Iran, war, and the surprising growth of Christianity

0:00This is Faith in Clarity, and I'm Mark Turman, your host. We equip you to discover hope beyond the headlines by seeking the Holy Spirit and depending upon God's truth in the Bible. The world, as you know, is hyper-focused right now on the new war that has broken out between Iran and Israel and the United States. It's likely that that's what will be focused on in many, many ways for weeks, perhaps months or even longer. People have already died in this conflict, including four U.S. soldiers. You've certainly seen that in the news if you've been watching. And this week we are talking about how God may be working to redeem not only this conflict, but even this region. Perhaps God is stirring in a fresh way right in front of us to bring spiritual awakening, religious freedom, and just a whole sense of flourishing to Iran and the surrounding region that we haven't seen in our lifetime. So we're going to jump right in.

1:00I've got a couple of friends helping me today, my good friend Gerald Griffin, who is the founder and leader of Two Cultivate, a ministry dedicated to strengthening pastors through free coaching, mentoring, and counseling. Gerald has more than 30 years experience as a pastor, and he serves additionally as a trainer for the North American Mission Board, helping equip church planters for the work that they seek to do for their kingdom. Gerald, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Mark. Glad to be here. We also have today, Dr. Hormose Sherriott, who was born in Iran. And we are honored to have him back with us again. He's been a part of our podcast before. If you didn't remember, he is the president and founder of Iran Alive Ministries. He has an incredible story personally about how he moved from a Muslim background in his growing up years to becoming a follower of Jesus in 1980. I want you to remember that date, 1980, pretty significant in the overall story of Iran.

2:02And we'll get to that in a moment. But Dr. Sherriott holds a PhD in artificial intelligence. Some people are talking about that every now and then these days, right? And maybe we'll touch on that. But he is a renowned authority on the region of Iran and the accompanying area. He has a book called Iran's Great Awakening, which is a very helpful source of information about what God is doing in this part of the world. Since 2001, he has been broadcasting the Gospel of Jesus into Iran and into the Middle East. He has led in his ministry over 100,000 Iranian Muslims to faith in Christ. His channel is the most watched Christian channel in Iran reaching more than seven million viewers a day. He is also the recipient of the National Religious Broadcasters International Impact Award. And he has been called by some the Billy Graham of Iran. Dr. Sherriott, welcome back to the faith and clarity podcast.

3:04We're glad that you're here. Thank you, Mark. Good to be back and share updates about Iran. Nice to see you, Gerald. I appreciate you very much. Thank you, sir. Yeah. Well, we are certainly glad to have a conversation. Maybe one of several conversations that the Lord might want us to have as this new situation in Iran continues to move forward. But kind of to get us started, Dr. Sherriott, I just wanted to ask some of us are old enough to remember that there was an Iran before 1979, 1980 before the oppressive regime that some are trying to overthrow now that we thought might actually be overthrown in January when the people of Iran just flooded into the streets. But what was it like growing up in Iran? What was it like before 1979 and the Islamic revolution?

4:06Tell us a little bit about what that was like spiritually. And is that I'm just kind of wondering is should we be praying as Christians that we would return to something that you experienced in your growing up years? Or should we more be praying for something that we've never seen in Iran in our lifetimes at least? Well, good question. Yes and no. You have to know what's happening so you can prayer effectively. You ask about those days I was growing up in Iran and I want to tell you there was a transformation before our eyes. Iran was changing very fast. The Iran I knew when I started high school and when I finished it was totally different. Many good things was happening. But the Shah, Shah did not allow any freedom, political freedom and people were not happy with that. But the economy is just booming.

5:06It's one of the fastest growing economies in the world. And wealth was growing and people had opportunities. So the Iranian people were moving against the Shah and it was fueled by his enemies which were communists and mullahs. They were his enemies and they and they united to bring him down. But there was all freedoms in Iran except political freedom and they did a revolution. They hoping to get back their political freedom and you know what happened, this is history. Not only they did not gain the political freedom they were hoping. They lost every other freedom that they had and that's for 40 some years of suffering. About the spiritual condition and Shah's time, freedom of churches, freedom of missionaries to be Iran. And I've talked to the missionaries who spent years in Iran before Shah.

6:07You know what I tell, they tell me they said nobody was interested in Jesus Christ. We were free to share the gospel but nobody was interested. If we passed on, we wanted to talk to 100 people and want to give them a free Bible, only one would get. That's before 79. Now people are so hungry, so hungry for Jesus. People are coming to Christ and they're begging for a Bible and open heaven in Iran. So free political environment but closed switch early before Shah. Now at this point, open heaven switch early and there has been oppression by the government of Iran which hopefully will be ended very soon. Dr. Shirat, you've given us a good view of what it was like politically freedom was. I'm curious because Mark and I both grew up in East Texas. If you start talking to us about our childhood, there would be memories we would have that

7:09would be in common. Simple things about what we did as children. Can you tell us a little bit of what it felt like as a child as someone growing up in your country? As a child, I felt there was a hope for the future. I had so many dreams about when I grew up and I could see them possible because I could see the doors open. The Shah would have these amazing universities, for example, and Shah and his regime paid for my education and many other people at Sharif or Arya Mary University which became one of the top universities in the world. Graduates from that university, his education was such a high level and he paid for it. That even Stanford, I was in California and near Stanford and one time I read the dean of the Stanford engineering said this, he said, we have more PhD students from Iran than

8:16our own graduates from Stanford. So the education was so high and as a child, I just had dreaming, dreaming one day I will have a PhD, one day I will go to the United States and be a research scientist. So dreaming was there and achieving your dreams was there. I'm saying that because it's not right now today. That's why you see Arya's and protests on the sheet of Iran. The young people in Iran, they cannot dream. They do not dream. They have no hope. When the protests started, I remember seeing this young man, he was standing. This is before the massacre. He was standing before the police and police regards and he was saying, hey, go ahead and kill me. I'm young, but I never lived. Go ahead and kill me. I don't have a life. Go ahead and kill me. So the environment I grew up was so positive, so full of hope.

9:20But Iranians right now, especially the young people, have no hope. That's why they came on streets and about 40,000 of them were killed. Wow. I just, yeah, that just rings so many bells in my heart and in my mind. It just, you know, on another podcast, I asked a leader to give me a definition of hope and he said, hope is simply having a reasonable expectation of a good future. And that optimism, that even Americans are struggling to have right now, young Americans are struggling to have a sense of hope and positivity and optimism about what the future can hold for them. It also just seems incredibly aligned with what Jesus said on many occasions when you said, you know, when the country was open 50 years ago, the economy was prospering and people were not interested in spiritual things and were not interested in the gospel. And now it's just exactly the reverse.

10:21The economy is basically in shambles, I believe. And people are, in many ways, barely getting by, many of them suffering in very poverty stricken times of experiences, but now they're spiritually open. And that just seems to be so strange, but it just kind of makes me think, wow, what all can change in less than a generation in less than 50 years? Dr. Giri, I know that you're a pastor, not a politician, but we do want to ask just from your experience that when tensions and conflicts like what we're experiencing now, when those things start to come up, how does it actually look in the daily lives of the people of Iran? You mentioned religious freedom. It was there. Now it's gone. We're hoping that this situation might bring religious freedom back, but in preparing for this, just learned, reminded again, 84 million people in Iran, only two million

11:27of them, approximately, are Christians. In the last 50 years, there's no, there are no churches now. There are no Bibles. What is, what does it look like when conflict and war breaks out? What does that look like for the citizens and what does religious suppression look like over the last few years? Well, let me start with the religion suppression. As the Christianity has been growing in Iran, the government of Iran is being more and more alarmed and may I use the word afraid of Christians, Christianity growing and they want to be in control and they see this religion or religious as Christians are growing in numbers and influence. So that's why the motivation for the persecution of Christians have been. They want Christians, hey, I know you're contagious. We want to stop you. Yeah. So sharing the gospel with people has been a crime.

12:30Even greater crime has been to go to a house church. So the persecution is there and it has been increasing because the fear of the government towards Christians has been increasing. Their strategy has been just arrests Christians. They cannot arrest all two, three million Christians. So this is their strategy. They're just just arrested few for minor crimes and put them in long jail sentences. So to teach a lesson to other Christians, hey, you better watch out. For example, just a few months ago, 17 people were arrested. I'm going to tell just a story of one of them. Yes. Now, yes, was a young mother. She just had a baby. She just had a baby. They took her away from her baby in jail and a court sentenced her to 17 years in prison, 17 years in prison. Can you guess what her crime was, attending a house church?

13:34So that's what the government of Iran is doing towards Christians. With all these changes, their Christians are like others. They're having hope that maybe there is a bright future for the church in Iran that maybe we can gather together very soon and we can worship together loud. Did you know? Did you know Iranians watch? They love to watch worship videos from West. Both American and Iranian and Farsi worship. They love worship. And when they worship, I ask them, how do you feel? They say, we feel jealous. How come they can go to church, gather and worship? We cannot neither gather and we cannot worship loud. I had one of the leaders from Iran came to one of our conferences outside Iran and she was standing beside me and I had called the leadership together so I can train them outside Iran. I cannot go to Iran, so I bring him up.

14:34This is like last year and I saw her and she was so into worship and she was crying. She was crying out of joy. She said, what's going on? And you know what she said? She said, this is the first time I can hear myself worship. Because in Iran, when we gather, we have to be quiet. We cannot sing. We just listen and we just lip sync. And then we never sing out loud worship. So Iranians are experiencing a revival, amazing love for Christ, amazing love for the lost, amazing love to read the Bible in Obey and the church on the ground church, persecute the church in Iran, it's very strong and it's growing fast. I would love to hear that and love to hear even more about it. Are the daily conditions in Iran pretty difficult for most people? Or how does that look?

15:36Definitely, yes, definitely. I mean, you mentioned 60% is on their poverty line, which means they're worried about their next meal. I mean, that's the truth in Iran. Iran is one of the wealthiest and poorest, richest and poorest countries in the world. Richest because it has so much oil and gas and income. But poorest because the government has used it for to spread terrorism around the world, to support its proxies and to kill its own people and embezzle the rest. So the people of Iran have been suffering violence from the government, suffering with the economies being so bad. So that, and of course, Christian is the same. Christians are suffering exactly the same. But now with what's happening, there is a new era, a new day for them and hopeful maybe the future will be much better. Yeah, so just broadly speaking,

16:36I mean, it would be hard for any of us as Christians to say that we are excited about war. They're just something that doesn't feel right about that, obviously because of, I mean, people are being killed in all kinds of things going on. But overall, do you, do you see this intervention by Israel and the US as a good thing? Is it, just tell us a little bit about just what your initial reaction was when you heard about the attacks that were started a few days ago. And then tell us a little bit how personal this is for you from the standpoint of the people you know who are actually in Iran even now. Personal friends, family members, tell us how this is personal to you. Well, of course, we get involved personally because we know people like that. Been 40,000 people were killed in January. Some of them I knew, some of our members of our church, many of them were Christians.

17:37And even if they're not Christians, you know, your heart goes for them. I would say that to our staff that it's very tragic that the Christians were killed among those 40,000 people. But do you know what's more tragic is that non-Christians were killed? This Christians, we know we have eternal life, but those have no future, no salvation. So when that happened, it really grieved my heart. People we knew they were arrested, some of them were killed. And as a Christian, we shared the grief of people. We started doing a live daily broadcast just to speak to people, give them a real hope, pray for them, mourn with them, share their grief and minister to them. But now getting to this recent war, I have to give you a context. People of Iran are so miserable, have been so miserable. For the last year, they have been begging

18:38United States and Israel, would you attack us? Can you believe it? How miserable people group should be that they are asking a foreign nation, would you attack us? Life is so miserable. They feel they are hostages in the hands of Iranian regime. And they're saying, we can't release ourselves. We can't free ourselves. Because even if we speak up, we get killed. We need outside help. So they have been saying, at least for the last year, hey, Uncle Trump, by the way they call Trump, Uncle Trump, they love him so much. Uncle Trump, come and save us, come and help us. So when this war happened at the first hour of the war, the Supreme Leader was killed and people started rejoicing. You probably have seen the videos of people on street singing and dancing. Because after days and years and months of mourning, suddenly there is a good news. Supreme Leader is here no more.

19:39So I shared the grief of the people, I also shared the joy of the people. Now personally, as a Christian, if there is a regime change, it can open up. It will open up new doors for our ministry. As you know, we have shared the gospel and many, many people have come to Christ. We have a plan called return plan. We know in Iran alive what we should be doing, first week, first month. And as we look at our plans, we get so excited. So excited of the future of Iran, future of our ministry, future of church in Iran, very exciting. The reason we look at that, we have believers in every city and town that we have led to Christ. And it's just a matter of organization. When Iran opens up, we will be able to plan, tens, maybe hundreds of churches in the first three to four months. So that's personal, that's our ministry goal.

20:40And that's the joy to see bringing these people together. And let them worship God together. Wow, wow, we pray for that to happen, absolutely. Yeah. Dr. Juryat, obviously we can't go there right now. But if we could and we were able to get into the home of an Iranian family and sit down with them and they knew the government was not listening and they could speak openly. What would we hear from them? They would talk about, I think there are several topics. One is about the government and what they're doing and how they have ruined their lives. But a growing conversation is about Islam and spiritual thing. You know, human beings are spiritual. And when they speak about Islam, it's mostly negative and they make fun of the government officials and Islam.

21:42That has become a fad. It has become a pastime, a fun time. Just gather and make fun of Islam and the government of Iran make jokes. And it's out of pain, of course. That's, they've been so pain, you know, humor comes sometimes out of pain. And there's humor. They talk about what Islam and Muhammad and the prophet of Islam is because of their pain. But at the same time, they are talking about spiritual things outside Islam. Not necessarily Christian things, but spiritual things. Iran is a very spiritual, they're seeking God. So they're saying Islam is not the answer. So what else is? I still love God, I still desire God. Where, what else? That's why Iran has the fastest growing evangelical population in the world because the people are saying, I'm done with Islam. By millions, I'm done with Islam. Let's see what else is out there. And Christianity is a very, very good option. They come to Christ.

22:43And once they come to Christ, the life, their lives has changed such a dramatic visible way that it is normal in Iran. That when somebody comes to Christ, many of their friends and family members come to Christ. That's amazing, amazing what's happening on because you know, in other Islamic nation, when one person comes to Christ, these usually friends and family members who persecute them and even try to kill them, it's a reverse in Iran. Somebody comes to Christ, friends and family members, many of them make the same decision. That's why Iran has the fastest growing evangelical population in the world. Amazing, open heaven, this is history in the making. Iran is becoming, Iran will be the first nation that rejects Islam and comes to Christ. And Islam is experiencing its greatest defeat in its history in Iran today. History is in the making, not just political, spiritual and not just spiritual, biblical.

23:44Biblical prophecies are being fulfilled even today. Yeah, it sounds like you're describing a chapter out of the book of Acts is what it sounds like. And we hope it is. We hope it's an Acts 29, Acts 30 kind of experience that we are going to witness in the days, months and years to come. Gerald, you had a question. Save the audience from me and ask your next question. OK, as you're well aware, we have listened to our president talk a lot about how this action is going to make a difference in America, how it's securing the safety of Americans. And I know that in our country right now, we are, as about divided as I have ever understood us to be. And so this question may not be able to be a question you can answer for all Iranians. But what are the people in Iran really think about this conflict between Iran is real in America?

24:46Do the, does the ordinary Iranian, you think see America as a deliverer or an enemy? Are they delivering just Iran? Or are they doing something past that? Or is this a possible future, a path that is possibly a future for their country? Yes, I have to go back. This is not just recent. This is a trend among the Iranian people. They always love the America. Always love the America. Even myself, let me, let me confess something. I was on sheet of Tehran 79 and I was saying death to America, you know, death to Shah. And when I said death to America, in my heart said, not yet, please, I want to go there and get my PhD there. So I mean, Iran is always love the America. They, if they have freedom, they want to be like America, they want to have democracy, American style. And number two, they love Israel. And that trend is growing, has been growing.

25:47The last few years, people of Iran, even Muslims who used to hate the Jews right now, you ask them say, why should I hate the Jews? What did they do to have to me? It's my government that's growing my life. Not the Jews, not Israel. You are the one, you are our enemies. Israel is not our enemy. You are our enemies. You have destroyed this country, not them. You have killed us, not them. So this is a trend that Iranians love America and love Israel. And they're, they have been calling out for Trump to come and help them and save them. And if the Trump does it, which he is doing it, and if this, what has started ends in Iranian freedom, Iran, Iranians will have Trump as their hero for many, many years to come. They will be their hero. And it's amazing that Iranian people are saying, hey, come and save us, come and even come and attack us.

26:47They were saying to Netanyahu just a few months ago, hey, Netanyahu, we know what you can do. You laser accuracy, with laser accuracy, you killed the Hamas leaders, you killed Hisbalah leaders. We know even they were hiding seven stories under the ground, you got them. Would you please do the same favor to us and come and kill our supreme leader and commanders? They have been asking this from Netanyahu and Trump. So when this happened recently, that's why they're rejoicing. Now, the future, there is so much love for America and for Israel, by most Iranian, common Iranians, that I can really guarantee very soon. Iran, Israel, and US will be very close friend. As soon as this current regime comes down, very soon after, you will see that. You will see that coalition, that's love, that close relationship with these countries.

27:49Why? Because people, if you're not desiring that, they love America and Israel. They want a relationship with it. So look for it. It's going to happen soon. Yeah, that's a really good insight to something I was going to ask, which is what are the Iranian people wish that Americans understood about them? And that's a pretty good description that they're actually much more in favor of the West of America, of even Israel, that they're much more open. You don't usually say it out loud. Maybe it's the conversation you avoided. Maybe it's the article you read that unsettled you. Maybe it's the quiet question that surfaces late at night. You believe in God, you love Scripture, but sometimes you still wonder, how do I know if God is speaking to me? What is heaven really like? How do we know Jesus truly existed? Can I trust how the Bible was formed? The culture has answers, some loud, some confident, some convincing,

28:51but confidence is not the same as truth. And deep down, you do not need louder opinions. You need biblical clarity. That's why we created biblical insights to tough questions volume five. In this powerful volume, Dr. Jim Dennison explores 10 of Christianity's most challenging questions, not with speculation or shallow reassurance, but with Scripture, historical insight and thoughtful conviction. Questions about the Trinity, about heaven, about baptism, about the role of the church, about what we truly believe and why it matters. Because unanswered questions do not disappear. They shape us. But when we bring those questions to God's word, they can strengthen faith instead of shaking it. If you want a faith that stands firm in a culture of confusion, this book is for you. Visit supportdf.org to request your copy today.

29:53That supportdf.org. Get your copy today and anchor your faith in biblical truth. If you've ever wished the news felt a little less chaotic and a little more clear, Dennison Forum has created something we think you'll appreciate. It's called The Focus, a new weekly email from Dr. Ryan Dennison, one of our frequent guests here on Faith in Clarity. Every Tuesday, Ryan highlights three to five key stories from the week. Curated, so you don't have to dig through the endless headlines, along with a deep dive into one critical cultural issue. He also adds in a God is Good segment that highlights an uplifting story. The goal of The Focus is to help you answer what do I need to know from the last week? Why does it matter and how can I stay hopeful? If you appreciate this podcast or the daily article newsletter,

30:56but would like a wider snapshot of what's happening, then The Focus is for you. You can subscribe to receive The Focus newsletter now at DennisonForum.org forward slash newsletters. Or find the link in the show description. Then eager to have a relationship, even though the government of the last 50 years has made it virtually impossible for that to happen. It's almost unthinkable in America today that anybody from here would want to or be able to travel to Iran. We remember the hostage crisis. We remember just all of this conflict and all of this animosity between our countries for almost 54 years. Dr. Sherado is just gonna ask, if you could wave a wand and tomorrow,

31:56Iran was totally free. You've mentioned that you believe that you could plant dozens of churches within a matter of months. Do you think that there would be the growth of other religions? Do you think that secularism would come back the way it was during the days of the Shah before the Islamic Revolution in 1979? What do you think or what would you anticipate not only about Christianity, but the pursuit of other faith as well? Very good question. Yes, to be realistic, very evan opens up. The number one religion would be secularism, not Christianity. To start, of course, we have a work to do, but there will be a good number of Christians which by their lifestyle and behavior, they could bring other people to Jesus, but realistically, Iranians even today, majority, they are saying we are done with anything spiritual,

32:58we're done with any religion, not spirituality. They're still hungry for special things. We did a survey, you might be interested in this. We paid for a survey two years ago. We paid a company inside Iran, a secular company. We gave them a set of 40, 50 questions and asked a few thousand people we want to know the answer. And we realized people have rejected God. Many of them have rejected organized religion, but they're still open to spirituality. They want to know true God. They want to have a relationship with God whoever he is, but not in religion. So Iranians are still hungry for a relationship with God. By the way, another thing we found that might be interested to you and your audience. In our survey, we asked people's attitude towards Islam. And then if 10 questions later, we asked the same question.

33:59What do you think about Jesus and Christianity? 84% said we are done with Islam. We don't think Islam is from God. Many of them said Islam is from Satan. Very negative of Islam, 84%. And 92% of them said we have a very positive of Jesus and Christianity. So it's no wonder they're so open to the Gospel. But we have to... This is what we're doing. Understand where the people are. Post it, I became all things to all people. And we're trying to do the same. Gospel doesn't change. The content is the same, but the... The cup that you give it away, the cup that you serve the gospel could change. So we are studying where the young people of Iran are and where the people are thinking and we present the Gospel that way. And let me share a big victory.

35:01Once we did that two years ago, we did that survey, we realized we are losing the young people. That people are coming to Christ are mostly older, over 40, over 50. And not many people are coming to Christ through us who are under 20, under 25. But that survey showed us how to approach the youth in Iran. And I'm here to joyfully report to you. We change our messaging. We change our social media, totally change what we put on social media. And the one of the strongest successes, I would say, is that the number of the youth coming to Christ has jumped significantly. So we are connecting with the youth in Iran. So we have to, coming back to you, yes, I think when Iranian government changes, I think people will, number one, will be focused on a secular democracy there.

36:03That's, they think that would be the best for the future of Iran. That would pay, they would pay attention to it. They will not be much interested in spiritual things, but we will continue our messaging. And when I believe they will go to our secular democracy for maybe a year, two years, maybe three years, but they're going to be let down because they cannot bring that. You know better than me, the Middle East culture does, cannot sustain democracy. Democracy comes from a biblical worldview. And even if Iran becomes a democratic government, it's going to be just a couple of years. And they will be the solution again. Let me, let me solve it up. No matter what happens, we have a mission. Have you have a mission? We're going to do our part. Absolutely, absolutely. Just a moment ago, you talked about the young mother, 17 years,

37:04christencens for attending worship. With that, we still hear great reports about Christianity growing. Is that overall of Iran? Yes, yes. Some areas we've done studies. There's some areas that the growth is faster and some areas slower, but all of Iran. And the amazing areas, one is Mashad. Mashad is a very religious city and that has the fastest growing number of believers there. Then south of Iran, people are open. Yeah, the signal, the message goes all over the country. Even villages are receiving our signal. They're hearing the gospel and many of them are coming to Christ. We are getting reports of, sometimes even the whole village have come to Christ. It's amazing. Let me do a follow-up about the government. One thing that I've been told I've read

38:05is that there is, the government's used in formats for years and people are secretly spat upon. They tell what they're doing, what they're saying back to the government. Those people are even paid for that. If we get past this war to a place where people have a chance to openly worship again and we look for something to where we can, as you said earlier, sing loudly. Tell your story. What do you think the church is gonna be able to overcome the distrust that this government has put into the people for each other for decades? How does the church overcome that? How do we renew that openness and trust for one another? Very good question. That's a Christian strategy. And what I mean is, yes, this trust towards religious people

39:06and even our channel people come and first they say, oh, this is another religion. And we don't trust this. This is a, they sometimes they call me a mullah with a tie. This is a Christian mullah with a tie. And the same thing, and that's what they think. But what changes their mind is they see and they sense this is different. So the number one impact of the gospel in Iran is not just us. We shared the gospel. But the war is not enough. The number on impact of the gospel in Iran is the people who have come to Christ and their lives have been changed. And everybody notices. They say, you used to be depressed. Now you have so much joy. You have so much peace. You have so much respect. You used to be so disrespectful to your parents. Now you're respectful. So knowing that when Iran opens up, the behavior of Christians, the love, the kindness they show towards non-believers

40:07and towards each other. Isn't that biblical? They will know that you're my disciples by your love, right? This is such an impactful, when we love one another. Let me share a personal story. I was a pastor in California. And people would come to Christ. I would baptize them. And more than once, I asked the person that I was about to baptize. I usually ask them a short testimony. And they, and this is a kind of repeated different forms, testimony. I would ask them, how did you come to Christ? He said, they would say, because of love, and I ask them, oh, because you came to church and we loved you, we accepted you, we took care of you. And more than once, they said, no. But when you came, when your Christians came to, and loved us, loved me, I was suspicious. They said, hey, they're pretending to love me

41:09to make me a Christian. I'm not going to be a Christian. I'm not going to, I'm not going to be deceived. They're loved me, so they're kind to me to make me a Christian. So I ask them, so how did you come to Christ? And they say, when we saw your love for one another, when do you see, I saw Christians loving one another, respecting one another. That proof to me that this is real, is not just me, it's real. So for the future of Iran, we have trained. This is not a new concept. We have trained, we call them army of love, that the Christians number one is that you love. During this protest, many of them were outside, we're out on streets, loving people. We send them out by tens of thousands of Christians were out there, I told them, and they did it, you know? I told them to do it and they do it. I ask them, go out there, you know, share the gospel, pray for people. And by the way, take some water and some sandwiches

42:09and your backpack and just serve them. And many of them, I told them if some people are wounded, bring them to bring them home and serve them. And we have testimonies of Muslims being served in a house by the Iranian Christians and they come to Christ when they're being served. You know, when people are shot, they cannot go to the hospital, right? Because they executed in the hospital. So they go home and people of Iran already are doing it. But when Iran opens up, our love for one another would be the best sign that God is with us. Scripture tells us to pray for one another. We pray for those in authority. We pray for other nations. And so it's very easy for us to know the right thing to do is to pray. And so as we pray, I think sometimes, however, we are praying through a cultural lens that we have in America. And we may not be praying exactly the way you would think

43:10would be most effective. Can you tell us how best to pray for your country? Yeah, you know, prayer has power and we are authorized to use that power. So let's use the authority God has given us. We have a license to use the name of Jesus. Let's use that license and pray and we are, we have the power to bind and to release. So my number one prayer request is to pray against this spirit of murder, which is in Islam. Why? Because it's still possible that the government that's left over to survive, they may still use violence. They may still kill people because that's the only way they know what to do, how to do to survive. So let's pray against that spirit of murder. Number two, pray for Christians. When I ask them, how do I, how can we pray for you? This is the two things they ask me.

44:12They tell me and they say pray for courage. We don't want to be, we don't want to be afraid. We don't want to be afraid because they kill 40,000 and we just go and hide in our homes. We want to continue to be hands of God, the voice of God, the mouth of God to these people. So courage, isn't that the book of Acts, the persecuted, they said, oh God, give us courage. Give us wisdom. So number three, they ask for wisdom. They say there's so many things coming and we get confused. What should we do? What should we do in the war? And dangers. So they said we want to hear God clearly because we want to obey Him, but we need to hear Him. And so these are the prayer requests that the church in heaven wants to be a salt and light and they need our support, they need our prayer and they need God's direction. You know, in America we, we're very careful. We don't want persecution. We don't want persecution as Christians.

45:12Never in a million years would I want that. But I read about it, I hear about it. I talk to people who go through it. What do you think that God has taught the people in Iran, the Christians in Iran through persecution? Hang on to the Lord, you have nobody else, you have no other option, just walk with the Lord. That's your only hope, that's the only option. You know, that's why when I see Americans in the West being a great disciples of Christ, I tell them, I value you because in America, we're so comfortable. Really being dedicated to Jesus is an option. You're going to church is an option. Reading your Bible is an option, praying and worshiping is an option because we have a comfortable life. Not for them, this is their lifeline. Walking with Jesus, hearing Him, reading His Word, praying, that's their lifeline. And many of them are doing that.

46:13And by the way, there is a move of God among them, but signs and wonders and miracles. It's so common in Iran that people who contact us and I talk, I have to ask them, have you seen Jesus? Has he ever healed you? They don't, they're not excited about it. They think it's normal. This person said, I saw Jesus and he healed my cancer. I was dying and he appeared to me, he healed my cancer. Then I was thinking, I have to ask him. He doesn't offer his testimony like that. I have to ask him, what happened to you? Have you ever seen Jesus? Yes, has he done a miracle for you? Yes, he healed my, he appeared to me, he healed my cancer. Then I was thinking, if this happened to an American, one of us in America, we probably will have multiple interviews and maybe write a book, I saw Jesus and Jesus healed me. And because it's so rare here, but for them, it's so normal. Another amazing, positive thing, there's an anointing,

47:16there's a move of God there. Many of these people, many of Iranian Christians, they haven't yet been taught that miracles ceased and visions are not for today. Many of them are healed or saw Jesus and they have this natural faith that they go and pray for other people. And they come again, without boasting, they just report. I prayed for that person, his cancer was gone. I prayed and healing. So there is a move of God that just four Christians, but through Christians, there's something like that they pray for people and they report to me miracles. No, wow. Yeah, we need more of that. We need, we need a lot more of that here, for sure. And maybe what God is stirring, Dr. Dineson says all the time, God redeems all that he allows.

48:17Now, sometimes he does that on very long timetables that we wish were shorter, but we believe that God does and will redeem all that he allows, including what is going on in Iran right now. You've got a thought that you want to share, don't you? Well, this is, all glory has to go to God, you know? He is the one who opens nations. He is the one who opens hearts. And I feel sometimes Lord telling us, hey, to his children, mostly in the West, I think this is the message he's saying, I've done everything I could. I died on the cross for these Muslims. And I love him so much. I make a special appearance to them. Okay, I've opened their hearts. I appeared to them. Now I've done everything. Could you do your part? Just share the gospel with them. Their hearts are open. Amazing, but you know, our channel,

49:20let me share this on our channel. You know, we're very good at evangelism by God's grace, but sometimes I'm preaching to Christians. My message, my sermon is just for Christians, okay? And in the middle of sermon, I said, okay, I'm going to take a two minute break from my sermon to Christians and share a short version of the gospel. What? You know, who Jesus is, what he did for you? And I did it. I take a break, two minutes version of the gospel. Can you believe it? People start contacting and coming to Christ, a two minute version. So to sum it up, history is in the making in Iran, and let's align ourselves with God. Let's not just watch history be history makers. Jesus has done everything, opened a nation and Islamic nation is open to the gospel. People are hungry for the word of God. They come to Christ. They beg us, please teach us, teach us. We want to grow. So Jesus has done everything.

50:21It's up to us now to move and obey him and partner with him and make him on the first Islamic nation that turns to Christ. Yeah, and then, and you know, I have a, Dr. Sherry, I have a friend who sometimes prays, God, we come to church and we hear the stories of what you did a long time ago. We want to be a part of the story you're writing right now. We want to be a part of that right now. And so I'm just, yeah, we just so much more we could talk about, like I said, if we could just get you to be excited a little bit, we would have a good conversation. But it's, it's so clear that God has given you such a passion for your homeland. As we get ready to close, I wanted to ask you, Dr. Sherry, how many years has it been since you were in Iran? I came out at 79. I came to Christ in 1980. I started sharing the gospel. And in the beginning years, I couldn't afford to go back.

51:22I was a student, a poor student. But by the time I could afford, we should have had a job. The government of Iran already knew about me and they were threatening me because I was studying to plan the church. So I haven't been back since 79. But I've been there many times almost every day through satellite television. Right, so let's just think for a moment. Let's dream for a moment that a year from now, six months from now, 16 months from now, that God does a work that we would just be astounded by. Not through the American military, not through Israeli ingenuity, as great as those things are in every way. But in a way that we would, we and hopefully the whole world would just stand back and say, this was what God did. This is not what any other nation did or any other person. This is what God did. If you were able to get on a plane

52:24with reasonable confidence and safety and go back to Iran, where would you first go, what would you first do? Great question. I've been thinking about it and we have been planning the number one, go to Tehran first because that's the center. And the first thing would be to gather the harvest. I was just telling our leaders, the first thing we need to do, we have worked for 25 years and we have 120,000 people who have contacted us prayed with us to receive Christ. And we know there are two to three million believers there, not connected to anybody. So the first step is to gather the harvest. These believers isolated, not connected to anyone. Many of them are connected to us. That's why I say we can plant tens, maybe hundreds of churches. So the first would be gather the harvest is already there and train them, teach them, and they already have passion.

53:27They already have passion. It's not hard to gather and teach them. They love it. So gather the believers, give them training and set them loose. You said there are two million, maybe three million, but because of the passion, if you train them a little bit, these two million could easily become four million in less than six months. That's just mathematics. Yeah, yeah. Well, coming from a guy that studied AI, we're gonna trust you know the math better than we do. Yeah, well, before we close, before we go, Gerald, can I just ask you to lead us in prayer for, obviously for Dr. Sherrod in his ministry, but even more so for the country of Iran and what God wants to redeem in these days. Could you lead us in prayer? I will, but I also want to say, Mark, I thought you were getting ready to announce the trip of the three of us going there. When that was gonna be, and I was getting pretty excited about that, but let's close and clear. All right, please do.

54:28Heavenly Father, we are so grateful for all that you're doing in the world and we ask, first of all, that you'd forgive us for not recognizing that you are always at work, always. And that you were doing things that we do not understand things that we would be absolutely just so happy over. But we don't always listen, we don't always look. But in this case, Lord, we see that you're doing something as Dr. Sherrod said earlier, it's historic. And I pray that he is absolutely right, for it's prophetic that this is the first Islamic country that will turn to Christ and truly from there. I can just imagine this country being a beacon for Christ to all the nations around. Lord, you're able to do so much more than we ever ask. You're able to move hearts. You're able to move the hearts of the king and the hearts of all the people of a nation. Lord, so we just wanna pray that during this time,

55:30first of all, for safety for those, Lord, who were praying for their protection. I know that these military strikes are supposed to be going after leaders and people that could harm the people, people that are standing in the way of the freedom of the people of Iran. And so Lord, I pray for safety there. I pray, Lord, is little loss of life as possible. I wanna pray right now for what we were just told to pray for, and that is against the spirit of murder, against the spirit that would have people just want to take life. And we understand where that comes from, because that comes from the enemy, who is a murderer and a liar. And we know that to destroy the image of God and a person is again to take a strike against God. And so Lord, I do pray for that. I pray for that spirit to be put down. I pray for instead there to be a spirit of acceptance and love for one another and forgiveness for one another.

56:31I pray also, Lord, for the courage that we ask to pray for. The courage for those that are there to understand there may be a time coming very soon where they can take a stand and do something for their own good to get the freedom that they need. And we know Lord that the gospel can be spread anywhere, but we would love to see it open enough to where we could make a real difference in that country, help them whatever way we can. And then of course, Lord, we pray for wisdom. We pray, Lord, that you will give us and give the people of Iran wisdom to know. First of all, that they need to turn to Jesus. They need to take responsibility for their own spiritual lives. I'm so grateful there are spiritual people. I'm so grateful, Lord, you put that within all of us that we have a desire to know you, to reach out to you, to connect with you. And Lord, I just, this makes me think of a future day in heaven where we will all be as one and we'll be able to worship you without fear of being allowed, without fear of being heard and seen and reported.

57:35But for now, Lord, may your kingdom continue to expand upon this earth. May you be glorified in all this done. I pray for Dr. Sharat that you'll bless him and help him as he serves in this ministry. And I pray for Dinesden Ministries, Lord, as they continue to shine a lot on to culture with biblical views. Lord, help us to serve you, to love you, and we ask Him in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much. Dr. Sharat, tell us real quick, where can people find more about your ministry at Iran Alive? Where can they go and find that information? I can go to our website, IranAlive.org. But there's an even simpler way. If you just text the word Iran, I-R-A-N to this number 85789. So you, instead of putting somebody's phone number, just put 85789, 85789. And text the word Iran.

58:35What you get is a set of links, some links to amazing testimonies, links to sign up for a newsletter, which I encourage you to do it. The least you get, not just informed of what's happening, you will get amazing, encouraging testimonies. So sign up for a newsletter. There's links to our website and link to it. Donate if the Lord leads you to support this ministry. Well, thank you for that. We will include all of that in our show notes. And we will hope that people will pray about it and be led by the Lord to become partners with you in many, many ways, starting obviously with prayer. I want to thank our audience for being a part of this conversation today. Obviously, much more to come around the story of Iran and what God will do in amazing ways. We will continue to pray for it. Thank you for being a part of our audience today. And we'll see you next time on Faith in Clarity.