Episode 330: Walla-B Team for the Boks

0:00Music How did everyone? It's Andrew and Ed tonight on the Elite Rugby Inter Show. We just have two of us tonight and we are going to be previewing some new tournaments. We've just wrapped up the Rugby's greatest rivalry, of course. My esteemed colleagues gave you a bumper episode last week. I really enjoyed that and on that panel last week was Ant. Thanks for making the time. How are you doing? I'm good. I'm glad that some of our pod problems actually do listen to the pod when we're not present. It's good quality review. Glad you found it a high-class episode. Or maybe I'm just putting my words in your mouth now. But there's definitely what you said off here. I might have disagreed somewhat with how badly you guys painted Richie Mahunga.

1:02I mean, I think he was absolutely smashed on occasion, but he also had his moments to mind-line. But those are bygones now because we're moving forward with the spring box. We've had a week's break. This last weekend we didn't have any rugby which felt very strange. After being absolutely absorbed for the last seven or eight weeks in Rugby's greatest rivalry. We now have a one-off game against the one of these. But before we get to that, we have a kickoff of our favourite draft tournament, the URC. A whole new season. Of course, on this podcast, we'd like to focus on the staff in teams. So starting at the bottom and the sharks underperform last year. I'm feeling more optimistic this season. Do you share my optimism? I mean, you kind of have to be fair. Like, they played. Oh, well, I've already under their potential given their squad last season.

2:05Like, you really kind of have to feel that they're going to be better this year than they will last year. There's not the first time that's been said about the sharks over the last couple of seasons. So, you know, one can hold optimism and hope that this will be a good season. But yeah, it's really difficult to really kind of fully predict where they're going to be. I mean, at the end of the URC fairly well last year, especially considering they're with, you know, blooding guys like Moia and Cia and like really giving a lot of the lure. Feeling a mere like giving guys chances. And they're still putting in some pretty pretty strong performances. It's a kind of since JPMC to go that's been seems to been going better. But, you know, the first time there's a proper preseason and all the players coming through. We will see. And obviously there's talks about pretty spring, more KV roster. Who won't be available for the first time in the tournament. Will that actually be a help or hindrance? You know, do you kind of do you think the sharks are relying on so many building squadrons and which one looks as actually being kind of like the downfalls?

3:13It has in this short couple of years we've had under Masati and the whole new investment group in that and bringing in the likes of it's a bit Kaleesi and Bonambi. And I didn't quite herald this new era for the star studded sort of champion team that I think the investors were looking for. We've definitely seen an uptick since plum tree moved on and JB Peterson took over and it looks like it is. A bit of a change in the dressing room and the approach to the off the field stuff as well. And I think one of their key signings in that regard is going to be the veteran or black manonu. I mean you guys on last week's episode hailed his counterhucker as one of the moments of the series which I actually thought was fire like that wasn't epic moments or drag B. What do you think his influence is going to be and then also some of the other shock signings that they've made?

4:15Yeah, I mean look I don't think he's being signed to be the starting inside center that I think he's there to bring that element of kind of professionalism and experience and maybe play that kind of late career mentor role. Maybe they're hoping some of that. That's brought that haven't you know I think like. It's tough when you are a guy like a seer or even or a donkey or ox or one of the 400 spring boxers socks. And particularly those late late late kind of spring box that like really they've done. I don't know if they've done with it needed to a club level because like you know most of them haven't had exactly the plethora of experience sort of success at club level but like they're so successful stream of level that like club levels kind of arguably could be understandable to be just not that important to them. You know I think it's different to the storm is where you've got guys like Sasha and the Lums and stuff and guys that are still like. Kind of playing to prove themselves in the spring box environment in the weird way like obviously the Lums is you know one tool cups and stuff but like.

5:16And he's still young enough that like he's got that kind of push to prove himself whereas guys like an even or a bong he like. Better Vincent the Trevor like better need to prove it anyone like everyone knows that they're in a part of that dynasty. We're someone like a non who didn't because he's passed that he doesn't have the international going to go back to. And he has just been a few chat to listen to any kind of commentary about him he is just the utmost professional is in the German Friday and practicing his passing at 44 like. That's the kind of role model you want to see someone that puts professionalism into every aspect of his game and really something that the someone of the junior plays can learn from and bring the kind of professionalism and like both said standards that. The racial squad can follow you've got experience guys like Vincent to two kids of the being kind of around the cap and see says but like they're not super experienced heads. That you build the team around because they haven't had that kind of success with that senior or to you that like proper.

6:19Yeah I suppose. Professional environment like from a winning culture perspective and I've gone through so yeah I think I think he's a really good signing from that perspective if that's what they build them around and from what it sounds like that's what he brings so that is very exciting I think that could hopefully be kind of a little bit of a missing piece there. Yeah hopefully that's a good sign I mean they've got a couple other journey and signings and I want to super exciting and you know guys like different ways that you are like the Thomas the toys obviously you know the top of signing but yeah a lot of these guys they're just not going to be super present there and there about you know like a Jason Jenkins and those different ways of talking about partnership that's so that's cool. But that's not going to like make or break the team necessarily. I don't even think with the. Younger meal from here and there that the Vs is necessarily going to get that much game time anyway I thought from here to deserves a spot and squad so it's not like that you just going to go straight to step from the Vs.

7:23He's I think 34 35 somewhere there also such words end of his career. We'll see how they go at least get some some depth there you know past corner all the sharks are lacking a bit when it's a bit is away also more than I even moved on. We played like half a game for them I'll see some sure since I looked like. Wasn't exactly present. Yeah I read Milford near the nothing will probably see him in a box jersey at some point maybe that's a hot take I don't know but he's been good to my eye. But he hasn't when he's 26 now he hasn't really kind of hit the levels that we were hurting him to. That's a 22 year old. Yeah, I see might be one of those later later genuine from works but I think like I think the exciting thing for the sharks is that kind of like a lot of that use coming through the backline like you've got this feels like it's kind of the season that a guy like a mojo. Yeah, obviously you know both of them only got a handful of cast but even someone like a hooker during the Julius.

8:26You have y'all Williams like there's a lot of really young talent in that backline. That you really feel like this is the season that they can kind of actually kind of all most of them really like properly break through and get consistent starts and really play like properly good rugby. I think that's quite quite exciting that if that's can be the breaks for them you know the forward pack I still think they would like proper dominant carrier like I've got a lot of those kind of like wide channel range you guys you know both it's to go brothers Pepsi you know they're all kind of similar you pay as you know the sharks if they could get anyone maybe maybe there's a fun exercise. We can go through any of the teams like I reckon the shark would love to get a genre of gustas just get a proper game line monster for the full pack we said it really have. I think that would make a make a very big difference to their team. When is the last time sharks had one of those kind of players I mean if I think of sharks let's watch I think of.

9:32Can Kowsky Keegan Daniel like that all these range like ball ball shot Jason's probably like. The last proper one and that was a that was a long time ago. The general on super strong in the game line from that perspective and you know that maybe that's that's a part of the reason that they haven't been overly successful at the last you know while. Yeah I think yeah I would say that if if the sharks would pull anyone from the UIC probably journal gustas is close to the top of that list yeah I wonder. If we might not see under Easter hazen that. I mean that that would well I mean the city plays that role from center when he's playing but you know like it's obviously spend a lot of time away from the box so that doesn't really help. So you want some of this kind of like not quite in that that that that. Swim or cleanse and I think we've probably covered enough on the sharks now who is the next was at the Lions.

10:34I think so and so yeah from the Lions perspective I mean they have a pretty intact squad. They haven't had any sort of notable signings that were born fencer in from Edinburgh who I think will be a stabilizing force but. They weren't lacking for quality there with young a straight quarter who had a really breakthrough season last last year. It was really really good I felt so they're going to be sure. We'll push out try against all blacks one fencer or a straight boxer. I'll leave that to you. Yeah so they have a pretty intact squad they've also been playing a few more of their players in the current cup and we saw against the all blacks. They gave them the best run for their money arguably so they're looking like a pretty cohesive unit at the moment which at the start of the season is often the challenge right.

11:36You might have a really good team on paper but you want your you guys be playing in a you know rugby over eights you know high chemistry level kind of kind of way so. I've always enjoyed the way the Lions play I suppose I have to support them as a second team now I've had seven years in job work so you know it's probably about time. Haven't bought the jersey yet but maybe when they release a when they release a leko on the subject of jerseys that stormers away jersey is calling my name. It's definitely going to have to be my. Finally the one that breaks breaks my pedals back and gets it. But before we get to the line the lines of plates and liquor every day the problem is always just you know clinching the results especially on the road. But they have a really good side and they have another season behind them. A couple of young players coming through like Ethan Adams they've signed a sudden worse from stormers who will probably get some game time now that Hush and Pied is left which we'll get to and we took about the stormers what are your predictions for the Lions this season.

12:50You know I mean the Lions are tough because you they've got the cohesiveness on the one side but they just don't really have that huge amount of proper star power that you kind of really need to go deep in a composition like this you know if you just compare like the squads of the Lions just to say a lense or the bulls or the stormers or I mean even the sharks like man for man they just aren't often quite at that level and you know. They are they punch really well for just quite that they've got but it just feels that they do do kind of struggle when really kind of push comes to the show like in a proper kind of clinch moments you know as you say when they travel overseas they seem to struggle more so than some of the other teams. Yeah so and you say you say when push comes to shove and I mean I take that quite literally like their their problem I think is in the tight five right there they locks they've lost an ET in the worst days and and that feels like a big loss for them but ET in the worst days and any other union wouldn't be a factor.

13:55Yeah they wouldn't really think of it as not exactly like it's a they they do rely on like a couple of court players really kind of carry the team in a way and yeah so I think it's it's it's they they kind of seem to do that team it's always pushing for like fourth to eighth rather than ever first to fourth yeah and that's not a not a criticism on them it's just. That's just kind of that the level that they are sitting at I mean that the John Coons of the world probably would support the lines if they were South African said they play that style of rugby they play that open running exciting high scoring free you know player kind of game and they have some of the players to suit that as well I mean in their loose forwards you. Just saying with the sharks they filled with these these guys who are link players and runners and you think of guys like freck you horn.

14:58See what my heart share who I think is going to have a phenomenal season big tips on him for the season even like back in the day guys like yuck a cril you know they were like. Like you were saying John Dacel's they like player players they have highlight real kind of moments but the you know hitting hitting rack off the rack and making tech go off the tackle and and doing the dark arts not necessarily the lion's strength. Yeah actually they kind of like a work rate you know they're a bunch of guys trying to push above their push above themselves. The blacky and the dogs exactly like it's a harsh way to describe them but it does kind of just that's always been the lion's motive you know and any of them that in occasion you do punch above their weights and you just get snapped up by someone else. Yeah I mean obviously more Nathan Berger's had a really good last few weeks of spring box and is probably one of their key players along with Q and Horn who's finally getting a shot for the box.

16:07I mentioned to you in my heart share I think the other guys Nicostaine in absence of more Nathan a big he was really good against the all blacks and for a couple of seasons has been putting together really consistent performances. He's impressed me he's a former babybok. Yeah and I think with with Hush and Pete out the way of competing for minutes I think Nicostaine could be another factor this season any other players or do you want to move on to someone else. I mean they've brought butter honey is proper he's a proper monster he's probably been more in that their genre is the type of all they can still you know range anyone's to. But yeah like I think it's it's more they're interesting to see how they balance you know like if the carny and around. Remember we were we're in the center of stand I come but then plus Vinzo plus JC do Jesper Tories you know they've got so many and then Mahase like they've got so many like.

17:14Create blues for it's it's how do you balance and give them all sufficient game time across the season but I think the Nicostaine one's quite quite good because like you only obviously the cracking game. It's all blacks and. But I really hope that somebody like just like we said about the sharks out the backs or centers and other backs I really hope that. Penta very can kind of a proper on the season and like finally kind of deliver on his potential to you know. He's been long overdue really kind of cracking it at the top level. He definitely has a potential and he's kind of shown that in games here and there but having that injury free you know six or seven weeks in a row of great performances is alluded him. As as the springbok jersey he's had a couple of call ups to training camps and lineman camps but never quite made the squad for a game so. Maybe this is the year we'll see I didn't see that some. Here you can yeah also got called up to train with the springboks which is an interesting interesting call to me.

18:18I'd never really noticed him before but again he jolt pretty well against all blacks to be fair. I think said I mean I don't know if it was ever like you know proper we actually going to consider you versus just a you know you hear the kind of run run shapes. So let's just do a practice that like I mean look 13 this one works is definitely. Probably along with hooker up biggest weakness like we just don't have anyone identified that's really stepped up in that role like you know we've tried really. We've tried a bunch of guys hooker but none of them have really properly. Blended as springbok level you know so like some of the tween are Julius or a hanko or you know even he's hooker if they decide it's more than 13 and 12 like that 13 years. I think is up for grabs despite just a real saying we want to push on until the 2013 one will cup. Then I think that that's the one that that's people going to be pushing for so. Yeah I think I really does this is then a kind of when you just start putting your name in that hat and that ring trying to take that jersey.

19:21Definitely agree to see there. Jason Krill won't be around forever and we we had a look on your arm at the sort of top into the game for a few years and maybe took that for granted and we've been exposed that the depth under that is a little bit thin. Alright so that's that's the lines I think we sort of thinking mid to upper table for them. I think we're probably being harsh on them discussing them second because didn't they win the ASS shield. Yeah but they still would be having a song like. So do we go stormers or bulls next your choice. And then stormers probably based on finishing final finishing points. Yeah alright. And then we can get you you know you need to set up actually two fair talking points which is a P and the new jersey. Two separate things don't pee on the new jersey. No please don't then discreet the black like that.

20:24Yeah I thought that that unveiling of the stormers jersey was just such an epic moment of such a hawk back to you. Time spent as a kid on the young pick-up stadium at Newlands watching you know Peter and Chris were so and break the porcelain Bob skin stud and Robbie flick and all these folks who were childhood here as a mind. So for people around my age or older that men in black phase is is holds real nostalgic value and might hold some cash value as well depending on. Decisions in the next couple of weeks but yeah that was really cool I'm looking forward to seeing the storms in black again. It feels like part of our identity that's been lost for a little bit behind the hoops and this new logo and all of that. So I'm glad they've given the fans something the diehard fans something to hawk back to the old days. Yeah in terms of significant signings stormers have pulled a little bit of a sharks move and signed a few spring box that are towards the end of their career.

21:26Not including Pete in that obviously he's right at the start but Chaselon, Sierra, Wilcollo. Guys are very established spring box and I'm not going to play the majority of games because they're going to be away for the box for nation's championship and after this game in Australia etc. It's that Mr. Preseason but a couple of solid signings there I think Sierra's initially when he was signed this he's going to play a sort of player coach kind of role. I think the way that Sierra's playing in a box Jersey gives me a bit more optimism that he's going to play more active role in the field. I mean he's 100% still got the energy and anger. Yeah but you've also got pulled of the liars. So yeah I mean it's a good deal. It's great that you've got all guys that will come into the fold that will push the standards. So I mean it's just this interesting to a conversation with Sam Kearn about Jason Colby and he says that what he does in training is just the most ridiculous stuff he says like often.

22:38Like at some point you just just assume it's normal but you come in as a fresh into that theme environment and you just like how and if anyone doing this and the rest of the guy's like yeah that's that's just Chaselon. And you know which is so yeah I think like you know he still kind of pushes himself up our day of training and that's again really going to be really good stuff you know and there's the squad and hopefully that that's brought us positively on guys like that. As opposed to whatever it is that. Warholand keeps rubbing off on him. Yeah it's got to it's got to feel a bit weird for Paul the Villiers playing behind. See a Kaleesi and Dion Ferry who collectively are 75. Three times his age in the tree. Yeah but in look Dion Ferry is just going to be injured for the whole storm of season and then just come back the next time we have to play the whole black and a quarter final and just beat them again. So you know it's fine. But yeah like look I mean see as see as not going to play that much for the storm of just be honest like it's just like you never played that much for the sharks and.

23:44I don't think it's going to hamper pool the videos career development too much to be honest and like any storm is biggest problem over the last 10 years has been in man management you know they kind of play guys into the ground and they get injured and they never really kind of rush them back too soon and they kind of stay injured. And so having a couple of more options available in one position is not the worst thing. You know so that means that like guys like see her and Dion Ferry and Paul that there is all kind of get right head a little bit more and now then there's no pressure to necessarily force one of them to play and they can actually kind of like. Manage their own workloads and stuff appropriately then that's that seems like a good thing. Yeah yeah I think that the area where the storms are probably the lightest is in the locks. Obviously we lost some armor up to her I didn't lament leaving but then when Ruben from here and also left it did leave us a little bit lighter we've got. Ardresmith and JD Shickling as the outnarts you know leading in four and five and then Riley Norton and.

24:51Uh corner Evans and maybe Ben Jason Dixon has a stretch and then who's. It's quite a drop off after after those first two or three names so if there are a couple of key injuries there we definitely might be exposed but. In the front row we got depth background we got depth scram off obviously we had. Dovon Archer retire we had Unger and Jude we had him I can't injured we had Cubus Rhinoc away with the box so Hush and Pete coming in. Someone I drafted very early and have held on to thank goodness I have he's back where he belongs he's a workup boy who intervishops he belongs in the cab so we happy to have him there. I hope his his stark and shine now because it was a little bit of an anticlimax coming off that under 20 World Cup where he was you know play of the tournament broke Antoine Deponce records there for a number of meters gained in tournament scored something like six tries or something ridiculous and then played third third fiddle behind Moné for a burger Neko Stan I mean that's no slight on those team in but yeah I looks to get some.

26:07Sometimes a decent attempt of on with for the storm is do you think they're yielding up to the right and. I hope so and I think a lot of it's just going to come down to more consistent game time I'm not sure what in my cons injury situations looking like and. I was good with Rhinoc like kind of obviously you're going to be playing here and there as and you know he's also yeah 400 years old like. Pull the back on do do like on like it kind of is setting up to be P to get a fair chunk of the game time and I think like that's really what you want is a 21 year old is just just get consistent game time so really hope that that does kind of. Lead is his you know acceleration development and. Good job and he's certainly got the talent and the profile to be a will again change others you need to that kind of exposure and that that regular to get this so we can we can only hope. Yeah so we'll see how the likes of a Pied and Joaquin Armid and Marcus Miller and a couple of these are the young bands who you're going through often roaches going to come back.

27:15Roaches do I mean that's a pretty crazy back down to think about it we've got like Pied Sashar Roach and. Not a smaller Colby yeah Colby the. Sonata. The Lamser's an offler and then it's a pretty good. Got for bent the worry calendar the back to knock it on. I mean you probably some scope of the game. Yeah and probably the biggest loss for the stormers was Salem and Hartsonberg who gave us nice variety at 13 and 14. You went to the shark so we'll see where he's played there I think the sharks have enough depth probably in the centers they're talking about playing with. It's not a pretty stacked at that's 12 and 13 they're all back like that if you think about that time. The options is not so you would Jack or Williams able to move a Solomon Hartsonberg non who is a hooker is the housing Julius.

28:18But the best. What's the respect on the Makasoleum? Is he still there is a going back to Japan. No, he's there. It's a it's a it's a man is an insane amount of talent that they're that they're holding in the back. And between non even JP Pearson I mean you couldn't ask for better mentors so. Yeah we'll see what comes of that. Yeah I mean it you really really hope that like. It can come into something proper. Talking to that should we move on to the balls quickly and then deal with the box office. Yeah finally win something. That is the big question. Yeah it comes so close. Yeah I mean it's got four four finals in a row now like. Well four four out of five finals like yeah shooting it. I've got to do something I mean like and they look very they exceed my expectations last year.

29:18And like I still think I mean it between Pollard and Rudy they absolutely sat the bed in both the same final and final and like. There's somehow we're still actually not far off winning again. The spine playing a Bismidhi for a while chunk of it. They turned on for like 10 minutes and they suddenly were in the shower to park in a couple of you know 1550 calls not going away. Yeah I suppose like for on the form of that you want to kind of put them. Still in the mix you know they've got. Probably a better backup fly off now I don't know you know you have a person was hardly the most reliable. And for presents. Kevin Bosch is your pick can. I mean. It'll be interesting I'm really I am actually quite intrigued to see how he goes because like looking again he had the talent he wasn't really good radio player. I think he should have stayed 15 like yet another one of these players that should just stay at 15 instead of forcing himself into 10. But you know his kind of his physicality resources downside and you hope that like a season playing in a protodir with Gorty laws that's kind of something you learn.

30:24So we will see like I think if he's managed to sort that out then that's. Yeah he's going to be able to make hold of him and pretty good stage so. Yeah we will see where that that where how he kind of translated but it would be you know like one can only hope that he is playing. Well and that's good good for kind of everyone if that is the case so yeah that's that could be could be quite exciting and. Yeah I think the bulls have the have the squad to go very deep in this competition like you said they've been very consistent over the last few years getting to knockouts and then just not quite getting all the way there and sometimes that's their fault sometimes it's not. They're building up some really nice consistent depth in the front row again they've obviously got the problem of integrating the spring box back and they've got a lot of. And spring box I mean guys like young Roblox, young Hindu grisles, Aloklo, guys like that to integrate back after the Australia test but I do have the deck there and a couple of couple of new signings I mean they lost guys like young surf from pain.

31:39They're going to be getting Sebastian to collect back from injury they're getting tuckier Abrams as well in the outside backs. So yeah I think the bulls are poised to be in the top two South African teams and we'll just have to see how they go through the season but I think if I was a bulls fan I would be feeling pretty bullish and if I can put it that way. I mean did they and it did seven to ever actually pay for them did he get on the field? He did a few times but it was definitely a bit of a yeah he did he did. He played in the early season he played four or five games in our own at least and then he succumbed to some more injuries unfortunately so he's I think he's called the quits now. Well he got you know. Obviously they're biggest loss. Just disappointing. Biggest loss is their captain Nokia going to play in Japan so I'm not sure who will captain them.

32:39They've got Henry Levenberg back in the bulls fold and he's a he's a workhorse. It's presumably he's just going to be my muscle could see her there. Probably muscle could see her. So between muscle could see her. Henry Levenberg, our flow Mark and Staden and a couple others. Who is that phenomenal number eight that came from the Pumes again? Johnny Rudolph. So they got a solid pack. The bulls are always going to be physical that's the sort of DNA of the bulls so. Yeah I think they're looking solid if unspectacular. Yeah but that's you know that's often enough to be honest. Yeah I mean I'm solid. Solid is good. It's a it's a it's a squad game you know it's a long season so. We can't be rushing these kinds you can't be like. Yeah relying when just one or two players. I'm looking forward to seeing my my boy Cheshire will just let loose.

33:41I think he could be an absolute man is this year but he is playing potentially behind. It's a passion to clerk Sturvin and Jacob's stuck your Abrams so we'll see how much game time he gets. But he is an absolute weapon. And I'm interested to see if they continue with really at 15. Yeah that's the only question. And it's like Devon Williams is the only other option really. So yeah I mean the really simple is surely starting to say well like years old he is also slowing down. Even this last season like I mean he was not quite the valley that we even forward argues. What needs to be at the level is playing. Yeah now unfortunately I was also a big Willie Apologist and no one. No one's collected more no one's collected more underserved flag in their career.

34:41I think that's the only thing that's been linked and Valile Rue misunderstood by your genuine rugby. Pundits and commentators huge Lincoln Springbok rugby during the rise of Russia. But yeah there's a time for everyone before I mean like. Yeah before yeah. I mean there was a period where what he had the most tries list of any player and rugby like it was crazy. I can't skip over his achievements but. Yeah I do think it's just starting to end but. Do you think we have seen the loss of the springwatchers and maybe that's how we put it into the begins test. Yeah that's a good that's a good but I mean I don't see how he makes another springbok team. Do you. I mean I just I suppose the only thing in this way it was like no one else has really stood up. In the 15 jersey and that's a really good segue into the team for the 3D which is plus he's getting another chance for this year the two chances he has had.

35:41He's not fired. He was building building a fair amount of form last year. But seems to have to let that slip a fair bit so the regression is can he rediscover the form that he had last year for springboks because. It's three games in a row. Kind of starting to. Yeah just jeopardize your position that's quite a fair bit up. I mean one would would have to think. Yeah I would very much agree with you there. I think he needs a big game. He's had a couple of opportunities recently this season in particular and he hasn't taken those so. Yeah we will see this weekend these Q and Horn on the bench as well so if Fussy doesn't fire we have the lines man to come on who. Shouldn't embarrass himself at all he's been. Is he coming on as a fly off or coming on as a fullback well we'll have to see you're off so we got is it Sasha and Q and on the bench I think.

36:44Yes there are two fly off slash fullback options so it's going to be interesting to see what happens. I'm expecting to see. Pollock go to 12 I think that'll be part of the experiment that Raci wants us to play in this game we've seen it before. So that that is a possibility and then you can send unread to to blindside flank and then we've got Malcolm marks on the bench. You know from the last starting and the world over the press conference is that marks may go to openside flank. What do you think about that? Yeah I mean it's I mean I think if Bongo was still fit in firing like four years ago then I feel like there's a strong argument for this. And at the moment we're Marx's our only real proper hooker option and also like head and shoulders above anyone else like it doesn't seem.

37:44Like it's going to need to be a monumental shift in the hooker regime for the to be an argument where oh yeah we need to shoe home Marx into the team and it's going to be at six instead of just playing with hooker especially when we've got between. And we've got the Hanukkah and one of these like we've got great flank options like openside options. I don't see the need for it like again you can be I'm very sure you can do it. I just don't I don't see how that there's occasion would arise where we bring on DM for read hooker and playing marks six. I have no doubt in his ability it's just I just don't see that the point where like at any point we would have Mark you know Marx is. Him relative to the next best player at hooker is far bigger of a drop horse than him at flank so why would be playing a flank and then play like. A worse hooker than playing Marx at hooker and then playing like a bulls relius you know what I mean like.

38:46Yeah. That's where better than your hand draw blow. Exactly right the overall benefit like net effect on the team is doesn't make sense mathematically but I mean that being said. Mark Marx pretty much does play like flank anyway. I've got zero issue that zero doubt that he could do it there. And he was playing flank or loose for the school like. Yeah I think it's which hooker like in like 19 like but that's not the point the point is this. You know it's like it's the stays in thing it's like cool estesians a really good center but we have them in the lane there so we just like like we need to find another way to get him in the team and. Him off the bench being able to cover six or seven is better than. Someone they can't you know they can't cover center and six and seven so fine like shoe horn and then the side they make it work. And then the two morning marks in the toolkit just doesn't make any sense because we've got really good backup flags we don't have good backup hookers so it's like.

39:49It's a weird problem that I don't really understand what the console but whatever like you know I'm not against it like I'm always happy for. More of a certain things I've tried out it just seems like it's the one one that I'm like I don't know if I like every I you know we're seeing all of it is playing 12 like like yeah share enough that makes sense. Yes there isn't on the bench cool but this particular one I don't really understand but whatever you know I don't see it being problematic. In my my my first reflection on that is are we maybe disrespecting Australia here I mean last time we played them with something of a iconic game for them. Together together to go together was that boring fest and get off. Yeah but recently you know our results have been mixed let's put it that way against Australia then they're not terrible side they've beaten and drawn to Argentina also way in Argentina so.

40:54Number one are we just we struggle to beat you know with a out of form but stronger five than what we've named for this weekend. Yeah yeah yeah so that's my first question to you is should we be playing these tricks against Australia we in Australia as well and number two we were talking about Andrea stays and he's also captain for the weekend and we have 100 pollock there we have even it's a bit there are you surprised to see Andrea stays and has captain and how do you think he'll go those two questions. I mean I think it's it's it's interestingly because it seems like. Russia is definitely trying to cast that captain seen net quite wide over the past two seasons you know we had the Creole captaining for series of three or four games last year we've had Peter Smith being pretty. You know locked in this captain for like four games on the trust now we've seen it's best in the past the one play we've never really seen the captain is is followed which is interesting because he does seem to have the most natural.

41:56Leadership ability but there's one of the things we like he's with nothing as played as fly off it is maybe just not obvious enough as a consistent starter to get that rain. But you know the same probably applies to season that being said estes and certainly a leadership figure in every kind of TV's been and you know you're certain you're one of the senior experienced guys as hall of Quincy's captain the shark previously like I think he does come on more respect and probably people given credit for I think he probably is a bit more cerebral than people necessarily. And but yeah it isn't interesting one. Considering you've got you know guys like even in parlor that it just being there done that. And captain the book previously like you know within that squad so yeah it is interesting and but I yeah I think he certainly got the credentials to make a success of it. But to your point about the district in Australia like. I don't think it's ever a disrespect thing I think it's a cool we're going to push our players to perform under pressure.

43:01Yeah I think it's it's very much a situation of like we're willing to risk a loss by playing not necessarily our best side in order to give. For players that are not necessarily official players under the microscope and give them sufficient testing in a really pressured environment. So that when you know they are called upon in a semi final quarter final final they can deliver you know so it's yeah are we playing our best possible lineup though are we disrespecting them know I don't think so I think it's more of an inward thing like like we need to test our players. In a challenging environment and playing Australia away is a challenging environment and so it's more more inward focus than I would say it's just respecting life I think it's like. We are selecting it either we think can win but we're you know they need to push themselves to deliver at that level. Yeah I think that's spot on I think this is another one of those things where I see is communicated quite clearly about that we're putting new guys in the against Georgia and.

44:04Fiji and teams like that which are not just respected in them you don't know how guys are going to perform when they really are under pressure when you are you know there's seven points in the game 70 minutes on the clock kind of thing what are you guys going to pull out the hat are they going to crack or are they going to thrive. So he'll be looking for answers out of this and guys like you know probably like Mark who've been started and like her short Yankees who's playing nine he's starting a spring walk game for the first time in five years apparently it's been that long. A lot. You know Frank who must that who didn't play I think in the tests against New Zealand as far as I'm aware I don't think you played a game. I think you've even played in the July test. Yeah so he's also another guy who's got to answer questions we talked about Fassi earlier and we'll find him over you know.

45:05Are they going to put their hands up cannon moody at their team like we said we're testing our second tier of depth but her asses philosophy is not. Not that we need to respect our opponents but we need to as the spring walk squad think ahead to the World Cup and say well can these guys do it in these precious situations and can we count on them when that comes. So I think we'll get a lot of answers and depending on how guys go. We're a long way out from the World Cup still but what happens this weekend is certainly no dead rubber it's going to have influence on our World Cup selections I reckon. Yeah exactly like I think it's I don't think we ever want to throw games away like I appreciate that during the very biggest greatest rivalry that we did play as strong as team because I think those games needed to be one. This one if we lose it it's not the end of the world but I do want us to win it and I'm sure that's always the mindset going to every test but yeah so.

46:12I think it's interesting to like and I think it's good it's going to put people under pressure that need to be that at the same time you've got still guys that are experiencing that you've got Esther Hayes and you've got Polar you've got. Yeah then you've got on the bench you got a lot of experience coming on so yeah you called and I was a group you call that break glass and in case of emergency bench. Yeah and I think that's good you know that's like it's gives the starters the chance and they must run and they must thrive and if they don't then they must play they're going to give pull in 35 minutes because that happened before and that's going to you know kind of compromise there. You know chances and the team going forward but you know they've got opportunity to prove that they can actually be there from that one beyond the plane to Australia and next year so yeah I think it's it's it's a good mixture of experience. Youth and judge is testing the side so yeah I think it's it's it will play out it's it's it's it's a good set of selections for what we're trying to achieve out of this game in years I don't think it's disrespect I think it's we take this as a serious challenge and we want to put these players under pressure.

47:25Yeah I think we we learn a lot more from playing guys like Moody and Mark and Zahar and I hope that then we do by playing marks you know again and real etc. Yeah like I've said on previous podcasts I think if we were three no in the rugby greatest rivalry we would have seen team like us playing in Baltimore but with the series on the line I think Russ he said well it's going it's going to win this thing you know outright and we don't want to share this and. Have all the chat and psychological stuff going on around sharing the tournament especially at home tournament we feel a bit like a loss or at least the lost opportunity you know now we're seeing a side akin something to the Argentina game that we played away and it's a chance to to test a couple more guys which we'll see how it goes. It's going to be an interesting game 845 or 945 I think on Saturday 1145 South fernton last lunch time game.

48:28Okay alright 1145 that's not so bad but it's a very very very very good. We can we can crack a beer the kickoff that's good. Yeah exactly and what do you expect from Australia they've had a they've obviously got a new coach under the four games in no loss so far through wins and a draw and yeah do you think that this is going to kind of take that judgement team to the next level. Well obviously Australia is hoping so the results have been a little bit dicey at times I mean a draw to Argentina okay given it was a tough game and even we have struggled with it. We're in the team by said you know so yeah exactly. I said you didn't lost it last year like I mean I know that didn't do well against Scotland and England but like. Yeah and there is a medal.

49:28And there is to meet Australia Jopero right they struggled to beat Japan at first and then you know really blew the game away in the second and the second game of that little tour. Australia have we've always said like they don't have the depth but their first 15 is world class and can probably beat most teams on their day. So I think they're sneakily building more depth than you realize and like especially in that time five I guess. Yeah pretty solid forward back together they're not like spring book level you know what you know what I call monsters but like they're a really hard knows getting your face get the dirty work done. I'm tired you know like Angus Bell a little time. Brown fun playing a no most German Williams Josh can's been a revelation like in that loose trades being good world class for four years between right Wilson Valentini thrown a Charlie Kailin there into Sarno's been really finding some strong form like they've got a strong.

50:35Group of players in that for back in like the back line for me is always been has been an issue in the last look of the still don't really know that they're tennis. And they're still persisting with the like wishing that the series experiment like kind of lands and I'm just like at some point. Is that really the force you're betting it on you know I think the outside backs having Tom Brick Tom has a little form which is unfortunate for them. Because I don't think there's a great option for that but like they win so strong between peach and drawgonson you know they've got a good option so last time. The four pack weirdly is kind of the place where they can kind of build it they were I think they've got the players that they can build a four pack around. I yeah that job that that line. I think that teams to be the place where they are maybe a bit confused and they like that I think that. As much as really you know he's a consistent draft pick for you but he just doesn't. You can't keep hoping someone will deliver just because they're talented like. Yeah and maybe you know 13 was never the right position for them I mean I would certainly play on the wing more than 13 but it's just like at some point he's got a.

51:42Consistently in that position which he just hasn't done so far. You know they saw one was as a canary in a common account that played lots of games and he's been great because he's actually a rugby player and actually a 13. Yeah I mean I thought that the Hunter pipe saw me Lenick it's our combo probably had the better balance between the two of them. Again quite like world class but Lenick it's our I think is an underrated player. Lenick it's our very good now so they're not a team to be snuffed out or disrespected I think and I agree with you I don't think this team is. Out of disrespect to the wall of ease I think it's actually out of respect to the wall of be saying. Here's a difficult opponent in their home ground going prove yourself going prove you where the other spring box Jersey going prove you where the other world cup selection. And there's kisses a good coach I mean he also assistant coached with the spring box for. That means there's 20 test coach back in the day.

52:43Yeah coached Dressy so something other coach in the apprentice situation happening right now. Yeah I shouldn't have to be air and reminisce about those times. I was going to say in Perth but I think the spring box probably only heading to Perth but now sort of late this week because they've been. In Sydney which is an interesting point that I wanted to raise. Even in Sydney were they like halfway out the coast and the central coast just outside the city by a half out in their. They're based that they're going to use for the world cup next year which I think it's just another. Rassie your estimates you know just foresighted and. Yeah coaching genius of getting the guys acquainted with the surroundings so that when they arrived in next year. Yeah the core of that squad are going to be there. Well the whole squad I mean that's that's one of why like I was like why have you not just sent half the team home after multiple. Like why are you going straight to Australia for two weeks and it's like well outside it makes perfect sense. Yeah exactly.

53:43Imagine you had the opportunity to go and test out the exact conditions that the world cup would be like and you. Could have taken your world cup squad to do that and you decided to go home. Like they're strange. It would be different. You know where's where's Rassie's very deliberately going out of his way to make his players uncomfortable for another two weeks. Because he knows that it'll help them at the whole cup like you know I'm sure that half that squad. Like that's not one to be in Australia playing the sweet kid but. Or you know all having been based there for two weeks but like. You know that's that's probably one of the things that do that gives you success so. 100% applaud the decision. And you know I'm sure these guys will now get like close to a month before the November tests. So it's certainly should pay off. Probably the one guy who's in Australia right now that is a little bit moth that he's not playing. I think it's Dion for me because he's been forced to celebrate his 40th birthday overseas away from his family.

54:47And I's not going to be able to number one. Actually play a game and number two break the spring block record for the oldest spring block I think. Or has he really broke one on the three. That he's really broken the record but he's the would be the first spring block over 40 which he which he has been. But you know like nothing the biggest travesty is that you know you can't have a brandy for his birthday. Surely that's the. Yeah, brannis can't have a brandy that is. I hope brassy's going to make that up to him. At least he didn't have to shave his head. What was all that about. That's that's I'm very intrigued that hasn't come out. No one's explained what was what was the bet like russie tell us. Like who is the bet worth keeping us on 10 seconds. I mean came right after his 100th test in charge. I mean I can't be a coincidence. But also maybe for some shots the both the. The rivalry to it.

55:47Is there so many potential options it could be and we broke so many records throughout this tour. Yeah. Like what? What was it? And just won't tell us. Yeah, and I hope that that half of the coaching staff wasn't there when he started so it can't be like, oh, I bet I'll never make it to 100 tests. Like if I do I should. I mean, that's a weird thing to say in 2018. So yeah, I don't know the speculation is right. But sure it'll come out at some point, but it's it's good to either way. It's very cool that they manage to get the whole the whole squad. And even the foreign coaches, you know, like I really think it's again speaks to just the environment that's in that team. Where you can get a guy like a jiff lennery in an and the Edwards and a Tony Brown and then to just all share their head because of russie like whatever bet the grassie had made. That's what it was, but like, you know, you see the coaches were now in their little weekend away, succumbence away from the squad. They certainly seem to have a good time and enjoy each other's company, which is really, really a good thing to see in a team.

56:49Yeah, yeah, it is. And they're very like public about it, which is great as much as they haven't told us the reason for the bit like they're not they're not afraid to show this to the world which is like a. Yeah, they do you real like yeah, exactly they're not going to try and pretend to be anyone else. I don't think that I don't think Don human could ever act. I think he's just like the most genuine like, you know, hot on your sleeve kind of human being. Yeah, it's been great. It's been great to see. So I suppose in Antwee coming on for about an hour, your predictions for this game, what do you what do you think's going to happen? I mean, I hope a win. I think that that would be enough to be honest like I don't need to see much more than that. And obviously we, you know, the big squad would be nice, but I'm. There's been a lot of changes the teams have been in a environment for a long time, and I think that was these will be there to proper proper for rights.

57:50You know, if we can win the even like 28 25 or 20 or 20 or something, I'll be stoked to take that. I hope it's more comfortable on that. But yeah, I'm not definitely not riding off this Australian team. And not just because I'm a naughty, I'm not just a not because I am and all those here, probably just I just think. Yeah, you can't write them off. You won't beat the rumors and I'm only going to stoke them because the more they are more they're attached to you, the less they're attached to me. It is kind of ironic that the two of us are the ones taking over the last test predictions. I wish that I would think that that wasn't by planning from the others. Yeah, I tend to agree with you. So I'm going to say box by seven or eight or maybe ten, but I'm expecting a buck win, but like you also, I'm not. I'm not going to say that we're going to blow the Aussies away. I think they're a good enough team.

58:51They're going to test us seriously, but the squad should pull through, especially with the bench that we have in the last 25 minutes. We shouldn't have any excuses by the end of the game. Yeah, exactly. I think that that's a really important thing to note that like we do have a strong bench. And we can come from we should be able to rely on that, which is nice to see that they're kind of. And again, that speaks to me that tells me that we are taking this game seriously. Like, you know, we're putting some proper firepower on the bench, so we're not just going to like. Like if it's just hitting the fan, I wouldn't be surprised to see a 35 minutes in substitution. I think that's a good idea for us to get the lungs. So probably this mystery down that's in a row like. Or Zach Paul, the nor got an Android vessels getting shown up in the scrum. You know, they.

59:51The rest you won't be scared to pull them. Before we close the episode, just the the U.S. The opening fixtures for the ACS side. So Storm is away at corner. You're feeling for a game. That's so hard, so hard to say. I hope the storm is can get it done like I think starting your season with a strong tour. Just put you in such a good position. We know that the spring water looks like the teams always are kind of late season. Yeah, charges. So you know, you can start with the success in your tour. Then that just puts you in a much better place. Come to the pointy end. So yeah, I hope you the storm is can get that done. I will admit I don't know much about what kind of a ban on all season. And, but they certainly never push over. No, I'm playing away as often mean the storm's problem. They're imperious at home, but not great travelers. So I think they might they might struggle there against Connor, but we'll we'll see that they should win. Like some MacHans in the back for Connor.

1:00:51So not going to mean easy game. I think as much as people might think it might be. Lions have lester at home. Lester have said that's a good one for a long squad. But the Lions, you know, just almost beat the all blacks. So they are the second to steam in the world. That's what we saw on the up there rankings. So. Look, I mean, if there's a game to do it, like you've got to say that the Lions are coming with more form. They've had to play the curry cup. They've played the door blacks. Lens to haven't done either of those things. And. So yeah, hopefully that that's sufficient to kind of get them a little bit more. So I'm going to say I'm hopeful that the Lions can get it done. I'm hopeful to as much as Lester have sent an Irish international squad down. They're not going to make the same mistake twice. Okay. Have they said the raccoon the badger? Who's the badger? The printer knob.

1:01:51I've been against this. He's there. But so is Joey Carberry. So it's going to be interesting to see how they manage that. So Joey. So it's going to be interesting to see how they manage that situation. Sharks of playing ospreys at home in Durban. I think the sharks should expect to win the game. You agree? I mean, but it's a well side at home. The sharks are famous. You that's like they they're kryptonite. Every foreign team in Durban except for the Welsh teams. So again, one would hope. I'm not going to get. Until I see the sharks play for the first game, I'm not going to get only excited about where they form. Stacking. Like cautious about the chances, but I'm optimistic that they can deliver. Yeah, ospreys have also recruited a bunch of foreign players. And then no longer really much to. They lost. They lost Morgan and Lake. They were both ospreys players. And then they lost. They lost Morgan and Lake. They were both ospreys players.

1:02:53Yeah, they were. Yeah, so. We'll see me in Liam Wright. I think it's a quality player. It is not. No, he's not Jack Morgan to be fair. And then the bulls are playing away, but they're at zebra. So, yeah, we should back. Should back. I think that's that's a that's a uncontroversial. Selection. I think that's what I thought that I would come to be say I'm the most confident in. There we go. Alright, so. Should be an interesting weekend to rugby looking forward to it. Thank you, Ant. I really enjoyed that and I hope our listeners did too. Cheers. That was very, very lucky. Good luck to the box. So much for half an hour. I'm going to be able to get a little bit more. I'm going to be able to get a little bit more. I'm going to be able to get a little bit more. I'm going to be able to get a little bit more. So much for half an hour.