How to Make $600K a Month With Ai SaaS - Brett Malinowski

0:00Flowing ad-bunch it on metrics that look great, till the CFO sees them, that's Bullspend. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the Bullspend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign term secretions apply. Call us footballers back. So, Hilton called to me the superstition concierge to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching bandwick up call it 555 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for this day.

1:00This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. For 125 years, Nordstrom has been part of your story. The stylist who found the perfect outfit for your big interview. The first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old. The tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe. These are the moments that make Nordstrom. Nordstrom. Bigger a small. We're here for all of it. Celebrating 125 years with new moments still add. Discover it all in Nordstrom stores and at Nordstrom.com. All right, Daniel. A year ago, you were on this podcast and you were making $500,000 a month of 15. Now, it's a year later. How much money are you making? Okay, so I'm 17 now and across all my businesses, we're doing around a million dollars a month in revenue. Dude, this blows my mind. I just like, I tell people this in your life and they just don't believe it. So, the last podcast you were doing Snapchat shows. Yeah. And you were running it up and you were just making short form content on Snapchat and they were paying you ad revenue. Yeah. But since then, you've switched to YouTube and you've kind of built this entire new system.

2:04So, what are you doing now? Yeah. So, after Snapchat completely died, I had to pivot to something else. I went from making six figures a month to pretty much like very low five figures. Pretty much nothing compared to what I was making. And I'd always had experience in short form. I did Snapchat short form. So, now I was going to pivot into something that I was good at short form again. So, I started YouTube shorts, which were just another way to create these short videos. And they started paying like a couple thousand per month because the RPM started to go up. And so, as I saw that there was like really money making potential here, I started to dive a bit deeper and deeper and deeper into it, eventually launching more channels that were actually making five figures a month again. With Snapchat, I was doing a side hustle. And they didn't want to do a side hustle again. I didn't want to fall into the same trap of having it all potentially go away. Because I felt as though I had enough experience now to dive into real business. Which is when I met my partner, Moosa, Liam, etc. where we thought of the idea for Krayo. Krayo was basically the solution to our problem with making short form videos

3:06where it took us a long time to edit these videos. And if we hired out editors for them, the turnaround would be a long time. It was just not as efficient as we wanted it to be. So, that's when we decided late 2023 to start building the software company out. And that was also whilst I was still running these short accounts. And so, a month after month, the software company was being built, being built. It was something that I had there. I was like, okay, this software company is being built. I don't know if it's going to do that much, but it's an asset that I guess I'm building now. We launch first month, we do around 50K. Great money. But obviously, I was making six figures of the side hustle. Month two, we make 70K. Month three, we make 150. Month four, month five, month six. And now, our software company is doing like five to 600 grand a month in revenue on very lean margins, like a very powerful company on top of the course that I released around YouTube shorts. So, I still do YouTube shorts to this day, and I was doing it back then. And the channels were making like 10 to 15 grand a month.

4:06I remember when I talked to you on the first podcast, we were like, a big advocate of if you're going to do a course, you practice what you preach. And I didn't want to do it if I didn't practice what I preached. That's what I was very skeptical about. And so, the fact that I did shorts, I was like, okay, I'm kind of becoming a face of this business model, because it hasn't really been exposed to people yet. And so, I decided to go all in on running more shorts pages, and actually start creating a program around it, which is when the YouTube portal released this year on top of software. So, objectively now, I have a software company doing around five to 600 grand a month. And then I have a course doing multiple six figures a month as well, which equals to around a million give or take or so in revenue. I feel like I corrupted you, because I was encouraging you to sell a course, because you were so good at what you were doing. And it's a great way for people to make money. And so, let's just summarize. The main way you're making money is through an AI software called Krayo. It's Krayo.io. Krayo.ai. AI? Yeah. Krayo.ai, that's doing $600,000 a month.

5:08And then you've tacked on a coaching course program, where you're teaching people how to make YouTube shorts, which is how you've made all of your money previously basically. Exactly. Well, apart from Snapchat, after I had to pivot out, YouTube shorts is where I started to get this side hustle income of like 10, 15 grand a month. And now, honestly, funnily enough, as I run the program, and as I run the software company, I've never made more money from YouTube shorts than I actively am right now, which is so funny to think about, because I supposedly need to have the least amount of time right now. But I'm making like $600 or $700 a day with one of my accounts at the moment. And I have multiple of these that make less. And yeah, it's honestly been like a pretty big uptrend right now in all the companies. The reason I wanted to have you back on here is because obviously, I talk about AI SaaS a lot, like finding an AI use case. And so let's just break down what the point of Krayo is, because so just to make this very clear for people, you were doing Snapchat, that was starting to fade out. We invited a lot of competition with the podcast because we gave away all the sauce. And then once you did that, you switched to YouTube shorts and YouTube.

6:11What's an ARP? So YouTube will pay you basically a certain amount for every thousand views you get. Yeah, so the RPM, which is the amount they pay you per thousand views on shorts right now, is anywhere from 15 to 25 cents. Okay, so which is very competitive versus platforms like TikTok, especially when on YouTube, it's a lot easier to get tons more views. So if you get a million views and make like $2,500 or 250 bucks on YouTube, but the thing is it's a lot easier to get a million views on YouTube than it is on TikTok. A lot of beginners actually get like a million views in a video within the first 10 videos. Like it's not something that's impossible. Whereas TikTok, it's more of a grind to do so. And with YouTube, the views last a lot longer. So you can post a video and it can be evergreen for months. Whereas TikTok, it pretty much dies out relatively quickly. Okay, cool. So $250 for every million views, it's much more achievable on YouTube and they last much longer. Yeah, 100%. Okay, and so then you were doing this for yourself. You were making good money, five figures a month from that. And then you basically decided to try to create a software that could help you make those faster.

7:11So you came up with Krayo.ai, explain how Krayo works. Yep. So Krayo is a tool that makes it easy for people to make these short form videos. We have automation features that make it easy for you to have your subtitles, animations, music, text captions, all that good stuff. And those are the issues my partner and I moose up faced. He was doing TikTok. I was doing YouTube. Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline? That's bullspin. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. My boss asked for results, so I opened my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric I had. Impressions. Cut the bullspin. See revenue? Not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $25 credit go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign, turn sick edition supply. Call us footballers back. So Hilton called to me the superstition concierge to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey?

8:12Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching bandwick up call at 555 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for this day. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. For 125 years, Nordstrom has been part of your story. The stylists who found the perfect out for your big interview. The first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old. The tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe. These are the moments that make Nordstrom. Nordstrom. Bigger small. We're here for all of it. Celebrating 125 years with new moments still add. Discover it all in Nordstrom stores and at Nordstrom.com. And so we were in a similar space but in kind of two different ecosystems. But we faced the same problems. It was how can we make our videos quicker. And so this is what we tried to solve with Craio. And as it's evolved, it's kind of turned into different things.

9:13I mean, Craio was originally meant to be a script writing tool. That's what we thought we wanted it to be at the beginning. But then we realized to be honest, I kind of cross-referenced this with a few other companies. Amazon was created because Jeff Bezos wanted a way to buy books online because the brick and mortar stores didn't have all the selections. Steve Jobs created the math because he wanted to run things on a computer. And so I've just seen that the biggest companies have been created out of just a core issue that the founders faced. And so this is when Craio kind of popped into our heads as like the solution. Because I wasn't going to look around that like a C point to entry or whatever. Which is what was the problem that I was facing? I need to make videos quicker. Craio is that the solution to that problem. So I remember correctly, first off, I remember we were talking about how you had script writers. You were doing all this manually on your team for Snapchat. And then you guys were talking about how you're exploring AI things. And now you actually have built it. Yeah. And I think I've seen a comment on one of your channels and it's so true. It's you as a human, when you have an idea to then taking action,

10:13to then just blindly launching it, is like the time between those is like, feels like minutes. It's like you have an idea that you're like that's that works. Two minutes later, you are literally building it. And the two minutes later you launch it. Yeah, I think the biggest thing that's helped me with pretty much any business I've started whether it's failed or succeeded is just my time between idea to execution. It's been very low. I'll always act on an idea I have because worst case it doesn't work and best case it does. Like if I have to boil down, that's like the only difference between people who make a lot of money and don't is like you have the courage to you do it quickly like the sense of urgency. And then you have the courage to actually try where most people are like, they just like put it off the next day or like they want it to be perfect. So you're just all about action. And so with the product itself, you said it will do scripts. It'll do captions, but doesn't it also like generate like if you wanted to like if you got a script, you have a story. It will literally generate like images like you know literally you could only make an entire faceless video. We have like generative AI features on Cray as well that do that. And we've been optimizing those to be really insane.

11:13But also we adapt the tool based on what the industry is doing. And so there's a lot of niches in the industry that are just stronger than others. And so we adapt our tool to those users more because that's where the most influx will come in. So right now, for example, tech stories are massive on TikTok and YouTube. It's where like these fixed fake tech conversations happen between two people. And we've just been optimizing to make that feature on our product specifically. Really amazing, which you've started to do. Wait, so what is that like you're you like to have screen? Yeah, it's like screen messaging back and forth. Exactly. So it can be a funny conversations of like a couple talking just anything that people make text conversations around is starting to blow up on these platforms. And I think maybe the niches maybe started to die down now. But regardless, that's where a lot of the uses we found of our users goes to. And so whenever we see something like that, when a large influx of users go towards one product on our software, we try to make that one as good as possible. Because that's the way to make a really good product that a lot of people enjoy. Which has actually been really good for user feedback.

12:16And like the quality that they go through when using Crayo, you know? So what do you think that is at the main use case? Or what do you think the most popular feature has been? Honestly, I think our story video has been the most popular feature. It's where we pretty much generate an entire story for you. So what you can even do on Crayo, which we recently added, is you can input another viral story and we'll rehash that viral story in a different way. So that it still fits what the Algo wanted because you're giving another like context of a one viral. And we kind of remake it for you with the gameplay, with the animations, with a script. That you can also tweak after we generate it for you. Are there AI voiceovers? Yes. There's like SpongeBob, there's like real life voiceovers. And those are getting even more like by the day we're adding more and more voices in. Dude, and you guys as UI is so clean, I love your tool because it's not like you just picked one AI API and just like made one simple use case. You found all the different. You got the generating the generative images. You have the AI voiceovers. You have text obviously. Yeah. You're using all of these different models and then combining them in the right way

13:17to create a specific type of short video. And it's ingenious. You know this kind of hurt us as well in the beginning because we use so many different like areas of injunction with like text and voiceover and all this stuff. We had to use like servers from other people we didn't own to run our software. And what happened was when they had an issue, our software would have an issue. And we would like take the hit because even if it wasn't our fault, their servers would be down. It wouldn't work for us. So we've started to build a lot of things in house as well now, which has kind of built a bigger asset for the company for when we want to sell it. Yeah, it's definitely building a moat and enterprise value there. So how much is it to like generate an image or like generate one of these for like how much does it cost you guys? I can't really say that because we have like some private deals and stuff. Okay. If you what would be like the going rate if someone were to try to do that? Can you say that? Yeah, I think it would be like like 10 to 50 cents to generate an image normally. And then what how do you how much do you charge for the product? A few credits. So basically when people buy the product, they get like an amount of credits. Oh, okay. So you pay a month e-subscription to use Krayo, you get a certain amount of credits every

14:21single month. Your credits can go through exporting. They can go to generating subtitles. They can go to generating a story video. And it also depends on like the caliber of what you're making in your story. The amount of credits is very variable. I want to point out two things of what makes your business so genius. One, people use it to make money. They are making these shorts. They are doing these stories that you're talking about. To then post on TikTok and YouTube. To then run up views and get paid. If they get a million views, they get $250. So one, why they use it is because it actively makes the money. It literally is what drives their business. And then secondly, as their business scales, as they make more money, they need more videos. And to make more videos, they need to buy more credits. And so as their business scale, flowing ad bunched on metrics that look great, till the CFO sees them, that's bullspend. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't.

15:45I'm match hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake up call at 555 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Stay cozy and look cool with up to 60% off cold weather gear at Nordstrom Rack. Safe on cashmere, out-of-wear, boots, and more from brands like UG, Vince, Cole Han, and Hunter. Join the Nordic club for free to unlock exclusive discounts, shop clearance in new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. As they make more money, your business scales, and you make more money. It's genius. And that also ties back into my program. Because if people are making money with Krayo, they need to know how to make money with Krayo, they need to know how to make the proper videos. And that's also a very big note that I used in my program. So a lot of people sell courses.

16:47They sell programs on how to make money, but they have no incentivization to make sure the people that buy their programs make money. I quite literally need the people in my program to make money so that they can use my software, which also makes me more money in the back end. If people don't know how to make videos on YouTube, they will not use Krayo because they'll have no use for it. Therefore, I lose at the end of the day. I'm so fascinated about you were saying that your first month, you were 50,000, then you went to 70,000, then you went to 100,000 with Krayo. And I'd really want to break down the anatomy of that marketing. But I just love how a course is used as a marketing engine to funnel people into a SaaS. I think that is something that everyone overlooks. I think there's this weird stigma in the software world since I'm in both the software and info world. Both sides have very opposite skill sets and approach to it. But you've bridged both and used them both strategically to grow your software business. It's genius. A lot of software people think that selling a course is scammy or that people that sell courses aren't real entrepreneurs. But you actually use a course to run tons of paid ads,

17:50sell the course, break even, make money on the course, and then funnel those people into your software. And so it's like this paid media machine that can scale infinitely, and it is an absolute cheat code for marketing SaaS. The goal here is to make it a school in a sense that people get good at the skill I'm teaching. So they have a reason to use the product that I actually care about. Right. I care about the school because it teaches people how to make money. But the real thing that's going to make me $50, $150 million is a software company. I'm never going to sell my program to anyone because I'm attached to it. Yes. It has no exit value. The only thing it can give me is cash flow, which is like a few hundred grand a month, which is great money. But I don't care about a few hundred grand a month, simply because I really want to exit for $50, $100 million. That's like what I'm aiming for. That's my big play. And so if I don't make sure that people perform, my software company won't grow as a matter of fact. So it kind of hurts me and the entire team is well. Moosa also has a program. And his incentivization for people to do well is that they can use Krayo consistently.

18:51And that's one of the forms of marketing we have. We've also literally never ran an ad to Krayo ever. It's all been organic because me and Moosa are just good marketers. Moosa basically makes content teach me about how to take streamers, content, clip it into the same kind of content. Also adapted it into faceless TikTok content as well. So you know how I said I do face YouTube shorts. Right. He does streamer clips and faces TikTok. So a really cool thing about Moosa and I is that we're both the biggest in our own short form ecosystem. Right. He's the biggest on TikTok. I'm the biggest on YouTube. And together we partnered up to make the biggest software in the space, Krayo. And so that's been the goal here to turn it into hopefully a multi-neighbig company. It solves such a clear problem. And it's in such a big market. Everyone needs content. Everyone needs to shoot short form. You have the niche of people who are doing faceless as a business. But also even me for these podcast clips. I can just throw it in there and caption it. Exactly. And so you guys are so broad. And then you guys are so unbelievably savage in your marketing. Like so you guys just hustle. You grind and you make such viral content. Because you literally work on the skill for two years.

19:53I'm just going to snapchat, like learning retention and everything. It's crazy to me. There was a guy called Drew Goodin, a big YouTuber in the like kind of documentary. I guess exposed. But he just makes interesting videos on YouTube. And he made a video talking about how AI was ruining the world. And the intro, first 10 seconds of his video, was a Krayo ad by that affiliate. And the video was number one on trending on all of YouTube. And even though he was talking about AI in a bad light, the fact that Krayo was that 10 second ad, he just played the whole ad for the first intro of the video made us like 50, 60 grand. So even though he was making it with a bad perspective saying this tool or whatever is ruining the world, there are still a ton of people who saw that like, wait, that's actually really smart. He played the ad and the ad is meant to convince you to show you why Krayo is good. So he played the ad. He worked in our favor. He gave us free marketing. It went number one on YouTube. And it made us multiple. That is so funny. So he was literally trying to talk bad about this. And then like 10% of his audience is like, wait, that's actually really good. And you know, it wasn't even on Krayo. It was on AI in general.

20:54It just so happened to be that an intro was on Krayo because it was an AI video. It's so funny. Yeah. So you guys just stir the pot and it works out. We don't really stir the pot. I mean, the way we advertise Krayo is to show people that if you use this software, you can get a ton of views on your content, which then can make you money. And I think that's like a very easy promise to show people because if you make good videos, you'll make money and Krayo can help you make good videos. And so we never really do controversial marketing because there's no need. Our product actually works. It actually gets people results and people actually enjoy using it. It can always be better. It will be better. But if our product works, people are going to use it. And a company that isn't good wouldn't be doing multiple six figures a month. I previously mentioned this before to someone I was speaking to. But with Krayo, pretty much our marketing slogan is make it hard for people to not know what Krayo is. Like I've had people who've told me that they live in small countries, small cities, and people come to them and talk about Krayo that they use it to make money because we are making it hard for people

21:56to not know what our company is. Simply by putting so much content out there. So I'll just give you an example. We have an affiliate who makes content for us actually makes by figures a month making content for us. And he just puts out content every day. Great ROI for us. Great money for him. You're affiliate. The type of content he's making. What is he making? Yeah. So he's making videos on how to make money with TikTok. And in that, he injects Krayo as a form of a step to make your video. So he's focused on an outcome. And then that is a part of the process to get that out. That is one of the funnels we have. So he folks. Flowing ad bunched on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bullspend. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bullspend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign

22:56Terms the conditions apply. College football is back. So Hilton called to me the superstition concierge to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching bandwink up call it $555.55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for this day. So good, so good, so good. Stay cozy and look cool with up to 60% off cold weather gear at Nordstrom Rack. Save on Kashmir, out of wear, boots, and more from brands like Ugg, Vince, Colhahn, and Hunter. Join the Nordy Club for free to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop Clarence and New Arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

23:57Don't outcome. Do you guys want to make money on TikTok? I run pages like this, and this is how I make my videos. Step one, I go to Crayo. I then do this, this, and this. And it's like he's advertising Crayo. He's simply labeling it as a step. He's never said to go use Crayo. He's never said to go try Crayo. He's just said that it's a step of how he's made money himself. So the marketing is actually very laid back. Is it his? We're not asking people to use our product. Is he using his face and his voice? Yeah, so that specific marketer does use his face and his voice. And his own account. Others, yeah. Others use AI, and they don't use their face at all. They actually cover their faces. Because people can make these videos. It doesn't matter if you have your face on it or not. The videos are very doable because they're very simple. They don't require you to have a personality or anything like that. It's just you showing the outcome that you've achieved. And we also only pick people for our videos that have made money with that outcome. It would be dishonest of us to choose people who don't make money with the outcome because that would straight up be lying. But all these affiliates, they've made a few ground on TikTok where they actively make thousands on short form in general.

24:58And so they show the outcome of the product, how they do it, because they use Krayo as well. Is this their affiliates? So is this an affiliate program that's like public or do you gade it? No. So when I say affiliate program, I don't necessarily mean we're giving them percentage of sales, which we do have an affiliate program. We have a public one that anybody can go sign up on Krayo.ai. Like it's very public. How much do you get for that? You get like 20% of the $50 a month. Yeah, whatever. 40 a month. Yeah. There's 80. There's like different packages. So whatever you bring us, you get 20% of that. But that's not where we kind of put our focus into. We have private deals with creators on retainers, etc. Which I can't go too deep into. I have just respect for those creators. I don't want to reveal their deals. But we have private deals with creators that actually use the product that we also know in order to make videos for us pass this affiliate system. It's like an in-house Krayo member. And they're probably using Krayo half the time to make the videos. Yeah, exactly. So it works pretty much both ways. I think affiliates is like the best first thing to do if you're trying to make money online.

25:58Yeah. Be an affiliate or make sure for them. Because you're learning traffic. And a lot of people simply have mentioned to me, like, hey, like I made a couple Instagram videos for Krayo because your affiliate program was out. And I didn't think much of it. But I made like 20 bucks. And I can just go buy food. And I mean, and it's simple. They've never made money. They did it for fun. And they made 20. Can I ask how much the special private affiliates are? How much of MRR they've contributed? Well, to be honest, it kind of depends on the month because sometimes they contribute more or less. I think what's the most, you think, in one month range? The most that probably all of our affiliates together have added to us to Krayo in a month was probably like 80, 90 grand in a row. Oh my God. Yeah. And no cost because they're just affiliates. Yeah, no cost because they're affiliates. I know based on just our feel. Are you talking about the private affiliates or the public? Private. Private affiliates all together because we have quite a few of them. We have like, I think 15 now, all together have bought us like, yeah, in our best month around like 90 KMRR most likely.

27:00And since they're just doing it for percentages, no cost to track. But also, it's hard to track. And the reason it's hard to track is because when they say to use Krayo, there is no direct link to track whether they brought the user to Krayo. It's people searching up Google from Krayo. But we can use intervals. Searching up what? Searching up Krayo through Google. So like if someone says, I use Krayo.ai and there's no link to click. There's going to go on another tab in search Krayo.ai. But there is kind of ways we can track. No codes based on the time they've posted and the traffic bumps based on our average. So there's ways we know, but there's no indefinite ways. Is that just because TikTok doesn't have a link in bio feature? You know, I mean, there is a link in bio, but I don't click link on bias. I think the average user doesn't click link in bios. And so they just search it up instead because it's easier than clicking a link, right? So that's kind of like how we track. And to be honest, we also give really good incentive bonuses. So if a creator hits X amount of millions of views a month, they'll get a bonus. But the cool thing is the creators make money on their own. A lot of these creators actually sell programs on how to make money with these outcomes.

28:03And they're making tons of money because they're getting views. And they're promoting their own program. They're making a lot of money. That's great for them. But at the same time, we benefit because they inject Krayo in the video. So everyone's winning. They're getting paid by us to inject us. And they're also making money from their program. That's the beauty of SaaS. You made a tool that empowers people's businesses. So you catch all this secondary promotion because now they're using their tool to sell a course with your product. And it's also all people who make drop shipping courses. And it's also almost hard for them not to accept a deal with Krayo because would they rather promote CapCut that wouldn't pay them? KrayoCut will never pay any of them. They don't care to pay them. They're a billion dollar company. Right. Why not just use Krayo, which is a good alternative and get paid? You don't lose anything. You actually only gain because you'd lose if you promoted CapCut, you make no money from it. $90,000 in one month from affiliates, rough gas. That's rough estimate. That's a huge number, though. And those are mainly from your top 15 affiliates who are actually trained, vetted, and good at what they do. What a percent? They have to marinate as well into the system. They have their own offers and you trust them so they get special privileges.

29:06That's insane. Super smart strategy. Every SaaS, I would say most SaaS grow through affiliates. And that's just a really good strategy. But the real strategy that you and Musa have both implied is basically make content, teaching people how to make money, drive them to a paid course, paid program, paid community where you genuinely teach them how to make money with YouTube shorts, showing them all of the experience you've had over the last two years and literally what you're doing right now to make it work. Then they start doing that. And once they start seeing it, working and understanding how to do the business, they sign up to Krayo to make it easier. You can literally run ads to your course. You could spend $100 on ads, they buy your course, you either break even or make money, and then you send them straight to your course. And so you can run infinite paid ads and it's so genius. Where so many SaaS founders are like trying to run paid ads to a software. Imagine trying to sell Krayo without ex... Flowing ad bunched on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them, that's bullspend. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions.

30:07I remember telling my boss. That'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bullspend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign term secretions apply. Hey, you're so good. Stay cozy and look cool with up to 60% off cold weather gear at Nordstrom Rack. Safe on cashmere, out of wear, boots, and more from brands like Ugg, Vince, Colhahn,

31:10and Hunter. Join the Nordy Club for free to unlock exclusive discounts. Shopped Clarence and New Arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Well, you need to someone how they make money on YouTube shorts. Like the most important thing about your strategy is you do it problem by problem. When people are on social media, the problem they have is they need to make money. So you say, okay, I'm going to teach you how to make money. They click a link. I'm going to teach you how to make $10,000 a month with YouTube shorts just like me. It's like, okay, great. That's how I'm going to make money. Now what's the new problem? They've agreed YouTube shorts. Solved the first one. Now that they've agreed to that, what's their next problem? I need to learn how to make YouTube shorts. Now introduce new solution, my software. That is just like world class marketing. Super simple, but people do not think about it like that. That's why you guys are crushing it. Would you say those are the main two marketing engines? Yeah, so at the moment, 100% would be just a lot of creators and then the programs,

32:11but also Moose and I make content on our own platforms on YouTube, him on Instagram and TikTok, where we promote Krayo ourselves. Yes. And so that also very, very big impact. So those three are honestly the biggest impact in our growth as a whole. And then obviously, there's miscellaneous ways that we make less of our money, but the three biggest ways are those. And it's just very cool to know that we've never really spent a dime on ads. It's all been through our kind of like, how do I say it? Our strategy. So you spent ads for your program? No. We only really just started doing that. Okay, so you got the 600K without the paid ads? Yeah, like we hit like the five different things that are the K range two months ago. My program was not out two months ago. Yeah, but you were okay, but Moose had his. That was probably pretty good. Okay, so you and Moose have both make organic personal brand content. Yeah. And he was driving people to a paid community for like probably a year before, maybe six months before you had Krayo. And so you had both built up these audiences. You hadn't sold a course yet or anything, but you both had your personal brand.

33:12And that personal brand sold into a bizop course, how to make money. And then eventually those people all had the same problem, how to make the videos. Krayo came to be. Yeah. And here's the thing as well. Under Krayo, we've built another asset called viral engine, which I've kind of just been running with a lot of theme pages and just like growth through my brand and kind of a few tactics I use that I don't want to mention like because a really good but viral engine is a newsletter. It's a newsletter on how to go viral, how to make money with content. And we've grown it to over 800,000 people. And viral engine is now used as an asset for us to spawn in new software companies and to promote already existing software companies. So it's its own asset of people who enjoy content on how to go viral, what platforms are good, what platforms aren't, like the new trends and new strategies that come up. And we've built it as this whole pretty much other company. There has been newsletters that have sold for millions and millions with like 300, 400, 500,000.

34:12We literally have over 800,000 people in under seven months. For Krayo, when you're getting it built, like how involved are you with like the UI, the design, the product decisions? Yeah. And I have to be very involved now, but also when it was being built simply because we are the user that we are trying to appeal to. It's our problem that we want to solve. So we know all the little intricacies that the developer may not know. He knows how to build an insane product, but he doesn't know what the product actually needs to be insane because you could build a really insane flower image generator who cares about flowers. So we needed to guide him in the direction of what people wanted to have built. And so that's where we had a lot of input. In terms of design, it's never really been a one-man show. Everyone in the company has always been really big on how we want the product to look because how the product looks and feels relates back to my brand. If it feels clunky and I'm advertising it, then I have a clunky brand that's advertising something that's clunky. And so I've been very, very big on making sure that the product is very clean looking, very smooth to use. And so is Moosa and so is the leader of the developer.

35:14And it's simply because it relates back to who we are. We clean people. Do we want to represent something that's clean? And so that's what we've done in our product. How much did it cost you to get it built before you launched? You're going to think this is insane. So to build Krayo, it only really cost like 10 grand of upfront cost. And then Alim had like maybe four months of sleepless nights. But it didn't cost pretty much anything cash-wise upfront. And now just because, honestly, the determination of the team to get it built and the hours that we were going to sacrifice into getting it built were just immense at that time. I've never, honestly, none of us have been ever locked into getting something done as early days Krayo. It was disgusting. And Krayo actually launched in a very bad state. It was a very bad launch. But we fixed it after, but still building the product from scratch and just getting the idea together. It was hell, but we just went through it. And cash-wise, it didn't cost that much because we were all in the trenches getting it done. And then we made, how little money we made, everyone was in the trenches getting it

36:16done. It was making the product better. Making the product better, making it good to use. And like I said, off-launch, it was horrible. We had a very bad launch. The product was very clunky. We had a lot of issues. And this was like kind of a hit to us because of how much time we spent on it. But to be honest with you, within two, three months of that, within maybe even a month or two of that, it went from like A to like G. Like it went a really big rapid rise of just improvement. And now the product's had a great place. But to be fair, the fact that a lot of people used it when the product was in such a bad place shows that there was nothing else on the market that was relatively close. You just filled a huge gap. So what are some product improvements that you had to make? Like was churn a big issue? Obviously, you've mentioned the token stuff earlier. Does that make sense? You don't have to cover that. There was a big issue at the beginning when we had a free plan on the product. And we actually didn't analyze how much people would use the free plan to bankrupt us. We didn't kind of analyze that mathematics because people would use the free plan so much. Use up tokens that we would grant them because we thought they would convert.

37:18Because our product wasn't the best, they used all the tokens, rinsed our money and didn't convert. So on day one, I'm pretty sure I documented it. Flowing ad bunched it on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bullspin'd. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard. Confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bullspin'd. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign term secretions apply. Stay cozy and look cool with up to 60% off cold weather gear at Nordstrom Rack. Save on cashmere, out of wear, boots and more from brands like Ugg, Vince, Colhahn and Hunter. Join the Nordy Club for free to unlock exclusive discounts. Shopped Clarence and new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free.

38:18Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. You know, the partnership between United Airlines and Annie's Island is so seamless. We're finishing each of the sentences. But what does that mean for you? Oh, just all the good stuff. Like, hitting miles on every mile you fly. And not having to check your bags more than once. And that's not to mention our lounges. And also our lounges. Which is double the lounging. Oh, did we mention how much easier it is when you can book all your flights together? Hey, yeah, that's what I was gonna say. United and Annie's Island. Two airlines one way to fly. This is for a video, but we lost like 10 grand. It's funny because people use the free trial so much it crashed our systems. When you think about businesses growing their sales beyond forecasts, like festivals by Mr. Beast or even a legacy business like Mattel, sure you think about a product with demand, a focus brand and influence driven marketing. But an often overlooked secret is the businesses behind the business, making selling and for the shoppers buying simple.

39:21For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Home of the number one checkout on the planet and the not so secret secret with a shop pay that boost conversions up to 50%. Meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or scrolling on the web and your store in their feed and everywhere in between. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout as Mr. Beast. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash WGMI all lower case. Go to Shopify.com slash WGMI to upgrade your selling today. Thank you Shopify for sponsoring today's episode. So our systems weren't compatible for the thousands of people that used it on day one. The free trial we had to remove until our product was at a place. We don't even have the free trial back now because our turn is okay.

40:21But we want to get our turn to a point where we are very confident in giving a free trial and that people will really, really want to use it. People who are paying now are actually really enjoying it. But it's a different type of person who tries something for free and who pays to use it. Usually people who pay are more willing to try to make the product work and try to actually make money with it. But people who are free have no moat to try it. So they don't care whether it's good or bad. They don't care whether they could contact us to fix something. We get no user feedback from that pretty much. What are the other product improvements that you made that you notice? Like that maybe aren't as obvious that made a big difference in people's churned or retention. Maybe they got better results. More people started seeing success or... So just a little example is a bit niche for our product, but it's just an example. So we had like a feature that like I mentioned before, help people make tech stories. And it was pretty basic. So one thing that Alim had the idea of was, hey, let's add many themes to these techs. So now let's make it so that the techs could be like them messaging an Uber driver

41:21or then talking on Instagram or then talking on WhatsApp. That's good story to me. Just different themes to match a vibe. And that is what we added to the product. And we actively saw improvements in our churn after because at the time, that was our most used feature on the product. They always changes, but at the time it was what? That's what it was. So we created a solution for it or tried to optimize it further. And we saw instant improvements. It's always things like you have to be on the ball with any company you run. In our case, it's a software company, but it could be anything. You have to be on the ball with what the people that you're providing the service for are using the most and the problem they're running into the most. And for us, objectively, there was no problem. It's just that we could have made it better. We could have made it better. So what can you also do to just better, even if there is no problem there? Everything can always be better. And so people, they get complacent. And be like, ooh, like our company is at a great place right now. We don't really need to change anything. You're dumb. Like you are dumb. There's always things that you can improve. That's funny. The last podcast we did, 500K at 15, iconic, everyone talks about on YouTube now.

42:23So shout out to you for just sharing the sauce and ruining your business for that reason, because it flooded your own market. But you were really smart with launching your personal brand on YouTube. You literally, I think you posted that video two days before, you asked me when the podcast was going to come out. I was like, it's two weeks from now. You're like, bet. And then two days before I posted the podcast, you posted your first video because you knew that that podcast did well. They tried to find you and you had that video. Yeah. The goal was to social engineer myself into the industry through that podcast. And I knew if I had posted the video kind of like months prior, months later, I would have ruined the perfect timing that I was in because I was honestly very confident that podcast was going to be one of the most successful on your channel because I think the story was more outstanding. Like outstanding stories just do well because people are interested in them. And so I was very confident in that. And then also we also took a nickname initiative on your packaging with that podcast. So that's where we're very, very confident. So I knew that posting the YouTube video a few days before the pod would have won kind of gotten out on YouTube. But also when people want to search my name, when people click the link in the bio, they

43:23would have seen that video there. They would have had something to consume of me and now they get to know me. And that first video on my channel, half million views. Dude. And because now even now, even when you type in like because a lot of the short spent viral and if people type in 15 year that made $500,000, it's your personal channel in that video. And I even mentioned this year earlier, if you search up rich millionaire, it's me in a Jordan Welch video. It's crazy ranking like that. So I've just kind of made it a point to very put myself out there as a brand. But listen, I think there's a way I wanted to go about it. And I've kind of like been playing around with it these past few months because I'm still new to this and I'm also still figuring it out with a team and structured in how I want to do it as a person. And so I've tested out a few different strategies. One has been to make really high quality videos, but far and few between. So like once every two weeks, once every three weeks, once a month. And then the other strategy has been to test posting very consistently, more like value basic driven videos that add my own salsa being funny and memes and all that stuff. What I found is that the high quality far and few between have just consistently performed

44:27better. The videos where I actually put the effort they deserve into like days and days to make the videos, days and days to plan the stuff. Like I tried YouTube short for 30 days. Yeah, like I literally made a video getting a channel to 100,000 subscribers and making it $3,000 a month for a YouTube video. And I documented from me conceiving the channel to come up with the idea to making hundreds of dollars with it. And that was all in the video. The video got hundreds of thousands of views. And that was also made me a lot more legitimate. And so I've also tested out other videos just kind of going over how to make $10,000 a month on my low of love. And one, I don't enjoy those videos as much. Two, I don't feel like I can really give off the value that I want to bring by just talking to the camera. So I've made a very conscious decision with the brand now to make really high quality videos far and few between. And I have this outstanding belief in myself that I'm going to be the biggest, the space I've ever seen. And whether, whether people believe it or not, I know it's going to happen simply because

45:29I've never believed in something this much. And the things I believed in less have become so successful. And so I'm very confident in that statement. And the way I'm going to do it is by simply doing it the way I see best. Like I said, I tested out two methods doing it away that kind of people have done already and then doing it away that I wanted to. And the way I wanted to always got more views. And so now that's what I'm very focused on with the brand. I have videos going out now on the channel about breaking down, Krayo in a very interesting way. I have videos now going on the channel going over me running up a YouTube shorts channel to multiple five figures a month coming out very soon. I have a channel going around like the new apartment address, but like I have more high value videos coming out that take me a lot more effort to create. And that's going to pay way more dividends for the brand. It's also going to give people a better experience when watching my channel. I want people to walk away from a Daniel video and be like, well, like this was insane. And I think someone who really did that well was Biaheza. Biaheza did that very well. And he did it in his own way with jobshipping, his own angle, his different style.

46:32And I'm taking some aspects of that. I'm taking some aspects of other people that are successful and I'm just molding it into what I want because I know when I put my creativity to something and actually works. And so I've kind of come to the decision of how I'm going to go about the channel. So how do you think about like formatting? Like how are you thinking about like these type of videos and putting them into buckets? Like you have like challenge videos where you're like, I did this. Yeah. I started a YouTube shorts video in 30 days to prove it's not luck. I got a hundred thousand subscribers on a new shorts channel 90 days. I think that's like a challenge for me. There's a few ways. There's challenge formats or videos where I show the viewer that it's possible that I can do it within the video. That's one version of the type of videos I make. The second is more about me. How do I live? What am I up to? What car do I have? What watches do I have? What are my 10 essentials? Like I have videos like that coming out because it kind of gives the personal angle to my life. And I think the personal angle to my life is very appealing because it's a bit of an anomaly at my age. And so I think that's also very appealing.

47:33And then I also have the very value driven videos like about me breaking down. So I have a video coming out soon breaking down how I grew a 3D animation channel to hundreds and hundreds sometimes close to a thousand dollars a day for shorts. And I broke it down in just a such a sick way. Like the video is going to come out people are going to be able to see. But I have like just a bunch of different ways I'm going to make videos. But I'm going to make sure that every video while someone and every video people can take away. Because like I said, I don't enjoy making the videos where you sit down and talk to the camera because you can give value that way. But people need to go to a story. They need to feel like they've been through a journey with you. They need to feel like they need to feel fulfilled after watching a video. And people consume knowledge all the time. Everyone consumes knowledge. When you read a book, when you listen to a podcast, when you watch a regular old finance video, what people don't always get the gratification of having is coming out feeling

48:34fulfilled by a story they just watched that makes them motivated that they can do it themselves. And so that's what I'm going to make sure that my content betrays from now on. Do you use any sort of storytelling? Do you use any kind of storytelling templates? Do you use psychology in your videos when you're talking about like actual script writing? Have your videos are they scripted? How are you actually going about producing one of these? Yeah. So. So. I've done both. I've scripted a video's word for word before and I've also bullet pointed how I wanted to structure videos and kind of just go on off of my own little tangents. And both have worked very well. So here's how I see it. For videos that are very scripted, I get I kind of understand the fact that I can tell the story better because I know what story I'm telling. I know exactly how I'm going to act in every single word. Whereas on others where I kind of write down bullet points and kind of go on tangents, I feel as though sometimes I crack more jokes. I'm a bit more of myself, but the story kind of veers off in a bit of different ways. So now it's mixed a bit of both. More in the story I tell the jokes and everything, but it's a lot more concentrated.

49:36And what was the other question that you asked apart from psychology or story templates? So in terms of the story templates, if I tell the story of the video, it's kind of like this, I take them through a journey where I'm happy because I have an idea that I'm sad because the idea is not working and then it's not working and it's not working and then I'm happy again, maybe something bad happens. Like I take them through just ups and downs with me and I dramatize things sometimes, but I do it in a very real way. Like for example, on the challenge that I did where I got 100,000 subscribers in like 90 days, there were points where the channel died completely out of nowhere. And like, okay, a channel's going to die. I'm just going to revive it. But I would make it like a very dramatic moment in the video. And like make get b-roll of you being like. Like for example, I have like a video coming out soon where something bad happened in the video. And I literally have like a 30 second animation shot of me like standing in front of a train rail and like a train coming towards me. It's animated. No, it's real. And then it just snaps back to me being like, okay, we can solve this.

50:38So I just like want to make it so you went out to like a train track and waited until our train was coming. We're not going to a train track. I didn't wait till train coming. Like I was like had the train sound effects, everything. And then like as I was getting louder louder, I like snap back into like my room. So the sound is like wow. I'm really taking the extra step here. I'm going to make the best videos in the space. And so you're paying attention to like, obviously that storytelling. And so you're doing the challenge. There's ups and downs, but you're going to lean into the downs, make that very clearly in the right order of a, you first you introduce the story. This is the challenge. She's what I'm going to do. It's not going to be easy, but I think we can do it. So first thing we need to do is this, oh, it's great. I created my account and we're ready to go. We made our first post W happy. But as we go challenge, maybe my account span, we're getting zero views on the first four days. And you're like, you really show like the emotion of that down. And I think a lot of people, they make the mistake of when something bad happens, they kind of just immediately find a solution and it switches to good. But I think you need to show the process of how it becomes good because I don't just

51:39feel bad and then I feel good. I go through a process that feel good again. That's your maybe researching to find the solution or what not. That's what I'm showing in my videos. A lot of people are like their videos to like crunch down the time. It's like, oh, this happened. Oh, but I just remember there's this. No, that's not how you solve solutions. You solve solutions by being in the trenches. That's all the solution. She knew like show you reading a book, show you at the gym. That's like a montage of like a fighter show. Like I read a book and this word stuck out to me and this word kind of related to the problem I was having and he solved it in this way. So I think I'm going to solve it in that way. I wonder if I could do this. Huh? And you go try something like that. That's how you tell a story to someone and that's I'm going to do it on the brand. So I'm very excited for people to see that because I'm going to put a lot of effort in and I think people are going to see the difference. And I previously mentioned this before, but I'm younger. So although I have accomplishments making whatever like six, seven figures a month, people don't respect it because I'm younger and they still doubt me. So I'm just simply going to have to work two, three, four, five times harder than anyone else is willing to simply to show them that I'm going to make it.

52:41I love it, dude. I just get so much energy when you start talking about it. It's awesome. I think that's something that probably most, unless you're like in YouTube, you're not even aware that's a way to think about it. But like you are trying to tell a story and you're dramatizing your information to make it a better piece of engaging concerts. Yeah. And on top of that, you do such a good job of like your visual aids. So like on screen edits that aren't covering your face, but they're like over your shoulders, your sound effects and most importantly, your sound design. So you're choosing music like strategically when something good's happening, more fast pace upbeat, when something bad's happening, you might have a little more low melodramatic music. And then when the train's coming, there's no train, but you're using sound design to really like symbolize and visualize the students like in a rough place. I literally have two different teams for just the post production of the video. One person does the edit and the sound effect and one who does the music alone, like completely separate because I wanted to get experts in their own fields. I don't want someone to have to do something really good, but then the other subpar. I want the emotion to match everything that's going on. Okay.

53:42So now that you have that's like your story like structure, right? That classic storytelling, like story arc. Do you have like a hook framework that you follow? Like, or do you just have such an eye for it? Can someone please invent a crystal ball until then over 38,000 businesses have future proof their business with net suite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP bringing accounting, financial management, inventory and HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions with real time insights and forecasting. You're peering into the future with actionable data when you're closing the books in days, not weeks. You're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next. If I had needed this product, it's what I'd use because with real time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at net suite.com

54:42slash WGMI. The guide is free to you at net suite.com slash WGMI. Thank you, net suite, for sponsoring today's episode. I don't have a hook framework and I wouldn't say I have an eye for it because I don't feel like I'm an expert. But I just kind of, it comes to me sometimes. And even if it doesn't, I'll ask people that I value their opinions, what they think of the rough draft that I've created and what they would tweak it. So for example, I have a video coming out soon about myself for company, Crayo. And the intro that I ended up with was like me holding my laptop with Crayo on it. And it's like this is my self-recompany, Crayo.ai. Throw my laptop and then I continue. And so I wanted to visually show what it was. I wanted to dramaticize the interior. And so there's just things like that. Are you going to say this is my self-recognition Crayo, then say how much it makes. Yeah, exactly. So it's like proof that it exists, what you're talking about establishing the character. And then authority, the psychology, just like that. You have to give authority instantly. But can't be like you don't want to talk for two minutes, right?

55:43Just like one quick piece. You don't want to talk for two minutes. And the thing is like you want to make sure that people just interested in what they're going to watch. I mean, a lot of people don't go that in depth in their content and it's fine. They don't care to like make that good of videos. But listen, if I'm going to be good at business, I'm also going to be good at YouTube. I'm going to be good at everything I do. It's a drive for your business. Yeah, like I value every single part of my business and I try to be the best at it. So I'm going to be the best at YouTube. I'm going to try to be the best at YouTube. I'm going to try to be the best at software. I'm not going to be subpar in any one of those metrics at all. What's your approach to packaging? Because I love the thumbnail for you to watch. So that watch just kind of came from a realism aspect. I always try now to be very realistic because that's what's real. I'm not going to do like fake things that don't exist. And so that watch, I had a watch, I held it up and it was dramaticized and we added gold to it and stuff, but it was real. People could feel like that's something that was on my wrist. And like that's something that I'm doing a lot more where it's like realism because that's

56:45what works on the channel. Yeah, the title of that video is How to Make F You Money as a Teenager. Is that correct? How to Make F You Money as a Teenager? And what says more? F you as a gold watch with a kid that looks 12 years old. Yeah, so did you define the title first in your mind? Yeah, always. I kind of always come up with a title first and then something else. So you had a title in mind like How to Make F You Money as a Teenager and the best way to visualize that out of all the things you could do. You said what's better, what's a better way to say F you than a gold watch? Yeah, and like we also like went in to make my face a lot younger than it was. I showed the camera you watch now because that's even cooler than one of the thumbnail. This is my watch now. Is it a rose gold, rose gold? Yeah, day day, a Rolex, day day, rose gold. How many subscribers are you got now? Almost 60,000. Is that make you happier Matt? Very Matt. I know. It is so funny. Anyone who would go from zero to 60K and one year is like a very, that's pretty quick. Not one year. Yeah, one year. Actively posting since March. But yeah, technically one year. Yeah. So I'm very pissed off. But March, six months, yeah.

57:45I've like actually committing to it. You kind of established the brand. Yeah, I understand. I'm going to be, everyone will see what's going to happen soon. I'm very confident. You've been a little busy building a $600,000 month SaaS. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I have no excuse for not being at like 500,000 subscribers right now. And that's just simply through trial and error. Like I mentioned before in the podcast, if I take action and it doesn't work, I don't care because eventually it will work. And it hasn't worked how I want it to work yet because I've been trial and erroring and I know it will work. And everyone is going to be like, whoa, then I'll talk about how he was going to make it work and then it's going to work. So watching 2024 for the last quarter and in 2025, what's going to happen with the brand? Because it's going to be one of those where people are like, this guy is the next guy in the space. And honestly, one thing that's very surprising to me is although I have 60,000 subscribers, I think a lot of people seem to be very impactful in the space, even at this kind of smaller range that I'm in, which is pretty cool to see as well. If there's one line in this podcast that should just hit you in the face of like what you

58:45need to accept about the reality of the world is the fact that he said there's no excuse. And though he's literally spent four months nonstop building a huge SaaS and YouTube it alone is a full time job. But the fact that you do not allow yourself to have that excuse or to blame reasons and still that and you're still that and you're subconscious people. So moving on, I still want to keep going through YouTube. So obviously thumbnail should just kind of reflect the title, pick a title. We won't go into the nitty gritty of title because it can be a whole podcast of that. But I'm curious, you shoot in different locations and you're like moving around. And obviously we talk about story until I know this can emphasize story, but is that are you like basically doing like each scene is like a part of the story and you change when like the mood changes, you change locations. Is that how it works? Yeah. So I'm getting better at doing that as well because sometimes when I'm sad around in like light places, but what's more boring sitting down on a screen and just talking or being around and moving around and walking and standing and sitting like I really like moving around. It's just makes my videos more lively.

59:47Like to be honest, even if the video, the story of the video isn't as cool, moving around kind of gives it an extra like lifeline of like people see me moving around. They see me kind of getting in different locations. And I think it's just a unique aspect to my videos that literally no one else is doing right now. Yeah, that's the divi has inspiration. Yeah. So moving around, getting in those different places and just like kind of getting into cool spots like I don't know. I was watching your, I'm a subscriber of the newsletter and I probably a few days ago, you posted, you had a clip from your actual course in there and you were talking about the visual aids when you're editing. Yeah. Like the whole goal you were saying and that was really insightful. Your whole goal when you're telling a story is to not only tell a story with words, but also make sure the visuals can tell the story if there was no words with it. Yeah. And the same the sound design, every sound effect could match it. So your goal is like make it the most like easy to process for through all five senses basically. A big way. So tell if a video is good is if you put the volume on zero and you can still watch at

1:00:49the end, right? So if you can do that, you know that the video visually appealed and by the way, I said this in a video before, people like to be visually appealed more than audibly peeled. And simply because your eyes are more impact for receptors in your ears because that's what you see every day. Light makes you close your eyes a bit because it's bright. You know what I mean? So everything I do, whether it shorts long form, I make sure to visually appeal, like show people what I'm talking about, emphasize what might come in the future, like blur what I want to hide to like tease them into the next. Every little second is planned and like executed on properly to make sure that someone's having a good experience and they're entertained throughout the entire part. So you're obsession with retention. Yes. Obsessual attention, but to be honest, like I'm not that smart at YouTube compared to like a lot of other people, what I'm smart at, one business, but two, I'm very good at like I have a circle of people that are a lot smarter than me that I kind of take these context

1:01:52clues and points off to mold my idea to be better. So I'm no expert. I think I'm good at YouTube. Definitely further understanding than someone who's starting out and kind of most of the people on the platform, but a big part of where I've gotten all of my knowledge is from asking the smartest people in my circle, what they think about this, what they think about that and that eventually molds me to become better and better and better and then I'll become my own expert. The free value that I give is in the videos I make on YouTube and also in like the second channel videos I make where I talk about like what I go through in my business, etc. But in terms of like the real intricacies, like the real dirt trench stuff, that's in the program because I want people to actually get good. I don't like the argument that people make where it's like if you give free value, no one will listen because I think people do listen to free value. I do think people do, but at scale, people don't. I think if you have a smaller audience with high intent, they will listen to free value. But if you're a larger scale giving free value to people, it glosses over thousands of

1:02:52more people's like ears. You know what I mean? So I think at my level, I'm not massive yet, but I have a very big audience of like hundreds of thousands of people, millions of people a month who watch my content. And so I give free value, which I do in my videos, but it's leading in to where you're actually going to make a difference in your life, which is in my program, but funnily enough to be honest with you. I have emails that I show on videos from people saying they made $10,000 a month watching my free content. And those are the people who just take initiative no matter what. They watched the video, they got one context clue I gave of something, ran with it, made money. And those are the people that are going to make it. That's what I did. And those are the people who take action or are serious about making the business work. Like they're going to listen to what you say. There's one little detail. You can tie everything together for them. I'm telling you the only difference between people who make money and don't is the ones who take action. Because even the ones who make money take actions on things that don't like reap the rewards, but they always take action. I think the best way to like get like if you hear that and like, okay, take action, you take action. Don't say that to yourself. Set a goal or set a like outcome that you're going to side and have the self image

1:03:55of yourself that like, I am going to make $10,000 with a short channel guaranteed. And then just keep going and tell you to do it. Even if people are scared to think that far ahead, you could even do it to the point where it's like, I'm going to post seven videos this week. Next week, I'm going to post another seven. The week after, I'm going to post it on, you just set these small goals that compound into bigger. You've now posted seven videos a week for a month and you've reap results. Now your goal is to make a thousand a month. Yeah, to set the goal post. There always has to be a goal post and it always moves back as you grow in business. I mean, my goal post was 10, came on then higher than higher than higher. And now my goal post has shifted and everyone's goal post shifts. Yeah, I said it's a Malcolm. Like, when I was younger, I would always say, I'm a top performing person. And then once I was ever faced with any decision, I would be like, hmm, what would a top performing person do in the situation? And it helped guide my decision making in some like accidental way. And that's probably why I became pretty successful, I think. Yeah, I think for me, when I was young, I mean, I'm young now. So for me to say, younger is weird. But when I was like 12, 11 years old, for some odd reason, well, I'd always done YouTube.

1:04:56I have videos out there. I'm going to make YouTube and stuff. But I always knew for some reason that I think I was better at solving things than other people and not at school. I was honestly pretty bad at school, but I was good at solving like solutions like with YouTube. Like, for example, small things like a lot of people didn't know how to resize a banner on Photoshop to get it up on YouTube. I was like 11, 10 learning Photoshop for the first time. I did it because I just watched so many tutorials, hours and hours. It took me hours to figure out how to add it in, but I did it eventually. I always just tried really hard at what I wanted to solve. It was always smaller big things. I wanted to make a video. I didn't have a camera. I'd go around asking my parents, my brother, my sister, for like the little phones to record the videos on because I always wanted to solve this like the problem I had. That was always my goal. And that's my goal now. I don't really have goals for five years. I don't have goals for 10 years. I said this earlier today to a friend, my goal is to solve the solution I have now. What is the solution? What is the problem I have now? Let me solve it.

1:05:57And then that always shifts into a new problem. I think that's the mental frame, right? You set the goal post. You have that self image like, I'm going to do this. And you're like, okay, to do this, I have this problem. And then you have that problem. You face ahead on, you get through it. And then once the second you face that problem, another problem arise. You do that next problem. And you don't try to overthink or think through all of the problems you're going to have. It's just, okay, I want to do this. Well, first thing I need to do is learn how to edit. Okay, great. Now I need a post. Now that I've posted, I need to be able to analyze the data and see the retention. How do I make new problem, new problem, solve, solve, solve, solve. And it's just like the faster you solve those problems, the time in between, the faster you are successful. There's like a specific, there's like a set amount of problems. You have to solve. And if you just solve them all, a million dollars. Exactly. That's fascinating. Because it always compounds. Yes, it always compounds. And that never stops. The bigger you play the game, it doesn't. What is the thought process? You have a newsletter and then in your newsletter you were doing like unlisted YouTube videos. Yeah. And here's my thesis with newsletters. Is that they're really boring. Some, most of the time. They're really boring. Who wants to sit there and read just text all day? And so I thought, why not send out video newsletters that only go out to the newsletter?

1:06:59So every week, instead of sending a boring 30 paragraph letter, I just talk to the camera. I give them advice as a human that they can watch on video while eating popcorn, eating their lunch, whatnot. And that was like, honestly, the first that I've seen someone do that. I thought that I was one of the first people to do it. Because I actually get it from someone else's idea. That was something I literally just thought about that would be creative. Maybe someone else has probably done it before. But I just thought that that would be sick to do. Why not show people? And like, I would crack jokes in the newsletter videos. And I'd like to do funny things in them. And that's what makes it interesting. And that's how people learn also faster. The cool thing about it is like it felt like you were getting the inside jokes. Yeah. You were getting the inside, you were actually getting to know you. And because when you're on YouTube, like it is such a retention game. Like you have to be really strategic with curiosity gaps, open loops, not giving away too much. And so it's like this really ends up being a really engineered, controlled message, which isn't like actually your personality. Even though it is your personality in a weird, meta way.

1:08:00It's a molded way of my personality that adapts into what YouTube wants with the newsletter. It's me talking to you. How I am now speaking my mind, cracking the jokes I want to crack and not thinking whether you're going to click off the video or not. And it's, you know, it's the funniest thing. Is that on those newsletter videos. That are eight or 10 minutes long. I had 70% retention, 80% retention. But so crazy. High intent people that wanted to learn value. The newsletter now is at 16, 17,000 people. Whenever I send out a video, I see whether it's eight, nine minutes, 60, 70% of the people watch all the way to the end. And so these are literally just like unlisted, unlisted videos that only go out to them. So it's on your main channel. So you posted video publicly on your channel. But then you also will post your newsletter exclusive private videos on the same channel just unlisted. So they have to have the link to be able to watch it. Yeah. So no one knows what those unlisted videos are apart from if you're in the newsletter. And I even have a vault that you can go through to watch all the past on the list. Yeah. And those are still, I would watch those. So you have 500,000, 2000 views sometimes.

1:09:01Yeah. And so those are like the really committed people. Yes. I bet like 80% of those people joined the vault in YouTube portal for sure. That's a such a good nurturing mechanism too. Like your YouTube, YouTube is a game of like maximizing for views and getting attention and making this polished thing. And then capturing the lead, like the serious people, the high intent people on a newsletter, then using that extra layer of a video. Just so much work. But I don't know how you do all this. Even with the videos I make, I actually now show a lot more of who I am on my main YouTube channel as well. 100%. The challenges are like you do a really good job of like making jokes and showing like you saying combining scripted with little off the cuff brands. Because at the end of the day what makes me different is me. I can't be a clone of what brand is right. Yeah. It's a personal brand. Yeah. I have to have somebody else. So I have to crack those jokes. I have to be me. I have to make those mistakes. So it's all good. Like you said before, I'm mad about the amount of subscribers I have. And that's simply because I know I will have more, but I have been the same person. People will catch on. Like I know I will have more.

1:10:01I know I'll be the base in the space. And it's just a few matter of time. I love you're doing all these things, but they are all aligned. You know, like your YouTube channel flows into a program, your program flows into your software. All like it's just two sides at the same coin. So did you map this out before you started or is it just kind of one by one? It fell into place together. So originally the plan was to make a personal brand and I kind of share what I can do and what I've done. So that was step one. Step two was let's make a software company because we think it's a problem that we could solve. And I didn't really attach it to like an ecosystem yet. I'm the, uh, info product or the idea for the course came along and we were like, okay, wait, this is actually all one. Like my brand is short form, Krayway short form, the course is short form. It's one. Like I am, I'm not deviating into selling a dropshipping course here. I'm doing what I know to do. I'm not starting a dropshipping software company.

1:11:03And so it's all intertwined. And I think that's helped me stay on track and also be able to balance it all because like if it's all intertwined, it's all of somewhat the same if you think about it. Like it all funnels into the same. It's one mission. It's one party. But I do want to test out my abilities with something that has nothing to do with anything because I think that'll be fun. And I also think that's a very good test if you can run business properly because now I'm not a square zero anymore. I'm a bit ahead and I know like if I started a new company in the same space, I have a competitive advantage because I know what's work. But what if I become a baby again? What if I started something that's never been done? So like that's like a real time. You're just trying to challenge yourself to make money now. I love it. Tell me how you can handle building all these businesses. Like you're obviously not developing Krayo. So you have a team there. You're still making YouTube content. And I know you're probably not editing those videos. And then now you're running an entire paid ad. Your funnel's pretty deep.

1:12:03Like it's pretty smart funnel. Like very not complex but like professional. And so how are you like spinning out all these businesses so quickly and so successfully? I don't understand. To be honest with you, I don't have a tolerance for like if I'm being overworked or not. So I'm sure I'm overworked myself technically speaking. But I just love. I love this stuff. I have time because I'm 17. Like I'm 17 and although I run all these businesses, which do take up a ton of time. Right now I'm not focused on growing new businesses. I'm focused on honing in what I have. And to be honest what I have now is pretty manageable with like a solid work day. Like every single day my focus is on the program, the newsletter, the software company, the brand, those four or five things. And I'm very focused on those and those take a lot of brain power and stress every single day. I'm always stressed, always, always. But the way I've been able to do it and kind of come up also with new successful ideas has just been by the people I've been around.

1:13:08Like to be honest with you, the team for Krayo, being around them to scheme up new ideas. And then being around people that I've just met to scheme up new ideas is the way like if I was just. If I was back when I was 15, make money with Snapchat. I wouldn't be able to kind of execute what I have now. It's just simply come by me trying to be in the field more often and trying to learn like ways around starting companies faster. And I don't care if I fail. I don't care because I know that I will succeed eventually. I don't care if I don't make money now with a business. I don't care if I don't make money in six months with a business because I know I will make it in 12 months. I know I'm good enough. I've tried and tested it multiple times. There were times where I wasn't confident enough in my muscle as a business person. Could I replicate this once? Could I do it twice? But I think, I don't know where I heard this from. I think it might have been you actually. It's that a real business person isn't like met by the first time they've been successful. It's by the second, third, fourth. It's a muscle that you have to keep retraining. And at this point, I'm very confident that I've done it one time with Snapchat, two times with short,

1:14:11three times with the software, four times with the news that I'm trying to do it over and over again. So I have that confidence with whatever I start is going to be very calculated. And even if it doesn't show dividends right away, it will eventually because I have my mind locked in and figuring out solutions always. You've built like such quality teams. Like you partner with Musa on Krayo, genius move. I'm sure you guys are like splitting equity evenly. You probably have a developer that has a little bit. Then from there, you actually have your program team. Again, you have a growth operator on the background helping you like build the business, build out everything, build out the paydats, all the systems there. And I'm sure he gets a percentage of stuff. Then you have a newsletter, which seems like you probably have a newsletter writer and then like a distribution team to make sure that's done right. How are you like you that are just like, as it's what I'm saying, like your idea to action is nuts. Like you're like, okay, I'm going to start a newsletter. You write the first few. You start writing, okay, then you text me like, hey, do you know anyone that needs a newsletter that's good at writing newsletters. We're trying to go, we're going to try to take this to 500,000 people in the next month on my holy shit. And then you're just like going and then you find a person and then you get, how do you decide how much to give them?

1:15:12Like listen, I think managing a team and being able to build a good team is a very valuable skill. It's honestly, I think a bit more valuable than coming up with a good idea because the team is what drives the idea. And so I have to give credit to the people that I work with who is Moosa and Alim because the newsletter, the one with 600, 700, 800,000 people is under Crayo. It's a Crayo branch. And so we have just all been skimming together on how to build out good, delegatable systems. And to be honest with you, the real first glimpse I got at building a really good team with Snapchat. We built out systems there for editors, script writers. And one thing I learned back then is that you need to be able to be good at pretty much every role you hire out. At least being able to do it at a minimum level. And so that's one thing I've kind of brought to myself when hiring people as well. So I can understand if they're good. I also don't work with people that I don't like on a personal level. And a lot of people say you don't want to mix personal with business. And I agree with that to a certain extent. But if I can't be a normal person with you crack jokes with you and kind of feel like you're my friend in a way,

1:16:12we're not going to work together for a long period of time. We might not even work together at all because I think that's how you build company culture. It's with people that you go to a movie with. It's with people that you'd go to a long to it and just have a good time. And so everybody I've ever hired has been a person I like want to hang out with. Has been a person who's very passionate about it. Whether they have a lot of experience or not, I always look for people have more experience. But sometimes I've hired insane talent from people who are just so obsessed. Because I know I was obsessed when I was 14, 15. And I might not have the talent. I might not have had the talent to prove it when I was a bit younger. But I always felt like I did. And I can kind of see that sometimes in people, whether they're older than me or not, they're just so passionate, whether they don't have kind of the resume to back it yet. I always like to take risks on those types of people. And so far I've had a hit rate of being more successful than not with hiring talent like that. But also I've learned a lot from hiring talent with people like Alim who's a developer at Crayo who's moved up from being just a developer, handling a lot of employees operations.

1:17:16And then also Musa. Like these people run their own companies. Musa runs his own paid program, which also involves an insane team. He also runs an agency, which does close to 100,000 a month, involves an insane team. Alim, he's only 18, but he's worked at other companies that have raised millions of dollars. He actually like handled a big team of people. I learned a lot from them. I soak up information in places that I'm not experiencing. And that makes me way better. It blows my mind. You're 17. Like when you talk, I'm just like, this is like, this much has to be what happens when you expose kids to the internet. And then they choose the right content to watch or something. It's just insane that you're able to articulate that so clearly and you've actioned it. Because that's literally the most important part. How are you finding people? You seem to have like such a great back end network. Or you're just like, and all these like, all these little online communities that you were in. Like online communities are so valuable, dude. Is that just saying? They're insanely valuable. That's where I've found every single person I've ever worked with has been through a connection online. There's people hustling. There's people hustling in their own fields, trying to make it for themselves or have already made it.

1:18:18And maybe if those people don't want to work with me, they introduce me to someone who does. And it's just all a little web of just people that know people that are good at this, that are bad at that. And eventually you kind of conjure up a team, a culture, a group of people that are focused on a mission. And that's kind of what I've done. I brought people from different areas for the brand. Now work together like they're a team. Different people are together for Krayo. They now work together like they're a team. Same for the fire engine, same for these other companies that I'm going to start. It's just the same formula that I'm going to repeat always. You're doing YouTube. You have a software company. You have YouTube portal running that, doing calls, whatever. You have a newsletter. You have your newsletter. You have the business newsletter. Do you have, like explain to the channels I run on YouTube. Yeah. And the YouTube shorts, like you're actually so running. I guess they're like an ideal way to handle your day to be able to go through this, as you know. It's just like what, do you like what you trust what you're excited about? I wake up and I just work on one thing at a time and get it. But I explain already. So let's say I have a video that needs to go out very soon. That's what's going to be my first priority.

1:19:19If we need to do something very specific with Krayo, it's going to be my first priority. But honestly, there's no productivity checklist. I don't wake up at a specific time every morning. I don't meditate. I don't like to do this then. I literally just wake up and I just put my hoodie on, get to my desk and just crunch out everything I need to do. I'm just working on just things. There is no calendar that I have where I see like, ooh, 7 pm I have this meeting in the end. Like I have meetings that fill into slots. But on a regular basis, just work, work, work, work. And honestly, a lot of the work I have now to be very honest with you is meetings. Like it's calls on getting things done because I've set up teams so that I don't have to be in the trenches. But I still do get in the trenches a lot of times. And that's just because I enjoy it. Like this is because I enjoy it. So I think one thing I wanted to circle back on is when you're working with these people, you're basically choosing a strategy that you think will work. Doing a proof of concept yourself. And putting it out there, kind of seeing how you would do it.

1:20:21And then once you're like, okay, there's some traction this works, then you hire someone for that role and show them how you do it. So it depends because on YouTube, I never edited my own videos on my main channel. I always had an editor. But the editor I had, I vigorously trained on hours and hours of calls. And going back to what you said where I like, I test out a strategy and try it. What I found is that whenever I have a gut feeling about something, not being good, it doesn't perform. And when I have a gut feeling about something, being good at performs. And so from now, it's only going to be the gut feeling. But I also go for people I hire and people I work with and the way I train people. It's like, if I don't need you to be able to do the job, I don't think I want to work with you. And just because I want to be as optimal as possible with the business, I just need killers who can just go with the business. And so there are some roles where I will get in first, try it out and then hire someone out for it. For example, marketing at Krayo, it's just me and Moose at the beginning. We were just marketing. And then we started delegating based on what we saw work. But with unknown designers and editors on the main channel, they're the brand.

1:21:21I'm not really there doing the thumbnails. But what I will do, for example, is I'll create sketches of the thumbnails that I think would be cool. I'll come up with the concept. I'll have someone help me come up with the concepts. That part, it's mostly like, it's done quite a bit by me. And I've been delegating more and more like eventually, the YouTube will be a very thought out run system. But I'm worried that it being a thought out run system ruins what makes the video so special. So it's a fine line. But at the moment, I'm very in love with making really good videos. And so I'm not really worried about that. But the second it doesn't really feel like something I want to do, then I'm going to really push to build insane logistics and systems that just flow through the process. But the most important part of my brand is delegated. Like the strategy sometimes behind things, the editing, it's all very delegated. What is a new belief you've attained that you didn't have a week ago or maybe a month ago that has completely changed the way you approach your business right now? I need to only go into business with people that I truly can be friends with.

1:22:23And I truly have a good time with outside of business. If there's any sort of weird dynamite in the situation, it is not going to last. It just won't last. And that just comes to experience. So how do you balance that with like, I see a lot of people that they choose the convenient option instead of a person who's actually right for the role. And what I mean by that is like, let's start a business. Okay, we need a marketer. And they just use their best friend that's like, hey, do you want to do the marketing? But they don't have the heart and it. I don't find people who are my friends first. I find people I think would be good for the business person. If they end up being good fit for that, then I hire them. But even if they're quality and you don't vibe with them, it's not worth it. It's not worth it because it won't last. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything if you can't work with the other person because working with the other person is the only thing that takes the company forward. So you and Moose get along pretty well. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, we're like boys because we're also very similar industries. Yeah.

1:23:24Like take talk on YouTube. We have very good friends and say with the lady, my very good friend. So if you get along with someone, it will last. It's as simple as that. If you had to talk to a person who doesn't, I've never started a software company before, what you're telling? Find a product that will solve the problem that you are going through. And if the problem is in a market that a lot of people are in, then chances are that it's a very good product. But if it's a problem in a very niche market, then I don't think you should start it. Second, when I mean very niche, I mean like a very, very niche. Even a million people is a good enough business if you can attract all those million people. Two is you need to be able to get eyes. If you don't, then you can get eyes before you start the company. Don't start the company. And if you believe that there's a way you can get eyes, but you don't have it yet, do everything you're power to. Because those two things put together will make a million, a hundred million billion dollar company. Let's say you are a developer or your technical person. You don't know how to get eyes. What do you do? Okay. So this is what you do. A lot of developers are a lot of people in the back end trying to reach out to creators by just cold, the ending of them and being like, hey, I have an idea for a product.

1:24:27Let's work on it together. I get hundreds of those DMs a week. A lot of other people do as well. As a developer, the way you're going to get eyes is by partnering with someone who knows how to get eyes, which is a marketer, a creator, et cetera. But how do you actually get involved with them? You can't just cold them. That's so boring. No one answers cold DMs, especially if there's someone worth working with, they probably get tons. So this is what you do. You have to get a warm lead to the person. And the way to get a warm lead that I've actually done in the past is pay to close mutual money to sweet talk the person into talking to me. And that's when I was a bit smaller. I didn't have as much pull as to talking with people. That's simply what I did. And it worked a lot to me meeting cool people. Second thing I did is I did this for a little streak of time. I actually sent people DMs where it was like, how much do I need to pay you for an hour of your time? No one sends those types of DMs. Everyone just like, hey, can I ask you a question? Bro, just ask me the question. I just asked a lot of people, can I pay you for an hour of your time?

1:25:28How much do you want to get paid? And everyone has a price. I have 100% success rate with that message. 100% success rate. They will name their price. And if you think what you have to offer is worth X amount more times on whatever that price is going to be, you pay that price. You take that risk. You put yourself in a position of now, ooh, I'm a bit deep in now. I have to make this work. I have to convince them. And so let's say someone's 250 bucks for an hour, but you think this is a product that can be worth millions. What is 250 bucks? Pay the 250 bucks, get on the call with them, introduce yourself, and then tell them what you think can change their life and your life. And that can really work. Like stop calling DM people and being like, hey, I think we can do this together. Yeah, I think why would they even want it? Like, what do you do for them? Nothing. Whereas if you get something that they trust to sweet talk them, how do you find someone they trust? Following. Who are they following? Okay. Literally, it's so... DM, hey, do you know this person pretty well? Hey, do you know this person really well? Well, I'm trying to get in contact with them and I'll offer you 200 bucks if you managed

1:26:29to make a group chat because I think I have an opportunity that would really benefit him. And they're not getting those messages from anybody else. You're like, they're like, okay. But there's not going to be a message. You know, like when people say to do something and everyone starts doing it, I feel bad for all the inboxes of people that are about to get flooded with this message. And we already know 99% of people don't take action, right? Yeah, that's very true. Except for all of the people watching. These are action takers. Okay, nice. But yeah, that's honestly a way that I've done it. I can only speak on really what I've done. So that's what I've done to it. I think it's very well done. So we can tell a lot of things, but yeah, I try. I try. Okay, that's really smart. But you can say they can go to them with just an idea, but they have to have the technical skill to do. You need to be mapped out. Like you need to have an actual vision of what's possible in the space. Like it's like the last step that they would need to do is just say, yeah, it's like, listen, this is done. Say yes to me. And this is the thing with Krayo. Yeah. If Krayo hadn't existed and it's something to make these types of videos hadn't existed, someone could have gone to someone like me and be like, hey, I have an idea for a video editor that's going to make it easier for you to make short form videos.

1:27:30This is a demo I've made of what it could look like, but with three months of production, it will be like 10 times better than this. All I need you to do is to get eyes on something like this and no one's ever done this. We will make hundreds of thousands of dollars. If we don't hit this benchmark by month two, I will leave the company and I will pay you for your time. Or I will like give you rights to the company and you can go with another developer that I'll recommend you. You have to be so persistent in your belief. So basically take all the risk. Take all the risk because no risk, no reward. But it's not even that. If I was so confident in Krayo, I would have done that with something. If I needed a developer or something. Or if I was a developer on the line, I would put it on the line because I'm so confident. You need to be so confident. And remember when I went and I talked about feeling with my videos, you need to have a gut feeling that this will work. If you even think a little bit of you that this isn't going to work because of this, then either fix it or don't do it. I'm so excited just listening to you. I'm just like starting out on my head.

1:28:32What do you think they should look for in a creator? Because obviously they have a lot of followers. Yeah. Their idea. What do you look for as a creator? I asked this question earlier and it was what's the difference between audience and influence? Audience is someone who can get a lot of eyes but can't change people's lives. Can't change people's lives. And influence is someone that could send out a message to a hundred people and 90 of those people would change something about them. And so you need to look at people that have influence, not just an audience. Bruce and I had influence. People related to our stories. They related to what we could do. Therefore we told them that this was something they should do. They did it because they related to me. I've done this as well. And that's what influence is. And you build influence by building trust with people. So you need to look at only people who have trustworthy brands and don't go around cutting corners in bad ways. You need to look at people that when you, whenever they post a video, they have comments of people saying, bro, you changed my life. Bro, this happened because of you. I have tons of those in all my videos because I actually try when I make my videos. You don't want to go for people who get millions of views but no one cares about them. No one cares to take any piece of advice they give.

1:29:34No one cares to change a habit of theirs when they mention it. It's always over audience. Really concise. Okay. And so you don't think that that, do you think educational creators just have more influence because that nature of their content? A lot of educational creators only have audiences because they just give advice and none of the audience takes it in because they're bullshitters. You can get a lot of views bullshitting. People who are big in education, where people like Mia has a, who showed you it was possible because he did it himself and he had influence. Mia has I did it almost every video showing you from the ground up that he was like you. And that's what made you trust him to, for example, buy his course or leave a nice message because when you saw a video of his, you thought it was possible as well. So by standard, I guess education creators do have more influence because they're teaching directly education, but a lot of education creators are filled with bluff and fluff and they just have an audience who watches their videos for the controversy or for this and that and then scroll right away. You need to look at people who have influence. The reality of what it takes to be successful and then what people want things to be are

1:30:38like, there's such a big gap between that. This is the set amount of work. This is the level of quality you have to expect. There's the skills that you need. This is the team you need. These are the compounding benefits and advantages that you need if you want to make a million dollars. And some people were like, I want to work really hard. I want to change the world and be a good person. And I'm like, I love that. That's great. But also like, let's get to the reality of what it takes to get results. You know what's interesting? It would be very goal, like, detail oriented of your. At one point, I was someone who wanted to make money and then at one point, I'm someone who does make money. And so I know now from just experience, like nothing else, that the way I got to where I am here, I'm not giving like a blueprint right now. All I'm saying is that it was a very variable journey. It was never that I worked every day, 10 hours a day. It was some days I thought she worked none and some days I didn't sleep. And so it was a variable journey of just working a lot sometimes, not working a lot sometimes, doing this a lot more. Like I saw one specific problems for like a week straight and then I'd never focus on it again. Like, it's not a journey that goes like this. It's like something that goes like a bit like that and then it goes that like, it's not

1:31:42a blueprint that someone can ever give to you. Right. There's got to be like a subset of people out there that are probably thinking like, of course it's software successful. He had an audience and then like discounting your software success. But I'm like, but then it's like, dude, like you spent no one's born with an audience. No one's born with skills. Like you did the work required to get skills. You did the work required to get credibility. You did the work required to get the audience. You made all the videos. You posted consistently, came up with the ideas. Then you built an audience and you built a product and now you can find people in there. At one point I was a blank canvas. Exactly. And a lot of everyone, that should inspire the fuck out of anyone listening to this. At one point I was a blank canvas. Everyone starts with a blank canvas. And just be excited about it. And so it's like, how did I make something out of nothing? That's not a miracle. A lot of people actually do it. Whether you think a lot of people say that rich people are in the top 1%. I actually don't believe in percentages simply because anybody could do it. And so if everybody did it, it would no longer be a 1% thing. But I know everybody could do it. Most people just don't do the action. Most people don't do the action. And that makes it a 1% thing. It makes it because most people don't do the action that it only is 1% of people that do.

1:32:47And action is also finding the information. Right? Like you didn't learn most of the, like you didn't just come up with the stuff. You learned this by yourself. I learned it by watching videos. You started at 10 years old. Yeah, like I started at earlier than 10. I have videos out from when I was 8.7 that I've actually posted on Instagram. I have a video from when I was maybe 9 years old saying I really want to pursue YouTube. YouTube is something that I'm very passionate about. I uttered those words when I was 9 when I was making magic videos on YouTube. And those videos are out for everybody to see. But it's just kind of like at the time, by the way, like, I didn't think I was manifesting it. I just said it because I was a little kid and I like YouTube. But looking back on it now, it's very interesting to see that that was always something that was in the back of my mind. And it just goes back to the fact that like people hear this all the time and that's why it's kind of annoying for me to say it. But anybody can do it, bro. There's no doubt about it. It's just all the information is successful. You just have to access it and then practice it. Yeah. Access and practice it. Nice. But I just want to go back to your product now because I love, I like, like I love talking

1:33:51about like motivation, inspiration, mindset stuff because like you just have been in the game for 10 years and it's just sheer determination and excitement for your work. I would love to know what your like, why do you want $100 million? What are you going to do? $100 million. I think $100 million would be nice to have. To be honest, I don't really have like a money goal, like a number that would like set me off to be happy and set me off to be fulfilled. I think what I'm chasing is just like a counter on a screen. Yeah, scoreboard and it's just like the scoreboard goes up and it goes up and it goes up. And it makes me more confident every time it goes up. It makes me a bit of a happier person and I was obviously happy before I made money. I don't think money is the direct correlation to happiness, but I really enjoy the game of making money. I love the game of making business and the reason I love it is because I have times where I'm so stressed, so upset, so pissed off that something went wrong and I just want to never do anything again. But then I have these blissful moments of like everything is going right.

1:34:51And like the fruits of my labor are here. Look what I've worked towards. And just this, this such like different worlds that you kind of feel in business and you know it's the craziest thing about business and the thing I love the most is that you can be in those two different worlds in two days. On one day you can be the happiest person and then on day two you can be the saddest. And it's like a game of like how do you not be sad and how do you be more happy? It's the act of creation where you're probably the most fulfilled. Like at the end of the day of working 12 hours to build Kraya, probably feeling way better about yourself than two days off. It's so sick guys like something now that people, a lot of people know the word Kraya and they don't know me and they don't know Musa. That's the sickest thing in the world. People know my company without knowing who owns the company. And the fact that I remember our conversation of making this company in an apartment altogether is like this was nothing. Someone on earth knew what Kraya was and it was just some kids talking about it in an apartment and now it's this thing that a lot of people know and they don't know who created it. Okay, so how do we make how did you make Kraya good enough to get to that point?

1:35:53Well, it's just the problem for me. Yeah, you had the problem first hand. The problem that I had first hand, the distribution always make a product if you know you have distribution for it. If you don't, you have distribution for it. Go find distribution. Exactly. And honestly, you could be solving a problem that's more useful than Kraya. If you don't have distribution, you're not going to make more money because we have distribution. And the only act of making money is getting in front of people's eyes. The less eyes, the less money because it's just a mathematical game. And so thankfully, it was a very good pairing. His Musa and I had distribution and then there was the back end system on the other end of the team. And so that worked very well. And that's something that I'm going to recreate for my next companies. Every single company from now on is going to follow that same formula. And honestly, Kraya was just to start simply because it's a problem I had, but I think I could make companies now that shift the market even more. Like I'm going to start a company and actively were working on companies that are going to change like the market.

1:36:54Like it's going to be something that just people use. Like zoom. People use zoom to talk online. People use Google means to talk online. I'm going to make something like that for the markets that I like and it's going to solve a problem. Do you read a lot of books or anything? No. I've only read one book in my life. How to win friends and influence people by the way. That's a good one. That's a good one. Okay. So then do you have like sayings or catch phrases or wisdom that you like follow? Or just wake up do the shit, dude. Listen. I don't. I wish I did because whenever I listen to people who have like these words of wisdom they give, it's like so. I don't want to be able to say those were new fluids. I don't. I just get up and do it. And I know what's interesting is all my notes whenever I hear a word of wisdom or influence, I write it down because I read it to myself before I sleep because it's just something I want to explain to my brain. So I think it's very good to know these like catch phrases and words of influence because it's something that is deep in your subconscious. These people that can just bring out these insane quotes and sayings have that idea deep in their subconscious.

1:37:55They really believe in it because if you believe in it, you're going to store it in your memory and they do because they can just rip it out when someone asks them. So what I try to do is whenever I hear something that impacts me in some way because I was just seen random take talk videos or podcasts where someone says a little sentence that kind of changes the way I view something or kind of makes me like, bro, that's like so true. And I write that down and I read it over and over before I sleep pretty much every night I'm not going to lie. And then simply because I think eventually that can get implanted in my brain and I can be one of the people that has those quotes because if I have that implanted my brain, I will act accordingly to what those said and that would just make me better. Interesting. Explain how you perceive self conscious. Why is it important for you to have that? I think it's important because most of the actions you go through on your daily basis are based off your subconscious or what you've learned in the past. You're learning new things every day but the way you interact with people is the way you were raised to interact with people. That's in your subconscious. Some people are subconsciously rude because they grew up in that environment so they'll

1:38:57be rude to you. They don't know why they're doing it but they are. So if I'm subconsciously getting these good sayings in my head, understanding deep topics in my head, whether I remember it, if I take the time to study it for a few weeks, months whatever, then eventually I quote unquote forget about it on my daily memory, it will now be implanted in my head but I'm going to act like that person. That's what I believe because I've actually tried it. I've re-read sayings a ton and it's kind of like implanted in my head. So like programming yourself basically. I actually, I want to pull up just one thing that I had on my notes. Read them all if you want it because this one was really interesting to me. So here. So there is one where it was like the source of insecurity is comparing your behind the scenes moments to everyone's highlights. Like that's a lot of people's source of insecurity. Like everyone who wants this podcast knows that feeling. Like you always compare what's really going on in the trenches with you to a people show on mine.

1:39:57And that just kind of put it in perspective to me just one time when I read it. Another one was kind of a lot deeper and it was, if a bird lands on a branch, does it trust the branch or does it trust its wings? I've seen many branches break when birds are on them and the bird never falls and dies. It always flies off because it trusts its wings. And so that's something I've been reading every night after I heard it and just planting it in my subconscious. And I think it's made me trust myself more and more that I'm going to trust my wings. Like it sounds a bit like stupid and like weird to say, like, I'm going to trust myself more and more because no matter what happens, if everything goes to shit, I will still trust in myself to bring it back. And I think that's what that saying represents. Like you know you are capable of doing the work required to succeed. 100%. And you will figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. That's the confidence. I have tons of tons and tons of these in my phone. And you do them before bed? Before bed.

1:40:57Why before bed? Because I dream about them. So I read them before bed and it kind of implants and somehow some way like the dream kind of revolves around it. It's not like it's weird. I don't know. But it happens. And so you think it's right before bed, then you're dreaming about it, which means you're like actually getting double. You're thinking about it even more. And sometimes I even write down quotes of things I realized myself. So there was someone a friend of mine that said that he's in a war every day with people who don't even know he exists and don't even think of him on a daily basis. And I'm like, that's very true. I am in war every day. Like I'm finding against you and you probably don't know I'm doing it. I'm trying to be better than you every day. And you probably don't even realize I am. You probably think I'm not even thinking about you, but I'm in a war against you every single damn. I'm trying to be better than you. I'm trying to figure out how you did what you did to be better and you probably don't even know it. Ignorance is bliss on your own just wandering off and I'm like in a war here trying to become better than you. And I realized that I wrote it down and I read that as well every night because it's like, it's very true.

1:41:57Like I am in a war every day and I don't want to forget that because people are in a war against me every day, whether I know it or not. Someone's trying to comfort what I have and they're talking with their friends in private like I do. And they're going ahead and trying to like figure out ways to get ahead of me and setting my methods. And I know I'm doing it for other people. People are doing it for me. Does he hear some game? Yeah. And it's competitive. It's war. It's much to be like to be friendly. It's war. It's very much so war. And so that's why I like had to like grow up also a bit quicker from like, like last time I was 15 and I'm 17, but I feel like I've grown way more than any of the 17 year old wood in that time span. It's simply because I've been through like so many things in business now. Like in the last year and a half, my life has gone from pretty normal to very abnormal. And so I've had to adjust very quickly as well. And so I've kind of added a lot of shields, taken a lot of. Do you feel like you're, this is just going to, I know you don't feel this way at all, but do you feel like you're wasting your child? Not at all. No, I'm having the best time of my life.

1:42:58And the reason for this, actually an interesting question you just asked me. And the reason for this is because a lot of people don't have friends. They don't have close friends. They only have business friends. They talk to one of the surface level about business. And the reason I don't think I'm wasting my childhood is because I still have the very close friends that I grew up with since I was three. And I said this on a podcast before, but there's only two times you can really make friends in your life. One, it's at school when no one has expectations of who you are and you're there because you genuinely like the person. And two is when you're coming up in business and everyone is there on the grind together. And those are the two times I think you can really make the best friends in your life. And I've gone through those two times right now. I think I'm going to go through new starting points in new businesses where I'll make new friends. But like I think that's like a good thing to keep in the back of my head that like, bro, I met you for the first time when I was coming up. Like my brand was not a thing. This is what jump started at all. And so like someone like you, I always message you for advice, et cetera, because you're

1:44:01someone that I trusted when I was smaller. And so like I said, only two times, I think you can really make trustworthy people. I'm sure there is like abnormalities to that and you'll make friends what not. But I think those are two very impactful times in your life. 100% since we, by the way, how we got in contact is you though this DMed me. And you said, bro, I'm going to have your most popular podcasts. And then it was like then it's just immediately what you've done. Yeah. And then my sister, I didn't even see it. My sister saw it and then texted me like, hey, there's an interesting DM from someone. You should see it. Didn't believe you. But then you linked all of it. I'm like, oh, shit. Okay. And then you looked into you and you're like, okay, it seems legit. And then within what a week you were from Cypress to America for the first time in Arizona at 15. Yeah, like I knew that's when I wanted to start the brand. And I knew I wasn't going to start the brand until I had a push from someone else that showed people my life because I wasn't going to, you used me, bro. I wasn't going to go through the basic blueprint. Everyone else does where they grind from zero, zero, zero, zero. I had an interesting story to tell. So why not tell it in front of a big audience first?

1:45:01So I reached out to you and I knew it would hit because I knew my story was very, very abnormal. And so I messaged you and I sent you all the references. I was very quick and concise. And then you're assistant saw and I freaked out when you were a citizen saw it because I'm a step closer now. Yeah. And then you messaged me from like your account, you went on the account and you gave me your number. And then I was like, this is getting closer, closer, closer. And then when I was at the desk for the podcast, I was shaking. I was like, this is real now. Like, I can't fumble it up. And I like I stumbled a few times in that podcast. I was nervous or what not. But that was like the introduction and everything. I just love that it was intentional. Like you literally were like, I need a launch pad. Like I need like a platform to like, yeah, bring me, introduce me to the world. And then once I have that, then I can go wild. You know, it's funny is I tested out before. I posted a couple of videos and they didn't do well. And I was like, okay, now I'm going to try launching myself first and then post it and reset to everything. I deleted the other channel. I went on yours and then I posted a video and then my brand was on it was I just trial and error it. Just crazy. You did have a little bit of a Twitter audience, which probably helps a little bit. But still, that's such a smart strategy.

1:46:02And just shout out to your outreach message dude. It was like, I'm going to have your most popular podcast. This year's old, this is what I've done. Proof. Let me know when we can do it. Look where we are now. Yeah. And it was some, hey, Brett, lovely content. Think you have a really good podcast. Yeah. Conf mini me for six paragraphs. And you just, to the point you were about it. And obviously you weren't a lot of people lack self-awareness, but you were like the real deal. So it's cool. And now look at you, bro. Like it's crazy. Well, you've done just a year and a half since then. Almost a million dollars a month in business revenue now. But with a $50 million, $100 million business exit, just a software exit right around the corner. Hopefully we run this back next year and I'm going to come see you soon. You're going to be a billionaire by then, dude. Oh, dude, run up the scoreboard. Yeah. Run up. Keep us updated. Thank you for coming back. Give us this year's update. There. Tana learning Tana lessons in here. Bro, keep crushing it. Let's go. Great. Pawn. This episode is brought to you by Born in Roma fragrances by Valentino Beauty, the iconic fragrance duo. Donna Born in Roma, Ode to Parfume is a feminine fragrance featuring juicy black current central

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