Elizabeth Holmes, A Birkin Bag & The Biggest Red Flag Ever + Michael Knowles

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1:00See terms. Megan McCain has entered the chat. Hello, welcome to citizen McCain. It's Wednesday, September 23rd. I have so many things to talk to you about. I'm so glad Miranda's back and feeling well. I'm so glad your dog is doing better. We have Michael Knowles coming on the show. He's the host of the daily wire works with my husband, old friend of the show. We love him. He's so funny. I think the thing I love about him is that he is. He has such a good sense of humor, which I always, always enjoy. I always love to see. He's a suit. He's so like mad men ask like he always so respectfully.

2:01It was worse to suit when he joins us. All of men at the daily wire dress nights. It's like night. It's not, you know, most guys are wearing sweatpants all the time. No, don't judge myself. Do that too as well. It finally feels like fall here. I made homemade tomato soup last night. So I'm just basically like Betty fucking crocker now, but I really wanted the vibes. It's an Inaigarten tomato basil soup and it was basically incredible. So I'm just telling you guys, Google that. So get it. It was amazing. And it's chilly and cold and rainy and Ashley and I are dressed appropriately before we came on Miranda. All three of us and some of our wonderful people who are over zoom that make the show happen. We were laughing. Our face is off because Nathan field or the communion has released his Elizabeth Holmes documentary that's coming out in full. Now for people that don't know what this is, Nathan fielder is a, he's sort of like a he's a comedian, but he's kind of like a like a Peter Sellers kind of comedian.

3:02Like he's like a, go ahead. I can't hear you sweetheart. Now she's having like a, can you hear me? I can't I hear Miranda. I'll keep talking. So he's kind of like a Peter Sellers like a comedian who's, you know, like uses life and like life events to create comedy and he's sort of like a, I don't even know the right way to grab. More than an actor, more than a comedian, he is like, I don't know, he works in the world. I don't know the right name for that. He's like improv kind of. He's very, very, very funny. Anyway, Elizabeth, he's somehow gotten himself, he somehow got permission from Elizabeth Holmes. That's the Theranos One Drop Blood lady who scammed, you know, tens of millions of people claiming that she had a machine that could take one drop of blood and give you all the information you would get from a viral blood. Anyway, that he has finally released his trailer for his show. I'm sorry for his movie and I would like to play a few bits of you for it right now, bits

4:03of it for you right now. You really feel you did nothing wrong? I did not. So where did things get lost? Like how are you where you are right now? I wish I knew. I don't know. I don't, I don't feel like I understand that. So I know you guys invited me to stay here. Does any part of you worry about me being here? 24-7? I don't think so. But what if I see something that makes you look bad? Okay, it's a long trailer. I implore you to go look at it on social media. Yeah, it's like three minutes or something and it basically at the very end, she said she's never been able to cry before and then she makes herself like start tearing up and crying.

5:03She's a complete and total sociopath, crazy person. And I'm sorry, I could drive you. Yes. A jury of your peers easily and handily sent you to jail for over a decade. You may want to, you did something wrong, lady. You did something wrong. Anything you want to say about the trailer before, I actually share a personal story that I don't think I've shared like in, it's in totality before, which I, you shared drips and dribs of it. So I'm excited to finally hear you tell the full story. I've heard it privately. So I'm excited to hear the public version of the story because I'm sure there's going to be a, not all of it told, but I'm thrilled for the story. I'm a huge Nathan Fielder fan. Like I love Nathan Fielder. How would you describe his comedy? I would describe his comedy as a very human ask. Like he's very trying to understand the human condition. So he has this new series out and it's called the rehearsal on HBO Max. And in it, he, he does all these things where he's like scenarios of scenarios of scenarios

6:07and he's trying to very much understand like if I were to become a father, that's the first season is the theme of if I were to become a father, like, how would that go for me with these, all these different kinds of partners? And I think ultimately he decides maybe it's not for him. Because that was the vibe for him during COVID was locked down and maybe loneliness and people exploring these avenues of themselves that they never had before. So I don't want to get to into the weeds with Nathan Fielder, but it's very emotional. And you can see this man going through this arc and maybe like if I had taken these different steps of life, what would my trajectory have been? And it's very fascinating to walk through that with him. And then in the second season is he goes through this whole pilot training program to become a pilot. And it's like the emotional stability of pilots and he's trying to figure out how to get pilots to know each other better and to they feel comfortable with, I don't, I'm worried about the plane. Can you take over and like the macho-ness of the cabin and the cockpit, it's very fascinating to watch and he ultimately ends up getting his pilot's license through the whole thing.

7:10And that's the story of that season is incredible too. And he ended up winning awards for it. And he performed the miracle over the Mojave. It was very interesting. He like modeled himself as our solacell and burger and did rehearsals with it and did the whole thing with it. So I recommend the rehearsal. It's a great show. So anyway, with the solacell is the whole thing that this comes out of left field. Nobody knew he was doing this or he had done this. And this has been years, years, years in the works. So that's a testament to him and his editing and his crew that they were able to keep this a secret. And I don't know if he's trying to embed himself and her family how many months he shot with them. It looks like they're pretty intimate. And it says even in some reviews that you and I were going through that there's scenes of graphic nudity. What? What could that possibly mean? Yeah, we were like, who's nude and why is it graphic? It means to me. I don't know enough about this. That sounds like that would mean like maybe full frontal nudity or some kind of activity

8:12of some kind. So I have put some feelers out to people that I know that are close to me in the industry that maybe have worked on this. And I'm sure they're NDA at the bottom. So I'm going to try to see if I can get some information. But the other thing we know about this movie is that halfway through she stops filming with him and she doesn't want to anymore. And then they reenact scenes with her with an actress. Now the rumored actress is Amanda Safreed who betrayed her in the movie about her life. That's the rumor. I think it would be pretty genius on Amanda Safreed's part if she did it. That's also very native filter. That's what he does on the rehearsal. It's like you see him with the actual people do the rehearsal him with the actress that he hired to be his wife. And they got this kid to play their child. And then he hires actors to reenact the rehearsal. So he hires someone to play him as an actor and an actress to play the actress in another actor play the kid. I just layers upon layers of weirdness. Why would she be like, I wouldn't let Nathan Field her film anything with me because he's a genius.

9:12And his intentions are not to make you look good. He's an entertainer. He needs content. He's going to get to the root of it. He's clearly fascinated by her in this, what we even the clips we've seen. So she's even dumber than I initially thought. Two really quick things. So I have an Elizabeth Holmes story. I do. And it's a good one. Okay. And I'm going to tell it to you. I'm not just teasing. I promise we're going to get to it. Why is Elizabeth Holmes interesting and important for the zeitgeist? Why is she such a source of fascination? Well, first and foremost, if we can go back 10 years to the height of the girl boss, women have to lean in, you know, all that bullshit that we were shoved down our throat that that was obviously very problematic left out poor women, women of color, LGBT community. Like there's a whole lot of mothers. We could do a four hour show on why the girl boss movement was problematic and ultimately a failure. That doesn't mean I don't want women in place as a power. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate female CEOs, whatever, but she really took that cultural moment. And a certain point in time, Elizabeth Holmes was the richest self-made woman on the

10:14planet. I think she was worth a few B billion dollars. I don't remember for sure. And she was put on every single magazine 60 minutes, every TV show ever getting all these awards. Sorry, getting all these in her little thing with the pill or she's like, one drop saying I haven't invented this machine that no one's ever seen and that I can take one drop of your blood instead of a vile. And her whole story was like her aunt was scared of needles. And this is how it inspired her. And she conned over brilliant men. Henry Kissinger was on her board. Shultz, the billionaire and his grandson is ultimately the one that was like the big whistle blower. She had men eating in the palm of her fucking hand. And do you know how I know that? Because I saw it with my own eyes. So we need to go back to I think it's 2014. It was after Mitt Romney had lost. I was still living in Los Angeles. And if you excuse me, my memory points are always between election cycles who won and who lost. McCain Institute, which is a think tank that my dad started in his name when he was still

11:15alive and still exists every year has a event called the Sedona forum where people come together and it's been all different. Famous people world leaders, senators, cultural icons. The year that Elizabeth Holmes was there that year was the same year, Demi Moore was there. Demi Moore, by the way, total delight, total class act, honest, wonderful. We love and protect Demi Moore with all our energy. Can't say enough nice things about Demi Moore. Shook hands with every single soldier there, by the way, like class, class act. So Elizabeth Holmes was there. And I was always like brought to those things when my dad was alive. As I was always brought around him to sort of be like entertainment for my dad. I always say I was like morale. Like there just to like be, you know, representative. My last name is McCain, whatever. And those events can be very fun because there's so many interesting people. And I would like to say there was a man there that I don't even know if I'm allowed to say like Carlos Slim was there who was one of the richest men on planet earth who had less bodyguards than Elizabeth Holmes stick.

12:15Okay. Elizabeth Holmes came with more bodyguards than I've ever seen short of a president. She had she was I mean, rolling deep with military level security. And I at first was just like, and you need to keep in mind like I don't pay attention to tech. I don't pay attention to economic news. It's not my lane. I'm bored by it. I didn't really know who she was. So when she first came in, I was like, why does she have so many bodyguards and she's dressed in private event function full of military people and donors and my dad. Yeah. Yeah. It's a better than president by the way, there's security there for all obvious reasons. And again, maybe at the time she felt like I need all this, whatever. But that was the first tip off that she had more security than anybody else that was there. And then when she came in, she was wearing to like the whole thing like her turtle neck to dress like Steve Jobs with the very deep voice with the most fried, awful hair I've ever seen. And look, as a woman, if you're presenting yourself in a way, the first thing I thought was like, she has billions of bodyguards, but like she can't, we can't have a carousel statement on our hair.

13:16Just the first her hair was like fried out. Sorry. She's gonna go jail. She's gonna have things about people so I can say shitty things. So she had, I mean, I have never seen, I still have never seen anything like it. Actually, there's one more person I've seen like it, which I, I don't want to say yet, but I'll tell you maybe I know who you're talking about. You know what I'm talking about. There's one of them who have a similar amount of bodyguards. You guys do the math in the research. There's one other woman I've seen that can like charm older men. And I want to tell you, I don't have this. I cannot charm older men. You guys, we have a 90% female audience on the show. I don't have this. And I'm not interested in us. Not at all. Older men, rich men, like it is just I, they don't care what I have to say. I'm not there. It's incredible. I was ever able to get married because like I really do much better with homosexual men. And I just like women are my vibe, my wheelhouse. Like I just do well with women as like people who care about what I've say. So everybody was just like she like just falling all over to talk to her whatever. And I was just like, okay, whatever. And then I had explained to me, Theranos, someone was like, she has this machine.

14:16With a drop of blood and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, well, that's incredible. Who has like, where can I use this? And they're like, oh, it's not like available yet. And that was the first thing that I was like, but has I literally thought in my head. And I'm not just giving myself credit, but it's interesting that like in the history of Theranos, like it is the, it is the kids and grandkids of like the people. It was like the younger generation that caught it on. I'm not saying I was like a whistleblower. There were just things about her that I was like, I don't understand. Because I'm a very awkums razor simplistic person when it comes to politics, news, stories, light when people is presenting the information, I just like to consume it in the simplest way possible. And at first, I was like, so I can't use this machine yet. And I remember thinking, but what if it's like magic beans? Like what if it's like Jack in a beanstalk? So that was my first thing. And I was like, okay, she has this machine that's allegedly coming up and nobody has seen it. I just thought I just remember thinking like, okay. So she is at this event again. Everybody's obsessed with her, whatever. And she tells this story when she's standing up, like again, talking to a group of people and I overheard it.

15:19I was like standing in the, by the way, I'm gonna tell you about this machine. I couldn't have given a shit about meeting me. And again, you don't have to give a shit about me, but like didn't want to shake my hand. I want to say, I had me, didn't get, could Elizabeth Holmes, she was like, your dad. I wasn't she? It was like people were like getting up. She was like, I can't honestly remember all of it because I was really obsessed with Demi more who I was sitting next to. And her daughter was like, okay, whatever year her daughter was on Dancing with the Stars. That was the year because I was talking to Demi more. Oh, I'm sorry, Michael's here. So I got to wrap this up really quick. Anyway, Elizabeth Holmes, sit at the table and or she's, no, I'm sorry, she was standing. And she starts telling people like, I am dedicated to my science. I have, I have no time for fashion. I have no time for socializing in my house. I just have a bedroom and a exercise machine. And juice and I just every single second of my life, my total focus is dedicated to nothing but science and the science of whatever. Okay, I want to emphasize that's why she couldn't care about fashion treatment.

16:22Yeah, but she doesn't care about fashion. That's why she wears turtlenecks every day. Okay, this is the important you guys. Okay. And I said to my mom, she's carrying a Birken bag. Now Birken bag is the most expensive purse you a person can buy. A bitch who doesn't care about fashion is not carrying a Birken bag. Not in 20. But I'm telling you, I thought something's full of shit here. And I told my mom and I told my dad afterward. And I'm going to ask my mom if I have permission to continue this story until what happened afterward. But you can tell everything you need to know about a woman by what handbag they carry. And I'm just telling you a woman who spouses to everyone in the room that there's so much better than me because they don't care about fashion. And I just care about there are no some blood and technology is not carrying a Birken bag. Pretty good to lose with the home story, right? Oh, it's the best. And also, I'll tell you, my handbag is made by Quince. Just like that's the cap on that story. Anyway, we have to move on, but I will definitely be watching that documentary.

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18:23Michael Jane Nolz on X and Michael. You have a new film out on the daily wire, which I have in my roster to watch this weekend called run height fight infidel. So am I saying that right? Or that's right. Great run height fight infidel. If you thought that John Millius is red dawn was just a little bit too subtle. You keep the commies, but add some jihadis in there. This is the movie for you. Daily wire just put it out. It's been the works for a long time. I was doing very well. So I want to thank everybody who signed up for it. But yes, you can go to dailywire.com slash subscribe. However unhinged you think it is. However, just totally shocking and skit so and hilarious. You think it is turn it up to 11. That's the movie. And so it's been meamed galore and I'm very glad it's doing well. My husband showed me the trailer a while ago and I was like, this looks good. Because no one is more scared of his long, the stick scream is on the me. It like keeps me up at night. I'm not exaggerating. It's like a giant fear in my life right now when I was like, this looks good. So I'm happy for you guys and I'm like, I said, we're supposed to watch it this weekend.

19:27So congratulations. I think you get a kick out of it. You know what's so crazy is the first time I watched it. I said, man, this guy's it's a little heavy handed. I mean, I think you could present this movie to like Charles Martel and he'd say, hey, cool it with the Islamophobia. But then what's crazy is between the portrayal of the left wing college kids and the Islamic fundamentalists, you realize hold on. We might not have gone far enough. I mean, you listen to the Abdul El-Sahed supporters speaking. You listen to a lot of the people on the left with this red green alliance. And you say, guys, we should have gone further. We only turned it to 11. We should have turned it to like 25. Well, no one's ever I'm never going to say don't go to 25 or go to 11. I'm always like more guests and more. I love more. So the clip that I saw that I thought that like really like I thought was funny is the, the people with like the green hair and whatever who are talking to the jihadist extremists. And they're like, he's like, you must have children and they're like, we're gay. And then they kill them. The extremists just because like, you know, that thing makes me crazier than queers for Palestine.

20:29So I just thought that clips seem very funny. subtle the subtlety of a jihadie kicking a homosexual off the roof. That is probably the most nuanced low voltage part of the whole movie. So there's, you know, there's a lot for audiences. You know, right before we got on and thank you so much again for coming on and slumming it with us. We always love having you. You're so charming and funny. We were just talking right before we came on this Elizabeth Holmes, Nathan Fielder, documentary came out or the trailer for it came out. I can't get enough of this story. I think it's because I met her and I spent time around her as I told the story. Why is it that we're also fascinated by this story? I can never consume enough information about Elizabeth Holmes and their nose. Because she is a sociopath. That is why people are really fascinated by that because most people are not sociopaths. I remember there was a book that came out about gosh, at this point, 15 years or more, 15 years ago. And I got it was called the psychopath test. It was a New York Times bestseller. It was the first book I ever got on my new Kindle when I was a teenager. And I'm reading it and I'm fascinated by the whole subject.

21:33But I had this worry. I said, well, I don't know. Could I be a psychopath? And there was this amazing line in the book where he says, at this point, you're probably worried that you're a psychopath. If you have that worry, you're not. And so I think for a lot of us, we live in this age that is shaped by the enlightenment, that's shaped by liberalism and egalitarianism, where we believe that all people are basically the same. And we're kind of a tabla raza when we're born. And the left says that we're just the products of our environment and social conditioning. The right kind of agrees with that. You know, we're a little less calm in our rhetoric. But that's basically the anthropology that we share. And the existence of sociopaths really challenges that. Because these are people who are just operating in the world with other human beings, with institutions, in radically different ways. And so it challenges a lot of our preconceptions. And they're freaky because these are the people who, you know, commit mass murders and who, you know, defraud, the poor retirees, like Bernie Madoff.

22:33These are people who are just interacting in ways that really make us rethink our conceptions of justice. And egalitarianism. Do you think we were, we're really getting into this. Why I'm also so interested in it because it was, when she was popular, it was like the height of the girl boss lean in, which again, we could do hours and hours to talk about why that was a load of garbage. And I think ultimately hurt women in a lot of different ways and left out poor women, mothers, like, there's just a whole list of reasons why Cheryl Sandberg is leaning in. I think is one of the most destructive books actually of the past 20 years easily. I really think it's like she's done a lot of damage to women for a lot of different reasons. I hate Cheryl Sandberg, but that's a whole other thing. Do you think that's part of it? It's like she was just, Elizabeth Holmes was like elevated so much simply because she was a woman. And that's also like a problem with DEI when unqualified people. I don't think a man who had this magic being invention that couldn't prove that it had any data that this actually existed or worked because I think that this is like an example of why DEI is so dangerous

23:34because a man would never be given the elevation that Elizabeth Holmes was. And so much of it was just like, we need a woman in tech. And so that's why why she got as much money and attention as she did. No, certainly not. And a man would not have. And even an ugly woman would not have. You know, the fact that Elizabeth Holmes is basically nice looking clearly. You hear all the reports of the Theranos scandal. And a lot of these men do appear to have been charmed by Elizabeth Holmes. And so there's that irony, which is on the one hand, you have the most girl bossy of girl bosses. On the other hand, she is leaning on her feminine virtues in order to defraud these investors. So there's that. But I think your point is totally right here, which is that was the peak of millennial feminism, girl boss go out there, the masculine virtues are the only ones that matter. And those of us who criticize feminism and this idea that women need to just pretend to be man and then you put off a lot of the things that they want, like getting married, having kids just to go work in a widget factory or whatever.

24:36We critics of that stage of feminism said, this is a fraud, ladies, they're selling you a bill of goods. Don't buy it. This is a fraud. And so what's so delicious about the Elizabeth Holmes story is that she is literally a fraudster. Like the, in fact, the end of that story, both ideologically and literally personally, is that it was a fraud. And so she is being brought to justice. She's clearly totally unrepentant. She seems as sociopathic today as she ever did. I mean, even down to that voice, that trailer, I mean, I can't wait to watch a movie. The trailer where she's still, she still has that kind of deep Elizabeth Holmes voice, which is reportedly just a complete put on. It's all an act. It's all a facade, but so much of the feminist movement, so much of modern liberal society is a big put on. They say, hey, let's just pretend that reality is different than it is. It reached its apotheosis, probably in the transgender movement, where we say, you know, let's pretend that a man literally is a woman or vice versa. But that's what's amazing is when this house of cards comes tumbling down,

25:39you realize it was all a big show, a big performance that the underlying reality remains. You know, as the conservative consolation, in my view, is that reality reasserts itself in the end. But some people are still hanging on to the, to the story. And her next performance is performative wife and motherhood because she thought that that might help her get her sympathy from a jury and not send her to prison, which we know also did not work. Right, right. Absolutely. I she she is an amazing character and I friend of mine is a lawyer and he he once met with Bernie made off. And he went to his club. Yeah. And he I only heard a little bit about their meeting, but he said the most striking thing is the guy was totally unrepentant. I mean, this is this is a man who defrauded really innocent vulnerable people. Oh, survivors. Yeah, all across the right exactly right. He did. He specifically played on Jews. Yes. And I mean, these people's lives were ruined. People died. You know, I mean, they died in penures as a result of this. And apparently he just had no, no guilt whatsoever.

26:42And in all of the scenes we've seen so far from this new Elizabeth Holmes movie, you know, you don't see a hint of regret. You don't see any that of that there. And frankly, the way that our disordered culture is proceeding the way that we constantly are taking the side of criminals over the side of victims. I would not be surprised if Elizabeth Holmes starts a new company whenever she gets out of the clink. Then those people deserve to have their money stolen from them. I mean, you're going to invest in a little as well as all of sudden you deserve them. Just just give it away. Now it's just you have to be needing. She's walking. Well, it's a society again. That's how it works. Right. Yeah. And I think what you're saying, Michael, though, is like so important. We're living in this time. And I know we have like political news to get to, but I think this is so there's like such a micro of a macro issue that like, you know, the Luigi Mangeoni, like obsession, like, like it's like no crime. People just are intentionally being contrarian and saying like, oh, I'm going to go with the murder. I'm going to go with whatever yesterday on the view, which I don't watch this.

27:42But this clip has gotten so much attention. Sunny Hauston is talking about how she was on a jury for a man who cut up his wife, boiled her and fed her body parts to a homeless person. This is a real thing. Yeah, just Google it. It's all over the internet. You and and was saying that she was the lone jury to not put that man in jail, because she thought he was in psychosis and she's bragging about it. And again, clip all over social media and conservatives are going crazy about it. He bragging. She thought, yeah, that was okay. Should go to the hospital. He had psychosis. Preservation go to jail. What is it with? Because that is a divide because even with like the Lindsey Clancy trial that we've talked about at length here, I'm like the electric chair for Lindsey Clancy period. I don't get the electric chair. I don't and I want the electric chair, whatever. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care, Michael. I don't care what's going through her. I whatever you strangled your three kids. Excuse me with exercise bands. That's the only information I need to know. What what is it? I don't understand why we're why hardcore criminals murderers for audsters. There has to be reinvention of compassion for them. I don't understand it.

28:42Well, you know, in the case of this guy, the male murderer, they're going to have trouble coming up with the equivalent of postpartum depression, which is what they were obviously they were trying to pin the Lindsey Clancy murders on. For the guy, I don't know if it's like the Yankees lose or something. I get a little angry. I know that could be it, but we would never accept those as excuses. And certainly not in the idea that we need consequences for our action. So even again, I'm kind of with you on the Lindsey Clancy thing. I don't buy any of it. But even if you want to take the most reasonable, charitable pro Lindsey Clancy view, there still has to be some very, very serious consequence for the grave and justice that she perpetrated. But the left doesn't believe that. And there are plenty that that leftist view has infected a lot of the right even as well. So when the left talks about criminal justice, forget about Lindsey Clancy or the male murder or whatever. Notice what it always comes down to a structural level.

29:42They say we need to abolish prisons. We need to defund the police. We need to let people out of prison. We need to legalize certain crimes and decriminalize it. It's always about trying to minimize the role of the justice system because I think they're their foundational premise is that the justice system is not the response to crime. It is the cause of crime. And if we just if we just stop prosecuting people, if we just stop imprisoning people, then they'll stop committing crime. It's it's obviously completely backwards. I think it comes back to oddly enough what we were just talking about earlier. This idea of the Tava la Raza, the idea that we're all kind of born basically the same. No one has a precondition to crime or anything like that. And ultimately in more classical terms, what that means is that it's a denial of original sin. A heresy that has cropped up many times in history. So if someone does something wrong, they begin with the premise that it could not have been their fault. It has to have been society's fault. Something has to have been done to them to make them do it because they were born innocent as a dove.

30:46And you're seeing that play out. I don't think that the leftists who are defending these people are calling for the end of prisons. I don't think that they're conscious of that, but those are the philosophical and anthropological presuppositions that they're looking at. And the consequence of it ironically is just vast injustice. You compare the defund the police policies to Rudy Giuliani in New York, broken windows policing. It's a very small number of people who commit all the crimes. So if you just deal with those people, if you deal with the smaller crimes, if you catch them when they're doing a relatively minor crime, then they're not going to be free to go out and kill someone or name someone or so on. So the irony is the leftist policy inevitably redounds to far, far greater injustice. And it doesn't seem to be slowing down. You know, Michael, we, I love your show. We follow it. And what are the interviews that got our attention last year? I was when you interviewed a clavicular. I just thought it was like, you know, wild and that guy's wild. I don't know if you've seen this, but he has actually been arrested allegedly for assaulting and rearing.

31:50I can't say that on YouTube. Sorry, a woman involving a girl who was 17 at the time. He has denied wrongdoing. He's scheduled a rainman. I think we have the picture of the mud shot number 10. What was it like interviewing him? Are you surprised at this news? You know, when we say like, you know, there's so much happening with women that's crazy. I think he's crazy for a lot of different reasons. I think it looks maxing to me as gender affirming care. I just think it's very strange. Men getting a ton of plastic surgery. Like there's nothing about it that appeals to me. What was your takeaway interviewing him? And do you think not that like you could have predicted him committing this heinous act allegedly? But like, is it just that people like this are just in such a different world that that's the direction they've gone in? I don't know. What was it like interviewing him? And by the way, sorry, I've got the complaints. I asked 30 questions to each guest at once. I'm sorry. I'm just curious to your Michael's take on all this. No, clavicular is an amazing guy. I didn't know much about him before I met him. Some of the zoomers in the office said you got to talk to this guy. You got to meet him. And what's so interesting about him, the reason that everyone's talking about him, the reason that his

32:54lingo has now become ubiquitous, including among people who are very powerful and influential is because he is the perfect distillation of his generation. He is a guy who was raised on the internet. I asked him how he got into this idea of body modification. I think you're right to compare looks maxing to the transgender stuff because the transgender stuff is male to female gender ideology. And what's weird about looks maxing is it's male to male gender ideology. You know, in the former in the former one person becomes a caricature of the opposite sex and in the latter, the person becomes a caricature of his own sex, but it's a similar principle. And so he said that when he was 14, he was on these bodybuilding forums. And that's where he got the idea to inject testosterone and then online he was ordering the testosterone. His parents would find it they'd throw it out. Well, he just go and order more. And it was this process of just a kind of virtual upbringing and a cultivation of

33:59memetic desire from all of the kind of weirdest niches of the internet that made him into this this sort of perfect specimen, perfect creature of the internet. And so I find that very interesting. I think he's very talented in media. He's really, really sharp with his rhetoric. He knows what's going to work online. He knows what clips are going to work. That's really impressive. And I don't think that he is fundamentally some evil or nefarious guy. That's not the impression I've got. I've interviewed people like that. That was not the impression that I got from him. He just struck me as a very young guy who was, who had some inclinations to do good, but he also was, was drawn in this miasma, this, this very decadent culture of the internet. And so he was doing bad stuff too. So I'm not surprised that he was arrested for this. I looked up. I didn't look too deeply into it. But I looked up the details of the charges. And apparently, as you said, he, he's 20. He apparently had some kind of relationship with a 17 year old girl.

34:59And so I don't know the, if there were Romeo and Juliet laws in the jurisdiction. I don't, sometimes there are laws that, that protect people who are like 19 who sleep with a 17 year old. I don't know. I just don't know the law there. That seems to be what's going on. And then I guess they got drunk together and then went to bed and then she woke up and she says that he, he raped her. We'll see. He might be held to a county, might go to prison for that. It might be messier. I don't know. But it, regardless of the criminality of it, this is totally predictable because if, if you allow yourself to become this character, where your whole role is picking up chicks, sleeping with women that you're not married to, doing drugs, staying out late, doing things that are kind of naughty and get clicks, that's going to bite you. Even, even if you don't literally violate the law, that, that is not going to be conducive to a flourishing life. And so the, the big question that I kept going, coming back to in my interview with Clavicular was, what is this for?

36:01What are you doing this for? And he has this very funny answer. He says, well, I just want to mow people this great verb that, what does that mean? It means to excel someone, to exceed someone. So, I, you know, I, I sound like a huge boomer just trying to do a folk etymology. I'm like, what does that mean? Yes. So, because I asked him, I said, so hold on. You want to look really good so that you can pick up chicks. He goes, yeah, yeah, that's part of it. I said, okay. But the drugs that you're injecting into yourself, in some cases, prevent you from, from having sex with women, to put it bluntly, you know, I can make it infertile, right? Yeah, infertile. I can do all this. I said, so the thing that you're trying to achieve is undermined by the way that you're trying to achieve it. He said, oh, no, that doesn't really matter. In other words, as if to say, when I go out, the pleasure is on the point. The point is to like up your stats, essentially. Yes, because like when I was a single guy, I would go at a date. And the purpose of dating is to find a woman so that you can get married so that you can have a kid.

37:07He has marriages ordered toward the procreation and education of children. And like there's a point. There's a T-loss to it. And what's so amazing about the case of clavicular is the T-loss is totally undermined. The T-loss is almost sidelined. He said, no, I just want to mage. I just want to seem better than the other people. He's beautiful woman. He doesn't care whether he's hooking up with them or not. It's a really good thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so that's what makes me, I am a little bit skeptical of the details of this case. You know, the headline said he drugged and raped a minor. I said, oh my goodness, great. That's horrifying. And then the D does seem like they had some pre-existing relationship and they might be covered by a Romeo and Juliet law. And the drugs might have just been they were both drinking together. And so I don't know the details. I'm sure that all that we don't know. But you know, a lot of his content is consumed by teenage boys. So clavicular's personal reasons aside. Do you think that platforms or parents understand how extreme a lot of this communities have become?

38:09Right. Well, this is the problem is like in a way the the legality question of the clavicular case kind of undermines the more important conversation, which and it's one that I tried to impress upon him. And I hope he, you know, he's very talented. So I hope he gets, you know, more on more toward the right path. But this is not good behavior. This is not the kind of staying out super pretty college. Not beyond bad. It's dangerous. It's deeply dangerous. It will not be. I have little girls Megan has little girls like this is I don't want to send them into the world with boys who are looking up to this kid. No, it also it won't lead to a flourishing life. And to your point, so many young men are consuming not just his content, but all content on the internet. So there's this added concern of scandal scandal, which is where you become the cause of someone else's sin. And what's especially interesting about the clavicular cases. That is the creation of his character. The origin story of the character that he plays on camera is that he was

39:12consuming the earlier version of this content when he was 14 years old and it flowered into this thing. So you can imagine in a process of like semi-iosis or something. You can you can imagine the end my me says this would just extend throughout the culture such that 10 or 20 years from now. Who knows what the what the next. It's going to be who was raised on this. I saw a video of him to during COVID where he had like graduated from middle school. And it was really depressing because he was you know alone in his house. And I think his parents were like sitting with him on the couch celebrating. And part of me was like we have so royally screwed up an entire generation of young people in this age range during the COVID time with lockdown. I see it just anecdotally with not close family members, but like sort of distant family members and young cousins that have been. I mean, I think the root of a lot of their problems is they just never got to have a normal high school experience. And so now like college is such a different place because they never got to go to prom and go to class and they were locked down for years and years.

40:16And that is one of my big takeaways from him is like I don't know if clovicular exists without COVID. Do you agree with that premise? Certainly because COVID just accelerated a trend that already existed. People were becoming less social. You know, we had Robert Putnam's bowling alone was written how many years ago now you just break down of civil society. You break down of in person socializing. Then COVID just massively exponentially accelerated that. And this is a big problem because man is a social creature. So we're not, you know, the smartest thing Kamala Harris ever said we don't fall out of a coconut tree. It was maybe the only smart thing she's ever said. And so we we become most fully human in society with other people and we're bodies as well as souls. So you can't just do that online. You have to do that in real life. You have to you have to hug granny. They wouldn't let you hug your granny during COVID. You have to be able to do that kind of thing. And so yet you have a whole generation that is is a product of that. And when you look at the rates of the prescription of depression drugs when you look at rates of self reported happiness, when you look at

41:21anti social behaviors, the generation is not doing very well. Yeah, it's really one more thing. Is that with him for more than two hours? Was there anything that sticks out to you now with all the revelations? With everything, not just this particular criminal case. That sticks out to you now that maybe didn't ping you or razor red flags and send on or off camera. No, not really. I think Clivicular getting in trouble with the law, whether because he actually committed a crime or just because he was in the well, his drug overdose. I mean, you've been talking about that happened. And exactly the drug overdose, the staying out, the relate, all that kind of stuff. I know none of that is surprising at all when you engage in bad behaviors. It bites you. That's just what happens. And so none of that surprises me. The thing that I found surprising in the moment though and actually caused me some reflection. We were talking about politics and he said, a politics is gesture.

42:22Politics is gesture. He said, yeah, yeah. I said, no, but there's a lot of bad stuff people are trying to do. They're flooding your country with foreigners and they're, you know, he's trading little kids and you always said to me, especially when we got to the transgender bit, he goes, Michael, look at you. You just spiked your cortisol. That's going to make you look worse. It's going to get you upset. Your blood pressure. Everything is about how we look at the end of the day. It's the relevance. What are you going to get old, dude, and die? So I said, good, well, we're here. When we were talking about the trans thing in particular, I said, doesn't, doesn't that worry you? Isn't that the sort of thing that we should stop? He goes, no, trainees are just another person to mag. This is great. Good. Good. There's a kind of, I mean, on the one hand, there's this perfection of narcissism, whether he's playing a character, he's making a point or if it's, it's smart enough to be playing a character. It's very philosophically Zen, but at the same time, is this legitimate? I just, I want to say something and I'm so sorry if anyone finds this. I don't find him attractive.

43:24I don't. I just, I, I'm so sorry. It's a lot of work to look like. It's like hand. Good word. Very feminine. I mean, you guys know the man I married. It's just saying I just find this. It's a weird and these looks like a girl. I'm sorry. Okay. We can. We should move on for this. We can try to be a living. We can try to be a living. We could. Well, there's already thing else you want to say. I just think it's interesting that you interviewed him and, you know, it's like you. Again, that's my last question. I guess. Yeah, I would. I did worry because my, my entry. No, no false modesty and true humility. I do think my interview accelerated his rise to the top of the public discussion. He might have gotten there anyway. He's talented and he's an impressive guy. But I definitely played a role in that. I said, should I have done that? Was that something wrong that I did? You know, was it, was it just sensationalism or something? And I don't think so. I ultimately concluded no. The person I most worry about. I think his rise has been illustrative and it does

44:24cause some reflection and is culturally interesting if not even important. I do worry that it's not good for him. I worry that fame will be very bad for him because fame is really bad for most people. And what fame, people think that makes you worse or makes you better. Fame just kind of amplifies whatever you've got going on in your life. So if you're already inclined towards some bad things, fame is going to make it a lot worse. So I do worry about that. And I, so I hope he gets back on the right path. Maybe some of these scandals and legal proceedings even will help him to do that. Because when people try to write him off as just a goofball with a bunch of stupid lingo, I think they're actually missing something. He, clavicular may very well be the voice of the zoomer generation. And so we have to help him. I mean, for better and for worse, we have to understand where he's coming from. One, to fix some of those social pathologies of the generation. And to even see some of the failures that millennials, Gen X and boomers have made that led to it.

45:25Yeah, no, and I agree on even just like, you know, criminality, all this stuff aside, it's a fascinating conversation about where we're at culturally, especially with young men. I do want to move on though, although I could talk about this for another hour, but, you know, we don't have the time. I don't know about you, Michael, but there are so many people in my life that are really panicking about the midterms coming up. There was like a bunch of polls that just came out. Marquette one, which I don't really trust Marquette polling, but whatever. I mean, Reuters polling, saying that Trump's approvals at 32%. You know, different voting, massing that Texas is in play. I never know if that's real or not. I think if anyone's going to win at any point, I guess it would be Tallerico, but I still think the fundamentals of Texas. That would be a very, you know, challenging road to go. Why are you nervous about the midterms? And what do you think is going wrong? And I don't always believe all polling, but I think there's a major, like too much of a majority of like consensus of polling is showing that there's certainly disenfranchisement and anger in the country.

46:28Yeah, I won't say I'm nervous about it because I've made my peace with it. I think it's going to be disastrous. And we see this in Texas, to your point, every cycle, Beto is going to turn Texas blue. No, Colin all red is going to turn Texas blue now. And the Republicans always managed to squeak it out. But the numbers are pretty devastating here because the best thing the Republicans have going for them right now is President Trump. Trump just tends to do better, turning out the Republican base than any of the other Republicans do. And so if Trump's approval rating is at 32%, now we're in pretty big trouble. You maybe discount the polls, but then you look at the prediction markets, the prediction markets now Calci earlier today has Republicans, I think it like a 35% chance of keeping the Senate overwhelming chance that the Republicans lose the Senate. And then you say, OK, why don't trust the prediction markets? Well, let's look at how the campaigns are operating. You get two big super PACs who are pulling money out of the Wattley race in North Carolina, a Republican signaling that they're not fully giving up on North Carolina, but they don't think it's likely.

47:35Meanwhile, I'm sure you're talking to a ton of people around the beltway. I'm speaking to my friends on Capitol Hill and they're preparing for disaster as well. So it's brutal. And I think there are a few factors at play here. One of them is historically the Republicans should do badly in the midterms simply because it's the first midterm after they won unified government. So that's just kind of what happens and it was already going to be a tough situation. But the other big issue really is the Iran war. Even if the Iran war is not responsible, chiefly for the surge in gas prices or diesel prices, the cost of food or whatever, people perceive it to be the cause of those problems. It is creating those problems. I think at this point we have to say that diesel prices going up probably do relate to Iran. That the way that the Iran war was presented was that and I think what people hoped for is that it would be a brief digression. Wouldn't be that important. You could get a huge grand strategic win out of it and then we could move on.

48:37But it's more significant and my biggest data point on this of course is Bill Crystal comes out yesterday. Bill Chris, I mean, Bill, you know, say what you well about Bill. That guy was one of the intellectual leaders of the American right for decades. And then he becomes a Democrat and now he's endorsing a bunch of socialists. But you say, okay, there's one thing. There's one principle that I know Bill Crystal will not betray and that is getting more wars in the Middle East. He loves war. You know, he loves it. And did you see yesterday he tweets how he says Democrats need to run on getting America out of the Middle East. And I say, whoa. And Bill Crystal again, he's like going kind of crazy, but he is a pretty intelligent guy. And so if even Bill Crystal is wrong, is he? I think he's intelligent. I mean, he's like wrong about. Broken clock is right twice a day, Megan. I mean, Michael, he tweeted at me that he knew his, my dad better than I did. Like, like, please find it. I know. And I was like, you know what?

49:38Sure. That's what you need to put on your pillow and I bill like he's just and he's so, he's like such a boomer. Like, he's like a, what is it? Like a progressive boomer cliche where it's like he didn't get what he wanted. So instead of just like, you know, living with the like person who brought you to the party, you know, in any way. Like I don't understand. I'm always like, if I can like come to terms with Trump and give him props, where it's deserved, what's your excuse? Yes. Well, because Megan, your position is legitimately a principled position. Which is like, hey, I believe in certain things. And when even though Trump, you know, has been a little tough on my family, I'm going to give him credit where it is due. And I'm going to recognize that there's this broader political movement. It's not not just all about personal feelings. That's like an allegedly principled view. Bill Crystal, who is always talking about his supposed principles, he's turned his back on every single issue he's ever believed in, purportedly believed in, including now apparently war in the Middle East. And it's an abortion. Like, they think that are religious.

50:39I mean, yeah, sorry. All of it because his ultimate principle is Bill Crystal having power and influence. And when he lost that with Trump, he was totally out. He gave up everything else. But the reason I bring him up is because to me, that's a really scary data point. It says that the Iran War really is a big issue. And maybe it shouldn't be. Maybe we can make arguments as to why, you know, the cost of goods increasing is more to do with interest rates and housing. But it doesn't matter, you know, what ultimately matters is what the voters think at the ballot box. So it's, I think it's going to be pretty bad in 26. And then some people are trying to cope and they're arguing and they're saying, well, look, if Republicans get blown out in 26, that's actually good for us in 28. Because people are going to see all these crazy Democrat politicians and they're going to swing back and then we'll win the presidency in 28. I don't buy that for a second. I don't think you win by losing. I think you win by winning. And all the Democrats are going to do. They're not going to pass any laws if they take the House in the Senate. They can't. Trump is going to stop them. So they're going to send, you know, the free candy and puppies bill to the White House every week.

51:39Trump's going to shoot it down. They're going to campaign on it. What they're really going to do is just investigate subpoena every single Republican in the country. Anyone with any influence, they're going to make them all look crooked as can be. Even if they don't violate a single law, it's going to be, it's going to be tough. And Republicans need to start preparing for that now because this could be a four year run. Yeah, I agree with you that all the, you know, nothing makes me feel more conservative than looking at the policies of the left. So, you know, if what, you know, El Sayed gets into power, I'm definitely like the blood vessel in my neck is going to be exploding every morning when I read everything about him making me feel more conservative. But I agree with you that we don't win by losing. I just, to me, you know, Ed and this is like going back, you know, two years obviously when Trump grew the coalition so large and I felt like I was sort of like brought to Trump through RFK and Tulsi. Like I felt like they like and Charlie Kirk. I felt like these three people really opened the door for me to like come and be joined. And there was this feeling of just like, whatever that is, I'm not for it and we're all for this.

52:42And it makes me really sad that it seems like so many factions of the coalition are, you know, pedoring off and don't seem to be as enthusiastic. And I don't want, I don't want Gavin Newsom or some other psychopath to be president. So, you know, is there, do you think there's any chance of the Rand War ending anytime soon? No, because Iran knows when our elections are to. So that is a problem. It's not like we have a secret calendar of when our midterms are. They know when it is. So anyone could have predicted it a month or two ago that the Iranians would make it tougher every day that goes by as we get closer to the midterm elections. And you're saying, I think you're seeing Democrats do this. They're kind of pushing for this stuff. When the trade talks between the US and Canada break down, Democrats were thrilled about that. Democrats maybe had something to do with that, you know, because they just need maximum pain before November. So I don't see it happening. I mean, I think there are plenty of good arguments, obviously for stopping Iran's nuclear program.

53:42Plenty of good arguments for getting rid of the Iranian regime. It's just that the trouble is the Iranian regime is a lot more durable than people give a credit for. The CIA, the United States was involved in implementing the Iranian regime after the ousting of Mosadak in 1953. And that regime lasted what, 26 years? The Mullahs, the crazy Islamic regime, that's lasted almost twice as long as that. So they have a billion contingency plans. They're much harder to oust. And there's a lot at stake for the United States. I mean, in some ways, this could be our Suez moment, the moment when the Brits and France really declined as major world imperial powers. Because a lot of the credibility of the United States is on the line here. So Trump is very good at foreign policy. He has an excellent record and he's very good at making deals and he's very good at bringing other people to the table. But even if he gets a deal, it's impossible that it would happen before the midterm elections. And in fact, the president has said as much. It's really depressing, Michael. I don't know. I don't know what else to say.

54:42I'm just kind of breaking my heart. But I think you're right. I always like to have you like the play. I know. I don't know. I just, I don't know. I wish I had, I don't know. I wish I had more positive things to say about this. It's just really making me sad. I know you don't have like a ton of time and I really appreciate you coming here. Is there anything you want to say before we say goodbye? First of all, I really appreciate your fall autumn candle. It looks really beautiful. What does it smell like? I need to know the sense. It's fragrance. Thank you. So this is from the Michael Knowles collection of candles. You can get it at the candleclub.com. I don't even get a really. Is that a real thing? This is my personal candle. Why don't we have a candle? They're so. I'm jealous. I love them. This one. So we have seasonal varieties. We have pumpkin spice. That's one of my favorites. Smells and bells make your home smell like a 12th century church. This one we call the upper crust. It's apple cobbler and you will enjoy it very much. You bring it into your home. I buy that. I can again.

55:42Again, again, yes, the candleclub.com. That's the. I know what Michael knows what a kill. That's right. Yes, that's the one you get the you got to get the Knowles collection. The rest of the candles smell terrible. So only get mine. Except for the one Megan and I are about to make. I'm going to run a car to hustle you right out of business. That's right. Yeah, it's I'll make an introduction. I won't even take a. Please do. I want a candle. Well, that's amazing. And like it's a we're going to pick up your candles. Thank you for your time and you know, maybe I'll see you after election time. Maybe it won't be so bad. Who knows? I'll see you when they ship us all off to the labor camps or whatever. I'll definitely see. I'll see if we can get a drink or something before that. Chatea just bitches. They're not going to give us any kind. We can't. I'm always like no matter who's in charge. I'm definitely one of the first people like hold off. They're like, he talks too much like. I want to sit on the floor and like in junior high PE and like make Daisy chains and just talk to each other because I can't do work. And that's not good. I'm good at doing this. Also check out the new daily wire movie run hide fight in Fidel's on daily wire.com

56:47like is that we're in watch it this weekend. Go get it. It's it's explode. You get the explosions there and then you'll get the nice fire coming out of your candle. It'll be very fire evening. Wonderful to see all of you. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Michael. Thank you. Getting that candle. Not kidding. I'm getting that. And we're getting the sponsor at the candle co. Quints legitimately because we have we have to do this right now. Legitimately quints has the best apple cider fall candle. I just yeah, it just came in the mail from yesterday and I put it in my bedroom on our nightstand and yesterday I was writing my sub stack. So I'm trying to write some stack better. I'm trying to get back into it and it's my room smelled. I was like, oh, this is like and it was raining outside. I was like, what a what a fall. I'm going to experience with my quints candles. Thank you so much. I'm just going to also do you like my quints dress my green quints. This is a dress from Quints as well. I'm going to do out of the city bars. I'm jealous. I'm so I'm going to I have bought a lot of new wardrobe. I'm not going to lie to you guys. I have bought a lot of stuff at Quints lately because it's like and it's not just because they're our partner.

57:47It is like stuff for the kids stuff for me stuff for bed home stuff. I got a candle. I just bought a under eye cream because they have beauty products too. Like and I have the app on my phone. So it's just easy. Like click click click click and then it's there and deck core for my like house. Because I just you know by my house and we're like unpacking and the oh, where's this going to go and what are we going to put in this room? And oh, I don't like that anymore. Let's get rid of that. And I have a bunch of stuff like in my wish list and my maybe pile because and on the quince app because it's so cool and everything. They have a cute coffee table. I don't need a coffee table, but they have a very cute coffee table. I'm in the market for a console table for like when you walk in the house to put your mail and your keys and just like your general stuff down on that's what I'm looking at right now is console tables and they have good ones. They really want to join Miranda and I and our quince journey this fall. It's all like an ism. Yes. Please go to we have a little QR code for you. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at quince download the quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash McCain and get free shipping

58:48on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. That's quince qionce.com slash McCain and when I am also trying to be cozy. I want my cozy earth blanket and I want my cozy earth bathrobe and I want my cozy earth towels and let me tell you nobody on planet earth has more towels in their home that they go through than me and my family. For some reason everybody is just using and using towels and I need towels all the time and then I go to cozy earth.com and I use my code McCain for up to 20 percent off home and sleepwear and you can do that's code McCain my last name. MCC AIN for up to 20 percent off home and sleepwear and if you see a post purchase survey please please please mention that you heard about cozy earth right here and thank you to cozy earth for the partnership and for keeping my family dry and clean and those towels save my life. The quit I'm telling you that cozy earth towels save my life and they're wonderful and cozy and like plush and all things. We're out of time. I would like to make a special apology to Ashley and Miranda

59:53putting all these notes and clips together. The work of the three AM. I really feel bad today. I apologize to Ian Ashley and Miranda. I really do like I had all this stuff. I'm sorry Ashley. We just got on a tangent. I'm sorry. We had all these things. The clavicular show you're railed by clavicular and Elizabeth. Because in the notes. I'm telling you put the paper down because it's making your face shop. Larry. Hold on. Fix it. We had the Channing wait Instagram burner story which is money. What? The YouTube chat is requesting housewives. Yeah. We've been talking a lot. This is a thing. I need we need to talk about this. Okay. And then we'll say goodbye. I need to talk about this with you. Okay. Okay. I'm over the housewives. Oh, see, I'm back in. Nope. I don't. I just I was going on with me.

1:00:54I want the old school housewives. I don't have the time for this. I will. I need to watch Salt Lake City. That's the one that I will. I will watch. But I just make a case to you right now. New York housewives. Okay, please do. Okay. I was out. I was with you. Remember I told you I was out and then I texted you. She got the skabies. Oh, no, no, no, no. I didn't first of all I didn't have skabies. I'd shingles different. Second, you get skabies from like staying at a prostitute hotel. I think you get it from me on a ship and not having vitamin C. Right? That's entirely that's what sailors get. That's something else. Skurvy. Skurvy. I'm sorry. Oranges. Sorry. You're getting all of our S diseases mixed up. Okay. I had shingles. Skabies or skurvy. Okay, we're going to take you. I kind of wish you had skurvy.

1:01:55I'll get skurvy just for you. I'm going to. Right starting today. I'm not going to have any vitamin C. Okay, and then I'll get skurvy. Why is that so money? This is a pirate disease. I don't have got some Salt Lake City because I hope yes to you. Okay, Salt Lake City is actually very good. The first episode. It's it's sad for like a second. Okay, stop. Mary cost these sons. Not the whole thing. Not the whole thing. And Mary finds a way to make it not sad because it's Mary. And she's joyful and she's like, you know, it's a homegoing. It's a homecoming, whatever. She makes it beautiful and that's sort of like way of dealing with it. It's Mary. It's it's good. I thought she was going to quit the show. I was so sad. She hasn't quit the show. She's on the show. It's so good. Watch Salt Lake City. It's not depressing. New New York. They own like they recast like almost everyone. They brought in Carol and they brought back Carol. Excuse me, Radzwell from the previous season. So that's a legacy cast number, which we've been asking for. And she's annoying so we can be annoyed and hate her.

1:02:57They kept Aaron and Jezzle because they are very annoying and have fight with each other and Jezzle makes an ass out of herself on the first or second episode. They have these two girls, Daisy and something else who are insane and amazing to watch crazy. And they have this girl who Mary's son, like tech billionaire and her name is Erica and his last name is Jane. We have another housewife named Erica Jane, which is wild. I know. And it doesn't have good. I don't need to see a bunch of influencers. They're not. No, no, they're not influencers. They are normal people. One of the women is Martha Stewart's makeup girl, but the old people are still back and they're so boring. They're not there. There's a lot of people. I can only commit to Salt Lake City. I will commit to Salt Lake City. New York is good. New York is good. And I never thought I would say that I also want to say that in New York and just talk so much shit about Republicans all the time. And I just Andy Cohen and I just I'm not like this show. I'm like, you know what?

1:03:58Fuck me. Fuck you. That's how I feel about this. Like, you know, if you want to say fuck all Republicans and fuck all Republicans, I don't want to watch anymore. And that's a good way that I don't want to watch people who know Mark Ruffalo. No, like I've got to listen. It's not people who are liberal. You can be liberal and have your politics. That's fine. It's the active, trashing of conservatives, particularly conservative women is when I, I leave. So, but I will commit to Salt Lake City. Salt Lake City is good. And I like. Only if I to got skis or what it was. Shingles. Even I forgot what I had. I'm like, I got scurvy too. No, I have the shingles. I'm fine now. But I do recommend and I like the Old Man Girls trip, all stars or whatever. Because Vicki Gondelsen is a maniac and a menace to society. That time for this. You should not be on TV. That time for this. Miranda, thank you. I'm glad you're better. We'll be back again next week. We have some, we have the extra show coming out Fridays. All right, Ashley. Yes, we have our show with the Kennedy Center special.

1:04:59Yes, Kennedy Center with the blower, Joseph Palermo, Miranda and I did a very deep dive in all the controversy and scandal happening and money mismanagement. And just like the, honestly, the abject disaster that is the Kennedy Center right now, it is a very interesting and sad interview. But it's really compelling and Joseph tells his entire story. And I thought it was really good. So it comes early in the day. This is the most well, not to tutor on one. It's like really the most well-rounded coverage. I've, I've seen or experienced about the whole situation from top to bottom. It's insane. What really went on. Interesting to interview a whistle blower. Like I haven't done that before. I don't think it was like an interesting. I thought it was interesting. Anyway, oh, wait, sorry. Like subscribe, right? Yeah, subscribe to our. The two people who are still here. We're the love of God and all that is holy like and subscribe so we can keep making this show. Help me help you. You like watching it. We like making it, but we got to have more likes and subscribers. Look, if these bitches are going to be out here, not taking money from Qatar and trafficking in Charlie Kirk conspiracy theories, you got to help us out.

1:06:01Like we want to take the high road. The high road will don't take money from Russia. We don't take money from anyone, but two ways. So nice and subscribe and tell your grandma to do it too, because we need, we're nice. And we want to keep doing this and in a nice way. And so do it. The YouTube channel is saying it's a new show and this week was amazing. So thank you. We had a good time during this week also. We had a very, very, very lovely, spitt of shows and we're proud of them. So we look forward to doing it for you again next week. Thank you guys. And as soon as Miranda gets over her scurvy. I'm going to catch scurvy and then get over it and I'll tell you all about it. So so you don't have to get to her. All right. Thank you guys. See you next week.