Dana Bash: "The Elections That Changed the World"

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1:03watch. Watch college ball your way? Sling lets you do that. Learn more at sling.com. Hi, it's Michael Smerchanish. Welcome to Book Club with Michael Smerchanish, a collection of Michael's favorite interviews with authors from the last 30 years through today on the air on radio. That sets my book club apart is that I actually read the books. Book Club is now in session. Have you lived through an election that changed the world? Think about it. Have you lived through an election that changed the world? Mo that over while a chat with Denabash, the author of a brand new book, The Elections that changed the world. Denabash of course is CNN's chief political correspondent and the host of Inside Politics with Denabash as well as co-host of Sunday Morning State of the Union. Dana, congratulations on the book today is publication day. I've already read it. Tell me about the approach. Of course you have Michael.

2:04Thank you. Thank you for that. I love it. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. Do you even read the book? Work up your own list. Like what elections do you think were most consequential? But I'm curious as to what was your litmus test? First of all, Michael, thank you so much for having me and I was joking because you read it because this is what you do. You are so good on so many levels including this one. No, it's true. The litmus test is or was a combination of elections that changed the world because they were elections for a leadership government office for in the case of one of Pope. And also for how do I put it? Some civic, without giving it away, I'll give it away.

3:07Some civic organizations that ended up producing leaders that really did change the world. So the point is that democracy and voting can take various forms. And the way that you phrased your opening I think is so perfect because when we go to the polls, we are trying to affect change for our lives, which is what it should be. What we don't know is if that change is going to affect people around the world or people for generations. And in the case of the examples in this book, we have 15 pivotal elections that changed the world. They did change the world for generations for good and for bad. It is subjective. And so we picked 15 that are kind of emblematic and examples of different kinds of elections. But there's so many more. We could do 15 more and then 15 more after that. Every four years now, this is going to be part of my post-Dana Bash stick when I opened

4:11the telephone lines is to remind people that every four years now, we are told this is the most important election of your life. And by the way, arguably a couple of the last ones really have been, I think. But I almost get tired of hearing it. I wonder in a post-Trump world, if they'll still be saying that in 2028, they probably will. Listen, I've I sowed on three of my favorite chapters. Okay. Okay. Do you want to hazard a guess? I have three of the 15. Let's see. Let's just see how well you can read me. Do you? Okay. Yes. Yeah. Go ahead. What do you think? You got three of the cards. Nope. Nope. Oh, I thought because of judicial view that you would like that. Okay. This may be a bust. Maybe we shouldn't have done this. Okay. No, let's try. Okay. The German elections? No, but kind of close. Let me help you. Okay.

5:12So we're something World War II. So it was either it was either at Lee beating Churchill. Yeah. All right. All right. I got there. I got there. I'm so glad you chose that one. Here's my question. And that's not exactly defeat in that great immediately end of World War II, at least as to Europe, Winston Churchill. I mean, that had to be like the biggest upset of all time. It was. It was it was one of the biggest upsets of all time. This was 1945. As you said, Winston Churchill is in the middle of finishing an unbelievable victory to basically save the Western world. And he has to run for reelection. And people, the answer to your question is people were exhausted. They were exhausted. They didn't have they had rations. They didn't have proper jobs. And it went down to fundamentals. And what Clement Attlee was was saying was I'm effectively offering you.

6:13You didn't use the S word, but a more socialist agenda where I will make sure that the government is responsible for giving you, making sure that you have fair housing that you and your kids have an education. And things of that nature. And even though everybody adored Winston Churchill, they were ready to turn the page to new leadership. And that's why Clement Attlee won in such a big way. And of course Winston Churchill is one of the greatest icons in world history as he should be. But Clement Attlee is in many ways a footnote. And he was beaten again, that four years later, I believe, by Churchill who came back. But Attlee shouldn't be because what he did in Great Britain was he was responsible for making sure that the national health care system got in place.

7:18So he put he and others in his government actually implemented a lot of the government reforms that he promised. Oh, and by the way, his government was the one that said, okay, British Empire is going to pull out of India. The British Empire is going to pull out of what became Sri Lanka, what became Myanmar. And so he also helped to dismantle the British Empire and not to mention Palestine, by the way, in a way that that really helped end it as it had been in place for centuries. From your book, more than 24 million men and women went to the polls on election day, 72.8% of the electorate. And then they waited three weeks as the ballots trickled in from service members around the world, as well as some districts slow to report. During that time, government business proceeded normally. In the middle of that odd waiting period, I love this part. Prime Minister Churchill asked Attlee to join him as an observer at a conference with

8:23Stalin and the new American president Harry Truman held in Potsdam, Germany to determine Germany's fate and begin laying out plans for the post-war world. I was thinking as I was reading it, it was probably a gentlemanly like gesture by a Churchill who thought, well, there's no way he's going to be the guy, but I should do this. This is the right thing to do, because nobody expected that Attlee was going to win that election. That's exactly right. And the two of them had a relationship because during the war, Attlee was part of a, basically, a war government. And so they did know each other quite well and worked together well. The other thing about that election, which is reminiscent of what we're seeing right now in the United States of America, is that Churchill was pounding Attlee for being, for socialism and the dangers of socialism.

9:24He actually even went as far as to, and this is obviously the other side of the political spectrum, say that his government would have Gestapo like tactics, that fact fired. People did not like that because to accuse a fellow Brit of Gestapo like tactics when it is 1945, didn't go so well. Quote, Churchill set the tone in his very first radio address of the campaign. He told them is abhorrent to the British ideas of freedom. There can be no doubt that socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism. And by the way, as Dana Bash points out, and I think our audience probably knows this, 1951, Attlee calls for quote unquote snap elections, his gamble fails. Although labor received the highest number of votes overall, cast for a party, conservatives want a majority in parliament. And who came back? Winston Churchill. Okay. After 1955, I got to say, if you said to me before I read Dana Bash's book, Dana Bash's

10:28book, the elections that changed the world, if you said to me, Michael, in history, what's the consequence? What's the relevance of the Montgomery Improvement Association? I would have drawn a blank. What is it? What's the relevance? The relevance is that a group of civil rights leaders in Montgomery, Alabama, who were leading the bus boycott, decided that they needed a local organization to run it. And then they needed a leader to run that organization. And there were options, who were people who were already very well-known in the civil rights movement in Montgomery. But because of politics, they decided that they needed to not pick one of the other faction. They wanted to find somebody new. And Joanne Robinson, one of the unbelievable she-ros, as Billie Jean King would say, of that movement, said, you know, at my church at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church, there's a new pastor.

11:28He just came from Atlanta. And he moves people with his words. And they say, I'd bring him in. So he came in and they met him. And in a show of hands, a Zionist AME church, show of hands, they all said, okay. You're the guy, Martin Luther King Jr. He was 26 years old. He'd only been in Montgomery for less than a year. And quite literally, the rest is history. Had that not happened? Had they not decided he's a guy who can lead us? Might not have known who he is. And he might not have been able to quite literally change the world, certainly, the United States of America with his words, with his actions, with his organizing, and everybody else who was working with him. Did you have a copy of the book, handy? Yes. Can you open it to page 193? This is Book Club with Michael Smirconish from Sirius XM. Fall never arrives all at once. A jacket needs a dress.

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13:34by 85%. With the strongest will survive this shutting. Pantene abundant and strong. For a limited time, you can get a big Mac meal for just $8. That's a burger, fries, and a drink. They don't call it an extra-value meal for nothing. Get a big Mac meal only at McDonald's. Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. Michael Smirconish program. Listen weekdays at 9 E.M.E. is done, POTUS. Sirius XM, Channel 124, and anytime on the Sirius XM app. Do you have a copy of the book, Handy? Yes. Can you open it to page 193? Yes. And the first full paragraph, I was going to read it, but why I have done a bash here. Okay. Why don't you read it? Okay. Okay. Beginning with the word rather, just read that paragraph because that's the one I circled. Rather than a national election involving millions of people and costing millions of dollars, or the highly structured regular elections held by large organizations, unions, for instance,

14:36with nominations and campaigning over a period of time, this was a simple foundational election. It was the kind of election held every day by school boards, teams, and small groups throughout the world. It was the essence of the democratic process. Even those people present in the room did not consider it special and certainly not historic. They were sure it soon would be forgotten what happened afterward proved them wrong. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing to think of that as an election that changed the world. I didn't know of an elect. I, of course, know of the legacy of Martin Luther King, Jr. I didn't know there was an election, you know, from which he rose. I just thought that was really cool and amazing. Okay. Here comes number three of 15. Don't worry. We're not giving it all away. It's 15 different chapters on consequential elections. These are the three that interested me the most. Let's talk Ronald Reagan and no. We're not going to, we're not going to talk 1980.

15:36No, we're going to talk. This is going to be my next guess for you. I wasn't on the Reagan. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So why, why are you writing about Reagan in 1966? Because Ronald Reagan in 1966 won the California gubernatorial election. And that matters because that election brought back the conservative movement, which had been just in tatters after Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential election when he lost so badly. Lyndon Johnson won in such a huge landslide. And Reagan had dipped his toe into politics in 1964 because he gave a very long speech describing why he was a lifelong Democrat. And then he became a Republican, all the reasons for that known as this speech. And it was, and obviously that speech and nothing was enough to get Goldwater over the line. But it was that speech that had political operatives in the conservative movement saying,

16:41oh, this is interesting. Maybe it's not the ideals. Maybe it's not the philosophy of the conservative movement. It's just that we haven't had the right messenger. And they convinced him. It wasn't easy at first. They convinced him to run for governor. And first of all, it wasn't even a sure thing that he was going to get the nomination. And then he did. And then it wasn't even a sure thing that he was going to beat Pat Brown, the legendary Pat Brown in California, which there were, I'm sure, more elected republic, excuse me. That registered Republicans back then than there are now, but it was still a blue state. And he did it by being Ronald Reagan, by using his acting chops, by using his understanding of cameras of communication and putting things in bite-sized pieces. And he did it by using the first, we believe, the first real team of political communication strategists to help them do that. And from there on in, out it was off to the races and the conservative movement was back.

17:44It only took a couple of years. But in 1964, from everything, I have read, nobody thought that conservatives would come back anytime soon after that Goldwater loss. So Goldwater gets spanked in the 64 election. And the line that everybody remembers and you write about it in the book, extremism in the defense of liberty. Think about this now. And then, in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. Reagan delivers an incredible speech, the speech as Dana puts it at that convention. And although conservatism gets wiped out in the 64 election, nevertheless, Ronald Reagan is able to get elected governor of California in 66. Oh, and one other detail that's also in the book, something else I did not know. Reagan didn't change his party registration from Democrat to Republican until 1962. Just two years before the 64. Right. And then two years, the daisy commercial is what you're making reference to.

18:47So okay, now I need to ask you this before we run out of time. So the final campaign that you write about is the Mandela election as president of South Africa in 1994. And then there's nothing, there's nothing there after chronologically. You had to have considered 2016 and Trump's election. Why is that not in the book? We absolutely considered it. By the way, David Fisher, my co-author is just spectacular. This is the second book we've done together. And he's just amazing. And we talked about it. The answer is, perhaps, I don't know, 10, 15 years down the road doing a historic look back, it will be in there. But we just decided that we wanted to not do more recent elections. And we thought 32 years was probably enough. There's not written on Donald Trump.

19:50And there will continue to be a lot written on that. We're still in the Trump era. Even though 2016 obviously was 10 years ago, we're still in the era. So I don't think you can write a historical book about something that is current. I was out of it. If I were in the room with the two of you, that's what I thought you said. I would have tried to talk you out of it, I think. But then my secondary position would have been to say, okay, Dana, how about Brexit? Like if you don't want to, if you don't want, because Brexit, Brexit was really the sign of what was about to hit us in the United States. And this rise of populism all around the globe, I think I would have made a pitch for Brexit. Oh yeah, that's good. So that's, I was going to ask you, if you were to write this, what would you have chosen? Brexit's a really good one. I like that. What else would you have done? Okay, the thing about Trump, otherwise, I don't have any notes for you. I really don't. I'm going to talk to the audience about it. Because it is subjective. It is totally subjective. But here's something else that I want you to know.

20:51Prior to Dana Bash coming on to talk about her brand new book, The Elections, The Change the World. I was reflecting on Mamdani and Trump yesterday at Gracie Mansion. I heard that. I was listening. The moment, okay, applauding the civility. And nevertheless, the phone lines melt down from people who they don't want to hear it. It involves Trump there against it. I know. So had you said 2016 was a consequential election, there would have been tremendous blowback because people would have read it the way they read Time Magazine, the person of the year as an honorific, even if it isn't an honorific, right? I mean, Hitler and Stalin were a person of the year by Time Magazine and their criteria just wonders about consequence, not for the good. Precisely. Precisely. Yeah. And that's not quite in all our honesty. That is not the reason we didn't do it. It was more about time. Time passed than controversy that it would bring. Well, the book's great. My audience will love it. Thank you, Michael. The title of the book is The Elections That Changed the World.

21:54Dana Bash is the author of this book with David Fisher. I should have said that at the outset and I didn't. I wish all good things with the book and thank you so much for stopping by to talk about. Michael, it's a pleasure to be here. You know, you host my second favorite show on CNN. I'm sad that every time I'm with you, I love your Saturday morning show. Tune in 9 a.m. Saturdays. You're nice to say that. Thank you, Dana. Okay. Okay. Let's stand a bash, everybody. Nothing beats tradition, like weekly game nights at Mom's house. And Toastitos, crafted with masa made the traditional way, starting with whole corn kernels, with flavors worth gathering around, like a hint of lime and Mexican street corn, and no artificial colors, flavors, or preservatives, that's the Toastitos way. And Toastitos to your next game night, and you'll be winning either way. Toastitos, tradition matters.

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