Colin Kaepernick beyond the headlines. Beyond the jersey. Beyond the kneeling, Colin shares his story behind the man who created a movement not just in football but in the world.

0:00Band-Dool is now available everywhere in the U.S. So you can get in on the sports action no matter where you are, including these places. May this year most rewarding season ever with Band-Dool. Agent location restrictions apply. Product availability varies by market. C-FanDool.com for eligibility, gambling problem called 1-800-Gemma. It feels like we've learned more about Colin Kaepernick over the last two weeks than we ever have before. The normally quiet former quarterback has had plenty to say as he releases his memoir, The Peralace Fight. We knew why he took a knee, but we knew far less about the man who made the decision to do so. The childhood that shaped him, the fraternity that molded him and the woman who helped educate him. It all led to a moment that would become etched in history. It started with a rose tree, an incident that he couldn't even share with his family.

1:01Then came a formative fandom of Alan Iverson and Randy Moss. And finally, the biography of Malcolm X. We talk young Colin. We tell super-bowl stories. We relive why he took the knee and how he felt that message got hijacked. And maybe most importantly, we talk about the man he is today. He was a husband and the father. This was a conversation long overdue and we're excited to finally have it. So please welcome Colin Kaepernick to The Pivot as he releases his memoir, The Peralace Fight. Man, this is probably one of our most important shows to date Colin Kaepernick, man. Welcome to The Pivot.

2:01It is truly an honor for me. This is Channing Crowder, Fred Taylor, Pivot Femme. Thank y'all for pivoting with us. I got an interesting tidbit for you. First off, what number were you online? Oh, six club. Six club. All right. Yeah. So I know that your line name is Kryptonite, right? Minus Clark Kent. So the entire time I was online, they would always be like Superman. Because you know, they get mad if you actually know the knowledge. You know what I'm saying? Because they try to get after you. Oh, yeah. And so they make it fun to meet Superman. You want to know everything. And so then when I finally crossed the Bernicens, I was Clark Kent. So I thought it was cool to read. Oh, that's amazing. That's so. Line name was Kryptonite. I actually got Kryptonite for the same reason. Yeah. Because I always knew the knowledge. And it was like, you're never going to break. So it was like, I was Kryptonite to them because they could never get what they wanted out of me. That's right. Yeah, sir.

3:01They're looking at him. Look, he always gets. No, tell me you're doing that, can't you? There's still time. There's still time. There's still time. Yeah. Well, man, Colin Kaverdett, man, the perilous fight, man. You finally get an opportunity to release your memoir. So many people are interested in not only the story of the last ten years, but what made the man that was willing to take a stand? I mean, you start here just even at the beginning of the book. And I thought the story was just so interesting. Just to be growing up and walking down the street and have the incident you had with the road street. Right. And so now you are experiencing something that you might not necessarily know how to quantify at that time. Tell me a little bit about your experience with that and what you took from it. Yeah. So, you know, giving some of the context around it. You know, at the time I was about eight years old.

4:01And, you know, this is some of the time you're on the street, you're playing. You're constantly looking for what's next and doing that in a predominantly white community. Like, that's what surrounds you. And I'm walking home as the street lights are starting to come on. The sun's setting. It's like, I got to start making moves. And I see a few of the kids at the house on the way home. And there were kids I was just playing with. But they were a little bit older. I didn't know them like deeply, but they're part of neighborhood kids. So, like, no, I'm seeing them around and playing with them. I'm like, are you still playing? Like, we got another game going on. I'm looking for the next competition. And there was a moment that was, this vibe shifted. And they run up on me. They grabbed me.

5:01Tied me to a rose tree. And, in that moment, I didn't really know how to put that in perspective. Especially growing up in a white family, being adopted into a white family. Like, that wasn't a conversation that's happening at the household of, like, you need to make sure you look out and protect yourself. And that was the first moment that was, how does this change how I move forward? How does this change my understanding of where I fit within society? And then also the realization of, as I'm running home after being able to get out, is when the neighbors drove by and the car and was like, hey, what are y'all doing? Didn't pull over, stop or anything. Just like, hey, what are y'all doing? All right, let me keep moving.

6:01And, you know, in sprinting home, the realization, too, of, can I even tell my parents this? Like, will they believe me? Like, how would they think about it? And ultimately, didn't tell them. But, I think it becomes an important moment because one, it gave me experience and context that I didn't have previously. And you never want to go through a situation like that, but it's informative. The other part is, it also made me realize, I'm never going to get got like that again. Like, you're not going to catch me slipping. And then, looking at it in retrospect, is also just thinking about in relation to, you know, street lights coming on, sun going down, and the history of sundown towns.

7:01Well, it's on. Like, now having that historical perspective, thinking back to that moment, is how much worse that potentially could have been. But it does help inform perspectives about how you move forward, how you think about community, how you think about safety, and making sure you're navigating things appropriately. And a perspective around having to navigate something that you know others will never have to navigate. Like you said, in retrospect, you were a biracial man. But I always joke about myself. I'm biracial too. Black and white, just like you. If I rob a bank, they'd not say it a big white man took my money. They'd say it a black man took my money. So you are a black man. Being raised by a white family, my mom's white. As I look back, it was kind of identity thing. You know, trying to find that identity, I think it was harder for, so they look at us, and then our mom walks in, and it's kind of the, that kind of thing.

8:01Did you think, as you look back at your childhood, you think it kind of, it was hard to find your identity with those dynamics going on? What's interesting, I guess, this question a lot. And for me, the identity piece wasn't hard, because it was so explicitly different. Like, there wasn't white mom, black dad, like biologically there is. But in my house, it was my entire family's white. So there was no hiding, like, oh, what side of family do I identify with? It's like, oh no, you're the black kid. Like, whether, you are consciously thinking about it or not, you know it within your family, you know it within the community you're in, and that becomes very apparent. The part that became more difficult is, where do you find community and culture that aligns with who you are? And that was something that, within a family,

9:01within a terlot, like, you just not getting that. Like, I think terlot, at that point in time, was, I think it was one to three percent black. So our high school, our high school football team had three black people on it. Just like that. Like that. That's it. I'm not sure. No. We are good. We, in the neighborhood. No, we're in the neighborhood. In the area. In the area. We, one gave away from a section title. Right. But we were the team that was, our offense aligned, I averaged somewhere between 180 and like, maybe 200 pounds. But we ran a winged tee. So it was like, execution. Yeah. Execution, execute. But it was, a running back was black. We had DB and receiver that was black and me. And that was, it's what we had. All the time. So that's fantastic. And that's all the same. All the positions, don't. Yeah. Still positions. And two of the three of us went on to play college.

10:02Right. Running back went to Fresno. But it, I said, say just to paint the picture of like, you don't, for me, I didn't have a lot of mentors around me. I didn't have other, other black men around me that I could really look to in that way. I had a few that were, were coaches as I got a little bit older. But having to navigate. Understanding your culture and being different. Within it is like, you know, you have to find spaces to make sure that you own that, maintain it. And that's a constant battle. Because there's a constant push to be like, well, yeah, you're black, but you should, you should act and operate the way we do. And it's like, yeah, but that's not who I am. That's not my reality. Yeah. And the other piece of it is too, it's, you know, we deal with this so much as gender becomes a thing. It's like, you're telling me that, you know, it's a thing, it's like you're telling me to operate as you do.

11:02I don't feel what you feel, right? What, what seems natural and authentic to you isn't to me. And so I could just only imagine being young and not having someone else that is showing those signs of who they are that matches with you or resonates. That's difficult. Sabra, have you seen Clay Matthews? I'm talking new and improved. That's a maxed face, biceps, swole up, and number half implants. She already knew I was shorts if I had some of them. All right, see there, man. Definitely has some work done. You know what I was doing? Seezer Sports Book. Man, you got to check it out. Better design, rewards, and I'm telling you, great ways to play. I love the Flex Parlage. You're still alive if you miss a leg. And you know I love the injury protection. If your player exits before half time and does return, they got you covered. So bet with Seezer Sports Book. The app that's been nipped and tucked to perfection. You must be 21 years older to play with Seezer Sports Book

12:02and remember, betting should always be fun. If you or someone you know struggles with gambling problems, help is available in every state where Seezer's operates. You can call 1-800-Gamber or 1-800-MyReset for Assistance. In Massachusetts, call 1-800-327-5050 or visit gamblinghelpline.org and in New York, call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY that's 467-369. Please play responsibly. I want to stay here just for a moment. And I know we'll eventually get to, like the meat of everything, but it hurts me knowing that someone at the age of eight you know, have to deal with something as traumatic as being tied to a rose tree and not having an outlet or not feeling comfortable to be able to speak about it with your white parents.

13:03Just another excerpt from the book. You said you would have to deal with the aftermath by yourself. You didn't know it yet, but you was building the very specific scar tissue scabs that will heal over time and turn it to an armor, being different, being uncomfortable with your difference, being comfortable with discomfort. Those were traits that one day would serve me well. Kind of speak to why you didn't feel comfortable in that moment discussing that thing that was so traumatic with your parents. Yeah. To kind of paint the picture of this, it was actually in recent years I was talking to my mom and she shared a story when I was about three years old. In the front yard, I run around with my sister, one or a couple of her friends, we're in Wisconsin, we're running around chasing me in the front yard,

14:06and one of the friends goes, oh, get the little nigger. And it was like, oh, hey, stop it, we don't say that. And that was the end of it. But I say and say, the environment was always like, well, we don't talk, we don't really need to talk about it, we don't need to address it. We know you're black, but we don't need to go much deeper in that. Which creates an environment that's like, well, do I get to show up as my full self all the time and do you understand that? And then having an incident like that, where white kids tie you to a tree, they call you a nigger, walking back into the house, if I come back and say that, what's your response going to be? Are you going to fight for me in that situation? Are you going to defend me, or is that going to be something that's like, oh, it was, you know, just move on from it?

15:07And for me, that's based in feel comfortable to be able to go back and have that conversation and feel confident that, you know what, you're going to have my back, you're going to fight for me in this way, specifically when it came to race. There are other things my parents knew they were fighting for me, and defend me, and love me. But when it came to my blackness and how that showed up, there was always a space that there was contention around. And I think that dynamic creates a space where, I'm going to have to deal with this by myself, and I have to navigate it by myself. And I think it speaks to some of that piece of, like, you build the armor, you build a resilience around it, because you have to navigate and deal with it so frequently, that that becomes part of your own resilience, that becomes part of your own, in my case, I look at as part of the strength. Like, you have to deal with and overcome things that other people don't have to,

16:07and you build the resilience around it. So you had to hold that blackness within and hold it close until you got to Nevada, being able to integrate with the brotherhood of Kappa Alpha, and then be able to learn the historical, I guess, dialogue of that blackness. Well, there was, you also get some of the broader interactions of blackness, which, I mean, some of that comes through media, some of it comes through music, some of it comes through athletics. Now, I talk about some of the people that I looked up to, and AI and Randy Moss, Kangriffy Jr., but in looking back, I also realized part of the reason they resonate so much, was because while they were being criticized for who they are, they stayed true to themselves in that. Like, yep, you're not going to take my blackness from me.

17:08You're not going to take my culture from me. And that was something that was like... Yeah, and that was something for me that was like, oh, I admire this because I feel like I'm fighting this every day. And that's on the culture side and the race side, the flip side that, they're also the best at what they do. Like, there's something the best in history of what they do, which is like, I want to be great, I also want to be unwavering in who I am, and not having to assimilate to something that I'm not. And those two, especially AI and Moss, they were called rebellious. Oh. Have you, did you just accept that you were going to be called rebellious when you start living in your blackness? That was actually... I remember having this conversation. Just watching the AI documentary, loved AI, and, you know, through that process,

18:09I remember my mom being like, oh, well, you just like him because he's a rebel. And I was like, I don't view him as a rebel. Like, to me, that should be the norm. That shouldn't be rebellious to be like, no, this is who I am. But it's rebellious when you view everybody through a white lens, and whether or not they're assimilating to whiteness, and to dominant culture. For me, I looked at them as role models in that way because they didn't flinch, they didn't waver, and they still went out and were the best at what they did. So I think, to that piece, it's like, where society is today? You're always going to be framed as rebellious, but I actually don't look at it that way. It's actually just being true to who you are. Yeah, the harder part would be to be something else. Right? If you start trying to say, this is how I do assimilate into their culture, become a piece of everything they want me to be,

19:11no, you lose yourself. And in losing yourself, you don't play as well. You don't connect as well. And so I think that's always such a difficult place to be for the Allen Iversons, for the Randy Mosses, but the fact that they stay true to who they are, I believe culturally, Allen Iverson is the most important player in B.A. history. And it was because he maintained that low of authenticity. But even in your younger age, like you say, you know, you tell your mom, like, you want to dress this way, you want to get do-raged, you want to watch the documentary, that was also educating you on the culture. Let's talk about moving that forward to being an adult and receiving the book on Malcolm X. And getting an opportunity to dive in to not only who he was, but the history that made him, how did starting to truly educate yourself or not only the history of black people, but their treatment within this country

20:13started to shape you even more to who you became. Yeah. It was the most pivotal book I've ever read. Shifted mindset, shifted my understanding, and also took me down a path of questioning the things that had been taught. In part because Malcolm, the Panthers, the Black Power Movement, was framed in a negative light growing up. So for me, having that understanding of Malcolm's journey is father being a Garveyite, and a follower of Marcus Garvey, him growing developing, joined the Nation of Islam, but constantly seeking truth and how he had advanced his black people, how he had dressed as systemic issues, and having pride in that, being bold in that, that took me down a path that led me to discover Phanon,

21:15starting to dive in research Huey and the Panthers. It took me down Baldwin, it took me down Steve Beacon and Angela Davis, and Ella Baker, it took me down a long lineage of black revolutionaries and black leaders that put into context all of my experiences that I had to that point, that previously, I had a very high level understanding of, but I didn't have the depth and the historical perspective to be able to put into context. So specifically thinking about that is, getting stopped by police. It was like, oh, I know this is something that happens. I know it's going to happen to me, we had the police run up in our house, but like, was the actual root of that? And understanding policing came from slave patrols and evolved into what it is today, that that becomes a way to be able to, to be the engine for the prison industrial complex.

22:16All of the systemic factors in the historical perspectives, those became critical to me having a broader understanding beyond, oh, this happened to me in this moment, or this is happening to us in this moment, what should we do about it? That deeper connection became critical to be able to actually understand how to move forward. You know, in reading some things in the book, I kept thinking to myself, I wonder if Colin, in the moment, had some of the perspective he's describing. And I thought about that specifically when you were speaking on a draft, in a film, in a draft, because it's part of the process. It truly is. And we become accustomed to that, that if I play really well in high school and playing really well, so I can get a color scholarship. And once I get this color scholarship, and I become a starter, and people start to mention me this way, then the goal is to be invited to this thing.

23:19Right? And when you're there, and you know, they're taking pictures of you and your tights and those different things, you know, you're trying to put your best foot forward, but you can step back from it and realize it may have been something else. When did you truly start to have the realization that, hey, this does, in this sense, remind me of the slay tree? So in the moment to your point, like, you're in this space, they're like, I'm this close to realizing my dream of playing in the NFL. You know, like, whatever hoops I need to jump through, I've jumped through all of the hoops for years and I'm like, I'm going to jump through this. Yeah, so I'm like, I'm going to jump through this space, and I'm going to jump through the space. That's the point. Like, I put the work in. It's like, this is my interview for the draft. And at Interview, that's going to have seven figure consequences. She's like, all right, whatever I need to do,

24:19let me show you the best way possible. Let me prepare. And when you get to the point that is like, yes, trip down to your draws. Well, why do I need to do this? But also, I mean, I guess this is what I have to do when everybody's doing it like, all right, this is part of the process. Now, at that point in time, there's conversations with players at a high level of like, you know, why do we have to do that? You have a high level sense of like, you know, it feels like it's a meat market. But at that point in time, I didn't have the historical perspective to be able to tie those together in such a parallel. Now, one of the things that I think is important in the conversation, and this is always the framework that people use, like, well, you get ready to make millions of dollars. How could you make that comparison? And while the compensation may be different,

25:20and that dynamic is different, that doesn't mean the process isn't the same. And the intention behind the process isn't the same. And for me, looking at, in retrospect, is this becomes a way to be able to condition players, to be obedient as part of this process. Do what you're told to do, show up how you're supposed to show up. If you do it well, we'll pay you well. If you don't, it's going to cost you. And I think for me, that became a piece looking back in retrospect. Now, I think there's more conversations being had around it now. It's like, how is this actually help you define if I'm a great player on a field or not? You have years of film that you're going through. You have my stats. I'm going out. I'm doing the workouts for you. You have your pro day after that. You do individual workouts after that. Why does me stand in my draws, have any impact on your ability

26:22to define if I'm a great player or not? And the short answer is it doesn't. So if it doesn't, then why does it exist? For what purpose? And it does make you think of the origin of that mindset, though. Right? And the same way you're speaking about, yeah, you know, you just kind of work in addition that the police may run up on you at some point. This is going to be a part of your story, but then you say, OK, but where does that start? And I think the historical references you begin to gain as an adult through the study does allow you to have the framework to position yourself, to communicate why these things matter and impact me the way they do even before I knew it. Then, Dool is now available everywhere in the US. I'm in everywhere. I'm in everywhere. So you can get in on the sports action no matter where you are, including these places.

27:23May this year, most rewarding season ever with Fandruble. Agent location restrictions apply. Product availability varies by market. CFandruble.com for eligibility. Gampling problem called 1-800-Gamber. Yeah, Colin, just going back and replaying everything, man. It's making me think a bit about this whole football player and activist thing. And I kind of believe, man, that you're more of the activists that was given an opportunity to play football. I really, you've really been doing this for well over 10 years. Football, not counting college, but using your professional career and platform drafted in 2013. Being ready when Alice goes out with the concussion, hopping in there, doing them well, leading the 49ers to the Super Bowl. Unfortunately, came up a little short, but you played your ass off. Then a little bit after that, this comes over you. God has a funny way to use you for things that he wants to get done.

28:26You talk about Malcolm X. I think your voice has definitely been needed in our community. And the things that you've done in the community, it doesn't go unnoticed. So do you ever look at it and say, God, put me here for this specific reason, but he allowed me to experience football for a moment. But this is the bigger picture. That's a great question. I don't think about that too much. Because maybe this is the football player of me that I'm constantly like, what's the next thing we have to do to move forward? What's the next thing to continue to advance? And for me, as I have a better understanding of ways to be able to help and benefit people in our community, let's go out and execute on that.

29:28Let's build the game plan. Let's go out and do the work. And kind of let's let the chips fall where they lay at the end of the day. But I think the part that's most important is never being complacent with where we're at. And one of the things that I was taught from a young age was football is what I do. It's not who I am. And I think that becomes an important distinction because I can be a great athlete. I can be a great quarterback. I can go play in the Super Bowl. But also there is more to me and there is more to us collectively within that. And I think the other part that becomes important is not just looking at things through an individualistic or personal lens. It's amazing to go out and have that success and be able to accomplish your dreams

30:30and be able to chase them in that way. At the same time, if that's the only purpose and the only goal that I have in life, I feel like I'm failing. If I go out and I have all the success in the world, as our community gained killed, I see them not gain the same opportunities. I see them being discriminated against. I see them being incarcerated. And I take an approach of, oh man, that sucks for y'all, but I'm good. What kind of life is that? And to me as a man and being able to look myself into the mirrors, yes, the goal of being successful in reaching those spaces is also, how do you create opportunity and bring as many people along as possible? And how do you actually change the structures that keep our communities in those positions?

31:32So I think they go hand in hand, but it's continuing. How do you push the bounds of what's possible and how you do that in a way that creates the best possible outcome? Your resume doesn't read black activists to me though. Let me say this. Like if you were going to tell me, in my opinion, one of the most revolutionary, athlete activists in the history of our time was a light skin kid raised by an all white family in Wisconsin and Turlock. I'd have been like, hey, you out your mind. Not that one. You're going to look like Weston's night. What's your first thing? You're going to look at me saying, I would be gay. The dude that changes the world when it comes to being an athlete and an activist,

32:32he's going to be black as your shirt and I know it. You know what I'm saying? It just wasn't, in my opinion, going to be it, man. So when you are making this decision and you and Eric Reed, who's a good friend of mine, or having this conversation, you know, the Chargers game is upcoming, they say, you know, we are going to do it this way. At that moment, how much, Colin, did you understand that the world would change? But more importantly, your world would change completely the day you took that knee. First, to your point, shout out to my brother, Eric Reed. A little bit of context for everybody watching. Eric Reed was the one who came up with the idea to take a knee. He also continued the protest after I was blackballed.

33:33He also played his last season with the Caroline Panthers, set two franchise records, got cut and never saw the field again. So he has experienced very real consequences for him, his career, his family as well. But in that moment, I knew things were changing the week before we took a knee. When Steve Weiss asked me why I wasn't standing for the Star Spangled Banner after our third preseason game. That was a definitive moment that knew there was going to be significant change. Because we saw the response to that. Then going to take a knee with Eric, that became, in Mayway's, Eric became the first validator of the protest in taking a knee. Going out there and doing that together at San Diego, set the stage for,

34:35this isn't a one-off moment. This is something that's continuing and we're going to try to force change with. And I think there's a realization of, fully know what life is going to be like after. But that's why I did have a historical understanding. We have seen this repeat itself. Whether it is Ali, whether it's Tommy and John, whether it's Mark Mood Abdul-Rove, seeing it with Karim, we've seen it with Kurt Flood. So any number of athletes, and then if you came to the broader black community and revolutionary leaders, we've seen the consequences come out the other side of that. And those were all things I was very aware of. And mentally had prepared for if things went that way, which I think made that process easier in Mayways.

35:36It was almost like watching film before a game. You're watching film, you're visualizing what may happen. You don't know how the game plays out. But you're preparing for all the circumstances, all the scenarios that may come about. And start playing out, oh well, if this happens, how would I approach it? If this happens, what do I do? You're never prepared for everything. But you want to have an awareness around what the potential outcomes are. And then on the back of that, then became such a huge moment and movement. There's nothing that prepares you to be able to navigate that. You are constantly learning, evolving, iterating, thinking through different approaches as far as how you address what is coming your way, and also how you ultimately try to get to the outcome that you're looking for.

36:39In that outcome, because you said you want to make change, and your first statement said, I do's because people of color are pressed in this country. And I'm not standing for a flag of oppressed people of color. And it's, how do we get over here? You know what I'm saying? Jim Crow. You can go through it all. Yeah. That wasn't going to change what you needed. Like, I always do things in my mind with the equal sign at the end. You go kneel. Like, I'm just trying to work through your mind. You're going to kneel to take your stance, which everybody respects. Very divisive as we, it's kind of sad in this country. Very divisive. But after that equal sign, what was the, till your options in your mind, what was the good option I was about to happen? I mean, the good option is you start creating systemic change. To your point, you're not going to solve oppression overnight. Like, you're not going to solve all of the systems overnight. But you can make meaningful progress towards solving them. And a lot of the conversation that was seen happen at that point in time was,

37:43oh, we need to do something. We need to take action. We need to organize. And there are phenomenal people that were doing that within communities that also did not have a national stage. That oftentimes had their voices dismissed because it was, oh, well, you're not, you haven't made it. You're not in a position of power. Or why would we listen to you? Like, you haven't done XYZ. And how do you actually change that narrative and positioning to, you know, all of these are very real issues. They need to be addressed collectively. And we're going to create space and opportunity for them to be able to be addressed holistically. So while the equal sign may not be, hey, we took a knee, oppression is solved. Right. It is taking a knee, taking action towards solving it, and also creating more space and opportunity for other people to be able to join in it.

38:44And I think part of it is, are there people who weren't aware or have level of ignorance to it? Yes. Were there people that had an awareness but didn't feel comfortable speaking out on it? Yes. Were there people that were doing the work and weren't having their voices heard or weren't able to make meaningful progress because it didn't feel like there was enough support in place? Yes. So how do you create an environment that actually allows you to activate all of those people? To say, you know, we're collectively taking action towards these goals, towards these outcomes. And we've done that through Know Your Rights Camp. We've done it through partnering with other organizations. We've done it through partnering with other leaders. And I think that becomes important that as we think about solving these issues, you may not solve them holistically in one shot.

39:45But you can create the environment to allow you to meaningfully move forward and ultimately get to a place where everybody's in a better position. FanDuel is now available everywhere in the U.S. So you can get in on the sports action no matter what you're doing. And you can't just do sports action no matter where you are, including these places. May this year, most rewarding season ever with FanDuel. Agent location restrictions apply. Product availability varies by market. CFANDuel.com for eligibility. Gambling problem called 1-800-Gemma. Did you know you picked the worst possible leader to decide to do this though? The leader of the free world was not at the time, you had a platform. And at the time, the president of the United States was a president who was going to publicly opposed you in your stand and hijack it.

40:50He tried to hijack the stands from the highest office in the country. That was his concern. And then you get someone like Nate Boyer who comes in and tries to hijack it as well. And eventually try to sell it on a t-shirt. Right, and on the TV screen? Yeah, you know what I mean? So for you at that time when you are consistently, you're not only demonstrating, but you're communicating the meaning, the purpose, the reason. And so many of the people who are posing are hijacking that to make it their own. How difficult was it for you in that space to stay strong in what you were trying to accomplish? That was probably one of the most difficult pieces to be able to navigate. Because I look at it from a few different angles.

41:53One is, you know, this beautiful ball player and being competitive. Like with someone challenges you, the initial reaction is like, I'm not going to go to your neck. I got to let everybody know where I stand and what's about to come. That also comes from a place of ego within it. And there was a lot of navigating of what do I personally want to do and how I want to respond. Versus what is most beneficial to be able to move the movement forward. And what's most impactful there and staying focused on that. So while in the moment, Nate Boyer doing it is press run and going out and trying to hijack and redirect things. Also became a space of, is that the right battle to take on?

42:57Because then it becomes a conversation of, oh, what they're fighting over here. That becomes the conversation as opposed to, you know, police are killing black people. And we have systemic issues that need to be addressed within our communities. Or I should say they're happening to our communities. And there was a constant navigating of that. That has shown up consistently throughout the last 10 years of moments I might, I personally want to pop off right now. I personally, that is what I want to do. I also don't think that's best to be able to allow us to move forward. So we just go let Jay-Z just freestyle. That that's also been the interesting part of the last 10 years. So when I protested, I didn't protest the NFL.

44:02But they had a whole lot to say. At that point in time, I was in protest in Donald Trump. He had a whole lot to say. I was in protest in Jay-Z and I didn't have an issue with Jay-Z. I didn't keep my name out of it. But if you continuously bring something to my doorstep, there's a certain point that's like, okay, you're asking me to address this. And I mean, going to that one, that was one I reached out previously to him to say thank you. Because he had worn my jersey on S.S.L. It looked like he was supportive. And he never crupped me to rock nation. And I was like, oh, this seems like an ally. And on the back of it was, one never got on a call, wouldn't meet. Which, no problem. I know people got, they got their own things they're focused on.

45:04No worries. But the first phone call I get from him, he's been on, is the day before he goes out and does the press conference that he did the NFL deal. Now, the backstory behind that is the only reason he called was because he did an interview with a reporter named Andrew Beaton, who asked them, have you talked to Colin the day before? And he was like, no. He was like, oh, well, don't you think you should have spoke to him? So he called me to be able to say, oh, I spoke to Colin when he went to the press conference. And I, at this point, that was not the first time that it happened. That happened with Travis Scott before he went out and did the Super Bowl. At that point, time, entertainers were protesting the Super Bowl. They weren't doing the Super Bowl half time show. And I was like, look, I disagree with everything that you're doing.

46:04At this point, I had just finished going through litigation with the NFL, had to pose them, had gotten all of the discovery. So I knew the conversations that they were having. There was also a recording that was leaked where it was a player's owner's meeting, where Terry Pagula from the owner of the Buffalo Bills was like, we need a black face to be able to help us solve this. And they tried that with the players coalition. And I was like, we need a bigger black face. And I told him as much. And I was like, what, the ink's dry. And look, if you want to do a business deal, just say it's a business deal, and owner consequences on the other end. But don't try to frame it as something else. And the part that's more nefarious to me than that is, one going in and saying, oh, we're beyond this now.

47:04We're past Nielin, which you weren't out there protesting with us. You weren't the blood-gain heat. But also, going to, having rock nation and the people within rock nation, going out and planting negative stories on the back end of that. And we got those calls directly from reporters. Hey, is it true that you've gotten all these offers and you turn them down? Oh, we hear that you actually don't want to play anymore. And trying to plant negative stories to try to better position yourself. Like, I'm fine having disagreements with people. And wanting to go down different paths. Don't make up stories. And try to be malicious in the process. I think what gets lost and everything is that the people magnify the Nielin, right? But they tend to lose what you were actually Nielin for.

48:09Can you speak to that a little bit? To me, that was part of the intention of a lot of the conversation that was being had within media. Was how do we actually not have to talk about police killing lifehows? Can we talk about how the NFL is responding? Can we talk about how politicians feel about it? Can we make it about the military? It's like, no. We were very clear from beginning what we're trying to address. And we're doing work around those issues directly in our communities. We're doing it with partners. There becomes a point where you have to continue to stay focused on the work. The conversations that happen, those are going to happen. But you have to be relentlessly focused there.

49:10And that's some of what led to, I'm not even going to worry about these other conversations that are being had. And we're just going to stay steadfast on here's the work. Here's what we're doing. We're going to be directly in communities and moving forward in that way. I will say in retrospect, I look at it and I'm like, should we have been addressing more of this in real time? And may ways pop it off, just be like. The points that are being made are so illegitimate and so distracting. Does addressing people in real time and bringing them back to the focus, does that help us move forward? And that goes back to some of that equation of, do I want to do that because personally, that's what I want to do? Or does that actually move us forward?

50:10And that's something that I'm not 100% sure one way or the other. The fight over the last 10 years feels more like coming up five years short and it's super bowl. Or you're okay with knowing that the work you're doing with the Know Your Rights Camp is more like a game of inches. And you can see the progress that you're making with the pledges, community, and everything positive that's come along in the past 10 years. I would look at is if we were playing in the Super Bowl or playing this out as a football season, we're early in the game. I don't look at the 10 year mark as like, we're in the fourth quarter, like we're either going to win or lose it right now. While we'll say the moment we're in currently feels like a turning point within that,

51:11where collectively, and we're starting to see the show up more and more, collectively we're going to decide, hey, we have no power in control, and we're just going to let things play out the way this administration wants them to go. Or we're actively going to fight back against this. They say, this is not what we believe in, this is not what's best for us collectively, and it's not what's best for our community. And we're going to have to be very bold in that, because part of the approach, and this is the same approach that the NFL took, is, well, we're going to try to send as many warning shots as possible to send a message, if you try to do that, we're going to come for you. But every time that is intended to deter the next person from doing it, and to deter us collectively from doing it, which I think we have to take that as a space of,

52:12we're not going to let that happen. The conversation shouldn't be, hey, if we take action, what happens? The conversation should be, if we don't take action, what happens? We have to collectively be moving forward. The other part is, we can't wait for it to knock on our door. And collectively, we get very comfortable, like, oh, that's happening over there. Hopefully it doesn't reach me. Or, you know what, I'm doing all right. I can just wait this out. But there's millions of people who can't. And when it does come to your door, or it comes to the door of someone close to you, you're going to want everyone to rally around that and be like, you know what, we need support and protection. But did you show up for other people when they needed it? And I think that becomes this mentality of, we have to look at through a lens of collectivism.

53:16Look at us, can I get by? Can me and my eyes get by? Are we good there? No, we collectively have to thrive. And we collectively have to create better conditions for each other and protect each other as part of this. And when you say we, all the work, we do, I'm sure you're bringing up your beautiful wife, Nestle. Right? She's a part of that, we. Absolutely. I just got to see you in love. You did good, young man. You did good. No, no, no, no. Intellectually. And visually, it's where. But yeah, you did good. See, we can't tell you no where. Okay, we can find that. Like you saying, no store, you just don't have stuff, people just bring stuff up. Yeah. And they were speaking about your wife like, it was a negative way like she put a battery on your back. It's for blackness. Where I would say like she was almost, because as you talk where you were looking at it as a kid, you were seeing it. Then you were doing your research. Then the cap was you wanted that information and you were just building it up.

54:17And she might have been the last, the last infinity stone in to make the blackness thing, those. You know what I'm saying? I like that. Well, I'm hearing the stories. I'm like, no, he got a strong black woman and that, oh, that was a, now, that's what's going on. Like I was looking at like that when I'm reading the stories in a negative light. Like kind of talk about like put that to bed or even just say like what your wife did for you when you did meet her. When you did meet that beautiful. I appreciate you bringing this up because that, Nessa is, she is exceptional. And she was exceptional before we got together. Very successful career, successful trajectory. She had navigated a whole lot in her life to be able to get to that place. So extremely resilient. But she did introduce me to our biography of Malcolm X. She did open the aperture of what I saw within society, what I looked at in relation to a global perspective. Like she helped me grow evolve and develop.

55:21And what's so interesting to me is that's framed in position as a negative. As if that's not what you would want in a partner. Like to me, that's what we should be striving for is a partner that makes us better. And I hope I make her better in that process too. And I think some of that is misogyny. Yep. We're like, oh, well, you can't have a woman helping an educator lead a man. And it's like, no, there's opportunities and times that she needs to lead. She is a co-founder of Know Your Rice Camp. Like she helped build some of the vision around that too. And I think that's incredibly important because also when we look historically, there have been phenomenal women that have built in lead movements that we often discount. Like whether it's Betty or Coretta or Rosa or Ella or Angela, Erica Huggins.

56:24We have phenomenal leaders that were leaders in their own right and also help make their partners better. And both of those can exist and they should exist. Now, the other part that I think is, and this is one you never know until you're actually in a moment, is on the back of protesting. This is a mess that did not ask for. Like she, that was not something she signed up for as part of my, hey, we're going to be together. And as part of that, did not flinch. Immediately was, oh, okay, so what are we doing? What do we have to activate? How do we have to move and has been consistent and resilient in that? Instead faster than that through 10 plus years.

57:26In 10 plus years of personally being attacked. Why are you so loud? Why are you talk so much? We're ISIS sympathizers because her, her family, her Muslim. And had to deal with all of the attacks that came along with it. And still said, no, the work is more important. We're going to continue moving forward. There's not a question of whether or not I'm going to support you in this journey. We just have to figure out how we're going to move forward on it. And that's so critical and I don't think I would have been, I know I wouldn't have been able to navigate things the way I did if she wasn't right there with me. Well, Carla, listen, you know relationship, you know if home ain't right ain't nothing right. You ain't right, no, you go home and you get beat up. You like, man, I don't need you to go out in the world. It's bad here. So that is all important, especially in the way you were going to be attacked.

58:31You know that is going to touch the people close to you. And she got it personally. It wasn't just she was feeling where you were feeling they actually went after her as well. The thing you know we like to do in this show though that I love to do is like talk about the people. Right. And obviously you've done so much and people want to know the little intricate parts of your mind said, I want to know what it's like being a dad. Yeah. You know I am in you know another connection. I'm a C-section baby. Right. So my court was wrapped around my neck. And so there were some things that had to happen for me to be in this position. Now I know you went through some of the same things. And we talk all the time about like our babies. You know what I'm saying? Like my kids are in their 20s bro and I still want more for them than they want for themselves. I still hurt for them more than I hurt for myself. Right. I still get more joy from watching them. So when you're you know you're in that delivery room.

59:32You know and Nessa gives birth and your baby's not breathing. Talk a little bit about what you were going through personally that competitor in you that wants to fix everything. And now you're basically helpless watching this happen. Yeah. It's a moment you don't ever want to go through. It was also something that Nessa and I had talked about prior to her going into labor was if anything happens you leave me and you go with our baby. That doesn't matter. So we had that conversation in advance. And then in having a C-section. Like the part that we weren't prepared for was because your baby is not traveling through the birth canal. It doesn't push the fluid out of their lungs sometimes. So our baby girl came out blue.

1:00:32And the immediate reaction is I'm watching the doctors and nurses. I can tell on their face like always not. Some's not how it's supposed to be. Some's not right. I also have Nessa sitting right here. I'm laying right here. Looking at me for. Oh is that is our baby girl good. And there it. I think some of this comes back to like football training. Like you go to a place of immediate calm even when there's like a sense of panic or urgency or like a situation that you're like I don't fully know what this is but I have to lead. No she's okay.

1:01:33They're just they're trying to get her to cry. They finally get some of the fluid out. She starts crying. It's like a. Alright set sigh of relief. But also can tell they're moving like oh we need a gear to it. Nick you we need to get on a CPAP. And immediately it becomes. Okay. Nessa you just had a C section. Your stomach is still wide open. You have to leave and go follow the baby. And she tells you this she tells you to go. But she tells me this we've had this discussion. But as a husband and father you're in the space of. The two people I love most. Both are in very vulnerable positions right now. And remember I've fallen.

1:02:35Followed Nile to Nick you. And. That we often talk about like. The fatherly instincts or the dad instincts that kick in immediately. And I had that moment in the hospital. As Nile is going into the Nick you. One of the nurses came and was like oh you can't come in. I'm going to get you in about an hour. I have played every scenario out in my head. I was like you know what I'm okay with the consequences. But there's no way hell you're going to stop me from seeing my baby girl right now. And there was a. I have a record dude who was sitting at the desk and my my my my most work labor and delivery. So I have some of that background of how things operate a little bit.

1:03:36And do solos happen. He was like look. Give me a few minutes let them get set up. I get you in there like well. I was like alright cool. But don't tell me a few minutes and then try to say it's going to be an hour. I'm going through this door. And again I played all the scenarios on my head. I was like on the other side of it. I'm okay with it. As long as his baby girl is okay. And that was one of the moments that I realized like oh as a father you have different instincts. And they kick in immediately to make sure that. That your family is protected. Your kids are protected. And so my wife like I'm going back and forth between this in the hospital. So that. I kind of laid the foundation of how this baby girl came in the world. Now I feel like I see that resilience show up in her in a daily basis. I'm like.

1:04:36Oh you. You like that. You try to give me the business right now. I love to independence just don't direct it at me. You know I was willing to do for you. You know what I mean. I mean I'm not going to get older. She cutting up you like girls going to change. Right. I was willing. Man you know part of loving your family. You talk about the two most important people is being able to provide for them as well. You had reached heights as a quarterback still with records and rushing for a game. You bring a team to the Super Bowl. I mean when you took over the San Francisco 49ers bro from Alex Smith it was six to two. It wasn't a bad football team. It wasn't a football team and I was like oh we got to make change right. That was the decision and you were able to do it accomplish all of these things on the field. And you said multiple times I love football. I still want to play football. I mean you even have the workout in Atlanta to prove it like I can still do this.

1:05:37You know recently you were asking about the NFL and he was like you know I hate them. You know what I mean. I mean I hate that truth right. Do you truly feel like there's a you don't watch it or how much of a level of resentment is it toward the NFL for you. I look at the NFL as an institution. As an institution. It has individuals within that actively black wall. So there's a very specific actions to make sure that was the case. We heard it from coaches. We heard it from GMs. And the intention behind it was very clear. So there is no love loss between me and the institution and those people within the institution. And the decision makers within the institution.

1:06:39Football as a game in the camaraderie and the sport and all that comes with it. I love deeply. And you all know this like there's no other feeling that you get stepping on that field. After having put in so much work and time and dedication to be able to go out and try to win the game and try to win the championship. And that feeling, that camaraderie, that dedication, the sacrifices that you're making. Whether it's time with your loved ones with his other opportunities. The physical that comes with it. That can't be replaced or replicated. So I love that component of it. The organization institution. That's. They're misaligned with. More than ethically who I believe I am. Man, you know, honestly, we can sit here and talk all day.

1:07:41It's been. For me, you know, and ask many times about people. I wanted an opportunity to sit with you always the name. That popped up. I do think and I hope it's okay that I share this. Obviously, we all know what happened to me recently. I've actually before then never spoken to you. You know, we exchange messages and you're like, Hey, man, can you hop on a call? A lot of times people say that in where we are in life. And they don't really want to talk. It's kind of like, I'm extend this sort of gratitude, a platitude to you. Because I know you're going through a tough time. That conversation. The follow up. The honesty, the integrity that you show. It meant the world to me. I think a lot of times people always want to see a person be held to or held in a certain light and perspective. And they want to chip at that and say that's not who they really are behind closed doors.

1:08:44That's not who they really are when the lights aren't on. But at least for me personally, you work. You didn't have to reach out. You didn't have to follow up. You didn't have to be a man of your word. And you have been in every single way. So for me, to you, thank you so much. You know, you don't know in that moment how much it meant to me. You know, I received a call probably in 2016. I went on mic and mic and a colleague, Kaepernick, Jersey during that time. I got the call. Hey, you can't do that. And I was kind of like, well, it's been done now. But I just want to say, man, I've always supported with the publicly or privately. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for what you've done for our communities and the things that you've sacrificed. And, you know, we both know I'll see you soon again. But, man, just bless you, and we just really appreciate you. Thank you. And I'll say, I'm grateful for the support over the years.

1:09:47I'm also, to me, that's our responsibilities. We have to show up for each other. And you all have been doing that. And you have done that for me personally. And we need you to continue to be successful. And we need your help to continue to be successful. And also congratulations. Thank you, brother. Well, I saw the news. I was like, yes. Like, this is what we need. And to be able to be resilient and continue to find pathways forward. If there's ever anything that I can do, and collectively we can do it to be able to help support. Like, that is what we're here for. So, keep succeeding in thriving, and we have a lot more to do together. I appreciate it. I just want to, the words he left me with when we hung up the phone, and I'll leave it at this. He said, it is imperative that you win. And that's stuff with me since we had the conversation.

1:10:48Mando. Hey. We didn't split the room, Marcy. We got two end winners in the house. You can't let go of me. There's also the things, Shane. You always be talking about capas like we saw. We didn't know. Oh, come on. He doesn't know. My whole family was Cubes. So we. Not we, because you did it first, though. You ain't playing. Well, I watched all the big motherfuckers run around and talk about gold boots and camouflage.

1:12:09Make this your most rewarding season ever with Fandru. Agent location restrictions apply. Product availability varies by market. CFandru.com for eligibility. Gambling problem called 1-800-Gemler.