Ep. 313 – Touching the Sun

0:00So we get into the Land Rover and we got to see Maharajee and I'm just approaching them about all by the arts away and he yells at me. Got a question? Well I take one look at him and I don't have any questions. I just want to fall out and touch his feet. You dig that? I mean the thought of touching his feet is too much, it's like touching the sun. And I just feel all warm and loving and who has questions. I mean what a drag that question. Welcome to Here and Now with Ramdoth. This is episode 313, Touching the Sun. So this is an early one, it's 1969 and it's at the Esselen Institute in California. And just two years earlier, Ramdoth had this powerful LSD journey and that method of psychedelics

1:09had gotten him someplace so real. But he wanted to know how to live it, how to integrate it, how to bring it into his life. So he did what you do when you don't know what to do. He hit the road, he went to India and this lecture is the story of that first trip. It's the sacred caves, the holy men and this growing sense that maybe he's not going to find the person that can teach him. And then just as the disappointment is setting in, he meets a young westerner and it is a decision that changes everything. It changes his life and you might even argue, changes the culture. This is the origin story. And if it resonates with you, then we invite you to join us in our upcoming Legacy Immersion. It's four weeks of sitting around a fire and hearing all of the old stories of how people's

2:13hearts and minds got blown and then what they did after. It starts September 28th. It's completely free. So come sit around the fire with us. Go to rambdas.org slash fire to learn more. Rambdas.org slash fire. And with that here is Rambdas here and now. This is Rambdas. And the show is called here and now with Rambdas. Well, by 1967, I appreciated the fact that I didn't know enough to stay high with this method. And I looked about me at all my colleagues and I realized that they did not know enough either.

3:18And I started to experience considerable despair. I mean, this is the second round now when I end up the chapter saying, we don't know. We don't know. We don't know enough. We've touched it, but we don't know. And I've had more LSD, but what was I going to do? I tried programming sessions. I take huge doses standing in the ocean in the middle of the night to deal with the forces of jungles and ocean. I take, I mean, I take out and standing in my head. I didn't care. Whatever I program this and I'd have tapes and slides. And you know, I go through a session to understand my sexual things with women. I was coming out of a long sexual hang-up period of all kinds of perversity. I'd have big slides of the Mona Lisa and Venus on the half shell and you know all of my women in my life. And I'd shine these slides on with thousands of micrograms of acid and I'd go into their pores and I would, oh wow.

4:29And there were horrible sessions and beautiful sessions and there were 10,000 horrible demons and 10,000 beautiful demons. And I was trying to embrace every one of them. And I felt I was getting very old and wise, but not old and wise enough, fast enough. And I saw that I was in some kind of an asymptotic curve that no matter how hard I got, I wasn't going to get there. At least I wasn't. I didn't know about anybody else, but something in me said this isn't going to be enough. Now, what do you do at that point? See, one of the things to do is go to the east. But the problem was that a lot of my friends had gone to the east and I had read a lot of the Eastern books. And it just, I read them, I talked from them, I lectured from them, I quoted from them. But it was like, well the fact of the matter is you got to understand there are no secrets at all.

5:32The only secrets are in the eyes of the perceiver. It's all available. I mean, I read the same books I'm reading now and I now realize I didn't understand a word of them. And I was lecturing from, I can imagine what's going to be like five years from now. And my friends came back from India and they still seem to be the same guys that went to India. And they said we met a lot of pundits, a lot of good men. But nothing really that didn't happen. So I didn't really expect that was going to do much for me. But I didn't have much else to do. And along came a very interesting guy who I have turned on a few years previously. He went to University of Chicago at about 14 and a half. And he got his international law degree around 21 and he was teaching at the UN around 24.

6:37And he was like, started his own company with his 27. And he sold it to Xerox and became an executive when he was 34. And then at 35 he took his five million dollars and retired to become a Buddhist. And he was now ready to go to the east. So he had a land rover shipped into Tehran from England. A land rover camper with all kinds of water and special cantoons and mattresses upstairs. And we set out on our western journey to the east to look for holy men. It's hard to find holy men in the inside of a land rover. But it was sure nice in there. There was sort of like a thick haze of a Hashish smoke out of which one saw the passing masses of India.

7:42And we had tapes of Vivaldi's guitar and flute concerted. Oh, we had Indian music too, of course. Those times when we would do our Indian thing. And we did all the things, you know, I mean like we got to Kashmir and we decided we stayed at like Dal and a boat. We went on a holy man pilgrimage to Armanath Cave, which is a very, very high cave, a cave from the last buga actually. And we went up with all the holy men go barefoot. It's up over the ice caps. It's way, way up. It's about a three day walk. And we went with six Saturn ponies and two chicks from Berkeley. And a bottle of brandy and a chef.

8:47And when we meet holy men, we get down off of our things and we have a pipe with them and exchange namaste. And we got to Armanath Cave and it was raining and I looked at it and it was like a big cave. It was interesting because there was an ice lingam in there, a fallace that is made of ice that as the moon changes its course each month, the lingam grows to a huge height and then it melts down again. That's pretty turn on me. But we got there and the lingam was very... And we went to have the darshan of the Dalai Lama, Darmsala. And it was very pleasant. But if my teacher later told me, he said a great thing. He said, a pickpocket meets a pickpocket meets the saint. He sees only his pockets.

9:58I wouldn't have known a holy man if I tripped over him. He came up with a sign saying, I am a holy man, I guess I would have listened. They all spoke some of the language anyway. And our interpreters didn't really believe they were holy men around anyway. Really. They did and they didn't. I mean for our purposes, they did and they didn't. It was a very funny place. Very funny place. Very fun. It was beautiful. I mean it was the very... As tours go, it was a beautiful tour. I mean it was Ruby. I took 1,300 slides. And I have many tapes of beautiful music. Here are some street singers playing. We stopped and I take out my tape recorder and that would blow all their minds. I bring it up and they play for me. I play it back for them tonight. I take pictures and I take pictures of my Polaroid Landfamer and give them a picture. It was a strictly Western, you know. I was doing my Western.

11:08The Burning Gots, because Alan Ginsburg said, don't miss the Burning Gots. Benaris. And I took LSD in Benaris and I really scared myself. Because I suddenly was looking into the eyes of all these people who are just waiting to die in a high state of ecstasy. And they're really here. And I realized I wasn't that much here. I still had my travellers checked. And I still had my image of myself as somebody on a trip. And I got uptight. There was little too much of them. So I went and hid in the hotel. And then I got out later. And when the after I got into another stage of this trip and I went and stood in the middle of the Burning Gots where they were burning the bodies. And it was much.

12:16So I'm not saying that nothing had happened during those first months of travel, but that was all in a way preparation. And I had this little bottle of LSD. You see, and every time I'd meet a quote, holy man, I'd give them LSD. And I'd say, we get talking through an interpreter often. I'd say, would you try this? And let me know what it's like. And they would give me reactions back that were very much like the ones I got in the West. One guy would say, gave me a headache. Another one would say, it's not as good as meditation. Another one would say, wow, man, where can I get some more? Finally, I arrived at Kathmandu Nepal. And I was getting into deep despair because there was really nothing much else to do. I had just done my Indian trip. We were now planning to go on to Japan, leave the land rover. And nothing had happened.

13:27And the despair was very, very, very deep. One thing I really wanted was a mala. This is a mala, holy beads. And one day I was sitting at a hippie restaurant and a Tibetan llama came in and he said he was selling his mala, which was very far out. Because the Tibetans are so hard up financially. They need money so badly that he even had to sell his mala form for the team. And I asked him what he wanted for it and he said he wanted whatever I wanted to give. So I said I wanted to give 30 rupees. Which was about $4.5. And he said that was too much. He only wanted 15 rupees. But I said he said I could give whatever I wanted. And I insisted on giving 30 rupees. So that's that Jewish trade in the Ok. If you buy it, really it's like, okay. Because I knew you're really on supposed to buy mala. It's supposed to be bestowed upon you.

14:37And then I had this mala. And I really dug it. See, I mean I was really a holy man. I had this mala. Much later when I was on another part of the journey, I'll tell you about in the moment, I was sitting in a tea stand at Sarnath. And now I was really using the mala. See, and the mala was a beautiful mala and it had a dorgie and a guntah bell and a thunder lightning bolt on it. And it was a beautiful, beautiful mala. And an old Tibetan llama came into the tea stand and we said, come sit down and he sat down. He looked at me and he says, mala. He said, Tibeti mala. Yeah. Let me see. He gave it to me. He says, llama mala. Yeah. I was very pleased. I mean, I meant I had really gotten the real thing. I mean, I hadn't gotten just a phony. He wasn't a phony llama selling. He didn't have thousands of them outside.

15:45He says, he looks at me. He says, you know, llama. I said no. I llama. I keep. So I got a pipe and I held up my hand and he put it back in my hand and I looked at my grandmother who has been in India for many years for some guidance and he was looking away. And I sweated this one out and I thought, how can I keep it? I mean, what a possession and so on. But I really want it. Well, he must be teaching me something. He was sent to teach me something. And I gave it to him and he thanked me and got up and I hated him off the island.

16:47My friend turned to me and said, you didn't have to do that. He hustled everybody. Now we're back in Nepal and I'm sitting with my friend in the blue Tibetan restaurant, which is a hippie hangout sitting with some French hippies. And then walks this guy and he's about six foot seven. He's got blonde, long blonde here and a long blonde beard. He's barefoot and he's wearing white cloth. And the only thing that's noticed the bottom is that he's very tall six foot seven and he's a westerner and he comes over and he sits down at our table. And within about two minutes, we sense this guy is very, very special. The quality I can describe in him is he knows everybody else you meet. You look into their eyes like, do you know?

17:53Well, I practically know. Do you know? And everybody's always got that little questioning thing, you know? But he didn't, there wasn't any of that. He was like a rock boy. He was he was he meeting something, but he knew. And boy, that was the closest I'd ever gotten to something that knew. And so we took him back and snuck him up to our hotel suite, which was hard because it was the king's hotel and very fancy. They didn't even let the dorm and go barefoot so they weren't going to let the guests go barefoot. We got him up and we had a five day seminar in the room on hot backs and peach melba and hushy and masculine and Alexander David Neil and Arthur Avedon and so on. The end of five days, I was aware that this guy knew.

18:55Now what was I going to do about this because my friend was going on a Japan and I was playing to go with him and that was my first class ticket. And this guy had no bread and he was going back into India on a holy man pilgrimage. And he had been teaching me some mantra. And then one night I was lying in my room and I had a vision of my mother's face. I'd never had a vision before when I wasn't under some chemical and I wasn't at that moment, that particular day I wasn't. And she had an interesting expression. She had died the previous January. She had an interesting expression on her face. It was an expression she used to get when that in her, which was the middle class woman from Boston was disapproving. But there was an element in her, which was saying go baby, go. And it was like a peaked pleased look.

20:01Well, I thought that must be a sign of something. And then everything felt like I think I'll stay with this guy. So I left with him and pretty soon I found myself walking barefoot on a temple pilgrimage. And you'd walk along the street and people I was now barefoot with white cloth and I was like in my head I was an explorer. But people would run out of their stores and touch my feet and say, hey, Bob, a G, a Bob a G. And they'd just come in and have some food and free and I felt like a complete phony phony holy man. And when they touch my feet, I wanted to touch their feet. And my friend said, you don't when you're in the holy man role, you don't touch their feet. You honor them as if you were touching their feet in your heart and you're exchanging blessing. And he started to teach me in this most interesting way. I'd say to him, say, did I have a tell you about the time? Tim and I were flying up, let's say, don't think about the past. Just be here now.

21:14Say, how long do you think we're going to be on this trip? Don't think about the future. Just be here now. If you can truly be here now, when the future is now, you will have optimum awareness and optimum energy and you will do the appropriate thing. Gee, my body really feels crummy. Emotions are like waves. Watch them disappear into the distance on the vast calm ocean. So he had literally taken away everything I talk about. My thing, nothing to do would be quiet. So we were quiet and we sang a holy song. He wasn't at least interested in my life. My fascinating life, he wasn't interested.

22:17And at the same time as he was completely putting me down, saying, baby, your life doesn't interest me. He was being present so immediately and intensely that I had never felt anybody's presence so much. And I would do this take, like, what's going on here? You're following, you come to India to find a holy man, you're following a 23 year old guy from LeBuna Beach. Pretty far out. But on we went. And there were some thousands of fascinating little moments along the way. We stayed in Buddhist, Chinese Buddhist temples and everywhere we'd go, they'd welcome him as if he was one of theirs. It was a very far out scene if you'd go to see the teravodin Buddhists. They'd immediately be talking their chance and their prayers and they'd all treat him like he was an initiate. And then you'd go see a shave-eyed sect and they'd all be welcoming him as if he was an initiate.

23:20And you'd go to the Veshenovites and they'd be welcoming him in the different Tibetan sects, Buddhist sects. And everybody treated him like he was one of theirs. Finally, after about a few months, I had a visa problem and I had to go and get my visa extended and I did that. And then he had his annual visa to be worked out. And we went to a village on the plains where his papers were. And we were staying with some people who again welcomed him, some very wealthy people who welcomed him and put us in the holy manhouse on their property. And he would say to me, sit here and I'd sit here, he'd say, eat this and I'd eat it and he'd say, sleep here and I'd sleep there. Because he knew and I didn't. I would like a child, a baby. My bones ate and I had terrible dysentery because I no longer had bottled water and all that kind of stuff. And he'd say, that's good, you'll develop the bacteria just, you know, fast for a few days. No pity but much compassion.

24:25And he went off to see about his papers. And during the night I had to go to the bathroom and I went outside under the stars and while I was out under the stars, I started to think about my mother again. Not that she had died, she had died in the previous January of spleen at the Pita Bend Brigham Hospital in Boston. I hadn't thought about her death but when I was this close to the universe, I just felt presence. I had never missed her because I had been with her through her death and it had been a very conscious dying. Very conscious stuff. And I never felt lost at all because I dug that what mother and I had going didn't die that way. And then I went back to bed and I said nothing about this, that was my trip. You know, he wasn't interested in my life anyway. The next day he said, we must go to the mountains to see my guru and he had never even mentioned having a guru. And I assumed if he did have one, it would be a Buddhist and he didn't call them gurus usually.

25:28And I didn't know what was going on. And he said we have to take the land rover. And I said well, we're never going to get that because the fellow who has been left with really likes it and he's not going to want to give it to us. And he says don't worry, it'll all be all right. And we went to see the fellow who was a half an hour, within a half an hour the guy says look, you've got to go to the mountains and take the land rover. The fellow is a very high being actually, very high being also. We started for the mountains and I was in one of the worst moods I'd ever been in in India. I was just coming down after about three and a half months of Hashi's. Furthermore, I didn't want to be in the land rover which was now like a horrible tank to me. Because I had already now been walking barefoot through all of the Kaodong and Pondjuice and dirt between my toes and sleeping on the ground and I was really living in India and I was really turned on by it and suddenly I'm back in this thing.

26:31And I'm thinking what am I doing here? This kid just wants, he won't even let me drive. And I dig that the car is somewhat my responsibility and the guy that left it that owned it didn't even leave it for me to use anyway. So I felt terrible and I was really bugged with this guy and thought he I'm just going to go on this trip whatever it is and then I'm going back to America. Man, I started having fantasies of dancing at the film war and how groovy it was going to be to get back. And I don't want to see a guru and gurus or hypes and what the hell is that? And we go up into the Himalayan and we come to a little temple by the side of the road. We stop and I think we're just sort of stopping so that some trucks can go by and people surround the car which they always do in India. And India is like instant crowd, the minute you stop there's like 200 people. And they're all staying about three inches from you with big eyes looking directly at you. And it's not paranoia on anybody's parties that yours because they have nothing going.

27:35They're not coming on. They're just interested. But when you're trying to urinate or cook food or something, you know, it's just that you're you've got this $7,000 vehicle which is like probably the most expensive vehicle in India. And it's got a peppermint stripe root. I can tell something's going to happen because this guy is crying all the way up into the hills. Tears are streaming down his face and he's singing holy songs the top of his lungs and I'm I'm over in the corner being bugged. I'm sulking. I'm sulking. And he gets there and he says where he's asked him where the guru is and they say, Maharaj, he's up on the hill and he goes running off of the hill and I'm left there and everybody's like looking at me and I don't know what to do. And he's kind of ignoring me. So I go running after him and every you know, my ego is just being pushed around terribly.

28:41I don't want to be here and nobody's giving me any choice that I'm stumbling up this hill behind this giant who's like running in big leaps, crying. And I don't want to see a guru anyway. We climb a hill and we come around the top of the hill to a beautiful feel overlooking a valley that's out of sight of the road. And in the middle of the field is this little old man sitting with a blanket around him and about eight or nine Indians are sitting around him. And it's just a beautiful cablo who is on to hung up to appreciate it, but I see it and the clouds are in the background and it's very beautiful. And I hear this guy runs up and he does done the pornography goes out full face hands touching this man with a little man's toad. And he's crying and the man's padding this had and I don't know what to do. You know what this is all idiocy and I'm standing by the corner saying well I'll come here but I'm not going to touch his feet. I mean I don't know what to solve about. I'm you know totally paranoid totally burned.

29:47And the man's padding this guy's head. And then he looks up at me and then he pulls the guys here back and he says to him if you've got a picture of me they said this in Hindi and it's sort of partly being translated and partly I'm picking it up. You said if you got a picture of me and through his tears this guy says yeah he says give it to him. Gee that's really nice this little man's going to give me a picture of himself. Pretty cool. That's the first ego thing I got in the whole day you know I really needed it. And then he says to me looks at me and he says you came in a big car. Now one topic you know that like I don't want to talk about it. And he's smiling so I said yeah he says you'll give it to me.

30:59So I started to say well it's not my car. And this idiot lying out full face is saying Maharajee if you wanted it's yours and I'm yelling you can't give him David's part that is not our card to give away. And he looks at me he says you made much money in America. So I figured he thinks all Americans are rich. I said yeah I made a lot of money in America one time. How much did you make? I said well one year I made $25,000 so they all calculated that in rupees and that was the size of a amount of money. So he says you will buy a car like that for me. My thought at that moment was I have never been hustled so fast in my life.

32:02I mean I grew up around the Jewish charities and we were good at it but never this good. I mean I haven't even met this guy and already he's asking for $7,000 a car. So I said well maybe. And all the time he's smiling with me. And my head's going around in circles. And then he says take them away. Jow, jow, jow, jow. You know take them off and feed them. Prasad food and we're taken off and treated royally and given beautiful food in a place to rest and we're togethering still. We're way up in the mountains. There's no telephones, no lights, no nothing. This is really way up in the mountains. After a while we're brought back to later with Maharaj. He says to me come sit here. Sit down. He looks at me and he says you were out under the stars last night.

33:04Yeah. He said. You were thinking about your mother. Hmm. She died last year? Yeah. She got very big in the stomach before she died. That's right. Spline, she died of spleen. Well when he said spleen it was like he looked at me and he looked directly at me and two things happened simultaneously. One thing was that my rational mind like a computer out of control went through its storage units desperately trying to figure out how he could have done that.

34:08I mean I went through every super CIA paranoia. You know you could have like they brought me here and this is part of the mind spruely. But no matter how grandiose it got it just couldn't handle this one. I mean I just couldn't handle it. It just wasn't within the book of even my paranoia and they were pretty grandiose. I see up until and I've been in this position that when something like this had happened either I had heard about it second hand in which case I said as any good hard to scientist would say. Well this is very interesting. We certainly must keep an open mind about these things. J.B. Ryan is doing some interesting research in this field. Or else I was high on LSD in which I'd say well how do I know that I as the observer I'm just creating the whole thing out of whole cloth anyway.

35:09Because at one point when I was taking psychedelics I had taken a chemical called J.B. 318. And I was sitting in the third floor at Millbrook and I thought nothing's happening what a weird drug. And that was the guy that took it with me was doing cartwheels through the room. He was passing through the room in the bathroom and back through. He was about a 45-50 year old man. He was doing cartwheels. But it seemed nothing was happening to me. And this girl came in from the community and she said that I want to drink and I said that would be groovy. And she poured a glass of lemonade and it got to the top and she kept pouring. And it went over the side and down the floor and across the floor and up and across the ceiling. And down and under and got my pants wet and came back up and I went into the glass and then the glass disappeared and the girl disappeared and the wet disappeared. I turned around a metzer who was standing next to me and I said, Ralph the most remarkable thing happened and Ralph disappeared. And since I knew that such things could happen, you see I took all the things that happened to me with psychedelics and put them into that special category of, you know, the observer is under a chemical influence.

36:34But I was under a chemical influence and this guy just said, spleen and how did he know that? The mind went faster and faster and finally just like a computer when it's met an insoluble problem, the bell rings and the red light goes on the machine stops. And my rational mind just gave up and at that same moment there was this violent wrenching really very, very painful pull in my chest and I started to cry. My fourth chakra was being opened and I cried and I cried and I cried and I cried and I wasn't sad and I wasn't happy. The closest I can say is I was crying because like I'm home. I've carried my big pile of up the hill and what's all done. All the paranoia washed out of me and all of the everything but just just a feeling of fantastic love and peace and wow.

37:49And I cried and cried and cried and they took me to a temple about 12 miles away and there I sat and I was kind of confused. And during the evening I was wondering what had happened to me. I didn't understand what was going on and I was going through my shoulder bag and I came across this little bottle of LSD and I thought wow. I always wondered what LSD was. This guy knows everything he'll know. I'll ask him. I must remember to ask him. Next morning 830 messenger Maharaji wants to see you. So Maharaji is great king. It's a title for realized beings. So we get into the Land Rover and we go to see Maharaji and I'm just approaching him about all five yards away and he yells at me. Got a question. Well I take one look at him and I don't have any questions. I just want to fall out and touch his feet.

38:55You dig that? I mean the thought of touching his feet is too much. It's like touching the sun and I just feel all warm and loving and who has questions. I mean what a drag that question. I don't have any questions. No, he says, what's the medicine? Medicine? My friend says maybe he means the LSD. I said LSD. I'll show bring the LSD. So I go and I get the bottle of LSD and he's looking. So I pour it out in my hand. He says, what's that? Well that's the STP. What's that? Well that's two and all. That's the LSD. And I'm telling about all these things. Little you know you're traveling. And he says. Give you CDs. I have never heard the word before and I said, CDs and somebody said, powers. And I got to take Western head that I am that he is like a little old man of seven.

40:03The any that for like vitamin B 12, you know, I mean he's losing his physical strength and he wants something to sup him up. And I'm really disappointed man. I give that guy anything but what I he wants. I don't have. I don't have any vitamin B 12. Gee I'm sorry. I pour it back into the thing. No, no, no. He holds out his hand. So I put on one. What we lovingly call white light me. Now this was a this particular batch of white light me had because of the way the wash water was I was assured was 305 micrograms each one of the pills instead of 275. It was very good. You looked at it. Come on. So I put a second on his hand. 610. He's about 70 years old. You know that's fine. You start a 70 year old man at a small dose. 150 under suitable condition.

41:11I put a third in his hand. That's 915 micrograms. But you're. He swallows. I watch them get down. And the scientists in me things. Well, this is certainly going to be interesting. All they I'm around him and he keeps every now and then he twinkles a bit. But nothing happened. That was the answer that question. Few days later we were sitting there and he said to me. He said you went to Armandov Cave. And I got a real ego of flash like the man I've been on a holy pilgrimage and he's recognizing it. Wow, isn't that great. See, and I went through my whole like pride. And he looked at me and he says, but you didn't understand it. I said no. You will.

42:26Just a few more things about him later a few months later. I had to go to Delhi. And I went by bus to Delhi. And it was like about a 10 to 12 hour bus trip. And I got to Delhi and I was very high and I was barefoot and silent. I was my own all the time. I was there working with a chalkboard. And I went all around Conop Place doing my thing and American Express and VOAC and public health and all of stuff. And I had to get some money for it for some. Tonkas that were being reproduced. And around two in the afternoon. I wanted to have a meal. I had been living on a very, very sparse diet as I'll tell you about in a minute. So I went into this very fancy vegetarian restaurant and I decided to really live it up and I had their fanciest meal.

43:29And I really grew behind it. I mean the whole business of enjoy and joy, you know, like I was really into the food. And for dessert, I had ice cream and they brought on the ice cream. They brought two biscuits and boy those were the first cookies I'd had. And oh, did I say or though? Oh, and so good. Then I went to the a show commission, the Buddhist monastery, Tera Vod and Buddhist. And I stayed overnight. And the next day I took the bus back up to the mountains. And a few days later, Maharaji, who had been up in the hills further up, came back. We heard Maharaji's in town and everybody went flying in Maharaji like bees to honey. And I brought him oranges. You bring some to darshan, you bring some food. And I saw him. I took one look and I started to cry. And the oranges went flying in all directions. And he picked up the oranges, Wiley and was eating them right in front of me. And he ate eight oranges right in front of me.

44:31Because if, if, if, when he eats that way, he's taking on like karma from the first, he's doing the thing. In fact, all day long, he said that there are all these loving women come, bringing food they cooked all night. And he just sits there all day talking and every now and then he opens his mouth. And she put something in and she opened up. Like huge elephant or rhinoceros that just sit there and just keep feeding it. He must eat 15 meals a day just sitting there. And he's amazing. It just passes it all through. I guess. And he ate the eight oranges and the principal of the school was feeding me oranges and I was crying. It was quite a melodrum. And then he grabbed my hair. What we've left me pulled it up and he looked at me and he said, I'd like to like the biscuit. And then he proceeded to tell me moment by moment everything that happened to me in Delhi, just like he had been right behind me or in me or somewhere or other.

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