Extra: Cure Cancer or Kill Us All? An AI Reality Check

0:00Nicky Glazer, this stunning tour. The thoughts of death I don't like to dwell on them for longer than like 10 or 15 hours a day, so... November 19th, Yamavath Theater. No wonder women rushed to have kids were being trained for it since we were kids. They're like, here's a baby doll. Here's an easy-bait coffin. I got one of those. I stuck my head in it. I was like, I want out of this narrowness. Tickets on sale now at Yamavath Theater.com. Don't miss Nicky Glazer. Yamavath Theater. Ryan Reynolds here from Midmobile. The message for everyone paying Big Wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything goodness world stop. With Mid, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpay no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at Midmobile.com slash switch. Up front payment of $45 for three month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intra rate for three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Seafull turns at Midmobile.com.

1:00I'm Lydia Hu from the Fox Business Rundown every Monday and Friday. We cut through the noise to help you figure out what matters for your money. Subscribe to the Fox Business Rundown podcast on Apple Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. This is the Fox News Rundown Extra. I'm Dave Anthony. Today, AI or super intelligence like President Trump wants us to call it now. He has been pushing back on a push for Congress to impose new regulations. And for some industry leaders had warned that guardrails are needed to prevent AI from going rogue and dangerously out of control after recent incidents of AI agents doing things they're not trying to do. Including cyber attacks. Some CEOs of AI and tech companies went to the White House the other day and signed an agreement to self police the technology as the president keeps saying he does a one government to stifle AI development, which he says would benefit China.

2:06We talked about all that with a technology futurist Jamie Metzel who's written books including super convergence and what he had to say was very interesting. However, we had to trim some of it out of the regular run down podcast we posted because we have time constraints. We also make that podcast into a radio show for our affiliates across the country. Luckily, we have these extras giving us as much time as we need to let you hear entire interviews with our guests and we post to them every weekend. So we invite you to come back for more. Please check out the run down during the week to subscribe if you like and thank you if you have. Now Jamie Metzel on the Fox News rundown extra. Joining us again on the Fox News rundown is Jamie Metzel as we focus on artificial intelligence or as president Trump wants us to say super intelligence and the technology and the concerns of it going out of control.

3:08The author of numerous books, including super convergence and the AI 10 commandments. He's a futurist for technology and founder of one shared world Jamie good to have you back on. Thank you. Thank you so much Dave. Happy to be with you. So the president's going to sit down with more industry leaders. He continues to focus on AI. He talked about it last week with China's leader at the White House. The president can say keep saying that he doesn't want to stifle this competition. How important is meeting a meeting like this and these kinds of gatherings with the president involved. So it's critically important. America's technological innovation and our technological leadership is essential, but it can't happen in a vacuum. We have to have collaboration between businesses, universities, governments, and we need to have a governance and regulatory system that can achieve our ends of optimizing our competitiveness enhancing the capabilities of the systems that we're building, but do it in a safe way.

4:12That supports our national interests and our population. And so that's it's a balance and it requires a lot of communication. You know what people in the industry for the last several weeks, these leaders from open AI and the topic, they keep talking about how there have to be guardrails put in place and they're seeming to ask for Congress to to get involved and others who said, well, you created the stuff. Why don't you try to figure out the guardrails. So where are you on that? Well, we need governance. We need guardrails. We need regulation. These are very, very powerful world changing technologies and it would be insane to say, well, we should just let the technology companies do whatever they want, just like we wouldn't let the nuclear companies do whatever they want. And so it's totally appropriate. We're a little bit behind the curve with governance and regulation because of the philosophy, particularly of the Trump administration of let's get out of the governance business and into the acceleration business.

5:13And on frankly, I'm all for acceleration, but it needs to be wise careful acceleration. If we have willy-nilly dangerous acceleration, just releasing models out into the wild, not knowing what harm they might do, that would obviously be bad. There's been a push for Congress to do this regulation, but they're also, I mean, we're only about five weeks from elections. So it's a very political moment. And Republicans have said that a lot of these AI leaders are leftist and this is a plot by Democrats to hurt Republicans in November on this very issue on these kinds of things. So how do we move forward? And how does Congress do this? Because politics are really hard to navigate. I don't know whether the people calling for regulation are leftists. Now Elon Musk, who was president, Trump's BFF, is also calling for some kind of regulation and some kind of governance. And look, this is not it shouldn't be a partisan issue.

6:16Everybody should be on board for saying America needs to lead the AI revolution. And frankly, every technological revolution, but we need to do it responsibly and safely. And so if we have the best models in the world, but our societies break down or the models are used in dangerous ways that hack our businesses or undermine our societies or and break into our secure government systems, that's obviously not good. So everybody is recognizing that as these systems become more powerful, we need to have wise governance systems. And that doesn't mean we need to do what Europe has done. I mean, Europe has shackled itself with over regulation while not being economically and competitive in broadways, including and technologically competitive with the development of AI. So we don't want to do that. But if we just say no regulation, no governance, let's see where this goes. That's literally playing with fire and we're going to get burnt.

7:18Nicky Glazer, this stunning tour, the thoughts of death. I don't like to dwell on them for longer than like 10 or 15 hours a day. So November 19th, Yamavath Theater, no wonder women rushed to have kids were being trained for it since we were kids. They're like, here's a baby doll. Here's an easy bake oven. I got one of those. I stuck my head in it. I was like, I want out of this narrative tickets on sale now at Yamavath theater dot com. Don't miss Nicky Glazer, Yamavath Theater. So I want to hear from Bill Gates, Microsoft co founder, he talked about this and NBC's Meet the Press on Sunday and why he thinks that the government has to get involved here. There's never been a weapon as powerful as the combination of people with ill intent using the latest AI tools. He suggests that the potential exists for a billion people to be killed. And so, the other AI leaders have said that humanity could be wiped out. He called it a weapon. Are we going too far with this? I mean, you're an optimist. You believe in AI and you believe in in this technology and how well it's going to do for our humanity. So when you hear this.

8:34Well, certainly that he's absolutely right that if AI is used badly, we could easily imagine a billion people being killed and you can even outline scenarios for how to do it. You and I Dave have spoken at length about COVID-19 origins. I believe COVID-19 stems from a lab accident in China. But imagine that somebody was saying or some lab or some country was saying we want to have a synthetic bio pathogen that is designed to kill a billion people. I mean, it just seems more likely now than it was 10 years ago. That's for sure. So there are very, very real dangers and there are very, very real opportunities. And frankly, that's the same as it's been with a whole lot of things that we have encountered from nuclear powered chemical and biological weapons and other capabilities. And that's exactly why we need regulation and governance. If we said after in 1945, if we said, well, now we've seen the first manifestation of nuclear power at scale was Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If we had said, right, now we need a complete moratorium because we know that nuclear power can lead to these deadly outcomes.

9:55We would have really been harming ourselves. That's not what we said. What we said is how do we optimize the benefits of these very powerful technologies and minimize the harms. And that's something that we can do. But we need to do it now and that we need to do it with governance systems, which are more broadly broad than regulation really at every level of society. And we need regulation. And we can have wise regulation. And if we do it, if we do have wise regulation, we can get the incredible benefits that we all want better health care, more productive agriculture, all the things that I write about in my book, super convergence. And we can minimize the possibility of these of these terrible downsides that we can easily imagine. And but the downsides aren't going to go away just like there have been downsides of our ancestors controlling fire a million years ago, our ancestors, domesticating plants and animals more more recently. There's always an upside and there's always a downside of technology. The name of the game for us is how do we optimize the benefits and minimize the harms.

10:59Okay, well, how can an active Congress stop bad people from trying to do bad things with AI? I mean, it seems like that would be out of Congress's hands, right? I mean, isn't it up to the technology and the companies themselves to prevent that? It's really up to everybody. We need to have wise governance and regulation here. We need to have man transparency and audits and mandatory incident reporting and capabilities based regulation. We need an AI oversight agency of some sort. We need to thought to work with other countries like we've done in nuclear to make sure that every country has the framework, we need international systems. And we need responsible companies. So it's not an either or if our companies are doing terrible things. If we have a company that's unleashing an AI bot that is doing harm in the world in some way. That company needs to be held liable. And if there is a foreign adversary that is doing something terrible, we need to fight against them, which is exactly what we've done and tried to do with foreign adversaries who've been trying for many years to develop chemical and and use chemical and biological weapons, nuclear weapons.

12:18So there's a feeling every time at moments like this to say we're in a whole new world and our entire history of humanity is not relevant here, but that's just not the case. We know how to do things. We know how to govern and regulate very complicated, very powerful technologies. And perfectly, we've done it in other contexts like with nuclear. But it's for sure the case that if we do nothing now and we just say, well, this is ungovernable because we do live in a decentralized world because these companies have incredible powers. If that's what we say, it's going to be a self fulfilling prophecy. Nick Eglaser, this stunning tour, the thoughts of death, I don't like to dwell on them for longer than like 10 or 15 hours a day. So November 19th, Yamavath Theater, no wonder women rushed to have kids were being trained for it since we were kids. They're like, here's a baby doll. Here's an easy bake oven. I got one of those. I stuck my head in it. I was like, I want out of this narrative tickets.

13:20On sale now at Yamavath theater dot com. Don't miss Nick Eglaser, Yamavath Theater. So last week, Xi Jinping, China's leader, is that the White House, the president, Trump talking about a hotline between the US and China on AI and if something went wrong, some house, someone is going to call and warn the other. But is that realistic? I mean, we have a lot of distrust with China. We're going to do a competition with China on AI. We already had as we referenced the issues with China and COVID and we don't trust what really happened back then. So how do we think there's going to be some kind of cooperation here? Well, a hotline, excuse me, a hotline is a pretty easy thing to do. I mean, whatever it is, this imagine it's like the old red phone. Like you don't have to have a lot of trust to have a hotline. We had it with the Soviet Union during the during the Cold War. But let's let that be a starting point. We need to have incident reporting. We need to have a lot of things.

14:21And you and I have talked about it. Am I have significant massive distrust of the Chinese state, the Chinese government killed 47 million of its own citizens since since 1949 is doing terrible things around the world. And undermining the international system in many, many different ways. Excuse me. But you know, we're entering this new age, this new AI age where there's significant risks. And so and China is developing very, very powerful capability. So we need to have some kind of relationship with China. We need to see what's possible. We're not going to nothing is going to be based on complete trust. Nothing is going to be based on believing that China is going to be acting in our best interests. They are not. But we need to start somewhere and I think a hotline is, you know, is at least something so much negative with AI lately. People worried about their job being taken away. People worried about their kids not learning because all they're doing is type of, you know, have AI do their work for them.

15:25And and also interpersonal. Hey, I can have a chatbot be my friend. And then I don't have to actually talk to people. So why are you optimistic that artificial intelligence is great. So how do you rebut those fears to in addition to all the other ones? Yeah, well, there's no reason to rebut those fears. I mean, there's a reason why anxiety and fear have been preserved by evolution for billions of years. Our anxieties and our fears are our way of saying, hey, there are real dangers out there. And what can we do to prevent them from being realized? So that's what we what we need to do. And we've gone, I mean, America, we're we're a bit over the top. We went from November of 22. We had this giddy enthusiasm about AI that with the these chatbots are going to save us and save everything in about six months ago. We went completely the other way they're going to kill us. And the truth of the matter is somewhere in between America, the humans are not going to be extincted by 2030 as some of the tech bros have been saying saying recently.

16:35And so the fears are real, the hopes are real. And again, the question for us is not, are we going to live in a utopia? Or are we all going to be wiped out within a few years? The question is we have this very powerful technology. What can we do to increase the odds of the kind of optimal outcomes that we want and decrease the odds of the kind of terrible outcomes that we can imagine. And knowing that as we move forward, there are going to be some really amazing things, curious for cancer and other diseases and all kinds of wonderful things. And those are already happening. And there are going to be some bad things that are going to happen. So we need to prevent them. We need to recognize that bad things will happen with this technology as with every technology for the last million years since our ancestors controlled fire. And how do we manage those and how do we build the kinds of systems that we need to support us? So is health advancement perhaps the biggest possible gain we get out of artificial intelligence maybe?

17:43It's certainly one. And I write about that at length in super convergence. I had a major feature in AARP magazine actually describing how I and we used these technologies to extend my late father's life by about probably two years during his fight with cancer. So these are miraculous technologies in health. But it's across the board. I mean agriculture. We've quadrupled the human population over the last century because of technology and we're going up probably to about 10 billion humans within the next few decades. And if we try to feed these people who are going to be wealthier wanting to have diets like ours. If we try to feed them just using the same forms of agriculture that we have today we're going to have to cut down all of our forests and destroy all the wild places on earth. So we have to significantly increase agricultural productivity and these tools can help us do that. They can help us grow new materials like synthetic spider silks or natural spider silks grown in a different way that can revolutionize how we think about production and industrial materials.

19:01We can store data for millions of years in DNA using these capabilities as opposed to the 30 to 50 years on magnetic tape, which is mostly what we're doing now. So it's a really exciting story. And there are dangerous downsides and again the story for us is not going all in on the positive story or all in on the negative story but recognizing that both of these are our possibilities. We're going to get some of the great stuff. We're going to get some of the terrible stuff. But how do we move the needle more in the direction of great and that's the hard work we need to do now. Jamie Metzl is founder of one shared world. You can read his work in books like Super Convergence and also the AI 10 Commandments a new moral code for humanity. Jamie, thank you so much for being here great to get your insight. My great pleasure anytime.

20:07I'm a member of the show AdFree on Amazon Music and for up to the minute news go to Fox News dot com. I was like I want out of this narrative tickets on sale now at Yamabah theater dot com. Don't miss Nicky Glaser Yamabah theater.