Bonus: The Rhun ap Iorwerth Interview

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1:02When you need comfort, bring out the bob available now in your refrigerated section. Hello, this is a bonus episode of newscast where we are upholding a newscast tradition, which is whenever there's a new First Minister of Wales and the Compton London, they pop into newscast for a getting to know you chat. In this case, the new First Minister of Wales is Reen App Yourworth. He's also the First First Minister of Wales from Plied Cumbria, the party of Wales, the Welsh Nationalists. So here's the conversation Reen App Yourworth and I had on Thursday morning. Newscast. Newscast from the BBC. Humanity's next great voyage begins. I don't know the prime minister, it's my dear. I'm Andy, and I'm not looking at my best right now. I see that he was just a mirror of a town. Oh, la, la, thinking about it like a pan-toe helped. And what will you do? Stir it all up. Do we play music now? What do we do? First Minister, hello. Hello, good to be here. This is a grand tradition we've got now of Welsh. First Minister is coming into newscast and spilling the beans.

2:04Well, it's good to be part of this tradition and nice to be in your lounge. I'm remembering Mark Drake for a tea brought some carefully cheese. Do you got any Welsh gifts? Sorry, don't worry. Would you like some of this water? You're telling me my own backbag to be great. Okay. It is interesting though, because you've arrived with quite an on-ter-eye outside the studio and you've got security guards. How does that feel, that transition from taking an opposition politician? Well, you can sort of have your own life to... Yeah, well, I do have my own life. But it is a massive change in anybody's life when they do find themselves in a position of of leading a government. You haven't quite got the same freedom to do what you like with your time, but it's that sense of... It's not about the size of the team around you. It's what all of us as a team are trying to do for Wales and to have this amazing honour of an opportunity to guide our nation on a different path. And what are you doing here in London today? Other than seeing us?

3:05Yeah, a lot, Sona. I do come down to London relatively often. It's important that we have those good links with UK Government. As it happens today, it's more international in outlook, meeting representatives from other nations around the world, diplomats and so on, talking about the kind of international outlook that I want this new Welsh Government to have. I want it to be the most international thinking government we've ever had. And that means building relations with others, using influence where we can, building trade links and so on. It's really important having done some foreign trips. I've been to Ireland, which wasn't a coincidence that it was my first visit, because it's a very important relationship for us in Wales. It's a very important trading partner, but it's also an important cultural link we see, the world in similar ways, and it's been good to meet the T-Shirt, a couple of times, the foreign minister and look for ways that we can strengthen

4:06and be innovative in the thinking between our nations. Right, let's talk about the leader of the UK, Andy Burnham. His big thing is devolution. Is that music to your ears or do you not like the Andy Burnham brand of devolution? He talks about less about giving more powers to the existing devolved institutions. He talks about devolving power to the level below, which is local communities. Yep, so you're asking two questions there. Music to my ears? Do I have a journalist? Do I have a journalist? I'll pick that, I think, the way they say. Do I appreciate the fact that we have a UK Prime Minister that's interested in devolution, in taking power from the UK centre and taking it close to the people? Yes, because it gives me an in. It's a relationship that based on an understanding of the importance of speaking each other's language. Yeah, and I've made that clear from the start, we've met, and I am quite sure that we can have a good relationship. And our understanding of these issues are important. But what I've made clear to him is that whilst I appreciate that he gets devolution,

5:08what it means to Manchester in particular, that's his background. I don't think he yet understands as well as I want him to, what devolution is and can mean for Wales. Wales is not a region of England. I would encourage regions of England to embrace the prospect of having more powers. But talking about handing powers to mayors, empowering regions is not the same as saying, within Wales, you should decentralise. I believe in empowering communities in Wales. That's in our DNA as a party. But devolution has happened in Wales. It's about strengthening it so we can empower those communities as I want to do. Are there powers that English mayors are getting that you don't have? Well, we raise more than half the funds for policing in Wales directly, but we have no power of accountability over policing. It is undevolved. Andy Burnham, as a mayor of Manchester, had more power over policing than I do as a First Minister of Wales.

6:09That's clearly unacceptable. And with the UK Government, you know, currently, you know, having embarked on the biggest review of policing, they say, in a couple of hundred years, well, isn't that the perfect time to move ahead with what commission after commission and study after study and independent review after independent review have said, is that we need to devolve policing. And I think Andy Burnham gets that. He gets it, but I think he's surrounded by people who have still an ideological aversion to empowering Wales anymore. What do you want to be able to do with the police? Well, this is all about aligning public services together. There are lots of issues that the police deal with, mental health, for example, the way they work across communities, that Welsh Government is very much responsible for, but we're not responsible for the policing. It's been described as a bit of a jagged edge in devolution terms, where it just doesn't make sense. Bring policing in to Welsh Government, as Scotland runs its own policing.

7:10So does Northern Ireland just have those? I mean, it just makes sense. Yeah, I'm just trying to get away from a sort of like org chart way of looking at it, and just actually get down to the realities of what you would do differently. What the democratic accountability is really, really important. As I say, we raise those funds in Wales directly. We don't have that democratic accountability. We need to devolve justice, justice, and how that applies to people's lives is really, really important. We should be looking at the whole picture. There's a misalignment. I get that in through, just give me some examples of how you would run the police in Wales differently than how they're currently run in a non-devolved way. Okay, there are a core issues of policing that would be the same wherever you are in the world. It's keeping people safe. It's trying to fight crime and so on. But I think when it comes to administration, when it comes to democratic accountability, there is real benefit in making sure that we have real alignment. When there are powers over, as I say, mental health,

8:12which are under the control of the Welsh Government, and police interact all the time with mental health within the community, yet we aren't able to align our policies together. We need to. So, what do you want the police to be able to intervene in a different way when someone's mental health is an issue? We need agencies to be able to speak with each other, without any hindrance. And again, I come back to democratic accountability. One of the principles at the heart of devolution, and this is what Andy Burnham gets again, is those decisions are taken closest to the people that they affect. Policing is one of those areas where we need decisions to be made closer to home, where there's a real understanding of different circumstances in different communities. Let's make those decisions. And every study has concluded that that's what should happen now. You've got a few asks of devolution, and you want them all to be wrapped up in a new piece of legislation, devolving or paras to whales. I think it makes sense. A Whales Act. A Whales Act.

9:13A Whales Bill. It's happened before. Yeah, a bill then. But then it would be a bit of an act. A bill. So the assembly was set up in 1999. Devolution wasn't set in stone then. The Secretary of State for Wales at the time, Davis said that devolution is a process and not an event, and it's become something of a mantra. But it's true. And 12 years later, having become very, very clear, probably in the first weeks of devolution that this new institution just didn't have the powers to do anything, there was another piece of legislation that led to a referendum that turned it into a law-making parliament. What we're saying quite simply is, now is the time to move on to the next part of our story. It is quite clear what some of those steps that need to be taken on devolution of rail, on devolution of policing and justice, a fairer funding formula, fiscal flexibility so that we can use the money that we have in ways that we want and to control our natural resources and so on. Now is the time to do this. And having a Prime Minister that understands devolution,

10:13well, let's talk about what that means for Wales and more, crucially, what it can mean for the people of Wales. And as he said, yes or no to that. Oh, he's absolutely made it clear that he is interested in talking about these issues. As I say, he has people around him within the parliamentary Labour Party who have shown on a number of occasions in the past that they are not interested in pursuing further powers for Wales. Despite it being Labour policy, I mean, Labour's own policy has been to devolve policing. Well, I will encourage and build that relationship with Andy Burnham to try to get him to really understand that now is the time. We'll talk about some more policies in a second, but I'm just thinking about Andy Burnham again and one of the most powerful bits of his conference speech at the Labour Party conference was when he linked the death of his dad, which happened on the day that you and John Swinney and some other national leaders were meeting for a summit about the future of a very different looking UK. And Andy Burnham linked a comment made by John Swinney,

11:15the Scottish First Minister, about him hoping that Andy Burnham would be the last Prime Minister of the UK. And Burnham linked that to the fact that his dad died that day. What did you think about Andy Burnham making that link? I think about my late mother a lot as well. Andy Burnham has spoken with real passion about why he believes in keeping the United Kingdom and he spoke about his father. I thought a lot about how my late mother and my father were part of the awakening in Wales in the 1960s onwards, realizing that the bulldozing of Welsh villages against the will of the people of Wales was tantamount to Wales Westminster acting against the interests of Wales. And I believe, passionately, that we would all benefit from a redesigning of the United Kingdom in a way that benefits Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Ireland. So I get it absolutely why Andy Burnham is the product of his life experience, as am I.

12:16Do you think Andy Burnham was correct, though, to link the fate of the UK with his own dad's death? Because that's what he was doing in that section of the speech. As I say, we are all the product of who we are and those people that have influenced us. And I, having been through the loss of a parent myself, I haven't the feeling of what Andy Burnham is going through now. And I think it's inevitable when you're talking about your politics and your values that at a difficult time in your life like that, that you relate to your own past. And what I'm saying is, so do I. So you think it was fair for him to link his dad's death with what John Sunni said? I, even though John Sunni did not know at the time. I'll take a step back and I will remind listeners and viewers that Andy Burnham made the point that John Sunni would not have known that his father had passed away at that point. And I think it's very, very important that people recognise that.

13:19Andy Burnham himself made that point. Let's talk about some of the other things that you promised to do. Childcare, a big expansion of free childcare in Wales. So basically extending the age range at which parents can get free childcare. How's that rule out going? Where have you got to? Good. Probably further along than I had hoped. Sunni, when we came into power only three local authorities in Wales out of 22, we're saying that they could do the 12 and a half hours a week, a week for two year olds. Now we have assurances that we're going to get all local authorities doing it by the end of this financial year. So that's very, very good. Then we go on to phase two and three. It's a real challenge, but we have identified this as being something that can make a real difference to the lives of families and communities. And yeah, we're getting on with it. Finances, one part of it, workforce is the other one and it's a matter of making sure that everything's aligned. And I just wondered what have you learned about how you get those things delivered? Because it's so easy to call for it in opposition. But then once you're actually

14:22sat at the desk and you have to make the phone calls and look at the spreadsheets. What have you learned about getting changed? I'm not sure it's learning new, but it's really recognized. Oh yeah, it's a patronised, you'll see. You don't know how it works. Point of make is you learn at a deeper level the importance of partnership. Because governments don't do things on their own. Governments are facilitators. Governments might pay. Government might be the ones that need to bring different policies together on skills creation and making sure that you have a workforce. But it's others that work with you to make things happen. Be it private sector providers and nurseries. And in particular, local authorities too. And getting those partners to work together is really good. Which is why I'm so pleased that we were able to get all local authorities to say, okay, yeah, let's do this. But has it surprised you the extent to which what you can do relies on other people? I won't say it surprised me. It impresses me all the time that what we do as a government is

15:23bring people together. I chaired my first meeting this week of the Social Partnership Council, which is government working with other partners to make sure that our policies, that our thinking, our budgets, our laws are taking into consideration the views of employers and unions and others. It's very, very important to me that we bring people together. We're a small mission in Wales. That brings lots and lots of benefits and the ability to bring key players around one table is one of those. And I suppose you've got to do a lot of that as well because you're a minority government. So you're having to do that in the Senate all the time. Yep. It's important to remind people that not one party has ever had a majority in the history of devolution. It's always been the case. The parties have had to, from a minority position, find a way to get its business through its laws through. That's exactly the same position that we're in now. It just so happens that the political landscape is one that we've never had before with

16:27Plaid Cymru being the largest party. It is natural, I think, that it takes time for all of us as it has included to understand the dynamics of this new political landscape because we're all there. Whether we're parties of government or an opposition and I've been in opposition for a long time to recognise that we can influence things for the people we serve. But one of the things that happened though was you tried to pass this supplementary budget. So kind of an additional budget on top of the normal one and it got voted down because all the opposition parties opposed to. How big a blow was that? Well, that wasn't the main budget. We wanted to get the supplementary budget through, of course. But neither were we for a second taken for granted that it would be passed. I think it was quite useful in some ways that everybody voted as they thought right at that time. Reminding people that this is a parliament where people have to work together. We had to think, okay, how do we, we'd said the words and we meant them, we want to cooperate. We had to go away and think, okay, we need to be very clear in our actions that we that we mean

17:31that. Other parties have to think what how they're what you mean by that. Oh, I am by nature cooperative. I've watched Welsh politics for a long time. I've been in Welsh politics for some time and I realised that cooperation is necessary to get things done in the parliament. But had you what been to kind of like not collegiate enough and if maybe you made some overtures, you could have got it through. I the overtures, they were much more than that and my first words, my first speeches in the Senate were very, very clear about cooperation. The point I make is that saying it isn't enough and we've just tightened up the way that we make sure that we talk with other parties in a structured way. That's what we always wanted to do. We're serious about governing well, but we're serious about getting those agreements with others to make that happen. I'm trying to think of a word so I don't want to put words in your mouth that maybe we're you two, what is the word?

18:31Too horny, you thought you could get it through. I don't think so. There's a practical here in that supplementary budgets have in the past been pretty approached in a fairly technical way that have never been any real issues about supplementary budgets in the past. So the opposition were politicising it. They have every right to, they can, they can, they can, it's politics and it's a budget. So that's all fine, but it's one of those things where it is a new political landscape and we have to understand it and actually having that vote then as it happened, maybe helped us all to understand what the political landscape is. I'm serious about governing well, I'm serious about working with others in doing that. Are you going to bring that supplementary budget back again? I'm sorry, it's done. It needs to be brought back, yes. Right. We're also now of course in the development stage of the actual budget. Yeah. So which becomes even more important that we have those negotiations. And we've made it clear that we've been talking with others for, you know, for many weeks now. Is there a risk that the actual main budget gets voted down as well? It's a risk in

19:35every parliament everywhere in the world where you don't have a majority. True. I hope that all of us recognise what the budget represents and at some point you have to get a budget through all there are, there are consequences. We don't start from that point. I think we all start across the political spectrum from, okay, that's the end point we need to get to. How do we get there? The other big pledge was on getting NHS waiting list down, which has just been a perennial problem in Wales. And every First Minister I've ever spoken to has been grappling with this problem. How's that going? Where are the waiting lists? I don't know, they get carved into different categories. Yeah. We made it clear that we are focusing initially on the very longest waits. It's not accepted over two years. That you have over two years. You still have over, you know, 4,000 people are more waiting for over two years. And you've got that down. No, so we came in in May, the latest figures, they've actually gone up a little because the

20:36impact of our decisions, I think is probably, most people would say, haven't been felt yet. So we made a big cash injection in the summer. We announced in September a host of changes in the way we approached diagnostics and treatment and the kind of long-term thinking that we're putting in place. We characterise what previous governments did. And of course they tried their best, but we see that it was more too short-term, managing to get waiting times down through in-sourcing additional support from the private sector, for example. But when that was taken away, waiting list went back up again. The changes we're making are more long-term in nature. We have said that we are hopeful that those actions we are taking will lead to zero over two years within a year. I'm confident that the measures we've put in place will see start to see a downward trajectory in the next couple of months or so. So in the first year you will have eliminated the two-year weights altogether. That is the plan. I have to explain why. It's as simple as that.

21:38I'm ashamed to admit, I don't know how adult social care is provided in Wales because I know personal care in Scotland is free and Andy Brownham wants that to be the case in England. What's the social care model in Wales? It's educate me. It's not paid for free for everybody. Yes. So essentially the same as England. And we've got Scotland. No, no, we're the same as England. Oh, right. Oh, I see. So sorry, I'm misunderstanding. Yeah. So we're free in Scotland, not in Wales. Not in Wales, okay. So we have, as a party, spent a lot of time in recent years trying to build the case for how we can have paid for social care. There was a time when Boris Johnson you might remember said that he wanted to introduce free social care in England. And at that time, we again worked on how we might be able to use consequential funding that would flow to Wales from that because the truth of the matter is that the levers, most of the levers that allow us to

22:39bring in additional funds for this, for example, reside with the Treasury in London. What we have now is a UK Prime Minister again talking our language. We've been talking about having this National Care Service for some time, but there are clear cost implications in doing that. He is campaigning essentially to do this after 2030. Well, I say don't wait until then get working on this now because this is something that has of huge significance to millions of people in these these islands. We might want to do it in a different way in Wales, but this is a desire that I very much share with the UK Prime Minister. I encourage him, though, not to campaign on this, but to remember that he's a Prime Minister and he can do it. Yeah, I suppose because if he is talking about adult social care being provided on NHS principles, the principle is that there's a Welsh NHS that does things differently. So you might buy the whole free at the point of use thing, but you might want to deliver it in a different way. Absolutely. And you want it to be funded. Yeah, that are innovative ways that we might be able to squeeze more money out of that,

23:40so we can, yeah, that there's lots that we can do. And as a supply company, though, weren't involved in his cross-party talks, it was just the Tories and the Lib Dems. Well, he's talking about social care in England. And it's important for people to remember that health and care is devolved in in Wales. There are parallels. There are principles that we can work on, but as with policing, we need to be able to set our own path to fit our own needs in Wales. We have an older population in Wales. There are different there's a different context to it. We need to think because of very practical reasons in different ways. Another thing that Andy Burnham talks about. I feel we're talking about Andy Burnham quite a lot in this conversation, but then it shows you he has kind of set the terms of the political debate with that conference speech. The relationship with the EU, so we've kind of, we've got the the Keir Starmer reset that was that was originally happening, then it sounds like the government's going to publish a list of options towards the end of the year about where that relationship would go in future, which would include the option of rejoining.

24:42What's your favorite option? We think we should be members of the European Union. When? I think straight away. I think we should never have left and we would take the quickest possible path to be members of the European Union. I think what is the quickest possible path? It's a very, very good question. There are positive sounders. We're hearing this week about France, Germany saying, yeah, come on, come back in. Well, that's what we encourage a UK government to do. You'll find that quickest way way back. I think a referendum would be one to go back. I think the truth of the last century. We should have a referendum to rejoin as soon as possible. That is one obvious way back into the into the European Union. I'm not going to blame your referendum to start the negotiations to rejoin. And then would you have another one on the membership terms that the EU offered? We're getting into detail here now. I think that's quite important details. They are important details. We need to forge that path.

25:45And we absolutely wouldn't need to bring people with us. There was a vote 10 years ago. I was vehemently opposed to Brexit, but it was a vote. And I think it's very important. We're whales voted until they raise that. Yeah. And so, were those people wrong? That's why I said, I don't deny what happened 10 years ago. I think context change. Do you have proof that people in Wales feel differently about Brexit? Oh, proof is in opinion polling, proof is anecdotal, but proof about what Brexit meant is very, very clear. And I was going to say, many, many people made a decision in May this year to vote for applied companies rather than Labour. People who had loyal to Labour, I think what they see in Plaid Cymru now, and I think they might see positives in the fact that Andy Burnham is talking a lot of the language of Plaid Cymru now on the EU.

26:47It could be on social care. It could be on devolution. But they don't have to hedge their bets in Wales anymore because they can have that leadership in Wales, clearly with the First Minister that's willing to work very positively with the UK Prime Minister, where we have common ground, but that will be always focused on what's in the interest of the people of Wales, and not the interest of the Labour Party, certainly of the UK. That's a big difference in Welsh politics now. It's changed the story of Wales. Where are you on independence for Wales now? Because I noticed you didn't really mention it in your conference speech to Plaid Cymru conference. But it's all about Wales. I'm fascinated about the way people view the independence question. I'm in favour of independence for Wales. We can then have a debate about what independence is, and it's not isolation. It's about working with other countries in a different way. I'm not talking about breaking Britain up. I'm talking about, if you like, joining us up in a different way is independent

27:50nations. So it's not isolationism. And then some people would, excuse me, are talking too much about it. Others would, excuse me, have not talking enough about it, and therefore somehow hiding my ambitions and my vision for Wales. I have a clear vision. And I think what the people of Wales, again, have understood, is that in me and my government, they have people who are intent on doing whatever it takes to build a better future for our nation. We'll deal right now with those issues of health and education and job creation and childcare and child poverty. And at the same time, we have a vision for what else we might do. Next step is for the devolution. Parity with Scotland as a bare minimum. Why would another constituent nation of the UK have more powers, more ability to mold its own future than Wales has? It doesn't make sense to people. So we take that step forward. And then move forward again. And then move forward again. The step after that independence. Well, I've always maintained that the journey itself,

28:53its trajectory and its timing are essentially in the hands of the people of Wales. There has been a huge shift in 50 years. I mean, 1979, the people of Wales voted three to one against having any sort of devolution at all. Within 18 years, largely because of those or thatcher years and that sense sold on, Wales's voice is being diminished here. We're being muted. They voted only just to have an assembly. 11 years later, it was two to one in favour of turning the merry week assembly into a full long making power. Parliament. Now you have 30% plus saying we support independence. And people up to 40, 45 years old in majority is saying, now there's no question that we're on a constitutional journey. And I said recently in meeting leaders with Sian Fain and the SNP that there's no turning back on that constitutional journey. What there is

29:55still on that journey is a number of options ahead of us. And I want us to be brave. I want us to embrace the art of the possible. We're not particularly small as a nation. We're not particularly poor as a nation. I just want Wales to be a normal nation. And I encourage people to be brave. I, first of all, I would say there's lots of opportunities for Wales to be a normal nation within the framework of the UK. But that's not how normal nations are. I'm a European. I believe in countries working together. European nations are an independent nation, but they're not isolationist. I don't want to shed myself away from the world. I want to have different relationships that work for us. So we can. I don't think the main criticism of you wanting Wales to be independent is that Wales is going to become like some little weird fortress that doesn't speak to anyone else. I think it's more than just a break up of the UK. But I use the term redesigning it. I think that there's real benefit in just thinking again how we work together as a union. It's currently

30:59it's clearly not a union of equals. Now we are told what we can have still. Power devolved, power attained. At the end of the day Westminster can decide, yeah, you can have a little bit of this. Not what the people of Wales believe in. And to me, it should always be about that. So not to turn this into like a constitutional seminar. So the next step for you then is more powers for the Welsh government. What's the step after that then on the route to the vision for independence that you have? Oh, that I, we can have a very long philosophical discussion here about how you know that's a practical one. Practical one. There are all sorts of possibilities for the future. You will have people who put forward the case for a for a federal UK, a confederal UK. Again, these are powers for a purpose that we seek. It's not having powers over policing or the railways for its own sake. Yeah, no, no, no, let's, let's get on with the seminar. I mean, would you like, I don't know. So in the Scotland Act, there is the clause that says

32:00it is for the UK government to decide constitutional matters. In other words, it's London gets to decide if there's an independence referendum. Would you like that to be written down somewhere for whales? We should be able to decide our own future. We should decide when we have our own independence referendum. How do you do that? I believe in the law and the government structures that you've got. Well, you write that currently into UK law because it is UK law that is above our own abilities to act as well. Okay. So this, this, this, I don't, I don't believe that should be the case. I believe decisions about the future of whales on health and education and all that. And I know a constitutional future should be in the hands of people. So it's a, it's a, it's a relatively straightforward package. In this package of measures we were talking about earlier, the Welsh bill which would become the act, which would be the more powers. Would you like that to include the power for whales to have an independence referendum? I think it should. Yes. Right. Oh, so you're asking for that as part of the, the whales bill that you want. We can discuss what goes into the bill.

33:01Oh, so you're not asking for that? I have already asked Andy Burnham for the rights to do that referendum ourselves. Right. That's a very public ask. That's a fundamental question of the right of self-determination and that it's the people of whales who should be able to decide their own future. And the timing of those, those questions. And, and, you know, we can, we can strip democracy back to its fundamental basics here. If we believe in people having the rights to define their future through the ballot box, if we believe that whales is a nation, well, through the ballot box in, in whales, we should be able to define our own constitutional future and choose governments now that first and foremost, for me, deals with those issues every day, cost of living health education, which are important. I mean, would the, would, I don't know, applied majority at the next elections for the Senate be the proof that it's time for a referendum? So, no, I was asked that question before the election. Now, what if you had a, a majority, what if you undegrees who were also in favour of Welsh independence had a majority between you?

34:04Do you say that is the trigger? And I said no, because we know what the polling tells us about public opinion, huge shift in favour of, of independence, but we're not there yet. And I don't find that difficult to say at all, we are on a journey. And I have a privileged role of being able to lead that debate on where we go and how brave we're willing to be. But I also have that privileged role right here today of trying to improve people's lives, tackling the cost of living, improving health services, raising education standards, creating better jobs, because I don't wait for that to happen. There's a sense, how, how, how can you think about the future of Wales when you should be concentrating on, on things in the here and now? We can do both. Yeah. Just a couple of other things before you go off and speak to your, your international diplomatic contacts. Doctor Who famously been made in Cardiff for the last few years, but the BBC is putting it

35:05out to tender. So, asking other companies to bid to make it in future. One of the bids is from Scotland. How would you feel about the tardest moving to Glasgow or somewhere else in Scotland and leaving Wales? Well, clearly, I want Wales is very, very strong creative sector that gave us, you know, so much pleasure through Doctor Who in recent years to be the home of it, of it still. We have so much to offer in our creative sector. And Doctor Who has been in many ways a flag spaceship, but there are many other flags that we fly. I hope clearly that we can keep Doctor Who, but we've got lots and lots and lots going on in the creative sector in Wales in many ways. Okay. And just tell me just to add one thing that going into office, the job you wanted for ages that's really surprised you about what it's actually like being for a minister. I mean, it's the possible. How quickly things can get done. How you're able to use the civil service and

36:09the brilliant people in it to get things moving for you. Frustration, in that you want things done yesterday. Because, you know, we have a vision for Wales, but it's that real sense of we have a massive opportunity here. There's a lot of goodwill behind what we're trying to do. I don't conflate that with political support always, but real goodwill. Show us what you can do. And I'm really proud that already we have done so much, but it's just the beginning. Right. Thanks for coming in to see us on newscast. Thank you. And that's all for this bonus Welsh themed episode of newscast. We will be back with a normal themed episode of newscast. Bye bye. Newscast. Newscast from the BBC. From one newscaster to another, thank you so much for making it to the end of this episode. You clearly do, in the words of Chris Mason, ooze stamina. Can I also gently encourage you to subscribe to us on BBC sounds? Tell everyone you know, and don't forget you can email us anytime at newscast at

37:14BBC.co.uk or if you're that way inclined, send us a WhatsApp on plus or four zero three three zero one two three nine four eight oh be assured I promise you listen to everyone. Energy, carbon and supply chain data are vital signs for your business, but when those signals sit in separate systems, it's hard to see the bigger picture. Resource advisor plus brings them together, helping you make more informed decisions. Resource advisor plus from SE Advisory Services. See clearly, act early. Visit resourceadvisor.com slash vital signs.