Death row inmate in 'critical condition'

0:00Hello to you, I'm Sean Lay in the BBC World Service Studios in London and this is News Out, coming up here in the next half hour. Some well-coordinated animated elephants from Disney's Jungle Book, where you can hear how their real world equivalents use our rumbles to communicate with one another. Of course, this hour the Cuban Americans with an eye on investment opportunities in the event of a change of government in Havana after 67 years. But first we begin in Tennessee, where Christopher Pike, a convicted murderer, waited 30 years to die. On Wednesday evening at the River Bend Maximum Security Institution in the American State of Tennessee, Miss Pike was stretched out on a gurney. Chemicals were administered by staff from the Tennessee Department of Correction. They say correctly, not once, but twice.

1:02The lethal injection failed to be lethal. Seven representatives of the media were allowed to witness the process. Will Puckett and Anker and Senior Reporter with WVLTTV gave News Out a detailed and I should warn you graphic description of what each scene and heard. I saw truly an execution that did not go the way it was planned. For, let me outline this for you a little bit. I was, this is my first execution I have ever viewed in my career. Everyone else in there, the six other witnesses, had viewed multiple executions. Obviously, this one started out much different than many other executions because of the six district court of appeals in a two to one decision, stay the execution just about one hour before it was expected to begin. Then they appealed it to the United States Supreme Court in a five to three decision at the Supreme Court. That stay was overruled and things got underway. I'm going to briefly try and attempt to, as best I can, walk you through how long this

2:07is supposed to take. And let me tell you, the six people told me that in its entirety, this process should take roughly 30 minutes, 10 minutes from the time the media witnesses get inside the viewing room to when the curtains open and then 20 minutes from the time they begin to seemingly start injecting Penta Barbatol, the single drug that the state of Tennessee uses in its lethal injection protocol to when they announced her time of death. We were moved in, this is all central time, so Nashville time. We were moved into the viewing chamber at 641 PM. The curtain didn't open for the first time until 727. At that stage, the other six media witnesses with me were saying, this is extremely rare. This should have gotten going about 20 minutes ago. It's only, it's been much longer than 10. This is out of the ordinary. The curtain opened at 727. Christa Gilpike read a pretty lengthy last statement. In summary, it said, I'm going to leave this world the way I've spent most of my life

3:08in love. She added, I'm good now. I'm at peace. I'm ready to be free. I'm going to celebrate my freedom. This is a good day. At 733, she said, the vein in my arm feels like it's about to bust. She was talking to her spiritual advisor. At 734, she said, one spot is really throbbing. It wasn't until 746 that they dropped the curtain the first time. Three minutes later, they lifted the curtain up. That first time that they dropped the curtain should have been the end of it, but she was very clearly alive. When they opened up that curtain at 749 for a second time, that's when you were able to hear that deep snoring sound. Her body was moving as if she was breathing regularly. It was pretty rhythmic. At no point for the most part did it seem like she was in pain, but that snoring was incredibly noticeable. From 751 to 756, her body movements began to become much more clear.

4:13You could see that writhing as you could imagine it would look like somebody who was taking their last breaths of life. But the snoring continued two minutes later at 756. Now I want to note at 80106, central time, a rock is placed. Now the Tennessee Department of Correction does not let us know what that rock signifies. But for many people who have viewed executions in the state of Tennessee, that rock is a symbol that they have stopped applying pen to barba tall. That rock was placed for a second time at 80106 PM, central time at 805, Kristigiel Pikes body, gasps for air, very audibly lifts up and goes back down her mouth open. You can hear a gasp for air. That's when the curtain closed for a second time and a final time. I'll be honest with you, I'm at a loss for words, still trying to find how to balance this between people who thought that this was the right course of action. But others who say this is the issue with capital executions in the United States of America

5:14and it played out in real life last night in the state of Tennessee. That was Will Puckett from WVLTTV. Well in the last couple of hours, Kristigiel Pikes legal team have confirmed their client is still alive, but remains in a critical condition. She's receiving medical treatment. The lawyers say no one knows what happened to Kristigiel Pikes between 825 Wednesday evening when the curtain was closed on the observers at 850 when an ambulance arrived. As a result of the failure to execute Kristigiel Pikes, Tennessee's Republican governor Bill Lee made this declaration. Carrying out a lawfully imposed sentence is among the state's most important responsibilities and most serious responsibilities. And the people of Tennessee have determined their capital punishment as the appropriate sentence for the most heinous of crimes. The people of Tennessee expect that those sentences will be carried out in a manner that's not only legal and constitutional but effective and that didn't happen.

6:24I'm highly disappointed along with Tennesseans about what happened last night. I immediately took action to call for a thorough and comprehensive and third party review and investigation into the protocol. That investigation will be thorough and it's going to take time. And therefore, the last scheduled execution for this year will not take place. That's Governor Bill Lee. At the last scheduled execution is one of a different prisoner, which is due to state place, was due to state place in December. Well, I've been talking to Professor Deborah Deano. She's based at Fordham Law School in New York City where she's an expert on the use of lethal injection for the execution of prisoners. And I asked Professor Deano how common it is for the procedure to go wrong. Unfortunately, it's become very common. We've had lethal injection in this country since 1982 and we've always experienced botched lethal injection executions.

7:26It's been harder to measure. But today, the bot rate is probably from one third to one half as far as we can tell. That seems very problematic. Yeah, this does seem an extraordinary high proportion. Now, what is the problem with the drug? What's the context here? Yeah, the context has really arranged a problem. So because there's so much secrecy as we could see with Christophe Pike, we don't really don't know what quite what happened and the curtain was drawn, et cetera. But basically, every death penalty state does something a little bit different. It's just not one drug that they're using. There is a list of potential drugs. Oftentimes we don't know exactly what the drug is. We do in Christophe Pike's case, but oftentimes we don't. But it's not just the drug. It's who's performing the execution. Executioners are typically poorly trained. We know that the same doctor performing Christophe Pike's execution was the doctor who performed Tony Kruth's execution in Tennessee just a few months ago, and that was botched.

8:28So you could see the greater context of not having many people to rely on. The people you do rely on for the execution procedure typically have a problem or a challenge doing what they're doing in addition to a culture of ignorance. I should have of course say that we don't know whether the person who administered the lethal injection in the two cases earlier in the year and the one on Wednesday, in any way, got it wrong. They may have done their job perfectly properly. They may have been some other failure, but doubtless, that will be for the investigation to establish. You mentioned the involvement of medics. This is according to the Department of Correction, its responsibility. It says it followed every step of the state's established execution protocol. Is there any kind of clarity, therefore, in what the areas are where this tends to go wrong? If there is a protocol, where is it falling short? It's hard when people use the term protocols, hard to know what they're talking about.

9:29I've seen lethal injection protocols. A lot of them are very short. They'll be half a page. There's not like we're getting a lot of detail on what's going on in these kinds of cases. Number one, and number two, you know, with the governor not being there, and actually witnessing what was going on, it's a challenge determining whether, in fact, everything was followed the way it should be. Number three, there may have been other challenges apart from what the executioners were doing. We do know that Christophe Pike had medical challenges, that she has very small veins, so that may have been a reason that there were problems and challenges in that sense. You mentioned medical involvement. Is there a debate in the medical profession about the ethics of taking part in executions? There is a debate in the medical profession about taking part in executions. I mean, on the one hand, doctors are supposed to follow the Hippocratic oath and take care of people.

10:30They're supposed to heal us, not kill us. On the other hand, you do have a medical profession that's typically pro-death penalty. If you take a poll of doctors, most of them are going to be pro-death penalty. You may have individuals who engage in lethal injections for that reason alone. We do know that there have been cases of physicians getting involved in lethal injections when the injections are problematic. In other words, every prison has physicians because they're taking care of inmates in other ways. They have been drawn into the process when there's been chaos or something horribly going wrong. The US Supreme Court established the legality of judicial execution by states of convicted prisoners. Has it ever considered whether the method of execution might amount to cruel and unusual punishment, which is prohibited under the US Constitution? Yes, it is, but it's done that very late. It was only in 2008, for the first time that the United States Supreme Court ever evaluated

11:34under the Eighth Amendment any execution method. There have been many, many challenges. We have electrocution, firing squad, nitrogen, hypoxia, hanging. We have six method of execution in this country. All of them have problems. What the Supreme Court did in 2008 is evaluate the standard original three drug protocol. Essentially, Robert Stamp that said that that was ready to go. It's just ironically a year or two later that this country started to experience drugs shortages, particularly the very first drug used in lethal injection executions, after which point there's been other chaos with finding a proper drug. Now the court has come around and look at two additional cases involving lethal injection executions and has upheld both. But beyond that, there have been extraordinary limitations and what the court has been able to do or at least attempted to do. As Professor Debra Deno talking to NewsHour here on the BBC World Service.

12:55Coming up here on News Amor on the fly, Dubai flight which had a close call Wednesday will hear from a man who was on board with his family. You understand very, very quickly that literally there is nothing that you can do at this point of time. So the only thing that you can do is try to be cool, try to be in your zone, like you know, in slang and reflect it to your kids, just tell them, yeah, everything gonna be alright. Our other headlines, the family of an American woman, fatally shot by an immigration enforcement agent in January, soothes the Trump administration over her death. Eretraeus has its breaking diplomatic ties with neighboring Ethiopia after Ethiopia expelled 10 Eretraean diplomats and said it would close its embassy in the country. And almost 2,000 people have been arrested in France following student protests in a number of cities. I'm Sean Lay, thank you for your company, you're listening to NewsHour.

14:03In Florida, Cuban Americans have begun planning for the role they could play in a post-communist Cuba. They've dreamed of the scenario for more than 60 years, more or less since the revolution which brought the late Fidel Castro to power in 1959. Now they hope the months long fuel blockade and power blackouts of 20 hours at a time will begin to loosen the Cuban Communist Party's grip on power and allow what US President Donald Trump called last week, fundamental change to take place. As Will Grant now reports, a new organisation has been founded in Miami to plan for investment on the island the day after, as they put it, the regime falls. A delavish home of one of Miami's top plastic surgeons, some of the wealthiest Cuban American families in Florida gather to thrash out their vision of Cuba's future. Ramen hand and Rolex is on wrists, it's the fourth meeting of the newly created Cuban American National Chamber of Commerce.

15:04The group's president is 82-year-old real estate developer Juan Omar Sigston. The intention of this group is to gather on the one roof the most prominent Cuban American entrepreneurs in Miami. The guests are convinced at the moment of regime change that they've spent almost seven decades hoping, praying and indeed pushing for is nigh. After countless false daunes, this time, says Mr. Sigston, is different. I've been here in Miami for about an hour or 62 or 64 years. This is the first time that Michael Rue, the Cuban American, is doing what you have been done 20 or 30 years ago. It's an absolutely failed state. From hearing those words from President Trump at the UN General Assembly, the Cuban delegations stood up in unison and left the chamber. As they walked out, he had a final message for them. Communism will never be coming to America, but freedom will be coming to Cuba.

16:04Although President Trump has repeatedly said Cuba is next after Iran, it's far from clear what the change might be. There has been reporting that essentially the US government asked Cuban government privatize your oil company under US hands, convince your president to step down and free political prisoners and then we can play ball. The Cubans have rejected that. In the University of Miami's leafy campus, I caught out with Mike Busdemande, an associate history professor there. I don't understand how someone like Marco Rubio sells that kind of interim arrangement with the very government that he and the community has from has imposed for so long. I don't see how they sell that in South Florida. I simply will have actions to avoid the aggressions and inequalities. The Cuban government recently passed 176 economic liberalization measures into law. President Miguel de S. Cannell told the Cuban Congress they were to advance the defense of socialism, to his critics though they look like little more than full-blown capitalism. They lift the cap on the number of workers in a private business and permit ownership

17:06of multiple enterprises at once, including by Cuban Americans in Florida. Agriculture. What needs to be done with agriculture? There's a number of people here tonight that have volunteered already. But Miami real estate developer Juan Omar Sigsdor says they offer no guarantees to any potential investors in his homeland. Michael Rubio knows that these group of people are the ones that cannot go back and invest in Cuba unless that regime is out of power. On one of my trips to Cuba earlier this year, the tour guide took me around the empty streets of Havana in his car to show the total collapse of the tourism industry amid the fuel embargo. There's since been an exodus of international hotel companies and financial entities like Visa and Mastercard. Miami's ambitious plans aside, Cubans will endure more acute shortages in food, water, fuel and medicines. Most just hope their days get a little easier sometime soon.

18:09That was Will Grant reporting from Miami, Florida. Low frequency rumbles emitted by elephants keep them together, according to a team of Kenyan and American researchers. They strengthen social bonds and help the animals coordinate group movement. Now that apparently is a rumble of greething. And I earlier greet his Joyce Poole, scientific director of elephant voices, which does what it says on the tin and is an advocate for elephants. So I asked Joyce first of all what these rumbles are trying to say. We've been studying elephant communication for, well, since the 1980s and the individual rumbles are easy to measure. And we've been able to show that there are many different kinds of rumbles, greeting rumbles, let's go rumbles. Rumbles that are given to calves to, you know,

19:13soothe them. But 60% of the rumbles that elephants give overlap with other callers. And it's a bit like the cocktail party problem. So these, you know, when it's just like people talking on top of one another. And those have been very difficult to analyze. So what we've been able to show using machine learning is that these overlapping calls, given in particular contacts, retain the information about the behavior they are involved in. I mean, it has always been very impressive. Hasn't it watching groups of elephants move together, apparently seamlessly? I mean, hence, I guess why Disney, when they were animation in the jungle book, we played a little bit of it earlier, chose to have the elephants as sort of kind of like a platoon of soldiers being marched around because in the sense it captures that, that a extraordinary instinct they have for cooperation. Yeah. And they, they give these,

20:13what we call, let's go rumbles. And then they have this, what we call cadence rumbles, which is like this sing song back and forth between the elephants. And we believe, and these are often overlapping calls. And we believe that that's when they're negotiating a plan of action together. And what we found in this study is that in those calls, and in some of the other, the other types of rumbles, as the chorus proceeds, the elephants, the voices of the elephants become acoustically more progressively more similar to one another. So it's a bit like, you know, even humans, when your close friends with someone, you start to talk, your voices become more similar to each other. Now, there is, I think I'm right in saying that you and your fellow researchers hope that there could be a way of utilizing this knowledge in conservation. Can you explain that? Yeah. Well, I mean, if we're able to, to, you know, detect exactly what the different contexts are,

21:20we could use, for instance, autonomous recording, recording elements, and not only be able to say count or estimate the number of elephants, but, but, but actually be able to say what they're, what they're doing. And, and how their behavior might differ, differ from population to population. Right. So a good, a practical use. And it's fair to say, isn't it, that these particular elephants under attention, human observation study for a long time. Yeah. This, yeah, these elephants have been studied since 1972. And so the entire population is, is known individually, studied by the Amber Celly Elephant Research Project. And Elephant Voices has also been involved in that project, me since 1975. But our communication project focused on the elephants that made up the key, the key source of data for this study, the E.B.

22:25family led by the famous Matriarch Echo. And that is Joyce Paul, a scientific director of Elephant Voices. And if you take a look at the website, Elephantvoices.org, you can play that greeting rumble yourself. And also there's quite an impressive collection of sounds and images from that family of elephants. Fascinating stuff. Welcome back to NewsHour. Ukraine's president, Vladimir Zelensky, has reacted with fury after a Russian drone struck another school this time in Western Kiev just before 9 as the school day began. Pupils and teachers were inside the air-air shelter. No injuries were reported. President Zelensky used an explosive to refer to Russia, saying they continue to attack the very life of our country. This week we've been receiving audio diaries from school teacher Lisa Ticacenko.

23:29She lives and works in the seaside town of Zadokha near Odessa. Last night she centers this recording. Today we finally had a good day unlike some other schools in Ukraine because just over the past two-week Russian strikes have damaged two universities and dozens of schools. So our good day wasn't about covering extra material in the class or everyone getting high grades or the kids just being in a great mood. We are at the point where a good day simply means that there were no air alerts. It means we could actually focus entirely on the learning process and just experience a normal school routine. And because it was come today it gave me a lot of time to think. It made me think that for Ukrainian kids school isn't just an academic institution. It's the absolute center of the social universe. It's where they leave, where they connect and the war has completely fractured this space. This kind of social deprivation has a huge impact on the education because learning isn't

24:35just about memorizing facts. It's a shared experience. And what I see is that a lot of children in my school lost their friends who fled the way. In some way the lost sense of belonging. And their motivation drops that their anxiety spikes in their energy which they need to persist in information is instead spent on grieving the loss of their normal social world and also on constant adaptation and danger. But there is another side to this. I see that they find new friends among those who stayed. They form new groups and talk to people which they didn't notice when it was more of them. They seek for communication, connection. Also the initiatives like Svetlospool, the online charity where I also work have become real support for the students. It gives our kids a chance to communicate with peers from all over Ukraine and abroad. And to interact with amazing volunteers. And it creates a brand new type of social interaction because the missiles may destroy the physical walls of our schools and university. And the war

25:37might steal their childhood friends. But for kids in my school and for kids in other schools in Ukraine, showing up for class isn't just about studying anymore. It's their way of holding on. They are trying to preserve whatever is left of a normal childhood. And they prove that war can disrupt their lives. But it cannot force them to let go of who they are. Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says the co-pilot responsible for the attack on border plane bound for Israel had undergone Islamist radical indoctrination. He said that it is too

26:42early to say whether Iran is involved. President Trump on the other hand has said it, quote, could have been. The suspect has been questioned in Saudi Arabia with the plane diverted. But he and the pilot Captain Smith, Machar, have now been dealt with in Dubai. Captain Machar was assaulted and the passengers actually restrained the co-pilot in order to protect the captain. Adam Pollyvincic and his family were on board flight FZ1073. USH James Menendez asked Adam when he realized that something was wrong. It was around two to two and a half hours into the flight from Dubai to Tel Aviv. Suddenly we felt a very sharp decrease in height. Now in the first two seconds you think yourself okay just you know it's just an air pocket. We've all been in commercial planes and air pockets it's something that happens. But usually it lasts for like a second or two and then the plane just you know neutralize itself and continue its journey. And this wasn't the case

27:47it took a lot of time almost a minute and we decreased significantly like every person that wasn't seated or with the seatbelt on. I think people that were just you know walking the aisles, picking with other passengers or heading to the toilets everyone fell to the floor. After a couple of seconds we started to hear screams there is blood there is stabbing we need help we heard from the passengers in the first rows. Where were you shadowed this stage? I was set it on row number 13 now it's not it's not a big plane it's the Boeing 737 you have the cockpit then you have like four or five rows of like business class then certain the curtain that was closed and then the tourist class with your young family. Yes with my wife and my two young kids I have six years old Boeing three years old you. I didn't see anything with my eyes because both the curtain was closed and it was on the cockpit but I held everything sorry a lot of people were running towards the cockpit at some point after a couple of the two people not to come anymore because

28:48too many people around the cockpit will probably make more of a mess rather than a help and then after like 10 to 15 minutes one of the passengers that that were in the cockpit told us okay the event is under control and the terrorist attacker is under control. How much time it elapsed between feeling that the plane losing height and that point that you just describe I mean what was it just a few minutes or or even less between 10 to 15 minutes. 10 to 15 minutes it's quite a long time I mean what was going through your mind in those first few minutes what were you saying to your children. In the end of the day you understand very very quickly that literally there is nothing that you can do at this point of time so the only thing that you can do is trying to be cool trying to be in your zone like you know in slang and reflect it to your kids you just tell them yeah everything gonna be all right it's just a malfunction in their plane there is a cool under control the passengers are helping them. It's difficult I wasn't it when people are screaming when people

29:48are talking about blood and I mean there must have been high degree of panic in the cabin. You'd high degree of panic it goes without saying listen I can't not so religious person in my day today life but you know in times of need and eventually everyone turns out with a with a big prey with a big prayer to help them everybody become a bit spiritual when they really need to do it after they told us that the situation is again under control quote-unquote then it was a bit harder to tell the kids that it's a malfunction because people start to walk around the airplane cover with blood all of the airplane was full with them with kids this is the end of the holiday vacation in Israel and Dubai it's a great connection for flights from the far east so a lot of families that came back from a long vacation in Thailand in Japan in China can I ask you about the pilot because much of what subsequently happened and the much better outcome that that followed for the plane I mean it really hinged on the fact that that he managed to fight off the copilot to the extent

30:53that he was able to open the cockpit door because without that things could have turned out very differently couldn't I that's 100% correct without him opening the door we're probably not speaking here right now this man and mr smith indian pilot I can't even start saying I regret it this human bin again and in times of need people show you know the real color inside as you know I don't want to enter into politics in this conversation but the fact and the situation is work to everybody that listen to this show and everybody in the world so these guys were really heroes and when you did land and what was that feeling like how do people react in the beginning you know because obviously Israel and Saudi Arabia don't have any diplomatic relationship so obviously there was a moment of you know phobytense but I must say that we've been treated with full respect and dignity you land and you see a lot of soldiers and a lot of everything and you know everyone was

31:58very very polite they brought a swatter and food and coffee and even sweets for the kids and how are your family I mean did you I imagine hug them a little bit tighter last night yeah for sure that was Adam Polavinsik speaking to news hours James Menendez one of many surprising details about the incident is a comment made by one of the passengers who tackled the LH to sell it in the aircraft's cockpit Yannif Hayun was asked on television by Israeli Prime Minister Beni Menendez Iniyahu how he had managed to stabilize the plane backwards says Prime Minister Netanyahu talking about how he'd pulled the controls backward I watch air-crushing investigation Prime Minister Sir he replies a fact that didn't escape the attention of President Trump this plumber never having flown a plane had the sense to live to stick who would it and you know it's not like planes are different today he used to have a little cereal what

33:00today they fly differently and when I asked why he did that he said he watches that show air disasters you know the show is that crazy I never want to watch it because I watch it I don't like watching it because bad things happen but he said he watches it a lot and he learned from watching that show in fact the name of the show is air crash investigation it's a long-running Canadian documentary drama executive producer of the program is Alex Bistram and we wondered what he made of the name check he got in the middle of a major news story obviously it's great to be recognized and acknowledged that way and I'm glad that our show sort of helped him stay calm and if anything not make the situation worse our show is focused on aviation safety and every episode provides lessons on how aviation can be made safer so look delighted that we played a very

34:03very small role in this event but I don't for a minute think that we affected the outcome that's entirely in the hands of the captain of this lady who really took unbelievable superhuman action to save the lives of everybody on board this guy look he took the action of going towards the cockpit which isn't something he learned on on our show and oh I don't remember doing any episodes where passengers are called upon to help pull the plane out of a absolutely staggering dive like this Alex Bistram executive producer of air crash investigation the flight you buy flight was headed to Israel the copilot is reported to be in a Marnie national who'd worked for flight you buy for about nine months the companies authorization to operate flights in Israel cries that all pilots flying to the country come from states which have normalized relations with Israel a man has not earlier I spoke to Alan Perek who was a pilot for the Israeli airline allow for 20 years he also served in the Israeli Air Force I asked him whether it was known if the

35:08copilot who appeared to try to crash the plane was indeed a Marnie that's what they say I'm not I haven't checked it but that's that's the common knowledge here and as you said it looks like a some kind of a fault by by both the Dubai authorities and the Israeli authorities by allowing him to fly to Israel it's it's a common knowledge a worldwide that if you can't travel to a country as a visitor as a tourist you cannot operate a flight to that country let me ask about one of the details that's come up there's been a lot of talk I think the prime minister mentioned it as well Mr. Netanyahu that the attacker had used an axe against the the pilot who was injured and I think some people might be surprised that they that either there's an axe on board or it's possible to get an axe on board I mean there's a suggestion that actually it's routine for aircraft of this guy to carry an axe which might be used in certain situations where they have to break into the

36:13fuselage is that right yes yes that's exactly a 737 is a plane that I have flown as a captain many hours and he does have an axe in the cockpit and you you needed to break things in case you need to reach fire and to extinguish it so that's that's it there is no way other way to do it right so there was no seriously breach there there is a broader question here isn't there about the standards of airline safety crew recruitment ensuring that the rules are followed people I think assume that after the 911 attacks kind of all the countries really kind of fell into line with each other is that the case or do there remain differences between the attitude of different countries towards aviation safety let's say that the 911 event turned the entire aviation community to a new era in indeed there are changes but I believe that the cockpit that is

37:18flight the door that should be locked at all times is now a common practice in all the lines however there are different regulations regarding for example security screening of the crew member or other things like that maybe even you know security belong is screening of the belongings before you board the plane there are regulations that are pertinent to each country that's correct right there's more there is more common working let me ask you when you look at this incident does it feel to you like a one-off or does it worry you that there might be gaps there might be errors that could potentially allow for others to do this sort of thing I would say that we did a pretty good job in securing our planes in our aviation from threat from outside from people that would try to to kill the pilots from outside we might have a problem with with this new threat

38:24that might be adopted by terrorist organizations and we need to think about it in a different way listen there were some events as you all know of pilot comedic Swiss indeed with the plane and that was not terrible per se but it was the same thing and it could be adopted in the same way Israeli pilot Alan Perreg channel 12 in Israel is reporting Thursday that Israeli security agencies failed to enforce the ban on pilots from countries which don't have diplomatic relations with Israel including a man channel 12 says dozens of among the pilots have been allowed to fly into Israeli recent years we can't so far confirm the accuracy of that report but do please give an eye on the BBC.com slash news website for all the latest developments this is news out

39:30I'm Sean Lay and you're listening to news out on the BBC World Service where we go to Russia now where President Vladimir Putin delivered his annual foreign policy speech in a typically Delphic manner addressing the valdai forum in Moscow he said the multi-polar world created a more open environment for international affairs than in the days of super power rivalry Mr Putin said Russia had no intention of attacking anyone but he did also say it would consider using all types of weapons if Kaliningrad a Russian exclave almost completely surrounded by NATO countries were to be attacked of course if it comes to a direct attack on the Russian federation in this case we're talking about Kaliningrad but possibly some other territories of course the issue of the use by Russia of all arms at the disposal of our country will inevitably and immediately be on the agenda while our Russia editor Steve Rosenberg has been speaking to people in Moscow influential people and a search for clues to President Putin's future intentions

40:36clue number one my brief encounter with Russia's foreign minister he doesn't sound very conciliatory when I ask Sergei Lavrov is Russia waging a hybrid war on Europe he doesn't deny it scakwa it's only when we destroy drone by hybrid war do you mean Russia destroying drones and missiles that Britain and Europe are supplying Ukraine with he says call it what you want this is a war that Europe is waging against us no mention that it was Russia that launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022 mr. Lavrov goes on to accuse the west of using brute force in Venezuela in Iran when I point out that Russia uses brute force every day in Ukraine he doesn't deny that either he says it's to eliminate a direct threat to Russia peace feels a long way away especially

41:43after my next conversation with all finish off Ukraine as a viable state sooner or later Sergei Karaganov is a veteran foreign policy strategist he's also honorary chairman of Russia's council for foreign and defense policy well not occupied all the the territory of Ukraine will create a low fly and non-military zone central and western parts of Ukraine and if they did not agree they will suffer that's not acceptable to Kiev it's not acceptable to Europe and it seems not acceptable to America if it is not acceptable to Europe well that's a problem then we have to go further if they continue this war which is a European war with help of America against Russia if they do not stop it sooner or later we'll feel it is necessary to escalate and according to my scenarios the first series of blows will be conventional but if Europe does not surrender then

42:48unfortunately I will have to go nuclear there will be a little left of some European countries we've heard nuclear saber rattling before from Moscow and plenty of it over the last four and a half years much of it has felt like an attempt to scare Europe into scaling back support for Ukraine it comes and goes but never disappears completely and yet so many Russians I speak to about the war and about tensions with Europe seem to want to pretend that none of this is happening people like Tatiana life's easier that way she thinks there are big parts of nation don't want to think about this situation they want to escape these thoughts and maybe it's easy way to live because we don't think this horrible time every day I think most people wait because we can't change anything unfortunately Steve Rosenberg reporting from Moscow

43:51finally let's return to our top story the Tennessee death row in make Christopher Pike is in critical condition according to our legal team after surviving too failed lethal injections on Wednesday night leave the states governor to halt all executions for the rest of this year Pike had been sentenced to death 30 years ago for torturing and killing a 19-year-old Colleen Slammer with her then boyfriend our correspondent Arnie Wells is in Nashville I only you got some quite intriguing details from the lawyers I understand not least that they actually filed an emergency motion to halt the execution as it was happening that's right I think for those who were in the room it became pretty apparent that something was going wrong although it's still very unclear what exactly went wrong those who were there say that there was essentially a period of about 20 to 30 minutes where the curtain was closed over the execution which meant people couldn't see what had happened before this ambulance then arrived she has now been sent

44:55to hospital for what we're told is life-saving care quite an extraordinary phrase in itself given that less than 24 hours ago the state here in Tennessee was trying to kill her twice we don't know exactly what condition she's in her lawyers say she's in a critical condition they don't know what damage was done to her brain because her medical information is confidential but there are still huge amounts of questions about what went wrong one theory that her lawyers did suggest earlier was perhaps the IV connection essentially the connection to her vein might have not been administered properly and we've spoken to a witness who recalls her saying that it felt like her vein was going to burst what reaction are you hearing from people in Tennessee I.D. Well I spoke to a couple of people here in Nashville outside what local media are reporting is the hospital where she's receiving care and it's as expected deeply divided people here I spoke to one woman who very much supported her being executed but who in her words said she doesn't know why

45:57it wasn't done with a bullet a way that would have been more definite to kill her and said that while she may have suffered things in her past life that wasn't an excuse for the brutal murder that she committed but I've spoken to other people here who strongly disagree with that including one man who actually told me he had campaigned against the death penalty here in Tennessee he felt like this didn't represent the view of Tennesseans he said in his words that the people who run the state are more interested in the kinds of people who vote in Republican primaries so he felt that this was a political policy pushing a more conservative agenda and that no one should have to go through this I think what's interesting though is what unites people on both sides is no one now is happy not those who supported her execution who think this whole thing is a mess but also not those who oppose it who think that this has put her through unnecessary suffering. I.D. Well as BBC's correspondent live in Nashville Tennessee I.D. Thanks so much for that update on our top story don't forget you'll be able to get more on that on BBC.com slash news you'll also be able to hear it here on the BBC World Service I'm Sean Lay thank you very much for your

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