From Police K9s to Support Dogs with Dr. Coby Webb

0:00Hello and welcome to Dog Works Radio. Today I am joined by Dr. Kobe Webb calling in from Bend, Oregon. She is a canine handler and placement coordinator for guide dogs of the desert. Lots of stories about canine cop dogs, what they do, what they're all about and much more. Check it out. From first palm media sponsored by Alaska Dog Works, Professional canine Training Center in Anchorage, Alaska. This is Dog Works Radio, committed of families and their dogs to build lifelong and fulfilling relationships. Visit our website at dogworksradio.com. Now here are your hosts Robert and Michelle Fortun. Kobe, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you for having me. Can you do us a favor and briefly tell us who you are and what you're all about, please? My name is, well, I guess officially Dr. Kobe Webb. I am a retired police captain with Riverside

1:06County Sheriff's Department. While I was in law enforcement, I decided to continue education and my doctorate, my focus was my dissertation was dealing with officer stressors with management styles and then throughout my career, majority of it even as a commander, I have been involved in the canine division after 28 and a half years. And today you're working for guide dogs of the desert. I'm calling in to Bend, Oregon, a beautiful part of the country. I was there with my wife just last year. We went down to the Overland Expo and my goodness. What a place. I know that you guys are famous for your breweries down there. How did you end up in that part of the country? I grew up here and all my families in Bend. So when I retired from Riverside County Sheriff's and

2:09my kids went off to college. I decided to move back up here in my husband and I and be near my family. Okay. Well, we have a lot to unpack here guys. We could probably have a two-hour episode with Kobe, but we're really going to focus on her work at the guide dogs of the desert. But I want to get some background. You had mentioned that you worked with the sheriff's office. You were in the canine department. You've done just about everything there from apprehension to trailing and tracking to detection and all of that. Give us a synopsis. What was a day in the life like for you and your dog as a handler team? Well, I was one of the first. I don't actually know of any others. I was called the dual handler. So when I was with Riverside County Sheriff's, my goal was to always be a canine handler. And so I excelled as a deputy and tested for canine.

3:11And during that time, I was also looking into starting a bloodhound program. And the department said, hey, we'll support you if you prove that it is reliable, needed, and an asset. So that was a challenge. And I said, not a problem. And I got a bloodhound puppy and used a vacation time in my own money to travel around United States to some of the best schools and really obtained some great mentors. And at within six months, at this time, I also was selected to be a patrol dog handler. So I had my first patrol dog was Barry, which was a Malinois who already was six years old and worked the streets of Marino Valley, California. And I was the rookie and he always tried to be boss. So I was working two dogs almost throughout my entire career. And then I was also the canine sergeant

4:13of our department, which was 26 dogs, which included explosives and electronics. So been very involved in the canine world. I have a bunch of questions here about the different types of dogs and the working environment and all of that. Most people, their interaction with canine cops and their dogs and all that is most often through some type of presentation, like at a school or something like that, or through TVs and movies. And of course, we've all seen shows like cops and all of that with the with the canine dogs, but set the stage for us, Kobe, what is a day in the life like? And I guess a posing question for a lot of people that are listening is, do you take the dog home with you? Do they interact with your family? All of that. Well, it depends on the dog. My very first dog, Barry, he had some major issues where he really

5:20wanted to be alpha and challenge. And as I said, I was the rookie. And when I told him to sit, the very first time he growled at me and gave me the look in his eyes. And I went, okay. And I want to canine so bad that I wasn't going to call one of the guys to come help me with my dog instead. At that time, I was thinking I was braving him. I carried cookies. And really, what I was doing was positive reinforcement, even with a patrol dog. Okay. And so we built a bond with the cookies instead of conflict. I didn't have to prove that I was the boss. I was like, hey, I just want to be canine word partners together. Let's make this work. If you listen, you get a cookie and it worked with him. And I learned so much with the first dog being difficult and already what's

6:27called the street dog. And me being his second handler on it, it was wonderful. We went home. I did not, I was single. I did have him inside the house. I've always had the dogs part of my family except when I did go on a date on the gentleman knocked on the door and Barry said, no, you are not. That's when I kind of realized, okay, he's a little possessive. And I'm not going to have him around you know, a date or anything like that. But I did go hiking. I did do other things to because he was my partner. And I believe in that. Okay. And we're going to talk about the different types of dogs and the jobs that they do in just a second. But my understanding, Kobe is almost always when you guys are on patrol, correct me if I'm wrong here, but when you guys are on patrol, you were not,

7:32I guess the first portion of contact often you will see, especially on like the cop shows and stuff they will call the K9 team in. But often when you see people pulled over on the side of the road, even if with a K9 team, the dog is not out when they're giving the ticket, right? So is that is that true? Are you guys kind of the second line of defense or how does that work for like a patrol dog? And it can vary. So for example, if I hear an alarm call on the radio, I would respond right away. Because I did have the patrol dogs, so if it was a burglary in progress or something, I did have a dog who could search if I saw like a broken window. If I saw something where I suspected a crime was occurring. So sometimes I could be the first majority with tactical or after a pursuit, any of those things, I was the, I'd be the second responder. But we are monitoring

8:38the radio. So we are there rather quick. And then of course, there are the ones where we would be called from home to. Right. So it, it just depends on what the call for services. Okay. So let's talk about the different types of dogs. You talked about the Malinois. I know that you've also worked with Labrador's German shepherds. And of course, Bloodhounds, can you describe for our listeners? What the different types of dogs are and kind of put them in a job bucket? Because we know that Bloodhounds probably don't make the best, you know, the dogs that tackle people, if you will. And so on and so forth. Yeah. The Bloodhound isn't as fast as like a Malinois running. So if somebody is running, the Malinois is faster. The Bloodhound, they are known for their trailing. They're very focused. I have always worked single purpose Bloodhound. So that's all their dog was west

9:40to stay on that one trail from point A to point B, which is important when it's a missing child or anything. I don't want the dog to go smell cadaver or something else. I want them to stay on that one trail of who we're looking for. So that's what the Bloodhounds were mainly used for. And then the Labrador's, we use those detection. So that would be electronics, explosive, narcotics. And then also they are used for trailing. I mainly work them for the detection and then also therapy slash support dogs. And the Poodles, they are amazingly smart. And those are same thing. They're being support. And then the German shepherds and the and the and the Malinois's there's those are those are the patrol dogs, right? You call them street dogs. Is that right? Well, that's very was a street dog, which means he worked on the streets. Okay. Try to be compared to I do currently

10:46have a shepherd. That's my own that I titled. And hand that was sport. And he is so smart. And loyal. And really wants my approval. So it, you know, each dog's a little bit different. Okay. We are going to jump into the support side of this in just a second. But one more question on this background with the police dog work. When dogs come into a police department, you often see on social media, the little pup with his little tactical vest on and maybe a badge and all of that. What is the typical route for a working puppy? Are they brought in that early and trained with the police department that they're going to work for? Is it training somewhere else? What's the kind of the norm? And it usually depends on the discipline. So the bloodhounds are the only ones

11:49that I know of that we do puppies in law enforcement that that we train while on duty. Usually our shepherds and mallaws already have a foundation of training. And same as our detection. But we did do the bloodhounds because in Southern California, it's so urban. So we do have dogs barking along a fence line. We have a lot of distractions, a lot of air breaks, pavement, everything that we do train the dogs and the environment that they're going to work. It just makes it a little bit easier for them. So they do travel around. If you even look up Riverside County Sheriff's, you will see bloodhound puppy pictures there. And they are out with the handlers every day. And you remember I started this and now we have three full-time bloodhounds.

12:50Wow. Yeah, it's amazing that these dogs can do the jobs that they do. Obviously we know that being dog trainers for 30 plus years and of course with your work. And of course, you're later work that you're doing right now in your support role. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about Coby's work with guide dogs of the desert. Your dog is part of the family, but the daily frustration of walks, greetings, and consistency is real. Whether your dog is new to the house or has been with you for years, most owners discover there's a gap between knowing the commands and actually living them. Alaska dog works virtual and on-site classes are the best way to close that gap. We help you build a lasting bond and teach practical skills such as establishing a solid routine, setting clear commands, and developing real world reliability. So your dog becomes one of the best partners in the house. Right now, Alaska dog works has

13:55an exclusive offer just for our listeners. Go to AlaskaDogworks.com and use promo code dogworks to save 20% off your training program at the time of booking. Okay, we are back. We put the roots down if you will on the work that Coby does in her role as a police and sheriff's department officer. Lots of cool stuff there with a bunch of dogs. And I did not ask Coby, how long did you work in that role? Was it decades? Decades, because even as a captain, I still was working dogs on Wednesdays with the K-19. Wow. One further question on that. I always spark questions by the things I ask. What do you think has changed the most in terms of the K-9 teams? Of course, they've been around for a long time. What do you think is the big change if

14:57anything? I haven't seen really much of a change. It's always evolving. I'm always looking more at the handlers. How can we improve handlers? Because the dogs are pretty consistent, but the dogs depend on the handlers. I always look at handlers always improving. And how has that changed? People by and large have changed a lot in the last 20 or 30 years, just the way that they approach work ethic and job placement and going to college versus technical school versus on the job training and all that. How do you think the people have changed over your time? I believe anybody that works a dog, it is not a job. Okay. And that's it's really a career and family involvement position. And that's where I really try to emphasize because

16:04when I got hired, it was very hard to get hired. I had a test. And now there's incentives to become officers where they pay you right off to apply and get hired. And so sometimes, now it's kind of like, oh, well, do I get K-9 paid? Do I get what? And I always say, you know, now, this, I get FLA say laws, but in your heart, I look for individuals that are in it for the full commitment. It's not just a job. It doesn't stop when you get off work. You're not going to be going to the river and going on your days off for three days and your dogs in a kennel. And your partner and this position is a life position. Those are the handlers I look for. Okay. So let's switch gears and talk about your work now, guide dogs of the desert. What do you do

17:13there and set the scene for us? Yeah. Well, back in early 2019, I was a captain and I was in charge of the coroner's bureau for Riverside County, which is 2.3 million people. And every call is death. There's not anything positive. And my bureau, we had two officers killed in the line of duty. We had the town of Paradise, fire in Northern California. And I had a senator, Sergeant and two death investigators up to help with notifications. And so a lot of negative impacts. And remember, my dissertation was always, I do care a lot about mental wellness and public safety because people, the public are calling 911. And I don't want somebody showing up who's not mentally healthy to help you. And so when I was a captain there, you know, the dog

18:16handlers were calm and visit me and then I would go work the dogs. And I always had a break. And I was like, I, you know, my bureau needs some more help. I mean, I did use additional resources already. But it was literally on a Sunday guide dogs of the desert called me. And they said, Kobe, we have a dog that's had all the training. He just simply doesn't want to be a guide dog. His tail kind of goes down when the harness goes on. He wants to say hi to everybody. And we just love on, can you find a job for him? And I was thinking, well, okay, what's his play drive like? You know, his food drive going down all these roads thinking the law enforcement route, the detection route and all that. And I'm like, and you didn't make it as a service dog for guide work. What am I going to do? And I said, sure, you know what, I'll just take a look at him

19:17and, and let me see. And I was thinking, can I do anything search and rescue with them? Anything. And here comes this English lab that is your best friend in five minutes doing hand signals on just loved my whole family. And I was like, you are just the coolest dog. And I said, you know what, I'm going to call it a pilot program. And I'm going to take you to work with me. And I just want to see how this goes while I'm at work, you know, all over sea. But you know, I really think you could bring some positivity. And I'm telling you week one on Friday at five o'clock, I had to get on the PA system asking for the dog to be brought back to my office so I could go home. Because he was such a hit. Other people could walk him, got him up away from their desk.

20:24And I did, of course, Eval Ham, you know, his behavior and everything. And he just was a home run. And, you know, and I forgot about other people like my accounting staff. Everybody else just say, you know, he just breaks up our day. And you can tell him anything. And he doesn't repeat the secret. And he just knows when somebody wants engagement with him. And next thing you know, I get a call from my sheriff say, Kobe, what are you doing? I heard you have a dog. And I was like, but you guys already used me in canine. And I wanted to see how this works. And now dispatch wants internal affairs even wants one. I go, this is brilliant. And he said, Rob, you're going to have to go to safety department risk. Go to risk management, HR, employee assistance. I had all these hoops. I

21:30had to jump. And I said, not a problem. And I took the dog to meet all these department heads. And I said, here's this black lab. And by the way, I have all the records from them because guide dogs of the desert does their own breeding. So I have everything on this dark from seven weeks old. And, and he's passed all these tests. And here he is. And I just want to add a little bit more of the engagement and the human behaviors of when somebody stressed and breaking up those behaviors. And they all signed off on it. And then next thing I know our dispatch center got one. Then Santa Anna PD called me and said, Hey, we heard what you're doing. We want one. And now I've placed over 70 dogs across the United States through guide dogs of the desert. And we even cortisol imprint them now because I kind of found after you, Volody, that when a dog walks into a critical incident and

22:38there's so much of that odor of cortisol, I mean, the dump of emotions, just everything, you know, day three, those dogs were feeling it. And my motto has always been the dog. Everything's about the dog. And when the dogs are carrying that much, yes, we could take them out and play with them. We can give them time off all that. But how can I make it better? And I called a doctorate Florida State University, a scientist and started talking to him about imprinting cortisol. And why can I make that a positive like we do with narcotics and all the detection dogs, you know, it's a toy. It's a game. And why can't I do that with the cortisol odor? And he said, you absolutely can. And that's what I started doing. And now, so the dogs recognize the odor, they go to the individual. We don't do an alert because I never want to embarrass anybody. But the dogs get it in a positive training environment.

23:44So they gravitate to that odor. And the handler can read it and then start a dialogue with a person, a community member, anybody, hey, how's your day going? And so it's been very, very rewarding. That is interesting in of itself with the cortisol. So let me clarify what you're talking about. So you're imprinting the dogs on the on the signal, on the scent of the cortisol that the person is admitting, I guess. And then they're they're providing quote unquote therapy or support for that person when they feel that that need, if you will. The dog will go to them. And they smell it because in training, they get a treat when they smell that. Okay. And so they'll go to the individual and usually we want a head in the lap, something that just kind of helps the handler, but not a full alert. You know, our detection dogs,

24:47they'll have to do a sit, they'll have to do a final response is what we call it. And we don't require that. We're only imprinting. Because like I said, we really want it to not embarrass. We just want the dog to go and then where a handler can open up a dialogue and that person can pet the dog and the dog stay with them. And during that dialogue, I don't want a dog walking away from the odor. Okay. So we really work that odor because what happens if it's a sexual assault victim that's a child. Yeah. We don't want the dog walking to the door saying, okay, I'm done. We want the dog to stay with that individual and stay engaged. We want that eye contact. We want that nozzle. We really want that. Red that dog can stay with them for that duration of that interview. And are these the situations that you're describing now right now? Are these typical

25:48therapy dog support dog teams, meaning this dog has a primary handler. They go to these places. As you mentioned, like, you know, like a crime victim or the wildfires up in Northern California, is that that sort of thing or these, you know, moving around if you know what I mean dogs. Yeah. Yeah. No. On all the dogs I place personally have been with public safety agencies. Okay. I always prefer a handler. We have have a couple where they are more of a facility, like a couple are in the fire department. But we still require that they have primary one or two handlers that oversee for consistency and things like that. But mainly the majority have a signed handler. Most of the handlers like we have a couple that are in the district attorney's office. Those are usually with victim advocate and that's their handler. I do have, you know,

26:51like a dispatch supervisor as a handler with one of the dogs and the dogs assigned to dispatch. So it can be a variety, but we always want the consistency. Yep. So if we can have, we do have the two handler model. They do have to both have to go through the training and things like that for, you know, and it's for the benefit of the dog and reading the dog. So we do allow that. So, Koby, you talked about placement of all these dogs and I'm looking on the guide dogs of the desert website right now. We're going to put a link over in the show notes. Do you guys do the training there as well? Do you guys have trainers on staff? Is it sort of the way that we do it? Folks that have listened to us a long time know that the handler, whether it's therapy or service work is involved from day one. We don't provide dogs that are already trained and you know, charge them $20,000 or whatever. How does your guys this training system work?

27:57So yes, so same thing. We're a nonprofit and the agencies get to adopt the dog. We actually allow that. We do promote them continual training. The dog has a foundation and they have to come at no cost to do an initial training program with us. Okay, and they stay there at that location or they actually come to bend or get now. Oh, okay. So you come to beautiful bed and we train together and so you get all the initial training and then when you go back, we're always available. We never charge. We're always available, but we understand because we have dogs across United States that if, you know, we do work with other organizations and we support other organizations. So if they're training with another, we're very supportive of that. And we're, we just like to stay involved.

28:59Like please keep us in the loop. How's everything going? And California actually even has a post conference and there's another conference in Oklahoma where we do hope it's we can't make it a rule. But we do hope that the dogs always go for a recertification there. And we are trying to push that in public safety because our detection dogs, our patrol dogs, they all have to be recertified every year. Okay. So we are trying to follow that same. We don't have it yet. I think because there's not enough of them, but we do want to maintain that training standard. And you had mentioned different agencies that you work with district attorneys and fire departments and the whole nine. Is it primarily public safety agencies that you work with or do you do other things like I don't know. Identist office? Yeah, Identist office. That'd be a great one. We did

30:01a therapy dog for Identist office as well. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I have one in Identist office. I have one in an organization for human trafficking. Oh, okay. I have one in an insurance company. So like when your home is flooded or anything like that, they do have a dog when you're filling out all the paperwork. So we do allow it for us. It has to be a working home. That's really what we care more about. Like I said, it's the dog. Always the dog and that that dog is just not a pet because they have so we've put so much training into them. And we do have three of our dogs with the Hunter Lopez Memorial Foundation, which they have placed dogs with survivors from Kabul, the military guys that did survive. And we do have dogs with a couple of the vets also.

31:03Lots of good stuff there. One final question before I jump into the fun questions of the podcast. You had mentioned Kobe that you did a dissertation and the research was on sort of the mental health of public safety officers. Did you include the dogs at all in that or was it strictly human psychology? It was human. I didn't do the support I graduated with my doctorate in 2010. You remember I started the dog part in early 2019. Okay. So I'm sure you use it every day, right? Now I mix it. It was like this path that first being canine and then becoming a trainer and supervisor. I just had no idea where this path was going to go. And it's great. You know what a great way to include your education for long time listeners of the show,

32:03you know that I went through a doctorate program a couple of years ago. And my research was based on family business succession. So taking over after the founders get ready to move on. And of course, I used our own family dog training business as sort of the tipping off point. And what a cool way to use your education on an everyday deal, right? You're doing the same. Exactly. I love it. All right, Kobe, I have some questions here. I let you know them before we started recording. Hopefully you had a chance to think about them. Are you ready? I believe so. Okay. The first one is about music. Who is your favorite artist and song? Jim Carty, time in a bottle. Oh, all right. I like that one. Okay. Next one, I am sure you are a gear junkie if you're in public safety. You probably got all the stuff. Besides your phone,

33:08what is one thing that you always carry with you? Treats. I have treats. Okay. Is it a particular brand of treat? Are they the good smelly kind? What are they? I have Charlie bears in my purse. They don't stink. But even if I see a loose dog out or anything, I have a treat. Okay. All right. Next one is snacks. You're heading out on a road trip. You're pulling into the truck stop. I don't know if you've ever had a chance to visit a buckies or not yet. Of course. But what are you picking up as that guilty pleasure as you hit the open road? Cinnamon bears, if it's a buckies. Okay. If it's a gas station or truck stock, then it's good and plenies. Good and plenies. Oh, have you tried the Willie Wallaby little nugget things are kind of like good and plenies,

34:09but they're sour. Now I have it. Oh my goodness. If you like the good and plenies, you got to check these out. They're in a little yellow package. The Willow Wallabies. I'm looking at them right now. They're sitting on my desk. They're famous for their licorice. You know, their licorice snacks. You got to check these out. Okay. All right. I'll send you a picture of the bag. So you'll never you'll never forget. Okay. Lastly, Kobe, man, what an episode here. I know we're going to put a link to the guide dogs of the desert. Are you active yourself on socials Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, where can folks connect with you? And yeah, Kobe Web on Facebook. And on Instagram, it's Dr. Kobe Web. And is it Dr. spelled out or dr? Just dr. Okay. And we'll definitely put links to all that as well. Kobe, it was a pleasure meeting with you here on the podcast. I know we have a

35:10mutual friend who's been a longtime client since our days in Denver. What a cool conversation. I hope we can do this again. Oh, nice meeting you all. And thank you for your time. Thank you. On behalf of my guest today, this is Robert for dog works radio. We will see you guys next time. From first pa media, this is dog works radio. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we invite you to subscribe and Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You'll find a link on the episode notes. You can tap or swipe on the episode cover art and you'll see some offers from our sponsors. You can support our show by supporting them. If you like what you have heard, we would love it if you could give us a five star rating and tell your friends how to subscribe to. Your hosts are Robert and Michelle Forto. Our producer is Robert Forto and created for first pa media.