H4 N2K, Mike Sando

0:00Blue Springs in Kansas City, buying your next car motorcycle does not need to take all day. Start at Jeremy Franklin dot com. Shop inventory and come in ready. We've had customers get in and out in 10 minutes. Jeremy Franklin dot com. We'll always be another satisfied customer. Fourth quarter of the program begins right now. As we finish strong here on a Thursday, bringing it home. Mike Sando will be here talking some NFL football. We get into the chiefs. Get into. What is offensive pass interference? Get into a couple of trades used to be used to be what what is what is a catch now? It's what is DPI? What is you tell me what is DPS? What is offensive pass interference? Apparently it doesn't exist. Is that what we're saying here? Is that the conclusion I should be reaching it exists? When the team you want to win runs of contested. You know, 20 yard square out for a big first down.

1:00You see a fly. You're like, oh, that's going to be against. Oh, what now? That's when OP I ends. It only exists when your team has the ball. It does. It does. It does always feel like that, doesn't it? I mean, it does always feel like that. All right. Let's get to the Kansas City Chiefs and what they had to say today at the podium. Coordinator day. We start with Steve Spagnolo talking about third downs versus the dolphins. They had a hard time. A number of times get the dolphins out the field. Spagnolo took us through those third downplays. The third and eight team was a penalty got converted. And listen, I could have had no one a better defense, not had them up there pressed. But we talk a lot about those third and extra longs. And be careful where your hands go. Because all of a sudden the five down penalty is a first down. And that's not good. You know, there was a third and nine. They ran a trap. These all go into. I'm sure you're looking at numbers, right? You look at third down percentage and it looks crappy. But I kind of dissect the whole thing. I mean, that's a run play. And then I did think they had. There was one third and ten in it that they had a really good design route concept

2:03that beat what we had out there. So I'm going to give them that. But all of a sudden you take three out of there and it's a whole different ball game. What was good was when we were able to stop them and get it to fourth down. We had the fourth, the three, fourth down, structural key. They were key. Yeah. And we've said it. I mean, that counts. That gets them off the field. You'd like it to not get the fourth down. Right. You know, if you make it third and so long that they're not going to try it on fourth down. But I also think the dolphins knew they needed a gamble if they were going to come away with the win. Yeah. So they were probably a little bit more willing to roll the dice and try to make it happen. They were behind almost the entire day and they were outgunned. Yeah. So look, they gave up ten points at the end of the day. Come out and have a good performance against the Raiders. And we'll say this is a good defense. They gave up 30 to a cold team that, you know, was early in the season and they had nothing to lose. But you will have handled the Broncos and Raiders. Two teams with excellent records. One of them on the road.

3:03And you will have not had, you know, everything go your way against it or go the way you wanted it to or not have accomplished everything you wanted to against the dolphins. But you allowed ten points in that game. Yeah. You know, like that's what it's about. So this, you know, we're going to know a lot more about the Chief's defense after this game. It's my new, we'll learn a lot more. We'll learn a lot more. Yeah. It's my new, my new cliche that I want to avoid. I think we'll learn a lot more about this. You think we'll learn more with each game that they play? Can I hope so? Way to go, Cluzo. You got to the bottom of something there. All right. More from Steve Spagnolo. This is about the pass rush, equalling turnovers. Spagnolo talked about his pass rush and the turnovers. I think we'd all like to see it better on first and second down. That's where some of those plays got long. We got to do better on the back end with those explosive passes. But when the down gets extended, you know, guys have a tendency to get open at some point.

4:07So first and second down is one thing that we looked at. I was happy that we got our hands up and knocks and balls down. That play Chris made with George again was really important. I thought we could have had five turnovers. I thought we had like three missed opportunities. You know, we got to get those. You know, then I think everybody feels a little bit different. You know, one I remember right down the middle of field, the Louis Gilman header. Just right there, blink off the hands. You can't drop that one. No, listen, they're there. They're playing good football. They're what? Third and points allowed. Is that right? I think that's right in it. Yeah, I'll check real fast. Yeah. Let's see. You got it. Here it is. Points allowed. There's second. Oh, that's offense. Hold on. I think I'm seeing fifth. Fifth. Oh, no, no, that's the big. That's a big. That's point differential. You know, slow internet.

5:07Don't help. Yeah, it does not help. I nailed it. Third. Bite it. Boom. Time with the Seahawks. Third. 16.7 points per game. The Vikings at 13.7 and the Jags at 12. Are the two teams that are in front of them. So they're having their moments. Yeah. It is back to back games with no sacks, Chris Jones and Sack Nation. Have not gotten to the last couple of times. Here is me asking Chris Jones about no sacks. Chris, I know the goal is to win. I've seen guys points. You have 10 points. That's a great showing in the NFL. I know how much you like getting to the quarterback. I knew he was coming with it. I knew it. I knew it was coming. I was like a backhand that compliment right there. That's right. Set job. I mean, we're close. We're close statistically wise. I mean, you look at the numbers. So quarterbacks being in red at a ball. 2.3 seconds. I don't care how good of a pass ratio. You are. When they throw the ball that quick, I mean, it's tough for anyone. So, and when they do throw it at long distances,

6:08it's more so boom protection, which you got seven, eight men in a protecting. So it's like the opportunity is going to come. I think don't waver from what we've been doing. We've done a lot of good. We put a lot of good on film. I think we stay committed to that. And just find ways to get sacks out of it. So y'all can stop writing about us in the media. Chris West. He's aware of it. Oh, man. If he's talking about that, he's aware what the criticism is. And I think they'd like to end it. I think that's at least a good mindset. Yeah. We'll see if they can cut cousins as a stationary target. They're talking about how quick they're getting the ball out. So cover a little more Andy reads that after the game. We're going to get some coverage things going. So I think there's some elements of that. So hopefully they get it all corrected. And we see a big performance from the defense against the Raiders. Short yardage Eric Bienamy. It's talking about it. Kenneth Walker stuffed a couple of times this past week. We know stuff three times on goal to go from the one the week before against the cold. I asked Bienamy about, you know, what is the little knack?

7:11Is there a nuance? I'm going to tell you what the question is. The answer's not going to really pertain to this. I'm going to tell you my question was, hey, Karim Haunt was really good at running the ball. And in the short yard, he was kind of a cheat code. I know Kenneth has been stopped a couple of times. So there are different size packs. Marcus Allen was kind of long and lean, but he could always seemingly get that short yardage. You know, Karim Haunt's more of a low center of gravity powers. There's some kind of traitors. There's something that really makes you good as a short yardage back. Well, first of all, it's an attitude. Obviously any back will tell you. Okay. If you're giving me the ball of the games on the line, we're going to find a way to get it. Okay. But when it's all said and done with us about a collective team effort, we didn't execute very well. We didn't play very well in that particular moment. You know, we should have did some things up front, obviously. But, you know, the back got a find a way to get it. But at the end of the day, collectively as an offensive unit, we didn't get the job done. And I always talk to these guys about being at your best when your best is needed.

8:11And that kind of sputtered us from that point on. So, you know, the moral of the story is that when those moments are clearly put in our position, for us to go out there and execute, moving forward, we got to find a way to get it done. Quick follow-up if it could. Is there something specific about various running backs that went up? I just shouldn't write back at him again. I mean, I've done that before, but he's not going to go that. I mean, he's getting where you get it. We got to get it done. It's a group effort. Like, I mean, that to me, I'm going to say it again. Like, you can be like, hey, it's different. It's like, hey, it's different ways to do it. Some guys got to get low. You know, it's a leverage thing. You know, Kenneth Walker talked about that later in the day. About getting low on guys. And, you know, that's about how he breaks tackles and things like that. You know, I think you could have got something about the success. Karim was great at this. Just talk about Karim hunting what made him great.

9:11You know, we're still working on, we're still getting our feel for Kenneth and everything. But, you know, he made this one, this one, and this one. And, I don't know, didn't get much there. I asked me how many adjustments they make in game. You know what that conversation takes place. And there's also conversations that take place where they could be taking something away schematically. And so, there's always an ongoing communication throughout the whole entire game. And obviously, your first, you go in at halftime, you may make some second half adjustments. But, you just want to always remain flexible. And I think collectively as a staff, we do a great job of putting our guys in position. But also to making sure that we have answers if they are taking away something. And so, we continue to make sure that as a staff that we have certain things that we can improvise into just to. But, we just want to make sure that our players are mentally and physically prepared when those defining moments come up. You know, I really, I talked about like, hey, some guys, it's not, I know you want to get them all to everybody.

10:13But it's not working to this guy. How do you make the adjustment? And he kind of gave a broad overview. But we'll see, we'll see how they adjust against the Raiders. What do the Raiders try to take away from this situation? All right, let's take a break. We'll talk to Mike Sando, our NFL insider next. Welcome back here in the program here on Sports Radio 810, WHB Serend Petro, Curtis Sebelka, call you with you. We're going to talk some NFL footballer NFL insider, Mike Sando from the athletic. Join us here in the program. He's always brought to you by our friends at Roberts Robinson. It's truck month at Roberts Robinson 0% APR for five years from qualified buyers on new 26 Chevy Silverado 1500 and 26 GMC Sierra 1500 trucks go see him at Roberts Robinson. You can go online right now and see more than 100 new and used vehicles at Roberts Robinson dot com. You seniors don't forget you get 10% off auto services on Tuesdays and Thursdays military and first responders. You get 10% off parts of labor from the service department. Great, great group of guys there at Roberts Robinson. They will take care of you the way they take care of me and my family.

11:15Go check them out. They are wonderful to work with Robbie Brooks and sales. We'll get you taken care of. They'll even pick up your car, bring it back, handle the service and take it back to you. It's at Roberts Robinson. Get that loan or vehicle and you're not even missing a beat when they come and get it from you. And don't forget the only place where you can get that free lifetime powertrain warranty on all new vehicles. One of only a handful of dealers around the country that can offer it. Don't settle for three for 36 when you can get lifetime powertrain warranty at Roberts Robinson, including the engine transmission, transfer case, all the important things. It's at Roberts Robinson. Find them online at Roberts Robinson dot com. Go see him at person and see for yourself why they just make it easy at Roberts Robinson. Let's talk to Mike Sando here. Mike, how are you, sir? Great. Thanks. Tell me was I've kind of asked this to a lot of people was the win in Miami progress. Was it neutral? Was it reverse? What when you when you play with your food to where you're only up four points in the fourth quarter with the Miami dolphins?

12:16What what do we how do we view that? Let me just some degree. I look at this. I think it's progress because what are they one by two touchdowns? How many times were we talking about that every game? It's a streak of games with the lowest, you know, the lowest game's one score games all this, you know, you know, yeah, it felt inevitable they're going to win the game, right? You never at any point. Did you think some of the dolphins are going to win? I did not think the dolphins were going to win, but at four points in the fourth quarter, I was like, they are one mistake away from trailing in this game. Like, I don't feel like they stat they built on it. No, my gosh, I feel even better about the chief, but like in the scheme of things. You know, they took care of business. It's hard to go. And it was down there, correct? Yes, it was in Miami. It's down there. Yeah, and it's hot, you know, so it's hot. It's hot. The stadium was empty. Although there was there was the estimation was that. How did. Sam McDowell said 40% of the seats had cheese fans in it. 30% had dolphins and 30% had no.

13:17Well, I can picture it now and I remember looking before the game. Like, even though I believe the temperature said it was going to be like 84. Now that my mind is coming together, that's still paying down there. So I come okay with it. I'm not going to go. Oh, yeah, hey, I choose to test down win, man. The cheese her back. I don't think we do that. I think we understand it was closer than that, but I think there's an inevitability to the good teams winning. You know, and. And I had no point. I think it's how it's fine. It's fine. I don't feel less of them. Yeah, I. To me, I kind of consider it neutral. In some ways, the offense was very efficient. They just couldn't get the ball because the defense like if you asked me. They was neutral to slight progress on the offense as much as you can progress against the defense like the dolphins that are really just completely rehauling everything. But defensively, it would they backed up like there was this is the second game that they've had zero sacks. So this is now not just a one off or somebody had a good scheme or are we still pressured the quarterback? Malik wills have been sack nine times in the first two games and the chiefs didn't get one sack.

14:20They affected Daniel Jones at times in the game before against the Colts, but they did not really affect Malik wills. And they allowed like four third down conversions on the opening drive, including an 18 yard conversion. And that you know, they've got a lot of invested in that defensive line like that not just the price of George Carloftus and more, more, more, the bigger check me with Chris Jones. But you know, a first round pick in Peter Willis a second round pick in our Mason Thomas, a first round pick in Felix on you. Deke Zama a third round pick in I asked in July. He all more normal lots of playing right now, but he's a second round pick. And then they gave a decent chunk of change to Kyra's target to come over. I mean, like they should get better from that defensive line. Absolutely. And my the way that I've looked at them this year, obviously they got younger and they they had, you know, starting corners, leave and all of that. And I wondered at a certain point in the upseason are they going to be asking too much of Steve's Magnolo. You know, I think when you let good players go. You got to you got to wonder that. But I've always looked at them this year is like I want to see the progress of them getting better and building towards something on that side of the ball, which we've sometimes seen before.

15:28I think we've had other chief years where the first five, six weeks of the year on defense were like, oh my gosh, they're 30 seconds, right. And then by the end of the year, they're 18th or something, right? Or they're, they're at least respectable. And I think when you have a great quarterback and hopefully a great offense as the year goes along, which we'll see. You don't have to have a top 10 defense, but you can't have a bottom five bottom 10. And I think that's really what I want to see is that tart that component a bit grow. I think when you look at the last a lot of Super Bowl winners. Seattle certainly last year, Philly the year before they had guys that come at you in waves. And I do think that that is not something you absolutely have to have to be a championship team. But I think it's a. It's a heart much harder to win it all when you don't have that. I think that's that's a fair way to put it. I don't think you can keep tying up resources and have it not produce. Right. We've talked to the past. We're going to see Josh Simmons gets back. You know, Andy Reed finally used the term bulging disc to describe his injury.

16:28We'll get to that in a minute. But, but you know, he was the third consecutive year that they've taken a tackle in the first three rounds. It's like at some point you have to solve left tackle. Right. It's okay. The Kingsley King's is going to be a good left guard. That's great. Juan humorous. You salvage with some kind of consularie pick going out the door to Atlanta. Okay, fine. But at some point, one of those tackles has to be the left tackle, right? And they're hoping that that's going to be it with Josh Simmons. Well, it's the same thing going on with the defensive line. They're pouring resources into it. And I get it that the true Derek Thomas, the true roar off the edge. Strike fear into the hearts of the opponent generally comes in your first 15 picks. Got it. But you can create a good defensive line with quality depth to where you're rotating in guys are fresh. You wear down the opposition and you get home and they've put that kind of resource into it. And we're not seeing those results. And I think, you know, the dolphins game, I think just has to be an absolute red flag that like,

17:29okay, what are we doing here? I mean, Joe Cohen, the defensive line coach came in with a lot of accolades. But how many resources do you give him before you don't see the returns before you go? Well, maybe we're not getting it from the coaching staff. I mean, I just this has to be and it's going to be. It's going to be interesting to see how they how they pivot and react to no sacks against Miami. Is that a four alarm fire? I wanted to ask you also about the defense. We're talking to Mike Sandler NFL insider. A lajerious need is playing a lot. Steve Spegno likes his veterans. It was a criticism of him that he would always play veterans. And he wouldn't play the young guys early in his time here in Kansas City. In 22, they basically gave him no veterans. And he was forced to play. Trent McDuffie, Jalen Watson, Brian Cook, you know, Nazi Johnson, all these young defensive backs that they're giving. Because that's all he really had, right? People were tired of watching Daniel Sorenson who was a good chief and made some big plays from early on in his tenure in Kansas City. One of the biggest and the come back against the Texans in the playoffs.

18:30But he was oftentimes the guy you saw trailing the touchdown score of 30 or 40 yards. And it wasn't until he was gone that he quit playing him. They brought back a lajerious need this year who the Titans decided couldn't play. And everyone said, well, this can't be at the cost of no Williams. This can't be at the cost of man sort of lane of these young corners. Like what is it about? He loves talking about where guys know him where to line up. And I get it. But sometimes you need some guys that fly around. Don't make it so hard to figure out where to line up. This is so not a spag swing. Well, this is all the coaches almost like this. And I've seen it a million times as long as I've been covering the game. Really good coaches. It's comforting to know that someone's going to run the play. Right. Just think if you were the coordinator and your names on this defense or you know, and you don't try. You know, you know, it's needs possibly going to have a 95% chance of doing what he's supposed to do in the play. And you got somebody else at this stage of the season who's.

19:32You know, got a 42% chance. Man, it sucks putting the 42% out there. Now sometimes when you have to do it. You do it. And you can get through, but you're going to take your lump stuff and down. So let's just say that in this last game where hey, they wouldn't buy two touchdowns in the end. It's closer than that. We feel a little bit what if you know he's going with a couple of young guys and they have a bus to now you're down three. You're you're down three in the fourth quarter and you, you know, you'll lose the game. You know, unlikely that it would have cost him that, but I've seen that so many times in. And coaching and like to me, the most extreme examples of this that we've seen lately that it is critical is like there's so many quarterbacks who don't know how to play, you know, Jackson dark can't make it through, you know, that that's the extreme example. So I think coaches always want to have someone knows how to play it. It's hard to. It's hard to develop that at the expense of your team. So you got to have a, you got to have a plan to bring these guys along, right?

20:35Yeah, for sure. I mean, I get it, but also you got to adjust your defensive scheme and you're, I mean, you have an overall philosophy and what you want to do, but you got a tweak and adjust for what the skill sets are of the players you've got. Yeah. And yeah, there is the kiss principle that applies from time to time, right? Keep it simple stupid. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, Seattle won the Super Bowl last year and I, and they had guys that in that secondary, I'll give you an example. Ty O'Cotta was playing by week four last year, no one heard of him. He's like a Montana guy or Montana state or something. And he's like, we got to get this guy out of here off the field. This guy is going to cost him games. Well, we guess what? By the end of the year, he was an asset for them, you know, he developed. And so I think you really want to do feel confidence in it. It sounds like you don't feel confidence in their ability to consistently develop. Well, Jayden Hicks is in his third year and I'm pretty sure, Schmarrie Connor is going to come back and sit him down, right? That that's what he's going to do. Like there seems to be, you know, one Thornhill. There have been a number of young defenders that are brought in and they seem to be in the dog as you're like, OK, I'll give it a year. But then they never, they never become a full-time starter.

21:43You know, they just kind of put her along with this. And then we hear Spagnolo nicely say, you know, well, there are a couple of plays he could make. You know, I mean, he'd be the first one to tell you. And, you know, it's like it's Rinssen repeat. You know, I like if you're going to play, I guess sorry about sorry to interrupt you Mike. If you're going to play, Lajerius need don't draft Jalen Kennedy. OK, like if just tell your tell your personnel department. Don't get me the young guys. I'm going to just sign me some cheap veteran because that's what I'm going to play anyway. Right? Because I because then you can use those picks to move up and go get the the premier wide receiver you think you're missing. You can use those picks on a running back. They didn't address running back last year. We're seeing the difference. You know, there were a number of running backs they could have drafted last year. They didn't maybe they wouldn't have needed to give $14 million to Kenneth Walker. But when you're drafting picks and giving him to the defensive side and they don't use them. That becomes a frustration overall for the building of your team. It does. And so here's the here's what immediately came to mind as you were saying that is also you have an Andy Read and Steve Spegnolo to super senior guys. I mean, just their age, but I mean super empowered guys, right? I mean these.

22:56You're not going to find anyone in any building in their roles who has more sway and juice of how they run things, right? Right. So that often happens. I mentioned the Seattle guy, Taokata. Well, guess what? There's much more of a. You know, the relationship between the front office, the GM and the coach is different. The power is different, right? The GM got to hire the coach and is over the coach and not saying anybody wouldn't want to have any read. One of the one of the things that can happen when you have the coach with all of the juice is, you know, they're going to play who they want to play, maybe a little bit more. And if they don't think you guys ready, they can be feeling internally well than get me a different guy, you know. Yeah, yeah. It did. You know, and they've had the cheese have had a pretty harmonious relationship coaching staff with front office and and that's that's, you know, but we're picking nits. Obviously over the big picture of this group working together, they are coming off a six and 11 season. So the nits are a little bit more.

23:57Maybe a parent right now, one more for the chiefs. And then I'll get I want to get to the NFL stuff from around the league. I mentioned that they said Andy re came to the podium. It seemed it was his plan to finally say bulging disc when it came to the back injury. And they didn't I are on which will tell you to believe that they they thought there was a chance they could get him back in shorter than four weeks. It also speaks to me that like I don't want to hear anybody talk about how roster constraints 53s, plenty, especially with a taxi squad and all the call ups. You got plenty of guys to go play when you when you carry Josh Simmons in this situation, because it was clearly just a best case scenario that he would be ready. My question for you is do coaches they they love to be vague about injuries. Do they gain something on that or do they just create a bunch of drama that doesn't need to be there. Obviously this came with the fact that every bunch of fans because Josh Simmons left the team last year for undisclosed reasons are questioning, which is fair to wonder it. I don't think it's fair to report it because we what we've been told unless somebody's got some other information and I don't believe they do is that he was injured.

25:02This is confirming that he was injured and saying what it is by getting with the fans are like well as is you know as he is mentally tough is he to leave the team on and Andy clearly was tired of hearing that. So he said he's got a bulging disc right that could have been avoided by saying he's got a bulging disc back in when they sat him down a training camp. Yeah answer your own question that's exactly where I was going to go with it. I feel like for sure that that that's why he would do that there's you know at a certain point you know you're you that that helps you when you're locker room with your players when the players aren't hung out the dry with some vague injury that the people think is a non injury because this player has a track record that people make the question him right so I think that's a certain point when you got it like it's not like they're trying to be vague going into a game. This week where he's going to start or something I think that I think they're protecting the player with that well and you know this is my my they're protecting the player from the stand up but are they protecting the player because everybody's not questioning whether or not he really wants to play football.

26:03Trace Smith we did somebody even went so far as to report that trace Smith was calling out Josh Simmons that was in walk back and you know so there was all that drama that played out like you just come on. Yeah if you just come on go he's got a bulging disc listen best case four weeks worst case 12 we're going to hope for four we're going to do everything we can he's working hard and treatment we'll see where it goes from here. Yeah so if there's you know sometimes when there's smoke there is fire I think there's a given example like the J.J. McCarthy thing there's a lot of stuff there's a lot of like clues and hands but there are people are just actually saying right there's more to that story you just feel it okay and so you know that could be the case here and there could be frustration I don't know if there is or isn't but there could be frustration when guys have injuries that you maybe could play through or not you know those sorts of things can be you know you can have your own teammates that can get you again I'm sure. I don't know if that's what's that's what's happening but my perception was when you say confirm the guy has an actual injury that gets people off his back usually.

27:03Yeah yeah all right so I'll get to J.J. McCarthy in a minute do you believe the Raiders are what how good do you think the Raiders are now being three and oh against teams that are collectively one and eight yes they handed them three losses so one and five when they don't play the Raiders how good are the Raiders. They've made that step towards they're not the one and eight team you know what I mean I think that they are now showing that they can beat the bad teams and and even beat some middle middleing team but I think New Orleans is you know a team that could be one eight or nine games is here possibly so I think that's a big step I think it shows the value of coherent coaching. For them, and obviously a veteran quarterback, I think Kirk Cousins has played better than I expected that he would. I didn't know that he physically could move well enough. I thought he might not, I never thought he'd throw three touchdown passes in each of the first three games. And I believe he joins Aaron Rogers as the only guys to do that at age 38. So good for him. That's showing me something I didn't expect. But I think they were so disjointed from a coaching philosophy standpoint.

28:05And you look at Pete Carroll as the head coach with Patrick Graham, I believe, running the defense. And then you have Chip Kelly running the offense. And you have two of Pete's sons kind of in the middle of everything, not merit-based hires. I think they were a mess from a staff standpoint. And it's very hard to get through to the players, hold guys accountable, any of that type of stuff. I think they were a way bigger mess last year than we thought maybe going into the season where you are. Pete Carroll, he usually wins the 90-10 games. No, total mess. So I think they've at least gotten organized, but I'm not ready to fully buy in and believe over the long haul because I think they're still the Raiders organization. It's still owned by Mark Davis. They're going to have ups and downs. Who knows what happens when the young quarterback gets in there? Mendoza. But this is a wonderful to me testament to competency of coaching. I think they're competent as coaches now. Yeah, Kubiak, you think as a whether you listen, you can flame out with the Raiders.

29:09His dad's mentor, Mike Shanahan did and went on to then have success with the Broncos. You think though whether it's this stop or another one, Clint Kubiak is going to be a guy that has 10, 15, 20 years as a head coach or do you think he's a one shot and back to coordinating? That's a really great question because I think he can do it longer than that, but I don't think that he's super aspired to be a head coach like a lot of people do. There was a lot of talk because his personality is kind of low key. And so I think we've seen a little bit of his personality come out after these wins. And it's probably given him a lot of juice that he might have had a harder time getting going. I think my my concerns for him as far as being a long term coach would be, I think we've seen him early in the season with the with the Saints come out with their car and have an amazing offense. And then it petered away, right? Yeah, it didn't maintain. So I think that would be one thing because he have a next year. I think it went pretty well with Seattle for him, but they had a great defense. So you know, he wasn't asked to really try to win it every week.

30:12I do think he's a really good play collar. I think he's a good coach. He's probably better than I would have expected as a head coach, kind of like his dad. I think his dad was like that too. Here, Kubiak is probably not somebody that you would say, hey, give give me your best three pre game speech guys or best 30 in the history of, you know, he's not going to be one of them. His record over time is pretty good. And I think that Kubiak's ability to affect the offense gives him an edge over the Jim Harbaz or John Harbaz that are more of the CEO coaches. I think he'll always be able to have some answers offensively. Yeah, all right. That is our NFL insider Mike Sando joins us each and every week here in the program brought to by our friends at Roberts Robinson Kansas City's best when it comes to getting you into a new or used vehicle more than a hundred to choose from. Find them online at Roberts Robinson dot com bike Robinson. He's got a great team, Tim Trader, the sales manager, Jordan Waters, the finance manager, Robbie Brooks and service. They're all great to work with. They stand behind the vehicle. They're wonderful. When you're on the lot, they're great. Even when you drive off the lot, see for yourself while they just make it easy at Roberts

31:13Robinson. They're online at Roberts Robinson dot com. Welcome back here in the program here on sports radio eight 10 WHB as we talk NFL football with Mike Sando are NFL insider senior NFL writer for the athletic always brought to by our friends at Roberts Robinson. You can find them online at Roberts Robinson dot com. Don't forget you always get the highest trade value on your vehicle when you go to Roberts Robinson. They make it easy. They just make it easy. Take advantage of it. Don't forget the only place where you can get free lifetime powertrain on all new vehicles. What if only a handful of dealers around the country. It's only available to a few dealers here in Kansas City. It's available at Roberts Robinson. Take advantage of it. It's as long as you own that vehicle. You're covered. It's a great, great thing to have that peace of mind. It's nice to know and Robert Robinson gives it to you. Plus it's always a peaceful buying experience at Roberts Robinson. All right, Mike. Let's talk about trading season. It's really up and running. We have McCarthy traded last night. We get the trade for Joey Porter, Jr. Going from the Steelers to the Cowboys.

32:14What are you making this deal from both sides? Yeah, I think the Pittsburgh just got tired. They weren't going to move off of their, you know, 60 year history of how they operate with some of these contracts. They don't know their GM is a contract negotiating guy in Omar Khan. And so they were stuck and they weren't going to budge in the player. In this case, Joey Porter was probably faking the back injury, right? To not have to play and just got untenable. So I felt like in the last week or so, this was going to come to a head at some point. Now they get a second round pick, which is probably pretty good. Sometimes when you have to sell, you know, low, you're not able to get that. Do I think he helps the Cowboys, but I've been disappointed in the Cowboys ability to sort of implement their defense and put it together and be, you know, make some of the improvements that you thought they might be able to make. So I think it's really arranged to be seen whether they're going to do anything with it. I will say that it feels to me like Jerry Jones, you know, realizes, you know, that he doesn't have forever. He's close to 84.

33:15I think he's old. He's made some moves here, you know, I know he unloaded my comparisons, but then he's made some acquisition moves since then that at least shows some urgency. Yeah, definitely. That's a great point. And also, Lens Credence to some stuff that we heard about the Cowboys having interest in Mansort, Elaine, that being maybe the team that the Chiefs were fending off and they went up from nine to six. They got a great player in Caleb Downs and looks like it's safety, but they were clearly hunting for corners because now they've made a deal for one. You mentioned the J.J. McCarthy trade. What do you make of this on both sides? Clearly the Vikings like, all right, this isn't going to work. We're moving on. Yeah. What's the Giants plan? Is this a sign that they're not convinced? They think Jackson Dard taking all the hits is a real problem and this kids a chance to fight for the starting job on down the road or just a stopgap right now to change the culture. I think familiarity is always a huge deal when you're getting a veteran quarterback. That, you know, some sort of connection on the staff is, is statistically more present when you hire, when you sign a quarterback than under positions.

34:15And so the fact that J.J. McCarthy's biggest fan has been John Harbodge, brother Jim is to me, why it, why it happened. I don't think they necessarily would have done it. Their philosophy is good about doing it. Yes, they, they had better worry a little bit about Jackson Darts ability to stand the field and be healthy. Didn't make it to games this year and look what he's doing when he gets hurt. Oh, he wasn't running around. It was in the pocket. Yeah, the, he was 11 yards deep in the pocket. And then when the pressure comes inevitably those, those rushers meet you there, he's jumping up in the air to throw a pass and he's getting his leg whipped around. I just don't think he has shown an ability to know how to play. But when I question for the giants is, and I really, I think the Vikings have had this too. When you put together your, your quarterback group. In what world do you think that Jackson Darts, J.J. McCarthy and James Winston is what you're looking for? In terms of, hey, like I like look at, look at what, look at what Shaggo's doing.

35:19Like a case, key, I'm there. You forgot case games even in the week, right? Right. But case, key, I'm like knows how to prepare. He knows how to handle himself at the position. I'm confident that, and then after case, key, I'm has a good game. What does Ben Johnson say? There's a lot of things that Caleb can learn here about how, how things were different this week. With this guy, he was almost signaling that, hey, Caleb, you're a star. But some of these things that, that let this guy, who's not a star, performer to high level, could make you be even more consistent. Are you going to be holding up, James Winston? And be like, hey, guys, J.J. I mean, J, J, J, J Jackson, watch this guy. Do it how he does it. Would you feel that way? No. And, and I did not get, I don't understand the fascination with James Winston, either. Like they, everyone in the media, he's now become like, I think almost a clown with some of the interviews he did. Side-line things where he just rambled on.

36:20Like he's decided, somebody has told him that, you know, you're a great preacher or something and they bring him on to team so they can give the team speech running out on the field. And he just went on this rambling nonsense. And I'm like, what, like, it's, yeah, I think he's decided, okay, my future is elsewhere after football, but he's, he's taken on this role of being a preacher for lack of a better term. And so now he's trying to fill that role. And no, I don't know. I, I, I, I cannot believe that John Harbaugh was involved with making that signing. Like it's, he is the anti-Harbaugh approach to getting things done. Yeah, I agree. So why would you put him around a young player as my point? I'm 100% backing you up. Yeah, is, you know, is James going to be there next year? I mean, to me, they've got to, I would want to reconfigure this thing and have somebody who, who to me, JJ McCarthy and Jackson Dart, as much as anything, have to learn how to play the position,

37:20how to fill the role of the quarterback on a team that when you take risks with your body, you're risking everybody's livelihood, then what you say at the podium and how you say it matters. You can't be nine. Okay. I'm nine. I got this persona nine. Like you're, like you're a pro wrestler. Yeah. I'm nine. I'm thinking of, you know, what was the wrestler from the 90s hit? It, I, I, I can't, I can't remember his name now. I'm, but it's like these personas of guys that you're talking about, James, we don't need a persona. Yeah. Yeah. We need to see you. Yeah. It gets there early and he's, he's the first card in a lot and he's totally prepared and he's going to show everyone else. This is how you do it, which, which is what strikes me about case, Keenam. And you know, when you mentioned him, like we were watching Monday football and I was like, how much did he, what's he making? Two years, five million. I'm like, well, I mean, he's played good football.

38:22He's won games. He took the Vikings to the playoffs. I mean, I don't think he should be your franchise quarterback. But man, if he was willing to go to the pairs or two for five, I'm like, how about being patched back up? I'd like to see him, you know, in a role, he's had much more success than, then, you know, Justin Fields has. Now, I think they like fields for doing some fun things, maybe the goal line or coming up with some package. But, but I'm with you. I was like, Case Keenam, he was throwing darts in that game. He looked really good and it's like, how are, got it out. Yeah, get the ball out. Yeah. Like, but I think fields was signed at a time when you had uncertainty over my homes for the first month of the season. And you may have to run a, you know, you may have to run a triple auction offense or some crazy thing to just get through it. But I think now that we, it looks like Pat Mahomes is fine. Obviously, I've wondered if they would, you know, what did he get? What did fields get to the trade him with the deadline? Well, he was, they didn't trade either. I think it might even have been just a conditional pick. Basically, the jets just dumped some of the salary, but the chief's are only paying three million of it.

39:24So he's got 10 coming to him, but they're only paying three. But I'm just like, you know, Case Keenam does play good football. I mean, it seems like the ebb and flow of Case Keenam, you know, this is like the, you can mark the times of quarterbacking by that. Like, oh, we need a veteran guy. Oh, no, we don't want that. We need a young guy to develop. Oh, a veteran guy can go win. Oh, no, you know, he, he comes up and then he goes down and he comes up and he goes down. It's just, you know, and really it's not going to work everywhere. If Case Keenam went into the game against Miami, you know, he might have been prepared, but totally over well, maybe the chief's past rush were let him win Quink off the hook. But you know what I mean? I think he's going in with Ben Johnson, who like is relishing this moment on a national TV. He's like, oh, all right. We're not as talented. We can't do some certain things, but you know what? This guy can play and we're going to give him a plan to beat the blitz that's going to come. And he can do it. And like, I think, I think he liked it. Now you don't want to do it for six weeks, but I think, I think Case Keenam could go on the somewhere else and not succeed. What I'm saying. We've already seen two trades of note here. We just talked about McCarthy and Joey Porter.

40:24Are we going to see even more? We're a long way from the trade deadline. And teams are already willing to do that. They changed their mindset. And will we see I bring up like Brian Thomas as a guy that, you know, played looked like he was going to be a stud number one. Why receivers first year and it's just falling off the map with the Jaguar. So are we going to see guys like him moving around? I think there is probably a little bit greater likely that we're the numbers get inflated lately in recent years on trades and make people say, Oh, wow, everyone's more willing to trade is. What's for sure happening is guys are trading bottom of the roster guys. Like, you know, there's a lot of guys who don't make a difference to get traded. And it's just kind of like, Ah, all right, just got a six round pick. We're going to swap sevenths. And then we got something for this guy. He wasn't really a bust. Yeah. But he kind of still was a bust. There's a lot of deals that don't make, you know, don't move the needle at all. Now the number of like big trades in season, I don't think is like totally gone way up. But it was I would say you're probably feel a little bit more likely that teams would do it.

41:25I think there's a different little bit of a different mindset. And certainly with the cap and the cash part of it, you know, the owners make a lot of money now. So I think people have been willing to do things that affect your cap or cash more than maybe they used to. All right. Last thing I want to hit upon is the officials missing the call in the Broncos Rams game. How does that happen? Like how do you have replay and everybody in real time is like that's offensive pass interference. And they get it wrong. I don't understand how it times the officials and their replay are utterly incompetent. Well, how do you line up off sides or get drawn off sides on a fourth and one when you know the quarterbacks into a hard count, right? How how do you well, it happens. How do you do any of the number of things that that coaches and players do on the field that don't make any sense. They're human.

42:25It happens. You're never going to please everyone on officiating. Replay is the classic thing that people think is going to fix it, but it's still a human thing. Even the replay part is right. We always want to put in replay and then when they do it, that sucks too. Because of the human component. And so until we get AI officiating, which you know, I think we're probably a little ways away from. Like we're going to live with this. That's just what's going to happen. I think that's a good point. And in your and in Mike's pick six column, he talked about, I think that's where it was, right? Were you one of the things you had up there? Talk to a bunch of people right about replay and and how to fix it or what could do it? How about the ACC style of like here it is. We go live there and we hear it. It's transparent for how they're coming to this conclusion, right? Like, oh, yeah, I love that. That why isn't that the first thing that the NFL does? Because then the owners, whoever is the boss, whoever's in charge of it, has a record of how you arrived at this horrible, horrible decision.

43:32And you can fire the people that make the mistakes. There's no doubting what they did. We heard you that's incompetent. You no longer qualify for this job. You're out. I think they, I think the latest contract between the league and the referees moved closer to that, the officials to where the league got some of those things. But I think it's still an insulated protected group that isn't, that has a cover your ass mentality a lot of the times. These guys are obviously under siege a lot and they, they, they protect each other. And we've even seen that with some of these analysts in the booth that are former officials kind of, you know, carrying water occasionally, right? Or they're not as harsh with their guy as, as you would hope. So I think that whole culture of it has to change. But I think it, I think it can get there over time, you know, through these agreements between the league and the team. Now the other thing is does the league want that? Like the league is not necessarily always striving to make everything better. In some ways, I think the league doesn't mind everyone talking about what's going on and the officiating that type of stuff.

44:34There's no one's stopping to watch the league. People are talking about it and there's controversy and it's fun and I don't know that. I think when the rules get changed, usually it's because one owner got pissed and so that guy gets mad and makes 11 noise and they change it that year, which is a terrible process. Yeah, FIFA has been accused of that that they don't really want all the calls right because they like all the drama and everything. So I wouldn't be the first league that that has alleged to have happened with. Now let's get to our final four. I will start you with this. Let's let's talk about some of the bottom feeders. Who finishes with a better record? Raiders or Browns? There are two teams that nothing was expected of that are Raiders of three know. Have a tougher schedule. I'm assuming. All right, look at it. They do have a tougher schedule than the Browns. But the Browns are two and one. Who has a better record once all said and done. I think I still lean towards the Raiders. You're right about the schedule. I think the Raiders next 7 670 games are tough. I just think that the quarterback situation is something that I would be willing to more bet on the quarterback with the head coach together for the Raiders than I would with the Sean Watson or should or standards whoever's going to play for the Browns.

45:40What team leads the league and scoring? That's a really great question. You know, it may be the chiefs. Who do you think who do you think is going to be? I think that she schedules too tough to get there. I think I think there's just too many good teams. I would lean towards. I would lean towards maybe Buffalo. Because I think Brady's going to put his foot on the gas. Yeah, Buffalo is probably a good one. Usually we usually just for listeners. Now you send me these things and I look at it better. I didn't look at that one as good. I'm you know, hey. How about the 49ers? I think they're healthy. I think they definitely get there, although they play in the NFC West and have some tough games there, but I can definitely see the 49ers. Yeah, I'll do the 49ers. You can do Buffalo, but I think Buffalo is a great one too. Okay. All right. Three oh and three teams that had expectations this year. Chargers, Texans and bucks. Who ends up with the best record? I think they're still lean towards Houston because of the division that they play in and, you know, I think they've been closer in some of these games.

46:48The other two. Man, Tampa's really bad. I mean, they're the worst offense and the league statistically and a lot of that's because of the turnovers. Now their quarterbacks hurt. It just doesn't. It sort of feels like we're winding down there with that group. Okay. So, and the chargers to me, I'm certain to question a little bit of the, the fit there in terms of the playing. So I thought Kurt Warner would have had some good points about this with just in her, kind of being a point and shoot type of a quarterback in a timing offense. Like are we going to see this really come together? Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. All right. Give me your prediction on the game. Chiefs and Raiders. Who wins? What's the score? I think the chiefs get this one done. I'm going to say it's going to be, you know, 27 to 23, a little bit of a closer game. I think that would take it over as well. A little bit higher scoring. That would take it over and it would give the Raiders the cover by one half point.

47:49Okay. So you're feeling a competitive. You kind of feel that way. Yeah. Do you feel that way? I don't know. I haven't, I do think that there's, you know, listen, I always say you're betting when we do these things, you're betting the game not coaching it. So don't sit there and try to scheme everything up. The point spreads already done that for you. But I do the one thing I, the Raiders run defense is a problem. And I think the chiefs, if they're running the ball are going to be pretty effective on offense. And I think they've got to unleash something on Kirk cousins. So I, I, I think it's going to be a tougher game. But I think it could get away from the Raiders in the fourth quarter. So I could see this or I think one mistake by the Raiders and all the summer talking about a, you know, 13 point chiefs win on a game that was, you know, tied to six points the whole day. I can see that too. I'm sure that I don't bet on these games. It really, however it goes, you could usually say, yeah, I could see that. But it's hard to know for sure how it is going to go during the game. I just sensed in that, you know, watching Kubiak in the locker room after the game.

48:58Like he mentioned the chiefs in the post game locker room. Like, you know, it's circled in a way that the Raiders aren't for Kansas. So does that make sense? Yeah, it does. It does. Absolutely does. Like you're always circled. Always a big moment on our calendar. We get a chance to talk to you, buddy. We appreciate it. We'll do it again next week. Absolutely. Thank you.