Ghost Wipes, Diet Soda vs. Regular Soda & Should You Avoid Pork, Ham & Bacon? | Ask Me Anything

0:00The following podcast is a deer media production. Hi, I'm Dr. Wilcole. Wellness is a sacred art, and you are the masterpiece. This is the art of being well. What's up and welcome to the art of being well, everybody. This is the latest Ask Me Anything, where you all can send in your health questions, and we'll answer them, and to submit them, you can send them over to SpeakPype.com slash Dr. Wilcole. That's s-p-e-a-k-p-i-p-e.com slash dr-willcole. And leave us a voice message, Gaby. Any health question you have, we get to as many of them as we can in these AMAs. And every Ask Me Anything episode, we have a fun giveaway.

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3:04or get you scheduled to coordinate it for the telehealth support clinical case review. All right, so this first question is from Mary Kate. And what just before you have played this is not a famous Mary Kate. We got that so many times last time because we're like, oh, it's a special question from Mary Kate. This is just a regular Mary Kate. Mary old Mary Kate. Yes, they actually thought they were like even co-workers were like, was it like the Mary Kate? I was like, no, I was like Mary Kate. Is this the same Mary Kate? No, it's a different Mary Kate. So we have multiple Mary Kate. So many Mary Kate. So many Mary Kate. Some Mary Kate. And some not. Yes, but Mary Kate, you're special. Yes, you are. You are God's child, baby. We don't need to be. Baby girl. We love you. You don't need to be famous for us to play your question. Famous in our eyes. Mary Kate. If you can't tell Andrew's very detailed orange. Yeah, I wanted to make sure you knew that. This is regular Mary Kate. No, I knew it was going to come again though. I know it was the last time we worded it. We did word it weird. We were like, oh, this is for Mary Kate.

4:05We were like, we have a really special or interesting question from Mary Kate. It was just the way that we said it made it sound. There was a social media. People were talking about saying the word. And then also co-workers. We had co-workers that were like, is it? Okay, probably Sam. Yeah. Off camera Sam. She's. She's. All right. Is that what we're going to call our off camera Sam? Off camera Sam. She's there. All right. All right. Well, here's from regular Kate. Mary Kate. Hi, Dr. Cole. My name is Mary Kate. I'm an avid listener of the podcast. And I also listened to another popular health and wellness podcast. And this past week there was a guest talking about going number two. And I feel like the goal post gets moved a lot with this. But I've heard you talk about two to three snakes a day. And so while I was listening to this podcast, she said a similar thing. I think she said like one to three times a day were normal. But then she was mentioning that you shouldn't have to do that. You shouldn't have to wipe after you go number two.

5:07Meaning that if you do, you've eaten something that hasn't agreed with you. So I just wanted your perspective on that. I know this is so minuscule. But I just wanted your perspective on that and kind of what you thought about. If you're having to wipe even if you're going two to three times a day, you still are not at a good point with digestion. Thank you. If you didn't know it, you're going to know it now. Your poop is a window into the rest of your house. What are you laughing at? It's a funny question. It isn't quite a question, but are you surprised about our podcast? No, no. We talk about the podcast health. I actually think it's a good question for 16 years. I'm also just thinking about how like I was considering myself because I use it a day every day. It's like, I'll never know. It's okay. So there's a really about you and your bed. Yes, I have a special relationship. My bed. Oh, okay.

6:07All right. Okay. So, I mean, you know, I mean, you can't hang around us around, especially with telehealth issues. We don't talk about poop within five minutes. Oh my gosh. Yes. I failed as a human being. I talk about it even outside of work because people know what I do for work. Yes. I think that's what I mean. Like, I've talked about poop with you for 10 years, Emily. I'm just inappropriate. Okay. About your bed. No, somebody's poop habit. It's about the day. No. I can't help it. No, I actually think it's a good question. It is. I don't think it's going to bring it down. Yeah. So, she mentioned, as I'm often talking about in the show, is that you're a good, look, a frequency information of your bowel movements. Number two, your poops is what? Often on podcasts, I say two to three snakes a day. The shock and horror that comes when I say that, they say two to three. So I do feel like opening it up, say one to three, because it depends on somebody's, how much they're eating their jam or two. Well, I think that that's the thing that we want to point out. One is more common for someone who's maybe eating like an omad diet or two meals a day.

7:11If you're eating three large meals a day plus snacking, I do think it's the two to three. They do. I'm dreaded. I know we're scaling it back because people get freaked out when they hear two to three, but I think most people shouldn't. Because basically we have cultural constipation. I think a lot of people are going through it. And our cultural irritable bowel syndrome and it's IBSC and both emotionally and physically. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of it going there. People are pent up. They are holding on to some things. They are not letting things go and it's showing it. So here's the deal. Here's the hot take. Does does a ghost wipe? Is it a proxy? Is it a good indicator? I told you I can't hold it in. Guys, that's what this call actually. Is that a clinical term or just a? I'm just now I just made it. I'm submitting it to the NHS and IH all UK and the United States.

8:11I'm submitting it. So ghost wipe is the thing and I talk about it actually. Max Lugiver was on Max Lugiver's podcast a little bit like a month ago since you listened to this episode. We've talked about a ghost wipe on a podcast. Go back and listen. I can't remember if it was his or mine or mine on his. We did a pot swap. But we talk about a ghost wipe there. Is a ghost wipe is white going after you go poop wiping is if there's no nothing on the toilet paper. Is that a good sign that you have a good microbiome gut health? Okay. So here's the deal. The answer is yes. The no wiping bit is like a hygiene thing. I don't know if you should be like testing it. I mean like you are failing as a human if you have to wipe it all. But I do think it's a good sign of if we're looking at frequency and formation, the formation piece is if you have little to no wiping and it sinks to the bottom of the toilet. That's a good sign that you have good hydration, good fiber amount, lowered inflammation levels. There's not this mucus component or unformed stool.

9:14And it's a you can assume that because we're talking about formation two to three one to three depending on if you take a more conservative approach or not two to three snakes a day. The formation looks like a snake. That is a good window. Now that here's the catch. You can have incomplete bowel movements and a ghost wipe. And then you at that point then it wouldn't be normalized. So yes, it could be a good proxy. It could be it could be one factor to consider a ghost wipe, but it's not the only thing. Because we see people that have normal formation, but they're going every two to three days. They can go they can go days without it or they're going every day one to three snakes a day or even two, but it's even three four, but it's incomplete. Yeah. You're not fully emptying. So yes, it's one spoke in the good bowel movement wheel, but it's the ghost wipe is, but it's not the totality of it's you to it's multifactorial.

10:15Yeah. And there are people that even have constipation that like those little baby rabbit pellets that maybe not might not be wiping as much or I have it. It's supposed to be like two to three snakes today with the ghost wipe could be a part of that. It's sinking because that's a fat male abortion. Yes. If it's floating, a lot of people have fat male absorption and they're not digesting fat as well. They had their gallbladder removed and no one told them they needed enzymes. Yeah. So we have a lot of variables to consider, but yes, I do think it's one thing because so many people have irritated guts. I could see having a more robust conversation about the ghost wipe. Could be part of it because that bottom will have flamed and flamed irritated guts. So that's the ghost wipe is a rare commodity. I always think of my I think of my kids when you're talking about this because if they eat something that has hurt their stomach and they've gone to the bathroom and they'll come to me because we talk about poop so much that it's talked about at home too. And they'll say and they're young and they'll say, Mom, I had messy poops, right? So and that's but that's like how they think of it that way too of like that it's something

11:17they had to use wipe a lot and handle. Yeah, so they'll tell me that and I'm like, okay, well, let's think about it. What did you eat? I mean, that's a good indicator for your kids too. If they're using a lot of toilet paper and they're if they're having to what like not just your normal kid that's like afraid to not use enough toilet paper, but like they're constantly consistently wiping. That is something to consider. So maybe do a week, two weeks. Sometimes we have telehealth patients do it more, but this is an experiment you all can do on your own is maybe doing a food journal with a poop journal and kind of correlating, oh, when I do this, when it could be food, it could be stressed, it could be a supplement, it could be a medication. What's the correlation between the that day and your frequency information of your bowel movements? So making sure you maybe it's increasing diversity of fibers. Maybe there's certain fibers that irritate your gut and finding fibers that don't that we have telehealth patients have to do low fiber diets for a time while we build resilience and up their fiber because the goal is to have around 25, 30 grams of fiber a day from

12:20diverse plant foods that love your body back. But if the plant foods aren't loving your body back, it doesn't make the plant foods bad. Because your gut's not so resilient. So we have to have that sort of proverbial cast on a stressed out gut to build that resilience over time. And that's where food supplements their pedics, my body practices, stress trauma pieces to calm and support that parasympathetic that resting, digesting state. And then some things we talked about in past asked me anything episodes is that like the squatty potty, maybe it may be a positional thing as far as the pelvic floor is concerned. You can try those poop shoes that we talked about. It's a super high heel platform. Don't do that. I would prefer the squatty potty whenever you're at home or whenever you, again, we talked about the travel squatty potty. That's the niche market that we need to get for people to like, yeah, or you just use the trash cans, the trash can. Oh, yeah, trash can. So we talked about empathic. It's basically just bring your feet up higher, knees up higher. So your pelvic floor and you can have proper gastric emptying for people that would be

13:22mimicking what our ancestors would do biomechanically. And of course, hydration is a paramount. If you're not having that to make up short, upping hydration, electrolytes is a part of that sodium potassium magnesium can be part of that. And then a good, I like a pre-propera postbiotic, I do probiotic trillion from longevity racks. I'll put those like the gut protocol in the show notes as well as probiotic trillion. Both of those are going to be good. So you can get a lot of good health support. Anything else? No, I think you can show an all of it. I throw out all I do. So I mean, I love all of you do. Oh, we love how you do. One of the best things you could do. It was very healing from my own journey. It's so calming, it's so calming to the gut. It's helpful for digestion, building enzymes. It's not only the amount of wear you're on that poop spectrum. It's like calming for someone that has a flared up gut, but also helps with GI motility for someone that's maybe more sluggish to. Beef allergies. You love it.

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17:29Again, that's ABW to 64,000. Agent Data Rates may apply, see terms for details. All right, this one is an anonymous. Hi, Dr. Wilcole. I had a quick question about sugar and sugar alternatives. I know that sugar is not the greatest, especially like added sugars. And when I have the option, I will usually go towards a stevia or like a splendor or some sort of other like artificial sweetener. And I guess I've noticed that sometimes after having like a lot of artificial sweeteners, like I can get like kind of foggy headed or like have some stomach issues. And I guess I'm just wondering what your take on like artificial sweeteners are and if they're a good alternative to sugar or if they also are something that maybe should be used very sparingly. Okay, thanks. Oh, wow. Right out of the gate. Okay. It's so hot.

18:32The hot take is so hot. She can't even. No, but wait, she can't wait. No, it's one of my biggest pet peeves. The sugar snobbery. I would call it snobbery. I would call it two birds in cancer and neurologically great question though because. Yeah, she said I heard about it. Yeah, yeah, she's going hard. We have Judge Andrea over here. I like my wife's cancer. Okay. I'm calling it a cancer at early death. Oh my gosh. Why? Like there's commercials after they tell you what they take this. You're like the person that told my brother when my brother was sick one time, he was out of party drinking a diet coke and someone looked at him and was like, did you know that can cause cancer? Meanwhile, he's like in the middle of chemo. No, it's shame. Good thing he has to say to you, but I mean, I wouldn't say it. I just would think it. Okay, but here, this is a great question because I have seen, I don't know if it's like a trend, but I have seen videos of people who said they've gone down the rabbit hole so far with health that now they're back to drinking diet coke again. Yeah, it's like the real health.

19:33Yes. Yes. So I think it's good to clarify for everybody. The real, like it goes from like the average American to like an obsessive, compulsive biohacker to like the 90 year old Italian guy eating spaghetti and drinking wine and walking. Exactly. Exactly. That's the full trajectory of wellness, demigod, how bad is it for you? Okay. Let's settle the record, set the record straight, settle it once in for all the sugar, myths and truths. We have splendour. We have with splendour, which is, we have saccharine, which is sweet and low. We have equal, which is aspartane. We have stevia, which is all the different brands of stevia, right? And then I'm out. He loves the monk food. I want to break it all down for you. So this is one stop sugar shop. Yes. The good, the bad, the ugly and everything in between. So there's going to be good, better or bad, good, better, best, right? It's not one in all. It's not one size fits all. And there's a lot of bioindividuality to this as far as the research is concerned, as you would imagine.

20:33And we see this clinically as well. So here's the good of these low carb sugar-free sweeteners. Well, they decrease sugar consumption. Most Americans are consuming way too much added process sugar, not in whole food form, bound by fiber, I think fruits or a star-tip vegetable or a grain or a legume or something like that. That may have some bearing degrees of nutrition benefits, but they're not having that. It's grams of added sugar. And that's, I mean, the recent dietary guidelines restricted that a bit more, called it out. It should be called out. It is a problem. And I think everybody should do a sugar audit. Do it for a week. Do it for two weeks. Do it for a month, whatever. What does a week in the life look like for you? Just you can use an app like crannometer or my fitness pal or just look at the label. Anything that's not a whole food, look at the grams of added sugar. And you may be shocked. You're probably going to be shocked about how many you have. I think the dietary allowance for people is around 25 grams.

21:36I think it's around that, which is still a lot in my opinion, added sugar. A day. Yeah, let me fact. 25 grams of sugar a day, like added, not like from fruit and like vegetable. But like 25 grams of adage, that's insane. Well, let me look. This is public health. This is just like, yeah, this is for, oh, actually for adults, the FDA dietary guidelines is at 50 grams a day. Yeah. I'm sorry. And she's getting heated. And that's, I mean, that's a lot. Wait, is that included for kids? And like for kids, it was the 25 grams. So I got the kids right. It was for 25 grams for kids, which I was looking at that day, they're talking to somebody. It's 50 grams for adults. And that was them like calling it out and calling it into questions more, the more recent, eat real food initiative from the dietary guidelines. You know what I mean? The DG, the FDA and the USDA. Here, here's my take on it. So the low carb sweeteners helps that because you're not having sugar.

22:36And but the question is, do these artificial or low carb sweeteners, and let me delineate the difference between the two. Stevia, monk fruit, allelose, are low carb sweeteners, sugar-free alternatives, but they're not artificial in the sense that in the same category that a saccharin, a sucralose or an asperateame is. Yeah. They're all low carb sweeteners. They all are processed to varying degrees to be very transparent. Sugar-lose is an organocloride, so that what's in Splenda is technically, yeah, it's like that. But it's a chemical compound that's highly extracted and isolated to be a low carb. It's entirely different than growing a stevia plant and then getting something like Splendid. So chemically processed. Oh, yes. And then I forgot the sugar alcohol. So Zylitol, yeah. Or the tall. Yeah. So there's, you have to include those in the conversation too. Those are sugar alcohols, more, quote unquote, natural, but still processed and not found

23:39in nature in high amounts. So to answer his point, a stevia plant or stevia is a plant that is sweet that is you can technically grow it and grind it. I have. I have grown it. Of course she has. Of course she has. You've grown it and you didn't give me any? I killed it. Oh. Okay. So we tried to grow it. But you can go to a health food store and get green powdered stevia. So there was a landmark 2022 study was published in cell, I believe randomized control trial was which is the gold standard in science and research is concerned. 120 adults. They gave different types of these low carb sweeteners like saccharins, sucralose, aspertame, stevia at doses below you would normally get just to see what change you would this have on the microbiome as well as blood sugar regulation. And what they found was the more natural, the more artificial, all low carb sweeteners,

24:42all four of them changed the microbiome and changed the blood metabolites, but in different unique ways and more maybe surprising for people. All different people responded all different types of ways. We all have different bio individual microbiomes. The ones that impacted blood sugar, the most negative were the aspertame, the saccharin, the sucralose, the more artificial things. Now is it the end of the world for some people they're going to have it here and there? My opinion is no. Do I think it's better than sugar? I don't. I think if you have metabolic problems, probably, it's probably better than sugar. But it's do what I recommend it as a health food that you have continually ongoing in your life. No. But if you have insulin resistance, test it for yourself. Don't take my word for it. Where is CGM? And see how does that impact your blood sugar? Now your health is more complex than just does something like your blood sugar or not.

25:43What's the long term effect on the gut microbiome? That is a concern for me as somebody that looks at gut health labs all day long. The most shocking part of this 2022 randomized controlled trial is when they gave the human feces, the human poop sample to sterile mice, the same microbiome changes were found in the mice. It's kind of rules out the sort of correlation causation sort of component. Is that, yeah, this sweetener actually will cause the same change in the mice as well. So that just shows you the feedback that the foods we eat, not just these sweeteners, but all food constantly and dynamically is influencing your gut, which is 75% of your immune system, inflammation, the product, the immune system impacts your brain and your mood and your skin and hormones, all the different things. Your gut is profoundly influential more than just digestive health. It is a long term or a long far reaching implications of that. And there was, yeah. And I will say this too.

26:44Basically, we utilize stevia as a plant medicine. And why do we, is a biofilm disruptor and actually as anti-microbial? So what I want somebody to be having high doses of that and having all these stevia sweeten things all day long, no, because it could definitely be impacting the gut in negative ways. So small doses, microdoses of something like stevia in a higher quality source, great. But we use it for people to have mold and chronic Lyme and CBO and these pathogenic problems because it breaks, that's a natural biofilm disruptor. So it breaks it down so anti-microbials can come in herbal antimicrobials to help to kill these things off. So it is a thing. But look, you could imagine that, okay, someone's sweetening with a biofilm disruptor all day is going to have potentially negative disruptive effects, even if it's quote unquote more natural like stevia on the gut long term. So use judiciously and conservatively and everybody's different too, as far as their bodies

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30:55They smart out there, take control of your data, and keep your private life private by signing up for DeleteMe. Now at a special discount for the art of being well listeners, get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to joindeleteMe.com slash ABW and use promo code ABW at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to joindeleteMe.com slash ABW, enter code ABW at checkout. That's joindeleteMe.com slash ABW code ABW. Yeah, let me ask you a question. If I had someone, and we're applying the 80-20 role, I hear this all the time. I hear this with younger generation that I hang out with at church and I see this because they're all about their Diet Coke. I know this is pretty. I think it's what that swig that made this. All those pop-a-dirty soda stuff. I see this Diet Coke all the time. If someone's doing the 80-20 role, there's someone who maybe isn't met at the time, metabolically unhealthy, but they're just living a normal life.

31:58They're eating real-whole foods, missed at the time. They're doing things that I would consider sustainable. They're making sure they're prioritizing protein. Let's just take a healthy person that's doing an 80-20. If they were going to ask me, if they were going to drink something once a week that was like a treat for themselves, would I recommend the Coke or the Diet Coke? The Coke. I'm going to recommend the Coke. Yeah. Like a regular version of it, not the Diet version of it. I don't know how I feel about it. I think sugar is a massive problem. People have way more grammar. But I'm talking about it. I agree. If you're actually looking at it. I'm saying that if you're looking at what we would call peak performance, they're doing everything well. It's like picking between someone going crack or math. It's like, it's to me. Sugar impacts you metabolically. What are official sweeteners have more impact than metabolically? I mean, we're talking that we know that they are linked to cancer.

33:02So it has added process sugar. Yeah, but that is excessive amounts is what I'm saying. You could say the same thing for the artificial sweeteners. Like the corn syrup. I think that the natural community was overcorrecting in their demonization of artificial sweeteners because it's more less quote unquote natural. But I think so much of it is like what the United States have a problem with. It's massive metabolic problems too. So I don't know. Well, Tim, we have massive metabolic problems and people are still drinking diet products. Yeah. Well, and that is a take. I'm not advocating for low carb like sweeteners that are these artificial sweeteners. I do think when you have something that's zero calories but is sweet, it's going to mess up your whole gut brain access feedback loop of like probably craving more foods. So could there be a caloric surplus for somebody's depending too much on these artificial sweeteners? You know, you could be, you're not going to circumvent nature in that way.

34:02If you sort of, oh, it's something sweet but has zero calories and does, you know, and you know, we know even if it's zero grams of sugar that's according to this 2022 randomized control trial, it still can have a negative effect on your blood sugar through the gut inflammatory sort of modulation of things. So I don't want to come to me like, I'm not like team aspartame, but I do think that it's like, I know, I wouldn't be so quick to be like, well, if someone's having that randomly, that random diet soda or the random, so I'm not saying that one or the, I'm not saying that that is what I'm like advocating for. But I'm saying though, as if you looked at the two for someone that was going to treat themselves one time a week, what would you suggest? That's a tough, that's a tough answer. But I, I tend to agree with where you stand. I think, yeah, I guess it just depends. Well, and I think it's probably good better best too because like aspartame is known as

35:04a possible carcinogen. Aspartame is. Yeah. But that's not too close. You're right. Well, you don't mean it's not. And especially because so many of these sodas have like the high fructose corn syrup, like there's so many other additives that we're thinking of too. Like, there are, what do they say? The Mexican colas, the best one. Yes, it's just the regular sugar. Like, yes, just cane sugar, correct. Correct. We've even found some, was it it when we were in Greece? We found it with stevia. Yeah. Then we found it with stevia. I mean, there are definitely better options. Yeah, so I would even say like, if I had to pick, if someone's aspartame or sucralose, it would be equal or spun out. Yeah, spun out. I would say go for the spondo over that because it's going to be, it's not a known carcinogen, which aspartame is. Yeah. Right. Now, the argument for the aspartame, if you know, lovers is that well, it's small amount and like what the, yeah, the same people are saying it's a small, I'm seeing them crush seven diet coaxen two days. Right. Like, these are the same people. It's low calorie. It's low, you know, like they're like, it's low sugar.

36:06It's really close to the low carb brands are going for sucralose now, right? I see. I don't probably to even know. I don't probably say more of that. My personal opinion, because here's the thing, if we think about these diet coke drinkers or soda drinkers, most of the time they're drinking something every day, not once a week, right? And that was my point. I call you out, but I mean, I know, I know they are. Okay, I love you guys so. And if you, if I'm going to say if you're going to do it, I would say stevia would be my preferred choice. Now, obviously, like we said, it can cause some gut issues. I say monk fruit would probably be my top, but you're not going to see that as a good. Monk fruit is so hard to find by itself. It's always with a, a worth for tall. Yeah. And I feel like, I don't know. Monk fruit, aloe, stevia, blend is a lot of the combinations of these will get like the best sweet combination for people. I think pragmatically, pragmatically, that's going to be the best. You know what? Maybe get some honey. I get some honey. Yeah. I was going to say at the end of the day, I mean, if I, if I could have refined a, a, a,

37:09no, I'm not saying you have to do it yourself. You have to make your own Coke. I've never tried one. I'm never tried one. But, okay. Yeah. I'm, I'm a stevia person. I love our stevia. And I don't use it. I don't use it in high amounts. You'll see it in the shot protocol. We use it therapeutically. We use it therapeutically, but it is sweet. Yeah. It's a therapeutic is like 20 drops two times a day. We're talking like I made some fresh squeeze lemonade and put two to three drops. Yeah. And I use that as, as a sweetener at home. That's what would be my choice. But if I'm going to sweet my coffee, if I'm going to sweet my tea, honey maple syrup, it's honey maple syrup. Yeah. You get Manuka honey has MGO supports your gut health, supports your immune system. It's not low carb. It can impact your blood sugar. So everybody's different there, but we're not having, I mean, you don't need full blood. And to eat that much honey, I mean, that's overly sweet. Yeah. The teaspoon goes a long way. Yeah. So we're still a bit of a house divided on the cook versus die cook, but. Now, don't take some clip from here and say, Dr. Will Cole recommended.

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41:24We have a one more question and this is also an anonymous question. Lots of anonymous. Hi Dr. Cole, Andrea and Emily. I have a question today about pork. Do you guys consume it and do you consider it safe to consume? So I stopped eating pork for a while because I heard all these scary stories online about like, tricking noses and people getting parasitic infections and then wasting away because it was so bad. But then I realized I should probably make the decision to eat pork or not eat pork based on evidence and not scary stories online. So I want to know, do you guys believe it is generally safe to consume a pasture-raised, organic, pork? Does it come with any risks of parasitic infections or toxin exposures? And if you're doing it safe, should we be doing the standard recommendations of freezing it for two weeks before you eat it, cooking it to a certain temperature? And where does it fit in a whole foods and such really inspired diet?

42:24Should we be eating it more often or less often? So thank you guys so much for answering this question and I hope you guys have a great day. She sounded so sweet. She did. So let's talk about it. Well, what is our take on the pigs? Do you eat pork? Do we not eat pork? What is our take on the pigs? Is it bacon, good bad or not? So let's get into this. So some people in the health community will talk about it for different reasons and different perspectives. There's a lot of different viewpoints on this. Do you eat it? It's just tied into a group. Viewpoint within the health, natural health community that talks about biblical eating, like in Leviticus or Deuteronomy, it talks about the split hoof that doesn't chew its cut. The Bible Old Testament talks about unclean animals and pigs being one of them.

43:24And you think maybe you're never heard this conversation, but that's a conversation in the health community. Is that the sort of idea of biblical eating? I wrote a book with Dr. Josh Axe. He wrote a book called Bibliodite with our friend Jordan Rubin about this at length. They discussed this. I talked about this with Jordan Rubin on the podcast. We can put it in the show notes. We talk about it at length from a health and a biblical perspective. People that are interested in that. So what's my take? Their argument against it when you have that perspective is that it's unclean that they'll say things like the pet the pig doesn't have sweat glands. So it keeps all the toxins in. It'll say the pigs are gross. They will eat anything. They're sort of the garth, the trash can of the farm. And they're giving all these modern reasons why the Bible could be calling it unclean and we shouldn't be consuming it. And then they will talk about things like she mentioned trick and yellow like around worm or the pork tapeworm or things like your city and sound manila these bacterial problems.

44:28So is it true? Should you be avoiding pork and bacon? Like it is the plague because it'll cause it'll cause these problems. Well, she touched on things that I have a measured approach about this and I'll talk about all the nuances and context around this. One is that with the freezing and the cooking today, it's not a problem. And to say that well pigs don't sweat so talks and stay in the meat. God made the kidneys and the liver is detoxed. It's just a different animal. Fish don't sweat either. How do you know? Yeah, I mean, maybe. Sam and Svet. Sam and Sberham is a thing. I don't know how to swim. You asked the fish. Yeah. Hard day. I go over town that Sam and it just stressed and gills literally. So. I just picture it like, you know, like the Sam and migration where they're trying to get upstream and there's like bear today's thing. Yeah, sure. Sweating if it's possible. If anything to sweat, it's going to Sam and going upstream. I'd be sweating. And that bear, the grizzly bear, how to dodge that mouth. So like grabbing you in the air. If anyone needed sweat glands, it was a Sam and swimming, swimming upstream.

45:31So here's the deal about that is that I don't think that like no sweat glands equals bad. Don't have it. I think the context around if you want to talk about the Bible specifically, specifically, it was a time for a people. Set apart for biblical reasons and they were different than the other tribes around them. They were set up set apart. I mean, there's not to say that this is relevance here, but sometimes they would use certain meat for sacrifices. So animals and for pagan rituals that they wouldn't use and they didn't have refrigeration and high temperature cooking. So they were, it was like a health advice that was common sense for the Israelites of that time. Yes. There's lots of things that the modern person isn't, isn't doing that's in the Old Testament. Now, could there be some spiritual metaphysical component and you have a conviction for that then do that. But don't go on saying like you're going to get worms because lots of animals can have worms. We talked about fish worms on the podcast before. Oh, fish. Lice can get worms.

46:31Fish have lice. I mean, there's lots of gross stuff and people can get bad bugs from lettuce this past summer. They came from lettuce. Oh, yeah. So to say that this is like unclean, I think this more about the context of the animal. Is it pasture raised? Is it organic? Did it have a good life? Or is it eating? Yeah. And pigs will eat anything. They'll eat other pigs. They'll eat decomposed carcasses. I was just going to say how many like mystery murders is it? Like they're on a pig farm and they like they've chewed out the bone. But that's disgusting. It's true. Like swill fed like swill is like basically the slop of that NFL. It'll eat it all including decomposed humans in a crime show that you've watched. But clearly watched too much TV. So you're watching too much TV. And expecting their meat that's that's freezing this that you're cooking it. I don't think it's a problem unless you have a spiritual their faith religious conviction.

47:32And we have many people of a certain faith that ecosher. And that's a different story. Yeah. Yeah. Like we're not changing them saying don't be kosher. It's just from a clinical nutrition standpoint. And then especially looking at cost and accessibility of things or personal preference. I'm a pragmatist with this. And do I think it should be the bulk of your food not necessarily but not from like a unclean standpoint but from a like a. Even like the neutral. Yeah. And process means it's going to be healthy either. So if you think about bacon like you shouldn't make the bulk of your meat to be bacon. Well, it's not even really that much protein. Right. Exactly. You're not even getting that much protein. So don't kid yourself. Yeah. We all love the world likes bacon. Yeah. I like bacon. But they like bacon too. We know it. We know it. They put it in their food logs. I will eat bacon. That is one of the universal things that we see. It's the United Nations of meat. Yes. So that's my take on it. Do you like it? Do I eat it? No, but I just don't like it. I don't like it.

48:32I'd rather have beef bacon grass fed beef. See, from bacon standpoint, I do like the pork bacon. I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like pork either. I'd rather have beef bacon grass fed beef. See, from bacon standpoint, I do like the pork bacon. I don't want a turkey bacon that doesn't taste like regular bacon to me. Yeah, beef. I see I like turkey bacon, but I think beef bacon is nasty. It's nasty. Oh, really? It's dry. It's dry. It's like too chewy and dry. But I like turkey bacon. It has more protein in it. I didn't eat it. Pork. No. Oh, ham? No, I'm not a pork girl. I didn't eat it. I'm not a ham person either. I like lunch, a like, apple gate ham. I do eat that on occasion. And I do, I am, and I actually enjoy it. Like my grant, I'm growing up. Grant, my grandma would always make ham and cabbage soup. Like, yeah. I wouldn't say it was a staple, but it was definitely something I'll eat. And I like, I don't, I absolutely hate pork chops. Wait me too. Me too. I have like, I actually like, discuss around a pork chop.

49:33And Alan loves them. My husband loves them. He can do it. Literally. But I don't think I've ever had a pork chop in my life. The context though is important because I mean, the Bible even said, said to use wine for some of your ailments, not just water, but obviously because the water may not have been cleaned. Right. But we're not still telling people to drink wine for their ailments today. For some people are. Some people probably, and they end up in AA. Yes. No, they're saying they're passed out drunk underneath their like, okay, because so it's like, it's context is important there. So yes, I agree with you. I think we don't tell people it should be the bulk of their diet, but I would say there's clinical reasons for it. Yeah. Because process meat conversations actually more important here. Yeah. Like what, relying too many, much on processed lunch meats that may be pork or something else. Well, hi, and nitrates and nitrates. Yeah. And all the other added sense of the process meat is conflated in the study now epidemiological study. But the studies that are done that does do suss out between non processed meats and more,

50:36like less processed meat, like a grass fed steak versus a bacon. There are studies that show that yeah, that grass fed steak is going to behave very differently over time versus a diet that's bulk in these more, that's predominantly these more processed meats on the gut microbiome and these compounds that could be made that are carcinogenic over time that are not good. So nutrient density, the quality matters here. Yeah. And again, frequency. I don't know many people who eat pork like regularly. They're like, even if you look at like the recipes, maybe I'm just not being fed that on my algorithm or things like that because I don't eat it, but it's not like a staple thing that I'll see. Sometimes I'll use ground pork mixed with ground beef to make sausage. Mm-hmm. So I do do that. I do do that. Because it's a little bit fattier. So it makes it less dry. But I would never eat it in our house. I don't know what it is. My wife's like a recovering vegan. I was plant-based for many years. I don't know why. I get behind a steak. I just know appeal. I don't know.

51:37Yeah. We have ham on holidays. I have ham lunch meat for the kids. I have bacon probably every other week. We eat more sausage and I maybe do ground pork a few times a year. So I would say it's not even one tenth of my diet. Yeah. But none of this is like based on like we're fearing it. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's a taste of reference. I don't want to work out. I'm very clear for this person asking this anonymous. We love you anonymous. But why? It's not like a this you're going to get worms. No. This is not like you're going to you're going to you're going to get toxins because the pig doesn't sweat. This is the quality of the meat matters, but that applies to every animal. And if like you know, hopefully we made the point clear there. Yeah. And bacon is not a source of protein. Just. But do not put that on your food log if you're a client that is listening. Do not put bacon as your protein source for your breakfast. Going back to that sugar audit we did maybe do proteins, fats, carbs like every breakfast lunch and dinner and drinks and snacks and look and see people should be surprised.

52:41Yeah. It's like grams of how many added grams about it sugar like the first question, the second first question that we talked about one of the first second question. No. The second one. It was first sugar second. Yeah. The second question. And then yeah, also look at the fats and proteins that what's the cut of the meat or the bacon is not going to provide that much protein. Might also be much of my mom made horrible pork chop trying up. Yeah. Was that where they overly dry and soaked in a Thai and dry manner? Was that just my. My ass. I was also. I think we actually all me and my siblings all talk about this and I think it is perfectly why we don't have. That's a very common thing. People either have nostalgic. It's like, oh, you said the ham in the way you're handling it. It reminds me of grandma. Yes. And then the pork chop. I'm almost ruined the pork chop. Ruin it for me. Like it was literally, I don't think that happened to me. My mom's a really good cook though. So, I have one last question to wrap us up here.

53:43If you were presented with pork not bacon pork, pork or a Coca Cola, what are you choosing? Pork. But not because I wanted it. But because I have given to horrible choices. A pork chop or a Coca Cola or a Coca Cola. I'm just a pork. Yeah. Why would we advocate for Coca Cola? I'm not. I'm a side to end the question. Well, I think we need to be comparatively like, okay. Pork or Diet Coke for you. No. Well, okay. Coke or Diet Coke, which one are you having? Why are we going back to this? Because I'm asking. I'm just going to go. I would say Coke for myself because I hate the taste of the Asperer team. Okay. Yeah, it's so gross. What about you? Coke or Diet Coke? Okay. I would pick Coke too. Now, would you pick like Turkey bacon or pork bacon? Well, pork bacon, 100%. Okay. Turkey bacon is a cheap imitation. I'm sorry, that Turkey was never meant to make bacon. Oh, I like Turkey bacon. Is that what you would pick up for pork bacon?

54:43Oh, I think. I think I want to do Apple's Apple this way. Okay. I probably, I think I would, I like both of them, but maybe just the regular pork or pork bacon. I would pick pork bacon. That would be my, that would be my preference. Wait, did we all agree on all three of those things? Yeah, I did. Oh, yeah. And you know what I was saying myself, because it didn't even like the taste of diet. Some people like the taste over the record. Yes, Sam does. She's like, I'm saving off camera Sam likes. I, I hear people tell what is the way they describe it. I see this all the time. People with their pebble ice machines and their diet coke and then they add like coconut cream or now. I'm like, that is like diabetes waiting to happen. It just seems really bad. You have to get going, but I, before you go, you went to out west and you went to this, can you give us the, the, I did go to a swig. You went to a swig, which is famous because of, yeah, with a show. Yeah, the secret lives of Mormon was.

55:44Yes, which I know demeaned from that show. That's the demeaned. She questions the question. Yeah, no, we went to a swig where that's like known for like the dirty sodas and I mean, the menu is so. I want a dirty soda. So does when you take any base of soda. So it could be Dr. Pepper, it could be a coke Pepsi, Mountain Dew, whatever you want. It could be a sparkling water, which I did get. It was great. And then you, they have them like pre-made orders or you can make your own where you put whatever flavor like syrup, like how you would in a coffee or you put like flavor creamers or they have like fruit purée and you basically make like a dirty soda, which is just like a blended. But normally a dirty is like alcohol involved, right? But it's not like that. But not in this. No, actually, I think the reason they say this, because if you actually see it, but when you say dirty martini, what is that? A dirty martini just has like extra olive juice. Oh, right. So it's like never mind. It's like, no, this is not on the whole like it's not a virgin, but it's not virgin. Yeah, I know. And so I get the form of own business. So definitely not alcoholic.

56:46And so I knew it wasn't alcoholic. So if I had to guess, I think it's because if you actually have it in a clear glass, when you see it, it's like the sharp color and then you add the cream and it becomes cloudy. So I think that's why they call it a dirty soda. But yeah, I don't get me started on the sort of look. I love some of my best friends growing up or LDS Mormons, but I think they've lost the plot on that because Joseph Smith talked about in the 1800s not to have coffee because you didn't have soda around. And it's like, well, they're so linguistic, but they go, they'll have mountain dew, not coffee. It's wild. It's a wild. Like warm drinks, not warm drinks. And they saw many more. Containers. When I tell you people were walking out with like 44 ounces of soda, I think my blown the intent of yeah, because it's supposed to be a whole food diet. I mean, I was going to be saying with the religious context of the Old Testament. It's like, you missed the heart and the spirit of what? Yeah, we didn't have refrigeration back. Joseph Smith talked about don't have coffee. He was talking about like a dependence or like being whatever, whatever reason he had, then they circumvent and work around these sort of legalistic views.

57:46Oh, I've mountain dew instead. Yeah. And then I'm going to load it with Maraschino cherries and coconut cream and like 76 grams of sugar. LDS and they will say, hey, actually, but they're into health. And they'll say now like they're missing the point. They won't have the soda or the coffee. But it was right next to the end and out too. So it's just thought, you know, you have the end and out. You have the swag. You got to stop at the swag after you go to the end and out. Yeah. Would you know we went in and out like five times? Yes. That's easy to do with kids. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. What did you get in and out? Oh my gosh. Double, double, double animal style protein style. That's a lettuce wrap version, right? Yeah. I'm still like in it. Oh, with the chopped chilies. That was new to me. I got the chopped chilies. So that was the thing. And then I did try the, tell me you live on the East Coast. What's the onion wrap? The Dutch, the flying Dutchman. Oh, yes. Where they do the grilled on. Yes. Instead of the bun, I tried one of those. That was messy but delicious. Hey, look, see 80, 20 here. Renaction. There you go. She made it.

58:47She made it and that happened. Guys, great show. If you wanted to learn more about our work, all the free stuff we have, tons of free resources, all the notes from today's episode at drwilkool.com. We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening to the art of being well. You can support the show by subscribing to at drwilkool on YouTube, where you can watch full episodes. And if you haven't already, please leave a five star review here and share your favorite episodes with a friend. New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. To learn more about everything we've talked about in this and every episode, head to drwilkool.com slash podcast. I'll be back again next time and I hope you will too. Talk soon. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or

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