How I “Failed” at OnlyFans

0:00The internet offers this promise of opportunity, of making your own way and making your own money. After all, you can reach anyone, everyone, all at once. If only you can get and keep their attention. Because before you can get anyone's money, you have to cut through and find ways to get the scrollers to click or stop on what you're offering. Only fans is one place on the internet where these transactions are the most straightforward. Sendo for money, get photos and videos, or even an interaction that you're desiring. And with only fans, it's usually sex that sells. A few months back, I interviewed the author Rufi Thorpe about her novel Margot's Got Money Troubles, which is about a struggling single mother who figures out how to ride the algorithms to only fans' success. That does not always happen, though, as we heard recently from a listener.

1:03I've been a big fan of the podcast for a few years now, and I'm not sure how you select people to interview, but I think I have an interesting story which would make for a good episode. I started in only fans when I was 22, hoping to make life-changing amount of money. Instead, I made only $116,000 over four years before taxes. I failed. More than failed because now I owe the IRS several thousand dollars in taxes I failed to save for. So this week's episode is about the challenges of making money on the internet. And speaking of fragile revenue streams from digital media, I want to remind you that this month that Death Sex and Money, we have a special offer for those of you who have considered supporting our show. And you hear me ask about joining up with Death Sex and Money Plus. And this month is the time to do it if you've not done it yet because membership is 50% off. $59 for a whole year.

2:03You've got to go to slate.com slash DSM Plus and use the promo code DSM50. That gets you a full year of Death Sex and Money Plus. You get extra episodes and ad-free listening to all of our episodes and all the episodes that Slate makes. And also get access to articles on Slate.com. And I will tell you once you've experienced no ads, no paywalls, you won't want to go back. Again, go to slate.com slash DSM Plus and use the promo code DSM50 to join in. And one of the things I want you to consider, as you think about this, the conversations that you would have missed if we, Death Sex and Money were not around. We are unusual in our interviews in that we are equally curious, respectful, delighted, and real. Whether we are interviewing someone who's well-known or someone who is not famous, including those who haven't yet broken through in the ways that they'd hoped for.

3:05That is the case at the moment for Anna Blake, my guest this week. She's 27 years old and lives in Florida. And right now, she has a few different ways of making money. She works as a barista. Her only fans is still active and she writes a sub-stack newsletter where she openly discusses how much she really doesn't like her only fans work. This week, we hear from Anna Blake directly about why she turned to only fans in the first place, what the work has been like for her, and why she makes it very clear through TikTok videos and her writing on sub-stack, that she'd really rather be doing something else. It was very important to me that everybody knew that I'm doing this for the money. I don't like this. There's other things I want to do, and I'm simply fighting with the resources at my disposal. This is Death Sex and Money. The show from Slate about the things we think about a lot.

4:10I need to talk about more. I'm Anna Seale. Hey, this is Adam Grant, host of Ted's podcast, rethinking with Adam Grant. This podcast is supported in part by Bill, the intelligent finance platform that helps businesses and accounting firms scale with proven results. One assumption many organizations rarely rethink how their financial operations actually get done. That's why smart leaders turn to Bill. With AI-powered automation, Bill isn't just moving money. It's reducing the manual work of invoices and expenses for nearly half a million businesses. Limit the friction and start scaling with a platform bill to evolve with you. Visit bill.com slash proven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances. Today's episode is sponsored by Nerdwallet Smart Money Podcast.

5:13If you are finding yourself craving more companionship and concrete how-tos and whys about money management, this is a show for you. A team of trusted journalists does the research so you don't have to sort through 12 conflicting opinions online. You get research backed insights and clear pros and cons whether you're planning a big purchase or just want to grow your wealth. They explain the why behind everything. From investing and home buying to smaller habits like sinking funds, the strategy to make surprise expenses stop feeling like surprises. And somehow as they do all this, it is a fun entertaining listen. Make your next financial move with competence. Follow Nerdwallet Smart Money Podcast on your favorite podcast app. So Anna Blake is the name we're using. That's not your legal name. No. And if I were to ask like what is Anna Blake's brand on the internet? Who are you?

6:14Oh, I'm trying to figure that out. I've changed it so many times. I think that's part of why I haven't made a lot of money. So I've been trying to figure it out. Right now I think the things I want to, that my brand is, is just someone talking about everything like all of the feelings, money, sex, only fans, neuroses, just confrontation. Along with her writing on Substack, Anna also has a TikTok account where she goes on passionate and funny die raids about her experiences on only fans. So you're thinking about starting a f***. Don't! You will fail! 10 OF 4, almost 5 years now, pushing 30 and very much still broke. Please listen to me. I'm a mattress actress and a part of my job is commodifying my sexuality. Let's talk about it. These days Anna earns money working 35 hours a week as a barista and her only fans brings in a little money in the background.

7:17She's trying to slowly chip away at credit card debt and a hefty tax bill that piled up over the years. You wrote that you made $116,000 over four years. So that's more than 25 grand a year, close to 30 grand a year. Was it about the same amount each for those four years? No. So now it's been five years and the number changed. I have it. It's like $132,000 now. But no, it fluctuated a lot. I was going over my taxes the other day. One year I made $12,000 the whole year. And then the next year I made $45,000. So I would have moments of making a lot and then like a lot of nothing. And all of that is before taxes. So technically that's not all mine. Could you anticipate when you were going to get a windfall? Like was it energy and money out? If you did more, would you get more money? Or was it kind of you could not predict it?

8:20Honestly, it's hard to tell. I don't know. Sometimes I'm like, yeah, you just have to be consistent. And I honestly, I really struggled with being consistent with it because I didn't like it. So I wasn't being consistent with it. Sometimes you know the stroke of like going viral, it did feel just like luck. It felt like, you know, I don't know where that came from. And viral, what does that mean when something hit? Like how did it? How did it get amplified? TikTok or Instagram. You'd have to go viral there and then you'd get a lot of subscribers on only fans. Like a lot. Up once. Really fast. What was a TikTok that hit? What were you doing? I remember the first one was really bad actually. It was one. Someone had like rated me. They said I was like a six or something. And I had been reading a lot of like feminist literature. I don't know. It made me so angry that this fool thought I cared what he had to say.

9:26And then I took a screenshot of his profile picture. He had like a vrat's nest beard braided down to his belly button. It was not attractive. And I just I put it up on my TikTok and I just kind of like shrugged to it. And it got like 100,000 views. But it was all men basically defending this other guy saying actually you're a two. Actually you're one. But it's it's ironic because that was the first time I made I made like 7,000 that month. That video of everybody calling me ugly and you know sending me threats. That's all those same people or whoever saw the video subscribe to my only fans. And I made seven thousand dollars. How do you think about that transaction? I think at first I took it really hard. I remember it was a big deal. And I was feeling this huge moral concern of like I don't want to be doing this in the first place.

10:39I don't like that they think they can speak to me this way. I just felt disgusted by the whole thing. I didn't want anything to do with it. And then I saw the money and I was like well I think I might change my life right now. I think if I'm doing to have next month it will be 7,000 again next month maybe it will be 20,000. And I thought it was a trend that would continue. But it was just that one month for that that time. So you were born in 1999. Can you describe for me what like what your relationship to internet culture was when you were growing up? Yeah I remember being like preteen teenager really wanting to go viral on Vine. That was really good. I'm like you know everybody wanted to be a youtuber. And you know I grew up with like Hannah Montana and stuff. So the idea of like fame just felt like yeah that's what I should strive for. Uh huh. That quickly changed the older I got you wouldn't think so with the work I do now. But you know I think yeah when I was younger I was also homeschooled so I spent a lot of time alone on the internet in my room and a lot of my like growth and exploration and figuring myself out definitely happened online.

11:58Uh huh by yourself. Yes. Anna grew up in Florida with her mom and dad and younger sister. Her parents divorced when she was 12 and her dad remarried a woman who had seven kids. Anna and her sister split time between their parents and when she was at her dads she had to integrate into that new big family where money was suddenly tight and all the kids were homeschooled. I basically like I was homeschooled but there was just there was no education. I think I was there was actually just left to find for myself. And I could feel even that young that panic about like wait a minute this is kind of important like what am I going to do. And I would get into arguments with my dad about like I need help here. I'm struggling. I feel like I can't. I don't have the discipline to figure this out. I can't teach myself. I don't know what's going on. And he would come home from work every day and it would just be this like long battle of like well you didn't do it.

12:59You need to do it. I can't do it and just I was just on my own. And at that time I was also so young and afraid and my step siblings. They had been doing it since an early early age. Did they kind of lead their own educations to? Yeah. So they had like Florida virtual school. So technically there is a teacher and there's lessons and stuff. But some parts was like an old book from the 80s and DVDs. I do remember my science class was these old VHS tapes of a preacher in the 80s talking about how demonic evolution was. My science class was your, was your family homeschooling because of a critique about protecting your religious beliefs at home and that that would get somehow solid in public school.

14:02Definitely my stepmom was coming from that place. My dad I think it was just like, you know, they're doing it so you need to do it. Or just it was like easier to do it that way with the custody schedule because they would also my parents when either one of them upset, I would upset them. They would just like send me back and forth to the other one. And they lived like two or three hours apart from each other. So it wasn't like a small thing. It was like, you know, I think it's unfortunate, but I think their approach to like parenthood was just at that point when they got divorced. I think they just lost interest. In what ways were you a rebellious like how would you, what were you doing that would make them get upset? I think about that a lot because it's a big part of I am open. Like yeah, I was a troubled kid and rebellious, but when I think of when I was younger, I don't think so.

15:03I think I was just a difficult kid. I had, I always had a lot of anxiety. I had OCD. I had a metaphobia, which sounds made up, but it's a fear of throwing up in a really extreme one. But all of these, I was just frightened and trying to like, I don't know. I do struggling. Yeah, I was just struggling kid and you know, it would cause conflict. And you know, I would, I would annoy my siblings or I would, you know, it would be like time to like wash the dishes and I couldn't touch the dirty dish or like stuff like that. That would kind of read as rebellious, but was really just fear. Yeah, you were having really overwhelming feelings that you didn't know how to manage. Your homeschooled all the way through, when high school was ending, did you get your GED or how did it end?

16:04So yeah, I ended up getting my GED. I did have one year where I was kind of like, I went to the high school, but just for like my electives. That was really fun. I was like 16 and that was when I finally got to experience like friendships and socializing and becoming some a person. And I would show up just for like theater classes and go, so that part was fun, but I got my GED. And then when you take back to like 18 years old, you're thinking, what am I going to do after high school? What felt like was on offer and what were your financial responsibilities? I remember feeling a lot of stress about even getting my GED. It wasn't like my other siblings. I think they got a traditional diploma because they had like they did the coursework and they passed the test and they did everything right. I really didn't do any schoolwork at all for years. And I just, I remember feeling a lot of stress on I've got to get this GED. I don't know what's next.

17:08And I wanted to go to college and I did enroll at community college. Back then I was so young and I was so, I had no idea how anything worked. And I didn't really have like a path in front of me. I remember I really just wanted to qualify for the Disney College program. What's that? It's like it's just a work program for college students, but you can like live in the dorms and you work at Disney. And so I at 18 I enrolled in college not to get a degree. I just wanted to qualify for the Disney College program, which I never ended up doing. And did either of your parents know you were not really sure what to do next? Oh, yeah. Yeah, my dad always had like the narrative of like, you don't need to go to college. You can become rich by, you know, starting a business you're doing whatever. I mean, he kind of downplayed all of my education.

18:08I think that's why I felt so stressed and confused about it. Because even like getting my GED was something I sought out myself. I had to do that and enrolling in the college as well. I see. So what you're sort of describing is you're, you have these kind of vision boards, sort of ideas of ways you could live outside of the home you grew up in and with other peers working at Disney. Like that I get. I get why that was a bad way. When did you start working for money? I was 17. So I got a job at like a local amusement like theme park. And I remember that being really difficult because that was the year that would have been my senior year of high school. And so all of my friends that year were getting ready for prom, doing all of the senior stuff and getting to, you know, experience that.

19:09And I was working full time like right off the gate 40 hours a week, scrubbing toilets, stalking shelves, and it just it felt so unfair that I was really missing out on something. And was there ever a time where you thought, oh, maybe I'll figure out how to get student loans or scholarships to go to school and figure out how to. Yes, I had a moment actually it sounds contradictory, but right before I started my only fans, I, I had like a kind of political awakening or something I started really reading and kind of developing as a person. And I decided I really wanted to go to college now to learn and I wanted that degree. And I really wanted to go to law school. And so I thought I was going to work at my retail job and then like go to college, but my living situation was so stressful and it felt so outside the bounds of reality to like make happen, which is why I ended up starting.

20:15That felt more accessible. Yeah, I thought I would make the money and then pay for college and just get out and go. When Anna says her living situation was stressful, she's talking about the fact that she live with her mom whom she didn't always get along with. And Anna's boyfriend lived there too. They'd met when Anna went to the prom with a friend and home felt crowded. Anna felt stuck. So she tried to focus on making inner progress. I just, I started reading and I kind of got away from the ideology in the world that I was given and kind of started seeing that things were kind of a little bit bigger, well a lot bigger and really just politics history foreign stuff and just was so enamored with it and just so shocked so much things started making sense to me. Do you remember what was it news articles? Was it books? What was it?

21:18It was, yeah, it was books. It was like it was actually it was Andrew Yang. He was running the first. And you know, he was offering you be I and that's not an incredible universal base income. Yeah, and that got me hooked. And then I was listening to his podcast a lot and he had this guy a non-guaradotis on who wrote winners take all it's just a book on how philanthropy is kind of scammy. And we wouldn't need philanthropy if the billionaires just paid their taxes and it just it just shifted. And then I read Naomi Klein, shocked doctrine I just and I just kept going and I couldn't stop. Were you were you I just want to be able to picture how you where you were reading these books were you going to a library and then kind of figuring out what to do next were you. I was at work and I would have headphones and like hide it behind my ear and I would listen to like an audio book like the whole shift.

22:21And I read some in the break room and yet like one book would reference the other I or podcast or reference book and I just kind of built my own syllabus that way. That's neat. I like the way you put that. When you started hearing about universal basic income and in imagining a world in which. You didn't have you know there was there was a baseline of money that would enable you not to think about God how much an hourly wage am I getting to like were you connecting it to the wage work you were doing and thinking about what your life would look like if you had some semblance of stability. Oh it was so personal to me because I had always wanted to escape my family and just live somewhere that was always what I wanted as like a basis it felt like life would not start until I got away and you be I was like done I could be on like kind of an even playing field with other people.

23:23And so that I think that's what drew me into it originally the idea the fantasy of being less dependent on your family. Oh yeah. Now most every episode you hear me say something about that sex and money plus memberships and all the perks that come with it. We do this because it's important that our listeners pitch in with their fellow listeners to help us cover our production cost. But we also have tried to make it fun and enjoyable for you to be a member. First of all no ads no reaching for that skip button while you're washing dishes or going for a walk.

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25:26Yeah including you know millions of people that have never met me and now have a strong opinion about it. And sometimes we hear from experts with very specific disciplines like a beautiful philosopher. The fall features that I track a thinness firmness smoothness in youth. So hang on firmness. And that's like a 44 year old woman. No I'm aware that is way to an ideal. And don't worry there are also bonus episodes where we talk about our personal sex lives too. I've never gotten over the fact that I can connect with men on this level. And I think that's why I'm like not on the kinky side just because it's still as exciting as it was. You're still so stoked. Yes exactly like it's been more than 20 years of this. If you join death sex and money plus right now you get access to all of these wonderful plus episodes along with our usual weekly releases.

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29:42Ready to talk with an expert? Visit bill.com slash proven to get started and grab a $150 gift card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details. This is death sex and money from slate. I'm Anna sale. Before Anna Blake started her only fans account. She worked various jobs where she made a low hourly wage. She sent her out to the college, breezed to jobs and retail at chain stores. And that kind of work was tricky for Anna. Her anxiety sometimes got in the way. And she also didn't like the lack of autonomy and all the surveillance that came with this sort of work. I actually tried to start a union. My job. Not very well. I just like wrote up a little note. I passed it out to everybody at the store. I was sitting in the break room. My boss came in. I think I almost started to cry. And I almost walked out of the store and she told me basically take two months off. Just recoup.

30:45And so I was going to do that. But it was unpaid. And so during that time, you know, my car was about to get repossessed because I knew I couldn't make that payment. And my family, like my mom wasn't someone I could go to and be like, I need a break. Can you help me here for like a second? That was not an option. This is in this is like 2021 2021. 2021 when I think about only fans in that era, it's it's when I'm at the public consciousness when everybody's figured out that only fans is a way to do sex work from home. And it's pandemicy times. The popularity of it, both for people who are using it and creating their own accounts and people who are using it as consumers is sort of exploding. Is that what it felt like? I don't know that I was conscious of that. Honestly, it was my sister had an only fans and she introduced me. I thought it was working for her.

31:45And I just remember I was working full time. And I had gone back to school again. I did that a few times of re-enrolling and dropping out. It just didn't it just didn't feel possible. I didn't see an escape. I was never going to make enough at this job to afford an apartment anywhere. And so I just felt like I had to. I just felt like this is working for her. It's real money. So I'm going to do it. What's working for her mean? What did she tell you about it? She showed me she just like a few thousand bucks in her account. That's when it first started. She showed me. But you know, when you have nothing and I had never had a couple thousand dollars in an account before it was like, yeah, I'm going to do that too. So tell me about setting up your account. What was that what was that like? I set up my account and originally I thought I was like, you know, I'm not even going to pose nude. There's going to be no nudity. I'm just going to do a few videos here and there and just like some like lingerie pictures. And that's it. I'll make the money.

32:52And what were you going to do while you were wearing lingerie? Do you just like move your body? When I first started the only videos I was doing were like custom videos so people would message me and tell me what they wanted. And I would, you know, talk to the camera and it was mostly fetish stuff. And I didn't know. I didn't know anything. Even though I had watched a lot of porn before this stuff was nothing I had ever seen. It was totally not sexual to me. It was not intuitive to me. I was just like, they want this. This is where the money comes from. I guess I'll do that and figure it out. And I would watch, I'd go back on a watch porn and I'd look at other only fans accounts and kind of see how they were talking. And I would watch videos where they were making what were they doing. And I would try to simulate that and find a niche. And eventually I landed on Dominic Tricks type of stuff.

33:55So eventually I ended up there. But originally I had no clue. I was just seeing whatever else was doing. And was your experience kind of, it sounds like you were, you were receiving messages and then making videos and sending them back out. Were you doing any live interactions with people? No. Is that for what reason? Why not? I think I was too afraid. It felt too fraudulent because to me I was just like, it didn't feel like me. I was turning on the camera, doing something, turning it off and like, it wasn't like a real thing. I didn't think I could hold up a real interaction with somebody. And when you would get different requests and were they what you expected? Were there things that surprised you that people asked you to do? Oh, yeah. I mean, all of it was surprising because it was stuff I had never considered before.

34:55Because you know, I'm not a man. I just wasn't consuming that kind of porn. It was stuff like little big person. I would pretend to be like a giant and pretend to like eat them or something. They'd be really into that. Like put your computer camera like into your mouth. Toys are mouths, your mouth is coming to eat them. Yeah. Or you know, shaming them, punishing them and insulting them, all kinds of stuff. Would they give you scripts? I think at first. And then when I got a bit more comfortable, I think I discovered I was pretty good at being a dominatrix. And I kind of had a lot of, I kind of, I say that there's a lot there. But I kind of had fun being bossy for a little bit. I did. Kind of. Yeah.

35:57Some fun and some not fun. Yeah. There's contention. Like I were always from like when I would have started doing the videos, it felt so fake. It felt so unreal and uncomfortable. And it was like, if I can just grit my teeth, it would be like five minute clips. If I can get through a five minute clip, he's going to pay me $300. That's way more than an eight hour shift. You know, just get through it. So that was definitely the core of it. And then I think I was getting really into it at some point when I started coming up with my own ideas and writing my own scripts. And that's where it kind of felt a little bit more free. And I stopped doing customs entirely because I think that felt so. You didn't like that power dynamic. No. Anna's only fans experience involved a lot of trial and error. Even though her sister had been successful in the platform, their relationship was sometimes rocky. So they weren't trading digital strategy ideas.

37:02And also didn't have relationships with any other performers on the platform. She just knew she had to attract more subscribers. So within a short time, her no nudity policy went out the window. And she started filming herself having sex with her boyfriend. Did you worry about creating like digital records of your body, your naked body that were going out over the internet, losing control of that? Honestly, I don't think so. I think I was so hyper fixated on what I could do with the money that it felt like everything else was irrelevant. I was like, if you have money, that's real. I could get a real apartment. I can do real things. Perception and how other people thought about it, it just wasn't at the forefront yet. And at first, the idea of like filming sex with my boyfriend and getting paid for it seemed just like a no-brainer.

38:04For both of you? Yeah. Yeah, I think he thought it was funny at some times. And I think I thought so too a little bit when we started. Just the idea of like, no way that we're doing this. And a little bit maybe like your gaming system, like look at what we're doing. We're going to do this anyway. And we're going to make some money now. Yeah, yeah. That's how it started. As soon as I was like, okay, we're making sex tapes now. It did like a full 180 shift for me where it felt like we need to have these sex tapes. We need to get these out. So we need to film them. And coordinating and strategizing when and how we were going to film those. All this is taking place where we were living with my mom. Okay. So how did that work?

39:05I would just find a time when she wasn't there to film. So it was just in little moments that I had. We'd hurry up and we'd film it. And I think that is what got me crazy. I went crazy when it stopped being about like, well, we're just going to have sex and film it and it started being like, we need to film. So we're going to have sex now. And it wasn't when I wanted to do it. It was the house is empty now. So we got to do it now. And that feeling, I don't, I remember I'm not being able to get past that feeling of like, well, I don't want to do it right now. But I have to. And so sex very quickly became very complicated. And I hated, hated filming sex tapes. And it was very difficult for me to get through. And once I realized how difficult that was, that's when I started shifting to like, I would make solo, fem, dom, dominatrix videos.

40:09Because that felt easier. That was more of a persona I could put on. Where's the sex was like, no, I'm you're having sex. That's you're having it. But the solo videos I could kind of finesse. I hear in your voice a little like when you were making the videos of sexual acts like that when you were in the, when you were doing it, it felt like it's not something you wanted to do. And among the people coercing you into doing it was you when you were thinking about the business of the videos. So you were creating the conditions where you were making yourself putting yourself in that situation. And so I can imagine the mix of feelings of dread and frustration. Dread for sure. Yeah. You're mad at your boss and your boss is you. Not to mention that this is your partner and this is your intimacy and it becomes now something you have to rush to do.

41:09Yeah. When your mom's away, she had no idea that you were filming these things in her house. Oh, she knew. I've never been one to hide anything. And I, it was just, you know, this is what I'm doing. And I think it was, my idea was I'm doing this, but it's going to be really quick when I make the money and I'm going to leave. So who cares? Uh-huh. It just didn't work out that way. Did she approve? No, she didn't. You know, she would say like that's dirty. That's bad. You know, but I, I never have looked at her as like. I don't really look to her as a source of approval. And authority. Yeah. But I really like, I think there are like 10 of those videos. There wasn't a lot because I really, I shifted to making solo fetish videos because of how uncomfortable it made me to make those sex tapes.

42:11Did your boyfriend feel like he was being cut for my movie or something when you decided you didn't want to make videos with him anymore? No, I don't think so. I think he found it stressful too because I would get very emotional. And it was all about like, you know, we have to get the lighting right. We have to get the angle right. And I mean, the sex on the videos would be us having sex, but like the pauses would be me like having to go like, and kind of like breathe in the corner and then like pull it together and try and make it seem like I was enjoying it. It definitely was not pleasure. That sounds really tough. Yeah. Anna and that boyfriend eventually broke up and her online presence got more real. This is when she started leaning more into making videos about how she doesn't really like being an only fan's performer. She vented about her breakup and she got more transparent about her financial struggles.

43:16I'm interested that as you're doing this, as you're making money on only fans, you're also critiquing only fans and you're writing elsewhere on the internet. Like you weren't pretending everywhere that you liked this. You were talking about how miserable parts of it made you. I could not get past the performance of having pretending to be excited. One of the things that drove me crazy, I got a message from someone that was like, if I eat dog food and like punish myself and eat dog food, will you send me a free video? Like I cared. Like I actually wanted to see him like punish and I got a sexual thrill from it. And it stuff like that and raged me of like, you know what? I don't care if you eat dog food. What are you talking about? I'm doing this to make money. This is a performance. I'm doing what you want. And that would drive me crazy.

44:17And I started off on Reddit. I wrote this angry letter about, you know, you don't expect actors to actually be their characters. They're performing. We all know it. You still go to the movies. That's what we're doing here. I don't, I'm not into this. I'm just trying to get my money and go. And then I shifted to TikTok and talking about it. And the first one I did, I was so frustrated. And it was when I was crying. I was genuinely upset. Because I remember it was a day where the house was empty. And it was my moment to like, you have to film. This is it. You know, your mom's going to, mom's going to be back soon. I have to film. And I done my hair and I done my makeup. And I sat down to record. And I felt so repulsed. I just feel like I don't want to do this. Now is not the right time. It feels nasty to me.

45:18I can't perform. I'm feeling emotional. I'm thinking about something else. But it was like too bad. You have to do it now. And that feeling. I just turned on, you know, the camera. And I said exactly that. I have an only friends. And surprise, surprise. I can't film today. I don't have the luxury of filming when I want to. How I want to. Right now, I need money. Now. And I have to film now. Even when things are like not right conditions for filming. I can't do it. I had done so much of the pretending to enjoy it. And just feeling, I don't know, compulsive to say something. Mm-hmm. I mean, do you... It's possible that there's plenty of only fans' workers who do find ways to find pleasure and joy out of their work. Do you think that that's always fake?

46:19No. For me, that is where things, I think that's where it gets really complicated. Because I have definitely had an evolution of such intense feelings of, like, disgust in rage. I mean, fury, all-consuming fury. Uh-huh. With, this is bullshit. This feels unfair. It's not real. I don't like it. I wish I could do something else. And everyone pretending to enjoy it. Like, is lying. Or, they're coming from a privileged position. Where, to them, it is just fun. It's just a fun pleasure project. They just so happen to get paid for. They don't need it for me. Yeah. But I needed the money. I was trying to survive. So, I just had a totally different experience than that. Than that one of an empowered choice.

47:20Like, a liberated political stance of, I can do whatever I want. I have money. I have resources. I can go to college. Maybe I have a degree. But I'm a really fun, horny, liberated woman doing sex work. That really bothered me. Not because I thought sex work was bad. I was doing it. And I have a pretty strong moral compass. If I thought something like sex work was really bad, I wouldn't do it. I just, to me, it was always clear it was a means to an end. I just needed the money. But yeah, I would feel upset, really upset about the kind of, the women who I'd seen you had, kind of like a bigger platform, where people who didn't have only fans, other girls and stuff would follow them and they'd be kind of enamored by the, this is so empowering. This is so sexually liberating. I was like, why is nobody talking about money?

48:21Why not? To me, it was always so obvious. Before it's a political choice, before it's a sexually thrilling choice, before it's about liberation, whatever, it's about money. And there's those who might do it and those that have to do it. Do you still feel that way when you look at somebody who you judge or believe they could make money other ways and they're doing this for thrills and getting attention for it? Do you still feel, does it feel a little bit like a millionaire wearing a like car heart jacket or something? I don't think so. Even back then, I don't think I was feeling upset. Why are you doing this if you don't have to do this? I don't think it was that. I think it was more, it's bigger than that. Whenever you talk, but only fans, people always say like the big concern is you don't want to glamorize it. You don't want young girls to think that it's something that they should do.

49:24And some of these people's response would be like, and they would be so sincere. I remember this one girl saying like, yeah, this is a really tough job. It's really blah, blah, blah. And if you don't want to do it, you just shouldn't do it. I was floored because I was like, that's not what's happening. It's girls and women who don't have money who are trying to get it. They're not thinking about what they want and don't want to do. They don't have choices. That's what you're saying. It's bigger than that. Why are you not talking about the money? Have you found that conversation? Um, a little bit. I will say I think I've personally had an evolution, but outside of me, I think the only fans conversation has shifted a lot where I think money is a little bit more at the forefront. When you say your own evolution, what do you mean? What are you saying that you've changed your perspective on?

50:25So it was definitely just the forefront of it was rage at like the class stuff, that the class stuff was missing and I felt left out. But as I've progressed, I do think there was definitely, it'd be hard for there not to be an internalized misogyny and like a resentment personally for me there of feeling like, um, well I'm only doing this because I have to. So does that make me better than you? Maybe. I am contemplating on like whether or not sex is sacred or not and there's a conflict for me. This is easy for you. Am I better than you? I don't know. Coming up Anna feels something that she previously hadn't very often as a performer. Pleasure. My experience with only fans for however many years was this is not a pleasure project that I just so happen to get paid for.

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54:41Where you two were together? Yeah. And so I was relying on my solo videos. But I did feel like I need to replace it. And at first I was really panicked and I was freaked out because having to find a new partner and film new videos I was not looking forward to it. But I eventually did find a new partner and we filmed new videos together. And it was the first time that I genuinely enjoyed the videos. And it's funny because my experience with only fans for however many years was this is not a pleasure project that I just so happened to get paid for. I'm just trying to get my money. But these videos were an aberration from that because suddenly it was a pleasure project. I was just so happy to get paid for. I enjoyed it. What was different?

55:41I feel why did it become a pleasure project? What were different about the conditions? So who were you with? Yes. On camera? Anything else? Yeah. So at this point in time I had made a pretty big chunk of money. I think I had 10,000 sitting in a bank account. And I think that security and that control over my working conditions where I was able... I could feel that made the experience of filming videos with a new partner. Like maybe I felt like I had more control over my working conditions or how I would do it when I would do it, who I would do it with. Yeah, so I think I was freed up to actually... it was erotic. It was thrilling for me. Was it a romantic relationship and an only fans performance relationship? No. And I only the only fans. Yeah, it was only the only fans. And I think that's a part of what made it interesting is...

56:41In all my other videos, it was so tied to real life. It was my real relationship and my real bedroom and my real places. For these videos I'd go to his place. And I would only go there to film those videos. So I could like kind of compartmentalize this is where I'm going to do that. When was the last time you made a video? Yeah, that was almost almost a year ago. It was probably last September. So you still have your account but you're not generating business? Yeah, I think I have like 800 and they're right now like $800. So it is kind of self-sustaining and every now and then I'll post a TikTok and... Like last month I made $2,000 and like a day doing it just... I just posted like a TikTok went viral and then I got a bunch of subscribers. And then you know they buy some of my old videos, some of them stick around for the next month.

57:41What was the video, the TikTok video? That was a video on how I failed at only fans. I mean it is grabby. It's grabby and then it made you too grand. And it's kind of amazing. I failed at only fans and now I have two grand I didn't have before. The biggest one was last year. I made a video and I was kind of like sniffly. I was kind of like crying and I captioned it. I started in only fans but I never made any money and now I can't go to law school. That was like the caption. And you know the men couldn't help themselves. Yeah that's because you're ugly. Obviously that's why you don't have a lot of money. And now you can't go to law school. Ha ha ha, that's what you get. Like stuff like that. And that day that is the most money I've ever made. Unonly fans. That month I made $11,000 and a lot of it was like in an hour.

58:46Wow. And it was mostly it wasn't men saying I want to help you go to law school here. No. The tone was degrading. Oh yeah. And this is what you get. And you were like fake sniffling when you made it? No I was actually crying that day. You were real crying. That day was crazy. I was clocked and I was a breeze to that day. I was clocked into my shift. And I was checking my phone was pinging, pinging, pinging. And it was like my heart was pounding. I was like this again. It was like this is it. The pinks were only fan subscribers or tick tock commenters. Are you getting notified about both? Both yeah. I was seeing all of it. And the numbers were going up. And I was working as a breeze. And I was like I'm about quit. And you're making people's drinks and then like taking little little looks. Yeah. And that money came right right when I needed it.

59:46That was the year when I made 12,000. So there was like nothing. And that day I was crying about my breakup. But then I just had the footage of me crying. And I was like well, my is will use that as well. So the kind of multi purpose. So it was real crying. But I wasn't really crying. True their what they said right now. And then we got there. I laughed. And I was people who were busy, this information wasо big time I was lucky because I was at five and 17. Visitor always always resting under the rain. They carried the feet or they kept his hands here. Never wasted good cry when there's content that week. That's so interesting. Yeah. that you do feel personally responsible for, like what you chose to do with the money you had. Like how do you tell your story to yourself?

1:00:48Yeah. I'm internally battling a lot of shame. I think it's there. Why haven't I been able to get this together? Everyone else seems to be doing it. And then on the other hand, I have a very strong defensive urge to like, no, no, no, this makes sense. I, the story I tell myself is that I didn't have a lot of choices. Like I didn't have a path laid out in front of me. And I was dealt these cards and I've been scrambling around without a mentor, without a real strong guide to help me figure it out. And I feel like I've been given in like the position of kind of like eat dirt and figure it out. And so like, why would anybody be shocked that I haven't progressed? I haven't had that much help. I haven't had a lot of other paths.

1:01:51So I have a story of like him. This is what happens when you deprive someone of an education of a community of guidance and support and resources. And then the other part, and I think that's where the shame comes from, is how difficult things are for me personally. Like all the way back to my first job when I was 17, that amusement park, I would lock myself in the bathroom and cry because it felt so unfair and unjust. Or I'd have days where I was really anxious and I would call out of work and I would just sit in bed. And I remember my boss would be at like, she thought that I was like ditching work to go hang out with my friends. I was sitting in bed just like drowning in anxiety. And so I feel like I'm not able to do what other people are doing

1:02:55in some ways. And so only fans has been like, well this is what you'll do then. Like if you can't just work a normal job, like everybody else, you're too angry to do it, you're too anxious, whatever it is, you need to figure out a way to like make up for that. And so that's what only fans was. Yeah. Talking to you, there's something that feels, I feel like really excited that you have the language available for yourself to articulate all this. Like it's exciting to me. I think that's maybe that's come from like dedicating the time to write and to say more about what your experience has been and what you make of all of it. To me, only fans was always a way to enable me to do what I actually wanted.

1:03:56As far as like earning an income right now, I'm okay with only fans kind of still floating around out there while I pursue this writing thing. I'd like to go back to school at some point that would feel really good for me. How come? I think the lack of education is something that feels upsetting to me that I feel like I was denied it and I want, I have the right to go and I want to and so I should be able to. And the only reason, like the only thing that separates me from a young 23 year old or whatever in law school is like the opportunity. I didn't, I didn't have the chance. I'm as smart as them. I'm as interested in as they are. Like I could be there. It just didn't work out that way. And so there's something I still have rage in there that's like I don't care how it happens.

1:04:57I want to go and so I just got to because I will not be denied. I will not. That's Anna Blake. You can read her writing on her sub-stack newsletter. It's called Nothing Serious. There's a link to it in our show notes. This episode was produced by Cameron Drew's The Rest of the Death Sex and Money Show team includes Zoe Azule and Andrew Dunn. Daisy Rosario is our senior supervising producer Miele Bell's executive producer of Slate Podcasts and Hillary Fry is Slate's editor and chief. If you enjoyed this episode and want to be a part of helping us make more shows like it, please join in support our membership program Death Sex and Money Plus. Again right now, memberships are on sale. Go to Slate.com slash DSM Plus and use promo code DSM50 to get 50% off the usual price. A full year of Death Sex and Money Plus.

1:05:58For $59 you get those bonus episodes and ad free listening. Against Slate.com slash DSM Plus and use the promo code DSM50 to get the discount. Our theme music is by the Reverend John DeLore and Steve Lewis. If you are new to our show Welcome We're Glad you're here. You can find us on Instagram too at Death Sex Money. I write a weekly substack and you can subscribe to that at anacale.substack.com and you can reach us anytime at the show with voice memos, story ideas, questions, critiques. Our email address is deathsexmoneyatslate.com And we do check that inbox a lot. After all, this episode would not exist without that first email from Anna Blake. When you think about a writing career, do you envision using the name Anna Blake? I would love to use my real name. It just for the I think it sounds better. My real name sounds a lot better. But I really I don't want to.

1:06:59Just for like safety reasons I'm really trying to keep that away. I do think there's something to Anna in a first syllable last name. I just heard you have to it. It just sound good. I'm Anna Sale and this is Death Sex and Money from Slate. This episode is sponsored by Hagen. Hagen turns a script, photo or presentation into a polished video of you. In minutes, no camera or crew required. It's how real estate agents, financial advisors, attorneys and creators show up consistently on every feed and build a brand that brings in clients without spending their whole week making content. Rated the number one AI video platform for small businesses on G2 with the most realistic AI avatars in the industry. Trusted by a community of over 30 million people and 85% of the Fortune 100 and built to work in over 175 languages. So you can reach your audience in theirs.

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