Can Deshaun Watson win over Browns fans? Hey, Mary Kay!

0:00College football is back. So, Hilton called to me the superstition concierge to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oho, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching bandwink up call it 555 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for this day. Payday bars have a bone to pick with the other candy bars. Enough with the toppings and layers and stuff. Payday bars are just salty, crunchy peanuts and sweet caramel. Delicious! Payday! Paynot caramel bar! Hey everybody, welcome to the Ornge Brown Talk Podcast, Dan lobby. I'm Mary K. Cabot. If you hear on a Monday, hey Mary K. edition of the podcast reporting this right now, it's about 550 on Monday.

1:06Mary K and I have both had, we had early wake up calls today. My flight was at 630 this morning, so I was up and getting in my lift right around 430. Mary K, I know you weren't far behind and I don't remember, your flight was right around that same time, so it's been a long day here covering the Cleveland Browns. Yeah, it has been a long day, but I would say it was a fun game to cover, wasn't it? I mean, it was fun. Even though we had a two hour, 12 minute rain delay, it just, I don't know, it just had a lot of drama, a lot of intrigue. I mean, even you captured that video of the Shadour Sanders fan and the stands in the rain. I mean, it just had a little something different to it. They win the game. I mean, it was actually fun to cover a victory. Right. Yeah, I mean, I certainly don't say it as a complaint. Nobody wants to hear us complain about getting to watch football and get paid to do it. And a game like that, you're right. It was like, it was just so strange to have this, this not just to have the rain delay, but when the rain delay happened, like I'm still just floored that we get to the two minute or two minutes left in this football game.

2:19And it's just like, Hey, we're going to stop for a little over two hours and nobody knew like nobody had any idea when they were going to start again. The players were as uninformed as we were just kind of waiting to hear what was going on. It was I don't know, you know, not kind of would I don't know if we'll ever cover a game or something like that. It's again, but that's one we're going to remember and we're not in Tampa that often. So that even makes it more memorable. Yeah, I've never covered a game like that before and I probably will never cover a game like that again. And I've come to find out that it was the longest single weather delay in NFL history that two hours and 12 minutes. So, you know, we were wondering, is this thing going to get played and finished, but it was pretty bizarre. There was also part of me that wondered where we're going to wait two hours to have Baker may feel like throw an interception on the first play and then just watch Dishon Neil at the meal at the clock. But they did give us an exciting ending. The books made it interesting there at the end, but let's get to it. Obviously, Dishon Watson is is a major topic of conversation and we'll go to Mike Parker from Chester Maryland. Hey, Mary Kay.

3:27It's time for a major me a culpa. I was wrong about Dishon Watson and Todd Munkin. I was convinced the Browns were tanking and couldn't understand why Munkin kept sticking with Watson. Well, I couldn't have been more wrong. Apparently, there's a reason Todd Munkin is coaching in the NFL and I'm coaching from my couch. So not really a question from Mike Parker, but I think maybe. It sort of captures the vibe of yesterday's sort of showed why Todd Munkin picked to Sean Watson and why he's he's going to stick with to Sean Watson here at least going into week three. Right. And I just wrote a follow up story today about to Sean Watson and Todd Munkin talking about him and some of the things that he is seeing in Dishon Watson. And one of the things obviously is the use of his legs and he did that very, very well in this game. He converted a couple of third downs one on an eight yard scramble one on a six-shard scramble. He ran RPOs. He ran bootlegs. He ran design runs. You know, he actually was the Browns leading Russia with 22 yards now. That's not saying very much and that needs to change.

4:38But that's one key aspect of Dishon Watson and one of the reasons Todd Munkin was excited to work with him. He's coming up of three years with Lamar Jackson. He wants a guy that he can draw up things like this for Dishon Watson. And so that's one key thing. And then the other key thing is the fact that he can do so many different things just because he's been around so long. He has so much institutional knowledge of the game. So when it comes to QB control at the line of scrimmage, he can give to Denzel Boston that alert so that he changes his route on the 55 yard catch and run for a TD changes up the route and they connect on that. And they also connected on the fade on the drive before that Boston couldn't hang on to it. But that was something that those two guys kind of cooked up with each other because of things that they were seeing on the field. So these are some of the things that you get from Dishon Watson. The operational aspect of just running the show from the line and then using his legs. This is what Todd was looking for.

5:49And I think Dishon has sort of embraced the way that Todd wants him to play right now. And maybe the way he needs to play right now. I think, you know, you look yesterday in particular. I was looking up some stats on him through this is through Sunday's games. Obviously we're recording this before Monday night football. But he had the second lowest intended ariards through son in in week two at this point. And the only the only player at fewer was Jack Strand. Who Kevin's to fans he was starting in Atlanta. And right now through two weeks again, very small sample size. His depth of target through two games is the lowest it's been in his career. But I don't think those are bad numbers like you can look at that and say. That's a bad thing. But I don't think it is a bad thing because we did see in week one. He does have the arm to get the ball downfield and throw deep like it's still there. But I think he's kind of I don't know if I guess he's sort of learning to be more selective like learning to be a little more. He's learning how to play as a 31 year old quarterback who has had two.

6:56You know, two Achilles surgeries major shoulder surgery like this is this is sort of the new Dishon Watson. It's more kind of flashes of the old Dishon Watson mixed in with a guy that just sort of knows what he has to do to keep the football moving. Well, the other thing about it is the fact that the offense itself is learning to walk before it can run. Okay, they've got to get their act together. They're not running the football. There's no runs support whatsoever. And when you're not running the ball, then it's going to hamstring your passing game to a certain extent. And once again, Todd actually admitted today that the quarterback competition. Yes, it may have helped Shadour Sanders. But it did not help Dishon Watson. And that's what I kind of focused my my headline on today was he admitted that because everyone expected that Dishon Watson was supposed to go out in week one against the Jaguars. And he was just supposed to light it up. And he was going to look great. We had been trying to tell everybody that that probably wasn't going to happen. We hadn't been seeing it in practice. Right.

8:00He had a 22 month layoff. It was going to take him some time before he developed rhythm and timing with his sco-players. And I still don't think he has anywhere near enough of it. Right. He's starting to get it with down Zell Boston. Those two guys start to have something going on right now. But on the field in the heat of the moment, I'm not talking about down in Miami when you're throwing to Jerry Judy and Isaiah. I'm talking about in the heat of the moment in the football game when you have to figure out your rhythm, your timing, your chemistry, the nuances of your skill players. He doesn't have a whole bunch of that with a lot of guys yet. I still don't think he he's starting to get it a little bit with Harold fan and Harold made some plays yesterday. But it's definitely a work in progress. And I think Todd Monkin recognizes that right now. And maybe if he had to do it all over again. Maybe he would have stopped the quarterback competition a little sooner when it was evident that he was going to want Dishon Watson to at least start those first two games on the road for all of the reasons that we have talked about so many times.

9:08But I think that Dishon is, as you mentioned, he's adjusting to his new way of doing things. But I think he's also building little by little by little his game back. I thought Todd said a couple other interesting things today too. Along with what you mentioned about the quarterback competition. I thought what he said about still viewing Dishon as a young player. It was interesting. I mean, he's 31 years old. But Todd met, kind of said, I view him as a young player. And then he said he's excited to continue working with him. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought that I thought that was interesting. I thought those are two very interesting things that he said those are things that said to me. Todd Monkin is not in any rush right now to make a change at quarterback as long as Dishon Watson can continue. I mean, obviously plays like he did Sunday. That's no brainer. But as long as he continues to progress in this offense and show that he can run this offense and make it make it functional, which is the term that Andrew Barry used throughout the offseason. Make this a functional offense.

10:11Yes. Well, the thing is this victory sort of changed the philosophy of the season. It took it to a different direction than it was about to go in. Okay. If he had lost that game in Tampa for the Browns to fall to 0 and 2. Should or Sanders was going to be installed as the starting quarterback. They were going to come to grips with the fact that we're probably not making the playoffs. When you're not a very good football team and you start out 0 and 2. It becomes very, very difficult to make the playoffs. The statistics. I see different things here and there. But overall not broken down by, you know, different kinds of teams and different tiers of teams. It's roughly about 12% or something like that that you're going to make the playoffs. I think that's changed ever since they've gone to the 17 game schedule. And it just seems like a more teams have been making the playoffs after starting 0 and 2. And I think there's a stat that like spins off of that that says, well, yeah, if you're a winning team or expected to win 8, 9, 10 games.

11:21That goes up to 40%. So I don't know. I would have to investigate that. But I really truly believe that it was going to be the Shadour Sanders show if they had lost this game to fall to 0 and 2. They were going to concede that they weren't going anywhere this year. And they were going to turn it over to Shadour and see if he could possibly be their quarterback of the future. And now, now they're right back where they were when they first started the season, which was Jimmy Haslam betting the over, which is only 5.5. And the Browns seeing what they can do to establish a winning culture and try to win as many games as they possibly can, which is good for everyone. Now, it could screw you up in the archmaning bowl or the Trinidad, but the Red Chamberlain ball, but winning is vitally important. And this football team needs to instill that culture of winning. Yeah, and I think that that's an interesting discussion like this idea of like you have to develop these guys like you have to develop Denzel Boston in case he conceives the own and Harold Fanon in Quenchon Judgans and these alignment.

12:33So you have to create a system where they can function. And so if Dishon Watson gives you the best chance to function, that's what you have to do. Now, obviously there is the element of, okay, do you want to find out about your doors, Sanders, can you be a franchise quarterback, all of that. I understand where that kind of falls into this too. At some point you would like to maybe get a more firm answer. Yes or no one should or Sanders. But I don't know that you have to do that right now, especially after Dishon played like he did. And then on top of that. You know, I don't think there is a clear number one in this draft right now. I know there's a lot of people that would pound the table for archmaning. There's probably, you know, I think Trinidad Chambers is going to continue to gain steam Darian Mensa is going to gain steam. We're going to hear a bunch of names. But, you know, Josh Allen wasn't the number one pick Patrick Mahomes wasn't the number one pick Lamar Jackson wasn't the number one pick like you can still if this quarterback class lives up to the height, you can still find a really good quarterback and maybe even the best quarterback in this class, if you're not picking number one overall.

13:35And Miami might make it possible to pick number one overall anyway, just because the Browns won a game. So I don't know. I don't think you can be so focused on draft position next year that you're, you're just not getting these guys to develop because it doesn't matter. If Casey concept the own and Denzel Boston, all these young guys on offense don't develop. It kind of just doesn't matter because that was the whole point of this thing is to build the roster and then find that quarterback to drop into it. Right. And the other thing about that is at this moment in time, nobody has any idea how the top five quarterbacks are going to shake out. If you look back to last year. That's all you really need to do is look back to last year to see that what you're going to do. What you think going into a college football season could be completely different than what you think coming out of the college football season. It's crazy. I mean the names that we were bandying about that we thought were going to be these first round picks and how it was going to be such a great class. It just didn't materialize.

14:44Now it seems like this coming draft class in 2027 is going to be worth the squeeze. It does seem like there's going to be enough talent there that anybody in the top whatever the top 15 of the draft or whatever top 12 is going to be able to find a quarterback that they like. We don't know for sure, but it seems like that's going to be the case. So that's one thing. I mean you can't sit there and pin your hopes and dreams on archmaning even though we hear all the reports and the rumors that that's what Jimmy has them is all about. He's so close with the manning family that he's going to do whatever it takes to make sure that archmaning comes here. Nobody even knows for sure if archmaning is going to come out next year. Right. I mean with NIL anything can happen with the quarterback class. So I do think that you have to march forward for as long as you can and go out and try to win every game or you're going to lose Denzel and you're going to lose Jared verse and you're going to lose Grant Delted and as you mentioned.

15:51You're going to lose the development of Casey conception and Denzel Boston and if you just look at the first two weeks with Dishon Watson and Denzel Boston it's coming. It's coming between those guys. They're starting to get some chemistry some timing. They're drawing it up basically in the dirt during the game a little bit and and he's coming around and he is becoming a really good court receiver to the point where I mean who knows where this can go if these guys continue on this trajectory. Yeah, and honestly receiver is one of those positions or if you have a young guy on a rookie contract that's super valuable because these guys are getting 30, 40 million by the time Denzel Boston comes up for a contract. If he continues on this trajectory, he might be looking for 40 million dollars a year. So yeah, not only that you got these guys on the cheat not to which is going to help in your team building over the next few years. So kind of continuing down this road because we had this same a similar question at least about Chador Sanders. This comes from Matt and Roy City, Texas.

16:55Hey, Mary K. If Dishon Watson turns into a top 15 quarterback, I'll say this looking through our Hey Mary K questions. A lot of people are making leaps with Dishon Watson after one game. I get it. That's that's what we do in football in the NFL. But if Watson turns into a top 15 quarterback, does that alter the plans to draft a QB in 2027? Well, it's funny that that we got asked this question because as you mentioned in listening to Todd Monkin today talking about how Dishon is a good young quarterback. It does have you thinking is he looking at this guy and seeing a future with him? Is that possible or is it overreaction Monday for Todd Monkin? You know what I mean? So I don't know where that's going to go. I really don't know where it's going to go. But I will say this if he can put the pieces of his game back together, he's going to be on somebody's football team. And there's a decent chance he could end up playing because a good Dishon Watson is better than a whole bunch of quarterbacks in the NFL.

18:04And if you can get middle of the pack like we've talked about, if you can get middle of the pack, there's a market for that. There is a market for that. And maybe it's even here. I'm pretty sure that these guys are going to draft a quarterback in the first round and as high as they can get that quarterback. But if Dishon Watson shows some things this season and Todd Monkin really, really likes him a lot, which he's already shown that he does, then stranger things have happened than him being back again next year. Yeah, I think it's more likely I like of the two. If you presented me Dishon Watson becomes the top 15 quarterback or your standards become the top 15 quarterback. And I'm not saying I think either one will do that, but it feels to me like, if that happened with Shadour Sanders, that would be the thing that would change your plans because he's younger, fifth or all of that stuff, right? Like you can maybe build a longer future where you not maybe you can build a longer future if Shadour Sanders becomes that type of quarterback.

19:04Whereas with the Sean, at some point you do have to acknowledge even though Todd Monkin called him young, he is 32 years old. He has been through a lot physically, even going back to his Houston days when he was riding a bus because he couldn't fly on a plane because of his rib and lung injury. So he's been through a lot physically, obviously, he's been through a lot mentally. He's been through a lot of his own doing as well. So, you know, to me, if he reaches that level, it's still more of a short term proposition. Like maybe he becomes a bridge quarterback or maybe if this draft doesn't pan out the way you think it will maybe you give him a two year, you know, something like that, a two year deal and then try and roll the dice on somebody else, you know, later. I don't know how that would look, but to me, that's, I don't see a long future with Dishon Watson. But it would be interesting if he did kind of continue to play at this level or just again continue to make this offense functional how the Browns would approach him this off season if they would just say, hey, it's best that everybody kind of go their separate ways.

20:13Or if they would say, come on back, we are still going to draft a guy, but come on back and maybe, you know, be that bridge for us. He must pay a premium for those kinds of quarterbacks, right? He can't we per sets the Kirk cousins who continues to just make millions doing this year after year after year. Sam Darnold, it was even sort of kind of in that category, just a stop gap measure until he reestablished himself as a starter. So there are plenty of bridge quarterbacks that make a boatload of money and and continue their career on for a number of years. So I don't know if that's going to happen here or not so much can still happen throughout the rest of this entire season. It's going to be a very interesting ride, very interesting. And I do think that it is, it's just fascinating how one game can change the course of your season.

21:13And this did, I mean, he saved his job with that victory. He saved his job. And I know people, some people have given me grief for writing that that he could possibly loot, not possibly that he was basically going to lose his job. If he did not play well in this game and that's what was going to happen. And he came up off the mat and he delivered and he changed not only his own standing in his career, but possibly even the course of the season. College football is back. So Hilton called to me the superstition concierge to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oho, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching bandwink up call at 555 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton for this day.

22:19So let's get to this question because in very typical Browns fashion, they have been presented with this conundrum. This comes from, hold on, I got to find it, I scrolled past it. Text Ted Green in Chicago, Illinois. Hey Mary Kay, very curious about what you expect from Browns fans at the home opener on Sunday. Do you think this performance, particularly in the second half, will buy some goodwill? Well, you know, I have been thinking a lot about this. And here's the way that I see it. If you hated Dishon Watson because of the football, then by all means you should kind of be curious and climb back on board a little bit. And give him the benefit of that doubt. If you hated Dishon Watson because of his off the field transgressions, then stay hating Dishon Watson because that doesn't ever think to do with football. So that segment of the population is probably not going to change how it feels about Dishon Watson. And everybody of course is entitled to their opinion.

23:23But the people who are judging him on football, I think those people should try to be open minded about what he might be able to do for the steam. And I've been saying this and writing it and shouting it from the roof, rooftops for a long time. You know it. I've said it so many different times. Okay. Here number one wiped out by an 11 game suspension, here number two wiped out by a shoulder injury that began in week three and never let up until he ended up being diagnosed with a fracture and undergoing surgery. There was nothing about that season that he was ever going to be able to do. He had a bad shoulder injury from week three on wiped out season. And then he comes back in 2024 from a shoulder surgery that nobody else has had in the NFL wasn't ready to throw the ball. Didn't look good. Was in a bad offense. Was on a bat had a bad supporting cast had a bunch of injuries around him. And nobody was on the same page. So that season was another complete wash until he ruptured the Achilles.

24:31So I've never seen a period of time, a long chunk of time where he's healthy. And he has a play collar that knows exactly what to do with him and a good supporting cast. Now right now it's a young supporting cast. The supporting cast needs to continue to develop and get better. But I'm curious to see if he can remain healthy. What he can do in the right conditions here. Yeah, and I've always kind of maintained like this whole idea like the trade is the trade. The contract is the contract. Like that stuff is done. There's no saving that there's no justifying that arresting that at this point right now. It's about what can you get out of him as you're starting quarterback because he won the job. And if there's a future, there's a few whatever. But to me, the contract and the trader are done. It like it didn't work out the way you wanted it to work out. But he's still on your roster. And maybe you can salvage a little something out of it.

25:31That said, I do think it's going to be a little more tame, at least early, than what we would have expected. Obviously, if you would have played poorly in that game, people are feeling good about this win. They saw a strong performance. They saw, I mean, that was probably his, just off the top of my head, that's probably his best game aside from the Baltimore second half a few years ago. I know that it was actually similar in some ways. He played worse in the first half against Baltimore. But he didn't play very well in the first half of this game either. But then he kind of figured it out in the second half. So I think it'll be fine early in the game. There'll be some boobards. I don't think it's going to be as hostile as like maybe what it would, what we would have said it would be eight or nine days ago. But you know, if he starts throwing some balls in the dirt, if he misses some throws, if it looks more like it didn't week one than week two, it's going to turn quickly. I just think that's the reality of it. But I think he did buy himself at least a little bit of like, okay, you know, it's not going to be just booze raining down on you when you come out on the field.

26:35I don't know if they're going to introduce the offense of the defense first. But whenever you come out on the field, I don't think it's just going to be booze raining down on him. Right. I think that this is a town that likes good football. They want to see good football. And if they see good football, they will not be booing him as much as he would get booed if he's playing bad football. He's out there and it's not going well. Then he's going to get booed. He's going to get booed no matter what. Right. Because that's just the world that he lives in. And that's the situation that he is. So he is going to get booed. And he's going to have to figure out how to deal with those booze emotionally, mentally, and somehow get past them and and move through that and try to make some plays and not let it take him down. It's going to happen. But I do think it's a lot less than it would have been if they maybe won the game in spite of him. Right. If the defense just came up so big and he threw two interceptions, but they still won the game.

27:44I think it would be worse. I think the fact that he played really, really well and showed some things. I think that might dissipate some of the vitriol from fans who are judging him based on his football. And I've seen some national pundits are already coming around saying, hey, he looked like the Sean Watson from Houston. And it's like nobody really knows exactly what's gone on here. And and what the whole story is all about people just like, oh, he's stuck. I mean, it's just so much more complicated than that. Yeah. And I mean, that that wasn't Houston, Sean. Like it just wasn't. I mean, Houston, Deschand, at his best, was not that yesterday. And again, that's, I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but that's just kind of the reality of where it's at right now. So yeah, that's interesting that people go that direction. Let's go a different direction here real quick before we wrap up. And then, the question in Hudson, Hey, Mary Kay is Todd Monkins reaction to the Browns is the Browns and his post game presser, the kind of leadership that the team will react to positively and that was missing from the prior coaching regime.

28:52Well, I do think and I've been writing this and we've been talking about it a lot is the fact that he's a very emotional coach. He's got to hear his emotions on his sleeve. He coaches hard. He loves hard. He yells hard. He's got a horse voice because he's screaming so much all the time. You know, he hugs. He, you know, we see him out there just yelling and tearing people down. In fact, there was a situation that happened today where, and yesterday where Deschand Watson was talking about, yeah, during that heated practice that Todd Monkins referred to on Wednesday. Deschand was like, yeah, he and I even went head to head and Todd today was like, we did. And the funny part about that is Todd Monkins. I mean, that's just a day in the life of Todd Monkins to be yelling at whoever's in front of him. And he sees something that he doesn't like. They're yelling at each other. Right. And that's absolutely nothing for him. But to Deschand, he's probably not used to that getting yelled at like that. So to him, that was like, oh, we went to head to head and Todd's like, what? That was you ain't seen nothing yet. So I thought that was kind of funny. But I did think that that was the kind of emotion that that you wanted to see. And you need some fire from this team. You need some.

30:08You just need some intensity from this football team. And he brings it. The coach brings it. And I did think that it was a great way for him to wrap up his press conference yesterday. I thought, I mean, I thought it was entertaining. I, you know, I like that he acknowledged it. I thought that was fun. I know I do think Kevin's to Fanski would find ways to use that stuff. I mean, we were, we saw how fired up that football team was after that. And the two, two comments. So like, I think Kevin used that stuff. And I'll also just go back to, you know, Freddie Kitchens said a lot of entertaining stuff. And when Freddie first got hired, there was stuff he said that was like, oh, man, this guys, this is what the Cleveland Browns need. So to me, it's like, it's fun. It's entertaining. But what really matters is what happens on Sundays and does he win games? Does he build on this win? And I like it because it gives us something to talk about and it gives us something to write about and it's way more entertaining than what we've had the last six years.

31:12But I don't know that it necessarily mean maybe I've wrong. I don't know that it necessarily means anything bigger than it was just kind of a cool fun moment. And something that Browns fans connected with. And that's great. Like that's how you win fans over as a head coach. Well, he wisely used the bulletin board material that Mike Tauman gave him and Mike even reacted to it on Sunday night football last night saying, hey, I can still motivate people, even though I'm not coaching. And that's exactly what happened Todd Munkin, it used the gift that fell to him and got the disrespect angle going and the us against the world thing rubbed up and they used it and it worked. And it carried them through that football game and that was a tough hard fought game and they had to wait out a hole to our in 12 minute, rain delay. And then that defense came out and shut them down in the Baker Mayfield revenge bowl. And they've got to be happy about that. Okay, we will wrap things up there. Those questions from our football insider subscribers, Cleveland, Icom slash Browns, the blue banner at the top of the page to get involved there. Find us on all your socials like for our end of brown talk. Give us a like.

32:21We've got tons of videos up on our socials from yesterday storm player interviews, all that stuff. And we have those on our YouTube channel as well. This where you can watch our podcast Cleveland Browns on Cleveland.com is that YouTube channel. Eric counts. I'll talk to you later. Sounds great. Fall has never looked or tasted this good sweet greens fall harvest menu is back with seasonal favorites dressed to impress and made to be devoured warm roasted sweet potatoes crisp apples maple glazed Brussels and crave worthy flavors in the bottom harvest bowl maple glazed salmon plate and roasted bacon Brussels side the season's most desirable menu has returned to sweet green featuring falls best dressed. Make your move order on the sweet green app.

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