Couper Moorhead returns for a Heat conversation! Team USA takeaways + Watch out for France | The Dunker Spot

0:00Hi, hello, we have a fun episode of the Dunker Spot coming your way. First, the great Cooper Morehead is back and we are talking all things. Heat, Yannis is a member of the Miami Heat now. Clay Thompson is as well. Bobby Portis is here. What did a new additions look like? What kind of shifts will we see from here? Expostra, what does this mean for BAM? We talk about all of that and more. And then we shift to the WSI team USA three and a two straight wins. One was a little tougher than the other. We talk about our broad takeaways. We get into some of the lineup minutia and more. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Hi, hello and welcome to another episode of the Dunker Spot. We are part of the Yahoo Sports Network. I am your host, the guy is Duncan. And join me as always is my co-host, the always ex-lex D Jones Jr. Steve. Good morning, how are you? It's time. Okay, we have the abbreviated intro, which means we once again have a guest making his return to the show is the great Cooper Morehead. Cooper, welcome back.

1:00How are you? I'm great. Fellows, nothing really makes you feel live like three days of Disney with your kids over a holiday weekend. So my brain is activated, my muscles are tired, but I'm ready to go. And I'm thrilled to be here with you guys again. Oh, see. I wish we had more time. That's like 10 minutes we could get to. We will leave that for now. We're here to talk some heat as they are instantly one of the most fascinating teams in the event heading into the season. And normally when we have our guest episodes, especially in the off season, it's like, what did you expect? And then to last year, how did you absorb last year? We had you on, I think, in March. And so we had a pretty good feel of like what your early expectations were, how they've subsided from there. And so I guess the question now, it's been your way is, how did you absorb the clothes to the heat season? And what was your biggest question mark heading into the off season for Miami? Yeah, it was a tough finish. Even besides the loss in Charlotte, which obviously didn't go the way anybody wanted to, the defense kind of slipped over the last month and a half. And I think it was a little difficult for people to wrap their minds around that because

2:01it was really killing them on defense, it was really opponent three point percentages. And as you guys know, a lot of that's just variance. Their actual effectiveness on defense wasn't changing that much. They were just giving up high defensive ratings and that was kind of why they ended up in that Charlotte game and the plan. But overall, in the season, I mean, to me, it was a story of what we talked about in March, which was that system that they were running that really cool. You know, five out, constantly relocate, reduce the amount of screens, create proper spacing for driving angles and dynamic drives, get downhill. It was one of the most unique offenses in the league, but it was also the story of a system can only take you so far. And the system kind of really, you know, up their drives, up their transition, they were the fastest team in the league, up their isolations. But their actual efficiency and a lot of those types of plays weren't that they weren't always top 10 to league. There are sometimes a little bit below that. So, you know, the system really accomplished a lot and gave them one of their best offensive seasons in a long, long time.

3:02But it also can't really give you more than you already have versus as far as you're maximizing your talent, but you're not adding talent. And now they've added one of the best talents in the league. And we can really dive into what they're going to do now, but I'm just fascinating to see what spoke and do now with the top five player again. That's what I was going to say based on what you said. The system was great. The system was fantastic. You have now added Yannis onto the Cumpo. Not necessarily too specifically that, but just in general. And I think Yannis is a person who, as good as Miami was with pace and tempo, they had to work to make defenses pay. They had to give drive, give kick, give drive, give kick. You had to do things to make the defense pay attention. Yannis onto the Cumpo. Ever since Dan Van Gundy said, build a wall, everyone's built a wall. So for me, how do you feel about having a player who plays with that kind of force?

4:04Not necessarily within specifically what Miami did last year, but just in general. What do you think that means for Miami? Because he draws attention in a way that I don't know if people necessarily give enough respect to. Yeah, I don't know. It's been so long since I've had a player who really drew consistent double teams like this. I mean, there were periods every season, both with BAM and Jimmy, where teams like Dallas would come in and those guys would draw double teams. And all of a sudden, like the next two weeks worth of opponents would start doing that, but then it would fade away. You know, Dwayne did it when he came back a little bit, but really since like the big three since LeBron and Dwayne, those guys are getting doubled all the time. And now they've got Yannis who, I mean, you can make your off into Cipola's, put Yannis on the floor, have him make a move, and then he's getting doubled and he's playmaking out of that because he's one of the best playmakers they've also probably had since LeBron. Not just in terms of being a willing and efficient passer, but also being the kind of guy who can really make those tough plays the over the top skip passes. He can work in traffic to another big.

5:05He can make all those passes, but the question now is, you know, you've got the most dominant interior force in the league. I kind of call him Shaq on wheels sometimes, just in terms of the way the league treats him because you got it. It's like having Shaq barreling down that you, like 1995, 1996 version of Shaq, but does he fit that system? Can you still run what it does? I mean, that system in general, spacing around getting guys downhill and driving, I mean, that seems like it fits Yannis to a tee. We don't really know. We can't say what's supposed to get run until we get into training camp and preseason we see what it does, but then you've also got Yannis is a really good on-ball guy. We all know what he can do with movement shooters like Clay and Tim Hardaway. You can run flare screens with them. That's an unstoppable combination and a lot of instances. And then one of the big questions with the system last year was, can you run a hybrid, right? You can introduce screens without it muddying up what makes that system effective in the first place because there was a time last year where Tyler here overturned from his foot

6:09injury and they tried to introduce more screens. The volume went up a little bit and it worked okay, but it was a little funky in terms of the on-court balance, line up to line up to line up. And then you get Tyler goes out again and he comes back and the second time he came back, he weren't really trying that and it was really back to what they were doing with screen volume almost half that of the 29th team really, right? So do they want to go, how much pick and roll do they want to go, how much of this system, which is a great probably Yannis system, but does it fit the rest of the roster? I think that's the question we need to find out. And then how much can you really run a hybrid? Because that system again has not been tested in the playoffs because of what happened last year. So there's a lot of questions we have, a lot of things that fit Yannis really great, but you also haven't fit in the rest of the roster and how much the rest of the roster not just the system can help Yannis as well. This is probably question number one for me, beyond like the overall excitement of Miami

7:11to your point, who just having a no doubt about it superstar in the building for the first time in a very long time. It's just like what does blend is going to be because the spacing principles were incredibly strong. And in theory, when you add one of the best drivers ever into that kind of spacing dynamic, it should be more difficult to bounce off of Steve, build the wall. And thus you should see it even more efficient, Yannis. And if teams are still committed to sending two or three bodies, that should open up more catatowns shoot opportunities and a much higher shot quality overall for the heat roster and that should lead to the boost. Like it was one of the things that I asked Yannis about during the intro presses, like you know, you obviously played against Miami as they shifted the offense, just like what your general impression, how do you feel you slide into that? And as far as the answer is, he said, like I'm excited to learn more about it and kind of gracing myself into it. Now, that could just be intro presser, I am saying the right things. But to the overall, you know, bigger picture question of like what is Spowe going to do? If there is buy-in from Yannis, maybe it's 15 inverted picking rolls instead of 25

8:15for him. And like what does that do for the heat offense overall, especially since they have these guys like Clay, like Tim Hardaway Jr., where if they're not great screeners, they can at least slip out of there and you can just cause a level of friction for defense. So I'm excited to see what that part looks like. I guess while we're here, and I know Steve wanted to get to this too, where are you at with Spowe entering this offseason? Like I think we all recognize how great of a coach he is. This has to be a very exciting time for him as he is always in the lab trying to tinker and figure out like what the next evolution of heat basketball and what his own evolution is going to be. What kind of shifts do you expect from him heading into the seat? I just, giving Spowe a full, you know, toolbox, giving him all the toys in the playroom to play with is one of the most fascinating things I think the entire league. It might, maybe it's not the story that's going to lead sports center, but it, to me, it's one of the most interesting things as a no stories in the league because when you give him all of these options, you can't nail him down on any one thing because he's so

9:16good at coaching up different things. So, you know, over the years, go back to his entire history. He has always changed the offense. There's not a Spowe system. There's Spowe finding the right systems for what his team is. And I've always made this point over the years where, yeah, maybe there are some years where the heat finished 20th in offense and efficiency. But maybe the talent on that team on the roster was, would have been 25th with another coach. I think he gets the most juice out of the orange out of the apple as you can possibly get pretty much every single season by fitting what they do to the roster at hand. And I just think he's so brilliant and willing to, he likes to make the, his one of his coach is being comfortable, being uncomfortable. And he's willing to describe the whole playbook over the off season and say, no, we're going to do this because this is the right for the roster. Even if that means you have to spend all the training camp doing that one thing. That's pretty much what they did last year. So the possibilities are really endless.

10:16And even on defense, we can get into the defense a little bit too. But there's certain things where we think they're going to do that might fit this roster. And the Spowe might come out and game one, there's something completely different. And we're all like, well, why don't we think of that? Because Spowe's been the one thinking about this whole time, right? There's a reason that teams weren't playing zone for as long as they did. And then suppose like, no, why aren't we playing zone? Let's do it. There's reasons why we should be using zone. So it's, I think it's a incredibly exciting. I'm really excited to see what he comes out just in training camp and preseason with. He won't say anything about it because he likes to protect know what he's doing early in the season. You know, give Spowe the toys in the world. Let's see what he cooks up with. I would say I'm most fascinated to see what Eric Spolscher wants to do with this team. Like what Coop said to bounce off of it, there's never one specific thing Spowe's going to do outside of. I'm going to look at this roster. I know where we need to go. I know what y'all can do. I'm going to take as much of what y'all can do and embrace that and enhance that and

11:19get us to where we need to go every single year, no matter what it's been. Whoever's been in this building has had that kind of effect. Joe Johnson was playing defense in Miami. Do you know a mat I would different podcasts? That's fine. But like I want to see as Coop said, there's always it's not a reinvention. It's just a understanding with Spowe. So I want to see what does he think this team can be? What attempts will he try to make defensively? What attempts will he try to make offensively? They dribble handoff team. Like a lot of the pace tempo stuff we talked about. Miami did that early and they had to evolve within NBA being like, oh, that's cool. We'll do that as well. Well, fine. Pick and roll drive kick. We'll figure it out. It is what it is. But now he has a force in the honest. He still has BAM. And now, okay, defensively, are we going to have more of a comfort to where, oh, hey, that

12:22zone that y'all don't like, it's really in the back pocket tremendously. So like, that's why like if you ask me who the team I want to see the most or who I want to see first, it's Miami because I want to see what's the attempt. What are you trying to do? What are you trying to put pressure on? So that's like, I like, for me, it feels like Spowe is the specific person built for this specific task challenge to be like, hey, I got an opportunity to wait in the game. I've done this with Dwayne. I've done this with LeBron. I can get this with the honest. I can put myself in a position to make everything kind of smooth. I feel like that's the most underrated part of the heat season to me. Yeah. I mean, if you look at it, like just this roster configuration, having not just, it's, there's double big, but then there's double playmaking big where a lot of your offense could run through those guys. There aren't a lot of historical examples for that kind of a thing. Like you go around the last 30, 40, 50 years, this is not a common roster construction.

13:26That doesn't mean it's good or bad. It just means it's interesting. And you want to give Spowe interesting because he will always find a way to, you know, he, I know it's probably a two comment on quote these days and it's money ball, but he's an adapter diet coach. And he's going to do that every single season. I love that. I guess to the defense of in, because as we've, you know, we talked about the offense and how it's kind of shifted based on what the personnel has been during the sport era, the defense has to. Like we have seen heavy switch scene. We have seen. Let's, let's doubt his back. Let's go to more drop. Let's see if we get aid to protect a little bit. The zone has been ever present. They've been around the top five some years. They are first by a country mile. Sometimes they're first by like seven country miles. For cool for you, what do you anticipate the base being? Do you, or I guess how similar do you anticipate the structure of the defense being compared to last year? Yeah. I mean, I think you just look at historical examples. And again, Spowe might come out with something completely different. I'm just guessing based on the history, especially the history with BAM.

14:27And when BAM, when they had the personnel around BAM to be a switching team, they've pretty much been a switching team. When they've gone back to drop as they did two, three years ago, it was not because of BAM. It was because the personnel around him changed. And that was better for the team. And BAM being the unselfish defense of superstar that he is was willing to say, Hey, I'm okay playing maybe not my best coverage, but if it's the coverage that's best for the rest of the team. Last year, you know, I think having guys like Andrew Wiggins, David Mitchell, Pellalarsson, having more virtual defenders, they were able to go back to switching more. And they actually switched either the first or second most picking roles in the league that last year, depending on which, you know, metric you're using. So, you know, you add a YAHS on to the Kumpur to that and granted YAHS can be an excellent switch defender. But Milwaukee, as we know, over the years, they ran some pretty conservative schemes that they stuck with. So, you know, it wasn't always put into place where you was going to switch a time. But you put him and BAM next to each other.

15:29That has a foundation to me. What could be one of the best switching defenses we have ever seen? Because we just saw one of the best switches switching defenses we've ever seen. But that one sees more BAM had PJ Tucker next to him. So, that's what it could be. But they're never going to just throw a fastball down the middle. That's not supposed style. There's going to be the zone. BAM has, you know, he's got the green dot in his helmet. He can alter coverages on the floor as he sees necessary, depending on the lineups. The bench lineup might not be the most switching lineup that they have. That might be where they go more zone. But they're going to be able to do all these different things. But in terms of flattening out opposing defenses, I think, you know, it's just a BAM team as a switching team until it's not. So, I'm expecting that. My big question about the defense is how much live ball turnover generation is there going to be? Because if you're playing very switching or keeping the ball in front, they don't have a lot of gambling, high steel generation guys, even though they have guys with good hands, but that's not really, you know,

16:30across the roster, their identity. So, this could be a top five defense, but is it going to be a top 10, you know, steel percentage team in terms of feeding their offense and feeding their transition game that much? I don't know yet. That's what Spohes has just, you know, sought out is creating chaos and creating those live ball opportunities. We just need to see how it works within this roster, especially if they go with, you know, keeping their, their turns keeping the ball in front type of switching defense. I am so glad that you said this because like one of the things that I had my note was going through some of the Miami defense stuff. 17th and opponent turnover rate last year. And like one of the questions I think I've floored to Steve before as well. It's just like, do we see Spoh ramp up to on the ball with Vam and Yannis to unlock some of the Roman with the honest in particular? Because I would imagine we see more of like at the level coach with Bobby Porter's plus his own. That's just generally where he's at his best. But I think you have a little bit of room to have Vam and the level activate some of the hands that he has.

17:34Well, also having Yannis is more of a Roman. Maybe that's where you get to some of that compare it to like the deep drop that we saw on Milwaukee as Bambas fine and drop, but not the sub elite and drop. Do you activate away? Like I don't anticipate them going to like top three and blitz rate or anything like that. But I do just have the general question of do they ramp up the activity with those two on the floor to kind of get the best of both worlds? I'm fascinated by that. I've thought about that a lot and I've had a lot of people I've had people in Miami bring up to me like, yeah, they should go back to playing defense like they did in 2012. And the more I was like, yeah, that sounds great, but there's a reason he was on to do as much anymore is because it's really hard to do. Those to like that is one of the most taxing styles of defense that you could possibly play. And also the way the league has changed makes those blitzes much more difficult than they were in 2011, 2012. Right. Your rotations to all the shooters, the spacing and modern basketball is so much more difficult than it used to be. So I think you definitely, you know, they will be aggressive because they spoke likes to run aggressive defenses. But are you going to blitz or are you going to have ball to ball to level?

18:36I think you made up a really good point or made a really good point that, you know, maybe a bam is on the primary screener because that's where he's 5% better. And then Yoss is the off-ball guy because he's such the Yoss is probably the better, you know, by a few percentage points, Brent protector of the two off-ball weeks I guy creating chaos there in the passing lanes. As bam is making the pass itself tougher, you know, it's instead of a straight line pass or an on target pass. It's a slight arc. And that's where Yoss can use his length in the week side to generate those turnover. So, you know, there's a lot of questions with what they can do. I just, you know, anybody who's going to say, let's go back to 2012. I don't think you can do that because the league isn't going back to 2012 either. So it's all, it's all over the pitch mix, right? It's all curveball, change up, slider, fastball. It's usually at all. One, you're going to throw 40% of the time. One's going to be 20%. There's going to be a mix, but we know a spoon. He's done his use every single coverage over the years. I don't see any reason why he would just stop using one of the other.

19:38Right there with you. I guess last thing for me on bam, so safely for move to the rest of the roster. What does this next evolution look like for him? I guess more so offensively as we talk about the pairing with him and Yoss, but in general, his role has shifted quite a bit over the past few years, just demiability is what makes him so good. But he's had to do a lot of different things over the last three years specifically. So like, what are you anticipating for him and he gets to this season? More change. I mean, the story of Bans and Tires career has changed every single year. He gets like 5, 10% better every year within the team. The person all around him on both sides of four, ask basically demands that he does something different because of who's around him. And for to his credit, he has always been willing to. And I think that's part of the story that gets missed with him sometimes because you look at the first couple months last year and the numbers were down a little bit, right? The shot profile was different. He was taking more jump. He's he added more threes to his game. And then, you know, people from outside will point to and say, well,

20:38yeah, okay, he's used to just the same as efficiency has gone down. So he's having a bad season with and we're not really leaving the space for the fact that this is the eighth ninth season in a row where his role within the offense has changed once again. And we can't just expect people to to adapt to that immediately all the time by snapping your fingers because, you know, some guys have offenses built around them, but BAM adapts to what the team needs. And I think that's a little bit of a different distinction to make with some other, you know, on ball stars in the league this year. I mean, when you have your honest team, you have to space. He's been at his best with a space in five with Brook Lopez with Miles Turner with Bobby Portis, whatever big is on the floor, if they can shoot at volume, that makes you honest better. Yeah, BAM did the work last year to increase that three point volume. If the efficiency hasn't quite caught up yet, and whether there's internal development there or not, we'll see. But if you can get up to league average or something, that would obviously be a huge boost to the offense. But yes, you do need to space.

21:41You don't also want BAM. You don't want him to be stuck in the corner or on the wing catching shoot because that's not taking the most advantage of all the things he can do as a playmaker, as a hub. So you want to be able to bounce back and forth between things. And then how much pick and roll interplay is there between those two guys? Because you know, Yoss ran a lot of pick and roll with Miles. But those are mostly pick and pops if you watch them all. There wasn't a lot of dive action with Miles there. Brook did dive a lot. There was a pretty good blend there, especially earlier in that pairings, you know, history. But Brook is also a bigger target. He eats up space and he, you know, with those big broad shoulders and he creates a pretty big catch radius. BAM is more of an in the air aerial lob catcher kind of a guy. So what is that chemistry between sort of the two main game that they can create? Because it's great to have two playmaking digs on the floor, but you want that playmaking build intersect at some point too. So again, it's going to be more change for BAM. He's always willing to change. I just think that part of the story should always be told because with chains, it doesn't always come, you know, effectiveness right out of the gates.

22:44It's just what the team needs him to do and he's always been going to do it. I am fascinated to see how BAM absorbs Yannis into what they want to do. Because BAM, as you said, has evolved. I can be a DHO hub. I can pick and roll. I can pop. But he's never specifically been one thing where the, like, this is all BAM does. No, he's added layers to his game. And aggressive BAM and a bio has always been fantastic for the Miami Heat. I want to see what this version of BAM on a bio does next to that person that is Yannis Hansen to CUMBO. And so, okay, does this allow me to be in more impactful in different moments for us offensively? Because we've seen them post up. We see the face up game. You've seen the drives and perimeter screen roll lob. Like, he, there was a moment where probably called BAM out of bio a lob threat. And just kind of call it a closure laptop. It is where it is. You can't do that.

23:45And that ended quickly. So he does so many things. He has layers on top of his office of game. So what do they look like together? Like, again, this is a fascinating team because you're going to have to deal with them in a way that I don't think you can anticipate in August and September. Because BAM is now not just going to be aggressive. He's going to be aggressive with another person who's aggressive. So if he honest drives kicks swing, it's a BAM drives. You haven't thought of that. Have you? What's that look like? How does that feel to a team? Who guards BAM? Who guards you? And it's like there's moments where I'm like in my head thinking, how do we kind of put this together? They both can be screeners. Like if you honest to screener on one side, you swing together and BAM to screen on the other side. How much fun are you having? You do in a default team switching and like, there's just things they can both do. Like you talked about inverted picking on with you honest earlier. They've been running inverted with BAM. So it's like, how can we like they can flip things in a way that I think is very interesting.

24:49But I think the next step for BAM, I feel like is like he just has a ceiling that just kind of keeps every year moving up. Not about production, but just like what else could I do? What else could I accomplish? What other kind of pressure I could have put on teams? That I feel like it's been the best part about BAM. He's never been fit into a box. Yeah, it's not going to be the October, November version of this team is not the version of this team. We're going to see in April, May and June. And it's going to be a process. No, everybody's made the example of when the big three come together this first few months. It took them some time. It took them some time even that first season to get to the next season. No, things take time. And I think, you know, they might come out and score 145 points in the first game. I'm looking credible. But what I want to see is what's the counter from the league? Once the heat show what they're going to be, once the heat show what their identity is going to be, what's the counter from the league? And then what's the counter that the heat can build from there? Because you have to build a very season in that way. And, you know, so for whatever they look, good or bad, great or not in October, November,

25:55this is a team that now you have your team that has championship aspirations. So you've got to go through the order a few times and see where you come out with at the beginning of playoff. I actually have one quick bam related free throw before we move to the rest of the roster. Yannis is in tow. Obviously, very good at basketball, more eyes on the Miami Heat, but also Yannis is very good at basketball. Does Yannis's presence help or hurt BAM's ability to win defensive player to you? Oh, yeah. So I have been very surprised that most of the prognosticain I've seen that Yannis has been a little bit higher than BAM and defensive player of the year predictions. My guess would be, you know, you can end up with a split vote sometimes at Hertz guys that there were times with Jimmy and BAM that would hurt them in all defense, you know, situations. But if Yannis is playing great in this team as one of games, Yannis is going to be in the MVP conversation.

26:55But I think if the defense is in the top five at minimum, and I think it could be better than that. By the way, if you have a top five defense, the average win toll for a team like that is 52 wins. So if the defense is in top five, I think we're going to have BAM in the conversation there. It's just every season, you know, for a long reason, we just forget he's not a big block and steal guy. And we have to sort of, you know, retell the story of BAM's impact in the defense event. If they do get very switchy though, I think that kind of plays into his narrative as well. But I just think it'll help because Yannis is going to help them become a top five defensive team. And ultimately, I think BAM will be, you know, one of the guys that is up there for defense player of the year for sure. We can guarantee between after the buzzer and the dunker spot podcast, the defense rebound display for BAM out of bio will be said on the airwaves and effort.

28:04To highlight the BAM D4K. Okay. And I'll see. Yannis was not the only big name addition to the roster, at least notable name addition to the roster. Clay Thompson now in the building. And I think everyone can point to the shooting impact that he's expected to have. Either directly or just what his spacing provides. The question I have for you, who is what is an area of Clay Thompson's game or skill set that people are underwriting that is also going to help this heat team? I think it probably is basketball IQ. You know, I just think he's playing. It's not an Apple's Apple system, but playing in that warrior system, the way you had to read your react and where you had to play instinctual basketball in that system and the way things weren't prescribed or preordained. If they go to back to what they ran last year, Clay's IQ and willingness to move out the ball, moving to the right spaces at the right times. That's going to be a huge boon for this offense because it sounds great to say, oh, we've got a guy who can shoot up the move. Let's run him off the flare screen and see what happens. But guys have to have the sense of timing.

29:04They have to have a sense of how to do that. And there aren't very many guys who've done that kind of complicated movement and so they over the then Clay over the years. So yeah, you're right that you don't. Clay is not just a standstill shooter. Yeah, he even you could space him out to logo and nobody's been watching. Gonna be the left Clay Thompson open in the film the next day. It's like back in the day when the Ray Allen would get open and you're like, how did you leave Ray Allen open for a game? Winter. Well, you know, when you have other great players on the floor, that's what happens. But I just think Clay is an incredibly high IQ guy. He's been one of my favorite players to watch over the years. Because just because of that, because he's so smart off the ball and, you know, there aren't very many guys who can have 60 off. What was it? 11 dribbles or something like that? He can be extremely impactful without needing to touch the ball very often. And that kind of a player fits into a roster like this with on ball guys with the guy who's going to be having use of three over 35 probably around there. You just don't find better fits in that. It's very reminds me a lot.

30:05Yeah, Ray Allen might have been more of an on ball guy when he came to Miami. They still ran some secondary, you know, tertiary, you know, picking roles for Ray and on those roster. But in terms of his overall impact on the team could be very similar. I'm fascinated by what Clay looks like in Miami and what spoke and do with what Clay could do in Miami with this specific roster. Because it's not just that he's efficient. It's okay. We can use them on ball off wall. We can open up the playbook in a different way. We can do some different things and he can have an impact that we didn't necessarily anticipate. So like I want to see. Like do you do you because Miami's had movement shooters in the past. Clay isn't necessarily a copy and paste of Duncan Robinson of Max Truce. He can be impactful in a different way. But if you have someone who can do those things, what type of things do you run? And so what kind of secondary action do you run? What kind of, hey, it's a pin down a stagger for Clay.

31:05Actually, it's not, you know, on the other side driving like I feel like he just kind of just expands the playbook a little bit. I think it's a good fit with like the compete level Clay wants to get back to. And the compete level is always going to ask of him. I feel like that's an underrated aspect of like, hey, we're both here for a reason and we got to get this done. So like, I've always loved the fit because he should be there because that's where he can have the most impact right now. In Miami, Miami, we think in the past. No, I like the fit as well. Like I think for me, to answer my own question, I'm excited to see what the usage of a screener is going to look like for Clay. How much are they going to have him standing off all stuff? How often is he going to be screening for Yannis or a band? Whether it's early offense stuff. If they go into any kind of Spain looks how often is he being used as the bad screener? Like I'm excited to see how they move him around in addition to just what he does as a shooter and as a guy that can relocate into different spots. And like one of the things that we talked about Steve, when we talked about Yannis actually coming to Miami,

32:09or really going back to the Clay portion, it's like if they do lean more into the switching, circling back to the early portion of the conversation, like Clay is not the same on ball guy. I think that is fair to say at the stage of his career. He is still a pretty strong dude. He is actually wing sized, what should aid in Miami being able to switch a little bit more comfortably. Even if they do decide we want to shave a little bit more help towards him or whatever. He's a strong dude that you're not just going to dislodge him with a dribble and now the guys at the right. And so like him being able to hold his ground in a literal sense should help that. In addition to like let's have him set and subscribe. It's like that part is going to be fun. So I think it's going to be hand in glove fit for what's supposed to do. I'm glad you made the playmaking point because Miami has had guys that cannot now spot up even last year. They had guys that shot well from three. They haven't had guys where it's like no we are flying you off of staggers. We are giving you option routes where you can go either side of the floor and just fly off and we trust that you'll be able to set your feet and get shots off. So like having that variability within the offense, I think it's going to be a lot of fun for them. Yeah, I think just to your point about Clay being strong, his isolation numbers one on one are better than a lot of people think.

33:13You know it's down towards like allowing sub 0.9 point for possession isolation that sort of stuff. So if that's what he can do is be really strong one on one then like you said, it's perfectly into a switching system. Actually, while we're in the world that well done off that kind of throw theory to both of you. Yeah, how do we feel about the tall ball line ups that Miami get throughout there? We don't we don't say who the best one is we don't do whatever it is, but like in theory if you have the honest and you have bam, right in theory you could also have size within those line ups you could have the honest man clay, wagons, insert, faiths, bursting. Do you think there's just a kind of like as Coop said earlier different pitches they could throw out there to where we have considered oh, that's right. This is a big team that could also beat you up in different ways like is that a thing in my brain or am I tripping?

34:14It's absolutely a thing. Bobby Porter. So obviously you got Nikola Yovitch who's got great size. There is a lot of size in this roster and at bare minimum I think to your point whether they go big or not this is going to be an incredible rebounding team. Because the honest is rebounding splits are just like bams where when he's on the floor to time five at minimum defensive quality rebounding team. So they're not going to be giving up a lot of second possessions maybe you know when you're in zone it's a little bit tougher but bigger or not they're going to be an incredible defensive rebounding team. And maybe when you go big then you become an awesome offensive rebounding team too if that's the direction they want to go. It hasn't always happened with Spote teams but there are years if you go back and look at the rankings over the years. Yeah oh here's the roster that really fit. So let's attack the offensive last more and create second more second chance points right next year might be gone and next year they have a different roster and might be back. So yeah go big. Yos it the three Bobby Porter is at the four. Bam at the five. We can set the two. You know Clay the one.

35:18Hound the offensive glass and you can still play fast with those guys and see what happens. Hey listen I was already excited for like heat spurs just off principle. That feels like a bachelor like hey let's let's try this out for like four minutes to close out the second quarter. Let's see what happens. And if it works we'll do it again in the third or like early four and if it doesn't then we just go back to our regular rotation. Like I'm excited to see what that part looks like. I'm glad that you are you are hammering the tall ball phase. I think we're probably going to see some elements of it in Miami. We're going to see it in Dallas. We're going to see it in a lot of different spots. I respect it. Look at me for me. I love off night. I love Dave Yolmichael. I think this is the perfect spot for him to do what he does defensively but also kind of have an ability to impact and grow offensively. But at the same time I'm kind of looking at this roster and boy there's some combinations that put together where hey Davey on you're not within the first like closing wise or different matchup wise.

36:22We can put the honest and Tim and Clay like we can put shooting but spacing gets to which we can there's a. I'm fascinated to see what they want to get to. I want to I do want to ask Koot though. Within the spoke context within the Miami context when you look at what a Tim Hardaway junior has put together when you look at what a Bobby Portish has put together. How do you feel about them now coming into this specific climate and what that could mean for them and what they can mean for the team? Yeah I mean I think those are probably two two the more underrated earliest quieter acquisitions that the heat made this year just because. You know you've got big names all famers in the awesome. And Clay that you also got. I mean I thought had a pretty good chance of being to starting to guard before climbing and maybe he still might be because he's got that movement shooter element to him. He played incredibly well of Yokech last season. It was obviously up there in six minute of your conversation and playing out of the honest you're still going to be getting used and that's it's different than playing with Yokech.

37:24But you're using it you're still playing off a guy that has that same sort of gravity on the floor and demands that same sort of defensive tension. And then Bobby is obviously played with the odds for years. Those two are just a perfect match. They always have a great offensive radio on the floor together and they both give great offensive personality because yeah if you want to if you want to say. And you can make this argument that there are some shot creation. No, maybe deficiencies on the roster and especially in and in certain kinds of shot create. And Bobby is a shot creator. You can run him against the mismatch and he can get you a buck in the post. No Tim Hardaway Jr. can be a shot creator in his own way playing off the ball. Like you said you can play Timmy and Clay together. Maybe go into the D.H.O. game with Bam. And also you've got two guys on the floor at the same time who can crisscross and run D.H.O. Those simultaneously are back to back on different sides of the floor if you get a ball reverses. So both guys create an element of something that the rest of the team doesn't have.

38:26Timmy and Clay kind of do similar things together. Bobby is something they don't have anywhere else really on the bench line up in terms of the mismatches. He can attack. But I think both are going to be huge additions for this roster. And people will grow to love them once the season begins. And they're like, oh yeah this guy is on our team too and he's pretty fun to watch. Both incredibly fiery competitors. The first time either one of the sports like an A-Doh run, that forces a time out and the crowd goes crazy. They are going to soak it in. That part is going to be fun. For me it's just largely going to be like especially when we get to like the marquee matchups and into the postseason. Just how well do they hold offensively? It's just going to be a natural question that I have for both. And so we'll see like how well they do individually what the infrastructure is going to be around them to make it easier for them to hold up. But if they are of the whole depot net end, you do get the offensive juice. Like Bobby Porter says shot the letter out the ball from three for the last few years at this point. Tim Hardaway Jr., we know what you can do. And you have a net kind of spacing around Yannis or just the supplement when he's off the floor

39:26and make offense a little bit easier when he sits. It's going to be incredibly helpful for Miami. I want to circle back to Davey on Mitchell very quickly. Because obviously we talk about like how Yannis is being imported into this. How that affects Bam out of Bion, somebody others. Davey on as this shifted to less screens, etc. He had a much larger isolation burden than I think people that aren't keyed in on Miami. Would expect. They needed his drives. They need some of the bully ball from him. What does he look like offensively within this construct? I think Davey on one of the most interesting cases on the team because yes, there were times when it looked like he was completely unstoppable. He would get a guy who's maybe a little slower footed and Davey on can cross him up really quickly again, the pain and finish with that floater and he's incredibly efficient. At those plays, his usage rate was also below 15% last year. It would seem really impactful, but it would also come he's very good at picking his spots throughout the game.

40:27Can he scale up that usage rate? Does he need to scale up that usage rate? I'm not sure how much he needs to get into above 20% usage because the team also needs him. To be a distributor, he's a great assistant turnover ratio. They're going to need that from him, but how much on-ball juice are they going to need him to add? Probably a little bit more 3.0 volume. I think that's fair. His 3.0 percentage has been much better in the past couple of years. The general public realizes, but it's also around three per 100 positions. It's not the highest volume that you're ever going to see. Can ramp up from there, especially taking the shots where you're open, but you're not wide open. You also get a lot of those shots where the defense is for a while, sagged off, Daveyon. I would sit there and say, well, are they using a scouting report from a year ago? These are knockdown shots for him. You just sit 10 feet back and let him shoot. He'll hit those. It's all a matter of how much he can ramp up, how much he needs to ramp up. Daveyon's a guy, I mean, you can say, guys live in the gym.

41:30This is the guy that wears his jersey out on vacation and he's carrying the ball with him. This is a real, I live basketball. He's kind of a guy. Guys work. He's like working when he's having fun, too. Anything that team needs from him, I think he'll be able to do. It's just, again, it's all about balance. Do you need him to ramp up to 25% usage, 20% at 18%, how much ball distribution do you need from him? Because the defense is going to be there. As much as we talk about switching, Daveyon's an incredible screen navigator, too. So maybe you can never tell us, we're then all surprised. We don't need to do that because Daveyon got around the screen. And we don't even have to talk to him into that. So he gives him a great versatility. It's just ramp up and how you kind of move the sliders up and down. Now, right there with you, I guess it quickly fits all of these important. Like, have you seen the videos of him at the gym? I think it was trade honestly to someone else. And he is just being incredibly rude.

42:30Hey, you saw the immediate dog off night. Yeah, it was fucking off night. But, mm-hmm, trade is like, hey, no, hold on, I got buckets too. Let me show my foot is that I got from my guys as well. But, though, like, that part's going to be fun. Another question I want to ask with the rotation, unless you have something to see. No, you're good. Keep going. Oh, okay. A prompt for you, Koop. Miami's season will be successful if Andrew Wiggins does what? Man, you know what? I think that's a pretty simple answer. If Andrew Wiggins is Andrew Wiggins. But he doesn't need to do anything other than what he is. And I think that's what makes Wiggs great at his own role. Because he's kind of bammaged in that way where he will move the sliders up and down based on what the team needs. He's happy to do it. Guy never complains. Never. He just, you know, he is incredibly consistent. Game one, game 15, 50, 82.

43:31That's what Wiggins brings to your team every, every, no, section of the season. You're going to get something consistent. Whether or not the percentages go up and down. He's been a great catch and shoot player recently in the past handful of years. So you know what you're going to be able to rely on him as a spacer, as a shooter. He fits their downhill, you know, transition game. If they try and keep that going again. I just don't think there's nothing really Wiggs can't do. And I call him, it's almost a disservice to him to call him a glue guy. But he's a very unique kind of a glue guy where he can be a literal, he can, you can run star actions, ask star things of him within a glue guy role. Now he can be the guy that fills in everywhere. But he can also fill in as we need two minutes of shot creation. Go attack this mismatch. So he's incredibly versatile. So all he really needs to be is Andrew Wiggins. He doesn't need to be anything more than that. It's just be the Andrew Wiggins that shows up. Same throughout the season and be the guy who just does what the team needs him to do.

44:32Because that's all this he needs him to do. I love that answer. I have no notes. That's good stuff. Not down shots. When post ups continue to defend that high level, I feel like he has gone underrated within the general NBA discourse at this point for what he can do defensively. Nailed the notes. Ramp what we need to. That's pretty much it on the Andrew Wiggins front. So excited to see what he looks like. Exciting to see him plus Davey on plus bam plus, he honest offensively is just going to be nuts. So whatever combination ends up being, I guess that would be one of my final questions for you, Cooper. What lineup are you most excited to see from this heat team? I would say actually, somebody we haven't talked about yet would be in one of his lives. That's Paul Larson. I think you can kind of take people probably soon that he's been dropping 30, 25, 30 again. Yes. Yeah. When he goes play with Sweden. And they're like, who is this guy? Because he still hasn't he hasn't quite made the full name for himself yet.

45:34But I think we're in for some pretty exciting things. That doesn't mean he's going to have, you know, a huge usage rate is going to be running pick rolls. He's not going to be playing like he did for Sweden. But Paul Larson has this downhill dig your shoulder and the other guy's chest. And that either gets you to the rim to a short floater or gets to the foul line. He's got he's got a great knack for using his physicality to grow into the paint and other gets the line or gets the cup. And I want to see how he can function in lives with BAM and YAS. Because if there's one thing that Pella hasn't really shown yet, it's how to be a high efficiency 3. shooter. It's been in the low 30s around the hub around 32%. You know, typically just as an example, when it was the Jimmy and BAM team, it was tough to run a third shooter, third percentage-wise below 35% with those three out there. You had to be really, really great defensively to kind of account for the spacing issues that you're going to have with how teams are going to play. So if Pella can ramp up, get that three-point shot a little bit,

46:34you know, into league average range, whether or not he can't, he's going to find a way to be effective. And because he's an incredibly tough guy's, no, he'd guide to a tee. But can he find ways to do BAM and YAS lives? Because if he can, then I think we're talking about a guy who can be in some closing line-ups too, depending on the matchups, depending on how the flow of the game is going. I'm really excited to see what Pella Larson can do. The guy, he came into league saying, I'm ready to be a role player. He had that level of self-awareness. He was pitching teams, pre-drafted. I'm a guy who's already a role player. I don't need to be anything else in that. And the irony of that is that he's got skills, I think, go a little bit beyond role player. And sort of the same way that I said with Wiggins that he can scale all in places that a typical 3-in-3 guy can't. So where can Pella fit into all these labs? Because there's a lot of versatility, line-up versatility on this team. You'll see which ones are the best spots for Pella Larson. All right. Koot, bring us on one word to the world on what they are missing with this Miami Heat roster going

47:40into this season. One word. That's one one's difficult. One word. Yeah. Let's go. Perimeter hyphen creation. Well, that's one word. Creative. I think. Yeah. Oh, I'm going to get it. Oh, I'm going to get it. I'm going to get my screen. I'm just taking a look up and down the offensive profile of this team. If there's one thing they don't have a lot of, specifically, it's 3-point pull-up off the jibble creation. That's they just don't have a lot of guys that do that at volume. Clay does that by a lot of his his pull-up shots that they get law-dissatched are like one dribble, you know, relocations or coming at one or two dribbles off the screen. There's not, you know, the 30-foot pull-up logo 3 guy, which is kind of the biggest cheat code in the league when you have a guy that gets pulled at the stretches defense out that far. So it's not necessarily that you need to have that on the team, but if you look at the offense, that's something that they don't have right now. They have different strengths with that front core combination,

48:45then with John's what he can do down hill. He's going to draw, but getting into the playoffs, that's going to be the biggest test for me as a team in the regular season. Once you get into playoffs, once you get into playoffs, style basketball, which I will always remind people, looks different in the regular season. How are they, what efficiency level are they going to build at the offense to get without, you know, that deep pull-up 3 guy, without that deep pull-up 3 creation guys, who are going to pull, you know, second defenders out to create 4 on 3 situations. And then how will they're going to be able to operate in space from there? Because, look, you don't need to be the best, if you're the best defensive team in the playoffs, you're top 3 defensive team in the playoffs, you can go win a championship. You don't need your offense to be number one in the playoffs as well, you know, but you do need it to be at a level where it gives you a chance to win games, that your defense is putting you in position. So that's probably what the one thing that they don't have right now, is a lot of pull-up 3 creation that can come from some internal development too, but to answer your short question with the long one, long answers to you, that's kind of what I got.

49:50Well done, well done, that's what we do, Koop. It is indeed what we do. The literal final question for you, Koop. What do you have coming up? What are you working on? Where can the people find you? You can find me at heat.com, all kinds of writing, all kinds of videos on YouTube. We got after the buzzer podcast, we got more coming this season. We got takeaways after every game, notebooks, features. We're trying to just everything that we can get out on the heat, whatever the right avenue, whatever platform is, if we are going to use it, and get the best heat content out there that we can. And I'm really looking forward to this season. I think personally, I'm excited for this season, not just for the heat, but for the entire league. We've got healthy stars, healthy teams everywhere. We've got an incredibly deep Eastern Conference, where you get to 49-50 wins. You might be able to win the Eastern Conference with that just because of how the depth of the competition will be. I want every team to be healthy. I want the best competition for the heat

50:51to see what it brings out of them all year. I'm incredibly excited, and we'll see what it brings. But yeah, it's mid-September 8th, and I'm ready to rock and roll now. Let's get to his next few weeks. So get over and done with it. Let's go. I love it. I love it. Tough league, tough east, tough southeast division. Thank you, Coup, for rocking wood. Thank you for spending your time with us. We're going to take a break from here. And when we return Team USA 3 and O, but they had an interesting back-to-back. We're going to talk through all of it and get into some older shout-outs. We hope you stick with us. And we are back with this episode of the Dunker Spot as we shift to the W-slash Feebo World Cup. Played Team USA coming off of a back-to-back, and it was an interesting set of two games. Steve, a 55-52 thriller against Italy, where they're working through some stuff on offense. We'll put it that way. We're going to get into it.

51:54And then they respond on Monday against Check-U with a 105-64 victory, I think 55 against Italy overall, 57 in the first half against Check-U. You want to talk about the offensive bounce back there. So just general question to get the conversation started, Steve. What were some of your broader takeaways from this two-game set from Team USA? I mean, I think when we last spoke about Team USA, we talked about this is what they can be. This is what they could be. This is what they should aspire to be. And then the reality of Italy came. And when you play an international play, you're going to get put into deep water at some point. You're going to have to swim. And so that was an important game for Italy to have to deal with that. Because you saw the high end of what Team USA could be. And then you saw the reality of what they have to do to get to where they want to go. And that Italy game, it was fascinating to watch. I know a lot of people were trying to figure out what's going on. It was the perfect game for this Team USA. In the sense that, hey, we're going to have to be able to sustain and figure these moments out.

52:55And the thing is for Team USA, the talent just keeps coming. Whatever lineup discourse exists, it's going to continue to exist. My thing is, each unit attacks in a different way. A defensive effort never really wins. And so they had an advocate scenario where they were not scoring, but hey, you're not scoring either. So how do we go ahead and figure that out? They had the physicality and size that they had to deal with in China. Italy gave them physicality and size on the perimeter. And then as that game progressed, you saw the impact that had, the impact that they're drives. So driving kick was now longer an automatic. Italy was able to work to contain, they were staying at home. They were able to meet them outside the paint. They were able to just kind of disrupt things. And I think that was interesting. As it went on, Italy started mixing that zone. And they started mixing that when they went into the zone, the man. And they were physical and it was disruptive at the start. It was disruptive to the ball team USA now. They got them deeper in the clock. Team USA wasn't quite sure where to start. Where to hit. Do we flash middle?

53:56Do we start the screen? Do we go in the post? And the other thing is like, they found a way, second quarter, team USA. And then the second quarter, no one talks about the turnovers they had in that second quarter. When they had a chance to really extend that lead, the turnovers just kind of kept it a little bit like a tennis match back and forth. And the problem is in international play, if you give a team the ability to breathe, you get them life, or if they're going to take it. So that's where it became, hey, as it goes on, what are, how are we feeling about this? How are we trying to figure out? Now you're now team USA is trying to figure out where to attack, who to go with, what our lineups are, who's working, what's working, and you get deeper and deeper in that game. And Daniela Sini is starting to make shots. And now everyone's starting to drive. Like the pick roll defense was pretty good, but also at the same time, El, Italy's able to turn in the corner. Oh, but dropped a late switch. Oh, we're looking to post up. If it's a small, oh, we're starting to get the rhythm,

54:56what you want to do. And the problem for team USA in that specific, Italy game is no one had it going. They needed one single stabilizer. And everyone, everyone tried. Hey, we're trying to know one. No one had their signature move in that game. Like, hey, post up, nope, not working. Although it was interesting, because they tried to stab shot certain points and they went away from it. That's the other thing. Pick roll, nope, not working, drive, nope, not working. Everyone gave an attempt. And now you're in this fight. Three is ill. An Italy team that is just like, oh, no, three is not, not again. An Italy team that has now gained confidence. And you're having to figure it out. So my biggest thing was the lesson they learned in that game was the one they're going to have to if they want to win this World Cup. But it was a good thing for them to have a night where we're defending at a high level, because we have to. Our offense, we can't score. We're in a real grinded out of fair. Hey, we got to figure it out.

55:57And shout out to the closing unit who did Chelsea grade, Jackie Young, Stewie. They all had big massive plays to get the relief 14 years. And so I felt like that was just a moment for them to have the full understanding of what this is. What did you think, you guys? Oh, boy, I think with the Italy game, I'm with you that it was one that they needed. It was fun to kind of watch them. And I tweeted half a ceaselessly at the end. That was fun, huh? But like to your point, they had to work through this because China was the mix of, as you said, a lot of size in the front court, but here's a whole bunch of zone. And we talked about some of the process of students on in that first game. We talked about them on Friday. Now you have the size of the perimeter where we can bother you, pressure you, mix in some switches. As you said, take away the drives. It's tougher to establish some things. So for them to be as resilient as they were in that fourth quarter and to ultimately find it, I think it was a positive. I think for me, it kind of highlighted just how important one, their defense, but also their ability to turn teams over how important that is for them

56:59in light of some of the ways that they have been bothered off the ball, which is a cavity through the early portions of the stage. And so they need to be able to force those and be able to push a little bit more. And in general, I think they have court tempo can be a little bit better as they try to work through stuff, even with teams trying to be physical with them. So that would be like one takeaway that I have, broadly speaking. But I was impressed with defense overall, Steve. Like we talked about the young and turn group on Friday. They didn't have it going either offensively. But you got big stops from Paige. You got big stops from Angel Steele. You had big plays from William Boston defensively. She just continues to work her tail off throughout this entire tournament so far. And so just watching to collect the defense of this as they mix in different coverages and try and find some comfort. I think that was a positive. And I think when you didn't have the balance back against Chepia where we are establishing our two front court stars or two of the many, but in Stewie and Fee, like two of who should be like your stabilizers when they have it going. And we still have this defense to lean on. It's a lot more fun.

57:59I'll go ahead. I know. I'm just going to say I think let's stay with where you were at with the defense. Yeah. The nuance is just as important as the effort that Team USA gave. And their ability to mix things in. So I still have question marks to the reader because I feel like you need to really hone in on this. It sounds wild. It's during Team USA has been great at defense. That's their mindset. Defense goes to offense. They've been fantastic. But this World Cup has just put me into the the psychopath lane of taking notes and noticing things and there's no way I can go back now. So it's like, okay, what little things are going to just kind of be something you need to keep an eye on. The nuance has been fantastic as far as being able to mix in drop, late switch, fight over, unders, when you need to. Like that, what they have done with that defensively is not easy. And they have been able to sprinkle that in throughout the contest. And you saw it in the fourth quarter in Italy.

58:59Obviously, I can say to you that that was just something they kind of were able to do because of the comfort of the game. But that's so important because they're going to have to have that as their foundation, no matter what. But being able to kind of be able to trust that they will be in the right spot at every moment, late in that game in Italy was so huge. That was able, that was the thing that was able to stabilize them and get them going. And so you use for angels activity, pages activity, but like, there was a possession of the early game where Stubi and Jackie Young just had a new wants of I'm switching, the switchback, switchback, and they had a steal off of it. And it's like that you're not, that's not normal. That's not something you're supposed to be able to do coming off like four days of being together. I think that's the first thing you have to take away, right? Like there's a level of comfort they're trying to find. And like it's not, this team is not practicing together. It's they're closer to playing against each other than they are than they know. So it's like, they don't necessarily know what their bread and butter is to be this good defensively speaks volumes. To the, to the, a treasure game,

1:00:00I'm curious to see what stood out to you in that one. Because you mentioned that the young, the turnt crew didn't have it going in. Yeah, you mentioned it. Everyone's talking about the starting lineup. It looks a lot better wins, do we make shots? It looks a lot better when the piece of collier makes shots. Let me tell you, it looks a lot better when you get the young, which shaperones lineup out there. Come on. So how have you felt about the evolution of this rotation? Because it's been a lot of the talking points. But like, hey, you don't have a lot of practice time. I need to figure out what combinations work together. And I like having charted a lot of these. Hey, they're not long stints. 10 minute quarters. Things go quick. Get in. Do what you do. And let's see. So how have you thought about the evolution there? Where are you out with it? And yes, young with shaperones is the thing. I got the shirt. Really, you should have worn the shirt. If that was okay. I like, well, that's a lot.

1:01:01That's that is tough. That is tough. Okay, and I'll seriously, I have been fascinated by the rotation. Because I think just the start, the whole ordeal, there has been a very clear. Here's the bedroom group that we start with. We mix into youngsters. The veterans come back. We get to game two and it's like we start with the veterans. Here's some of the youngsters doing a little bit more mixing and matching. Let's have some fun. Third game feels like more of the mixing and matching. So for me, it's just like because of how short the stints are. I would like to have just larger samples just how to get a feel of things. Like I have lineups and things in my head that I would like to see together that I think would fit. But it's just like there's only so much time. And if a game goes a certain way because like trying to games a blow out, Italy was very tight. And then check your games a blow out. So it's just like I don't even know how real any of this is from like, they were plus six in this like that kind of thing. So it's like, I don't know how to get that far. Go ahead. You're going to have to lock in. There's no large sample size to be had here, buddy. You're not getting that. It's not happening. So we got to lock in here real quick.

1:02:01So I think the thing that I would say, just I'm going to throw the ball right back to you. It's been interesting to kind of see the concepts. Again, it's fire and ice. So you can complain about, oh, the starting lineup shouldn't get it it the tempo was so much better. When the young team is in that starting lineup is there to absorb the blow. Whatever the team is trying to do against us, that unit is there to take take the hit. All right. So how are they guarding post-ops? How they guarding picking role? What are they trying to attack? We're here to absorb that. Yeah, we got Chelsea Gray, Jackie Young, Collier Copper, Brienne Stewart, and and if he's Collier, we're going to take the hit and see where we need to move. Now, because we've done that and you know, it helps when they make shots and now you can hand the ball off to the young and turn crew. The young and turn crew is going to come in and like, yep, we're going to play that defense and pace and tempo and we're off.

1:03:01So when you say, hey, they're playing so much better, you feel that impact because there's a fire and ice aspect. There is something that they do differently that helps elevate them. So you want a wave, right? You want a wave of, hey, go, well, they're playing so slow. No, they like, they have to figure out what they want to run with that starting unit at times. But yeah, they want to keep Caitlin Clark and Pagebackers and Alia Boston and Ryan Howard together. That's just the reality that we've seen over three games. They want those four to play together for a chunk of time. So for that to happen, okay, we got to kind of have this unit play together and now we get to boom, we're off. Hand off. Now the thing, the funny part is, it's interesting. There's so much lineup discourse after the Italy game, so much of it. And the answer was, all right, well, let's just mix the bigs up. Hey, Stewie, you can play with them for a little bit. Alia Boston, you play with them a little bit. We'll just switch things around.

1:04:02And so, we have to have enough data and understanding going into the knockout rounds to know, okay, can I go with this when we need this? Because every team is so talented, every team presents a different challenge and you never know what you're going to need. Like, you're kind of locked into Ryan at the three. Because if you don't remember against Italy, there was a moment where they put Ryan at four, and it was like, post up. Well, love this for us. We're posting you up immediately. And they didn't stop. And it was like, okay, well, that might not be it. So you're going to have your bigs, which bigs to play with who. But, you know, if Caitlin's going to play with Paige, then yeah, if Caitlin and Paige and Ryan are going to play together, yeah, you're going to have this disparity because you're trying different, like, toggle different things. When it works, it looks fantastic. And it's tough. I get it. But like, that's the idea. Like, I want y'all to know, like, as a coach, you need everyone to play well. Your whole idea is for everyone to play well.

1:05:04So you're trying to set everyone up for success. I think you underestimate how hard it is to develop a rotation when you have 12 of the greatest players on the planet. And I'm trying to figure out how to put them in a position not only to play, but like, have success and be themselves. So how do I kind of measure that out? How do I put that together? And we haven't had practice times. Like, we have go-to sets for, okay, we're running this, this, and that. They're playing zone. We've gotten better at it. But yeah, this is our practice. These are our reps. So keep that in the back of your mind when you're kind of trying to figure out, oh, no, no, no, this is hard. And it's not, I appreciate you for sharing that perspective because I think it is important. And I think, again, like, there is room to talk about, hey, X player needs to play better within certain lineups, etc. But the concept of the lineups themselves, it's pretty clear, if you are paying attention. Like, this is the wave effect that you have talked about,

1:06:06that you talked about on Friday, that we talked about earlier this year, when we were ahead to qualifying games. This is what they want to get. This has just been Team USA basketball. Like, here's the group that we want to establish things. We can mix into younger ones behind that. And if they're playing well enough, they can close. But ultimately, like, we want to have this wave effect. So like, understanding that, I think it's very important to even beyond any frustration that you may feel while watching, just to have a better understanding of what's going on. I think that part is important. So I appreciate you sharing that. Now, with that, Chelsea Gray big plays in the fourth quarter against Italy. She has not had her best stretch of games overall. I think that's fair to say. Same thing with Collie Acoper. Has had moments when important drives. But it has not played as well as you would like her to. Like, in sparing to say, there's room for better without, well, this lineup is dumb. Like, there is a middle ground, I feel. If we're talking about just the discourse, that can be found when it comes to this stuff. So like, I have seen a lot of the tweets that you have. Even I'm just like, I feel y'all, but also.

1:07:06And they're still winning. So like, you know, I get it. I get it. And I think the other thing you want to, like, if you want to talk about it, it was interesting to watch them kind of evolve. And in game three, they established the post early. And you saw it opened up. So it's like, yeah, it's do we play well, feet played well, but it was we're throwing it in. Doubles are going to come, whatever. We're going to attack in a certain way. So we establish our post players. We get them in rhythm. We establish kind of the ability to kind of play and make the defense get in rotation. And now we play off of that. And I thought that was interesting because they played well. Now you kind of have something you're hunting, right? Like, there's no, like we're doing this. We're going to play out of it. That's fine. There was an emphasis there. And then now, okay, kick out rotation. We can drive a little bit more. We can get some threes up. But then now you add pick and roll to like on top of that as a layer. As opposed to pick and roll is going to open up things for us.

1:08:07No, no, no, no. You saw kind of like the comfort after the post ups were hitting where Caitlin and Paige were just kind of able to operate in a different way. I'm intrigued to see kind of what they want to do offensively and who they want to highlight. Because I think it's the most important thing was to have Stewie and Fee in rhythm. But within different lineups and what that can do going forward. Because they're going to have to just figure out, okay, what do we want to run? What do we want to establish in this specific game? What do we want to do as our base? But I thought their ability to kind of establish the post was huge in that game. No, it's good stuff. Like they immediately went to like a high low with Stewie and Fee to open that game. It was like, okay, well, here we go. And as you already alluded to, ask some of the doubles came as they floated to zone as well. Play all, no, we can get to the middle. We can have someone lurking the baseline. We can find some stuff. So there's a lot of fun there. I guess why we're kind of in lineups in combination land. I will just ask you,

1:09:08do you think, I think I know where you are, but just to get it on film, do you think this is just a matter of more practice time? They just have to play better in some aspects. And this is just kind of what the rotation and the being. Or do you think we will actually get like a starting line-up change at some point as we get into like the quarter finals and things like that? I mean, maybe depending on the matchup, but I feel like, considering I've tried my best to like track every lineup change and every sub, that group that starts is probably absorbing the first four minutes, right? So I don't know if we're going to change that two degree. There's over in the first three, four minutes. I think that's for a reason. So I guess depending on like if there's a specific matchup, the problem is like, you got two bigs, you got guards, it's like, it's easier to let them be warm at the start and let them go than to now shift someone out. So I don't know if we'll see that extreme change. We may say an earlier sub, if that makes sense? Because I don't know like what specific matchup would change,

1:10:10teammates say not one to have fear of stewie out there, not one to have caught or Jackie out there. And I want to have Chelsea be out there. But in my brain, I'm just like, I know you have combination that you want to get to. I think the interesting part would be, okay, who's the first sub? How long's the first sub out there? Like the thing about the game is, especially it was like stewie was out early. But then stewie came right back in. So it's like, okay, I think that's kind of the bit a little bit. Like I think the guard group and the guard teams are going to play together two degree. So it's just like, Caitlin's usually going to play a page two degree. And Ryan's probably going to play with them too. So I think there's just maybe one of two of them to come in early at some point. But it's just like, I'm not sure. It's, I don't think there's, it's a little bit static too. A degree. Okay. Like I think for me to answer my own question, I don't think we're going to get a starting lineup change. I can be wrong on that. Of course, I am not on the staff.

1:11:11But I don't think we're going to get that. I think if we do see it, like you did mention, like Ryan's kind of pigeonhole in the three groups specifically, which is how the roster is constructed. And like, I'm just kind of anticipating. We're probably not going to see much of the mistakes in the rotation. These in terms of like multiple stands longer, stents, et cetera. And so like, do we eventually get the Ryan, Kaliakopper swap? Like that is one. And I think to your matchup, dependent point, if they do just want to size up at all, like this has been a shake year, three game stint for fee, though she was very good on Monday. Do you then go with like a Leah Boston for a specific matchup, just to have a true center to start a game? Like, those would probably be like the two spots out. Be look at it. I mean, I think Ali is on the trust. You see who she plays with when she comes in. She was dependent on heavily in that heavily game. I think that was huge. So I think, again, that's a trust aspect that you have. The thing with the fee scholar, I know you were tapping that button,

1:12:11raising the people's eyebrow, et cetera, et cetera. The only fee, the only thing fee has to do is stay aggressive. I think there is an adjustment as far as fee is hitting hard, fee is trying to get deep seals, fee has space. The problem is the difference is once fee catches, and because of how teen years days kind of looking at the post and staring it down, another person arrives. And so I thought one thing the fee scholar did well in the game, three was being aggressive, but also, okay, if I get this post up, I gotta go quick. Like fees kind of have, counter fee, fee has a patient game. fee has footwork. fee is able to go to work in and make you pay, and they don't want you to do that. So when fee gets a catch, like she's working at deep seals when you watch, but if the ball isn't there on time, and she has to hold it by the time that she gets it, someone else is coming to arrive, and now like that same dribble move fade or whatever, hit you real quick, doesn't have the same impact. So I thought it was impressive to see her go,

1:13:13okay, I gotta go quick. Catch fade away. It is what it is. Let's see what it goes. So they're gonna need fee. Like I think that's the biggest thing. You're gonna need all of them. And so you mentioned the mistakes. I tell you what, they've not been afraid to throw Sony a C-tron out there. And Kiki, when Kiki gets out there, it's go time. It's go time. That's nice of me. We hurt. We hurt. We hurt. We hurt people. Hey, give me the ball. Like they, I heard Jackie had the one possession where Kiki was like, oh, you about to shoot. And Jackie was like, nah, here's the ball. And they had to turn over. Next time down, Kiki was like, ball. And give me that big. So Kiki, like, like it's hard. I gotta wanna say Kiki's gonna be a secret weapon because you got so many tremendous bays. But like, when Kiki's been out there, it's been go time. Like I'm gonna hit you. I'll do what I do on defense. It is what it is. You gotta deal with me. It's going to be so interesting.

1:14:14Also, it's also, so she's also been like, hey, whatever you need me to do, it's great. I'll play defense. I have whatever it is. Yeah, I'm the last person that scored whatever. I'm here. I'm here to hoop to see. I'll do whatever. So yeah, we'll keep an eye on. I am fascinated. I guess just generally with the Garg Group Lucky and I don't, a lot of conversations around Will Chelsea Holders starting spot. I think she just will. You just want the processing there. If you do make a change there at all, I feel like Paige has been the best two-way guard of the group, considering Jack and the Wing Group, and she's been good. But like, Paige has just been fantastic. And then obviously, if you want to bring Caitlin in, who has been sprinkling in dime after dime after dime after dime, and then she is just the injection of pace. If that is the thing, then you can also go there as well. But again, I don't anticipate a star line of change at all. We'll see as we get into the weekend of things. That is where I'm at with the team USA portion. Three in a, and look, yeah, they're three in a, but here's the thing, you got to deal with France.

1:15:15I was just about to ask you. Is there any shout out you want to get into? The closes out. It's who we, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, the funny part is all this line of discourse between USA and France we have in the same type of way. Do you like do you understand, right? France is so talented. So, so talented in the cars. But I'm sitting there, and we're looking at like, I'm scrolling. I'm seeing everyone on that team USA. But Carla late came in like late in the first quarter. Late late late in the first quarter. And I'm sitting here like, as a team, you dealt with label of a con, you dealt with marine, you dealt with Pauline, USDA, and then here comes Carla late with like, I mean, it left in the first quarter. And then also, here comes Dominic Malonger. I'd say don't just go about the bench.

1:16:17That's that team has a wave element of talent. They got size, they got physicality, they got different units. They get affered on defense. They rotate, they protect paint, they fly around, they let it fly from three. They let it fly from three. They let it fly from three. So you see more of the oak. Like you're feeling okay defensively, right? Because I get a fancy, you know what I mean? Okay, we can deal with Gabby. We can deal with Genelle Salon. That's we'll figure out label of con. And then here comes Gabby and it's Leyla and it's now it's marine. And now it's you're dealing with a different type of team. And it's hard to feel comfortable against them. And then once you feel okay with that, here comes Dominic Malonger. And here's Pauline, USDA. And then once you feel okay with that, here's Carla late. So there's just pressure they put on you. They won't like they. It's stylistically hard to deal with what France is presenting. And I'm very intrigued to see how they handle that. Like they're on a mission.

1:17:18It's very clear. They want to take the label of we can't win the big one off the table. And like they play different styles, different moments. Like they're always in the building to let it fly from three. But you you're working on drives or working off of movement. Now you got to deal with marine and osteo and pick a role. It comes Carla late. You still have to always do a gabby and salon, Leyla Khan. Like and Dom is just kind of hovering around as this ever-present thing. I can do everything. So it's just like watching them play has been so dynamic because there's just a confidence in a mindset that they have. So I want to make sure I get France their flowers. May I meet? So no, well done. I was just going to say one, they are so devastating in transition. And like a lot of that is baked into all the different looks that they can toss out defensively. The ball pressure they can mix in. Like one of the things I'm most fascinated by with their decision to continue to bring Dom off the bench is that they are smaller technically

1:18:20but like they seem stronger and they're more active. And so like they're switching really hits against teams. It's like, oh, well, where exactly do we go? And then if you do try to sprinkle in a pick and roll towards the top line, jump in you either and it's like, okay, what do we do? Because if Gabby's not directly involved, she's lurking on the weeks out somewhere and that becomes a thing and now it's turn over city. But because they can bother you so much defensively, here comes all these transition drives. Here are all these kick outs for threes. If you do stop the initial attack, well, here's now's the pick and roll. And because of the fours that they have, you may think, cool, let's just switch. Let's keep everything in front. Janelle so long will beat you up on the inside. And because like her and my everybody are both like very good at slipping against screens, you can still get two on the ball in a way. And they've done a really good job of making plays out of short role opportunities on top of that. And so then you bring in Marine and Dom along off the bench. And now, okay, cool. It is now just pick high pick and roll time. What do you want to do about it? Teams just aren't having fun.

1:19:20And just the close things out to you. France three. Leading people work up late in points. They're shooting 67% on twos. They're shooting nearly 49% from three. The high watermark being that game against Nigeria, where they made 22 three pointers. And that one, nearly 27 assists per game, nearly 14 steals per game right now. Gabby Williams has been incredible. And she's draining over half of her threes to start. Rene Ahana is also bombing away from three right now. You already mentioned the label of the con drives and the play making that she has. Carla Leigh get down hill when you need her to. Like they have just been incredibly fun. So as we bring this back to like the team USA context. It's probably good that you've had to deal with less less the zone portion of this, but like some of the off-off physicality, some of the switching, some of the ball pressure. Because if you do match up with France, you're going to have to deal with all of that. You don't have to navigate that portion. And it's good that your defense has been as long than it has been so far. And that you have shown to your points, the comfort and nuance. And not just being an automatic switch or automatic drop.

1:20:21We can mix in some different looks. Because France can attack in so many different ways. And half court before you get into, again, to transition goodness that they've displayed so far. You need that nuance. So you are ready to rock and roll. And so I'm with you. France has been incredibly fun. So I feel the release their power rankings. They are the world right now. Rightfully so. It's going to be fun. Like I think we're going to look at this. Like over the next two days, we're going to figure out who qualifies for the quarterfinals outside of France, Belgium, Spain and Team USA. But like it's going to get interesting because like, like Italy, Australia and Spain are in the same block. And so that's a fascinating. One of those three teams will end up potentially facing Team USA. If Team USA can deal with Dorka Uhas and Hungary or, you know, I mean, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, like, and I get this done. So like it's, it's fascinating. Like, France might have to deal with like Puerto Rico scrappy like Hanzu is Hanzu's been absolutely the ball in this

1:21:26service. She's first of all with 14. Man look, Italy was upset. They lost to us. And hot zoo said, awesome. Would you like to deal with me specific? Oh, so it's like it's going to be fun. It's going to be fun to watch how this progresses. Oh, I think I think the court of like we're getting to the popcorn matchups as we're like, I think that we're getting to the chicken. We're getting to what's going to be very important here going forward. So I'm fascinating to see what it looks like. And I think for Team USA, it was good for them to kind of have the sandwich not to bring about to them, but like, hey, we can do this. Ooh, we have to do this to avoid this. We can also kind of figure things out. So teams play better. They'll be in a good shot. Can't wait to see what looks like. It's been very fascinating. I've become a absolute psychopath back into like coach frame, take like the amount of notes I have. I gave you all like half of them. I don't. I keep going if I want to

1:22:28do it. But you know, that's not that that is fair. That is fair. I guess just the tent to literally close this without Steve. I'm glad you had the friends shout out. Just wanted to quickly say, uh, Emma Mieseman still very much has it as she has been hooped this entire run. And so I'm excited to see what that part looks like there. I'll let you find a Puerto Rico. Um, I need staff for the money McGee staffers, excuse me. Absolutely. Monster on the offensive glass, the finishing has been there, the defense has been there. And I remember we talked about this. I think during one of the qualifying matches. Uh, I'm a big fan of Trinity San Antonio. Like, I just don't know where to score and ultimately lands. Though she has been very efficient so far. But she drives. She play makes in the defense. It's nuts. You cannot dribble near her. You cannot pass the ball near her. She's actually five steals a game through this three game strengths. Steve is I'll be keeping an eye on what happens with for it with the Puerto Rico matchup. That kind of want to see them advance. So I just wanted to get that one in. What's up? You've been locked in,

1:23:29huh? Why you look at it me like that? Don't be fooled by the rock. That I got. You know, on that note, thank you for listening to and or watching this episode of the Dukes 5. Please subscribe. If you haven't already, we're on Apple Spotify of RIP Google Stitcher pod being revigate your podcast. You can find us. Subscribe to the Yahoo Sports main YouTube channel. That is where I W slash people work up content lives. Subscribe to the Yahoo NBA YouTube channel. That is where the NBA content lives. Follow me on socials at the Kai's NBA. Follow Steve on socials at Steve Jones 20 and with that, we will catch y'all on Friday. He leaning back.