Fishermen “cautiously optimistic” about cod stocks in Newfoundland

0:00When you're running a growing business, the right systems can unlock your full sales potential, and make fulfilling every order effortless. Switch to ship station before peak season, so you're prepped and ready before the rush hits. Ship station connects Shopify, Amazon, TikTok Shop, and over 200 more marketplaces with one platform that does it all. You can manage orders, sink inventory, track returns, all automatically. Everything your operation needs, all in one place. Upgrade your shipping operations to stress-proof your biggest sales days and capture every bit of potential revenue. Go to shipstation.com and use code audio and get 30 days free. This is a CBC podcast. Hi, I'm Rebecca Zanbergen, and you're listening to the current podcast. The tide may be turning for Newfoundland's cod fishery. Nobody there forgets 1992 when Ottawa declared a moratorium on cod fishing. That fish was the heart of the province's economy and culture, and overnight nearly 30,000 people lost their jobs. It was the largest layoff in Canadian history. In Bay Bull's angry protesters confronted then fisheries minister John Crosby,

1:03and he shouted right back. In the decades since, Newfoundlanders left to find work in other provinces in the industry's industry. But now cod is making a comeback. Earlier this year, Ottawa declared the stock healthy and raised the commercial quota, the allowable catch by 55%. Here's federal fisheries minister, Joanne Thompson speaking to CBC radios, the broadcast. I can tell you, I remember the devastation and what it looked like in those years. And so, to be in a place that I'm able to say the health of the stock is such that we can see increases across all aspects of northern cod fishery. That's a remarkable day. But the good news comes with challenges, ensuring the stocks stay healthy, finding people to catch

2:06all that fish and getting younger folks to join an aging profession. David Meyer is a deck hand on the Dalton's pride in Admiral's Beach, Newfoundland and Labrador. He's in St. John's today. Lilian Saul is an inshore owner operator who fishes cod, crab, and lobster in twilling gate. Good morning to you both. Good morning, Vega. Lilian, how is business these days? I bought my enterprise. This will be my third season ending my third season soon. And the last three years have been awesome. I never imagined how good it could be the last three years. And like my first year, I thought was awesome, but each year since then, it's only gotten better. This year has been absolutely stellar. So I can say only good things about the state of the fishery right now. And speaking of young people in the industry, you bought this when you were 27 years old and got into this. You're from the US. So how did you at such a young age find yourself in Newfoundland at operating your own boat? Well, it's a very long story. I started fishing when I was 20. I started

3:12fishing as a summer job in Maine, lobster, and after I graduated university, I started doing it full-time, mostly just to save up money. But soon became clear to me that I really did not want to stop fishing. And I was lucky enough to find a job in Alaska, fishing, soccer, salmon, and Bristol Bay for a couple months of the year. So I was doing lobsters and also that. And I continued to fish in Alaska after moving to Newfoundland. I knew I needed to change. So I was a researcher at Munn. And I finished my masters, but I knew that wasn't for me. I wanted to be out on the water. And when I was applying for my permanent residency, I wasn't allowed to leave Canada. So that's when I started fishing in Newfoundland. And it became, I was totally captivated by the fishing here just because it was the only place I ever fished where you could do multiple different fisheries from one boat and from one place. And that, and I knew that was like, that this was the thing for me because it was just way more exciting than for instance, fishing lobsters all year round. That was kind of the point when I decided I'm just going to go all in.

4:15Yeah, David, you're a Newfoundlander. And at first you weren't all in, but you grew up with fishing in the family. You didn't start out in the business, as I've said. Why did you not want to get into it right off the bat? Well, the fishery was certainly always around. I grew up in Torskove, which is a little village on the southern shore of the island. And there was a crap plant there. And my grandfather was a fisherman. My uncle is still a fisherman there now. But at the time, I mean, opportunities were less. The moratorium was still in effect. It's wild to even think that we're talking about a post-moratorium Newfoundland laboratory right now. But here we are. But the opportunities weren't quite there. Like I said, you're talking about the biggest layoff in the history. So I came to St. John's. I went to the university. I worked as a journalist for about 10 years or so, and then moved into political communications. And then kind of through the natural round of layoffs that content

5:16to tend to happen in the industry, an opportunity to open up on my stuff father's boat, and here we are. So it was, you know, a little bit of necessity, but it's surreal to be here in the fishery today. Yeah, surreal. And you said it's wild even been taught to be talking about a post-moratorium era. Like what do you remember growing up? Those people around you and how they talked about the industry, especially young people. Yeah, well, I mean, I was I was two years old. I've been when the moratorium was announced. And I'm actually I went to the middle school in Bables. So when John Crosby made his announcement, that was, you know, well, I mean, talk at the country much less the town, but you can imagine. But yeah, it just wasn't it. You know, it took a dive. It wasn't seen it seen it seen it's something that was not a viable opportunities. Yeah, not necessarily, but here we are. Yeah. And so how do you feel hearing this news that they are, you know, incrementally,

6:16we've seen some changes over the last couple of years about the caught industry? What does it mean to you to know that this has come back? What does it mean for your family to know that it's come back? Well, I mean, it's a big deal. It's it's, you know, there's a bit of cautious optimism. I mean, you know, obviously again, nobody forgets what happened in 1992. So it's exciting news to think that there's a new and Lord knows classic historic, you know, going back thousands of years fishery that, you know, is is is is opening here here again. But obviously, it needs to be well managed. That's the that's going to be, you know, you have to have a stock that's healthy enough to harvest to begin with. So I think that's something that harvesters around here will be keeping a very close eye on. You know, but now we have this whole generation on the boat that I'm on right now. We're we're a fairly young crew. My stepbrothers is the skipper. He's 30 years old. And, you know, there's a lot of experience in in various fisheries around here, but but not so much with cod in particular. So so we have this interesting situation where there's a, you know, there's a there's a boat full of full of newfound landers and you'll learn how to fish cod, which

7:19you know, I mean, we've we've been the experts at all that for so long. So so yeah, it's a very it's a very interesting moment in the fishery. And Lily and you know, you said prices have been good for crab and your your business is going really well these last three years, but there are risks I would take it in in fishing. I mean, it can be unpredictable as we have learned over the years. Like do you go in with cautious optimism as well into the cod industry now? Yes. So the for my first year crab was my biggest fishery. My second year and my third year cod has been my biggest. So cod has been what's really like allowed me to get ahead these last couple of years. And they've allocated an increasing amount of quota to the off-shore draggers. And we know historically that that is what decimated the cod stocks before the 90s. And so to see the government doing that again and to say that it's based on sustainability, it makes no sense to me because the draggers are fishing in the winter time when the cod is on

8:22the spawning grounds, they're all aggregated together. They're extremely vulnerable. And that's our future. That's just not next year's cod fish. That's that's where they make more cod fish. They're spawning. So to to see them allocated an increasing amount of quota to those offshore draggers, and an amount of fish too that is insignificant to those draggers, but extremely significant to new land communities. It was 24 million pounds. 24 million pounds in this year. 24 million is a lot for communities. That money could go really far for us. But for that, that's only a small amount of fish. But that fish is doing such an important thing while they're catching it. We're going to talk a little bit more with the union about the offshore trawlers here in a minute as well. But but Lillian is sticking with fishing. Is this is this your future from here on in? And do you think as we heard from from David, you know, we got to teach newfoundlanders how to fish cod. Do you think there's enough interest out there to get people into this industry? Well, so to answer the first part of your question, I've essentially invested the last 11 years of my life into this.

9:24And the last three years, I've invested all of my savings and all of my time, 365 days of the year into building a life for myself here and into building my enterprise. So in terms of the future, I guess I'm pretty much all in like there's to me, there's no going back at this point. And why would I want to because I've created it. I've worked so hard to create something here that I'm extremely proud of and gives me so much joy. And I feel so blessed to be able to do something that I love and fishing has honestly like given me a purpose. Hmm. David, you know, it is an industry that comes with dangers and you said you got to teach, you know, young people how to do this skill again, but what, but how dangerous is it out there on the water? It's it's as advertised. I believe that there were three fish harvesters through in the province who lost their life, lives this year. You know, it's, you know, when you're out there on the water, it's it's unpredictable. You're there, you know, you're at the at the mercy of nature. You know, there's certain things, you know, to do with the job. You know, when you're unloading pots off the back of a crab boat, there's a rope going overboard. And if you are attached to that rope,

10:28it doesn't matter how important your life suit is. So it's, you know, there's all those risks, you know, you know, you know, no doubt about it, but but at the same time, you know, it is, you know, it is rewarding. You know, obviously, I mean, obviously I'm the financial fronter one, but but there's something there's something really ineffable about being out there on the water. And, you know, it's just you in the, you know, you in the crew and, and, you know, you have a job to do. You know, so it's going to be, yeah, there's there's a lot to overcome there. And in terms of barriers for getting into the industry, adding lily and as you know, I mean, it's an awful lot of money, there's an awful lot of barriers, not only on safety, but like I said, on the financial front, if you want to get in their structure and enterprise, it's it's remarkable to hear. Lily and story, you know, we sure all the all the luck in the world, but for for new people trying to get invested in the industry right now, you know, the costs are extraordinary, the, you know, the loans are huge. And of course, they are to a degree, but it certainly does provide a barrier for

11:28folks, you know, looking, looking to get on their own two feet. Yeah, you know, David, given how we started this interview and hearing the anger during the moratorium years, what does it do? Do you think, and you know, you're from a family that went through this for the psyche of Newfoundlanders to know this injury industry is coming back? Like how do Newfoundlanders feel in this moment? Oh, I guess that's that sense of cost of optimism. I would think is is probably for some form of this there because like I said, once, once bitten, toy shy, no doubt about it, you know, we have to make sure that we have a sustainable stock here, but at the same time, you know, when when the moratorium happened, I think it was there's something like 50,000 people left the province and a lot of those people left from rural Newfoundland and Labrador. So, you know, I mean, I mean, the opportunity here is rural for you know, for the province for the for the people if there's, you know, if this helps inject some more money, you know, get some more people living in rural communities, you know, you know, that's been a real a real cultural driver for our province, you know, no doubt about it for forever. So, you know, if this is an opportunity to do some

12:32re to help revitalize rural Newfoundland Labrador, I mean, I mean, that's a good thing for everybody. Leon, Leon, I'll give you the last word. What would you say to a young person who's considering fishing, giving what, given what we've heard from David about just the cost of getting into into the industry? Well, I can say it's changed a lot in the last three years since I got my enterprise. When I got mine, I was the young person falling gate by 10 years to own an enterprise. Now there's one person who's younger than me and there's at least two or three, there's three definite people looking into getting their enterprise right now. And a lot of that is because of the money that they've made fishing these last few years. So in terms of the cost, yes, it is a high cost to get into it, but getting a fishing enterprise right now, like if a fishing enterprise went up for sale in my fishing area, it would be a job to get your hands on it because there would be a lot of people after that. So I think the economic prosperity that the fishery has brought to these communities has made it like a viable option for livelihood for young people. And a very desirable

13:33one, like having a fishing enterprise is something that young people in my area like is highly sought after. And I see it as highly respected and highly like highly wanted, I guess. It was out. Lily and David, it's been a pleasure speaking with you this morning. Thank you very much for this. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. David Meyer is a deckhand on the Dalton's pride in Admiral's Beach and Lily and Saul, Fish's Cod, Crab and Lobster in Twillingate. Granger for the ones who get it done.

14:33A colossal monster tearing through the streets, a city in ruins, nowhere to hide, until he finds a way out behind the wheel of the all-electric Toyota CHR, instant torque, get away handling and a measurable well factor. John Cho stars in, escape, experience the thrill, test drive Toyota's new all-electric family at your local dealer. Toyota, let's go places. Duanj Street is the president of the Fish Food and Allied Workers' Union. She joins us this morning from St. John's with more on this. Duanj, good morning. Morning Rebecca. How does it feel to hear young people talking excitedly about fishing? Yeah, it's really good. The timing of the conversations is actually great. I'm sitting outside just about the head into the launch of our new entrance program for the fishing industry here at the Rooms in St. John's this morning. And we've got about 50 young folks who either are currently in the fishing industry or are interested in getting

15:40into the fishing industry. So it's an exciting time for sure. So this is like a teaching program for people getting into it. Yeah, we talk a lot about the moratorium and I think after the moratorium, there's so much doom and gloom and fernoth. I mean, I'm a moratorium kid too, right? I was 10 when the moratorium happened and my father's a fish officer, my community fishing is all we had. And after the moratorium, I don't really think we did a good enough job really promoting the fishery as it continued to rebound and grow. And there hasn't been a whole lot of positivity when you're talking about the messaging around the industry. So this program does exactly that and we're hoping to get out into schools and career fairs and really talk to young folks, talk to new Canadians, talk to anybody who wants to come back to Newfoundland and really promote the fishing industry as a viable source of employment. And this program, thanks to our provincial government pumping some funding

16:42into is going to help us do that really promoted. You know, lifting the moratorium is also about having a healthy fish stock. I felt healthy cod fish stock. And so how does that label that healthy label square with what fishermen are seeing out on the water in your mind? Yeah, so back in 2016, when we started to see the stock go and upwards trajectory, I think everybody was super super cautious. And of course, the insure harvesters, they're the ones that have nursed this stock back to health since 92. And of course, they were the ones standing in the alarm before 92 that this stock was in trouble. So everybody, of course, wants to ensure that going forward, we harvest the stock sustainably and that cod is what brought us here and that we're going to be able to ensure this stock maintains its healthy status. And the last few years, what harvesters have been seeing on the water is absolutely incredible. I mean, the fish is great quality. Catch rates are great. And it's really making a difference in rural Newfoundland this year is the first year that I've

17:44heard that like that bit of excitement about it. Right. We did hear some concern from Lillian, who's worried about the increase to offshore trawlers. These are the big commercial boats that go out in deeper waters. Do you worry that there's a risk of repeating the overfishing that caused sort of the original stock collapse? Absolutely. I mean, we continued to advocate that offshore traggers are fish hunters, right? They're fish killers. And I've heard Dr. George Rose, who's probably the biggest expert on Northern cod say that a million times. So we are constantly trying to push with the minister that we absolutely cannot watch the share for offshore traggers increase. And we saw that last year actually because there was an 80-20 split between the inshore and offshore last year that went to 70-30. And it's not acceptable. We really, really want to stress that it's the inshore fishery that harvests this stock. Stated Lillian was 100% right. That these

18:46traggers, they're fishing on fish when they're aggregated. We saw it in 3PS on the south coast. Of course, that's cod stock right now is absolutely decimated. And we're trying to tell government, you really, really need to be careful because we cannot repeat the mistakes of the past. You know, one of the things that you're most interested in, we've talked about it a little bit, is about trying to recruit more people to get into the industry. I understand your union says about a third of the provinces fishermen are older than 54. Many are expected to retire in the next decade. So as you're working to entice people into the industry, how difficult is that? Knowing that many of them have over the years, they've created this move from the province and have found work other places. Yeah, what we're seeing though is a lot of interest. A lot of calls to the office, the certification board downstairs, folks interested in coming home. And I actually spoke to a young harvester yesterday who just moved back because I mean, I grew up in Merle, Newfoundland, Labrador, living in the city now, but I wouldn't trade much childhood for the world. And we're seeing a lot

19:47of folks really interested in coming back and raising their families back in their communities, because one of the things we're trying to really promote with the fishery is you're your own bus, you're in nature, you get to live in Merle, Newfoundland, Labrador. And it's such, you know, don't want to romanticize it, but it's such a great lifestyle. And after the moratorium, we saw thousands and thousands and thousands of people leave and just entire communities that empty that folks never came back. But we're hearing people now saying, you know, I want to come back to my home. I want to come back, you know, you might have been five or six or seven when you left, but you remember that and you remember that life and you want to raise your children and raise your family there. So there's a pair to that as well. And with the state of the fishery right now and all the positivity and the hope, I think there's a real opportunity here. We're looking at about 2,500 vacancies. We figure in the next 10 years, retirements. So there's an opportunity here for a lot of folks. Okay. Dohan St. have a good meeting this morning. Thank you for this. Thank you so

20:49much. Dohan St. is the president of the fish food and allied workers union. And she was in St. John's. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.