Behind the Scenes Minis: Martian Skulls

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4:05Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History class, a production of iHeart Radio. Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy Fee Wilson. And I'm Holly Fry. This week we talked about Sarah Weiss and her journey to Mars. Indeed. A big question in my mind as I worked on this is how she knew about the stuff that she was including in the book that was related to life on earth. Because, oh, I'll just say I do not believe she was receiving psychic communications from a band of famous dead people on Mars. Tracy, what? You doubt her word? I don't think that was what was going on. I don't have an explanation for what was going on. I believe that she believed that. And so then my question is just like she seemed to have had at least a working knowledge of a number of 19th century scholars, naturalist writers, and also Gerrano Bruno.

5:19And the Gerrano Bruno part might make the most sense given that she had like a very religious upbringing that might have been something that she. And to contact with when she was only allowed to read religious works, even though he was a heretic, but she wasn't characterized as someone who was really like well or right or widely read. So I just have curiosity about what is your you seem to have an idea. Where does that characterization come from? It comes vaguely from her husband mostly. And so there it could just be how he was positioning her. How does she know these things? She wasn't allowed to read these things. Right. At all. I have questions. The number of letters that passed between him. And the cyclical investigator. Highslap, whatever his first name was. And it was a number of letters that if I had been in Adolf's place, I would have been annoyed because reading through the whole exchange.

6:28It's like, oh, I have one more thing. Oh, you have one more thing. I have one more thing. And I'm just like you are writing this man questions about his dead his dead wife. And then asking more of my new shirt every time he answers you. And I was like, I would have found that a little bit irritating. Maybe he wasn't. I mean, he seemed willing though to talk about her. Yeah. Is it like do you get the same level of irritated as somebody sends you five texts when you haven't answered the first one? No, but I would get irritated if every time I answered someone's question, they didn't seem to find the answer satisfactory and wanted to ask more questions. Fair, fair, maybe highslap was a little ADHD. And he was like, oh, I forgot to do. No, I got it. I mean, I don't know. Subposition on my part, obviously. It also is one of those things that if they were in a room together, it might have been just a completely normal, non-annoying conversation.

7:28But the fact that it was playing out in letters back and forth made me go, okay, I would be a little irritated if this was me. But is that just because letters are more of an arduous thing now than they would have been considered them? I don't know. Well, I think I would have a similar response if someone were emailing me. And I answered with what I thought would be the final answer. And then I would get a reply that made it seem like that answer was unsatisfactory. The last thing that I had noted as just a thing to mention, when we did our episode on Edward Bollward Litten, we didn't really talk much about his fiction and detail because that episode was more about his terrible relationship with his wife and her attempts to get out of that marriage. So this is kind of speculation on my part because when I was reading through who I was in the spirit band, I was like Edward Bollward Litten, that seems odd when we're also talking about Charles Darwin and other naturalists and whatever.

8:32And it's the most logical reason for him to be part of the spirit band does seem to be this, his works of fiction that seems thematically related to spiritualist movement. So one of these was a horror story called the haunted and the haunters or the house and the brain. There was also one called a strange story that had an element of mesmerism in the plot and may have been an influence on the novel Dracula. And then there was real the power of the coming race, which was about a subterranean race discovered by an American explorer that based on the brief summary I read may have had an influence on the osophy, which means this was almost another guest appearance by frequent podcast, poltergeist that's not the word that I'm looking for the specter that sometimes haunts the podcast.

9:32I know, but it wouldn't be the Halloween season without a matter of bluevotsky arrival. Yeah. I am under the impression that real is also rate it like it uses racist tropes and its descriptions of this race. But I have not read any of these books, but I thought it would be nice to say at least a little about what they were about if people were like why would that guy be in the spirit band. And mostly what we talked about was him being a politician who was awful to his wife. But also dabbled in sci fi. Yes. Sort of proto sci fi occult horror writing. So yeah, love. Yeah. I am pretty sure that Sarah Weiss is somebody that I stumbled across a mention of when I was looking for books written by people that might be unusual or interesting. I'm going to talk about on the show and then said this seems like a Halloween episode.

10:33I will save it for October. Love love. Here we are. Yeah. Time for October. This episode did the thing that previous episodes have done where it puts a song in my head and won't let it stop, but just find so I love the song. Oh, yeah. Just Elvis Castellas beyond belief. Okay. Because there's a line in it. It's like the canals of Mars, the Great Barrier Reef. I come to you beyond belief. It's one of my favorite favorite songs of all time. And I love it. So listen, I'll take any Elvis Castello song at any point in time. Yeah. I also had another, huh, that sounds familiar. I have not read Sarah Weiss's book. Right. At all. But the when we got to the part where we're talking about Von Humboldt, I think that's what I was talking about. I was talking about her spirit guy. I don't know if I'm too tall. I'm in any kind of real parlance. You know, discussing like the ways that humans have to be better and take care of one another, I was like.

11:37I would bet you $3 billion that Kurt Von Aguette read this. Because it sounds so much like some of his writing. Yeah. So much like some of his writing. It's documented anywhere. So I would not be at all surprised if that was an influence. Yeah. I did not get the impression. I did not try to go find like hard sales numbers or anything. But I didn't get the impression that this book was enormously widely read. It is 600 pages long. And I did not read the whole 600 pages. But what I did read of it was kind of ponderous in places. And so I think that given the attitudes at the time, the things that people were excited about, the overlap with both Mars and the spiritualist movement. It might have been a bigger success. Had it not been 600 pages long. Yeah. Which there are plenty of long books that have become huge hits.

12:41But long and also dreary to read in places is just not an amazing combo for a best seller most of the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still thinking about Kurt Von Aguette because I'm like, oh, this is also a little bit of like shades of Billy Pilgrim in slaughterhouse five. Oh, yeah. Going to Trial Fomidor. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Trial Fomidor. I always do that one wrong. Hmm. I have always said it in my head the way you just said it. I said it two different ways, which one did you mean the first one? Gotcha. The first the first way. Yeah. It came up in a discussion once I was talking with friend of the show, Brian Young. You know, he did the Von Aguette episode with me that we had live. Mm-hmm. That last year. And then I remember us talking about it and me saying, I've been saying it wrong all this time. It's really this. And now I don't remember which is which because my brain has decided to stop recording information. Apparently it's fine. It's fine. There are innumerable things that I learned to say by reading them and later learned that

13:50I was not saying them correctly. Sometimes because they were sounded out and they are not pronounced the way they are spelled. But sometimes because I just misread the letters in them and came up with a different pronunciation, including letters that aren't actually there. I mean, I think we've all done that. I don't remember where I read it somewhere on the internet, at one point on it was probably on Twitter back in the day, that someone had pointed out like, you know, when you encounter someone who is clearly very smart and educated and they mispronounce a word that you think is obvious. What that means is that they learned it by reading and there's no shame in that. I was like, that's a great way to look at it. I've also had things that I learned from teachers who taught me the incorrect way to say things. Oh, yeah. I think we had a discussion about the French word for snow once and I was like, that's not how you say that word. We all have those for sure. Yeah. We have definitely gotten emails about how we have pronounced Newfoundland when we pronounced it the way it is in US dictionaries.

14:53Yeah. And when I was taught the provinces of Canada in school, it's not how we said it. Nope. Anyway, Sarah Wice, interesting person. I wish we knew more about her life beyond this book and how much of the, oh, she never read was just PR spin by her, her husband. So YouTube premium, it takes something you already love that being YouTube and it makes it even better, not just the experience, but the content, the creators. The feeling of finding exactly what you're into for every mood, every moment of your day, premium transforms that experience into a more supercharged enhanced way to enjoy YouTube. Yeah, folks, a YouTube premium experience gives you access to exclusive YouTube features and benefits and these are real game changers for us. Oh, yeah, that includes what is not limited to add free viewing of YouTube.

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16:53Those small conversations shared laughs and quick hello's are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T guarantee. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit ATT.com slash guarantee for details. So you're considering getting a home security system but you want something that fits your space. Well, with AT&T blue it's easy to customize a system that's right for you and set it up yourself. Just pick the kit and monitoring plan that makes sense for your home. Let's say you're worried about package theft. The AT&T plus app can walk you through setting up a new doorbell camera kit once it's installed. AT&T pros can help you keep tabs on it 24-7 or you can manage it yourself from the AT&T plus app. There are no long-term contracts so you can change your monitoring plan whenever you want. The flexibility doesn't end there.

17:54You can add to your system as you need to with things like extra cameras or motion sensors. Some life decisions are hard but thanks to AT&T blue you can DIY trusted AT&T home security in a snap. Head to ADT.com slash B-L-U to build your system today. And to hear more about home protection and other grown-up topics check out new episodes of grown-up stuff on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Guess who's back in the house? The old Gays returned for season 2 of Silver Linings. They're hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with Veeve Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McBill and Jess A have in store this time around. They strep back down memory lane navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits.

18:57These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to silver linings available on iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart podcast. You know what I love about cooking? The endless inspiration, sharing exceptional flavors. And of course, the best ingredients. I refuse to make a dish without them. McCormick has been and is an essential in the kitchen. Now McCormick's new line of signature seasonings make bringing fresh inspiration and endless versatility to everyday dishes easier than ever. There's the everyday essential garlic and olive oil, the savory sweetness of caramelized onion, and globally inspired flavors like the herbie,

20:02with a touch of heat, chimichurri, and chili garlic that elevates everything from ramen to stir fry to even grilled meats. Try the chimichurri blend to make your steaks delicious. Each signature seasoning is crafted by flavor experts to make every dish more delicious. When you want to make your best, it's got to be McCormick. Find your favorite at mcormick.com. And we talked about screaming skulls this week. We did that. Yeah. Yeah. I love these because they're sort of kooky and delightful. Yeah. Like I said, I didn't mean to laugh at the dead, but the whole like he doesn't like to be handled a lot. He's fine if you're nice to him. And then if you do too much, he lets you know, and I'm like, I have a cat like that. Yeah. If you never make eye contact with him, he might come get on your lap. Maybe, maybe that'd be great. Here is an interesting thing.

21:06I believe that the off-less brome was maybe continuing a kooky family tradition in making bizarre requests of how his remains were to be handled. Because there's another brome in English history. As you'll recall, perhaps from that episode, we mentioned that the off-less is one of the Warwick bromes. And there was another brome named Nicholas Brome in Warwick in the early 1500s who died. I'm guessing they were related. But I didn't find a direct like family tree that put them together. Right. But I also like got a little fed up and didn't go down that rabbit hole a super long time. But Nicholas had his own kooky request. He might actually be a future episode. But he came up because in looking for newspaper accounts about this, people were like, there was at least one or two that came up where they were like, this is like this other guy. But they don't necessarily like go so far as to say they're 100% related.

22:10But this one had done some things in his life. He apparently murdered a couple people. And as penance in his will. He wrote, I request that my body be buried within the parish church of Battlesley Clinton, where people may tread upon me when they come into the church. So he basically was trying to like prostrate himself and have people walk over him for eternity as a way to atone for his sins. And I'm like, is this a family thing? Do you guys just talk about the weird ways you might be buried? But I also love it. Yeah, I also love it. It's just a little kooky. Yeah. I didn't mention the screaming skull, the classic mid 20th century movie. Because it's so not the same thing. But in case anybody was like, hey, Holly, you like old weird horror movies. Why didn't you mention it just because it didn't it would have been a weird detour. And we could have done it, but I didn't feel like that's all that's the whole story.

23:13Okay. I kind of want to come up with a way that I can make people think I'm haunting them after I'm gone. But I also want to be cremated. So this could be a problem. Yeah. Maybe I can imbue at least in writing some meaning to one of the many kooky toys I have. And be like, if you don't treat this doll with respect, you don't treat this greed or action figure with respect. Mahant you come back and hunt everyone. Mahant you. Yeah. It will be the fun kind of haunting. I'm not going to make you cocktails. I'm not going to hang out and giggle. Yeah. I don't know what I do, but silly things silly things. I like that we're into Halloween time. I can tell you that. Yeah. I was going through all the episodes that we were recording today. I'm thinking these are pretty, pretty fun for the most part. Yeah. We have some good Halloweeners this year. Yeah. We have one coming up that I'm really excited about that involves candy discussion.

24:16Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got some murder on deck. Yeah. We got some fun kooky things. Yeah. Who knows? And then I came across another thing. One of my friends was like, hey, you should do this. And I was like, ugh, I might have to be next year because I think I have plotted out all of October's doings that I was going to do. So yeah. We'll see. It's another exhibition. But more of a grave robin. And it was one that I came across when we were making criminelia because we did a grave robbing season. And we didn't we didn't do an episode out of it for whatever reason. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I would actually be pretty fun to talk about because it's, you know, got some old Hollywood goodness and some wacky grave robin. My favorite. Yeah. I did not like some of the ways that the second skull was talked about. And at the time in this episode. Oh, yeah. Um, because like somebody looking at the skull and going, oh, here are some negative traces associated with the skull.

25:21I'm a medical student. Yeah. Like I that just feels super racist to me that. Oh, it is. Sounds like here are traits about the skull that I think are bad. And therefore it must have been. And that like there's no evidence of any of that. I have I haven't read the paper that eventually concluded that it was the skull of a woman or like what what criteria were used to make that determination. Well, and that's an interesting thing to bring up because there are people today who are like that was the same thing. Like they didn't do DNA testing that anybody knows of. They didn't do any like scientific. They literally did the same thing of like an examination. Yeah. YouTube premium takes something you already love, which is YouTube and makes it even better. The content, the creators, the feeling of finding exactly what you're into for every mood and moment of your day.

26:21Premium transforms that experience into a more supercharged and hands way to enjoy YouTube. Premium subscription gives you access to exclusive YouTube features and benefits, including but not limited to add free uninterrupted videos. Background play, which lets you keep listening even when your screen is locked. I know when I have a YouTube video playing and I'm walking around the kitchen and I instinctively turn the screen off. Having the video stop is annoying and downloading your videos so you can watch them anywhere, even without a Wi-Fi connection. Whenever I'm traveling, if I'm going to be away from Wi-Fi for a while, I love having things that are loaded up and ready to go so I don't have to worry about it. Smart downloads also automatically downloads videos by your favorite creators. So even if you forget to download things ahead of time, premium has you covered. So if you like YouTube, you will love premium. Sign up now for your free trial, terms and conditions apply.

27:21Guess who's back in the house? The old Gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from IHART's Ruby Studio in partnership with Veeve Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McBill and Jess A have in store this time around. They strep back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bath houses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the Silver Linings you can take with you. All SaaS, Zero Filter, and Decades of Perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings available on the IHART radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

28:22I'm Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart podcast. You know what I love about cooking? The endless inspiration, sharing exceptional flavors. And of course, the best ingredients. I refuse to make a dish without them. McCormick has been and is an essential in the kitchen. Now McCormick's new line of signature seasonings make bringing fresh inspiration and endless versatility to everyday dishes easier than ever. There's the everyday essential, garlic and olive oil, the savory sweetness of caramelized onion, and globally inspired flavors like the Herbie with a touch of heat, chimichurri, and chili garlic that elevates everything from ramen to stir fry to even grilled meats. Try the chimichurri blend to make your steaks delicious. Each signature seasoning is crafted by flavor experts to make every dish more delicious. When you want to make your best, it's got to be McCormick. Find your favorite at McCormick.com.

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31:39There are incredible things that you can figure out about skulls nowadays. Oh, yeah. Yeah, including like studying the isotopes in there to figure out where a person actually, yeah, grew up, but like I don't, I don't know what kind of assessment was made, but like it adds a weird layer to a story that had come along with this murder discussion. And we don't know whether it's the victim or the perpetrator and then also a medical student was like, oh, that's this is what I think this person skull was. Well, there's like a lot of a lot of one. There's a lot of made up stuff like people are just making a blur about this skull and two, you know, when it comes to that medical student, they knew about the skull and they were going hoping to look at it. So I feel like it's just a bunch of confirmation bias on his part. Oh, sure, sure. Like in no point was he really entertaining the idea that the skull was anything else. Yeah, he's like, yes, yes, yes. Of course, but also we don't know if that narrative is even real. We don't know who Miss Garnett was. Yeah.

32:51Or who this mystery medical student was. So there's so much haziness around that particular one. Right. You know, it's all a mess. It's all a mess. So it is. I don't get me wrong. I love it. I love a mess. But also I love like it's just a great piece of evidence of the way people just want to believe stuff. Right. Like even judge Udall goes and he goes through all the family records on Nevis and he's reading up. But even he is like, and I'm going to make a big jump of logic to like, put these two pieces of information I have match up in a way that seems to align with the previously established lore that isn't in any way verifiable either it's just one problem after another. And because when you look at it and they're like, there is the idea that you know, as a riot penny somehow had, I mean, if you go by the original story that often gets told that he had somehow brought a person back with him. From the Caribbean. But then that isn't supported by the documentation on Nevis. But people still repeat that version of the story like the timeline is just messiest heck.

34:02There's just, you know, the whole thing is a big gobbledy gook of like, we wanted to make up a scary and wacky story. I don't know. Yeah, like, oh, bless your hearts. But yes, it is inherently racist to presume that you could look at a skull and know what race the person was. Unless you're dealing with like some sort of skull that evidence is manipulation that's done in specific culture. Yeah, other than that, there's not really a way. I just wanted to make sure we can have you out of that in case somebody went, no, there are some ways. No, I'm reminded of the whole pseudo science of chronology and man, chronology just, yeah, chronology pops up in places. And in fact, not in an episode that we're doing soon. But I might mention it behind the scenes. There was a, a chronology jump scare in the research. No, no. Yeah, but it was so minor. It wasn't it had no impact on the story. We're telling. And I was like, whatever, we may mention this later.

35:07Yeah, we've talked about a couple of episodes about the people that like developed whole collections of skulls to try to make arguments about racial worth basically. And yeah, so anyway, made me feel a big big fibby arguments. Anyway, listen, if this is your weekend coming up, I hope you don't get haunted by a skull screaming or otherwise. Or maybe I hope you do. It's Halloween season. If you're in New York, go for it. I hope that your whatever ghost may visit you are our peaceful and cool or they just want to hang out and have a have a giggle. I don't know. Whatever works is great. If you have time off this weekend, I also hope that you are taking care of yourself. You're doing something restful and restorative. Whatever that is. You don't have to be ambitious. You just sit on your couch and watch cartoons. That sounds great to me. If you have obligations, if you got a, you know, run errands, get groceries, move with the lawn, ferry people around to their various activities, et cetera. I still hope that you steal a little time to just be chill and quiet with yourself or do whatever it is to delight you maybe getting on a roller coaster. I don't know.

36:15I'm not the boss of you. That's the beauty of it. But I hope it's a great weekend. I hope everyone takes care of each other and that we all remember to be kind. We will be right back here on Monday with a brand new episode. We will also be back here tomorrow with a classic. Stuff you missed in history class is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future in season seven of untold stories life with a severe autoimmune condition. Most martine hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP and the broader rare disease community exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress and connection produced by Ruby Studio and partnership with our Genics.

37:20Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You ever show up late to the game and your friends already saved your seat, your drink, even a plate. That's looking out. That's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T guarantee. They know staying connected matters. So they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity. You can depend on or they'll proactively make it right. Just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask AT&T connecting changes everything terms and conditions apply. Visit AT&T.com slash guarantee for details.

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