FULL EPISODE: The Super Time Halfbowl - October 1, 2026

0:00Welcome back, Frick and Frick. Welcome to the Jungle, ABC Wednesday. Abbott is back. It's gonna be the best year yet. Thank you. Now we can finally turn this up. And everyone's going wild. You don't think you run this school. But you got it. It's going great. Abbott Elementary. Anything can happen in the Jungle. Frick, guys. Season premiere Wednesday on ABC and stream next day on Hulu. Fall never arrives all at once. Verse the air. Then the light. And slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress. A hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer. Until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross. The End

1:00Brilliant minds. Ridiculous questions. Uncovering the latest scientific breakthroughs. And the awkward reality of human relationships. Direct from the experts. The world's first high intellect, low pressure, radio and podcast experience. This is The Last Show with David Cooper. Welcome in. Here's what's coming up on The Last Show tonight. Getting older. Your hair goes gray. Your priorities change. And suddenly Bob from Accounting is looking pretty good. Halfway through the hour, aging gracefully. What actually gets better with age? And why some long marriages and right around retirement? It's a phenomenon called gray divorce. Then after that, the most important award there is. Not the Nobel for physics, but people magazines, sexiest man alive award. Yeah, we'll get into that stupidity next hour.

2:00Okay, lots to cover. Let's dive in. You bred an email, even a text from someone you're dating and thought, hang on, did this person actually write this? What about LinkedIn posts? My goodness, come on. That strange feeling that you get when you're not sure the person you're talking to is all there. Because they took that shortcut and asked Chad GPT to write back to you. But it's bigger than that. What about when authors lie? Blogs that we read. What about when their AI generated op-eds? Is anyone writing anything on their own anymore? Well, I am here with someone who used an AI detector for a month and what they found out from their peers' dates, even their heroes, horrified them. I'm here with Aki Ito, a chief correspondent at Business Insider. Aki, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks so much for having me again. This is such a great topic. What possessed you to basically snoop on everyone you know and all of their writing to see if they were using AI behind the scenes? You know, honestly, I think it was just this like,

3:01almost a compulsive sense of curiosity. I just found myself asking myself pretty much all the time, like, did AI write this as I was just going about in my life. And you know, I found out about this tool called PanGram, which is the leading AI detection tool on the market. And these tools were pretty bad for a long time. And so I guess I hadn't realized how good they've become. PanGram claims to be 99.7% accurate against all of the major models. And so I was like, okay, like, maybe I can come up with a story. That will allow me to expense my $20 per month subscription to PanGram. So that was the real inspiration. Can I get a free subscription from my employer? No, no, before you did this, did you think you were good at spotting AI writing? Because I think I am. I know that I'm probably not. But there's some tells for me the dreaded M-dash is one of them.

4:02For sure. The phrase quietly or the like quietly reshaping. I feel like every AI article quietly reshapes everything. But there's these little tells that we think mean someone use AI. But in fact, it might not be true. Did you think you were good at it? I did think I was good at it. And I will continue to claim that I'm good at it, even though most studies show that people are really bad at spotting AI. It does seem that there are some exceptions. I think there was one study where if you were really familiar with these LLMs, and what they produce, then in that case, you might be a little bit better than chance at spotting AI. But for the most part, people are really bad spotters. And it's funny because when you look at a lot of these studies, people often say that they prefer the AI's version over the human version

5:02if they don't know which is which, if they're given this blind taste test. But as soon as they find out it's AI, they immediately judge their peer, even though they might be using it themselves, I think is what one study, study, study as well. Okay, so you thought you knew the tells. You're armed with this tool that claims to have a very, very good ability to detect this stuff. When you started applying it to the writing around you, what did you end up finding? Yeah, I mean, I guess the thing I found was that a lot of people use AI for their writing now, which maybe wasn't that much of a surprise, but I guess just being able to see it so quickly as I was going about on the internet was really interesting. For example, Pangram has this Chrome plugin, where if you download it and you're on a social media site, LinkedIn, every post shows up with this label of AI, human, or mixed. It's when there's a combination of human written and AI generated text.

6:07So that was just super interesting, scrolling through my feed, and then going to different people's profiles, and having Pangram ingest all of their posts, and seeing who was a heavy user, and who was not a user. And I found myself judging a lot of these AI users for sure. So before AI, like YouTube, comments in YouTube, for whatever reason attracted the worst of the worst, comments on Reddit wouldn't be quite as bad. What is it with certain platforms? In this case, LinkedIn attracting the AI Slop of AI Slop. Like the Slop apocalypse seems to have come to LinkedIn posts first. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think part of it is because LinkedIn is this professional networking site, and we're already using AI so much in our work. So I think that's part of it. I think another part is a lot of people post on LinkedIn, not because they want to necessarily, but because they're trying to get a job,

7:09or they're trying to promote their own personal, quote-unquote, brand of themselves, as a let's say like a software engineer or a marketer or something. And so there's kind of this like already like performative, you know, an authentic aspect to it. So maybe like that idea of like using AI to do this thing, like nobody really wants to do it anyway, makes a little bit more sense than on a site like Reddit, you know, where you're just like genuinely engaging in things. Fair enough. You're not really there to promote yourself. During this experiment, were there places where people use AI that surprised you? And yes, I'm team you up to answer a question about a breakup text that you analyzed. Yeah, so like, you know, as I was going about my experiment, at first it was just kind of fun. Like, you know, I compare it to waking up with a new superpower that could tell me who had gotten Botox.

8:09So it's kind of this like caddy, judgy thing that's also really fun and gives me this new way of seeing the world. But then after a little bit, I remember this, you know, breakup text that I received from somebody I was very briefly dating at the end of last year. And when I'd received that text even in the moment, I had this inkling of like, oh, did this person use AI for this? There were two M dashes in the text and, you know, it just didn't sound like anything like her. And so, you know, I kind of, I guess I had that suspicion but I didn't really have a way to check it. And now that I was going about using pain-gram for about a month, I suddenly had this way to check it. So I put the text into pain-gram and it came out as 100% AI generated. Very quickly, what went through your head when you thought that? Were you offended? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I was like, this is somebody, you know, I shared a connection with and the fact that they didn't even bother to,

9:12you know, sweat through the discomfort of rejecting me, that hit me hard. And like a true journalist, you actually contacted this individual and I want to get to what happened with that after the break. I'm here with Aki Ido, a chief correspondent at Business Insider, who experimented by using an AI detector on all the writing around her and the results we're discussing. Hey, listen up, I want to talk about something. The phone rings, it's your bank. Or you think it is. Big mistake. That wasn't your bank, it was a scammer that bought your info from a data broker. There are hundreds of them that collect your information and sell it to scammers. That's why I use Incogni. It's an online service that sends removal requests to more than 420 data brokers and people search sites. Incogni gets it done and then watches to make sure they don't add you back in. Now, Incogni's claims are independently verified by Deloitte, the first data removal service to do that. You can't stop scammers from calling, but you can make it a lot harder for them.

10:15Incogni's already removed my info from 265 databases. Family plans cover up to five people. Now, if you go to Incogni.com slash Cooper, you can get 60% off. That's I-N-C-O-G-N-I dot com slash Cooper. The less they know, the less they can use against you. Incogni.com slash Cooper. Coming up after the break, why do we get so upset when we find out someone wrote something with AI? Keep your feed interesting. Follow lashow.pizza on all your favorite apps. It's the best way to keep David Humble in the comments. This is the Lashow with David Cooper. Welcome back, frickin' freck. Welcome to the jungle. ABC Wednesday. Abbott is back. It's gonna be the best year yet. Thank you. Now we can finally turn this up. And everyone's going wild.

11:17You don't think you run this school, but you don't. It's going great. Abbott Elementary. Anything can happen in the jungle. Right, guys? We'll be right back in the stream next day on Hulu. Upgrading your dinner party conversation, one show at a time. The last show with David Cooper. Here's something I can't stop thinking about. If a piece of writing moves you, informs you, makes you laugh, affects you deeply, and then you discover somebody used AI to generate it. Has the writing actually changed? Is there anything wrong with that? Well, I'm here with someone who, for an experiment, used an AI writing detector on all the text around them. And the results were discussing. I'm here with Aki Ito, a chief correspondent at Business Insider. Aki, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Okay, so you used this AI detector on a breakup text you received in the past.

12:20And it came back saying that it was a hundred percent AI. Very quickly, you were offended by this. What was going through your head when you received that? I mean, I just thought like, wow, like this person didn't even take the time to reject me personally. Like, she just completely outsourced this to a machine. It felt terrible. Like, I was a product she was putting back on the shelf. Then you, like a true journalist. I admire you for this. Confronted this ex about using AI. What happened then? Well, it was a river up to me. I don't know if I would have wanted to go back to her, but my editor told me I have to. You know, so she, to her credit, she responded right away. And she was presumably honest. Did you use the AI detector on her response? I did. And it was a hundred percent human. I had to. No, she said she was really anxious about like, you know, these like five different initial versions she had drafted.

13:26And when she went to her co-workers to ask for their advice, they said, like, just plug it into AI. You don't owe anyone anything. And so she said, that's what she did. So, I mean, that must have hurt hearing the phrase, I don't know anyone anything. You're dating someone you kind of do. Oh, them treating them kindly, don't you? Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's, it was very telling. And the interesting thing I think about this is, you know, had I received like some version of this text when she broke up with me, I mean, maybe I shouldn't even say breakup. Like, we only went on three dates, you know, so it was a very, it wasn't a very involved relationship. You know, when, when she had sent me this like human text from the beginning, I think that that would have given me so much more information than the, you know, Chach-it-B-T written text that she had sent me.

14:26The Chach-it-B-T written text had zero information in it. It was very vague. And also, it said nothing about her because it was literally not written by her. The version, the human version of this text that she sent me recently for the story contains so much more information about what was going on in her head and about her as a person. And, you know, and so I think, you know, I was right to think I would have infinitely preferred to get the blunt human written text over the polite one from a bot. Now, your journalist, are there people you look up to that you ran this AI detection tool on and you found that the writing was written by Chach-it-B-T? Maybe it was like an op-ed from a writer you like. And if you did, did that surprise you? I don't know if I found any like op-eds myself. The one, some that I did find were just linked in posts.

15:26You know, from some people in my network, I do respect. And, you know, in those cases, I did feel a little bit judgy. But as I write in my story, I found one of my LinkedIn posts got flagged for being about 50% AI because I used AI to edit that particular LinkedIn post that I had initially drafted. And so, you know, I don't know if I was like really right to feel that judgy in that moment because, you know, it's not like I don't use AI at all in my own life. No, I remember talking to a researcher a few months ago about how people who use AI still judge their co-workers when they find out the co-workers have used it, which is the crux of what I want to discuss in our last few moments here. Like, and there's that study you mentioned before the break about people preferring AI written copy until they're told AI wrote it. Why do you think we judge other people so harshly for this?

16:29Why do we think we want a real human on the other end of the text, so to speak, so badly? Yeah, I mean, that's the question that I wanted to answer when I started reporting out this essay. You know, scholars call this the AI disclosure penalty. And at first, I thought it was just this like irrational human bias like this like prejudice that we have against machines. But I think like the more that I thought about it, the more I was into this experiment. And especially after I spoke to this philosopher named Lindsey Brainerd who's been writing a lot about AI and creativity. I started to think like actually maybe we're on to something, you know, when we have this like instinctual distaste for AI generated writing. And it's because like, you know, writing serves a bunch of different purposes. It like provides people information, it entertains. But it's also this vehicle for us to feel connected to another person.

17:34You know, we're trying to understand another person and the way we understand that person is by reading what they choose to disclose to us in that writing. Once you have AI doing that, you know, like AI has nothing to disclose because it doesn't have a soul. It doesn't have feelings. It doesn't have any life experiences to draw from. And so, you know, you're kind of like expecting there to be a human behind it. But when you realize that there isn't that feels really hollow, you feel kind of duped. And I think that's what we're feeling when we realize that something was written by AI and we feel really disappointed. You know, it's the same kind of feeling when let's say a celebrity we love, we find out they have a ghost written memoir. We might feel a little like seems empty or hollow and it's just so much worse because at least that was another person. You know, do you think this bias, this kind of negative view of people who use AI and writing once we found find out it's generated by AI.

18:36Do you think that'll go away because everyone's kind of using it, even you yourself mentioned that you've used it to kind of edit or correct grammar and LinkedIn posts. And yet you judge other people's LinkedIn posts. Like do you think this is going to go away, this is a temporary thing or you think this will always be there. I don't know. I'm not entirely sure. If it were to completely go away, I would think that like the stigma, the bias would have lessened a lot more by now because we've had generative AI in our lives for almost four years now. And the, you know, the uproar over AI generative writing, I feel like the anger about that has only intensified over the last maybe six months or so. So I'm not convinced by the argument that this is just a temporary phenomenon. I think there's, you know, something real that we're hanging on to that said, I also hear from a lot of people that they just assume everything is written by AI now.

19:39Even the stuff that is actually written by humans, and that's a kind of cynicism that makes me really sad because that means that, you know, we're probably not like, you know, engaging with writing anymore. You know, we're not really like, you know, meaningfully engaging with people's communication. And that is this like miracle of a tool that we've had for millennia, right? This tool that we call language, it's like the oldest technology we have to communicate what's going on inside our brains to another person. And, you know, this kind of feeling that we're not really, you know, using that anymore that we don't assume that that miracle is happening every single day. That makes me a little sad. That was really well said. I've had a lot of fun talking to you about your experiment. We've covered some fun stuff and some deep stuff too. I really appreciate you being on the show, Aki. Oh, thanks so much. It's always nice to be on your show.

20:39You can read more about this topic in business insider. The article is called My Strange Horrifying Month Using an AI Detector on Everything I Read. And that's written by Chief Correspondent there, Aki, Aki, thank you again. I appreciate your time. Thanks so much. Just ahead, your hair goes gray. Your priorities change. And suddenly, Bob from accounting is starting to look pretty good. Coming up after the break, what actually gets better as we age? And how do you do it gracefully? And also, why some people hit retirement, look at their spouse and think maybe 38 years was enough. That's called great divorce. Learn more about the last show with David Cooper. Visit lastshow.pizza. Yes, that's a real website. Lastshow.pizza. Welcome back, frickin' freck. Welcome to the jungle. ABC Wednesday. Abbott is back. It's gonna be the best year yet.

21:39Thank you. Now we can finally turn this up. And everyone's going wild. You don't think you run this school. But you don't. It's going great. Abbott Elementary. Anything can happen in the jungle. Frank, guys. Season premiere Wednesday on ABC and stream next day on Hulu. A shared experience for the curious. Come for the facts. Stay for the fun. The last show with David Cooper. Getting older is supposedly something we're meant to fight. Hi, to apologize for. Pretend it's something we're not. Old, but what if aging actually makes parts of life better? Can you age gracefully? What happens when you care less about the BS? And more. It's basically all things gray here with Gary D. Rinfeld. It is therapy Thursdays on a Wednesday, on a Thursday. Gary, welcome to the show and happy October.

22:41Come on. You gotta tell them where this idea comes from. I know. It's a commercial break. You're like, oh, the sides of your head. Your temples are going gray. Which I actually think kind of makes me look handsome. But it does not make me look young, Gary. Totally agree. You look great. But for the first time, I noticed you're graying, man. You burn it. I'm graying, man. And like most things on this show, the conversations of the commercial break become the topic. That's how well prepared we are. I remember when I turned 40, my wife and I, we were in separate cars, pulled into a gas station. We both filled up and I went into pay. And I said to the clerk, I said, see that lady out there. Put her on my cart. And the lady, the clerk says, oh, sir, is that your daughter? Oh, I know. I will. I'm high. I guess you're 40. Oh, man. That would be horrifying. Yeah, that was 40. That's how old I looked then.

23:43Why are people so scared of getting older and please don't say that like Freudian, whatever thing where it's like, oh, you're actually scared of death. There's got to be more to it than that. Well, fear of not fitting in. Is it fear of change? Is it fear of not being perceived as young anymore? It's got to be more than just the fear of death. Try, try telling a therapist not to be Freudian. Like it's kind of seeped into everything. But, but having said that, you raised some really good points. We're, we're worried about losing our agency in a world loaded with ageism. You know, I remember taking my mom when she wasn't well to emergency. This was all during COVID. And she was hard of hearing, but she was cognitively intact. And she got so annoyed and frustrated with the service providers who would start questioning me on her behalf

24:46rather than her directly. So as we age, you know, welcome to Western society. We seem to value at least women. And I think men to a great extent as well less. And so that that white hair of which, you know, I'm fully adorned now. We worry about losing agency in our spot as valued persons. And it doesn't happen overnight. Like as a young baby, kid toddler, even young teenager, you don't have a lot of agency. And when you're very, very old, not everybody, some people retain their agency and it's remarkable. Yeah. But when you're in your like late 80s, your agency starts to get taken away again. Maybe your family puts you in a home or your kids move in with you and they start taking care of you. So that, but it's not, it doesn't happen overnight. It's not like one day you're, you're, you're, it is, it is the gradual, seeping away.

25:50Now, I do want to tell you, I was at a powwow over the weekend here in Georgina, Ontario, shout out to the Chippewa's of Georgina. And there being an elder has such a different connotation. We were treated so respectfully, cared for, privileged. And by the way, I'm not indigenous. I'm just, I'm just older looking. But culturally, it is such a wonderful perspective on aging in the elderly. They are seen to be the holders of the history, the holders of wisdom. And it's not something that we typically see in white western culture. Yeah, I was going to say for better or worse, but it's mostly just for worse, to be honest.

26:51Like, I don't know. Do people feel as old as society treats them or is that a choice? Like, I remember when I was a kid, my, my friend's dad would always wear this like witty t-shirt that said, you know, aging is a mandatory growing up is, is optional. He was like a man in his 50s. I'm like, it's a, but I don't know that sure got me thinking. It's tacky as it was. But you know what, you raise a good point because our attitude towards aging on a personal level can dictate how we receive it, how we go through it. You know, I embrace my aging. I like being a member of the seniors club. I like this is going to be funny. I like getting my discount. So I, you know, I've earned this place in life. My dad, when he started qualifying for seniors discounts, nothing made him more happy. I got it was just so funny to watch.

27:54Yeah, and at the same time, I'm enjoying the early bird specials because, you know what? I am tired earlier in the evening. When I was in my 20s, I ate dinner at a psychotic time. I would like go out to dinner at like 9.30.10. I would have dinner at home at 9.30.10. And I'd act like that was normal. My time has now moved to 7 because I'm 40. I'm worried the one I'm 50. I'm basically already a million years old. So let me ask you something, David. When you look in the mirror, are you recognizing the changes in your appearance? Yes. But it's, it's the metaphorical mirror that I, that I recognize it, that I don't recognize myself the most. Like my anxiety in my 20s, early 30s was way worse. I was medicated for it. I'm not anymore. I still get anxious. Right. You know, if I've got to be on television or I've got to speak to it.

28:56Is it a sense that you've outgrown it? I just want to understand that. I think it's just like age and comfort in my own skin. Okay. Now, I'm someone who used to have a lot of discomfort in my own skin. And so this was a big kind of like change for me. But not everyone's like me. Not everybody feels so uncomfortable with who they are. There are many who do. I mean, what you're saying is going to relate to a lot of people. And I can't promise everybody that with age and work, it'll get better. But you got a fighting shot if you work at it, which I have. I mean, like, I used to be scared of public speaking. I'm a performer, you know. Yeah. And I don't, I look in the mirror and I think of like, I would have to do one radio show a month. And I was just a hobbyist and I was a guest on someone else's, you know, 12 years ago. And I'd be nervous for that whole month. Now I do it every day. It's the very me personal thing. But this idea that your anxieties from when you were younger are gone.

29:56I look in the mirror and I think where are those anxieties? Because when I used to look in the mirror, I would worry. Yeah. So, so you know, it begs in the sense another question. You know, some people would say as we get older, we get wiser. And yeah, some people mind you, just get older. Do you think we get wiser? I think older versions of you go away and new versions emerge. And maybe that's the same thing as wisdom. Picture this, a four-sale sign on your front yard. But it's not the house being sold. It's you. Your name, phone number, address, medical records, how much you make. It's all right there for anybody to buy. You'd rip that sign out in two seconds, right? The person that put that sign up, a data broker, hundreds of them in reality. Data brokers buy your info and sell it to anybody buying it. Scammers, insurance companies, you name it. That's why you want in Cogni. It's the online service that I'm using to put all those data brokers on notice.

30:59To remove my name and info, in Cogni sends removal requests to 420 data brokers and people search sites. In Cogni sticks with it to make sure your data doesn't reappear too. In Cogni's claims are independently verified by Deloitte, the first data removal service to do that. Already, in Cogni is removed my info from 265 sites. I like privacy, you will too. Go to Cogni.com slash Cooper for 60% off. That's I-N-C-O-G-N-I dot com slash Cooper. Coming up after the break, not recognizing who you are as you age. It's therapy Thursdays on a Wednesday on a Thursday. Here we go. It's more all things gray next. Don't let the conversation in here. Join the chaos on social media at lastshow.pizza. Follow, tag, DM us or just judge our posts. This is the last show with David Cooper.

32:00Welcome back, frickin' Frack. Welcome to the jungle, ABC Wednesday. Abbott is back. It's gonna be the best year yet. Thank you. Now we can finally turn this up. And everyone's going wild. Not thank you running school, but you're gonna. It's going great. Abbot Elementary. Anything can happen in the jungle. Frank, guys. Season premiere, Wednesday on ABC and stream next day on Hulu. Everything you didn't know, you needed to know. The last show with David Cooper. It's all things gray and small here on therapy Thursdays on a Wednesday, on a Thursday very confusing. Look, getting older, getting gray hair, creaky knees. It also comes with better judgment. I think changes for the better. Aging isn't simply a decline psychologically. It can be a period of growth. So we're gonna have growth.

33:00I know about that better judgment. And I'll use myself to explain. Good. I'm sorry. I jumped. No, I was just gonna say we're embracing the gray because of the commercial break Gary Deereinfeld and welcome Gary. I noticed gray in my temples. And yeah, that's, that's where this is coming from. One of my changes, David, is I care less now what people think of me and how I'm even coming across. I don't think I come across harshly or poorly, but I am less self monitoring if you will. I am more comfortable in my own skin and less concerned what other, how others may view me. And so in some ways perhaps a bit less filtered. Did you know what I'm going? I don't think it happens for everyone as they age this idea

34:01that they care less what others think. But I think it happens for most people. And it is delightful. It is delightful stressing less about what others think of you. I guess because you've just gone through it. You've come through the other end so many times of others judging you or thinking others are judging you. And you survive it and that experience makes you less. Well, there's, there's that. And there's, you know, there's also our professional identity. And, you know, how do we want to be perceived publicly in our professional identity? So, you know, there's, it's not necessarily anxiety, but there is a self monitoring that comes with that. There's a concern that, you know, I'm retired. I don't need to care about these things anymore. And I can, I can fall into my self. So I don't know if I'm making sense as I say this. But I can be more of who I am unfiltered.

35:03I don't need to worry about it. My professional identity anymore. Not, not that it was bad. Not that I'm bad. But there's a greater comfort, if you will. But, for example, you're retired. That can create like a bit of a, not necessarily a crisis, but like the old version of you was very professional. You're a therapist, you're a social worker. You gotta practice clients. Doing all this stuff to better, to serve your career. That can feel like it's who you are. And then as you retire, this old version of you expires. And you, you're left asking like, who am I? Yes. And, you know, how do I want to be perceived? Do I care how I am perceived? And, you know, so this, this, this, this, this aging, it allows us to, in a sense, self reflect and make choices about how we want to live our life and who we want to be in it.

36:05Well, that lens itself nicely, that line of thinking to the last part of our topic here. We're talking about all things gray. You're talking about figuring out who you are and what changes you want to make in old age, with the security and comfort of being comfortable in your own skin. Gray divorce. Yeah. Let's not do everything uplifting here, Gary. Although maybe gray divorce can be uplifting. Gray divorce is when you're in your, you're the last third of your life. Yeah. Your hair is literally gray. And you decide your long-term partner, maybe it's amicable, maybe it isn't, not gonna happen. It is the fastest rising divorce group in Canada. Cool. Maybe the US as well. I don't know why I said cool. It's not that cool, but whatever. I mean, it's cool if both people are moving towards something. Yeah. And it tends to be more female lead. So, after years of innocence, perhaps, perhaps,

37:09I got to be careful about my sexism here, serving their partner. Women especially are, you know, once grade, if a grade of worse, they're asking the questions, what do I want for myself at this stage in my life? And is what I've had for the prior third, as you mentioned, is that what I want to necessarily continue? And many, many more are opting out of that. Reasonably, it is a surprise to families. It is a surprise to their spouse. But these are persons who are starting to finally feel independent, self-assured, many in this group tend to be able to be economically independent. So, there is a skew that occurs with that. But yeah, grade of worse, women lead.

38:11You get the chance to be you. Do you think it's the getting older that makes someone less willing to tolerate an unhappy relationship? Well, there's that. And saying, is this truly how I want to live out the remainder of my life? Yeah, like I only have 20 years left, 15 years left. That's right. That are going to be good years. Do I want to live it like this? Correct. So, these persons, and again, mostly women lead, they are making choices on their own behalf. And you know, it comes as a shock to the adult children. To the adult children, you can, I'm sure. To the adult children, to the grandchildren. And what we tend to see is more often than not, they're most of these people. Well, I should be careful because I'm not 100% sure the research on this. But my guess is, most of these people are able to maintain some semblance of a relationship connection with the X

39:13so that they can still mutually enjoy the family celebrations. They can travel along. It must be fun and exciting, and like you're young again, this feeling of like learning to be an individual again for people who've been in very long-term marriages. And then I'll send them on their own. I don't know. Well, for some, it'll be fun and exciting. And for some, it'll be awful. No, for some, it'll be, it's with a sense of relief that they no longer have to care for their partner, that they can be truly independent. They can come and go as they please. And these are persons who aren't leaving the marriage because there's a third person out there. They're not, you know, they're not leaving their partner to go to a new partner. They're leaving because I'm older, I'm wiser, I'm comfortable in my skin,

40:13and I want to be more independent. I'm just saying, it must be for some people devastating, but for others, exciting being on your own. You talked about dividing life into thirds, and you know, it's the same with the butterfly. There's the caterpillar, the crystallift, and then finally the butterfly. And, you know, hopefully our aging can be like that. And, you know, with an indigenous perspective, which I truly admire, where we are of greater value, the older we get. And if people can take that on, if they don't recognize who's in the mirror, maybe now it's to find a better version. And bringing it back to my own experience here, for those, like I'm 40, and I'm social, I find myself out sometimes with young kids. And if they're just like being rude, like, oh, you're old as if that's an insult,

41:13it's like, I got time for that. You're not an interesting person to be hanging out with. It's not going to phase me too much. Those that would judge you for being old, especially socially, maybe not professionally, because that's a real problem. But those that would judge you for being old, that age, these kinds of people are not worth my time, you know? You're getting wiser, my friend. Something like that. Gary Deerenfeld is a social worker and therapist. He joins us every Wednesday for therapy Thursdays on a Wednesday. But since today's Thursday, it's therapy Thursdays on a Wednesday, on a Thursday. Gary, thank you for being here. Thanks David. That was fun. Just ahead, influencers are making millions online. And one celebrity thinks we've completely lost the plot as a civilization. Is being an influencer kind of lame? You gotta thought that it's too good to keep to yourself. Call us anytime. toll free in the US and Canada. At 1-888-505-6644. That's 1-888-505-6644.

42:14The last show with David Cooper. Welcome back, frickin' Frack. Welcome to the Jungle, ABC Wednesday. Abbott is back. It's gonna be the best year yet. Thank you. Now we can finally turn this up. And everyone's going wild. You don't think you run this school. But you don't. It's going great. Abbott Elementary. Anything can happen in the jungle. Frank, guys. Season premiere Wednesday on ABC and stream next day on Hulu. Broadcasting from the neutral zone, where every perspective gets diplomatic immunity. This is the last show with David Cooper. Well, a famous celebrity has called all influencers lame. And that celebrity, Pete Davidson, we're gonna get into why and what the silver lining of being a content creator is here with Caitlin Green, a media personality co-host of the Jan Arn podcast,

43:16and a deeply unwell pop culture addict. Caitlin, are you okay? No, I'm not. I'm never okay. Influencers, there is something lame about it. But when celebrities who got famous the traditional way being in movies, on SNL, being musicians, do you think they're kind of gatekeeping the kind of like mainstream way to get famous? And then calling everyone who does it in this new way on their own lame? To an extent, I mean, I feel like if you are a stand up, right? Like Pete Davidson cutting his teeth as a stand up for so long. If you took the abuse of like open mics, making no money, having these terrible sets like bombing catastrophically, if you put in those boots on the ground hours, you're like, go right to hell influencers. I don't, I think it would inherently bother me. And also, picking on influencers, my criticism is generally like, it's low hanging fruit. Everyone thinks they're annoying. Like I'm sure even they think they're annoying. I think they probably resent doing half of the brand deals they do. But like, I don't know, they kind of just, they're getting their hustle on. They want their millions.

44:16You know, before I got into radio, I was into stand up. And the crushing awful, suffering every day of trying to get booked, trying to get people to like you, both an audience, other comedians, is soul crushing. And you learned something from it. And I've heard that people who blow up on TikTok for doing little comedy routines, who then get booked in a big comedy club because they have a huge audience, but didn't put in those hours doing the grind, can't get through their sets and aren't very good comedians. The actual live performing version of it. Sure, they're great at making short form content. So like, they suffer because they didn't do the art, the deeper art of like being a musician or being a comic. So I don't know. There's also a lot of money in it for those at the very, very top. Like a ton of money. Yeah. And I can't really, I can't fault an influencer who like if in an interview just copped to the fact that I didn't know what I was going to do. I started just making content out of boredom and feeling like a sort of a wash

45:19in my professional life. And all of a sudden I started making so much money that I couldn't stop doing it or I couldn't turn it down. That I kind of get. And so, but I think part of it is in order to be brand friendly. You have to keep up the appearance of like, no, I just love this body pillow. I just love this like $400 soft blanket. Like that part I don't like. I think that when they admit that the reason they're there is capitalistic. I'm a little more okay with it. But yeah, it's still lame. I don't like the content. It's not for me. I'm an elder millennial. And it pains me to have to witness anyone selling something on a TikTok live for even 10 seconds. Just smash that subscribe button, Caitlin. Just go ahead and smash it. Please smash it. I need you to smash it. Yeah, it's like Tinkerbell. Like it's like if the applause ends or the views end, they die and they're like wings fade. And like I can't. And my little Ivan niece, and she's probably all of 11 years old. And she was making videos on her mom's phone of herself doing gymnastics. But she was making it in the way that an influencer would make it. And at the end, she said like and subscribe to the video on her mom's phone.

46:19And her mom found it and saw her daughter doing like handstands in their basement. And then at the end, she's like like and subscribe. I was like, oh no, we've broken something. Just for like a private family video. Yeah. This is like smile, say cheese. Yeah, it's crazy. Oh, wild. Wild. Yeah, okay. He's on to something. Pete Davidson's on to something with this criticism that is now going viral. My only call it is he's probably slept with a ton of them. So you lose a bit of credibility there. But. So you sleep with one influencer and then you can't criticize them? Yeah, like you fell for it too in your own way. So okay. All right. So my ex-wife slept with one loser. That's me. Does that mean she's not allowed to criticize losers? Well, I mean, could she criticize specifically radio host, formerly stand-ups wearing dark glasses? I don't know. She might lose the ability to criticize specifically there. We could do like a Jerry Springer moment and she's sitting there in the wings. Jerry Jerry. Jerry. She's not. Okay. Let's move on. All right. Supertime staff bowl. I read that correctly.

47:19Superbowl. I want to leave it exactly as it is. I'm clearly a huge, supertime half bowl fan with the sports. You got the ball. You got the foot. Everything's great. No. I do watch the halftime show. It's a super bowl. I did love last years. Wow. What a super what a hot take that I loved. A widely loved thing. Rumors for this year in announcement forthcoming. They're late. They're late on this at time of us chatting. They are very late because normally by the end of September they know who's going to be hosting. They know who's going to be well kind of hosting. They know who's going to be performing at the halftime show. Still hasn't been announced. So far Vegas odds have Miley Cyrus or Jay Z. I think Jay Z is a bit of sort of an 11th-hour thing because he technically is in charge or his company. He's in charge of planning Super Bowl of producing it. So they pick all the performers and have. They have a contract with the NFL. And really the way that, you know, this is my take on this. But the take of many on the internet is after the whole call and cavernic situation that Jay Z was seen to come in and try to like smooth that over.

48:22Smooth the criticism over by having us partner with Jay Z and his company to take over the halftime show and prove that we're not inherently problematic by in doing so. And so he's had this partnership with them for a long time. And I think that they've had a hard time securing a halftime show performer so far. And so if he comes in, I think this is a bit of an 11th hour like we couldn't figure anyone else out yet. Not to say that he wouldn't be a great get. It's just we haven't seen a lot of new content from him. He kind of has this weird like Rick Ross eight part documentary series on HBO that's out right now. He's done a couple of live shows recently. Reviews on his live performances as of late kind of mixed and reviews on the Rick Rubin documentary in terms of like entertainment value kind of mixed. So I don't know if he's if he's announced he'd have to bring out some friends. Let's say that. Well, who would the friends be and who are like the hot ticket items right now that could actually I don't know do a good job and be like a performer we haven't seen before. Are they just going to go with more of the same? Are we just going to see like Taylor Swift do it kind of thing.

49:23And that's the one everyone's just like well can to be Taylor and I don't think it'll be Taylor this year. Do I think that she would eventually do it absolutely this is so her brand and her milieu would be to do the Super Bowl halftime show. But there was rumor about Justin Bieber. There was rumor about Harry Styles. There was a rumor about Sabrina Carpenter. Miley Cyrus continued to kind of float to the top of the list. And I think because she's had so many errors of her like you know member her like torquing error with the short hair. Yes. Like how can we forget the wrecking ball. And then also she had that weird experimental phase with with flaming lips. You know she had her proximity to country via her dad but also dolly part and her voice lens itself to a lot of different musical genres. So do I think she could have a lot of Miley Cyrus and friends on stage. Absolutely. But I don't know what she'd be promoting. There's a rumor that she's going to have an LA. Do they have to be promoting something to do it? Yeah. You not have to be but usually they do because like they don't really get paid.

50:23They do this for the exposure. And so you can incur a lot of cost on your own as an artist. And so typically if you're in the middle of a big promo run, then your record label or whoever whatever you know service is going to be benefiting from this financially, probably your tour, they would say, okay, we'll spend on this because we're going to get it back in a tour. Where's your money for the Super Time Half Bowl? I'm going to keep saying that. I love it. I'm still going to say maybe Miley and I want to flag that if she announces an LA residency, then like hell yeah, I do really think because she's going to have like a tie in to promote something. Otherwise, I don't really know. It has to be somebody who's going on tour in my opinion. That's interesting that that tie in I've never never heard that. But I guess you probably know these things a little more than me. I am disordered in this way. The phone rings. It's your bank or you think it is big mistake. That wasn't your bank. It was a scammer that bought your info from a data broker. There are hundreds of them that collect your information and sell it to scammers. That's why I use incogni.

51:23It's an online service that sends removal requests to more than 420 data brokers and people search sites. Incogni gets it done and then watches to make sure they don't add you back in. Now incogni's claims are independently verified by Deloitte, the first data removal service to do that. You can't stop scammers from calling, but you can make it a lot harder for them. Incogni's already removed my info from 265 databases. Family plans cover up to 5 people. Now if you go to incogni.com slash Cooper, you can get 60% off. That's INCOGNI.com slash Cooper. The less they know, the less they can use against you. Incogni.com slash Cooper. When we come back from the break, we are here with media personality, Caitlin Green, who co-hosts the Jan Darden podcast. She's a deeply unwell pop culture addict. It's the moment you've been waiting for. Perhaps the most important, most prestigious award you can think of. People, magazines, sexiest man alive.

52:26Our thoughts in a moment. Got a thought that's too good to keep to yourself. Call us anytime. Call us all free in the US and Canada. At 1-888-505-6644. That's 1-888-505-6644. The last show with David Cooper. Finding a doctor is hard enough. Finding the right doctor even harder. Someone who takes your insurance has an available appointment when you need one and feels like someone you can actually open up to. That's where Zock.com's in. Download the Zock.com app to search and compare doctors by specialty, insurance, and availability. Read real-patient reviews, find the right fit for you, and book instantly. Because getting seen by the right doctor matters. Zock.com, ready to be seen? Download the Zock.com app today.

53:26Giving you the facts that make you the most interesting person in the room. The last show with David Cooper. It's the moment you've been waiting for. Not the Nobel Prize, not the field medal, not the, what are the other important smart people awards? I don't know. Pulitzer? Oh yeah, that's a good one. Not any of those. Instead, it's people magazines sexiest man alive. Here to discuss is media personality and co-host of the Jan Arden podcast and deeply unwell pop culture addict. I asked you how to introduce you, Caitlin, and you said that, and I love that. Yep, that's how that's the best thing I could think of saying about myself. What an important award that everyone takes seriously, sexiest man alive. I just assume it goes to George Clooney every year. That's probably the last time I checked. And that's the last time it felt relevant. Because the second you give this award to the likes of Blake Shelton, I think we're all agreeing that it doesn't really mean anything and has absolutely no basis in sexiness whatsoever. And that's why it's important to discuss. Who are the favorites?

54:26What are some of the awards? Why is Will Ferrell's name in the mix? There's a lot of things, but a handsome man. I'm not so sure he is. Okay. Will Ferrell's son Magnus Ferrell apparently has become a bit of a singer. I'm not going to describe that career any further other than to say he has a couple of soulful R&B-esque tracks that aren't terrible. He has a decent voice. I don't know that I want to turn on a Magnus Ferrell song in my spare time. But when I heard it, and considering I have a background in radio, and I work in radio now, I thought this isn't as god awful as I thought it would be. So apparently, his son has been trying to campaign for his dad to win some sort of sexiest award, presumably as a joke. I think the son should win. I mean, he kind of looks like if Timothy Shalame and Will Ferrell had a baby, he's not bad looking Magnus Ferrell. Yeah, he's fine as far as like NEPO baby goes. Sure. Like sure Magnus Ferrell. Sure, why not? But what I think is funny about this is that the sexiest man alive award is a very hilarious thing to me.

55:29It's a promo vehicle again, much like the super half time bull show that we were previously referencing. It's a promo vehicle for someone who has something to promote. So let's say that you have like the newest like network drama. Like it could very well go to the star of whatever that show is. Not because they got the most votes necessarily, but just because it's like the pit or something like that. Exactly. That's exactly right. So now they feel like they need to branch out and create the people's choice awards or the reader's choice awards. So the poll is coming out and they've created all these new little subcategories. And I really enjoy some of these subcategories and how clear they're being about pandering. Because one of them is sexiest fake hockey player. Like just tell me you want to include the guys from heated rivalry. Yeah, that's just literally writing an article where you get to mention these hot dudes. Exactly. Just say the heated rivalry award and move on. Then they have sexiest cat dad. So we could nominate you David. Thank you. I appreciate that. Unfortunately, there are other men who are cat dads. So naturally they would win. But if I was the only one alive, it could go to me.

56:30Well, I might enter you just for fun. And then they have this category. Listen to this. Hotter than your cup of coffee in the morning, featuring morning show hosts. So you've got Craig Melvin, Vlad Duthier, Michael Strahan amongst others. So they're just creating subcategories now so that they haven't excused to give someone something. They want them to push it on their socials. They want them to talk about it on their TV shows. It's all this big sort of snake eating its own tail that is the entertainment industry. It reminds me of when Netflix did that. Gapal Fools joke where they made their categories for you oddly specific. Deep sea horror movies or shows with a strong female lead that are set in jail where the main character beats up the other one. I remember looking at it and being like, these categories are so odd and so specific to me. It's thinly veiled, I guess. In the Netflix case, it's for April fools. In this case, it's just to write an article about a specific person. They're trying to say it's a real thing.

57:31I would hope and I would assume that the people at People Magazine know that this is kind of silly. And they're sort of maybe this is tongue in cheek in a way. But they have sexiest period drama, dreamboat, sexiest Broadway debut. So it's kind of whatever. But I do want to remind everyone that Ryan Gosling has turned down receiving the Sexiest Man Alive Award year after year after effing year. Even when he has a big movie that he's promoting, he still doesn't want to do it. When he's promoting Barbie, he still says, I'm not doing it because he knows that kind of winning this award is like a little bit inherently repellent if you take yourself seriously. Okay. Or maybe he's just classy and he knows there's other sexy men out there who aren't getting their recognition they so deserve. That's what it is. Every fall, Caitlin, it feels like I see videos in my feed. I hear content on the radio on podcast and TV. And it's often like dating experts, sex communicators, sexual health people. And they all talk about cuffing season as if it's this thing.

58:33It's like just because you say something's a thing, doesn't make it a thing for everyone. Every year I get confused as if there's some seasonality to dating. And there's enough of a seasonality to dating that there's trends and everyone does it. I think it's going to be us, but cuffing season, what is it? Cuffing season has begun and I don't even think it's a real thing that actually exists within the actual world of dating as you pointed out. I think all it is is all of a sudden we start getting articles saying it's cuffing season. Cuffing season is the time when I get pitched a ton of like you said dating experts to come on the show. Hey, do you want to have gobbledo goob come in and talk about how like everyone has to find love by Christmas? No, I don't particularly. And or if I do book you it's to make fun of you on the show. So I like that a lot of people are now like let's create a whole book about it. And one is called the cuffing season playbook and they've broken down this PR release concept of cuffing season in two months. And they've tried to actually do a direct correlation between cuffing season and football. Oh great. Getting men involved. It's sort of like the 12 days of Christmas, which I don't think anyone knows what the 12 days are.

59:38There's a partridge somewhere in there. It's an aparitory. There's lords of leap in. There's maids of milking. I have a toddler. So I do unfortunately know too many of these categories, but they said that September is scouting season where singles refresh their dating profiles get back on the apps and start seeing who's out there. And the notion is that they need to hibernate and cuddle inside for indoor season with someone. It's never even really about like oh you should just find the right person for you. You should just connect with someone who you happen to work on your dating app and work on it in September because all winter you're going to be cuffed. Exactly. They're like you should lock it in because you have to spend the winter hold up with someone and then when summer comes you can finally get back out on the streets again and be promiscuous. I'm like this is a disordered way of looking at finding a significant other and I will never accept it, but I will always discuss it in a way that makes one of it. Okay, let's go to October. Moving along with this football analogy, it's drafting season. Is this is when you start interviewing people to be your winter boyfriend or girlfriend?

1:00:39That's right. It's drafting season and this is when people start narrowing the field and focusing on their most promising prospects. Can you imagine? Can you imagine someone actually thinking like well it's October 1st today. I've got to start getting on my drafting for all the people I've lined up on hinge. Like this is such a bummer. This is why people delete dating apps. And probably like dating apps commission these articles about cuffing season as well. And they say November and December are the sweet spot holiday parties family gatherings and new year's eve create plenty of opportunities to pair up. Bring in someone I've only been dating for a month to a family gathering. Are you nuts? And if you are you have sex and love addiction. Why are you bringing someone you just met to these things? Why can't you just go on your own merits? Because then they say January is the playoffs. Dun dun dun. The holiday magic wears off and reality sets in. If you're still together you might really have something. Because then guess what Valentine's Day is the Super Bowl of Love. That's a real thing. That's a real premise that some dating expert has put into a book and said that Valentine's Day is the Super Bowl of Love and that is their official terminology for it.

1:01:46Valentine's Day is a holiday that I've forgotten about twice. It's not the super time half bowl of love. Sorry I had to hide it. You have to do it. I don't even know what to say. The stuff is tacky. This is cheesy and real human relationships don't work like that. And if real human relationships do work like that for you, I'm worried. Yeah, I agree. I want anyone listening to hear this and know in your heart that the next time you hear Cuffing season you have to make fun of it. It is your fiduciary duty roast this accordingly because saying stuff like this sucks and it does not actually improve your odds of finding someone you want to spend time with. I don't even tell me how you really feel about it though. Okay, well. Well, Caitlin Green is a media personality. She co-hosts the Jan Arden podcast. Caitlin, it has been a while. I know. Great joy. Having you here. Thanks for being on the show. Thank you for having me as always so much fun. As always, so much fun on the Super Time. I'll stop. I won't do it again. Super Bowl half time show of love. There it is. Happy. Having said all of what you said about Cuffing season.

1:02:46If there were a radio Cuffing season with guests, I would be very glad to have you on as one of those guests non-romantically. This is sounding weird. Just ahead this question. Can you be deeply in love with someone like a fiance and stop wanting them in the bedroom? Before you blow up your wedding, there might be an explanation here. We'll cover that next. Want to see the faces behind the voices? Follow us at lastshow.pizza on all platforms. This is the last show with David Cooper. We work hard to strike the right amount of intelligence and ignorance. The last show with David Cooper. Now we go to an advice column in a publication called The Cut, where one reader wrote this. Dear people who write the advice column. I'm engaged to someone I am slowly becoming less attracted to. But he's amazing inside and out. What should I do? Sincerely engaged but disengaged.

1:03:49To discuss this important piece of literature is Natalie Norman, a Toronto-based comedian to weigh in on the finer points of not being attracted to Mr. Wright. Natalie, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I have so many opinions on this question. I feel like you've either dated jerks you were attracted to or really nice men you weren't attracted to. All the men you've dated fall into those two categories. Me personally? Yes or no. I'm not going to disagree with that. But I think that's a lot to be said is when we're dating someone nice, do we feel like we deserve it? Well, I myself, other than Miranda, who's a goddess, my girlfriend, who could never do wrong. Let's talk about everyone I've dated about her. Yeah, when I'm with someone who's a little too thoughtful, it just makes me feel bad about myself for not being thoughtful enough. It doesn't make me appreciate their good deeds. Yeah, and I go, oh, why do I deserve this? It becomes about our inner workings and what we feel our value is.

1:04:53So that's what that is about. But this is clearly the, I've gotten past that point of like she knows he's amazing, he's great. And now they're planning a wedding. And in this case to me, it's like, yeah, why would you be attracted to your partner right now? Planning a wedding is insanity. Also, there becomes a new pressure on your relationship. You're not just dating. Now you're married. The government now knows what's going on in your love life. And the family's getting along, the money, the choosing the venue, the meal, the pastor, the rabbi. Who's in the wedding party of what the dress is like, the florist, it's unending. And then the money flying out of your account during all this. Right. And that's just one part of it, right? Like we're not talking about what's happening at her work, what's not happening at his work. You know, there's just so many factors that comes into desire and attraction to anyone. And I think we often forget that like we feel, all of us feel, myself included, oh, I should have bought this person all the time. I should desire them all the time. And then when we have a moment of it, we go, oh, maybe I don't like them.

1:05:53Oh, maybe I don't want to be with them. And it's like, no, nothing ever lasts forever. And like, honestly, I think it's very human to be like, hey, I'm not feeling really attracted to this person right now. It doesn't mean I'm not attracted to them. Yeah, long-term relationships, things come and go in waves. Like a good sex life being attracted to someone that takes work. You know, it's not just going to be the honeymoon phase at the beginning of the relationship forever. I don't even know if it's work. It's just, it's like work on ourselves. Not even the relationship, right? Like it's like, hey, I'm stressed out. How does that make me feel? Do I feel desirable? Does it make me mad at everyone in my life? Now, I know this letter writer said that they were losing being attracted to their fiance. But are there times when people end up in relationships where like the partner is everything right? And so they think they should be with them. But that fundamental piece of like, am I actually attracted to them? Like this person's amazing. Do I find them hot and enjoy being in bed with them? And that second question, am I attracted to them?

1:06:55The answer is always kind of no, but because they're so great, you date them anyway. No, I don't think that's actually what happening. I don't necessarily think that's what's happening with this. No, I know, but separately, I do think that's avoidance. I don't like, I think someone being nice to you and kind and all those things should make your attraction to them so much less. And so much larger. And if you go, why am I not attracted to them? Okay, but what is going on in you? But don't people have like types? I'm not going to the risk of stereotyping. I like freckles and red hair. I've got a type. For sure. But like you went to like, I don't think it would have lasted that long if you weren't attracted to them at some point. I really don't. Okay. Okay. Like if all of a sudden you're like, I don't know if I'm attracted, I think you have to look into yourself. Even then, like, I just know because I have a, I have disorganized attachment, which many of us do, which means I get anxious and I get avoidant. So when someone's like really, really nice to me, all of a sudden, I'm like, ew, I don't, it's because I don't know how to handle it.

1:07:57I don't know how to feel deserved. And my brain is trying to protect me from allowing someone to get closer to me. So I think instead of like pushing this on someone else, I think the first thing to do is look inside your inner world. Wait, you just made up an attachment style. There's secure, there's secure, anxious, avoidant, and then there's disorganized. All right. I guess you didn't make it up. I'm looking it up right now. I thought you just made up one to suit yourself. No, no, no. I mean, if I did congratulations to me. I can see you doing that. I don't know. I've been with someone who I just had this explosive connection with on like a, like an intellectual friend, supportive, love being around you level. But then when we got to the bedroom, it like never really clicked. And three months in, I realized like, I'm not attracted to this person. I don't even know that she was attracted to me. We just really let, we should have been best friends. And we, the wires got crossed and we dated instead and it did not work. But it didn't get to the wedding point. It got to the like a couple of month point.

1:08:59I would say like, I mean, this person is in your past, but I would almost say like, you know, when I feel really close to someone. And like, I know there was an attraction there. And then all of a sudden, like, I for me at least, I can't speak to everyone else. I know my avoidance is acting up for whatever reason. And I think there's something at the core, at the core of that before you throw someone out. Now should you stay for them forever? No, but like, there is something that initially draw them to you. And what is that? And why? And like, just keep in mind, over our life space, we're going to get ugly. And we're not going to look good. I were going to throw someone out because all of a sudden our attraction isn't there because our person that ugly. No, there's other factors that play into attraction. I feel like as I age, I'm attracted to people my age though. So maybe like when I'm 80, like, like I'm 40 now, I look at 50 year old women. I'm like, oh, they're very hot. If they are hot, but when I was like 20, if someone was 50, I'd be like, not even if they were hot. So I do wonder, people always say as you age, your body goes, you're not going to be attracted to your partner forever. Maybe you will be. Maybe you will be.

1:10:07But I do think the way like I do think there when we when I know for sure, and it's like scientifically proven with like desire and feeling comfortable and safe, is there so many factors? Then just like, then just like, do I want to have sex with this person? Right? Like that is one aspect of it. But what is happening in our actual mind at the time really affects the way of relationship goes. So to the point of someone who's engaged planning a wedding and finding themselves not attracted to their partner, your kind of point is that's a stressful time in life. You shouldn't be surprised by your attraction level dropping during a stressful time. That is totally normal chill out. Yeah. And like what you should do is probably go to someone to talk about your stress. Okay. Because I feel like when you're doing that when she's saying that she's she's taking the responsibility off of her almost when she's like, I'm not attracted to him. As if he did something and it's like, what about me? What is going on in me right now? So work on yourself can make yourself more attracted to the people you're dating. It's not that it can make you more attractive, but it's maybe you're holding like walls up.

1:11:15Okay. Okay. I'm liking this. This is not terrible dating advice from someone with maybe not the best dating tracker. No, I have a terrible dating track record, but a lot of it is my avoidance. No, it's the people who are bad at dating who are able to give good advice because they've been through all those bad scenarios. I wouldn't take dating advice from someone who married their high school sweetheart and never dated anyone else. They don't know what they're doing. No. Natalie Norman is a Toronto based comedian, find her online at stocking Natalie. Natalie, it's always to show you have any on the show. Thank you for having me. Sure, this a four sale sign on your front yard, but it's not the house being sold. It's you. Your name, phone number, address, medical records, how much you make. It's all right there for anybody to buy. You'd rip that sign out in two seconds, right? The person that put that sign up, a data broker, hundreds of them in reality. Data brokers buy your info and sell it to anybody buying it. Scammers, insurance companies, you name it. That's why you want in Cogni.

1:12:15It's the online service that I'm using to put all those data brokers on notice to remove my name and info. In Cogni sends removal requests to 420 data brokers and people search sites. In Cogni sticks with it to make sure your data doesn't reappear too. In Cogni's claims are independently verified by Deloitte. The first data removal service to do that already in Cogni is removed my info from 265 sites. I like privacy, you will too. Go to Cogni.com slash Cooper for 60% off. That's I-N-C-O-G-N-I dot com slash Cooper. Coming up, would you give an AI your emails, credit cards, and health data just to make your life easier? Well, someone did. They tried out Meta's new AI product and what happened? Whether you should do this next, never miss a beat. Follow the last show with David Cooper on your favorite podcast app or head to lastshow.pizza. It's the tastiest sounding domain on the internet. That's lastshow.pizza.

1:13:22That I never knew that feeling. It happens every few minutes here. This is the last show with David Cooper. What if an AI assistant could read your emails, peek at your credit cards, check your health data, and then actually do things for you. Well, that's the promise of Meta's new AI agent Muse. But handing an AI the keys to your digital life might come with a pretty big catch. Sometimes it fumbles, it fails. So let's talk about Muse because I'm here with a reporter who put it to the test. And the results were a mix of impressive and awkward. I'm here with Katie Natabolis, a technology and culture correspondent at Business Insider Katie. What a joy it is having you here. Thanks for having me. All right. I have so much I want to talk to you about. But let's talk about Muse instead. What inspired you to give this AI assistant the keys to your online life? I'd be too scared to do that. So Muse just came out very recently. I think September 8th is when it launched.

1:14:23So it was new and I always want to try the new thing. And I figured the only way to really fully test it would be to give it as much of my information as I could and let it try to do as many tasks with that as I could. If I held back, I wasn't going to get the full experience. And I wanted to write about it. So I was sort of willing to make myself a human guinea pig here. I've spoken like a true journalist. You're willing to destroy your life, give away your social security number, your bank account, all of it in the name of journalism. I love it. Were there any surprises when you gave Muse these keys, so to speak? So there were a couple of surprises. The biggest one was I was a little surprised by what I couldn't give it. And the big thing there was WhatsApp messages, which I assumed would be easy because WhatsApp is owned by meta. But it has to do with the sort of encryption level of what's that message is. It's not easy to just have a bot read them, which frankly is good, right?

1:15:24And so I sort of get the more you connect these things and just to sort of be clear, like, this is an AI tool that's a little bit different than something like chat to you. Where you're talking back and forth to it and you're asking it to, you know, brainstorm for me or, you know, find information for me. This is you sort of give it tasks and it goes out and does those. And so it sort of scurries around the internet. You say, you know, hey, I have a form in my email that was sent to me by my kid's school that I need to fill out a permissions. Let fill it out and send it back to them for me. That's an example, something that I had to do today. And I actually just did it on my computer myself, which I had used here. And it's like one of those like vaguely annoying tasks. But like, oh, what if, you know, it's simple. What if I, you know, what if this thing could just do it for me? And so that's what it does. And it's pretty effective at doing that. You can have a do other tasks like, you know, I've seen people say they had it, you know, shop for new car insurance for them to find a lower rate.

1:16:26Or, you know, I think that a classic case that people talk about is like, I had a book like a restaurant reservation for me. Or something, which honestly is like that's not that hard to do yourself either. But people are sort of coming up with all these ways to sort of get these agents to do little tasks around the internet for them so that they don't have to. Okay, so that's where it does things well. It does, did some of these things well for you. Where did it start to feel a little awkward, creepy, did a bad job? You had misgivings about giving this tool access to your personal data. Where did it do a bad job? So the problem was it would occasionally sort of run up against some friction on websites, especially when they needed stuff like a capture to be solved or something like that. Like it would need, then it would kind of need me to come in and take over. I wanted it to make a doctor's appointment for me. That's an annoying task that I haven't gotten around to doing. I just made my first colonoscopy appointment for two weeks from now. Thank you. But onto you.

1:17:27And you know, I hate going on the doctor's website and you know, it's a clunky site or you have to call them and it's always like, I just never get around to it. And does it just do it for me and it tried to do it on the Zock Dox site, but couldn't quite get past a capture went to the doctor's regular like personal, not personal, the practice website. Got almost all the way there started filling it a lot of it, but it needed me to give it a lot of information. So I had to give it my date of birth, you know, race, gender, all the stuff that you know, you should fill out because it's a health form, social security number. And finally, it just was like, we can't do it. It tripped up on the insurance info. It was like your insurance info is like it was my previous like last years and it was like, we can't update it. So eventually like I had to, you know, it was like, just give them a call. So it didn't work. And it kept sort of running into all this friction. I had a couple other things where it similarly like I just couldn't quite get it to accomplish the task.

1:18:32Like I needed it to log in to the dedicated app for my kids school communications and it just couldn't do it. I spoke with someone at Metta and they basically sort of said, you know, yeah, there's some friction and it's kind of designed to fail more often than it's going to do something accidentally bad, right? Which is good. Yeah. So I suppose like I would rather it fail to make the doctor's appointment and say, sorry, I just couldn't accomplish this task. Then go rogue and make 20 doctor's appointments, right? Or if I wanted it, one of the big things that, that it's sort of pushing towards is being able to shop for you, right? So Metta just made all these partnerships with Shopify and Stripe, the payment processor, PayPal. I hear that and I think yikes, but keep going like I don't want something by I don't want a package arriving in my house that I don't want or that I didn't know that I needed. So you you would rather there be too much friction than too little, right?

1:19:33Like you would rather it not by the thing than accidentally spend all your money and buy the wrong thing. So I think that that's the sort of like big safety mechanism. Taking off your journalist hat, you know, your mom, you're ostensibly a normal human being normal enough. You know, you still like coming on the show so you can't be that normal. But would you let me use or tool like it handle these important things for you? Would you recommend that? I'm not sure. I'm still using it and I'm not sure exactly how many more new tasks I'm going to give it. But I have found it really helpful for doing like some of the very basic tasks that I think people use agents for which the first is like sort of triaging my email. So I get tons and tons of unsolicited email to my work address every day and it makes it hard to sort of sift through and find emails that I actually do want to respond to. And it's actually pretty good at doing that. So I set it to every day at 8 a.m. and 11 a.m. it gives me an alert of like, did you get any important emails?

1:20:39And it's pretty good at doing that. Like it's it's pretty efficiently surfaced the emails that I care about and want to respond to. That is actually like I will continue to use this every day as my like, oh, a little alert on my phone tells me like you actually got one important emails. I mean, that sounds like exactly the perfect use case for a tool like this. Whereas like, I don't know, filling out your your kids school stuff that's important or booking a doctor's appointment that's important. Maybe not is what I'm hearing. Well, I mean, I will as far as the kids stuff, I will say two things. You would be shocked of how any parent knows you get so much emails. Then it's all spread. It's not even email. It's like spread across separate apps. It's enormously annoying to deal with this like barrage of information that comes every activity and after school club and the teacher and the PTA. They all have like different systems for dealing with this kind of stuff. And just managing that, managing the school calendar like, oh, it turns out it's like where yellow day or whatever.

1:21:42It's just so much stuff. And if if you can simplify that into sort of like, and that's one of the things I asked to do is you know, give me a daily digest of everything kid in school related. And it will do that. And that's actually tremendously helpful for me. Although I do still put it on missing a few things is because I did solve some of the login issues. But what I have noticed is that seems to be when I've seen what other people are using it for. That kind of like, it's helped me clean up the personal life junk is actually maybe a little bit more useful than people using it for work related tasks. So that's at least what sort of what I've found. I've kind of joke that like, I don't need an executive assistant. I need a wife. And I feel like this is, this is my wife now. This is the one who takes care of all the school emails for me. Katie, it has been a joy talking to you. Thanks for talking to me about this new product. Thank you. I hope you try it. That's a wrap on our show. Don't forget to follow the last show on social media.

1:22:42Our handle is lasho.pizza on most platforms. Subscribe for great video content of this program. We'll be back tomorrow night. Never miss an episode of the last show with David Cooper. Subscribe and listen wherever you get your favorite podcasts or visit last show dot pizza. Yes, that's a real website. Last show dot pizza. Follow. Fall never arrives all at once. Verse the air. Then the light. And slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets address. A hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. And fall your way at Ross.