Does Ron Hate New Technology? Eps 512

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1:05But we also have a few haters. And this episode is dedicated to them. Well, I've got some help today, guys, to fend off all of the hate. Griffin is here with his kung fu skills. Blocking out the haters. No, a lot of these people that write into some hateful messes and stuff. Sometimes have a little bit of substance behind their hatred. You know what? I think it's worth addressing. Anytime someone criticizes you or me or anybody else, it's kind of worth thinking about is this legit. And I really such a big jerk. And you can kind of clean up your act. And I appreciate that kind of thing. But let's read some of what's going to dive right in. Some of our favorites we've picked through. Yeah. Griffin here has picked some of these out. He thinks they're pretty good. So and some of them are pretty reasonable too. Let's start with some reasonable ones. This is someone called new technology, I guess. He says, I can't afford to

2:05even dream of doing half the stuff that you guys are doing or even talking about. Hunting is now a rich man sports, kind of like Victorian England times. What do you think of that, Griff? I mean, I think I'm going to have to agree with him on the expensive part. But the only thing is, I think it's not just hunting in general. I think about everything in life has gone up in price. I think hunting has kind of taken a big forward of that because a lot more people want to do it. I think that sport in general has grown at least in the eyes of the public. But I also, I think we've got quite a lot of price rates going up regardless. We all can see the price of gas right now. So I would agree on the front that everything has now got more expensive. But hunting in general, I mean, I think certain types of hunting have gone up. Guided elk hunts, hunting grizzly bears in Alaska, all that kind of stuff there, astronomically expensive. But you can still go out and hunt rabbits for basically free and quite a few states. Yeah, you just get a basic license. You have to find a basic license to go out that. It's just,

3:07I think people, they see these big trophies that all these people are killing and they want to go do it themselves and then look at the price tag and say, oh, yeah, that's expensive. Well, not everything is about that specific large trophy, that specific content they're going on. Yeah. I think it's quite a bit of legitimacy in what he's saying. For several reasons, one, it's a population of any country increases the land area, essentially shrinks because there's more people wanting to use it. You somehow have to limit. There are so many deer elk bears, et cetera, out there. How do you limit who gets access to them? And then you're getting a little bit of commercial interest involved. So there's the state and the state realizes when these hunters come in to take the big elk with the grizzly bear, they bring money. They stay at hotels, they buy gas and groceries and restaurants and all these things. So that's good thing. And so we've got this resource. Why should we let all of our locals have it for $10 for the license when we can get $2,000 for a license from a non-resident? So there's their

4:09incentive to raise the price. Plus by charging more for the non-resident, they placate the residents. You say, I don't want all these non-resident's coming in and shooting all my gain. And then there's the argument about well, a lot of your country is federal land. So it really belongs to everybody. So there's got to be a balance of some kind. I think we've done a fairly good job of balancing it. At the same time, when I see tags for animals that I used to get for $50, $60, now going for $1,000, $2,000, some of them are even up to $3,000, seems a little bit exorbitant. But as you say, with the cost of everything going up, is it really more based on that cost ratio having gone up? Fish and games still has to have vehicles and pay game ordns and biologists and all the other things. And we've got to have a little bit or a lot of that. Or we wouldn't have it a game left. We just let it go. We come up free for all. So there's that aspect of it. And I think you can draw the same conclusion outside of hunting. Because I think we kind of get stuck around hunting bubble. If that's your world revolves around hunting, which a lot

5:12of us, especially if you're going to be watching this probably does. But if you take it, so I'm from Utah, and Utah is known for its skiing. If you take the exact same comments and just turn the word from hunting to skiing or snowboarding, it would be almost like word for word about complaints. Because you've got all these big resorts that have had to bump up their rates because you get all these people, these non-residents from non-utions that are now coming in to go ski these this epic slopes. And you get all these people hating on the non-residents and saying that it's so crowded and that the lift tickets have gone up. So it's not just us hunters that are facing these new hike rates. I think in general, especially after COVID, a lot of people wanted to get outdoors and kind of spend some time. And I think that's why we're also seeing this too is because people are kind of feeling maybe like they spend too much time online and they want to get away from that. What better way to do that than go out and enjoy the outdoors, either skiing or in our case, hunting. Yeah. Good, good point. I think part of the reason that we think hunting should be inexpensive if not flat out free is because of our hunting tradition in this country. It was flat

6:15out free. Back in the day, we, unlike the peasants back in England and Germany and all the European countries, the average peasant like us could go hunting at no charge. And then there became a small fee for a license to control things a little bit and then a little more and a little more. That all adds up. But I think the bigger issue is this Victorian style where the wealthy people were guided and taken care of and held hands and all the rest of it. And that certainly goes on and the outfitters take advantage of it because they know there's a certain number of clients with plenty of money and they don't have the time or inclination to come out and do all the scouting and the hard things that you do as a hunting guide. So they want to pay you to do it. And they can pay you to do it. So why should you offer that one hunt that you can guide that week to somebody who wants to give you a thousand dollars when you can give it to somebody who wants to give you ten thousand dollars? Yeah. So all of it kind of plays into human nature and I think everyone out there, even the gentleman who wrote this would do the same thing. If he had a property that he could take two deer off a year and so many offered him a hundred dollars to go hunting and another guy said I'll

7:18give you five thousand dollars. Who do you suppose he's going to take? So I sort of a legitimate complaint but also understandable. But as you said, there's still plenty of really low cost hunting. I cannot think of a lot of outdoor recreation like you mentioned the skiing part of it. Golfing. Where's it cost you? Golfing. I mean you could, there's more than just hunting and skiing too. I mean there's plenty of other different outdoor and even indoor activities that have gone up and price. Yeah, it seemed like they charge for everything including parking. At least we don't have to pay for parking when we go. It depends on where you go. I made me so. But yeah, legitimate gripe. But still I think the fact that in some eastern states where they have an overabundance of whitetail you can buy a license and or tag and shoot a deer a day or five a season. Wow. Whereas out here in the west where it's a huge demand and the limited resource is only so many mule during elk to go around kind of a thing. You kind of have to say, well, why don't we sell into the highest bidder? Almost comes down to an auction. Yeah, in a lot of states it does. But I think

8:22the fishing game agencies buying large are doing a pretty fair job of allocating it. They've got your prices up on the license itself. But after that it's like you or the wealthiest guy in America have the same chance to draw that tag. It's not like anybody's buying them off like they used to do in the battle days. Yeah. Cool. Anything else you want to add to that Griff? No, I think that's you've basically covered it. Okay. Now this is water meloney who says those three. What do you think? It's a big game. I don't know exactly what he's saying here, but it sounds like people like Ron Spomer exist to help manufacturers sell stuff. They do that by making you feel that what you have is inadequate. So you go by the new hotness where I come from people feel the freezer every year with generational rifles. So it sounds like he's mostly complaining that I am selling stuff. I'm helping the manufacturers to sell stuff. What do you think of that? I think I hope that he watches more than just one video

9:22than probably the one he commented on. But I mean, we've done a ton of different videos where we've talked about, hey, you don't have to buy a fan singing rifle. You can go take your grandpa's rifle when you picked up from a pawn shop. I mean, your cheapest rifle and still killed deer or elk or moose or whatever. The bare minimum work. The thing is is that man wants to innovate. We always want the better mouse trap, as you say. And the unfortunate thing for us is in the entertainment industry and we give you guys this information and we try to entertain you. We kind of have to keep on top of the new and cool stuff to get the views and to get the attention to make our living. But if we were just made a video every single week, hey, look at this old rifle. Hey, look at this old. It gets a little old. So we want to kind of make things entertainment new for you guys, not just showing you what we've already seen 40 other times. But I think we I always thought I was going to be accused of doing too many old Fud rifles. And I get that a lot of guys was out there. No, no, no, no. Fud rifle review from Fudron. Yeah. And I feel like we do we try to

10:22do a good mix like we will show you in the new stuff and the new innovative stuff. And sometimes we're like dead set on it. We're like, Oh, this is really cool because we actually do think it's cool or innovative. Yeah. And then sometimes we are the ones that are like, Yeah, I don't know. This just seems like I mean, you see it a lot with especially like when we've written some comments here later, people talk about the new six five peak. If you look at the actual numbers, it's right along the same lines as the 270. We're not saying that it's necessarily better than the 270, but the technology is. Yeah. Yeah. It's in some of the rifles that we get a lot of views on when we review them are expensive rifles. And I don't see anything wrong with that because most of us have aspirations for something better, you know, instead of driving our Chevy or Ford or on, we'd like to pick up a maybe a Maserati. Yeah. Well, you think look about it this way. When we compared skiing and hunting, you can talk about cars like you just said, I mean, when you're driving down commute and to work in all of a sudden a Lambo pulls up next year, you're like, whoa. Or is it like an old like model T and you're like, whoa, that's cool. That's cool. If someone pulls

11:23up you and they're like, they're black F150, this got mud on it, you're like, you know, if you even look over at all. Yeah. So if you're if you're talking about that, like what gains the most attention, we're going to have to go a little bit and we'll try to show you in between two and we I feel like we do a fair bit of that. But you got to understand that humans want to see cool and new, and they want to see things that they're nostalgic about. Well, this guy is sort of laying on top of us here. We're going to do a pile on Texas Longhorn Ranch says, holy smokes, he's not catering to the common man. That stuff is really expensive. Now, I don't know which video he was looking at, but yeah, I could have been one of our expensive videos. But again, we just recently did a video on the three least expensive rifles. We kind of did a quick search and we can pick this thing up for like, yeah, they were the least expensive ones. What can you get from a rifle at that? Do they really shoot sub-M away like so many people say? Is it a goodbye or not? Let's just sample the things and we did an extensive test with it. We've got more shows coming up with the same. They tune. It's

12:24going to get interesting. Yeah, I just say that real interesting. Oh, did we learn a thing or two on that one? Put a lot of time and effort into it too. So guys, I can appreciate you thinking when we show a rifle that costs $10,000, $20,000 or something. It's as ridiculous. But there are plenty of people out there who think, yeah, jump change. I think I'll buy one. We cannot decide how much money each of our viewers is making or not making what their discretionary income may or may not be. We just are interested in all aspects of guns and ammo and hunting paraphernalia and the hunting itself. So we try to cover the waterfront. So cut us a little slack if you can. You know, if it's like too expensive for you and don't get jealous and you don't have to buy it. You don't have to take our advice. You can go and hunt with your grandpa's rifle that'll still kill deer. Yeah, in fact, write us a letter saying, well, you know, it'd be nice to have that $10,000 rifle. But this $50 rifle, my grandpa got at a pawn shop 50 years ago. Still is laying them out and it shoots half M.O.A. groups and send us a picture of the group or something. That'd be cool. Yeah, so we're

13:25going to applaud you for that one. Like, great job. You killed a deer with your grandpa's rifle. That's honestly, I would say that's cooler than using a brand spanking new fancy new technology, rifle. Here we go. This next one looks like I see pawn shop in here. Here we go. This is user ZY3SU1GZ9C. You guys have some well names out there. And right here, she says you can get a rifle for a couple hundred bucks at a pawn shop. And public land is free to hunt on with a license. I grew up in Down East Maine. The cost to go hunting every year was the price of a license, which I got for free because I'm a native American. My point is hunting is inexpensive at all compared to a lot of sports. It's only five bucks to tag a deer where I live. How is hunting getting expensive? Well, where I come from, poor people do it for cheap meat. There you go. This guy's not complaining. He seems like he's getting a good program. Now, some groups, like I think there are some states that even allow a lower price license for seniors. Oh, yeah. And you. You think senior chef. Yeah,

14:26kids can get in really inexpensively if they're even at the buy license sometimes. I don't know. Check your state, regs guys. I think we're really doing the best we can to make this an equitable distribution of the opportunities. That's kind of always been the point in America. Unlike Europe, where you had the royalty owning everything. Here, it's always been we're all going to be on the same playing field. We don't care if you're rich or poor. You're going to have equal access to opportunities. And yeah, the outfitters, they're charging money and you can pay for it or not pay for it. But it starts the government, the fishing game agencies allocating all these permits and stuff. I think it's pretty fair. Yeah, I would say so. Now, let me add something to this. What about these auction hunt tag things? They'll say like, we're going to sell off a tag and you can hunt for a bull out anywhere in the state from September 1st through October 31st or whatever they do. It's just like the ultimate best off they call it like the governor's tag. Yeah, no, no, call it the governor's tag and it'll auction off and bring in $300,000, $400,000. That's definitely

15:29I can't remember. There was there was the I think it was the New Mexico statewide governor's tag for Bitcoin cheap. And I want to say it was millions like this last year went for millions. And there was multiple bidders at that level. Okay. So obviously, there's high demand for that tag and same thing with like, there's some tags in Utah, same kind of thing there for the deer and elk and like the antelope violent hunt. Same thing. They go for, I don't know, they've been quite for millions, but they've been pretty dang close. Well, they just have to go over a few thousand and I'm not bidding. Yeah, exactly. I'm out. Yeah. But what about that argument? Like, why should we give that one tag to that guy you can spend the most money for it? I thought it was supposed to be equal opportunity for everybody. Yeah. What do you say about that? Well, so for the one tag, like we have the antelope violent tag here in Utah, there's actually two tags that given out for the whole island and the islands right in the middle of the great Salt Lake. There's two tags. One of them goes for the public and it's just a lottery draw. There's one tag. Everyone's name gets put in the hat and there's a lucky winner. And then the other one gets auctions off to the highest bidder and all of that money goes right back into the state to help take care of the deer and help

16:34management into different, I guess, programs that would help the populations of deer. Sure. It helps fund fishing games so that allows your regular license to case, stay lower in price. It's kind of where I look at it. Yeah. So somebody complains to say, well, why did they sell that tag off in that ulcer rich guy? I got the opportunity to shoot any alky wanted, but we don't get that opportunity. Any spent $500,000 or a million dollars. Yeah, that million dollars means that you don't have to not see your regular license go up 20 bucks to tag. Yeah. And it may be paid for bringing reintroducing animals into an area or research on diseases. All that is benefiting wildlife and improving them. You're going to have more animals, healthier herds, whatever. It's not like you're giving that money to a party and Vegas or something. So there's that argument. I don't think anyone would be like doing the exact same thing about it was donating to a charity. You wouldn't be like, really? You gave a million dollars to a charity. Like, come on. Like, and I'm not saying it's exactly comparable to a charity, but still like if a man has enough money to do what he

17:37wants with and he sees fifth that he wants to donate it to this cause, let him do it. Like, I mean, he gets a hunt out of it and you could get that you have the equal chance of doing that by putting in for that tag. I gotta tell you, I get real jealous or at least I used to when I would see one of those governor tag guys with this incredible mule deer sheep or whatever it was, but I realized it's just one is annual and we're reaping the rewards from it monetarily. And as I said, it's probably keeping my overall costs down on my tags because they've got that extra money, whatever. But honestly, the bucks they've been killing on a couple of those governor's tag last couple of years, people have been killing bigger bucks on general season units. I mean, your average hunter with a tag gets the bigger not just average, but there are been bucks killed in the state that are bigger than that bigger than the one who got the biggest. Yeah. So it's not like it's like the biggest and best deer gets killed every automatically gets over the counter people that are killing way bigger deer. Yeah. All right. Well, guys, we want to thank you for weighing in with those thoughts on those ideas.

18:37We can certainly understand them. I mean, I grew up a poor kid in the farms and stuff and had to work my way up like most Americans, you know, you get what you get, you work for it and you get a little more or whatever. And it's just enjoy what you got. And you don't seem like it's a part of our culture anymore to complain about what you don't have rather than celebrate and appreciate what you do. I mean, to be able to go hunting, to be able to forward a rifle, leaving it's about an inexpensive rifle, we've got so many choices and so many products and opportunities that most of the world just doesn't have. Yeah. So I'd like to celebrate what I can do rather than why and about what I can't. Yeah, we can get in a whole other discussion. I mean, there's a whole other rabbit hole we can go down. But I don't know when it became bad to not kill something. So like going home empty handed. Yeah. Because I think so many people like think that they're going to go out and kill a deer every year. You got to realize that like on average, your success rates 30% and that's like generous. That's on a good unit. Yeah. So that's one in three. So like if you and your three buddies

19:40want to use going to kill a deer, it's okay to go home empty handed. Like you're still out there enjoying the woods. But I think so many people are focused on just the kill that they don't actually care about the fact that you're out in the woods enjoying like the creations that are around you being outside of work, getting away from the general populace. You're just out there enjoying it. But so many people are just focused on all I want to do is go out and kill and that's all that matters to me. So I can show off to my friends and family and social media and all that stuff. Yeah. And that human nature, it was like that back in the six down seven years too. And I was getting started hunting. You'd get jealous because well, you know, you're at the big hunter now. You want to get one too. And your buddies all get one and you don't. And you feel low and all the rest of it. But as you mature and you start to appreciate things like look, you've got the opportunity. You had fun in camp. You learned something new that failed stock torture that next time you need to do it differently. And it's all part of the experience of being on to. Yeah. So celebrate the fact that as you said, you're able to go. What are the country? Can you do this kind of stuff in? Choose your favorite rifle, your favorite cartridge, your favorite bullet, your favorite scope,

20:43all the stuff you want to use. Now what somebody tells you you have to use and then go out and do it your way, whether you make it or not, it's kind of up to you. Enjoy the whole thing. This is your life. Make the best of it. I think it comes down to attitude. Yeah. I think that's true. I think that a lot of people just kind of have that attitude wrong because I think like there's been sometimes, you know, you stalking close. I'm a big bow hunter. Stocking close to me, old deer. And then he ducks your own. You send one right over his back. And for like the first like couple minutes, you're just taking yourself. You hate life. I mean, I've heard people throwing bows. I mean, it's awful. And then you get done and you're like, that sucked, but that was also so close because that deer was 30 yards away. Yeah. No idea. I was there until I shot. Wasn't that such a cool experience and then after that, you're like, you know, that was great. Like that was so much fun. Let me tell you about the time I miss you. Yeah. Exactly. And then you tell your friends like, that was so cool. It's not like, oh, like I'm going to forever regret going on that hunt now because I missed a deer. It's like, no, it's going to be it's going to hurt for like probably the rest of the day. Maybe the rest of

21:44the week could be the rest of the season. But at some point, you're going to look back and be like, you know, that hunt was pretty cool. I mean, I was that close to that deer. Yeah. Whether you killed them or not makes for great stories and cam. Exactly. Well, listen, let's change it up a little bit here because it looks like we're getting a whole bunch of comments from people about this video. We get on this 6.5 creed more with the peak steel case. Yeah. Against the 6.5 PRC. What we wanted to see was whether or not this new ammunition allowed that old creed more that puny little worthless can kill anything creed more could measure up to a much more significant and manly curkage. It had some recoil a 6.5 PRC. So we shot the side by side and people are commenting right and left about what we discovered. So let's you see what they're saying. And then we can add a little more if we don't quite get to the heart of it. You were there. You were part of the deal. So behind the camera, this is Richard 44 W. Seems that many are missing the point of peak ammo, including Ron,

22:46same or better velocity out of a much shorter barrel. For those who want a handy rifle and who want to shoot suppressed right now is the best solution available. And you must mean the peak ammo, right? And due to using faster burning powders, there is much less velocity drop as you go down in barrel length than you would get with traditional ammo using slower burning powder with less pressure. I have seen seven backcountry rifles with 18 inch barrels that shoot at seven millimeter remnant magnum velocities. Some even using 16 inch barrels. So you have less weight and less overall length with a suppressor still. And it comes in close to the standard 24 inches or so of a rifle. So he says he's laughing. Oh, what's L.O.A. Laughing all afternoon. Yeah, something. I'm not sure about that jargon. Okay. So what about Richard's point? I would have to agree with him. I think, and I think we mentioned, I think briefly, but maybe it was kind of overshadowed by some of the other

23:48things. The two rifles we tested, the 6.5 PRC was, I believe, a 24 inch barrel on that one. Yes. I think it's a 24 inch barrel. That howa only had a 20 inch barrel. And we are still getting 3000 feet per second. And I think to his point, that's kind of what's really good about these peak cartridges that you don't need a 24 inch barrel to achieve maximum velocity. I would guess that a lot of these maximum velocities are being achieved at 20 or maybe even less. Yeah. Because both with that 6.5. I mean, I think, yes, the factory loading, they said they wanted to get 31 hundred feet per second. We were getting 30, 30 with a 20 inch barrel. So not too much faster. And I've seen a 16 inch 7 back country push a 170 grain bullet 3000 feet per second out of a 16 inch barrel. Whoa. Yeah. That's great. So I mean, you're looking like he said, seven red mag velocities with a 16 inch barrel. Well, I think he's right. And I think the biggest part of the reason that they made this peak ammo was for that because so many younger shooters now want to have a suppressor

24:51on the front. And I think that's a smart move ugly as it is because of saving your hearing. It's a huge deal. Yeah. Big difference. Yeah. And it usually makes rifles shoot a little more accurately because it adds a little more weight out there. That's a great deal. Well, the rest of it. But they also don't want to have a 30 inch barrel if they screw it on the front of a 24 or 26. Yeah. So you've got to cut back. So when you cut back your barrel, of course, you lose velocity. So, hey, why don't we come at it from a different angle, which is the higher pressure in the same cartridge. You can use it in the same rifle. You're shooting your standard stuff in and you've got a reversal rifle. Use your traditional ammo in it and go do what it's always done. But if you suddenly think you need more velocity, use the peak ammo in the same rifle. Bingo. There you go. I think that's a big thing where it looks like this technology is going to go is taking already existing cartridges and converting them to peak. And then you have the option at that point. You can pick a low pressure or a high pressure depending on your needs and what you're actually going to do with it. Well, here's another from this is from Alan Burton. On the same subject, he says,

25:56listen, to present anything useful, you need to use the same bullet in the same rifle preferably with a 24 inch barrel. So I think what he's saying is we should have tested a 24 inch barrel Creedmoor against the 24 inch barrel PRC and both of them shooting the same weight bullet. Yeah. I wrote back to him. I don't remember what I said, but I'll read it now and I'll know. A perfect match would be ideal Alan, but we figured that most shooters could extrapolate and appreciate the differences and the potential. The discovery that a smaller cartridge in a shorter barrel could hang with the much larger cartridge in a longer barrel seems pretty telling to us. So that's kind of what we figured people would figure that out. They would look at the results and go, you know what, they're shooting a shorter barrel. That's not fair, but they still equal that velocity. So that's what tells me what I need to know. If I would have had a 24 inch barrel instead of a shorter one, it would be going faster than the PRC. But I know some people want to see an exact comparison and I get it, but we didn't have it. We didn't have a rifle with the same length

26:59barrel and we didn't have the same bullets and the ammunition that we had on hand, but we thought it was better to get something out there from which you could extrapolate than nothing. Yeah, and then there's tons of different people could say, well, you know, you tested 130's, well, let's make them all 130's. Well, now you test 130's, now you're going to test 150's. And I mean, you can go every direction, but I feel like that we explained and talked about there's different options you can go with. But in this example, you're looking at the actual comparison. The 65 peak is keeping up with the 65 PRC. Yeah. So, okay, but I can appreciate the comments guys. It always helps us think in the future what we're going to do and how to do it. One of them we are going to do pretty soon. Stay tuned is another round nose bullet versus the spire point because a lot of people said our last one, we didn't have our velocities exactly the same between the two and we should use a 180 grain instead of a 150 grain. I don't know where that makes any difference, but we're going to do that because we have some 180 grain round nose bullets and some 150 spire points and they're both the same interlock bullet from Hornady and

28:04they're both going to be shot out of about 30 out six or three or eight, whatever we decide to use. Yeah, but yeah, we'll do that. All right. Let's see what Justin Schmidt, 91 80, has to say. Oh, this is about the 65 PRC peak and the PR or the 65 Creedmore peak and the PRC and he says both are garbage and they won't even compare to the 264 wind mag. The 65 PRC is a watered down to 64 wind mag with no belt. The 65 crap more is of a rebranded 65 by 55 sweet and the 7 PRC is a watered down seven ram mag and they're all useless. What do you think partner? You know, we're going to keep drawing comparisons, but here's the comparison I'm going to make. If you had two friends and one person says I'm going to drive my Ford F-150 to work, but you over here with your Toyota Tundra says the F-150 is useless. Yeah, well, I mean, I would agree maybe there's going to be some differences.

29:10Toyota is known to be more reliable. Oh, the F-150, it's the, you know, built in America, whatever. There still gets you to work. Like, I don't know why we need to say it and say one of them is horrible and one of them is, now if someone wanted to say, you know what, I'm going to tow a boat with my Toyota Prius. I would say, you know what, maybe you might want to go up to an F-150 and that's some of the cases where it's like, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to use a 22 long rifle to go moose hunting. Maybe you shouldn't do that one. But other than that, like it, as long as it gets you from point A to point B, that's all that matters. And if you want to draw the conclusion and say that one thing's crap and one thing's good, but when you look at the actual numbers and they're within a couple hundred feet per second and energy pounds and drops, it all really just doesn't matter. And it's just whatever your opinion is and whatever you go up, grow up with, just you didn't be happy. Yeah, it's, I always get a little bit upset when I see you guys calling something garbage and useless. Obviously, it's not garbage and useless if people have been using it. For years and

30:11years, taking their game, we've talked about it a billion times. How many 6.5 creed more? Even if we don't love it, guys are using it and every year they get their deer, they get their elk even. I've got a buddy whose wife got a moose with it and plenty of other people have done the same. And then he mentions this 6.5 55-sweed, which shoots the same bullet a hundred feet per second slower on average than the creed more. And everybody celebrates the old 55-sweed. You know, and the funny thing is a lot of people accuse you of like selling out to companies and you know, pushing their thing like that. What's your favorite garbage? Element Outdoors. Technical clothing built for the hunt, the water, and everywhere life takes you outdoors. Every piece is loaded with features that work as hard as you do. Insect shield technology to keep bugs off your back and polygene odor control to keep you fresh from sunrise to sundown. Element Outdoors has the gear to keep you comfortable and ready for whatever the day brings. Built for the elements designed for adventure, Element Outdoors is geared

31:11for more. Explore the full lineup and find your next favorite piece at elementoutdoors.com. That's elementoutdoors.com. Technical clothing for hunting, fishing, and everyday adventure. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen, snacks, a stapler, the new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pasquies, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See PayPal.com slash protection terms. This episode is brought to you by Born in Roma fragrances by Valentino Beauty, the iconic fragrance duo. Donna Born in Roma, Ode to Parfum is a feminine fragrance featuring juicy black current, central jasmine, woody cashmurren, and warm vanilla. It's masculine counterpart, Womow Born in Roma, Ode to Valet, has notes of fresh violet leaf, aromatic sage, green vetiver,

32:17spicy ginger, and mineral salt. Shop at macy's.com. You've been searching for the right foundation since forever, but now finally, you can find your match with Sephora. With so many options from the best brands, you can pick the shade, coverage, and finish that's just right for you. And don't worry, it's easy to find your match, with help from our expert beauty advisors and shade matching tools. Plus free samples to take home and try. Visit Sephora in store, and online to find your match. I don't really have one. I mean, I love a lot of them, but it's certainly not a six, five creed more than ever. But you will preach the 757. Yeah. So I can ask you why don't you shoot the 708? It shoots 100 feet per second within 100 feet per second. Same for, well, it's because it's your personal preference. That's what you want to shoot. And that's what you decide. I have seven. But I'm not going to be like, you have to shoot the 78 run. It's superior in every way. Shoot what you want. You still have killed plenty of deer

33:20and anilope and everything. Imagine that. Imagine that. I think it's human nature. Some people just, they get offended when you don't think their particular choices in cars, motorcycles, girls, cartridges, rifles. If you don't pick what they pick, yours is garbage, theirs is the best. I get it. You like your stuff. That's okay. All right. Now here's somebody with a different attitude, I think. This is sunny K6. He says, the benefits, less recoil, less powder, all in a short action. What's not to like? Apparently we work for the companies though. Yeah. We're not going to make any money off of that. He is definitely being paid by big bullet companies. You think so? Just because of that comment. He is all too positive. Even though if we were to say the same thing, we would also get marked for that. Even though we actually agree with you know, God, this isn't funny. What? This guy's name is Heta Lilama. And he says, well, I am going

34:22to trash this ammo so that I feel better about my old rifle. I'm also going to disparage it because it bothers me when others have better things than I do. Next, I'm going to lie about all the animals I've taken with my trusty 308 slash 270. Reality is the only, no, reality is that the only thing I've taken in the past decade have been cans of bud light. Bud light, that's always shot or bud light. So, he says, I'm, excuse me, I'm leaving now to go criticize some welding and concrete videos. Yeah, we're not the only ones getting hate comments. There's some welder out there that just makes the wrong looking weld and there's a bunch of people just seriously typing at. How you said I had your temp up higher. Yeah, this is social media. People are anonymous and they can make all these comments and feel better about themselves. And a lot of times there's truth behind it. Some guy will write in and say I'm doing this wrong or that wrong and then they're right. Sometimes I do stuff wrong, which is why we always welcome

35:24criticisms. Yes. Especially if they're helpful criticisms like Ron, you might not know it, but what you're doing with that bolt manipulation is absolutely not the best way to do it. I'm sure you've been able to get your game over the years, but if you try this technique, it works so much faster and then maybe we'll learn something. I like to share that kind of information. It's like the one when we're shooting our rifles for accuracy, some people will say you're doing it all wrong. You should hold down on top of the scope. So and so on his video did that. So we tried that. We try all the things you guys suggest and we have found some pretty good results with some of those things. So part of the learning experience, I think that's a big part of social media in general, is just being like of actually available to receiving criticism because some people are doing it out of spite and out of anger. And some people maybe actually want you to learn something to know maybe what you're doing is wrong. And they might be in the wrong compared to you, but still the you being the person to look at that and be like, you know, is that just them talking at me or should I actually test that or do maybe do some more research behind that? Yeah. See if there's

36:26actually any merit behind it because you might be in the wrong. You're not always right. Yeah. Sometimes you are wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And that one kind of takes me back to that 308 round nose versus spider point we did shot the round nose bullet and the spider points. We tried to make everything even as we could. Yeah. Ended up even though we made the same load for some reason the round nose bullet shot about 88 feet per second more slowly than a spider point, which resulted in a little more drop than we would have normally gotten. But still there was so much difference between it. And when we shot these groups, you could obviously see your getting about what was seven inches more drop or something at three yards. And enough to make this more windriff. Yeah. A lot more double the wind deflection guys double. And a lot of people wrote in saying, oh, it doesn't matter. It doesn't count. You didn't prove a dang thing because you didn't have them going exactly the same speed. And so I mean, what are you going to do? The idea is we're doing our best to show you things that really happen so that you can see them and say, hmm, I wonder why

37:28that did happen. Is it like Ron and Griffin and Landon said, or is there something they missed? And a lot of people were right in and say you didn't do this right. You didn't do that right. And that helps all of us to figure things out for ourselves. Yeah. But I'll always, I always say, if you don't believe it, try it yourself. Yeah. And there's nobody says you can't go pick up some 180 grain round nose bullets and shoot them and see how they perform compared. And you'll probably have a different result than us. And that's okay. But not much. Because it's physics guys. It's just played physics. This is a long one. I think I remember this one. Some guy named Jason Minor Road in. He said, hmm, think this isn't the same topic. It's not ego. It's ethics and numbers. And the numbers say that they have a higher loss rate of game in the average center. Oh, he's talking about the 65th Creed more. He says they have a higher loss rate of game in the average hunter or for the average hunter. I say average because that is the bulk of the hunting world. The 6.5 is not forgiving

38:30with a bullet that explodes on the ribs and legs, where will they deflect off the shoulder bones at angles a heavier round would not. We all know a guy who hunts with a 243 same principle. But we also know that's not a true big game round. It's good close range 200 yards, but not good on heavy bone animals that that distance due to deflection. Same, same. I'm not sure what same, same means. But apparently he thinks the 6.5 is it explodes on the ribs and legs. And it's no good a higher rate of loss of game on average. So before you weigh in on that, I'm going to I'm going to read right. I wrote back to him because I will often read some of these. And for some reason they fire me up and I spend some time to write them back. I said, yeah, Jason, but where do we find those numbers? Is there a reporting station for hit and lost animals that catalogs which rifle, which cartridge, which bullet distance to the target, the bullet placement, all that stuff? If not, are we just going by hearsay? Because I most often hear that the 6.5 by 55

39:34sweet is a wonderfully effective hunting cartridge more than capable of taking deer, caribou, moose, even brown bears. Yet it throws the same bullets as this 6.5 creed more you hate. But on average, they're going 100 feet per second more slowly in the factory ammunition. Or could it be that too many new hunters are bragging hunters with their fancy 6.5 creed more long range rifles are driving us nuts with their bragging and they can't be backed up with their shooting? Or do too many 6.5 creed shooters take risky shots at full of distances? Honestly, I don't know all the answers, but it sounds unlikely that a cartridge that produces ballistics matching or bettering a venerable revered older cartridge like the sweet could be as bad as some say. So your argument that 6.5 bullets are too light could be valid in some cases. Yet over the last century, many professional hunters have declared the 220 swift as the surest killer of big game.

40:34Better than the 30-odd sex, or even the 8 by 57 miles or. And various 24 and 25 calibers like Roy Weatherbeast 257 Weatherly Magnum, those have built reputations for deadly, reliable performance on elk and moose and grizzlies and most African gaming, including buffalo in a few cases. So as many point out, exploding bullets failing on game, well, they're more the product of the bullet construction than the cartridge that launches it. That said, if all else is equal, the bullet materials and the construction, the impact velocity, the target size and position of the animal and the bullet placement, if all of those are equal, you know, a larger diameter, heavier bullet will land with more energy and it should break more bones. But the job for each hunter is to determine where to draw the line. And more than 130 years of field performance from the 6.555 suite offers pretty solid evidence for any cartridge that pushes a 26 caliber to 30 caliber bullet around 2700 to maybe even as low as 2500 feet per second or faster, they seem to all work.

41:38Historically, so I just don't see how someone like Jason can say we all know that there's a higher loss of game on average for the average hunter because it's who gets that data? Who determines that? I think a couple thoughts. I think a big part that I think you're spot on with a lot of those things. I think a big part of it is the fact that the 6.5 Creed moor is one of the top selling ammo right now. So there's a lot of people shooting the 6.5 Creed moor, which means there's a lot of people shooting 6.5 Creed moor at the air, which also is going to return with a lot more wounded animals because that's the one of the top being that I got to just I think it just in general is going to get overblown because it's just so popular. I also want to know if he's talking about bullets exploding and deflecting whatever, maybe consider getting a better bullet. You think anybody should pay attention to the bullet? I think it's so funny in the industry is like as being behind kind of like in the background behind the YouTube analytics and stuff. We'll put out a video talking about cartridge versus cartridge, you know, 6.5 Creed moor versus 6.5 PRC and people will

42:42argue all day long about which cartridge is better. But we'll put out a video talking about which bullet is better, you know, a bonded bullet versus a cup and core and no one will watch that video and people will kind of just be like, yeah, bullets don't matter. The cartridge war. Well, that's the thing that's between you and the animal is the bullet that you're firing at them. So you'd think you'd want that to be your most for sure element. But yet people don't seem to care as much about the bullets. It's all about what is driving it and it's the same if we're going to make a comparison. Oh, yeah, my Ford F150. It doesn't matter though if it has a little two-bang or two cylinder. Yes, engine. That's that's fine. I don't really care what the actual motor is in it. I just care about the body. Well, you know, if you're going to have a truck, you might have put a V8 in it and make sure that it's actually going to be able to pull. I just think a lot of those people get overblown on the cartridge and they focus on it too much and it does play a big part. But the bullet is the connecting factor. So put a little more thought into that. Yeah, the cartridge that everybody gets so crazy about sometimes just nothing but a different shape.

43:42You once a little fatter, once a little longer, once a little shorter bubble, you get all done with that stuff from this to this. Yeah, you end up looking at your burning 55 grains of powder in both of them and you're pushing the same weight bullet and the same diameter and everything else. They're the same. It's just a different shape of the launching pad, essentially. But what you were just saying about not paying attention to the bullet, I've got to go get my computer because I just saw something come in about some guides talking about which cartridges weren't going to work. This is a good one. Yeah, hang in there. Stay tuned. All right, get this. This one of our viewers sent me this. Now you need to watch this video because you're using the wrong rifle. The one you used when you shot your stags in Scotland is just absolutely the wrong thing. It can't work. It's a horrible cartridge. It's just worthless. All the usual stuff. It definitely didn't work. You definitely did not kill three stags. Yeah. And two shots, two stags, not good enough. Yeah. But I mean, he had some good recommendations. He prefers a 270 wind shester and a few others

44:43and nothing wrong. I agree. I agree. But it doesn't mean what I was using wasn't going to work. Obviously it worked. But everybody has their old opinions and I respect that. But then he sent me a video where they interviewed a couple of professional guides for Red Stag hunting over in Scotland, Ireland, places like that. And of course they were opinionated. That's why they quoted them and stuff. But they wanted to ask them, you know, what's the best cartridge running Red Stags? And of course they had some ideas. And this is part of what one of those guides said. He says, listen, what I like about the bigger calibers say 270 wind shester and 30 at six is when things go slightly wrong, you always get that exit hole. And you will always have a trail to follow with the 243 wind shester. Everything stays in the animal. And you don't get that exit that you need. If the animal is gone, even 50 hours into forestry, you need a trail to follow for either you or your dog. Now, I agree with most of that. You do need it. I mean, I like an exit wound, blood trail,

45:46and all the rest. And certainly the 270 and the 30 out six are going to be hitting harder than the 243. But he doesn't say a thing about the bullets. And I read this so often when you read a report from guide so and so, who's the champion of this or that animal and best hunter ever and blah, blah, blah. And he's got some strong preferences about the cartridge. And he never mentions the bullets that he's using. And most of us know if you use the wrong bullet on the right cartridge, you might as well use the right bullet on the wrong cartridge. It'll probably outperform it. Yeah. So just one of those things that we, as you said, you don't think about the important part, which is the bullet. Yeah. And then to say that a 270 bullet, say 130 green 270 bullet is going to be reliable and penetrate through and kill them dead or in a wedge. And the 65 with 140 green bullet going the same velocity isn't just because it's 26 caliber instead of 27. Yeah. I mean, you are going to, if it's a heavier bullet, it's going to carry more energy, which is more mass going to the animal blah, blah. It does make sense in the world of physics. But if he's talking about a 243 that's just hitting

46:52the deer and blowing up, well, maybe that's because you're shooting a varmant bullet or target bullet. If you tried shooting a monomedal or a bonded bullet, it's probably going to go all the way through or stop on the offside shoulder, just like you want it to. Yeah. Now, another little thing he hinted at here is something else people often say, you've got to have a bullet that stops in the animal to dump all of its energy. That's what kills. They don't like to pass through thing because you wasted your enemy on energy on the hillside. And then he's saying a 240, three-segmental good because it stays in the animal. See, it is anything about the knockdown energy staying in the animal to kill it faster and better. Yeah. You could say, well, your 270 may have had more energy, but it wasted it on the hillside by shooting through all over the map, guys. But once again, arguing these things, discussing it without having to call anybody any final names, is a great way to help all of us understand. That's an interesting point. Maybe I should figure that in. Yeah, like, what if I have a lighter bullet, but it does penetrate deeper, teresmore tissue gets all the way

47:55through the animal leaves the blood trail. Is that an advantage over to the heavier bullet? That was the wrong construction that did stay inside the animal, but didn't tear enough tissue for whatever reason. And there's absolutely solid reasons for some bullets being made this way and some being made other ways. And there's no absolute ideal. If there were, we wouldn't have 50 different choices. Yeah. So the hard part is is that if someone were to walk up to me and ask, what I'm going to buy an elk rifle, what Calibur and cartridge should I get it in? My first thing is not going to be till you to buy a 65 tree more. I'm going to probably recommend a seven-ring mag 30-out six, 300-hundred to win mag just because kind of like these guys, I would rather err on the side of caution than having too much. But that's only because most people are not going to take that effort to be try shooting a model-metal bullet because a 65-crete-more shooting 120-gray model-metal bullet is going to do everything that that seven mag would do. But it's just our people going to put the time and effort into actually putting that rifle and bullet build together and getting it

48:56shoot actively and practice with it. Yeah. I mean, we could go around and around and all day with this stuff and people can write in and tell us why we're full of it again. But they think- They probably will. But definitely concentrating on that bullet. And remembering that, yeah, it's a larger caliber, but that doesn't mean it's a heavier bullet. It doesn't mean it's going as fast necessarily. It doesn't mean it's carrying as much energy. And then the round nose versus the BC's spire point kind of efficiency bullet. A lot of people refuse to understand that or appreciate it too because it can make a huge difference. A lot of these little six-fives because of the right bullet and all can end up putting more energy into the animal at 500 yards than the much larger cartridges and bullets. Because of this aerodynamic efficiency, it's like race cars versus Mac trucks. You know, you can set them off at the same engines, going to the same velocity, it turn everything off. Which one's going to coast farther? Yeah. And that doesn't drag in the air as much. Great job. So all kinds of things to think about guys. And it's always fun to discuss this stuff

50:00without having to call anybody in the hams. You know, but he's absolutely an idiot and wrong. Yeah, a little- quite a few people have kind of the wrong concepts about it all. You know, there's the old concept of your bullet rises when it leaves the barrel. You know, it doesn't. Your barrel is just tipped up so you can let the natural drop from gravity put the bullet on the target. But that's a concept that most of us have to learn. I think you're wrong. And I'm going to call you some bad names. Anyway, we can discuss this thing forever. And you know, well, guys, I don't mind repeating and discussing what we're going to over again. If you still have questions, if you're puzzled by it, because when I was younger, hearing some of this stuff, I just went, what? That doesn't make any sense. You shoot your bullet and you drop it then at the same kind of a bullet at the very same instant. And the drop bullet's going to hit the ground at the same time. The bullet going 3,000 feet per second hits the ground. Does that sound right to you? It sounds weird, but I know what you're talking about. And it's true. Yeah. It's true. When you study it and go, wait a minute, I guess this is right. Because gravity is pulling both of those objects at the same time at the same rate.

51:04One just happens to have another speed going in a horizontal direction, but it's going to be pulled at the same 32 feet per second per second. So yeah, fun stuff like that. It's great to learn, but you've got to sometimes wrap your brain around it with a few discussion sessions with people to get it all figured out, but it's all educational and it's all fun. And I think it all helps become better hunters. So study things, understand things, discuss things. Don't just lock yourself into one preconceived notion. It's stick to it by Gali. Come hell or high water. Because sometimes you're going to find out you're going to crush yourself down the road. So, Hanna Arson, Shoe Strait, we'll see y'all next time. The fall hunting season is here. Make sure you're ready with the new reveal 4.0. The 4.0 cameras are truly unmatched. Our engineers cracked the code on battery life

52:07and doubled the runtime, making it the longest lasting cellular camera on the market. Combine that with razor sharp image quality. The reveal 4.0 is the best cell camera on the market. Don't settle this fall. Check out the all new lineup at tacktocam.com. This episode is brought to you by Born in Roma fragrances by Valentino Beauty, the iconic fragrance duo. Donna Born in Roma Odeparfum is a feminine fragrance featuring juicy black current central jasmine, woody cashmurin, and warm vanilla. Its masculine counterpart, Wilmo Born in Roma Ode Toilet, has notes of fresh violet leaf, aromatic sage, green vetiver, spicy ginger, and mineral salt. Shop at macy's.com.