GOP's Thom Tillis on "The Beat"

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1:00This is the B with Ari Melber. And coming up tonight, we have a top Republican Senator who has broken with Trump over certain issues, including January 6th. You've probably heard of him. He was back in the news recently for confronting Trump with some rather spicy text that made headlines. Senator Tom Tillis, someone who's in the news, we often are talking about him. We're playing clips from him. Well, he will be here live talking to us in tonight's program. So I invite you to stay with me for the hour. Get comfortable. We're going to get to that. We begin though with the midterms and signs rocking Trump and the Republicans as they are clearly on defense, even in red states. Here's news. The president will be in the brass of all places next hour, because Republicans are according to the Hill, fretting over the Senate race there. And if they are fretting in public headlines, you can imagine what the private conversations are like. Trump was just in Texas, a place that he would not have thought two years ago. He'd be campaigning to defend a Senate seat. But of course, that was two years ago.

2:02Not only have things changed, but Donald Trump's intervention in that race has made it harder for Republicans to win, something that everybody knows. So he's trying to buck up the Maga candidate there, Ken Paxton. And for the second time in two weeks, we have insight, factually into what's going on. As I mentioned, behind closed doors where sometimes you get a more unvarnished view. The leaks are coming from people who are apparently close to the Paxing campaign, because this is leaked audio of him talking in a way that seems to blame Trump. It's a new tape that was obtained by Politico. Again, we're Paxton is in what is supposed to be a private setting of allies, people who actually give him money, who presumably want him to win, as well as lobbyists. As with all journalistic sources, we don't know exactly why someone in that room or someone who knew someone in that room eventually got the tape out, but the veracity is not really in doubt tonight. He is recorded saying that he laments. He's not really even in control of his campaign all the time. Things coming from DC, whether that's a reference to Trump, can be debated, but we will listen here to the leaked audio.

3:07I've never been a race where I thought less control over the like the campaign. And like what issues are going to matter because it's all coming from DC. And I don't control the message. Or what we're doing, and which in a further race comes from other people a lot of times, which you don't control. I don't really need to change anything. So I have to live with whatever I've got. So it is a challenge. The bottom line is that doesn't sound like someone who's saying we got this. We're winning and we want the credit. It almost sounds like what you hear sometimes in the run-up to election days when things have kind of broken down and you get those early leaks of people trying to get ahead of their own loss. Now again, this is up to the voters. If Pax and Wins, these audio tapes will probably evaporate like so much political piffle. But if he loses, tapes like this will be the kind of early warning shot that he was trying to tell at least donors and maybe someone who wanted to leak this to upset Trump or draw attention to the problem that whatever plays are being won on a DC, he doesn't think they're working in Texas,

4:08to which many observers would say, duh, Texas isn't even supposed to be this close. New polling shows Pax and training the Democrat there, James Tallerico. By about six points, that's beyond the margin of error. The Times reporting the path to control the Senate for the Dems is now quote, widening as the party's fortunes improve in five red states, which they call reliably Republican, Alaska, Iowa, Ohio, the aforementioned Texas, and even Kansas. There's also new reporting on five Republican centers who are not on the ballot, but criticize Trump on the economy where it is just not okay anymore, even in red states, to go along with the Trump spin that the economy is somehow good, or these are little things, as JD Vance said, people are upset. They cannot afford gas and groceries. Credit card debt is booming. Trump's tariffs and war have made life harder. Take Republican Kennedy from Louisiana. I think the biggest issue is cost of a living.

5:11I think we have to tell the American people the truth. Tell them not to believe their own line checkbooks. It is not going to work. Not going to work. Democrats, meanwhile, targeting six more districts where Trump had double digit wins again, just in the last cycle, November 24, is polling that shows now Americans are identifying more as Democrats than Republicans by an 11-point margin. That's a long ways from where we were. Again, November to January when Trump was reelected and people thought Mago was somehow ascending or cool, not out in the country now. That is the biggest edge if you're counting on that question since 09 back during that early calmer, hopeful euphoria of the new Obama administration. I'm joined tonight kicking us off with our friend and colleague Alex Wagner, MSNOW, analyst host of Runaway Country on Crooked Media. She's author of The New York Times the best seller of the steel for right-wing hardliners, one Republican presidency, and the

6:12raid on America's courts. You can Google the steel, Alex Wagner right now to get that book, as I've mentioned before, full disclosure. We work together and we like you. So that's a book recommendation base there. It's not like I don't know you. You're not saying you've read it, but lots of people have and they do like, I read a lot around here, Alex. You do have a lot that you're, it's not that the to-do pile is a big one. I mentioned that Obama comparison. These numbers go flying around and nothing matters until all the votes are counted. We say that, we mean that. But when you see even people saying, oh yeah, yeah, I'm a Democrat. Yeah. And a year ago they weren't. What do you see there? I see the Democratic Party being in a much stronger position. I mean, every, first of all, let's just, this needs to be the caveat issued in front of all of these conversations. This is going to be a tight race. I think people have a tendency to see stuff like that. And if you're a Democrat or somebody cares about democracy, you might be enthused by those numbers, it's still going to be a tight race. But man Trump is doing everything he can to help the Democrats win both chambers of Congress. I mean, you see, you we talk about his shepherding of the American economy. But once he

7:16actually goes out on the campaign trail as the closer parts of the country where he's not actually wanted like the state of Ohio where he was this weekend, he's talking about his high IQ. He's talking about his support for data centers, his friendship with Kim Jong-un. He gets the name of the candidate he's supposed to be stumping for incorrect. He is not helpful on any number of fronts. And then you just have the abysmal record that Republicans in Congress have on any number of items and their refusal in large part to talk about it publicly. I think the tape you played from Ken Paxton, if that's a leak from the Paxton campaign, it is indicative of someone who has no spine. And in this moment, when you have other Republicans in Congress. It's break down what you're saying. Well, he said it to this group of allies. What do you say? Go to Vocche behind closed doors. The biggest break with Trump theoretically, if this has been leaked by the Paxton campaign, is to leak audio of him complaining about how he has to take his marching orders from Washington. First of all, very, Congress is a separate and co-equal branch

8:20of government. The senator from Texas is not supposed to be taking his marching orders from Washington and the executive branch ever. Anyway, but let me just slow you down. You're saying that basically his vibe is we're losing. We think that if we could get more control over this campaign and the spending we could be doing better, we're afraid to even say that to Trump and his team. Yes. We're going to leak it. In the least convincing way possible. If I'm a Texas voter, how is that man possibly going to represent me in my interest when he's so terrified of the man in the White House that she can't even say publicly or even privately I would assume? Sir, what you're doing isn't in my best interest and isn't in Texas's best interest. You look at how uncool Trump has become. I use that word deliberately because politics with debate things. A lot of people will say if it's on their side and their agreement, they'll try to say that the uncool is cool when they agree. For example, with all due respect, the late senator Paul Simon is a big nerd and then his fans will be like, he's a good guy,

9:23clean government. It's kind of cool that he's a nerd. It was like, I feel you, but not necessarily. Work with that. That's what you've got. Now Trump is so uncool that people who bandwagoned are fleeing. I want to play you something. This may remind you. I don't know if you ever have a friend or anyone watching as a friend where all the sudden they're into the nicks and you're like, you know, that's me. I'm your friend that suddenly into the next. You're never talking about the nicks or they get into Taylor Swift once she got big. Then they're on their bad bunny thing, but after. I know who you are. Well, Johnny come late at least or Rogan come late at least or Rogan leave early. Take it where you want. Joe Rogan has millions of falls. It is true at times that he was supportive of Bernie and other issues, but he has been big MAGA. This is how he sound. I want people to hear this America and keep in mind your bandwagon nicks friends. You have them. You know, that's me. Here's how he sounds now.

10:23So over there left wing my whole life. But yeah, at the point, I know you have very left wing views on a lot of things and very left wing views on a lot of things, but I also recognize when government is taking over our lives and what we were sold with the Trump administration would be that would end. And you know, they'd be a drain the swamp. Obviously, it's not an ideal like in that regard. Not only not ideal, but he has been left wing his whole life. My point is not to get into the veracity of Mr. Rogan's evolution and people can change their mind in politics. But what does it tell you that someone who every day is trying to hold an audience out there is now not just saying he's not MAGA didn't work out. But that he's he's actually left wing. That is core. He's a nicks fan. No, I mean, I think it's indicative of someone who feels light first of all, at least Joe Rogan feels like he has a license to be critical of Trump, right? In a way that other Republicans don't. But it's also indicative of just how broken, how betrayed these Trump stands, these Trump

11:26tree believers have how betrayed they've been. And it begins, you know, we've talked a lot about the Epstein files. It is you can draw a line from Epstein to Iran and the sense of just piercing betrayal on the part of this president, the corruption of both fiscal corruption, financial economic corruption, but also moral and ethical corruption that Epstein, I think, represented all of it is bundled together. And I mean, I know we have a month before the actual in-person voting begins, but 43 states have started early voting. The economy is where it is. I mean, the cake is effectively baked in terms of the narrative of this president and this administration. And what you are left with is an adult man who gets off of Air Force One, can't walk in a straight line, can't deliver the talking points as basic as they are when it goes on the campaign trail. And for whom, if I were a swing state Republican, man, I would be busy washing my hair if Trump wanted to come to my state and stump for me. How many times a week do you even do that? Well, that's going to be a discussion I have with

12:28my hairdresser and my fellow Johnny Cummley Nick friends. I'm not going to judge people for the number of times they wash their hair, but I will say find a dog to walk if you're John Hughes dead. Find a... Find something else to do. Find a car you need to wash your hair. Because I heard that you... I heard you shouldn't even do it daily. You know what the jury's out on that? Okay, that's not known. There's so much to litigate in American life. I'm going to leave hair washing to the experts. Well, when it comes to politics, one thing in common with the salon is if you have a winning message, you rinse and repeat. You rinse and repeat. So good. And repeat. So good. And the affordability message is being repeated. Are you it's not just the message? It's the truth. People are seeing it in 50,000 font on the gas station signs and they're seeing it when they check out and trying by hamburger meat for their families. They are seeing it all parts of their life is their lived reality. And this may be before your time. I'm so young. But back in the day, they would have the Selson Blue Dandruff commercial. I remember half half. Half half. This I can tell the sides working because it tingles.

13:32It's tingling. Now on the left side's tingling. Now what's the point of that? I don't know. No point. I had no point. Just Selson Blue. Just a memory. A low key. That's how you know it's a different television, right? This is live because if we plan this and then ran that and then someone say, let's cut the Selson Blue part. We've got to go. But what I do know is that your interview with Tom Tullis is going to be far more prepped. Well, that's next. Thank you for the preview. Alex Wagner, thank you. It's always great to see you coming up. We have the new front in the war on the press. We're going to tell you about that important story. Deal. Hugoby, by the end of the hour, comics fighting back for free speech. But first, as mentioned, get comfortable. Center Tom Tullis in the news joins me live next. Seven million Californians depend on community health clinics for their care. But Proposition 44 cuts billions from clinics under 44. Hundreds of clinics will close and health services will be eliminated. That's why Prop 44 is opposed by nurses, doctors, and patients.

14:35Vote no on the clinic shutdown proposition. No, on 44. Add paid for by no on Prop 44. Stop the attack on patients and community health clinics sponsored by California Primary Care Association Advocates. Add Committee's top funders ultimate health services in California Primary Care Association Advocates. This Monday.com ad was created by a team of people and AI agents. Reese, our content agent, wrote the copy based on our best practices, like mentioning Monday.com That was the second. Johnny, our coordination agent, built the timeline and kept everyone aligned. Olivia, our human creative director, stayed in the loop because agents are great, but they don't always know when a joke lands. She had one note, tell listeners it only takes minutes to build an agent. So, minutes. Create your own AI agent today on Monday.com. The real cost of a break-in isn't your valuables. It's the feeling that your home stopped being safe. Simply safe keeps danger away from your family with three layers of protection. One, smart AI cameras and live US-based agents help stop intruders before they break in. Two, we sound the alarm at points of entry.

15:36Three, our agents request emergency response. Play and starting around a dollar a day. Right now, get 60% off your new system with professional monitoring at simplysafe.com-slash-exem. Outdoor to turns plans.com.com. Visit simplysafe.com-slash-licenses for alarm-license information. By every measure, there are signs that Republicans could lose control of the house and even possibly the Senate. North Carolina, which is not usually up for grabs, is tighter as two-term Republican incumbent there, Tom Tillus, retires rather than running again. Tillus comes from a working-class background. He entered the Senate in an era before Trump's first term, and as sometimes as you've probably seen made headlines for bucking the head of the GOP. Recently, we covered in detail the clash over Todd Blanche's Attorney General nomination, where there were concessions then ultimately a vote to confirm. Tillus also broke with Trump over some government funding and hasn't shied away from critiquing some of the cabinet members

16:40that he confirmed. We should also know just in the last few days he's been back in the headlines because of what were once private texts between him and President Trump, where he told the president, quote, I don't take that BS from anyone driving all kinds of headlines. This is also an auspicious week for him as his new book, How to Lose Friends and Intagonized Presidents, is out this week. Going on sale, there's the provocative cover. It goes on sale tomorrow. North Carolina said that Tom Tillus has decided to come on the beat and we appreciate it. Welcome. Pleasure to be here. In this book, you sort of pull back the curtain. On the texts we have you saying, quote, I still want to help as you address the president, but I don't take this bull blank from anyone, including you, Mr. President, save that blank for the cowards who don't care if you fail. I care if you fail, and right now we are failing. This was anger or a strategy to engage him. What were you doing with the president? It's always a strategy to engage him. I don't act in anger. When I put something into writing, I think about it. I was

17:46really just trying to get the president's attention. I should note that he and I have had good interchanges after those texts. Because he's aware back. We have Providence. I decided to release those texts when I finally decided that the president was mischaracterizing what happened last year. I told the president we had a disagreement. It was time for him to find another candidate. It was after that that he threatened to primary. But that's after I told him you need to get to work. When you say find another candidate, what does that mean? When the president and I decided the first time the president ever said something critical to me, it was back in last June 29th. He said I was grandstanding. Grandstanding was enough for me to say, I don't play those sort of games. I'm not going to let somebody use their abuser position of power. I'm not going to play the game trying to win a primary. If the president wants to go after me, why would I waste my time doing that? But also because you were concerned that he could maybe primary you out of a job as he's done to

18:47others. Now, I didn't see that. See, that's the fallacy of the whole process. Look, Texas's classic example, 7% of the electorate came out and John Corden lost in a primary, of course the bully pulpit why would I go against that and why would I do that and then have to fight back by doing everything I'd have to do to get closer to Trump in a state that is a microcosm of the money. Let me jump in. What you're saying is agreeing with some reformers on the right and the left who think the primary system is gets in the way of full democracy. I agree. But I think what's really getting in the way is there's no place to reward people for being truly bipartisan and working within the 35 lines of politics. The far right have more in common than they do with any of us in the center right or center left. And I think that there is time for the American people want results. They don't want performers. They won't produce. They say we have fewer and fewer. So in the book, you talk about Republicans against Trump. We all follow our viewers, follow this closely.

19:52We only hear about a couple in the Senate. You being one of them and we can get into that. You say though, my Republican colleagues, quote, at least 30 by my count express reservations mildly, you say to put it mildly about many of Trump's actions in private. That's the majority of your caucus. So you're saying they're all like till its level or more and they're too scared to say it in place. I think it's all transactional. What I didn't mean is there's a group of 30 people that if they spoke out, it's like my position on war for example, the foul. And so it's not like there's a coalition that agrees on that that that every disagreement that I've had with the president they agree with, but but there are enough people that that for a variety of reasons are not stepping up and most of them are quiet. You're saying they are or they work maybe more quietly than I do. But at the end of the day, if you don't use the devices of power, you know, the thing I love most about this job is some of my greatest accomplishments using leverage. You all will never know about it

20:54because you can tell us I know, but I don't want to because I want to prove the point that when senators use the leverage they have that come from a Senate that has a filibuster, they can be enormously powerful and they can help their president. This is all about helping the president of the United States who happens to be a Republican. Why would anybody think as a lifelong Republican, I would knowingly do something that would hurt our party. He's the head of the party. I'm supporting the president because he's the head of the party, not because he's Donald J. Trump, but because he is the face of our party. And I want my party to be in the best position for elections. And we're going to we're going to talk a little bit of a hit this season. And Ricardo, how big of a head you think you're going to lose the house? I think the house is almost statistically impossible to win. Lose the house probably lose the Senate. No, I'm not in the probably yet. I think we pull it out. It will be a tight margin, but I still think we pull it out because we got great candidates in Maine, Ohio, Arkansas. They just got to run hard and we've got to support them. Yeah, you've agreed to stick around. We're given this interview extra time when we come back. We're going to show

21:55some of you clashing with these cabinet members and what we are learning from this and the new book. We'll be back in just 90 seconds. Mr. Blanche, I want to stick a fork in this turkey of a 1776 fun. I see a problem. I want to solve it. This is a problem. It should never be paid out. Some of your statements seem to contradict what you said in the prior hearing. Just want an answer for it. What we've seen is a disaster. Under your leadership, Miss Nome, a disaster. I think I'm pretty well staked out on my assessment of Mr. Hanks. We've got a management problem here. He needs to go. You call for a headset to be ousted or resigned. We see the clashes there. I appreciate you coming, taking all the questions. So I'm going to say it respectfully, but clearly,

22:58if that Tom Tillis is right about all those problems, why didn't Tom Tillis stop any of those nominations? As you know, you confirmed all of them. In the book, you talk about some regrets. Walk us through that. When you're on a committee of jurisdiction, I put a lot of weight on those members. I wrote a letter to the colleague saying, I'm going to be a presumptive yes, if we have unanimous Republican votes coming out of the committee. The Democrats are looking when a president is standing up his cabinet. Democrats are just dying for that one big visible loss. I mean, people forget that when Matt Gates was put forward, I quietly went to the White House, went to Matt and said, this is not a good idea. You're not going to be successful. My goal was to try and get as many cabinet members in place as quickly as possible for the president. And if I could not find something that was disqualifying on my own, that I felt like I could take to a committee member and commence them, then I'm going to defer to the committee member. That was the hiring decision. Now he's getting his annual evaluation and he's failed. I've hired people that I've fired before.

24:03He has failed. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. The committee gave him the benefit of the doubt. Very few people now, I think know what they know now. I don't think you get a unanimous vote out of the same Senator Arm's Services Committee because he failed to execute. So you wouldn't want hexeth on the job now, correct? Right. And you wouldn't want RFK on the job. Right. And no ms out, but by the end you wouldn't want her on the job. Right. So why not stop any of them when you had the power because I'm arbitrarily making a decision against this unanimous vote of my colleagues in the committees. It's that simple. It was a hiring decision. But then I mean, the argument would be, well, since you voted a conformal, you should be silent right now. I'm not saying anything. No, I don't know. Who's making that argument? Yeah. Well, the point, I mean, the, but that's the, that's the parallel thought. Just double down. Be quiet about it. No, I think everyone can see it. We showed it that you've spoken out more than some of the other members. The thing is, and you know, I keep it real. I don't know if you've ever seen the program. We keep it real. Okay. I don't know if you've read the book. I, I am. I'm quoting from the book. Yeah.

25:05And the book makes this argument, but it also leaves us with sort of two versions of Tom Tillest, the one who's speaking out, but also, and we can put it up goes 95% voting with Trump. 95%. Yeah. Explain. Because I'm a Republican and because most of the policies, I don't have a problem with is very seldom the what it's the how the president has people who have not advised him and the best way to implement some of these, some of these policies. In other cases, like the big, beautiful bill, the healthcare policy was just flawed. I know it was. Yeah, you went against that. So let's talk about two areas where you got results. This revenge probe against the fed chair. You push back on that and it worked. And we showed briefly the payout pod for punks, the mag of fun, the crime fund. What worked there that other senators could do? And why don't more people do it? Because for example, if we don't want our tax dollars being stolen and given to criminals, you use the leverage. And that's a word that comes up repeatedly in the book at that moment. But

26:07most centers aren't doing that at all. Well, you got to be positioned for it. You know, it depends every, you know, the organizing resolution gets established in the beginning. It's consensus between Democrats and Republicans. But then you've got to know what the ratios are. If you're on a committee, if I'm not on a committee, I can't stop a nomination. Then I've got to decide if I'm going to undermine my conference when I've got unanimous vote out of committee. Now, having said that, there have been ones in my committee of jurisdiction that I've halted Ed Martin back before I retired. Yeah. Just when he was coming in, the discussion with Todd Blanchall, ultimately got supported him because he got rid of the payout pot for punks, the 1776 fund. He dealt with, he was absolutely the MVP in de-escalating. They, they, Jay Powell affair. And I felt like those were good faith investments and a relationship that I stand by tonight. And so Donald Trump was wrong in your view to try to abuse the DOJ to shake down the Fed. Oh, I agree.

27:11I, the, the, the 1776 fund and anything related to equivocating on January 6th. Look, the 1776 fund would have literally allowed somebody who played guilty to be hitting a police officer to get restitution. There's nobody in America except for that thug who being a police officer, the thinks that that's a good idea. Yeah. So that's one I was also trying to understand, which is why I'm glad to have you here. On the one hand, you did more to stop that fund than most members of your party fair. On the other hand, we do remember you didn't vote to hold the president accountable at the time of the Senate trial. And he at the time, that's correct. The impeachment Senate trial. Yeah. I want to play a little bit of just because people, a lot of this gets memory hold. And I think you would agree the president and others and Fox News have been caught lying about the crimes of that day. I want to play a little bit of that. Then we'll talk about it from Jan 6th. Go home. We love you. You're very special.

28:23Like all Americans, I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness, and mayhem to those who engage in the acts of violence and destruction. You do not represent our country. And to those who broke the law, you will pay. He said they would pay. He lied. As you know, he freed every last one of them. The sedition is the ones who attacked police, the worst of the worst, knowing that now should the Senate have held him accountable through the trial where you voted to quit. Not through what trial was there. I mean, there was no counsel. There were no witnesses. It was a vote of no competent. If they had gone and spent the time that historically, you spend with something as weighty as impeaching the president of the United States, maybe they could have convinced me. But that was, it was a snap impeachment. Go back and look at the course of history. You've never seen a president dealt with that way. And if you do it with him, while on earth does anybody think

29:24when Republicans could impeach a Democratic president without any witness, without any opportunity to actually rebut the allegations against them, that was what that was. Let's talk about it. There's argument against that, which is so how do you how do it once you do it that way? The whole premise of my book is until both parties recognize that they are responsible for this escalation, beginning with Obama up to Trump too, then you're only going to find elections taking one party out of power putting another one in and they will justify their abort behavior based upon the behavior of the prior administration. And so on and so forth, the argument controls conveniently forget about crossfire hurricane, Lois Larner, the steel dossier, right? And they only think the Republicans are the purview of vindictive prosecutions. I'm one of the few people who have consistently called them both out. How many Democrats have come on here and talked about the atrocity of Lois Larner or of crossfire hurricane or a Biden's perspective, pardance for God's sake.

30:24Well, we're giving you the time. We're giving you the time. I'm going to jump it. We gave you the time. The counter argument to what you say, though, is if a future president of either party is involved in an insurrection, then yes, they could face a fast impeachment and knowing what we know now as a country. And I know you care about it and we on 60 minutes, we're talking about you caring about it and you spoke out against the violence, but knowing what we know now that he freed every last one of them, that he is an anti police, pro violence, pro sedition type president. That's what he did with his power. Knowing that now, would you say, gosh, we should have held him accountable then. Nine months, you went through the right, I am beg on process. And when you start short circling process, you can guarantee the next party will use that as a basis for diminishing it, diminishing it even more sooner or later, we've got to get back to an institutional integrity. Both parties are responsible for the state that we're in today. We've got your answer on that. You also write candidly in the book about the vantage point. The Senate is a small club. And you write candidly about what you see and some of how it goes down. And this was really just

31:28interesting. I think our viewers who follow the news of Friday interesting with Rubio and these other individuals, people can change their mind. But I want to show some of what we heard from Cruz and Rubio and then read from the book. Let's take a look. Donald, you're a sniveling coward and leave Heidi the hell alone. Who could have predicted that the extraordinary Donald Trump would be present? You all have friends that are thinking about voting for Donald Trump. Friends do not let friends vote for con artists. Everything this president does is driven by the American people. That's the change in Rubio's case. He's now potentially a contender to be a nominee or president from your party. You write that after he was confirmed unanimously by the Senate, you texted him a comedy article quote, Senate replaced by a chamber of screaming monkeys telling him that was pretty much what the Senate had been like since he'd left to become Secretary of State. He jokes back actually an improvement. And so on the one hand, ha ha ha. On the other hand, when you look at his about face and Cruz's about face and them going

32:32much farther than you ever did, do you think gosh, we could do better? Is Rubio wrong to eat all his words and go inside and then just support whatever Trump says? And does that make him fit for the big job? Well, the voters are going to decide that. But if we were going to have this subject, I will guarantee you. And to it, I can find an about face for any Democrats who were in a primary either with Obama or in times past. They do the same thing. Sure. And politicians do it. Let's face that. But that's pretty epic. They used words that were probably a little bit more committed than they should have. But everybody does that in political or most people do that in political campaigns. At the end of the day, I think Marco is a good man. He was a great senator. He also has an incredible wit and an encyclopedic knowledge of every sport I've ever heard of. He's just a good man. And so that's a difficult situation right now. Yeah. So it's interesting here. You give that a answer. I assume it to be fourth right. You basically think we are in

33:33normal times and you can compare it to like what Democrats do. I mean, that's, I hear you because we could point out flip-flopping in primaries and rhetoric, of course. Yeah. But in normal times, we don't have a president taken a billion dollars on the side for their family. We don't have no problem with that. And we don't have a president. We're seeing the killing of Americans, which we showed you. Of course, and that again, problem with Hunter Biden monetizing his relationship with this dad. He obviously made money. These are all about degree at the end of the day. Well, you know, the lawyer in me would say, is it degree or is it defendant because Hunter Biden was never president. So if we have to go and if the best counter example is a rando and not a president, I think I'm with you on that. It's absolutely one of the reasons why my office led the effort to get the ethics language in the crypto bill. It's, it's been held. But it was precisely for that. I mean, there are people advising the president. I was, I was a partner of PW and one thing I learned very early at price waterhouse is you figure out where the line is and you step back. There are people waiting into

34:35the gray here. And it's at a minimum, unseemly, but, but it could be illegal and people better be prepared to withstand the test of time. I'm sure questions will come up. Should the chambers change gavils next year? Well, that's helping me understand where you're at, which again, which is why I like having the time. I mean, in the book, you make these arguments, but you're saying today, yes, you can find hypocrisy, surely in both parties. But no, we're not in normal times and we need to stand up to last year with absolutely you have a president who's not worth goes up by a billion dollars. That's worth looking at. I mean, it obviously, it may not be illegal. Probably isn't illegal. I think he's got good attorneys, but it's really bad form is particularly bad form when the Democrats are winning on the affordability message. And we've got somebody who's not worth is going up a billion dollars when those folks in the trailer park that I went and visited last week back in Tennessee where I grew up. They're not feeling like they made a billion dollars last year. And we're losing on that argument. We got to get better at it. We've got to get answer. We've just got to focus on it. Yeah, you mentioned it because at times you said you guys would own rent

35:38and sometimes you were living out trailer park and you say that's part of your upbringing. Beyond red and blue, do you see this widening wealth inequality and the tech money and the moment where and do you see this as something that Washington has really failed to confront compared to how people are struggling? No, I think so. You know, there's always an affordability problem that the problem I had when particularly the president said it's a hoax. There's always an affordability problem always lived it. I've been on the economic bubble. Those folks that I visited last Friday are living on the economic bubble. And I also don't buy this concept that now we're blaming by Biden left us with a bad economy. He left us with an open border. Trump fixed the border and then completely lost the issue with the mismanaged by Nome and we should be owning the issue of border and on immigration reform. We've lost that issue. I hope we get it back. But we've also lost the opportunity to say we've got work to do. We are some of the decisions that we're making are causing the economy to provide us with headwinds. But to ignore it, we do it at our own peril.

36:43The American people are pretty smart people. Most of the time they vote their pocketbook this year. They're going to vote their pocket. All these other things that people are talking about on all the TV shows, I find funny because they're out of it. What do you think is the biggest distraction top economy? It's always. What do you say? The other stuff is what? What do we wait for? We just got all kinds of things that are important to the bubble of politics that people just don't care about. So the final thing though, you write in the book in detail about that healthcare and those cuts was the dividing line for you. 100%. Why was that the dividing line? And when you write about this, but you try to explain to the White House, hey, what? We shouldn't kick as many people have healthcare and they say they don't care. Well, the issue is the house mark. I know a fair about about Medicaid. I was Speaker of the House in North Carolina and cared at that job back in the middle of the fiscal crisis. And so I knew a lot about Medicaid and the drain on the state budgets. The house mark was manageable. It could have been done. It was aggressive, but it could have been done. But somebody in the White House got the wise idea to add another dimension to it called

37:48state directive payments, which almost doubled the economic impact immediately. So in states like North Carolina, this had $2 billion impact over every year for 10 years. That is very difficult to manage even in a state the size and the scope of North Carolina. Oh, I was simply saying is I agree with the in state, but how you're doing it is going to be unsustainable. But and the ads will write themselves. And now the ads are what they do, but the Trump administration's response to you with what? And my and they filing knowledge of the impact assessment was right, but they were moving forward with that. And I told them that this was probably going to be the thing they'll regret the most. Senator, as mentioned, we appreciate you coming by taking all the questions. Yeah, you too. Absolutely. Senator Tom Tillis was here. The book is out this week. How to lose friends and antagonize presidents. You can Google Tom Tillis and pick that up still ahead. We have the free press clash and artists standing up for free speech as the midterms approach will be right back.

39:00I'm president Trump and I approve this ramble. We're getting bold out there, but not for long because I have a solution. If the Republicans win, I'll give everyone $5,000. And that is not a bride because I have no intention of following through on that promise. Senator I live, making Donald Trump the punchline yet again, including the fact that people don't believe him. That was part of that joke as they face midterm pressure. Meanwhile, we also have jokes to talk in the context of pushing back against Trump's efforts to actually crack down, censor people when we think about the right to joke about even powerful politicians. President Trump held a Hispanic Heritage Month event yesterday at the White House. And then later he asked Duolingo what LDablo means. In fact, Trump spent most of his White House visit just pointing it. President Trump just announced that he and all the major

40:03tech leaders have signed an agreement to self-regulate AI. So don't worry about AI. We're fully protected by the honor system. The honor system there you can see this might not seem like some big political resistance, but comedians are allowed to make fun of billionaires and their supposed policies and their relationship with the government. And yet we now live in a country, we were just talking to a Republican Senator about why it's not normal times. We live in a country where the government has actually tried to cancel censor and stop people from that free speech. Jimmy Kimmel really became the biggest example of this because the government in the FCC pushed to get him kicked off there. They failed. His ratings are doing just fine. ABC noting the 25-6 season was actually the most watched in eight years, which is impressive considering that network TV, like a lot of TV continues to face stiffer competition from the internet, but Kimmel surging. There are other

41:04signs of cultural pushback right now. Some of it broad like the No Kings constitutionalism. Some of it quite specific Bruce Springsteen taking that stage Saturday as part of a concert that we streamed here at MSNOW, the power to the people festival. That's just one example. You have Robert DeNiro who's spoken out against Trump for years back in New York giving this impassioned expletive latent speech where he says Donald Trump is a quote coward and he's exercising his free speech right? Whether you like it or not. Donald Trump's press crackdown continues. We can tell you just today while he has followed the court order letting reporters back on the White House ground so he tried to ban that only last days. He's brainstorming other options today. They tried to block political from Air Force One. I'm moved. They've used against CNN, which is part of the broader clash of federal judge, of course, trim their ability to do this kind of press ban blocking

42:06the initial ban of three outlets, which includes MSNOW. They'll be another hearing on that Thursday. So yes, these are not normal times. These are times where the government is trying to quite literally change, distort, censor, or even stop what you hear, whether it's from the more serious newsy outlets or the more funny comedic outlets. He doesn't care which it is. If it's against him, he's going to try to stop it. And we're here to tell you we're going to stay on the case, we're going to follow the courts and you cannot end the First Amendment not that easily, not that swiftly in this country. We'll be right back. Seven million Californians depend on community health clinics for their care, but Proposition 44 cuts billions from clinics. Under 44, hundreds of clinics will close, and health services will be eliminated. That's why Prop 44 is opposed by nurses, doctors, and patients. Vote no on the clinic shutdown proposition. No, on 44. Add paid for by no on

43:07Prop 44. Stop the attack on patients and community health clinics, sponsored by California Primary Care Association Advocates. Add committees top funders ultimate health services and California Primary Care Association Advocates. You know that feeling. Too many updates, too many meetings, too many things falling through the cracks. Monday.com was built for that gap. The AI work platform designed from the ground up for people and agents to work side by side and deliver more together. Drafting the brief, flagging risks, running a competitive scan, your agent can do it all, and the best part anyone can build one. Even you, try it. Create your first Monday agent today at Monday.com. When an intruder approaches a home, they expect a camera. What they don't expect. Stop. This is simply safe. Police are on the way. Using smart AI cameras, live US-based agents help deter intruders in under 30 seconds. Don't just record a break in, stop it from ever happening. Plan starting around a dollar a day. Right now, get 60% off your new system with

44:07professional monitoring at simplysafe.com slash SXM. 30 seconds response time requires monitoring plan with outdoor protection starting at $4,999 a month. Visit simplysafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. The Democrats took control that they would liberate through Republican Party. Because I think the three Republican parties being held hostage by the president. And I think that there are a lot of them that would speak out, but they're afraid of the retaliation of it. There's piles of things that need to be done, but nobody is going to change them. How's the economy here? I can't have my 2013 pickup. Well, 175,000 miles out of it. Look at my old pickup. And you know, the economy is doing. A affordability is real. We heard some voters there. You know, I miss now interviews talking about what they call split ticket voting.

45:08Not that they love the dams, but if the dams had a little bit of leverage, maybe things would go better in Washington. That's just the view from the field. We will keep watching these midterms. Thanks for watching the beat. Seven million Californians depend on community health clinics for their care. But Proposition 44 cuts billions from clinics under 44. Hundreds of clinics will close and health services will be eliminated. That's why Prop 44 is opposed by nurses, doctors, and patients. Vote no on the clinic shutdown proposition. No, on 44. Add paid for by no on Prop 44. Stop the attack on patients and community health clinics sponsored by California Primary Care Association Advocates. Add committee's top funders, ultimate health services, and California Primary Care Association Advocates.