How Leigh Hart Built a Snack Empire by Breaking Every Business Rule

0:00So you probably know Leigh-Hot is one of New Zealand's funniest people, but what you might know knows that behind the ridiculous characters in TV shows is a very clever entrepreneur. Leigh has spent decades building an audience and then figured out how to turn that audience into an actual business launching, Baka Chang-E-Bair, and Stank-A-Chang-E-Chips into some of the most competitive categories in the market. And he also did it without following the traditional business playbook. So today we're going to be getting inside Leigh-Hot's business brain, its ear and produce a holly. Big ideas need good fuel and that is why this episode is powered by brute. For Ristic Quality Ice Coffee and Marche, made for making things happen, now available at World's Nationwide. Hello and welcome to Make It Happen. The podcast will weed out into all things money, mindset, manifestation and more because I want to help you make money and create your dream life. Leigh, welcome to the show. How's it in Trey? How's it in Trey? Yeah, it's a hell of a TV.

1:01I can't keep up with it. Yeah, before we get into things, could you please take us back to how this all began? What you get here? I was more interested in making a career in a life in TV or S U Music, in sleep initially, but it didn't quite work out, so I've morphed into TV. Look, that I probably met at TV and I wasn't music. So now we're new in TV. We're on that level, I get nine. Everything is the kind of cold following all the time because which was great in the long run, the semester, I did it. At the time, I was really a fout underappreciated all the time, why on this time slot? I said, it's a show and there we've been. So you have an ego in arrogance about it. Then I got into business stuff outside of the say, say, TV. It was a way of funneling some of that frustration, but also ideas that we still had that were, you know, this is an idea that's going to be a limb hook and I on a TV show, I put it on a beer pack, put it on a laptop, a chip packet, writing, you know, it was a creative release as well. So I think all that sort

2:07frustration, but also creativity ended up going into more of a commercial environment as opposed to creative, you know, or, you know, a ward within TV show environment, but I still like to be both. That's possible, you know. Who should have thought it was like heaven then, sort of to products? What makes you pick the exact right to put? It wasn't that commercially money, it wasn't like, I wanted to make money, but more cash and on the goodwill and the vibe of the whole thing. So I thought, shit, what's one thing I could probably do? And I think it was beer, I suppose, you know, a lot of people, you know, the late day, I'll have a beer three, this kind of thing. So I'll be with the good sort of angle. She's a Facebook post, things starting to be brand and shut the name out there, we're getting super name and just went off. Oh shit. And then I thought, now I've got to do it. You know, it was honestly like, oh God, I've committed myself now. So I just started to be a thing that went pretty good and that kind of morphed into the chip. So it wasn't

3:09the conscious thing like, I'm going to get a whole lot of people around me, business team, I'm going to start a FMCG company, or not at all, it was purely, we're in the office. There's only three of us there, me, a cameraman and a young lady who was made with us and I said, look, instead of chasing up guests for a TV show or a dirty TV show, you're selling beer now. And I'm like, oh, cool. You know, it was just, and again, this good example that nothing is unique, everything is selling in some sort of way. Yeah. I think it's interesting to jump into that. So this earlier this year, we got into a concert, it's actually vocal clicks. Oh, it's a very complex side. Dungeon is an econ. It's a huge tissue to throw. Well, you're right. And I'm lucky enough, I suppose. I'm lucky enough that I've been purely on the branding side of it. You know, I'm not going to take credit for the wins that they've had on the convocative FMCG side of it. You know, I'm saying with the chip script and done that and that's a real partnership.

4:13I couldn't have done that without, you know, I like to think they couldn't have done it down me, but my skill or, you know, stuff is more the branding, the rock and roll side of it, from Farno, and it goes, oh, yeah, at least got this brand. But really, there is that side of it. So if you were to start, if I was to start all that uniquely on my own, I don't mind. I'll be here to talk to you guys right now. You know, but I think that's like, you're sticking to your zone of genius because you had, was it like 25-year career and television in storytelling? Yeah. And that storytelling is what comes across in your branding and in products. Totally. And I think sticking to your lane is important. So for example, there's that old cliche, you know, that TV term, you know, that just the shark, you know, before you guys stay, it's come down to a happy day's episode where they were the worst episode ever, but it would really try to come up with shoot episodes that trying to match, trying to catch in too much on the same idea. I always thought, for example, would you buy beer for me, you know, or not every I would, but

5:19would some people buy beer for me? Yeah. Would you buy sausages from the ES you like? Would you buy potatoes at something? Cool chips? Yep. Would you buy running shoes for me? Would you buy maybe smooth suit pads from it? No. I imagine I'm sitting here. There's a barbecue here. Can I reach that thing we're talking about? Can I, yep, I can, I'm going to be a bit, I'm going to have a trip about welcome all year. I can go to dip. You trust me on that. You know, because I'm an asker and trustworthy. I'm not going to buy, make up for me. You're not going to buy beer products for me. You're not going to buy, you know, so stick to your lane just because you've had a profile and you've done well in certain spheres and I'm going to be very obvious now because I'm going to buy hair products for me. Maybe you most have many people who said they've been, oh yeah, we've got a brand now, we're going to do that. I mean, I think even someone as amazing as

6:19Dan Carter, I think, struggled to sell clothing at some point. True. Okay. Can I pause there? Because the rock actually was selling a shampoo and conditioner and novelty though, a quick novelty no little sell, but it's not going to be a long-term proposition. Why aren't you being super mad for five years? No, exactly. But I feel like that's everything you're talking about is like this big personal brand that you've built yourself. Do you call it that? Yes, I do and I don't, but I like it to be there's a reason, I'm saying with the potato chips or the beer, it's called great angle Kenny. I've always tried to invent a persona, I suppose, behind it and it's not like, you know, I'm from dead. They can go around because he's supposed to be dead anyway. But it's more of a case it can't be so much about you because it's going to be pretty about there that like that he's a dickhead, I'm not going to buy his chips. Okay, you can't make it that way. Let's give you a bit of that guy. Oh yeah, I love him. I'm going to buy everything he buys. You can't build a business bottle on that either. It has to be something that I don't have a clue who that guy is. It's still a good

7:23product and it still works. Oh shit, I didn't know he owned that. I didn't know he started that. That's the kick that's the bonus if you had to mean. And I certainly helped him beginning, maybe getting meetings with people. But you can't establish a brand. I don't think on as very few brands in the world, Leilin, you're selling that actually hinged on a personality. Can you name one? Well, can you? I can't. I'm not here. But I think we're having this concession the other day saying like there are some brands with a very powerful leading face. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the business will also be successful. It certainly helps increase the wheels, especially in the start of it, to get things happening. But I was more about making sure this goes back to the TV side about getting the attitude and the tone into the brand. What's the tone of that brand? Oh yeah, it's really cool. It's kind of a really hard-ish. It means I don't have to be there.

8:27Sally and myself is my gran and Halkeni. That is Sally and who's gran, I'm some guy invented. But that's the sort of thing. As opposed to hinging it or hitting it to a persona, it was very risky. A, by the way, I end up in the papers cancelled. Yeah, it cancelled. Yeah. Oh, that happened. You're like, you know, but all of a sudden, yeah, it's pretty shit. Oh, yeah, I know. That's gypsy. What the hell? You know, so I was never from an ego saying, trying to go, yeah, I'm going to do this bread on me. It was purely taking the attitude and the humour and the frustrations from TV that I had and putting it into something tangible that would bring me return every week as opposed to every set of months, every time I decided to make a TV show. You know, so it was really that that was that, but has never been about me if that makes any sense. Yes. It doesn't seem to us all that rent. No, it does. It makes sense. It's, yeah, you've had this

9:33humour that you've felt, this cult following. Yeah, the humour, the energy, the cult following. Why do you say that humour works so well? I know it's very quintessentially kiwi. Is it something that you work hard on to try and think about what will be funny? Or is it just like if you worked on it, it wouldn't be funny. Kiwi humour by definition always has been self-deprecating. You know, our stuff I love best is when it's funny. You know, I love stuff. The sport is stupidest scenes. We were in Mexico recently with the concepts which I was going to do in the scene and I just love the scene where you look like either it, you know, but you're still cool, but you're near the, you know, you walk into a bar. There's a bar made there. It's a killer thing. She slides it down and goes right off the bar, smash this and you miss it. She goes, another one, I'm going to walk out. You know, and it's jokes that you're laughing at you. You walk out, you see it, you know, and that's how I like. It's got to be, the jokes are going to be on you.

10:36If I did that scene and the joke was on her, it's not funny. I don't find it funny and it's not the same. That's more of a got your humor or the jokes got to be on me. Not in the bad, I don't want to look like an idiot. But the brand, the cool brand that's paying you, they've got to look like, everyone else, they've got to look like New Zealand, they've got to look cool. And I'm the guy that's highlighting how cool they are, but the jokes get to be on me, even I'm in, but I end up still coming out of the cool. You know, in the sense that he's quite funny, but you know, I mean, it can't be a sort of got your type humor or an allergy type stuff for you, sort of, which I love, I like, but which you're sort of, it's not undividing people, you know? Yes, I would say like, allergy works great in England with a very quite serious, but I think, you're right, I think very self-deprecating. She was very kiwi. Yeah, but there's got a conscious thing. I mean, I think kiwis are like that, my

11:38founders are that way, you know, no one's better than anyone else. And it doesn't matter how much money you've got, how a little, you're all just kiwis. And yeah, that's how I was brought up in my parents were bloody ass, I thought they're all their life, that I know much about the TV, so could world, so I know how should I, you know, they, I'm not going to be any anything different than them, that from where we're from the west coast and the south-hand, to the ground-out, that's where it comes from, you know, it's very real. On the flip side of that, I feel like everybody that I talked to was like, they have to kiwi legends, I think people love your products, they love what you do, but have you ever experienced talk-upies in Durham in New Zealand? Not really, but I'd certainly know what you're talking about. Yeah. And I got it myself, I see sometimes people that are sharing that stuff, wasn't that funny? Once he got TV shut, you know, honestly, we're all in that bloody, that same thing. I like the thing, I'm not that way, because you want everybody to do well,

12:43but it's a real thing in New Zealand, and maybe it's a real thing everywhere, but because we've got such a small population, it only takes five people out of 200 to go, oh, whatever, for me, you know, other people are better at it, and they go, oh, look at it, I still go, wow, they're not just trying to see how much the post went, because it's so many ships we can set, you know, and I am, I have a new young conscience, I want to, one to love me, I'm pretty do, and when you have the odd person that goes, and I suddenly go, ah, he doesn't love me, I just wish he knew me, you know, I'm a good guy, I like to have my waist of that much energy on this guy who, who clearly he's just done it, he's got no idea, but he's quite every right to have that opinion, but he doesn't know me, yeah, I prefer someone did know me, comment, and sorry, he's a dick, you know, yeah, because at least they know me, and they can go, but they probably wouldn't bother, and I might think that better by all of

13:44else, but it's always someone who doesn't, and yeah, there is a tall, property thing in New Zealand. And it's so funny, because you can have like, like you say, 200 comments, and you know, 195 of them are positive, and then you see the five that you better mean, and it's like, that's what you take to heart. Yeah, look, you guys write that, you know, your hair looks great, you might have done it yesterday, I don't know, your hair looks bad, did they say, thank you, there you go, that's one comment from a friend, oh, yeah, and you go, oh shit, next day, and the whole day, you're thinking, sing guessing your whole decisions, when the hell, you know what I mean, you're a hero, too, as well, so you go, as I'm trying to say, is that, what the hell? I think it's come more zillionth it. I think I have, I'm very lucky, I haven't started, because I came with the brand, I had the brand, I had the editor, I had the images, the stuff, and it was Griffin's New Zealand from South, or the chips that got behind me, right?

14:45They only got behind me, okay, let's be clear, because yes, I didn't have a persona to expose what happened was I was in an office going, shit, we need to ignutz or chips. Which bus next? Yeah, I actually got along with me, that we'd started. Yeah, and I just, my mates editing away there, it's getting really good, it's making another background range, quite about stuff is going to shut up here. So I just been on the phone, I started ringing up all the snap people from the phone, but really, I didn't have a clue, no research, nothing. Griffin's was the only one I got back to me, just as a woman, good friend of mine now, Julie, she got back to me, and said, yeah, come ahead, the meeting, this is cool. So I'm one of these people that goes, I'll get the meeting first, then I'll work out what I'm going to do at the meeting, if you know me, and I think that's good attitude thing to have, because if you've got a week before that and the meeting, you've got, that's a lot of time to sort of shut out. A lot of people do the opposite, they'll try and sort the get all the darts in a row,

15:47for a whole year, then try and get a meeting, that I am getting a meeting, and then all the stuff have done is relevant anyway, get the meeting first, then really focus you do, and make you go, shit, let's just go in there with what we really want to do, and my cast, oh yeah, so I'm at the worst advice, my case, I said, let's go in there doing nuts. I showed up, I went all the way to South Auckland, their officers in sort of realign, I went all the way out to a really kind of way I thought were there with on the address, I was two hours late to the meeting, I could believe it, and there was a board meeting, there was six of them sitting there waiting for me, as I said, shit, they still want me to come, they're on the phone, the streets are sweating, got there, said, okay anyway, yeah, answer waiting, nuts really kind of do nuts, and they said, well, there's no money nuts, we don't make any money out about nuts, and I said, I'm covered, did you see the foot? I don't really mean nuts, I mean chips, chips is what I really want to do, and they'll never, chips, I add cool, what sort of chips, oh fuck,

16:53now we know this, I'm looking around, we obviously can't make guns, well you know, what are you doing now? And they go, wow, we do a thin one, we do a critical, we do a thick one, we do a kettle fried, I said, wow, exactly, can you do all that to the same chip, that's what I've been thinking, all my life, I have a passion for, I've been thinking about this for four years now, yeah, and now we're going, they look around the room, can we do that to the, probably some go down in the earring, yeah, could do that, next thing you know, there's what we did, and you know, it was kind of that, that organic and that ridiculous, and I tell that story, remember occasions, and I'm, keep thinking of them, they'll actually, but it's actually exactly how it was, but I'm not, I'm not advising other people have this Razifair attitude, it wasn't Razifair attitude, the attitude was getting the meeting, that was the key thing, because you don't know, in that meeting who's going to be there, and if the meeting was too excited, that could be

17:54a whole new staff, it could be, if too much, you know, there could be another staff, they were more open to it, or not open to it, you don't, you don't know what's going on up here, but this is the seizures, get in there, and, and give them a crack, obviously make some sense when you're in there, have some passion, they'll look like an idiot, my kind, probably did, with the first 20 minutes that read it, but it's, it's amazing, I've got two kids now who are tired of university, I hope you believe they're probably doing, I thought I'd say this, I don't even know what they're doing, and I don't care if that makes any sense, some sort of commerce stuff, they'll be business about whatever, but what they can't teach down there is, they haven't a crack doing it, you've really got to do it, and the more educated, have you ever seen someone who's 48 or 50, and I've got friends, the series who've been smart of us, and me, it's been in business all their life, all their life, they know everything inside out, marketing, they know all this,

18:58I've got to get inside our own business now, they wouldn't know where to start, that's scared, they're going to show, they're trying to play anything they've known for the last 30 years, into, into it, and it doesn't work, what they, the only thing they don't have, which is the most important is the, it's the 80% of it, just give it a go, especially when you're young, because you can buck up 100 times before you get it right. Yeah, we'll be at good with that, and say, it's like this is who they do too much research, so much research, like just do something, do it, he had your own thing. I had a good friend, I was doing the beer for a while, and we were looking at another sort of angle, maybe some spirits or something into it, and he's very experienced, and I want to grab a lot of that out of it, straight away, we have it if he is, this is where the idea came from, this is where it should start, this is where it should continue from. I was straight away the next day, I've got these, I've got this done, and then this is research, this is what that's in. Your research is doing it, if they buy it, it's working for a don't,

20:01it's not working. Yeah, I appreciate it, when the magic of your product is you and your creativity, and you're diluting it by bringing in a whole bunch of investors that maybe is too early. Yeah, totally, because you know, in some cases, you know, you talk, you know, again, I was really talking about school here, because there's so many business models and different stuff, and you need investment for property and development, although I get that, but in my case, I'm just under my case, really, really was just ideas and checking your name on a backup of a buddy beer can, you know, you don't really, I'm not out, I'm not buying a factory, I'm not buying a chip factory, I'm using glyphons to brand my product. Okay, so you don't really need a lot of the messes into a brand, you know, just a pure branding experience, you obviously do when you're investing into capital situation, I get that. That's above my pay rate, I can't talk about that, as I say before, sticky lane, you think you're good at potato chips, when the economy goes down, people buy more,

21:09so launching your stampers is how much, if you can just know, how much of your amated you put it? Other than time zero, actually, so starting with the beer, the beer might have been actually in the beer, or it was into your case of going, I got a brewery to contact my manufacturer, so you've got beer, I've got an idea, can we put that in the same bottle of the candy, we'll take that there, so I think I probably had to do the first production run, which, you know, would mean maybe 20 grand or something, and then theoretically that would have sold and paid for South Strader Way, and there's up to you whether you keep rolling that over, and it could have crossed your money, it could, if you started to get ahead of yourself, which almost happened, so people, it actually got quite popular quicker than it should have been, and there were people, supermarkets and stuff, order that we hadn't even known about, so pallets were going left behind the center and I was going, shit, it was just great on the surface, but you know, things

22:13go wrong, like I remember I was chasing pallets and tumoury over, what the hell, what the hell, what the hell, what the hell, what's the do now that, oh, it's supermarkets order, you know, and you know, it's funny, the most exemplary, a god, that's where Patelius could have gone a little bit, if he, because I was literally, I'm paying you to make beer, then it was selling it, I'm paying you, you know, so it's good, but I was a TB coming with free staff, we're not chasing up missing pallets and to need, and it's, you know, it could have, so I kind of sold it and shut it down, until another brewery, Macassian's brewery, now some camomod, it said, we'll partner with you, we'll do all that stuff, all the logistics, we'll do all the manufacturer and the selling distribution, we've got raps, all you got to do is the branding and the marketing, thank god, right, so that's kind of how it worked, and from then on the model carrying on, I suppose, with the chips and stuff, so what, you know,

23:14my disorganisation, my skills were highlighting and my weaknesses were spoo the doughnut, I suppose, it's about two parts to a right, like you said, the marketing, getting the brand out, like getting to go buy it, and then the operations actually keep me running, oh totally, it's true, that's the people, oh, two types of people, but they do go hand in hand, you know, like I used to get off actually on the other aspects of the business, that as you mentioned, not technically involved, and like, you know, trying to solve, and I think I did it in some occasions, but they also had the luxury, I'm not having to do it every day, and just stick to my knitting and do the other wacky crap, I might be paying it down a little bit in my involvement, but really my skill is, is the marketing side of it, or a ton of vibe, energy, that's it. It's the creativity, it's the storytelling, it's, it's literally, your brain stands out on a shelf, and then I heard a story, and I love you to tell it for us, but about how when you were first creating all the packaging for your, for your beer, that you would design it,

24:17go down to the local like, bon lo, hide it somewhere, and try and see if your partner can come and find kind of there. Yeah, so everything we did, like the reason before, you guys shot in CD markets, we'll store also bought us as much as anyone else, right? So you were an expert, you're the experts, not at ANC, not bloody graphic design company, they just send their office like a married, come out, that was cool. Whenever, when the ones had run a cell this shit, so it was only me and my cameraman, he's, he's, he's been a printer, so he's, he's always had a good eye for carroties, graphics, he's, he's smart, right hand, manry, he does all sorts of stuff for me, puts up a lot of shit as well, but we were designed at beer label, and would mock it up before we went into production print, and we put it on the bottle, and on a box, so we were designing the box, carbon bolts, making my car pop up, I'd go down to my local bottle store, I was sitting either guy, I'm going, he said, I'd say, you cool, do you mind if I just use just chill it for a minute? Yeah,

25:20I'd go in there, I'd take this box in there, smash it in the shelf somewhere, walk out, then I'd tell my mate, or someone else, a friend, or like you guys, hey, go in there, go in that chill, let's see if we can find where to jank a beer, they're walking, nah, I've done sit, really, he was right there, I love it, we're getting set, so we'd go back, we're going to redesign it, put it back in there, can you go in, and cost us nothing, this, this has cost us five bucks, and a bit of time, then you'd go, I saw it, it's the first thing I saw, I'll, you've nailed it, you may have focused groups on how much shit an A and C or a mate would go through to get to that stage, even to the end, that stage, even to get to the, the two or three versions that they're going to put on the chiller, which I've already probably the wrong versions anyway, they should have done first version, that's all you got to do, if they can pick it up, we've skipped how many hundred staff from, you know, marketing to merchandises to people that have to go to the store from the brewery, you walked in, you saw our box straight away,

26:23that's the work of 10 people. Yeah, that's the market research. I know, we've got no money, so that's what we had to do, so that's hence the marketing, the visual, that's why it's so visual, the boxes and the chips are so visual, because with your like, or you don't like it, you can't miss it, you know, and that was, that was key, so that's the total true, sorry, and I would do that again every time. Yeah. How much are you going to save? Honestly, well, about a thousand, you know, you can't even put a number on that, and you could do it. I'm going, it doesn't have to be just when you launch something, you go, shit, we're going to do a new skill, you know, you just keep doing that, keep putting it in the real world, don't go to a focus group, a focus group, I'd definition as false anyway, that they already go in there going, I have to have an opinion on something, they don't, the real world opinion is only up the cash register. That's the only opinion that's selling well, I'd say they don't have to explain it, if it's selling it, selling it, selling your photo trip has to be the real world, yeah, has their real world,

27:24and not in a sort of a fake way, like a bogegrip, it has to be take your box and the all-know local who will let you put it, supermarket, I'm going to start a new coffee brand, okay, cool, I've got my bags, it costs you nothing that has to mark up a thing, you know, great, can I put this here and just take some photos, at least or do some, so you can launch something purely on AI before you made the damn thing, and on the fact that shit, I love it, you guys, you got a great brand, so cool, so funny, great, great, great, great, when's this coming out, shit, now we've got to launch it, I'd rather do it that way, have the demand, have the, then go through two years of, where's the gaps in the market, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're coming here at a 350, instead of 490, I'm like, what the hell? Yeah, you're getting a real-time feedback, there's no excuse not to get a real-time feedback, but tell you that, you've actually released, you know, the ten you've released that, you know, iced, oed, oed latte coffee, brew,

28:26to camera please, which I'm about to try, and that's what I mean to be in the beginning, what was the idea for you? That's great, not what I mean though, but these guys obviously exist, it's great, but there's no reason, I mean they did, they could have launched easily six months before they even got a can, and already there's a demand there for that product, you know, why wouldn't you? I would take the risk right, you said, before how much money did you have to put in, if I launched that already in a can, you could AI something, but I could actually get real cans made and some real products, I have my friends drinking it, and make out it's out there, shit, it's cost you nothing. Yeah, I think the main mistake way there is, again, just like be wanting too much planning, like literally just go out there, get it out there. Yeah, totally, I mean, I was really conscious driving out because I was thinking about it, not to come across as this

29:28shoot down, every business idea, and just go for it, no planning, you just do it because that's, but I do that too, I don't plan. Well, that's good, because that's a skill, right? It doesn't mean it has to work or not work, but so many people plan, but don't do, and if you can only do one, I'd rather do the not plan and do, then plan and do. The other one is plan however, never launched, and you go, hey, how's your think? I'm launching, I'm still talking to what's the name, I'm getting some research from Canada, it's come back and we'll work out of there, who's that up? I'm putting one on the shelf, I'll see if people want it, you know? I think I'm like that, I think I'm a planner, and I think, you know, it's so inspiring to see people that are just do it, and they're overthinking things, and I think things just happen really quickly. I mean, even you were saying, um, used to get your beer bottles and to take them to barbecues, you know, and put them in the chalier, and see if they were still there at the end of the night, you'd be like, okay, we need to redo the products, do you? Good, good, you can leave us, the beer was freaking shit, because I just remember, you know,

30:29you go to barbecues, as you said, and you, everyone puts their beers in, this is back in the lab, and there's a lot of craft beers around, so there's a lot of other people's, have us beers there as well. And at the end of the night, you know, I'm going to shit, not much of anything else, but there's still eight of ours in there, so it's been the last go-to for some reason. Shit, you know, I don't need a marketing or a focus group or anything to tell me, that is a focus group, right? That chilebin, that sad looking chilebin with their melted ice, and fired beers with the labels peeling off, which are ours, that's the only focus group I need, we've got to change it, and we did, next barbecue, and next barbecue, and there's only four now, and then there's only two, and then they're, they're worth, they've all gone, God, what else, what other research do you need? But a marketing company, we're in had angsty, so much like they don't socialize with something, or they're not, they're so moody, that, well, why don't you do it in the real world? Why do you have to, why do you have to have a boardroom meet you on a Friday and

31:30bring all the beers in and go, ooh, we're doing, have strips, all this is good, and so in-house, and so, up the right-ass, and after that they'll go after parties. Yeah, you know, I mean, so why don't you take it to the party, the real world, you know? That is the Lee Hart school of marketing right there. Yeah, be real, you know, because in the end of the day, you can bullshit as much as like, but it's the till at the model store or the till at the supermarket, which is going to dictate that's your favorite street, whether it's worth it, and you can get there pretty quick. So you told a lot about gut instinct, and now further down the business, as you've established a bit more, do you think that you still go, most of gut instinct, or do you listen to the somebody that jotted out? I'm still very gut instinct, being older, I'm a little bit more gung shy, I'm not as hungry as I was 20 years ago to, you know, almost to prove a point. I thought it was to prove a point, I thought it was, maybe make money if it did, but it's actually

32:33a little bit more of an ego-friendly, fake, fake, you aren't going to show you. There's a name in the book, I would say that would be a cute, I'll show you, but I don't hope that other younger people like yourselves wouldn't, you wouldn't be there yet. We've always said you, though, like once it's set up, it's sort of set up, like we don't, we set up a business because we don't like you looking for a bit too early. So maybe you're in that phase. Yeah, I think so. And if the flares aren't over now, then, but the big picture side of it, I'm still hungry to almost start another brand, you know, and to feel that feeling I had again when I did, and right away, where it works or doesn't work, to get that energy, to get energized, you know, I feel a little bit corporatized, I suppose, by my own, but the success of it, you can't help but be slightly dulled, you know, on the edges with it, and sometimes

33:36you need to start a new band, you know what I mean, and get back into what you're on and the first place, you know, you're much better. It's like a relationship and the start, it's fun, it's exciting. Yeah, but it's not a silly bad thing that I'm going to get bored. It becomes repetitive. You're like, I've been doing this for a few years. It's working. Yeah, I'm a bad thing. I'll tell you. What space do you feel like you're more and now, like business or media? The weirdest thing is that it's always been so overlaid. Like, as I said, the reason I got into the products was from a media thing being unappreciated or on offseason in the way. Even I've done with the products, and the other thing I've brought to it really has been the media anyway, and I've just always been there with the products anyway. So it's not like I've given one up for the other, they've actually gone hand in hand. The only thing I've really brought to these products is the social media and the visual aspect. We went to Mexico recently to film some crap

34:39for these corn chips. We just read a queen run that video. And we had a, we had a myriachee band. It's really cool. It's a music video. And it's exciting. So that's purely for an FMCG situation for the business. But on the other hand, it was purely a fashion project of Megan and Demexco with a kind of men like I used to chamber in the world in the treble shows and shit. And that's exactly what I felt like. We were filming again. We were filming shit and it re-notting me to come back here and that's it. I mean, the treble show is pretty easy. You've got a Chengie ecosystem happening. You've got like the media, the characters, and that lead into the brand, and to the snacks. It's here else one. Ecosis. I'm Kobe. And now I'm also the never, never been in social media because it used to be like, you have a TV show. That's on TV and Z from line till 10 on a juicer night. That's done. Now everything's on social media anyway. You know, if you haven't seen it, well, it was probably wasn't on social media. So yeah, it just reminded me that when you're traveling with someone with

35:39a, I love traveling. I was the, I was head of camera, but now we could just really good scene here instead of having a, I don't relax on the whole act. I think we could do quite a funny scene. That's I'm constantly thinking that. You know, like you just said you're going to on the whole, and you knew that you don't switch off because it just feel like woe to you. Nah. And people, you know, and say, what are your hobbies? They say, because a lot of my friends all paying golf, and I actually really Christian myself, I hate golf, but I play with them just to hang out. And other stuff I hate. And I was like, do I actually have any hobbies? I sort of asked myself this question quite often. Then I said something, you know, I'm most happy when I'm filming something or editing something or watching something back and going, I don't like make it there or funny. And that is, it's a weird thing. Self-indulgent thing to say, but you know, I even watched a series, and I've done a few years ago, last night on TV in bed, because my father said he watched him, you know, I know I wanted to check on something. And they're watching three or four of the whole episodes. And yeah, I really enjoyed it. I was been, damn, I'm good. Yeah, I've removed my, I managed to remove myself from it and actually watch it after, you know,

36:43what series was this? It was called Heartland. We went to Texas and Memphis. It was like a sort of travel show. We went to Greece and Texas and all this stuff. And it was actually quite funny. There's things that changed, but I was watching whole scenes gone and I didn't know I was going to come in up actually. I was like, oh shit, I was thinking what I would normally do here. Oh shit, that was surprising. I didn't think that. And it was quite weird to watch yourself like that, removed. And then totally nine E goes for the sense. And maybe think, yeah, now that's really what you better at. We should just do more of that because you wouldn't be doing any other stuff if you hadn't done all that crap. You know, you're on, you know. Yeah, I think you're new, silly, need hobbies. Like if I'm like, what do I like your most bedtime? I like to work in my spare time. It's not you. Well, it's not work. Yeah, if you enjoy it, sorry, I mean, it is very hard work when you're trying to make a filming all that sort of stuff. But the fruits of it, when you're mostly at it starting, you watching, you're enjoying that, is it really, you know, okay, let me tell us about the corn chips. The corn chips. I was actually actually corn chips,

37:47of course, the semi authentic, they're some corn chips. We call them semi authentic because there's no sex fingers and not pentadess. And there I was seeing off from Mexico that they they taste damn good. There's three flavors. We've got mix texts. We've got Chipotle salsa with a hint of tango and jive. And also we've got mature cheese, which is big cheese. They're fantastic. They're not from Mexico, but we knew we said there were. Okay, we want to go to a little bit of a quick five or two. Yeah, go. Take a sweat. If you had to choose between owning the sentry product with no audience or owning the lea hard audience of no product, which one would you take? Lea hard audience, I think. It's a logical answer, isn't it? Okay, what is the worst was the decision you ever made? I can't be honest with you. I've made it now in very unorthodox decision, which was very good. This is quick fine. I'd go like go into it. Give us a hit. Well, I don't know. I don't have any ownership of the beer anymore. Okay. I was in the partnership with

38:51the brewery. And then I said, I'd up the chips, long story short, they felt they were half owners of the chips. I was having a wish. I went there was a real could have been a real disaster. Legal and could all sorts of stuff. I decided I woke up one night and tried every business cure in the land couldn't solve this kind of dream without going big legal on it. I'm like at one when I said, okay, what do you think you're half owner of the chips? I'm half owner of the beer. You guys take the beer 100% I'll take the chips 100% I'll say that night, basically the night. I gave away the whole brand well not to fall out of the money and not to have that argument in the realms of the media or in goodwards with stuff both potential brands. So it's the smartest thing I've ever did. Most counter intuitive thing I've ever did because you start something. It's your baby. If I was 35, if I was two years younger, you wouldn't have done

39:58that. It would have been so close to it you'd been so pale. I'm going to get you would have tried to win the argument. I could step back enough and go, you did the numbers and said, you do that and it's basically it did. So that was the best decision. So you asked what's the worst business thing I just give you the best which felt at the time totally counter intuitive. Well that was the best thing. That would be very difficult. I choose between your children. It was at the same time I could. There was an exit strategy with the chips. It wasn't with the beer while I was still involved. It was only a go this far. Nothing was going to change. So I could work out the numbers and that gave me freedom to make my choices with the chips and expand or do what I had to do. But if they were still attached to it, I wouldn't be in it. That was a wise decision.

40:58It was the smartest thing. I think we've got a full circle on this. It's a decision that no people who had poor business school or marketing or that sort of stuff or more traditional sense of business would ever have taken. They wouldn't have ever pulled themselves far back enough to make an decision. They would have gone no way. We've got the right on this. There's a case two years ago. They would have got totally involved in the mechanics of it or the business side of it or the numbers because that's their job. They've been university to do that. Now my job was to what's I can best my family, what's best for me, what's best to grow this in the future. And giving it some distance and perspective. As I said, there's a lot of smart advice to me, that I saw you see. And they ate and saw it. They were doing good news to that. And said, and they got the stage, no, I wouldn't be in my night and wake up and explore me and if any. I think it's a key theme of this episode. It's just following your gut. Yeah. And look, and sometimes it can be wrong on that case. It wasn't. But if it is wrong,

42:00there's very few chances that it's going to be that wrong. That it's really going to mess you up badly as opposed to not following your gut. Because if you go, you never know anyway. You're just doing like someone else tells you. You're paid more than me. Sorry, you know better than me. Do you? You know what I mean? Only you can solve your own jet. All right. If you had a hundred thousand dollars to start, but not today, not today, not media, where would you go? Probably this. You can't go to boot. Okay. So no chips, no media would be okay. That's a good question because for me, it would have to be a tangible product. What would be a little gen shorts? Gen shorts. I bought them sold. He was sold your first cat. Okay. So you briefly touched on the exosstrategy for Sanjay. Would you sell tomorrow for the right number? Of course. I think you have to. You have to go into it with that in mind. It's where you are in life as well. What you'd sell for when you're 25 would be different than

43:04what you'd sell for when you're 55. It's the case. You want to have some control over the tone and once it's gone, you don't want to. It's not like you can just sell a house and jump into it and walk away from it. It's still your thing. It's your baby. You'd go to a house. You still get a drive pass from your day. You know, yeah. Of course. Yeah. What is that number? 65 billion. In a way, in the New Zealand, here I've actually had kind of passed on a lot of the stuff that Grips Z is going to be ready. But I still own the Australian, the Australian market with where Australian athletes go quite well and the rest of us say Europe. So Australia is going good. I want to build that up as much as possible and then possibly Europe. So to try and sort of put you back in the game, it really is those overseas markets, which is tricky

44:04because Mark and I are over the end of the stuff. So I'm really sort of putting the brand on the line, you know, how important, you know, how strong is the brand, you know, a standalone product compared to me. And I'm pretty confident that it's all about the product and brand that's very good to do with me. You know, it's the tone. You don't have to know who I am. It helped me get meetings and beginning here at New Zealand. But other than that, I'd like to think that when people are buying a product, hopefully, hopefully. But if they don't know who the hell I am, that's a bonus. You know, so what is next fully hearted? Oh, I probably had to have the rim here too. And I mean, and, and, and come on. Perfect. No, but hopefully we have way too much money in Tings. Now, without standing to cliche and, you know, cause I'm on the book, I was back. These conversations inspire me to get back and go, shit, what is next? And start maybe acting on some other

45:10spew. I've just put out there, you know, like, just do it. You know, just pull that crap. Yeah. You know, and you've got to remind yourself sometimes, and this is, this is good by doing it, is just to do it. So yeah, look, I like to get started on another product on another brand. There's, it can be tricky sometimes for the Australian to trade certain stuff and, and all this sort of the trademarts and stuff. But if you do it the right way, of course, Ken, but it has to be something on brand that you can relate to. Like I said, you're not going to buy running shoes for me. You not going to bother my hair, but it for me. You might buy something. Your husband might buy something for me. But yeah. So yeah, no, I want a key guy. I love trying and failing. But, I guess, you know, no one, they don't remember you. Fade us. I really don't. I think you should just do a whole range of kiwi barbecue products. Yeah. I mean, that is not a bad idea. You know, I mean, connect it anyway with with how is the barbecue stuff. Like I said before, if you can reach to think from a barbecue and it can be either that, you know, with phone charger. Who knows? But it needs to resonate. And yeah, I ain't going to give it a go. And not for the reason to

46:13make money either, just because it, it feels right. You know, I'm worried about that. So I look at later, you know, as I say, don't over invest into it, but just you just go. Yeah. When I speak to people, when they about starting it was most of them, you say it's for like family legacy in general fulfillment. Yeah. You want to throw the money and see. Yeah. Yeah. I totally. You know, and you know, there's some comfort us bows for new selling and this sort of stuff. But I have to tell you, it can, it can be the root of complacency. So a shake up, maybe now and then or, you know, having to do something from scratch is the best way I think to maybe get over that as they start a new band. He challenging yourself. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not comparing myself to the Beatles. But maybe I've got a. I mean, I should like not one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so I didn't you. Yeah. Thank you so much. I find this episode has been so insightful. I feel like it's so key lessons

47:14be a joy. Listen to your guts. I want to thank. Don't ever thank and especially if you have, you know, younger than me, which most people probably are watching this, what do the hell you've got to lose? Give it a crack. The marketing side, yeah, that's going to come instinctually that, you know, that all that stuff, this can be a thousand people. They don't remember that. The part they can't bring is what I just said is the doing part of it. I don't think 10% or 80% of people actually do stuff. The rest telling you what you did wrong or how you do it better, you know, just do it. Yeah. Really, that's like all of it. That's really helpful. Now, if you've been sitting on a business idea, but you don't know where to start, you can book a call with make it happen. And thanks so much for listening. So see you guys in the next episode. Oh, thanks so much. Thank you, lady.