Inside China’s push to become the world’s AI superpower

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1:00The last time President Xi Jinping visited the White House for an official state visit, things were a little different. It was September of 2015. Barack Obama was the US President. He stood beside his Chinese counterpart in the Rose Garden and spoke of expanding cooperation, climate change and cybercrime. It's another reminder that as we work to narrow our differences, we can continue to advance our mutual interest for the benefit not only of our two peoples but for the benefit of the world. Later that night, Obama hosted a lavish state dinner for Xi. The guest list included the tech titans of the time, but no Elon Musk or Sam Altman.

2:05After all, OpenAI was still months away from being founded. On Thursday, Xi Jinping returns to the White House for the first time in more than a decade, to a different host and a markedly different world order. This summit comes in the midst of a tentative trade truce between the US and China, and tensions in Taiwan. And on top of that, there are now these fresh, dire warnings that the speed of AI development in the midst of the fierce AI race between China and the US could accidentally lead to a total catastrophe for humanity. How did artificial intelligence become one of the most crucial issues between these two countries? And how is it shifting their power dynamics? From the BBC, I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. And today, on the global story, I speak to my colleague Laura Bicker, who reports from inside China and the countries pushed to become the world's AI superpower.

3:09Well, Laura Bicker, welcome back to the global story. A very friendly face by now, but it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. So thank you. We're lovely to be here. We are speaking with you ahead of President Xi Jinping's visit to the United States. He is going to be meeting with President Trump here in Washington, D.C. And we'll get into more of the specifics about what they are expected to discuss in this high-stakes meeting. But the visit is coming off the back of, I would say, a frenzied couple of weeks in the world of artificial intelligence. This was sparked in fact, we did an episode here of the global story on this by these comments that were made by a former anthropic researcher who publicly resigned over safety concerns, essentially warning that AI could potentially kill us all, which sounded very dire. And then as that went on, we heard from some of the leading big AI tech bosses publicly calling for a slowdown in AI development.

4:09The United States also totally rejects any attempt to construct a global scheme to control for the artificial intelligence. And in response to some of those dire alarm bells, we saw President Trump reject those concerns. Whoever wins, super intelligent wins. That's the group that wins. And we're leading now over China by a lot and everyone else. And we're going to keep it that way. And it's all happening this meeting in the context of this, what I would describe is AI tech race between China and the United States. And so Laura, that is where I want to begin with you today with your reporting on the Chinese side of that AI tech race. I know you've been reporting on this. What have you seen? Where have you been? A heads of this big summit. We decided to head to Inner Mongolia. It's not too far a drive from Beijing. We wanted to see for ourselves the infrastructure going in here in China to support China's push towards artificial intelligence.

5:12So let me give you a picture of Inner Mongolia. This is a natural frontier. You're looking at rolling grasslands. And you might remember some of the pictures of Herdsman and nomadic life where they put up the Yurts. Part of that still exists. But as you now drive through the winding roads of Inner Mongolia to the left and right, you see towering wind turbines. You see a sea of solar panels all facing the sun. This is part of China's renewable push. And this is one of the reasons why they have put data centers here. So for data centers, China's thinking as you need two things. You need vast open space, which Inner Mongolia has. And you need this kind of way of powering them. Now China wants its data centers to be powered more by renewable energy.

6:13There's a kind of plan to get at least 80% of them powered by renewables. So as you drive up, you come down over the grassland and you see potato farms, you see sheep herders, where you might get some of your cashmere jumpers. And then rising out of there, come these new structures and they are huge. If you look at an airport, let's put two of those airports together. And it's line after line, layer after layer of what look like a little bit like shipping containers. But they're basically data storage. And then not only are you saying that, you're seeing more being built. So above it, you see these cranes and constant motion. There's sparks from welding going on. There are men climbing up ladders. And what we spoke to workers there, what they were telling us is,

7:14you know, there are different phases of development. There is one phase of construction every year. This is the second phase. There are more to come. This has been a 75 billion US dollar investment. This is what they call and what many people here in China call China's speed. Oh, yes. So how quickly are these going up? Oh, my goodness. So like a few months beforehand, apparently, we were told that some of it was just farmland. So now, you know, you're looking at miles and miles of data centers. And on that trip to inner Mongolia, Laura, what did you hear from some of the locals? And I asked this knowing full well again that here in the United States, the construction of data centers has become a really hot button political issue. And frankly, as one of the few things, sometimes you see Republicans and Democrats agree on in their distaste for them. Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the interesting things. I mean, obviously when it comes to surveys in China, it's quite difficult to know who's been asked and how transparent they are.

8:14But when you look at a stand for the I index, there does seem to be a suggestion that people here are slightly more favorable. So we wanted to test that on the ground. And certainly we found a lot of construction workers or say, look, I've got work out of this. Sure. But when it comes to locals, the opinion was a bit more divided than we'd expected. It doesn't do much good for us locals. They need educated people, and they don't need that many workers. For me, I can only do some hard manual labor. Of course, we got a couple of locals who are like, like, this, this is China on top, China's leading the world, China's an infrastructure maniac was one quote. So it's a source of national pride. But off camera, one of the local farmers pulled as a side, and told us that a lot of this was propaganda, that they felt that when it came to these data centers, there were no local benefits. There were no jobs for local people,

9:15that this was being built on farmers land, and they weren't getting properly compensated. If they demolished the village for a data center, it won't be good. I prefer living by the farmland. We did find farmers who said, look, it hasn't changed my life either way. We're now both the center of potatoes, corn, herdsmen, and data centers. Of course, the data center brings us benefits. It creates jobs. President Xi is raising living standards for the Chinese people. China is also growing. We are now leading the world. This is no longer the China from the 1960s. But he left. I mean, this is a farmer that probably gets paid. It's about 3,000 Kui. So that's about maybe what, $450 a month to farm. So he's got sheep, he's got cows, he's got fast land.

10:18And he's driving around when in the tract, and there's dog Huahua, it's behind and running alongside us. I said, you know, is AI a big thing for you? And he went, what would I use it for? He said, there's no way I'd use it. He got out his pocket, and he handed this phone in. It was covered in cracks. Absolutely covered in cracks. I said, well, do you have Wi-Fi? He went, I look, look, I've got Wi-Fi, and he brought out his other pocket, and it was a little, kind of, Wi-Fi device. This is all otherwise, I don't get Wi-Fi. So you can see, I think one of the things I'm trying to explain to you is there are two China's, and you and I have talked about this before. One of this is this China pushing towards a technological future, pushing to be right at the leading edge of AI technology. But it's also taking place in a region, and in an area that shows just how far China has yet to go. And I think it's a reminder,

11:19as President Xi Jinping arrives, heads to the White House. And as he heads into these talks, China's economy is not doing as well as China would hope. And right now, there is no site, the artificial intelligence, is the thing that will save it for the future. Now, President Xi keeps talking about ways that this will be, that this will help us country in the future. Yes, it helps the stature of China. It helps China on the global stage. It gives China a negotiating point to set across the table from the United States. But when it comes to people on the ground and the current economy, those are the kind of things that it doesn't solve right now. It is striking to hear you talk about a leader and the government promoting the development of this technology, because I certainly hear echoes of that Laura here as well when you look at public opinion surveys, I think it's over 60%, sometimes 70% of Americans oppose the construction of an AI data center in their local community.

12:19And yet, we see, as I mentioned, Donald Trump saying that we need to build these data centers, he seems to believe that it is a major boost for the United States economy as well. But this isn't all about data centers and infrastructure. And it sounds like in China, there is also a heavy focus on building education and skills. As it relates to AI, I know you've been doing reporting as well on that, Laura. And I'm curious what that looks like. So there are a couple of things. This is one way China hopes to win a tech war against the United States. Bye. First of all, when it comes to learning code, when it comes to learning about AI, it's integrated into the skill curriculum right from kindergarten. I've been to factories where they're making toys, coding toys, to teach young children how to code. Just put it in a result. This chess playing vault is possible because the company used AI to help manufacture the mechanical arm.

13:21This is how to capture Bisher. We have been looking fascinated at these robots that play chess. And then one mother said, look, you can come to my house for tea, you can watch to me play with this robot. We are great. So there we went. My name is Timmy. I'm eight years old. And look, he hardly kept time to speak to me because he was so engrossed in the game with this robot. Which talks to him, which interacts with him as he places each of the pieces. And his mom said, look, it's become one of his friends. You know, Jinalora. It is the inevitable trend. We need to coexist with it. Children should get to know it as early as possible, by someplace with AI. And during the process, he's growing a strong emotional attachment with it. And you could see him learn along the way, and he proudly tells me, look, I'm even up a level. And then the robot helps reset the game and says, well done, you played really well there. So there's a nice bit of encouragement.

14:22And then you've got the next laid up, even within the school curriculum, they're making sure that artificial intelligence robotics is part of it. And then as an adult, if you don't know anything about AI, there are AI study centers scattered right across the country. You can learn about AI for as much as you like. And then take it up further. So we've been speaking to many people within University, University students who study AI. And you know, when it comes to that, what China is trying to do is keep its home grown type. Home grown talent within China. In the past, there was this mass movement. If you were a high level, high achieving student, you maybe wanted to go to Harvard, Yale, you maybe wanted to study the United States. There's a confluence of factors now keeping them in China. We have spoken to quite a few students who are finding it really hard to get a visa. So when it comes to that kind of cushioned infrastructure, to try to propel China forward,

15:24not perhaps getting the leading edge now, but in the future, that is what China is trying to do. Also, I think it's worth mentioning here in China, there is the propaganda to push it forward. So Chinese state media, any China's a win. It's all over the front pages. And if anybody writes about it in foreign media, it's also put on the front pages. So when it comes to China, and China's message to its people, that kind of message is one of the reasons why, perhaps why, when it comes to surveys about artificial intelligence, Chinese people responded to the Stanford AI Index survey far more favorably. So I think, you know, when it comes to the risk posed by AI, do you think that AI poses a risk very, very low numbers here in China, maybe 20%, 30% compared to higher numbers, maybe 70% in the US? So it's very, very different approaches. The overall attitude, Laura, you're describing one of which so many people seem to be embracing the benefits of AI,

16:25with it sounds like very little concern of the risks. And I wanted to ask you about that. When in China, they hear the alarm bells being run by some of these tech leaders about the dangers of AI and the public calls to slow down the development. What's the reaction? There is a feeling, as soon as you hear these kind of words, China starts to bristle. And the reason China starts to bristle is because, certainly, the government believes this is a way to contain China, to constrain its rise when it comes to AI. We heard it from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. You're asking us all to slow down because you're worried about China's rise. That is the message that they put forward. And we started to see kind of messages throughout the newspapers and throughout state media saying, China's approach to AI is for the good of humanity. China's approach to AI is more open. And that is because China's approach is open weight models. So basically that means that they write the code and they publish it.

17:26That allows them to say to the likes of the global south. Okay, you've got your American models. They won't show you what code they're using. Here's our code. Do with it what you like. So you can adapt to your own country. That means that countries could be adopting Chinese systems. And it also means Chinese apps getting more and more used around perhaps large parts of the population. So that's their big selling point. And that's what they start kind of pushing forward saying, look, China's AI is for everyone. And so you're not hearing any calls from tech CEOs in China that echo what we've heard from some of the American CEOs. None. Absolutely no evidence that they want to slow down. What you've got to understand is that there's a very state led. So any tech CEO who deizes his head would be in direct opposition to what the government says and direct opposition to Xi Jinping. And that is not something as a tech CEO

18:27who needs government support you're going to do. Meet the Red Bull Dragonberry Emergize. It's one of the many new drinks out now. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire? Try them all only at McDonald's. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start, Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between Matt Paint Finish and Satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today. So if we can turn to the specifics of this meeting between Xi Jinping and Donald Trump this week. Earlier this month we saw the US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent say

19:29There is no day after tomorrow if China wins at this. Like everything, a trillion-a-half dollar defense budget, the iron dome, if they were to pull away for us on AI, then nothing would matter. That sounded like a really dire warning from the Trump administration about what they feel is at stake here. He has said the Treasury Secretary that the US is open to discussing AI and shared risks with China. And so that's the sort of rhetoric we have been hearing from some within the Trump administration leading up to this meeting. I want to ask what you have been hearing from China and what you think Xi Jinping will want from this meeting specifically as it relates to AI. I think expectations are very low. Firstly, if both sides kind of get e that there are risks because I think both do agree there are risks, then perhaps some kind of notification,

20:30some kind of way of making sure they can mitigate those risks. But China will want to push to write the rules on AI. President Xi Jinping went to India a couple of weeks back at the Brick Summit and there he talked about AI and he talked about the need for a global governance system. Now we don't really know what this framework looks like and he has been calling for this since 2018. So he's hoping to push the US on it. Yeah, for quite a some time, push the US on this. Now what we're hearing from the current talks are happening is that the US idea is that they have this kind of early warning system, kind of notification system. So say something goes wrong. Well, hopefully not as catastrophic as we've heard about it. But say something goes wrong, especially when it comes to national security they warn the other. It reminded me of the Cold War. The Red Fones. Yeah. Where they read? I think we always assumed it. I think we always assumed they were red. But it reminded me of that. It reminded me of all remember when we had the missile crisis. Yes. And remember when we had this, we had to have these hotlines to avoid anything happening.

21:33Yes. So now we're saying there's kind of call for a notification. Now I might be wrong, but this is what I'm hearing right now. The best we can hope for in this scenario is that both sides agree that there's a risk and something has to be done about it. I can't manage the problem. Of course. You acknowledge the problem. The problem is they can't even agree on how to deal with it. At this moment, they may surprise us. You never know. But part of the problem is those dire warnings contained barbed words at China. So the anthropocsia, for instance, also described China's rise with an AI technology as a threat to national security. China will not like to be singled out. It will not like to be told that it is a problem to be dealt with, to be contained. So I think the language has to be careful here. When we talk about national security, I remember during the Biden administration, there were quite stringent restrictions on the export of really advanced chips to China. These are chips that could be used in the development of artificial intelligence.

22:37Those export controls have since been loosened under the Trump administration. And I have been trying to compute what exactly the Trump administration's approaches to China because they continuously say that the United States need to win this race. But some would argue that the US has perhaps inadvertently given away the keys to the castle with loosening these export controls. And I want to understand how that conversation on export controls is viewed in China. Some exports controls are still in place. And many of them are. So the high-end chips still can't come to China. I think the conversation here is the United States, whoever is in charge, is trying to contain China, is trying to stop China's rise. So does China come into these meetings this week wanting to maintain these loosened export controls? And I guess the reverse to this question, Laura, is does China have something that the US really needs?

23:40So first of all, it all comes back down to trade and the truths that was agreed. So when it came to that October truth, they basically managed to come to an agreement on trade where China would buy more soybeans from the United States. And when it came to the US, they would get more access to the likes of rares, not all access, but some access to rares. China in return would get access to some of the high-end chips, not the highest end, but some of the high-end chips. So those were some of the bargaining tools that both sides used to finally get an agreement last year. That runs out in November. Okay. So there is an urgency there to try to get an agreement on trade. And that includes getting those high-end chips. What's the odds of this trade truth being extended? I think the trade truth could be very well be extended. I mean, I'm just guessing here. Okay. In terms of what one wants from the other, I think what will be top of President Xi Jinping's list?

24:40Will it be those high-end chips or will he think he's doing okay on his own? Or will it be Taiwan? Because President Xi will fail that after the last meeting when President Trump came here. You may remember that conversation on the plane on the way home where Donald Trump started echoing President Xi's language on Taiwan. And on Taiwan, he doesn't want to see a movement for independence. He says, look, we've added for thousands of years. And then at a certain period of time, in the left, they were going to get it back. They want those arms sales, massive package of arms sales that's been in the pipeline to Taiwan ended. And the conversation that has been going from China to the United States very, very heavily is that when it comes to Taiwan, one, it is the reddest of red lines. Do not step on it. And secondly, Donald Trump had said on the plane, I think the last thing we need right now is a war. That's 9,500 miles away.

25:41I think that's the last thing we need. We don't very well. That is the message that actually is coming from President Xi. He is saying, you cannot afford to be fighting a war. So why would you intervene in an area that's not yours, on an island that's not yours? And if you continue to sell these arms, there's going to be trouble. A year ago, Laura, I am not sure that I wouldn't have thought AI would be one of, if not perhaps, the most pressing issue that we're hearing about as Xi Jinping and Donald Trump sit down to speak with one another here in person. We talked a lot on this show about the new shifting world order. And how do you see AI at all shifting the power dynamics between these two? I see it as part of a pattern. I see from China's perspective, when it comes to this global power dynamic, as President Xi flies to the United States, as Donald Trump is there on the tarmac we're hearing, to meet him.

26:41He will see it as an indication of my country, my leadership is in the spotlight, because we have made inroads in artificial intelligence. And so China will see this conversation as part of a shifting global dynamic, where it is now a real key player to be sitting down at the table as equals. Because I think way back, you know, perhaps President Xi's last visit, that was not the case. Here we are 10 years later. And China is a completely different country, really pushing forward. And when it comes to this kind of global power dynamic, President Xi will feel, yes, he's second right now, but his narrative is the East is rising, the West is declining. And that is how he'll sit down at that table over those talks.

27:47Well, on that note, thank you Laura for joining us. We always appreciate your reporting. Thank you for having me. Love to speak to you soon. That was Laura Bicker, the BBC's China correspondent. And remind you that here on the global story, as you all probably know by now, we dive deep every weekday on one big story. If you're also looking for a way to catch up on the latest news headlines, then we recommend checking out our sister show, the Global News Podcast. Today's episode was produced by Sam Chanturasek and Lucy Paul. It was edited by Bridget Harnie and mixed by Travis Evans. Our digital producer was Sam Grooei. Our senior news editor is China Collins. And I'm Asma Khalid. That's it for today. Thanks as always for spending some time with us. And we'll be back again tomorrow.