Darci Shannon, National Hardwood Lumber Association

0:00The Woodprenor podcast where sawmill owners and lumber entrepreneurs grow their businesses. Every week, real stories from the timber industry, whether you're starting small or running a big operation, subscribe for real stories and insights from the industry. Hey, real quick before we jump in. You know, the work coming out of these shops and mills is incredible and it deserves a lot more eyes on it. So we built acres of timber, website, search, social leads all in one place. You keep doing the work, we get it in front of more people. It's at acresoftimber.com. Now let's get into it. Hello and welcome back to a brand new episode of the Woodprenor podcast. I'm your host Jennifer Alger and today I have with me Darcy Shannon. She is the member membership services advisor for the NHLA. Welcome Darcy. Thank you. Yeah. Well, good. Good. So, so glad you can join us. We've we've had different people

1:05from NHLA on this podcast before. But we kind of wanted a slightly different perspective. And so thank you so much for joining us. Tell us tell us what the NHLA is and what your role is there with them. The NHLA is well, it's a national hardwood lumber association for those that don't know what that is. Basically, we support the hardwood industry. I like to tell people in a simple manner, it's we promote from the seed to the finished product. And our goal is to work with all of our members work with anybody in the hardwood industry and getting them to work together and promoting it to the world. Yeah. Okay. Great. And Darcy, what? So, so we were talking before and you tell me you'd been with the NHLA for a couple years now. What did you do before that? Well, I did a couple things. I'm a teacher technically by trade or by college. I guess we would say during COVID, I I changed that up. Okay. As I did coaching and teaching just wasn't just wasn't

2:07doing it for me. I went changed changed drastically. I went and worked for a small saw shop in Cahoka, which is where I live. I live in Missouri. So we're based out of Memphis, Tennessee. I live in Missouri. I work from home. Okay. I worked for the saw shop for quite a few years. And while working there, I told my boss, I was like, we we need to join this NHLA. Like, I didn't know what it was. I started talking to John Hester and he pretty much convinced me and we joined. And I of course was myself and tried to get everything cheaper and tried to get my spot at convention cheaper. And said, I'd bring my own trash can and we went to convention in the first 15 minutes. I had the biggest sale that we had ever had. Oh, wow. And it was large and we were like, okay, we can pack up and go home kind of deal. We made our money for the week. That was very convincing

3:07for the NHLA for me in those first 15 minutes. Except I didn't have a trash can. So that is one thing that I do with NHLA at our conventions. I make sure everybody has trash can because I didn't have. Oh, nice. So this was an NHLA convention that you went to in Tennessee. No, we it was the one that flowed around. We float. We're we're working on getting it narrowed down to just a few to where we're just going to be a few different cities this year. It's in Cleveland. That year it happened to be in Louisville. And I became honestly, I became really close with John Hester. And then Renee horns me. She doesn't work for the NHL anymore. Yeah, I know Renee. We yeah. Yes, she's great. A few years of working back and forth with them on things and we talked about me maybe coming to work for the NHLA. They didn't have a position for me. So the main one. So they made one. I love that. And I just that's what that's what companies do when they discover talent. They make places for

4:07them. So that that speaks volumes to who you are. Well, thanks. It was it's pretty great. Yeah, very cool. Okay. So you're Sasha. I'm picturing or I'm I'm thinking, okay, I know why I saw Mill would join the NHLA. Why would a saw shop join the NHLA? What was your benefit there? Obviously there was benefit because you made a great sale. But what was the benefit? What what said? Gosh, I we need to join this at the NHLA. There are different membership levels. So there's you know, the mills like you just discussed. There's cabinet makers. And then there's what we call sustaining members. So standing members are there are service to the industry. It's and it's not just saw blades. I mean, you think big bands saw blades. That's great. I mean, I have a member that makes trash bags every sawmill needs a trash bag. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I like the dust collection trash bags or any kind of trash bag. Okay. Okay. Any any type of service to the industry, anything

5:09that we can do to promote our industry, find them. BioLube is another member of ours. I'm good friends with Kelly and Deb. They they make lubricants for saw blades for saw mills. They there are sustaining members. So any type of a service that is provided to the the industry, that would be a great member. Yeah. And honestly, I know that because Woodmiser is a member as well. And I represent Woodmiser for California and Nevada. So I'm well aware of that. But it isn't something. It isn't something that really comes to mind initially in the membership types of that that use the the NHLA supports members and provides benefit to members beyond just hardwood producers or people trying to sell their hardwood. And so that that's what I was hoping to get out of. Yeah. Yep. No, if they if they don't have those certain services, they can't produce the hardwood. Right. Right. Yeah. So true. You need your blades. You need sharp blades. You need a saw. You need

6:12sales systems and inventory systems and trash bags. Dust collection systems. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. So so Darcy, you've been there a couple years. What what did you think it would be going into it? And what is it actually now that you're there? I didn't really know what I was going into. I just knew they wanted somebody who would reach out to their members and work with members. And you know, everybody's got their different roles and promoting the hardwood. And that's great. And that's what we need to do. And I do that. But I also have to know what our members want. What do you want? How am I going to help you promote what you're doing? How can I put you in contact with somebody? My goal at the end of the day is and the other day I had this phone call that made me happy. It was, hey, I was talking to somebody. I needed this done. And I was like, hey, I can call Darcy. She'll know who we need to talk to. So you're connected. That's the goal. Yeah. Yeah.

7:14Connectors are one of I often some of the most unvalued people. It's like, well, what do you do? Well, no, I don't produce the wood. I don't, you know, I don't sell the lumber. I don't sharpen the saws or make the saws. What I do is I connect. I connect the people who do. And and I love that because that's one of the things I do. I'm supposed to do. Yes. I don't. I don't intentionally do the work. I mean, I can and I have, but I connect and and and the connectors, it, it just helps the whole system just be this fluid ecosystem that works. So, right. Very cool. Very cool. So, so the saw shop that that you were working with, what was your role there? I was all of it except I didn't touch a saw blade. I mean, I could help move it if I needed to, but I didn't like that. But it wasn't your thing. It was sales. I mean, ultimately, I ran the office and and did sales. Okay. Okay. So, so you knew what they needed. You just didn't use them

8:18on the regular. Correct. Got it. Got it. Okay. And and that's in Missouri. Where you're at or? Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. It's right here. I live in Cahokum, Missouri. Very small, very small town. And it's it's located here, which nobody in this town really understands what they do. So, it's funny. Like a saw shop. So, they bring in chain saw blades now. Don't do those. No. You're going to need something really big to haul in your blades. Yeah. Got it. Got it. So, so you're doing saw blades for the big industrial saws. Are they bandsaw circle? They were band and they were circle. They oh, you did both. Nice. Nice. Cool. And is that saw shop still a member of NHLA? Yes. Yeah. Of course they are. Yep. I actually set up some saw filing classes for the NHLA. Okay. And they held one here in Cahokum. Oh nice. Very nice. Very nice. Yep. There were

9:18scholarships available. So, hopefully we can do another one. And and where's the convention this year the NHLA? Convention is in Cleveland. It's the it's next week and it it's going to be a very busy, very good week. We have good registration numbers so far. And I feel I've had quite a few people say we're just going to register when we get there. We don't know exactly what day or whatever. So, it should be very good. Yeah. And so that's next week. So, somebody is on the fence. Not sure if they want to attend the convention. What would what would you say would be a motivator to convince them that yes, you need to be here. And this is why. It's the biggest hardwood show. We're going to call it biggest hardwood networking convention of the year. Okay. And it's not just for say somebody's a small producer. You know, they're they're not producing massive amounts. They don't consider themselves a big player in the hardwood world. Why would they join? Would there still be

10:19benefits to them? Or do you really need to just be doing? There's a lot of. No, there's a lot of benefits. That's one thing that we talk about quite a bit at the NHLA. Everybody wants to focus on and I'm not saying your big members aren't worth it or you know, we shouldn't give them more or whatever, but I like to focus more on small members. And I guess that that's probably because I'm from a small town and because I came from that small saw shop. Yeah. I I focus a lot on my small members and my small members. They need that. They're you know, you can you can be a band saw grinder and be a one man band. I guess is what I like to call them. They still need promoted too. Their name needs to be out there. You guys need to reach out to them. The networking convention is just amazing. How do you have any stories of connections that have been made that you've seen made or participated in at a NHLA conference that maybe wouldn't have happened had had you not

11:23had they not been at that convention? Quite a few. There's there's one member. They are a small we're going to call them distributor. They're a small distributor and they're looking for walnut. Okay. They've never been to convention. Never done anything. I'm from Missouri and Missouri is the walnut capital. Yes. Yes. Yes. So I happen to know if you places a Missouri that you can get the walnut. Yeah. And it just it turned out being huge for this person and they still think and still buy from the walnut place here in Missouri. Okay. That's a small one I guess. I mean, there's there's quite a few. Yeah. Yeah. So somebody looking for walnut didn't know where to get it comes to the NHLA convention and and is able to make those connections with people who are NHLA members who also get a benefit. So you're you're getting benefits from both sides.

12:26Okay. Yeah. That's right. And I like to set up meetings especially at convention. Everybody's there. So it's easy to get everybody together. So anytime that one of my members or you don't even have to be a member. I mean, you're you're welcome if you're a non-member too. It's just there's a lot more benefits to being a member. But I like to set up meetings. I'll set up a time for someone's out to meet with somebody. You know, hey, you guys are both going to be there. What time works for you guys? Give them like 20 minutes or something like that. And we have meeting spots for people a lot of times they'll go out in the hallway or whatever it is. It doesn't matter. Or our exhibitors are there. That's a great time. I mean, they're they're all right there. You can just go to their booth, talk to them, see what they do, get their card and then you come back to them the next week or the week after. But it's just it's a lot of information all at once. Yeah. Yeah. So so there's the connections, the networking that you would get from the conference. But I know there's also education seminars, those types of things. What can you tell me on is on the docket for the upcoming conference? What is a must attend, must learn topic? I think most people are

13:36really for this coming convention right now. Yeah, I think if there's a quite a few people excited about the thermally modified ed session, that's I hear a lot about that. That's that's where they're at right now. Luna Wood is sponsoring it and everybody seems excited for that one. Yeah. Yeah. That is that is it's been around for a while. But it is such a hot topic because it has the potential to take these woods that that could not be in certain environments and train literally chemically transforms them to be able to be in whatever environment. So it is it is phenomenal and I really wish I could be there. Because I can't get it I can't seem to learn enough about it. It and I think that's where everybody else in the industry is not as well as it is just I think it's I think it's the way in the future for for the hardwood industry. I agree. I agree. There's a lot of people questioning certain things with it. I can't answer all of those questions and I just send them to say, listen, say, have you'll answer your questions. I can get you to him. But I can't answer

14:40your questions. I just think it's really pretty. Yeah. Yeah. It is really pretty and and you know and I love the I love the wood that hasn't been thermally modified for the interior because I feel like you can feel the work and and and and just the energy from it and I don't mean that like super woo woo kind of way. It just you just it's anything with nature like you just feel it to your you're in touch with it and you're connected to it. Whereas when it's been thermally modified, you don't always you don't that that feeling's not there as much but it can do more and it can function. Right. So they're both just have such value. They do. Yeah. So what do you think? What do you think is a like the top three things that the hardwood industry can do to get back to a little bit closer to the dollars that we used to see moving in in the hardwood industry versus where they're at now. I know right now we're trying we're reaching out. We have new publications

15:40going out. Design more for like architects and designers. If we can get hardwood in their hands, yeah. I think that that'll make make a big difference every all the alternative wood is just or alternative products. I guess I guess. Yeah. Products that that's what's hurting us and yeah. It may be cheaper but how many times are you going to replace that? Right. Right. Whereas you know I work in the urban salvage and reclaimed and the reclaimed being being the deconstruction and the beauty of wood is you can just keep reusing it and that carbon does stays in there perpetually. And so you're not you're not the embodied carbon to produce the product is very minimal and very natural and then and then you're recycling it and using it it's it's what what has a tendency to be a future antique you know and and you you take this old barn and instead of burning it or you know demolishing and landfilling and chipping it you take that and now you you repurpose that

16:43into something else. You don't do that with synthetic materials. They're just waste. They're just trash. Yeah. And they're bad trash and they're bad trash and sometimes toxic trash and right and ugly trash whereas wood you just repurpose it and it's just more beautiful sometimes than than the first time it was used or or beautiful in a different way I should say. Correct. That's all beautiful. So yes. Very. Yeah. So so tell me tell me about some of the things that you hope like what if if you could wave a magic wand and at this conference coming up next week three things happened what would those three things be? I want a sustaining member to have a really good sale a really big good sale okay. It would be great but one's good yeah. I want to get to know I have quite a few new members that I've never personally met I've just talked to on the phone and I want to get to all of them and

17:46I like to make a personal relationship with all of our members I like to reach out to them when I can I like to go visit them when I can you build a lot of friendships in this industry this industry is is great. I mean you just have you know I mean friends they they ask about your kids and they they might remember their names even their ages what sports be played I mean yeah it's just great I love it. So the goal is to get to all of our new members and and hopefully get that good relationship with them and I guess third I just just want everybody to take that just everybody get your networking in everybody I mean we have our receptions we're going to the hard rock hall of fame there there's a lot of times that you can you can meet with people and I just want everybody to have a have a good time and make it memorable. Yeah yeah definitely I I went to a convention in Cleveland and that was on my list and it didn't happen. I'm like I need to I need to go to the hard rock hall of fame. Well we have a reception there this year. I know I know but

18:47unfortunately I won't be able to make it next week. I have another event I have to be at uh-huh but someday I keep I keep promising someday I'm going to an NHLA event at conference. Well perfect. You said on the risk Carolina. Well yeah we do all such up for North Carolina next year get a hold of me. There you go. Yeah and and you'll have to say hi to all the wouldmiser people and and honestly so so many different people who are going to be there it's like you're right like they're family like we know them for decades you know I've been in the right I was born into a forestry family so this is uh the connections go deep and and I must say they are just a different breed of people just they are they're genuine yeah salted the earth real people very close. Yes correct. So so yeah three outcomes so how if somebody has not yet made the decision to attend the conference next week how do they do it where where would they go to sign up for that they can go to our website or it'd be just as easy just to shoot me over an email or give me a call

19:53okay and and how do they what what is that you are real okay the email address is d.chanan at nhla.com where you can just call myself in which is 660 956 2780 all right and the and the and the website for NHLA it's nhla.com nhla.com and they can register right there for the event next week thank you all right and are you still offering any hotel specials any any uh partnerships there or are they booked i'm pretty sure they're booked we might be able to work something out so just give me a call and and we can see what we can do we we'll get you there some way and airbnb's are so popular now i know so many people are there as well they are yeah and and i'm sure you know people who could share yes they wanted to yep they could very cool very

20:57so so you went from a teacher teaching education the education world and then you went to a saw shop were were you involved in forestry at all before that like how did you go from education to a saw shop just uh lock at the draw or kind of i guess my grandparents owned a lumberyard and construction business here in kowkow so i grew up with that my dad i mean i'm gonna say he's perfect because he is but has built everything i mean i've been around with my whole life yeah okay so so it's kind of kind of in your blood kind of in your DNA as it were to to go into this industry plus you're in walnut country so how could you i am i am and my mom's a funeral director and baitsville i mean oh really the most beautiful caskets baitsville indiana bait both no she's a funeral home director here in kahoka misery but baitsville is a casket company right and they use all hardwood

21:58oh yeah yeah and so i i know um baitsville indiana where woodmysers are made right out the street from them or i think even on like as you drive down you go by baitsville caskets so i just assume they were all made there yep there's some there's made in i believe indiana i know arcan saw mm-hmm okay so they have a few different locations but yeah yeah so yeah very interesting around the hardwood so so anything in particular passionate about with the wood industry that you'd like the listeners to know i like i mean i guess my passion is more just working with our members and and how i can help their businesses grow and keep them a business yeah right now it's you know it's a it's a hard industry and we we just have to work together and and put people with other people or promote them the best that we can just to keep their businesses going yeah yeah absolutely so what is what what is one of the things that that you know when when when you took this on that

23:02that you feel like is your biggest challenge to getting people to see the value of the NHLA like the biggest obstacle to overcome with that i think we have a lot of i mean i don't want to say we have a lot of negative people but there's a lot of negativity just you know we're worried about it's gonna go bad and and we don't need to do this anymore because that's already going bad yeah mentality yeah we can actually keep it going and make it good we mean we're doing everything that we can you know we're the biggest contribute to the hardwood federation we go to washington i i've gone the past few years uh to washington with the federation we are a big part of the crossroads that's going on right now i mean we're we're doing everything we can to promote the industry and and we'd like to see them join in with us there's a there's a lot of benefits to it not just oh you can get up to 35% off at cabela's which is really nice that is pretty cool yeah that's a good one i like that at christmas time yeah but there's there's a lot of other things i mean just just the networking and and meeting with people and and having people to connect you to your resources

24:08and what you need classes that we offer the soft filing class for one i mean we're we promote a lot of the small associations just just keeping it going yeah yeah definitely and and i don't think i don't think a lot of people really put enough stock into the value of education and and that continued growth and and and and one of the things the more you grow in the um the more educate education you get and it doesn't have to be formal degrees it can just be those those classes those seminars those just actual education and learning how that literally shifts your mind shift your mindset to be more positive more optimistic and less of that negativity and i would just challenge and encourage everyone listening to focus on the positive because we determine our outcomes by the words that we say a lot of times it's like we self sabotage by by talking in these negative circles whereas a correct shift that mindset to positivity and yeah this does suck you know

25:14the economy's not what it once was the the hardwood sales are not as high as they were and and those are real things and so i'm not saying put your head in the sand i'm saying but it's been bad before what steps can i do to change that correct one thing if i do one thing today and what's the next right step and the next right step and and and people like you making those connections and helping each person take that next one positive step positive mindset to growth i think that's how we change this and how and i love what you guys are doing um with the real american hardwood and yes and the cross promotion there it it helps it helps wood in general whether it's hard wood or softwood and i know your i know your main focus is hardwoods but it just helps would be chosen more every time you guys are working with those architects and designers to get wood spec to

26:15you're helping the entire wood products industry and correct thank you for that even though you know even those who aren't members if you're in the summer industry you're getting the residual benefits of what the in-h and real american hardwood is doing in those promotions so value that treasure that yes and and those are residual benefits but there are so many other benefits to being an NHLA member and to attending these conferences so correct so cabellas okay so so yeah well it's secret i see cabellas it's technically best pro shops but cabellas and best pro shops works together so got it i mean up to 35% off is really good on some that is no fire alarm really good oh no fire arms okay my 16 year old was like okay so i've got this i was like it's can't be that doesn't work for that but how about those waiters you wanted right all the all the accessories to the firearm that that also cost an arm and a leg correct yeah very cool we always take our

27:18our grandkids to best pro shop around Christmas it's you it's not on Christmas day it's either shortly after or shortly before and they get so much money to go run through the store and pick you know all their all their stuff that they want and that's always a always a big treat for them so right well you'll have to take a trip to Memphis to to Memphis Tennessee and go to the Bass Pro Shop pyramid we we will we did take them strange story but we did take them a few Christmas as a go and see because we're in California to the one in Springfield Missouri and did that's a good one we do it yeah we do have a little Christmas picture at Bass Pro year and and we did a did a trip out there my brother lives in where does he live grow voclohoma so up in the north what is that north east corner of Oklahoma and so it wasn't that far of a drive over to Springfields right we'll get a little day trip and and that was that was where they got

28:19their Christmas money to spend perfect perfect that's a that's a really good Bass Pro there yeah and I look at all the wood that's in there and I'm I'm thinking who's producing this always that mindset always goes back to wood so yep always yeah well do you see any parting words anything else you want to share no I appreciate you having me on here it's been great I love that I was able to talk about NHL A and and what we do and what I do and if anybody has any questions or they just want to try something out give me a call I'll take care of you yeah and that was d.shanted at NHL A.com is that correct correct yeah you can reach out to her directly you don't have to get lost in the NHL A.com you can speak to real people who can really walk you through you can talk to her she'll explain you or you can explain your exact scenario and she'll give you tips for how to walk that so yeah that is wonderful thank you so much for being on today Darcy and thank you

29:20all for listening to another episode of the wood manure podcast and remember a new episode drops every Thursday morning and so wherever you consume your podcasts check it out like subscribe and share we appreciate all of you thanks thank you thanks for listening this episode is brought to you by sawmills near me get your free listing on sawmills near me dot com