that when I was researching for this, I actually found myself in the behind the bastards or cool zone subreddit. And one of the posts on there caught my eye, which was, I think this person is right, but basically asking, does it seem like there's an uptick in kind of, quote, gender wars stuff being used in city area ways? Yes. And he was talking about some of the conversation around the Lindsey Clancy trial. And I do, I mean, I'm lucky that I'm on my side of pocket of the internet. Everybody is supportive of Jane Doe and they want a more transparent, clear process for when this kind of thing happens. But I do think we're seeing an uptick in this kind of thing being used to divide and and incite. Yeah. Yeah. The Lindsey Clancy or whatever in the case, I'm also saying used a lot that way in the right of like women want to be able to murder their babies and stuff.

3:03:15Like there's definitely a concerted effort to push gender conflict shit. Yeah. And I, I hate that it is effective. I hate that it's a kind of cultural issue that really can move people along these lines. And you know, I think it's important that we know that this situation at Cornell is like not isolated. Camp is rapist, not, is not an isolated thing. And there's actually another story that you might be hearing less about. A student at Louisiana State University named Kendall Francis. Is a student at LSU, a young black woman. This is from law commentary. LSU found a football player responsible for sexual assault and forcible rate through its title nine process. Then reduced his one year suspension on appeal to two years of probation without restrictions. Subsequently, allowing him back on the LSU football team. So this finding remained in place in that case is now under criminal investigation. So you're probably thinking, what the fuck?

3:04:17Basically, law commentary reports that Francis, the student at LSU filed a formal title nine complaint in January of 2026. After investigating these allegations and the player's account, the university did find him responsible for sexual assault and forcible rate. LSU initially imposed a one year suspension that player appealed the university upheld the sexual misconduct finding. But then reversed the suspension, replacing it with that two years of quote disciplinary probation without restrictions. This of course allowed him to return to campus, campus life, campus activities, including returning to the LSU football team. So the student has been saying, you know, I'm been made incredibly anxious by this. Like I wanted us to be on campus and live my life. But the idea that mine, the person that the university agrees assaulted me is just a loud back on campus is unacceptable. So in response, she filed a criminal complaint and that complaint was brought to the East Baton Rouge Parish District Attorney's Office for review on September 22, 2026, where they are now investigating.

3:05:24And that's kind of where we're at right now. But LSU says that they're standing by what they did. They said that they followed the policies and the process correctly and that they're, you know, working with law enforcement to solve the matter. She's been speaking up on social media, you know, using her real identity, which is an incredibly fraught thing to be doing. I wanted to play just a little bit of a video that she posted to social media. We had a pretty rough hearing. The hearing was not the best. And then LSU said that he was accountable for rape and then proceeded to suspend him for a year, even though for rape, the suspension is two to three years. Even with him admitting on the record that he did rape me, they still just gave him a lesser sentence in which he then appealed. During this appeal process, it took so long and they took a long, long time to give it back to me.

3:06:24And I ended up coming back to LSU because at first he was suspended and I did not think that they would suspend him because they had already found, or unsuspend him because they had already found him responsible for rape. After the appeal process, LSU decided to send me the email of the appeal process during my class. So I ended up reading the appeal in my class and during the letter it said that he was still responsible for rape, but he's able to play football, join Orives, and everything like that. And so that made my anxiety really, really bad because I don't want to face this person. So this caused me to go online all the time and now I'm just trying to speak on my story because LSU does really protect their athletes, especially their football players. I'm sorry for anyone else who has gone through something similar to this. My deans are opening you guys are more than welcome to message me. I really just wanted to bring awareness upon this situation because I'm just dealing with a lot right now and I think that this story needs to be heard. Thank you guys for listening to my story and I hope you guys all have an amazing day.

3:07:27So she's been really speaking out on social media and you know, I'm really happy that we are galvanizing around Jane Doe at Cornell. And I think that all survivors and victims deserve to have their stories shared deserve to have support deserve to be believed. And so I just wanted to also highlight what's happening at LSU with this title nine complaint as well. And coincidentally, I do have some title nine news because on September 28th, the very same day that that DA announced that they were reopening the Cornell investigation. The Trump administration formally reinstated the title nine regulations that were created during Trump's first term. And a little bit of a political and legal tug of war back and forth for years during Trump's first term, his administration rewrote the title nine rules back in 2020. Among other things, the regulations that he changed narrowed what kinds of sexual harassment schools were required to address under title nine and also strengthen procedural protections for students who were accused of misconduct.

3:08:36The Biden administration rewrote those rules again in 2024 those Biden rules broadened protections against sex discrimination to include explicitly extending those protections to discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity and changed how schools could handle sexual harassment complaints. And those rules then got tied up in lawsuits and in January of 2025, a federal judge struck them down nationwide. So the 2020 Trump rules were effectively kind of back in place, but what happened this week is that the Trump administration made that official. The education department formally removed those Biden error regulations from the books and restored those Trump 2020 regulations. So if you ask me, those rules make it more difficult for some students who experience sexual harassment or misconduct or assault to come forward and get real help from their schools. Now, to be clear, the Cornell case and this Trump change are different developments. They're not related, but it is hard for me not to sort of read them concurrently because it feels like we're watching this Cornell case, raise all these questions about what happens when a student reports.

3:09:45You know, sexual assault or sexual misconduct, who believes them, who investigates what the university does, what they are, what they have to do if they're getting federal funding, what law enforcement does, you know, while the federal government is simultaneously deciding what obligation schools have when students come forward with stuff like this. Yeah, and I mean, to the degree to which the title nine issue was motivated by by transphobia as well, which shows how much. Transphobia ends up hurting everyone, you know, you're going to talk about, you know, keeping women safe in locker rooms. And that's why you're going to attack attack trans people, but then you're actually going to be reinstating a version of title nine with less sexual assault protections. Oh, yes, I have said this many times, it's like that Beyonce quote, when you play me, you play yourself, when you, when you dabble in transphobia, ultimately, you are hurting everyone, you're making everyone less safe. Thanks for that report, Bridget, we'll have one more ad break and then Robert will have a special report, Darring Tudon.

3:10:59And we're back. So in April earlier this year on this very show, I celebrated the massive upset parliamentary elections in Hungary, which saw right wing authoritarian Prime Minister Victor Orbán forced out of office. Over the past decade in change, Orbán had disintegrated what checks and balances existed in Hungarian democracy as he cracked down on political opponents, destroyed academic independence and censored the media so effectively that his regime was used as a model by the US right wing. Ever since Hungary started hosting its own CPAC and people like Tucker Carlson produced bonding coverage of Orbán's regime in an effort to copy it here. Then came Peter Magyar, whose name is the Hungarian equivalent of a guy in the US being called Pete America as centrist conservative Magyar rose to power promising to take back Hungarian democracy and punish Orbán and his cronies for their years of outrageous corruption. On the campaign trail, he called Orbán's government a mafia state. Magyar laid out a road to jail program in which he promised consequences for right wing politicians and appointees who abused their power and this was a massively popular part of his campaign.

3:12:04And it's something that Democrats in the United States should be paying attention to. After Magyar's Tizza party won, among the celebrations was a tinge of very real worry. What if Peter turned out to simply be a different kind of authoritarian or what if he was just feckless and did the same kind of thing our own political leaders did in the US when Trump lost in 2020? In other words, what if he completely failed to hold Orbán and his people to account out of fear? There was good reason to worry that the road to jail program would get dropped entirely now that Magyar and his Tizza party were in power. As Kino versec noted in an article for Deutsche Well quote, Orbán had laid out plans that stretched decades into the future in the event of his party losing the election civil servants who would be difficult to replace with sabotage the work of new governments. In addition, billions were scrolled away to continue financing Orbán's network. They were left in hungry with kind of the same problem we are going to have in the US if we ever do get Trump and his people out of office, which is that you can't just beat them in an election. You have to undo the stuff they did and punish them in order to cripple their networks and stop them from rising again.

3:13:07And that was an open question after Magyar won in Hungary and it's now looking after a few months like he is committing to going after Orbán and his network with a two thirds majority in parliament. The parliament has launched what I've seen translated as Operation Purge or Operation Purgatory on different new sites. I'm not really sure what's a more accurate description of what Magyar actually meant. I think Operation Purgatory, because as Deutsche Well notes, Peter has a known penchant for religious and historical symbols. On Monday, Hungarian prosecutors detained two of Orbán's former ministers over corruption allegations. These guys are still incarcerated. Parliament had previously voted to lift their immunity. Purg Euro news article by Sandor Zeros says tok, who served as development minister from 2014 to 2018, is suspected of taking around 30 million euros in bribes linked to bus tenders. Hanco is being investigated over the disbursement of 46 million euros in cultural funds to public figures, which the authorities largely regard as campaign financing.

3:14:08Both men deny any wrongdoing. I don't know how this is going to shake out, but it looks like the government is going after them pretty hard. I think this story is important to watch both because, obviously, Hungarian democracy matters, but also because this should be taken as a model by Democrats if they ever do manage to unseat the Republicans and take back some form of control. The Hungarian isn't just going after Orbán and his people because they broke the law, he's doing it because it's excellent politics. Political analysts, Sableck's dole told Euro news that fighting corruption has been a major source of Magyars continuing popularity. In other words, voters continue to support him going after Orbán. Quote, this is the core issue of Peter Magyars politics. He has always had the greatest success in the campaign by promising accountability, confrontation and consequences. One of these elements is that he will hold those responsible for the past period to criminal proceedings and even send them to prison, the promise of handcuffs and bars many times. Now, the elephant in the room here remains Orbán, just as Trump would be if things were reversed here.

3:15:09Victor Orbán has not yet been charged with any crimes, but Magyars' party has been hard at work building the judicial infrastructure to make that possible, and I also consider this very relevant for Americans. The heart of Operation Purge is a new government office, the National Asset Recovery and Protection Office, which is dedicated to going after people who robbed the government during the time that Orbán's very corrupt party was in power. This new body has been in power to take over corruption investigations from traditional prosecutors, as well as to start new investigations into issue warrants. They have several other Orbán cronies in their sites at present, and it looks likely that Victor himself will soon face charges over his criminal liability in a case involving two Ukrainian cash couriers who were legally stopped and had their money confiscated. As you'd expect, Orbán's Fidesz party has issued complaints about their treatment, calling it arbitrary and complaining that his utterance wants to imprison half the country. Within Parliament, Magyars has also faced resistance. His own immunity was lifted, the request of the prosecutor's office, over a minor theft claim that just makes him seem cooler.

3:16:11In May of 2024, he stole the phone of a man who was filming him dancing at a nightclub and threw it in the Danube. But, honestly, it's pretty sick. That's just awesome. That's just rad as hell, bro. It's also worth me noting that Magyars and Teza have been busier than just this. During his first month or so in office, he had Parliament to prove cuts to the salaries of lawmakers and ministers, and introduced a new maximum limit to the time that a Prime Minister can hold office to terms, which is really noteworthy both that like his parties in power and their voting to give politicians, including themselves less money and limit their own power in office, that's a really good sign. In terms of him actually giving a shit about restoring Hungarian democracy. Also on Tuesday of this week, the Hungarian Parliament passed a raft of anti-corruption measures. I'm going to keep covering this as Magyars continues going after Orban. I think this is really worth watching. So far, I'm pretty optimistic about what's going on there. No, especially in terms of how much Orban's regime was like the blueprint for Trump's second term.

3:17:15Exactly. This look into a what if potentially we've talked about the outrageous levels of corruption in the second Trump administration. I don't think many people are very confident that the Democrats upon taking power will actually hold the Trump had been accountable. I sure am not. But I think looking at stuff like this, it gives us a good brawmutter to hold the Democrats to a certain extent. Yes, this can work and this can work electorally. When you said it was excellent politics, Robert, I agree with that. And I was like, and that's how I know the Democrats probably aren't going to do it. That's the thing. And the Democrats are probably going to do it. Yeah. And fortunately, I do before we leave also want to turn our attention briefly to another nation that recently ousted a right wing want to be tyrant, Brazil. And this is a somewhat less optimistic story. Several years now after Giair Bolsonaro's ouster, which he's in prison now for the coup that was launched after he lost his election in 2022. Brazil is in the thick of another election that many fear might return the right and the Bolsonaro's to power.

3:18:16The most recent polling from 30th of September by a meow, Ike's slash idea showed Lula, the current president with 39.4% of the vote and Flavio Bolsonaro with 38.4% of the vote. They go through like multiple. This is the second round of voting, right? And that is still a statistical tie. This does represent Lula has widened his first round lead against Bolsonaro, but it's still like statistically a tie, right? Neither of them can win with the numbers they're putting up. Things are drastically close still. There's another vote on Sunday, October 4th. And as it stands, about 32% of voters say that they might change their vote before Sunday, October 4th. Right? So it is very hard to tell what's going to happen here. And Bolsonaro's son could in Flavio's Bolsonaro's kid could very well win this election. It's entirely possible. Writing for Chatham House, Dr. Christopher Sabatini said of this election, quote, a Bolsonaro victory would mean Trump aligned government's dominate South America. Now, I won't have time to cover this election in detail, but it's worth noting that the incumbent Lula de Silva is 80,

3:19:18whereas Flavio Bolsonaro is 45. That said, it's unclear to me if age is a major factor in this. I doubt it's a non-factor. But these numbers are not far from the 2022 numbers, right? Lula won his way back into power with 50.9% of the vote, to 49.1% for J. Urbulsignaro, after polls consistently undercounted Bolsonaro's support, right? One thing I'll say is this doesn't look like a massive shift. They were pretty close to Tide when Lula won, and they're pretty close to Tide now, right? Her Dr. Sabatini's analysis, quote, this year's contest is more than a familial grudge match. For one, it looks a lot like recent presidential elections in the region. In June, elections in both Peru and Colombia went to a second round. Each resulted in a narrow victory for conservative candidates who, like the Bolsonaro's, are aligned with the regional diplomatic agenda of US President Donald Trump. Both Lula and the younger Bolsonaro face high levels of voter rejection. More than 54% of Brazilian voters disapprove of Flavio, according to one poll. Lula does little better in the same survey, with 52% against the president running for a fourth term.

3:20:21Brazil also suffers from much of the same electoral malaise that we do. Only 37% of Brazilian voters say they are satisfied with their democracy, a drop of nearly 50% since 2013. The highest levels of dissatisfaction are, of course, seen among Bolsonaro voters. And as a recent Guardian editorial noted, most voters disapprove of most men. Intracing the significant developments of this campaign, the Guardian summarizes, quote, Lula's social programs are extensive, but frustration it Brazil's enduring failure to match its economic record to its potential may hobble him, especially with growth slowing. Violent crime remains a top issue. Then came the Banco Master Financial scandal, which is snowballed into a corruption case spanning Brazilian politics in the judiciary. First, Flavio Bolsonaro was caught on tape asking the failed Banks Playboy owner, Daniel Vercaro, for almost $27 million to make a film about his father. He denies wrongdoing. Then compromising messages between Mr. Vercaro and the Supreme Court judge who led the prosecution of the ex-president Bolsonaro were revealed. The allegations fed the perception that politicians are all dirty and bolstered the unfounded far right claim that Mr. Bolsonaro's senior was stitched up.

3:21:26So this is incredibly close. A Bolsonaro could wind up leading Brazil again very soon. And if it does a big part of the reason is that nobody presented Brazilian voters with a candidate they liked. Right? Like Lula is very popular among like the Western left, but he's not popular in Brazil right now. He's more popular than Flavio Bolsonaro, but they're both disliked by a majority of the country. So if there's a warning that every other country should take out of it than that, it's make sure whoever you run against the far right is someone people like. Right? Again, excellent politics. Hope we do it. Yeah. Anyway, that's Brazil. We'll see how that goes. I hope Lula wins because I really I don't want to see a Bolsonaro running Brazil again. But whoever wins, I have one prediction for Brazil, which is that Jair Bolsonaro will wind up in a hospital again within the next three months. That's, I mean, that's that's barely a prediction. That's just a statistical certainty. I think.

3:22:28But no, wait, this is a really good wake up call. It reminded me that like as fun as it is to have these kind of grandpa's on the left, you have to pass off leadership to new people. You have to pass the torch, even if they're guys who've done some really good stuff in the past. Yeah. These two fucking old. It just is. I think I saw like Ryan Grim musing about running Sanders again for 2028. Like recently, like, dude, what the fuck are you talking about? I still I have fond feelings for Bernie. He's too old. He's too old. He'd be like 90 years old, dude. We got it. We got to move on people. Get real. Get real. I'm sorry. Before we close this episode, let's pivot to me a vlog for a special tariff talk segment. So let's talk tariffs as Trump's trade war with Canada continues with no sign of any agreement in sight.

3:23:36Trump's tariffs are finally getting their day in court, but not the 50% tariffs that Trump levied against Canada using what can at best be described as the extremely dubious powers. The court on quote of the 1930s smooth holly tariff fact. Oh no. The tariffs that have finally reached the US court of international trade are the section 301 tariffs that Trump levied backing July. Now by the time you are listening to this, a couple of days in the future, it is going to be October. Now the first lawsuit against these tariffs was filed again in late July. And it's now October and we're getting, you know, we're getting the initial arguments on September 30th. Meanwhile, the 10 to 12% tariffs on almost all US imports remain in effect and probably will continue to remain in effect while this case winds its way through this court, probably an appeals court.

3:24:43And then probably also this is a pre-incorporate despite the fact that these tariffs are just obviously absurd usage of section 301. So for those you've forgotten section 301 are supposed to be the tariffs for unfair trade practices. The July tariffs are once again on 99.4% of all imported goods. And these ones are nominally supposed to be about forced labor. There's like a whole thing about section 301 tariffs is that you can't just impose them immediately. You have to do a whole investigatory process of least nominally about the specific unfair trade practices that the country is doing. But you know, so these are supposed to nominally be about forced labor, but they're on an unbelievable number of countries that just happen to again constitute 99% of all imported goods in the US. And as the litigants in this case have begun to argue in front of the US court of international trade, it doesn't actually make sense to just have two categories of tariff levels and then just be like, oh yeah, all these countries did forced labor or weren't harsh enough about cracking down on other countries doing forced labor.

3:25:53So we're just going to set this tariff rate for all of them. That's that's not what section 301 tariffs is supposed to be for. There's supposed to be for, you know, like deliberate. Very specific targeted tariffs on a country for a specific thing, not we want to impose a 10% tariff again. And where our last thing that was letting us impose a 10% tariff is failing. So we're going to do this one now. And as as you sort of might expect the initial arguments do not seem to be going well for the administration who, you know, showed up in front of the court with the bumbling in aptitude they have become known for when they're forced to defend administration decisions in recent times. There's a bunch of reports of, you know, what are the representatives of the administration is like giving this starting to try to give this like giant speech about the evils of forced labor and what are the judges just like immediately interrupt him. And they're doing again, another thing that's a staple of if you if you listen to or seen clips of like any administrative proceeding for like anything this administration doesn't court.

3:26:59You will see administration representatives be asked basic questions about a case and just not know the answers to them. So this is already going poorly on day one. However, again, like this is the first of like three course they have to go through and probably is going to be in effect and tell. I don't know probably is the prune court gets to it. So incredible incredible stuff happening in the US legal system where the president can just impose whatever tariffs he wants by making up legal authority. And then they just stay in effect until a bunch of months later when they're found to be illegal, which point he's moved on to the next tariff. Again, we're one tariff cycle behind with the section 301 tariffs, right. He's already using Holly smooth for the Canada tariffs. Now, it is worth noting. This is part of the reason I'm talking about the section 301 tariffs is that Trump is also threatening to do a different set of section 301 tariffs to do these. They're called quote unquote, excess capacity tariffs that he said these like investigations going for a while now. So excess capacity is.

3:28:06It is a thing that exists in the world refers to, you know, steel is the context in which it comes up the most it refers to. Oh, yeah, there's actually like a lot more steel production and there's supposed to be in these countries that are producing more steel than they need and pumping it all on the market to like depreciate steel prices. They're nominally doing investigations about a range of goods with excess capacity. I did I did an entire episode about this last year. About the sort of core economic causes of this in the way that this sort of like chronic overproduction and under consumption where you have a bunch of stuff being produced that's going to waste because people can't use it because they don't have any money. This is a structural feature capitalism. Yeah, I didn't episode last year when there was another big fight over steel tariffs. That was about over capacity. It's called economics of the terror for shame. If you want to go more into the steel over capacity stuff, but these tariffs mostly seem to be another attempt to do.

3:29:06Basically, the same thing as the other section three of one tariffs and he just levied. So it's to have some kind of another way to impose a broad percentage tariff on a whole bunch of different countries. These are the kind of tariffs that Trump has been salivating over ever since he took office and he's been trying to find increasingly obscure ways to do them. Sent to Supreme Court overruled his initial extremely bizarre claiming of powers that he used to do it last time. Now, to close out my section here, let's wrap up the story of I guess now X chairman of the Federal Reserve Jerome Powell. Who if you will remember Trump attempted to have investigated by federal prosecutors, nominally for corruption around like the remodeling of the Federal Reserve building. This is the whole thing that Trump and all the people were pushing at the time in the middle of this conflict he was having where Trump was trying to get Jerome Powell to cut interest rates.

3:30:06But that's like not a thing that the president is supposed to be you know pressuring the Fed to do that defeats the entire purpose of the independence of the Fed. And you know Trump was going on TV all the time and talking about like, ah, they're like turning the Fed into like a palace. They've like using all your government money to like make giant like glowing bathrooms and stuff, which is really funny when you like look at all of the shit that Trump was doing. Like does all of the unhinged weird golden like renovation quote unquote stuff that was happening in the White House and the whole sort of ballroom bullshit real sort of classic case of projection. But these like very absurd charges led to a fairly serious situation where you have Jerome Powell getting superior by the Justice Department. And this is unprecedented right. And then he ends up as a response releasing what I can like really only describe as like a preemptive hostage video. Where he's just talking about like, hey, yeah, I am like the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board and I am being persecuted for my political beliefs by the president of the United States.

3:31:12And this you know caused kind of a enough of a firestorm even among Republicans in Congress that eventually this federal investigation is dropped in exchange for Trump's nominee for Fed chairman Kevin Warsh getting a hearing in the Senate. And the end result of that was that this investigation was sort of moved to the feds like independent watchdog. And this week the Fed finally released a really like 126 page longer port that clears Jerome Powell of any criminal wrongdoing which like, yes, obviously he like didn't commit a bunch of crimes in this remodeling. There is a bunch of stuff there about like, ah, there were cost overruns and they should have had like a cap on costs, but I don't know like a the Fed funds itself like it's not even tax dollars. It's like they fund itself from fees and be like, look, I'm not a Federal Reserve fan, but like, oh my God, there were cost overruns from subcontractors doing bullshit in a construction project.

3:32:15He's like, like, come on, like, what are we doing here? Yeah, yeah, no shit. Of course, of course there were cost overruns and I guess pseudo government construction project from like costs increasing like, okay, this list, this whole sort of chapter appears to largely be over. Although it still remains to be seen whether we're going to get a confrontation between Kevin Warsh and Trump over interest rate cuts. Warsh has been kind of bailed out like at least this quarter by inflation data was like slightly better than people was expecting, but you know, there is also still just a chance that, you know, next quarter inflation goes up and we see like a direct conflict between Warsh and Trump over what's going to happen with the interest rates once again as as happened with Jerome Powell. And if that happens, we will keep you informed. Finally, here is a quick message from that James Stout who was out in the field.

3:33:16Hey, everyone, it's James. I wasn't able to join the rest of the gang for ED today because I was in Lochial Arizona where a group of people have been defending a cottonwood tree against destruction for the building of the border wall. They have so far been able to stop construction. I believe it'll be 66 or 67 days. If you hear this on the day it comes out and they have done so by occupying this giant cottonwood tree 24 seven. If you're not familiar with cottonwood, it's a very important trees in this ecosystem. They often grow near water. In this case, these cottonwoods are several hundred years old and they used to be a continuous canopy between what is now Mexico and what is now the United States. At one point there was a tree sitter in Mexico also occupying one of those cottonwood trees. They were asked by landowners to come down after those landowners were threatened by border patrol, according to people I spoke to on the ground. But the tree sit in the United States side is still ongoing in between those two trees.

3:34:19There were other old cottonwoods that were they weren't cut down. They were pushed pulled down by excavators. You can see where their root balls have been torn out of the ground. It's really really really horrible to look at. If people are interested, there is a day of action on the fourth of October and they are also able to look at the camp website. If you want to look at the camp website, it's very new, but it should be ready. By the time you hear this and it is camp C-A-M-P-O-Shad OSH-AD.org. I will also include that in the show notes. You can find updates from the camp there. If you want to know more about the planned day of action, you can click on the Get Involved tab at the top of that website. I noticed that they also have a list of things that they need, which people can drop off if they are in Tucson, Arizona.

3:35:23That does it for us here at It Good Happen here. Bridget, where can people find you and your work online? Yeah, you can check out my audio book about how tech companies and AI companies are using our deepest darkest thoughts to exploit us. Called Love It First Prompt, AI in the future of intimacy. You can check out my podcast. There are no girls on the internet. You can follow me on Instagram at BridgetMarieNDC. Awesome. Thank you, Bridget. Thank you so much for joining us this episode. We reported the news. We reported the news. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe. It could happen here is a production of Cool Zone Media. From more podcast from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, CoolzoneMedia.com. For check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources where it could happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.

3:36:24I heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.