Barstool Sports’ Kevin Clancy’s advice? Don’t start a podcast

0:00This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human Tax season has arrived. And doing taxes without the right help can feel overwhelming. Into it TurboTax is here now to guide you through it with confidence. Match with a TurboTax full service expert who handles everything for you. From start to finish, your dedicated expert checks every single deduction and credit to help you get the best possible outcome so you can feel confident you're getting every dollar you deserve. And the best part? You'll see real-time updates on your expert's progress right on your phone while you live your life. Plus, you get unlimited expert help at no extra cost, even on nights and weekends during tax season. Visit TurboTax.com. Only available with TurboTax full service experts, real-time updates only on iOS mobile app. You know what I could really go for right now? Literally anything that comes in a McDonald's carton, wrapper, or bag, or a McDonald's cup. Yes, any of those items should do it. We've got your cravings covered. Now, stop in for the flaky filet of fish.

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3:02In Barcelona we call it in the mud. Like, I lived in the mud. I had mud gills. I could breathe in the mud. Yes. Now I'm like, I just want to tell some jokes. Make some money and get out there. Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti-anxiety antidote. Today's guest is a little different for us, but I promise it's going to be a great conversation. Because he's great at conversation. I first came across him some years ago when bar stool sports was just starting to pop. And my husband was a fan, but I'd also see things come across like my socials that I thought were really funny or interesting or wild. And maybe because I'm from Boston. And there was something about, like, I just got it. I got it right away. And it's founder Dave Portnoy, grew up on the South Shore. I grew up in the North Shore. Started as a Boston area newsletter. So I think we knew it before a lot of folks like we're onto it. And then in 2009, Portnoy hires a guy to open a bar stool New York City. And then it really took off like gangbusters.

4:04Well, that guy, Kevin Clancy, maybe you know him as KFC is my guest today. And I'm thrilled to have him. We met a few years back at bar stool New York headquarters. If you're not following him on TikTok and YouTube, you should. He does these great posts sort of like summing up news stories from all walks of life, from politics to sports to pop culture. It's great content. Welcome to Off the Cop, Kevin Clancy. What a great introduction that was. That was a great plug. Well done. Thank you. I do this for a living. I know what I was going to say. Usually, usually people say terrible things about me on the internet. It's nice to hear somebody be nice. I think you're fantastic at what you do. And you comment it so naturally. You know, I was going to, I was going to save this for sort of later in the pod. But. I came up through journalism at Cornell University. Okay. Worked at the New York Times for eight years. Yeah, I'm giving you my very fluffy resume. Um, New York Times worked at every major news outlet. I have a nationally syndicated weekly newspaper column.

5:07I have broadcast 25 years. No, all I'm saying is I came up through journalism. Yeah. I think you know more about media today than I ever could. Because you came up through new media. Yeah. At a time when everything was changing. Yeah. Yeah. I would, uh, I would say that might be true only because I've just been immersed in it for like 15 years and all the changes. Yes. And that's the main thing is like I always try to stay a little bit ahead of the curve. Like when we started, we were just writing blogs. And I was like, we need to get into podcasting. And then from podcasting, I was like, I think short form video is coming. And so every, I'm always trying to stay one step ahead. Honestly, because there's so many talented people and educated people like yourself. And like you got to keep up. And so I'm just always kind of ears and eyes peeled for like what's next? What medium new app? So yeah, almost by necessity. I probably am pretty well versed in all this.

6:08You are. And we all have to be today because we all have to like future proof, right? Like what's the next thing? And am I going to be left behind? And if I don't know this new technology or if I'm not speaking to this new audience, I'm going to be left behind. And really hard to keep up. But I think because of when you came to bar stool and when things were all changing, you really, I mean, you've really perfected this. And I think, like I said, you're really natural at everything that you do. It's funny because when I started, we were writing just writing blogs. You had to go to a URL website. And there were just posts you could click on. And some of them were long form, meaning like several paragraphs. And then there was, you know, short form bites of humor and information. And now I just do that on video. It's right. Literally the same stuff I would have written. And you would have just read at work, you know, at your cube. It's now being consumed in like a one to three minute video. Yeah. Well, in a weird way, I'm actually like the same.

7:09And I've been doing this forever. But it's it is new and evolved. Totally. And I want to get more into all the things. But it's really funny to see you sort of blossom on social media. Thank you. You'll always be KFC to me. I think that's how I have you stored in my phone. But I think with your social media stuff, more people are coming to know you as Kevin. Yes. Is there some liberation in that? Yeah. Well, I just remember it really happening with Dave Portanoi, the owner and founder of our stool. He was L. Pres, L. Presidente, stool presidente. Yeah. And then he started to do his pizza reviews and then, you know, the COVID fund where he like kept the country afloat. Yeah. And it became Dave Portanoi and Dave. And and I think there's something to that. Like I can I use the nickname KFC. Those are my initials when I was early on my career. I had a job as an accountant while I was growing bar stool. And I didn't want either to know about it. Right. Where I had like a little suited. I'm not a very good one. It's just my initials.

8:09I'm not going to be Kevin Clancy. And now that I'm entrenched in it and this is what I'm doing, I kind of want people to know my name and know me. Right. And you know, I'm always very honest and real. But I'd be lying if I if I didn't say that like KFC, it was sometimes an exaggerated or you know, character enthusiastic version. So I'm happy that if people know me as my name going forward, I would be happy about that. Yeah. And I think more and more people are. Let's start with your decision to end your very popular podcast. KFC Radio with fights, right? Yeah. Yeah. We had greener pastures. Well, tell me, tell me about that decision because that was really popular. And I'm sure that was a tough tough call. It was. I went through every emotion because so we started the podcast in 2012. So like really, you know, pretty ahead of the curve on that at the time. Yeah. You know, it was like Joe Rogan, Bill Simmons and Chris Hardwick at Nerdist were like the only ones I knew of. Yeah. So we were, we were early on that and we had a very good run.

9:09We were, we really hit our stride when the comedy world started to like we both went up the comedy world and our podcast at the same time. Then we both kind of helped each other out. And then I think as the comedy bubble, not burst because those guys are still doing great. But it went from like the most popular thing on the internet to you know, having, having its downturn. And so we, we kind of plateaued as far as growth goes. And we were, we're so natural at it that I was sort of like I could do this forever. Like we could just, we're going to have conversations, we might as well record them and put them out. But then it got to the point where John was starting to do a little bit of acting and he started to do stand up. And I started to really take off with everything you just described with media. And so it started to become like an opportunity cost of like is this the best use of our time. And, and I also think that like, you know, you, you tend to just kind of get complacent. Yeah. Like, like I said, you got to keep up, you got to keep ahead. Yeah. I'm doing a long form, multiple hour, sit down, audio, podcasts.

10:09I just don't think is where things are headed. And so it just felt like it wasn't the best use of our time anymore and time to kind of restart and get some like enthusiasm for our new projects. But I went through every emotion because at first I had every, I was totally at peace. I was like, this is the right decision, personally, professionally, statistically, all that. Then when it came time to do it, I realized like, oh, wow, this is over. Yeah. And so then I got sad. Yeah. Then the reaction from the fans, I went through a fear reaction because despite how I think successful I've been, there are a lot of people at barstool, the dark barstool, diehard fans really pick their favorites and they're not favorites in the clicks and the halves and have nots. And I generally am one of the people they don't like. So I was afraid to announce the end. I almost didn't want to do it for the other people on the show because I was like, they're going to be so many people hating me and making fun of me. Like, who cares? We never even watched that show that I didn't want that to be the reaction for my co-workers. Yeah. That was afraid to announce it. Yeah.

11:09Then the reaction was so positive and like, it was like this outpouring of love that I was so surprised. And then I got angry because the reaction was so many of the diehards who I loved the death were like, what can I do to save the show? And I'm thinking to myself, well, what you could have done was subscribe by a t-shirt, like all things I've been asking for all these years. If you did all those, we would have been going up. So it was like the seven stages of grief but I ultimately really believe it was the right decision. And I think you're going to start to see, and I think maybe already have, if you're keeping an eye out, that multiple shows are starting to end. And I wonder if there really was just kind of a natural life cycle of some of these where it's like, we had a good run, but if you're trying to keep going, it's time to adapt. You know what I could really go for right now? Literally anything that comes in a McDonald's carton, wrapper, or bag, or a McDonald's cup.

12:15Yes, any of those items you do it. We've got your cravings covered. Now, stop in for the flaky filet of fish. The crispy snack wrap, or a large fries for just $2.99. Limited time only, price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Honey, snap out of it. Oh, sorry, just dreaming about updating our kitchen. Well, stop dreaming and let's do it. We can't afford that, and we don't have the equity in our house yet to do a home equity loan. We can afford it with Renify. It's a new kind of home equity loan that lets us borrow based on the value of our home after we make our renovations. Oh, wow. Well, I'm also dreaming of a new bathroom. We can do that too. With Renify, we can get up to $750,000 and keep our existing low mortgage rate locked in so we can tackle every project on our list. Finish the basement for the kids. Yes, with Renify. Home office for me. Let's do it. Girl's trip to Tuscany. Oh, Renify doesn't do that. Renify.com. That's R-E-N-O-F-I dot com to receive a text message to see if you qualify for up to $750,000 to renovate your home with Renify.

13:18Unlock the future value of your home right now to get the money you need without refinancing. Visit Renify.com or R-E-N-O-F-I dot com to get started today. N-M-L-S number 1802847. Terms apply. Not all borrowers are properties qualify. California Department of Real Estate license number 02195141. And N-M-L-S number 241-2747. Equal opportunity broker. This is Wadi WK from a really good cry. A lot of wellness routines start with motivation and then somewhere between week two and a half-use supplement draw. Greens was created to make daily nutrition simpler. Instead of pills or chalky green drinks. Greens packed over 20 essential vitamins and minerals. Greens and prebiotics into a snack pack of delicious gummies. It feels approachable and not demanding. The convenient comprehensive formula supports gut health, beauty, energy, immunity recovery and cognition in one daily habit. Greens contains 6 grams of fiber which is more than 2 cups of broccoli. And then ingredients in greens are backed by 35,000 research publications. Which is part of what makes the formula so intentional. Greens is vegan, gluten-free, dairy-free, nut-free and made without artificial colours or flavours.

14:21Plus it's methylated so key nutrients like B12 and folate are informs your body can actually use. It's comprehensive nutrition designed for routines you can actually stick with. Get up to 52% off with code cry at groons.co. That's code cry at gruns.co Doing taxes the old way meant handing everything off and just hoping things were moving. But now you can feel confident your taxes are being handled right. With into it turbo tax. Now you match with a turbo tax full service expert. Just upload your documents right in the app and boom they take it from there. Start to finish you've got a dedicated expert working your return. They check every deduction and credit to help you get the best possible outcome. So you can feel confident you're getting every dollar you deserve. And now you're not guessing what's happening, you're seeing it happen. Turbo tax gives you real time updates on your expert's progress while you go about your day. Run errands, grab a coffee, live your life, you're always in the loop.

15:22And if a question pops up you've got unlimited expert help at no extra cost. Even on nights and weekends during tax season. Taxes are finally transparent, easier and handled. Visit TurboTax.com. Only available with TurboTax full service experts, real time updates only an iOS mobile app. You see it instantly, it's cold water creek, the mark of exceptional workmanship. And signature touches inspired by a mountain west heritage. Distinctive styles created from quality fabrics, silhouettes perfected with just the right drape. Feel good fits, offering ease of movement and thoughtful details to elevate your look. For a wardrobe you can count on season after season, visit coldwatercreek.com. Shop the new spring collection at 20% off $75 or more with code iHeart20. Well you teased when you ended the show, you teased new things you wanted to do. What can you tell me about any of those things? So my like dream would be to take one minute man, which is the name I have for my series on social media.

16:25Which again, if you're not familiar, it's like reels on Instagram is the main thing. So quick one to three minute videos where I give you the news and a couple jokes and some commentary. I would love to build that out into like a YouTube show, not like multiple hours but a little bit like 15, 20, 30 minutes long. And my vision for it is almost like the daily show, but instead of politics, pop culture, entertainment, the general internet. But I'm just like, I really, I know that you, another thing I've learned throughout this is when you start something new, you got to be in the right space, you got to be ready to go all in. Right. And in the grand scheme of things after like a 15 year run, it's been, you know, three months, you know, and some trying to just make sure I'm really ready to do that. We're getting a set design, we're getting producers line, you know, all that sort of stuff. So some variation of the social media into a YouTube show would be the plan. And on social, you're at KFC bar stool and on YouTube, you're KFC radio for people to follow.

17:27And I think I'm sure you know this, but so many people in my business are starting to go out on their own, either because they have to, you know, because there've been a lot of layoffs in the industry is contracting. Or because they want to, they want more independence, but it's a really scary thing to do. I'm sure you've thought about it at some point. Do you ever think you'll go out on your own? I hope not. I mean, I, I, I would be a fool to say like the writing is on the wall a little bit in certain ways of bar stool. A lot of things that move to Chicago, Dave is down in Florida. We're kind of fragmented now. Yeah. They went down a, a big root of gambling. I'm not a gambler. So there's certain things where I'm like, I would be an idiot to say that I'm still entrenched in bar stool the same way I was. But I, I was a big piece of building it. I've grown accustomed to it. It's kind of synonymous with who I am. I think I could do it without them. It would be a big, you know, I take a step back and I have to build my way up. Yeah. I'm going to have a paycheck. Yeah. I think I can do it. It's just a matter of whether I really want to do it.

18:27I don't know if I want to do it. So I hope that we, we stay together forever. Sure. But you're right. I think sometimes you have to make the decision to kind of pull the plug or make, make a move. And it is a scary one. It's tough when someone else is paying you and telling you what the job is. And it comes with producers and lawyers and lawyers in my business. That's very important because we get sued all the time. Yeah. And resources like it's just tough to leave all that. Yeah. And, you know, I've been dipping a little bit into like substack again to like future proof because I don't know how long I'll be in legacy media. I don't know how long I'll be at CNN. Right. I'm going into my 14th year. I'd like to think that that train will keep going, but you never know. I'm with you. Yep. Right. And so, but it's really scary. But all the people I talked to who have left either because they had to where they wanted to say it's really liberating and like really exciting and creative. I'm sure that's true. But that's right. Yeah.

19:27I mean, here's the thing. I bet that's true when it works. Exactly. You never hear from the people who for whom it does not work. Right. And like if I could look in a crystal ball and tell you, you will stand on your own too. You won't miss a beat. You're going to make more money. All the money is yours. Yeah. You don't have to deal with any co-workers or drama, whatever. Yeah. You wouldn't do that. Right. Right. But there's no guarantee of any of that. If you can guarantee me that the numbers I play are going to hit. I'll buy the lottery tickets. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I'm with you. How did you figure out what was going to work on on like TikTok and social media? I just started maybe like a year ago actually to launch this podcast. I got on TikTok and I've been on Instagram for a while. But like it took me a long time to figure out what was going to like really resonate with people. And it wasn't what I thought it was going to be. How did you figure it out? Well, I will say this just to be clear to you. Like I know what you meant more like kind of short form videos. But when you say like, how did I figure out what works on TikTok? I really haven't. TikTok specifically. Like I crush it on Instagram.

20:27Yeah. And I really believe I am one of the most like per capita based on your followers. I think I'd get maybe more views than like anyone on the planet. Yeah. And it's the same in my mind. It's the same type of app. Short form videos. Kills on Instagram. Nothing on TikTok. Yes, I'm the same. But nothing. So I'm like, I haven't figured it out. But in terms of Instagram, I started those videos in like 2017. Yeah. And they all had different variations. In the beginning, I was just sitting in a chair. Mm-hmm. Whole background. Just talking. Then we did like highly produced ones where I had a cameraman and they didn't edit afterwards. And then slowly but surely once the green screen like. Yeah. Filter, I guess you call it. Yeah. It's easy. You love that. And I went. And that's actually kind of what I'm most about myself is even starting the podcast. My brother, who's my producer now, was the one who was like, you have to do podcasts. I grew up listening to sports radio. Yeah. So I was very used to callers calling in and talking to the host.

21:29But I didn't have a radio station. I didn't have means to do that. Yeah. So, but my brother kind of researched it. And this was right when Google Voice came out and you could call a phone number and leave a voice mail. Mm-hmm. And then I realized that could just act as a caller. And then I was like, now we go. Yeah. So like there's often a technological barrier. Right. That means you figure it out or the industry figures it out. Then I go pedal to the metal because it all kind of falls into place. Yeah. You're younger than me. But do you ever feel old? Like we're making content on these platforms for the kids? Yeah. And by the time we figure it out, they'll be on to some other thing. That's how I feel all the time. Dude, I mean, I go to work now and there are like 20 year olds. I know. How dare they? Right. Like, who do you think you are being younger? Yes. I mean, when I started, I was 25. And then, you know, when you're working at a bar stool, your 30s are kind of your 20s. You know, you get stuck in this perpetual Peter Pan Neverland world. Especially in New York City, where you don't have to like own a house or a car.

22:31Right. You can just stay forever. Yes. And then, you know, I had kids, got a house in the burbs and that really started to separate me. And now, you know, now I go to work and I'm like, six seven. And then like, you should jump over it, you know. Yeah. And they're like, that meme is dead. It died last year. I do think I'm a little like, when I talk to my friends, like my dad friends who just like normal jobs. Yeah. They might as well be dead, you know. So I'm still like a little, I know the between or the music or whatever, but like barely hanging on for for your life. You know, the hardest part for me, I don't know if you're there yet. Well, you're probably there. Um, the hardest thing for me was when I started to be older than baseball players. There's one, two, I think there's two professional athletes. Maybe three left that are that are over with me. That's it. I think it's, I think it's Ovechkin, Aaron Rogers and like LeBron, me and LeBron are like really close. Right. Otherwise, I'm older than all of them.

23:31And I find myself like idolizing them and calling them my hero. And I'm like, like Juan Soto's on the meds. I'm like, this man, this man is my hero. He's 27. I know. I know. Crazy. It's not, it's not okay. No, it's really neat. But as much as I say that, I also really pride myself on aging appropriately and aging. I age with my audience. They age with me. Yeah. I know there's no other way to do it. Yeah. Yeah, right. Well, I don't know though. There are some people, you know, try to party and stay. Oh, yeah. And all that. And then just I can't do it. And Sam, I think even, and then give you hold on for that. You can probably have more success right now. Right. Appealing to the younger 18 to 24 or whatever. Yeah. What? Like the long tail of that. I'd rather be steady than have a spike and then crash when you're like 40 or 50 because you have no relatability. You know what I mean? Yes.

24:31And I think the audience wants you to be authentic too. That's the other thing. Authenticity and genuine. Yeah. And so like when I was partying or hooking up or whatever, I was telling those stories. Right. Now I'm like, I was at a dance competition with my daughter all weekend. Yes, exactly. Those are my stories, you know. So I'll find the audience that cares about that. You know what I could really go for right now? Literally anything that comes in a McDonald's carton, rapper or bag. Or a McDonald's cup. Yes. Any of those items you do it. We've got your cravings covered. Now, stop in for the flaky filet of fish. The crispy snack wrap. Or a large fries for just $2.99. Limited time only. Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Honey. Sorry. I was dreaming about a new kitchen. Then let's do it. Renify lets us borrow based on our home's value after renovations. Up to $750,000.

25:32And we get to keep our low mortgage rate. New bathroom. Yes. Finished basement. Yes. Renify doesn't do that. Visit renify.com to receive a text to see if you qualify for up to $750,000 to renovate your home with Renify. That's r-e-n-o-f-i.com. NMLS number 1802847. Terms apply. Not all bars are properties qualify. Equal opportunity broker. This is Riley W. K. from a really good cry. A lot of wellness routines start with motivation and then somewhere between week two and a half-use supplement draw. Greens was created to make daily nutrition simpler. Instead of pills or chalky green drinks. Greens packed over 20 essential vitamins and minerals. Greens and prebiotics into a snack pack of delicious gummies. It feels approachable and not demanding. The convenient comprehensive formula supports gut health, beauty, energy, immunity recovery and cognition in one daily habit. Greens contains 6 grams of fiber which is more than 2 cups of broccoli. And the ingredients in greens are backed by 35,000 research publications.

26:32Which is part of what makes the formula so intentional. Greens is vegan, gluten-free, dairy-free, nut-free and made without artificial colors or flavors. Plus it's methylated so key nutrients like B12 and folate are informs your body can actually use. It's comprehensive nutrition designed for routines you can actually stick with. Get up to 52% off with Code Cry at Greens.co. That's Code Cry at gruns.co. Doing taxes the old way meant handing everything off and just hoping things were moving. But now you can feel confident your taxes are being handled right. With Intuit, TurboTax. Now you match with a TurboTax full service expert. Just upload your documents right in the app and boom, they take it from there. Start to finish, you've got a dedicated expert working your return. They check every deduction and credit to help you get the best possible outcome. So you can feel confident you're getting every dollar you deserve. And now you're not guessing what's happening, you're seeing it happen. TurboTax gives you real time updates on your expert's progress while you go about your day.

27:36Run errands, grab a coffee, live your life, you're always in the loop. And if a question pops up, you get unlimited expert help at no extra cost even on nights and weekends during tax season. Taxes are finally transparent, easier and handled. Visit TurboTax.com. Only available with TurboTax full service experts, real time updates only an iOS mobile app. You see it instantly, it's Coldwater Creek, the mark of exceptional workmanship, and signature touches inspired by a mountain-west heritage. Distinctive styles created from quality fabrics, silhouettes perfected with just the right drape, feel-good fits, offering ease of movement, and thoughtful details to elevate your look. For a wardrobe you can count on season after season, visit ColdwaterCreek.com. Shop the new spring collection at 20% off $75 or more with Code I Heart 20.

28:52They know that I did a podcast, they've never heard it. If there were a career day at school, and you went in, what would you say your job is to a class full of students? When I started, I told people I was a sports blogger. At the time we did cover a lot of sports. And that's a job. And I remember telling my family that, and my mom, I did tell my mom, I said, it's covering sports, but it's a very irreverent, humorous guy's way. Not for you, she probably should just avoid it. And she has to say, she's never consumed a thing. Like that, on the other hand, I tell him I'm a sports blogger, and he's not really a sports guy. I get all my sports fandom from my mom, and I'm a dad. Okay. And so maybe, I don't know, six months or a year, however long it was, we're out like a family event. And he leans over to me and he goes, that is not a sports blogger. Okay. So, similar vibes now with the kids. Like, I remember, I dropped my daughter off to school.

29:54This is very young. He was like, there's a pre-k, you know? Yeah. And the teacher says to me, a drop-off line. She was like, I just want you to know, I'm a really big fan of your videos. Oh my God. Which is great. But the day before I had posted a video about Odell Beckham, a giant slide receiver, and some despicable things he had done in his private life. And I was like, she saw that video. But that's there's no way around that. So, um, the school pickup line is something, man, because I get it too. You know, like, whoa shit. What did I just say that they're going to be, you know, mad about or whatever. And especially I've been diving into politics a little bit. Yeah. I know that there are going to be some people who hate me automatically from what I say. And some people embrace me right away. I try to, I really try to just like separate church and state on that one. You know, just go into it. Like, I'm a dad. I'm just here. Right? Just like you. But it is. We're the same. Right? Yeah.

30:54Yeah. Yeah. I want to talk more about your career. But first, like, take me back. What kind of kid were you? Um, I played a lot, I did play a lot of sports, which is very funny for people to, to hear now because I, I had a bunch of surgeries and injuries. And then I became a, like, totally sedentary blogger. So when we, at bar, so we started to do these, like, athletic challenges or games, I was so slow and so bad at them. And they were like, this guy covers sports. And I was like, I swear to God, I used to, not very good. I, you know, played high school basketball and stuff like that. And I did grow up, like sports camps and sports leagues and all year round. So that was a big part of it. Um, but also very nerdy. Like, I played Magic the Gathering as like a fantasy card game. Oh, yeah. Marvel before it became Marvel. Like, all that stuff. So always had a little bit of like what, what you see today is like a little bit nerdy, a little bit sport. Yeah. It's definitely a whole vision and pop culture and entertainment. Um, so it really, it's kind of what you see is what you get even from a young age.

31:54Um, and then I would say, I went to college. I went to Fordham, which in my opinion has the best sports communication program out there. Maybe Syracuse, some people would say. But in Fordham, you get to, if you work for the radio, you're covering the jets, the giants, the nicks, the Yankees, the Mets. So I worked there for a little bit and I did have aspirations of being like an actual sports broadcaster analyst. Yeah. Very quickly realized you make no money. Right. And the, if you want an on air spot, like there's four of them in there. Good luck. Yeah. So I did start out trying to do that. Went down a different route just doing like generic finance for money. But then when I came back into media, I was sort of like, this wasn't the plan, but I do have a little bit of experience here. And it was almost like a muscle memory. Like I was able to kind of just dive back in. Yeah. What I had learned very briefly at the radio at Fordham. So it was not by design, but when I look at it, the way I grew up and some of the choices I made did kind of build towards this. Yeah. And I assume they're like, were you at a time?

32:55Were you at Deloitte? Yes. Yeah. Was there a time you were sort of in both worlds like working at Deloitte, right? And I imagine there came a time where you were like, I'm ready to leave your desk job and do this full time. But that's scary too. I've been there. Very. So as well. We started. Yeah. It was. So I went to Deloitte and that's where I learned about Barcelona. My coworker, Gil was his name. He showed me all the blogs. He's like, here's what I read when I'm miserable at work in Barcelona. Yeah. Fell in love with it. And I started my own website. And it's a very similar vein to barstool. It was like similar humor. And the only thing I added was like there was always an nostalgia. Remember the 90s type of vibe. Hmm. And I just strictly doing that for fun because I was like, I just need a release. An outlet. Because I suck it. Yeah. I hated it. And I was so bad at being in account. And to boot, I started working in 08, 0708 into 09. So. And I was working at Deloitte doing collateralized debt obligations. It was quite literally the exact moment the country went into an economic depression.

33:59Yeah. And I was working on the investments causing the depression. Oh, God. And when I started, it was, we were still good. Like for two months. And then it went down. And I was like, did I cause the downfall? Because I don't know what I'm doing. Real coincidental. So anyway, that all kind of coincides with Dave puts off a blog saying, I want to find a New York City writer. And I was like, I make good money. I got benefits. I've had all these surgeries. I can't mess with this. Right. My friends at the time started to really despite how much they hated it. They were like, it is pretty funny. You are good at this. Like. And so they said, you know, send, send it into Dave. And when I emailed him as my memory serves, he said something back to the effective. Like, I've already seen this. Somebody's already sent me your website. I've been keeping an eye on it. And that's when I was like, oh, okay. This is real. And so we kind of audition over that summer. This is summer of 09. And he narrows it down to me and one other guy, Keith Markovich. You might remember him, Kate Marko. Right. He said, I can't decide between you two. So split the job. Split the money.

34:59And you can keep your old job. That was perfect for me. Oh, that's what you wanted. Okay. I didn't have to give up anything. And my job at Deloitte was very unique in that we used to get all of our work for the month upfront. And they said, as long as you get this done, we don't care. Oh, wow. So I would work late, work weekends, whatever. Sometimes sitting at my desk, not doing Deloitte work, just doing blog work, because I'll get it done later. So it kind of was the perfect storm. Although one, one quick aside is the second day I officially started doing bar stool. Our firewall picked up the back end admin part of the dashboard of the blog. So I couldn't access the website. So like on day two, I was like, well, that's it. Like there goes the dream. And the guy, Keith, was nice enough to say email me your blogs. And I will cut and paste them in. Oh my God. The reason I have the job, because I probably would have said, you know, I don't, I don't think I can risk this yet. Yeah. That was a lucky break. And then for like two years, I did the accounting job and the bar stool job. Yeah.

35:59I always joke it's like Batman and Bruce Wayne or Walter White and high school. Totally. Like this dual life. And then bar stool started to grow. And everybody started to pick up more responsibility. And it was like, we can't really cover you as a part time guy anymore. And it basically was like time, you know, it's time to shit or get off the pot. Yeah. Like all this up, do you really want it to just like fade away? And by that point, Deloitte was ready to, Deloitte was trying to, Deloitte was trying to move me. They were like, we're going to move you to a consulting group because we think you'll have more success. At this point, I wanted to get fired. I wanted this ever. Yeah, sure. I wanted the copper benefits. Yeah. So I dug in and they were like, if you don't move departments, you're going to get fired. And I was like, great. And they were like, what is going on here? Yeah. I eventually get fired. I get my way. I get a little bit of severance. And then I went full time. And I never look back. But that, that early, I think a big part of my relatability and some of the success I had was I was writing a series called cubicle chronicles.

36:59And it was like, this is life in the cubes. Right. Email me their war stories and horror stories. And I could relate to it because I was doing it, you know. Yeah. Well, it made me very much like every, every man kind of character. Yeah. And it was honest. It worked. It really worked. So I got lucky. I wish I could tell you I was one of those guys who like, I jumped with no safety net, but I didn't. I kind of planned it so that it all overlapped. Yeah. I was the same. I was working at the New York Times. And it wasn't, it was a great job. I got benefits and all that. But I wasn't being published the way I wanted to. And so I wrote a book and I started doing like politics and stuff outside of the times while working at the Times. And sometimes I'd like, my coworker would be like, did I just see you? Like, did you just go do a fox hit on your lunch break? Yes. I love it. Yeah, you did. Yeah. I remember I was writing the blog. I had a, I had a blog. The blog before parcel that Dave noticed. Yep. I had up on my screen. Uh-huh. And the title of that was this silly phrase. Me and my friends used to say we used, we just say for sure not.

37:59Instead of no, thank you. Can you get me a beer for sure? Yeah. It was a stupid. I said it so much. And then he saw the banner on my computer. He looked over my shoulder and he goes, what is that? Uh-huh. And I was like, we got to go to lunch. Like, come with me. And I explained everything. Yeah. So I had one friend at work who knew that I'd deal. There was it on it. Yeah. When I got the email that I got the job at Barstool, I told him and we stood up in the cubes and we hugged. Yeah. And I was like, this is the best. It was like me like getting out of a bad neighborhood. Like, I can't. Totally know what you mean. Yeah. I waited for Severance to like, I waited because I'm, I'm not a risk taker. No, I'm not. When it comes to my career, I'm real smart and careful. Well, that's the thing is like, I say, I tell people I wish I could tell you I took the leap. Yeah. But I don't. I kind of like that. I was like, I kind of game the system until it worked out. Totally. Right. Sam, you know, if it was like a mom and pop, like I'm screwing over one guy to. Right. It was fucking annoying. It was like this massive. You know, they can, they can handle it. They can afford it. So. I felt the same way. Um, I imagine Barstool was, and maybe still it.

39:02And maybe still is, but like was very fun and exciting in the beginning as you're building it. And I've worked in that kind of environment. I've worked at a startup and it's so fun. And you feel like a kid and you're all kids like running around making this thing happen. And then at least in my case, like, especially as it gets more successful, it becomes more corporate. It turns into a real job. Like, did you go through any of that at Barstool when you were building it? Totally. It was also like in the beginning and for a decent amount of time, probably like six of us and then it grew to like eight or 10. But like still, I knew everyone personally. I hung out with everyone with friends. Yeah. With these friendly, you know. And then it's like we hire a corporate team and this and different demographics. And now there's younger people and there's girls and there's, you know, it's like, I just don't relate to this anymore. Um, and yeah, it went from like fun to, and then you know, money gets involved. Yeah. And he goes get involved. And it's where we're always, I think part of the reason why Barstool really succeeded. But one of the things I don't like about it is we were very competitive.

40:05It was like probably bordering on or if not fully into toxic territory, where it was like we're all on the same team. And it kind of starts out as I want to be the funniest. I want to be the first to that story. Yeah. I should to go viral more than yours. But it's all in the name of like we're all succeeding because of it, you know. Uh-huh. Then it starts, especially in the social media era where fans start to give you feedback and people are taking sides and they like this person and not that person. And so you can't help but take things personal and it gets a little bit messy. And then yeah, I have kids and like Dave does and like things where you just start to naturally grow apart. Yeah. Um, so I think that competitiveness and that edge is kind of what. You know, it's like a sports team. It's like we want to win, but I want to be the star on the team. Right. Um, so that, that, you know, was, it was a shift for sure. Uh, that, that kind of changed, changed the vibe of ultimately. I liked the competition. I think it was a big piece of it. But there's also this element of mean that wishes we were like entourage. Like we were like this family of ways. Yeah. We all hung out and like live together and like knew each other's families.

41:07Yeah. And we supported each other. Instead, it was like beef and we'll go at each other and that'll raise your cheeks. Yeah. But like couldn't we have done that as friends? But maybe we couldn't have. I don't know. Yeah. We had to take one bar stool had has had continues to have kind of thrives on, uh, controversies. Mm hmm. And you weather them in various ways. Are you the kind of person who loves to be in the news for like all the wrong reasons or does that make you anxious? No, no, no, no. Yeah. There was a time where it was like no such thing as bad publicity. Yeah. All news is good news, going viral is the name of the game. Right. And like especially bar stool was very combative. Like we would argue like when we started it was a lot of newspapers who were like, oh bloggers. And we were like, you guys are dinosaurs and you're going to be extinct. And you don't even see coming. Yeah. And they thought of us as like the hacks, you know, and then it happened across. And we were like told you so. Right. And they used to be like, this person would tweet a tweet something at me. And I would write a whole blog responding and we're, you know, it was like rappers beefing

42:08but it was like blog beef, you know. Yeah. And it was fun in the beginning. And now now I'm like, especially once you get big enough there's like people start to sue you and say certain things. So like when it was fun and games in the wild west, I kind of like to mix it up. We embarassed what we call it in the mud. Like I lived in the mud. I had mud gills. I could breathe in the mud. Yes. Now I'm like, I just want to tell some jokes. Make some money and get out and escaped. I know. If somebody, if there's like a real reason I need to defend myself, I'm all about it. It's just like I was making a joke. I offended this person. Now I'm going viral and everyone's calling me this out of the other. I'm like, total anxiety. Don't want to say him. I had such an appetite for it when I was young, younger in politics, like beefing with people and fighting with people and taking them on on Twitter and like, I have zero appetite for it. Now I remember when Francis went through with Francis went through. Yeah. Okay. And maybe you can, you can tell our audience, but like I had anxiety for that was bad.

43:08It was bad. It was bad. No, but it was, it was, it was timing that really sucked. Like he wrote, he wrote like what, you know, ultimately ended up being an insensitive blog, which we all did like a million times, you know. Yeah. But in this case, it was a story about like, it was a missing, what was presumed to be a missing girl. And then there was activity on her social media accounts. And he was kind of joking. Like, she's fine. She's like on Instagram. And then like an hour later news comes out that she had been murdered. And so it looked like this blog was written making fun of this tragedy. Yeah. And while it was like insensitive to begin with, it was just a bad break of like, have a story ended that made him look really bad. And Dave ultimately had to fire him because it was just like a bad look for the company. He ended up coming back. It was all good. But, you know, he would tell you that there was a couple of years where he, and he's still to this day, is affected by it where it's also PTSD. Yeah. And so that was a good example of like, I had written so many blogs that were insensitive or things where I was like, oh, I was wrong on that one. And it stayed in our little bubble.

44:08Right. Once we got big enough that everyone treated me more. Right. And so you really got to be careful. Or you got to like knock your butt. You got to just be like, I'm not good at that. And I used to be and now I'm like, but again, being genuine, I'm like, I never throughout my career. I never actually intended to offend. Right. I said a lot of inflammatory stuff. I have an edgy sense of humor. I have some strong stubborn New Yorker opinions. And those might cause controversy. But I never was like, time to just like stir the pot. And like all the while, it just happened that way. So when I say, I don't want that. What I would love is everyone to read it, get some information. Right. And follow me. And follow me. I know. It's hard though. Sometimes I look at my colleagues, my peers, my competitors. And they're really in the mud. I mean, they're in the mud. They're professionally living in the mud, which I could never do. But like, they're killing it. They're crushing it. Yeah. I often, I often joke like we say like if the last line of defense right now in the internet,

45:16if you're a female, is you can go like the only fans route for a guy. It's like, sometimes if I just could become like a Republican grifter, just be like, I'm going to turn into this two A hardcore right wing. Red pill bro. Same. It would just be like, see you, especially the women who go that route. Yes. Men's suck and women's suck and men are the best. Because they're so few of you. Yes. Easiest grift in the world. It's so easy. I could do it tomorrow and probably triple quadruple 10X everything. But I literally, I can't lay my head down. I can't do it. I can't sleep and I doing that. Me neither. I, you know, sometimes I think I'm a little too principled. Yeah. Yeah. What are we doing in show business with principles? What? I'm in the wrong business because I watch like, you know, the Megan Kelley's and people I used to work with like really cashing in. So wait. I should, I know they don't believe some of those people. Did they radicalize or are they, they know exactly what they're doing and grifting? No, they know exactly whether.

46:16So when you wash out of every cable news company, right? Like when you're Tucker, Megan, like you go where there, there are fans. You go where there are buyers for your product. And if you have to change products, that's, I guess the decision that they made. And so Tucker went to like the Nazis and Megan went to like, you know, the MAGA. Yeah. Weirdo. But they're pushing it. Yeah. And I guess there are times where I'm like, who can at the end of the day make your money, keep, you know, provide for your family. No, it really bothers me. But I, yeah, I don't, I don't think I could, I can't do it with like sports. Right. But I can't give a take on sports that I don't actually believe in. Yeah. Let alone some of this stuff. Real life stuff, you know. Yeah. No, it's, it's a daily bat. It's not, it's not a battle for me because I have, I couldn't be any different. Like I have to just say what I think and what's right and principled and all that. But it's a battle that like I read these people really bother me.

47:19Really bother me. And I was straight up. It's, it's a lot of it is like jealousy for their success. I'm just like, why is he's working so well? Why is everyone bad? You're bad. You're bad. Yeah. This shouldn't be paying off. You know what I could really go for right now. Literally anything that comes in a McDonald's carton, wrapper or bag or a McDonald's cup. Yes. Any of those items you do it. We've got your cravings covered. Now stop in for the flaky filet of fish. The crispy snack wrap or a large fries for just $2.99. Limited time only, price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. John, we can't put off renovating anymore. The kitchen's tiny, the basement's unfinished. Renovating is expensive. Not with Renify. What's Renify?

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50:23You see it instantly, it's cold water creek, the mark of exceptional workmanship, and signature touches inspired by a mountain-west heritage. Distinctive styles created from quality fabrics, silhouettes perfected with just the right drape, feel-good fits, offering ease of movement, and thoughtful details to elevate your look. For a wardrobe you can count on season after season, visit coldwatercreek.com. Shop the new spring collection at 20% off $75 or more with code iHeart20. I want to talk, if you don't mind, about something personal, your divorce. It's all good, go ahead. This was very public, and for a person who no offense was not like a movie star, but still a lot of people knew it must have been so strange to see your life in the news with so many people having opinions about it. How did you manage that? I don't think I did.

51:24I think I have no choice but to just keep going. I knew that again, at that point we were popular, but very regional in the New England area. Also just like in my bubble of the internet, and then the divorce happened, and there was an affair, and it was public, and all of a sudden on my page six, TMZ's outside the office, it's in the Daily Mail. It went international and went over the point. I was in People magazine, and I remember Dave going, at least you were in People magazine. Oh my God. Great, thanks. That was terrible, it was the worst moment of my life. A lot of regrets. Some people understand, other regrets that I don't feel even know the full picture, but it was hell, and it still is to this day. Is it? Well, it's a lot better, but it's still, I mean, every day. Part of me understands, I get upset sometimes when I see people who also went through affairs and divorced and scandal, who went unscathed.

52:26And I'm like, we really just pick and choose when to be outraged. Now, the difference is a lot of those times where people kind of go unscathed. The couple stays together, or the woman stands by her man, and that's why it's easier. In my case, that was not the case. So it was like, people were like, she's mad, she's hurt, like, so are we. And so I get that, but there are times where I'm like, some of your favorite, like, A-list celebrities who were like PG movies, went through the same thing, and we're not vilified, I was. No, it feels very unfair. Yeah, I mean, it is unfair, but ultimately you're talking about people who did things that are not great. And so I can't, you know, beggars can't be choosers, or you can't decide how the public reacts to your bad decisions. But yeah, there was, there's always part of me that's like, why? And like, if you want to just, I think what happened then, there was two things, like one, it was the Me Too error, I think that helped a lot. Oh, sure, yeah. And two, I think you did not think you did anything Me Too. No, it was very clear. Very clear. It was a, yeah, yeah. People were just coming for the men, but you didn't do a Me Too.

53:26Okay. And I think it was the early stages of what we're seeing now, which is like, this is happening with Timothy Shalamet right now. Yes. People who do you want to talk to you about that? They just don't like Timothy Shalamet, and they're using this. They found something. Yeah. The USA hockey men's women's thing. Yeah. Well, these people did not care about women's hockey. They just don't like the misogyny, mega red pill thing going on. And this is a new way to attack that. Yeah. I think there was a lot of people who didn't like me, didn't like bar stool. We told you they were frat bros who like misbehave, and like, we were right. I don't think you actually care about my marriage or my life. No, of course they don't. And, but at that point, it was, it was kind of new. Now, I'm like, I know exactly what's going on. You just, you just have a bias to war against this person, and you're using the story as confirmation bias. And that was one of the early stages of it. At the time, I didn't realize that. I was just like, wow, everyone actually, like, I really was that bad or this is that, you know what I mean? Yeah. And now you realize it's like, I was, you know, just, this is how the internet goes.

54:28It sucks. I really felt for you in that moment too, as to just, you know what, I do really regret. I mean, size, the obvious, like, I was at work on Monday. It happened on like a Friday. I was like, I got to go on the air. I'm not missing a beat. I got to face the music, and I did that out of like a, I thought I was being honorable. Like, I'm not going to run and hide from this, but also like just for my mental, like, health and safety and safety and my family. I should have been like, let me take a beat here and I'll probably, there's a couple days or something like that. Yeah, probably. Yeah. So, but that's the, that's the problem. You know, we became like famous. I don't have a, I don't even, I still, I don't have an agent, I have a PR person, I don't have a business manager. I'm just like a regular dude who happened to kind of stumble into this. Yeah. And it's like crisis mode, I don't know what to do. I went to a like a crisis PR firm, they said, why don't you put out a joint statement, but you can both post this on your Instagram, like, we are going through a tough time, but we'd like blah, blah, blah. I was like, do you see what she already, they're not, no, there's not a good, a kumbaya

55:33joint. No, right. So I was like, I was on my own and I just kind of, I hope I handled as good as I can where I was just like, I screwed up and I just need to make it up to everybody and, you know, through this. Yeah. And later some people recognize that I did so other people still hate me forever or judge me forever. Kind of is what it is. I'll never forget something Aaron Sorkin said, he said, bad press is like seasickness. You think you're dying and everyone else thinks it's funny. Wow. That's pretty profound. I think about that a lot because, you know, in my business, I, you, you step in it or you, you know, you piss people off or you have these moments and I've had, I've had them in my career. They're awful. I hate them. But that consoles me a little bit like no one's taking it as seriously as you are. And they'll get over it. They'll get over it. Well, and that's the main lesson for me was like, if I could survive that, I can survive

56:35anything. And also a lot of the, I used to get, I still get a lot, but I used to really get a lot of hate. That was like, you're not funny or this blogger is better than you and that stuff used to like cut me to the core. Sure. And then when there was a, a very real critique and criticism where I had to look at myself in the mirror and be like, I made some really like bad behavior decisions that I need to fix. Yeah. Like all the other, like that doesn't even register anymore. Right. Right. Right. So in a way, you know, I can't, I can't recommend it, but, um, I like, I, for a quote that I, I go back to a lot, I don't know the exact quote, but, uh, Hunter S. Thompson has like a piece called the edge and he's basically the summary is the only people who can talk about the edge of the people who have gone over it because I, I used to get a lot of people like, why would I ever listen to this guy again on relationship advice or how can he judge other people when this has happened? Yeah. And I understand that. But I'm sort of like, I'm the guy you, you should be, yeah, because I've gone through it. I can tell you, right. We'll do this.

57:35That's what's wrong. So, you know, a lot of people can judge from a distance, but once you go over, it's like, I know what the edge looks like. I know what the other side, you know, uh, before we get to a lightning round, I do, I did want to ask you about Timothy, Timothy, Chalamet, um, I have mixed feelings on this. You go. You tell me what I thought. Okay. I think, again, this is not, this is nothing new because it is just like if you don't like someone and now you have some ammo. A thing. Yeah. So in that regard, part of the course, okay. Other side of things, I think we have entered in two psychosis. Like I think there are people, I saw a video of someone breaking down his linguistics, like his inflection and the way he was saying it and people like screaming and yelling about it. And I'm like, again, these are people who aren't going to the opera, who don't care about the belt. Yeah. Yeah. You are just, you, here's one of the Timothy, Chalamet, they don't like that he's dating Kylie Jenner. They don't like that. He started out as this festbian, artsy, artful, nail written by a feminist type of character.

58:39Yeah. Yeah. And it turns out he's got a baddie. He likes the nicks. Yeah. He's a court side with rappers. He's a normal New York guy who has dumb internet videos and they don't like that. And this is an example where they can say like, we told you so he's the one. Yeah. And then, you know, I started to learn because again, I think he's right, nobody goes to or knows about the opera in ballet except for a small niche, which is ultimately his point. But then I'm learning how like, those are funded by donations and donors. Yes. It's artificially propped up by the elite's world to remain this very elite timeless art form. And then ultimately, he was like, I don't want to do that. I want to do art that is well done and tasteful, but consumed by the masses. Right. I think that is like a totally fair statement about his own career. Yeah. Yeah, I guess you could say it was like disparaging those industries, but I think he was just speaking, you know, inconvenient truth for those fans. Like, and again, if the victim here is like the ballet and opera industry, I think we'll

59:42all survive. Oh, I think, and I just love that while the internet is melting down, he's over in Japan in China. Like, he's on these talks. He's totally unbothered. Yeah. I think we focus on the wrong people sometimes, like, are they like the villains you're painting them out to be in a in a world right now where there are actual pedophiles and rapists and villains like, let's focus on them, right? And not the person who was kind of embodied a little piece of that for like a minute. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You're lighting around, okay. What's your favorite news outlet? Where do you get your news? Um, I, I'm trying, I'm trying to just give you an honest answer rather than just like throw out a high brow publication. Yeah. That's okay. No.

1:00:42It's mostly like the internet in a weird way. It's like, it's kind of just like I've been working on my algorithm for like so long to like it's giving you exactly what you need. And then from there, it's like whatever outlet is covering that story, I'll kind of jump around to the various newspapers and yeah, but I, I, I, I, um, it's more like personalities. To be honest, like you are like, I'll go to you, I'll go to, uh, some of the guys are like pod save America. I'll go to like that. So it's, I guess like whatever outlets, some of my favorite, uh, influencers and, and like analysts work for, but I don't, it's not like I, I definitely don't have a like I'm a Fox News guy or I'm gonna see it. I know. Right. If anything, that's the problem is I think you should kind of spread it around so you get a, yeah. A couple of you points. Yeah. What is the worst viral trend? Um, I have a real problem with Twitter these days. Yeah. This is going to be a little bit niche. Um, I used to love Twitter. Barstle put all their eggs in the Twitter basket. Yeah. We live tweet games and award shows and national TV moments. Yeah. And that's where we grew our following.

1:01:43And it was funny, man. You could find random people who were funnier than the best comedians. Oh, I remember it was the best. And then now then it became like just the political bloodbath arguing for him. But what's going on right now is like vague posting on Twitter where it's just like they're not mentioning who or what it's about. They'll just be like, Oh, that guy. I can't believe that guy like said that. Oh, and you're like contacts, please. Yes. And it's like, you're talking about Timothy Shalerman and the opera, but they will like blur out their name or not mention it. That's not okay. That and like those like right now there's that trend on Twitter where they break the photos up into four pictures. Have you seen that? Uh-huh. Yes. I just, it's just like mindless dumb. It's getting your clicks and these mean accounts are growing, but it used to be a place of like funny jokes and actual, I know, analysis, if you will, or like kind of interesting information. Yeah. It's just this wasteland. It's accessible. Oh, I just hate it. It's disgusting. I hate it too. Of it. In a good way, I'm not as addicted to Twitter anymore. So it's a good.

1:02:43Same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because it's, it's so gross. It used to be a place that could really promote your work and grow your following. And it was reaching people that wanted to be reached. And now it's just like, you can't, you can't throw a dart without hitting a bot or a trite or like it's just so fake. Everything is so paid. Like you can just see like all the political on this side got their talking points. They're all doing something. That's right. It's. It doesn't feel real anymore. No, it's, I mean, it's definitely not real. That's, that was another thing that helped me get through all my drama. It was like, I mean, there was obviously some real criticism. But once you start to realize that it's like, oh, this is one person who runs 50 accounts. That's right. That's right. Yeah. What would you tell young content creators not to do? Probably not start a podcast. I think right now people are like, let me get my microphone and my headphones and me and my friend will start a podcast. I think there's two things, one, the idea of like a long form, sit down audio is not it anymore. Like this.

1:03:43Like what we're doing right here. Yeah. But like we're grandfathered in like I think you can do it, you know, it's starting it because my second point is there is so much competition now. And it's not just competition. It's like your favorite athletes, your favorite singers, entertainers are now coming into this lane. Your favorite politician has a podcast. I used to joke, Whitney Cummings came on my show to promote the launch of her podcast many years ago. Uh-huh. And I jokingly, but half jokingly was like, get out of here. You're a show runner. You're famous and rich. You're good. Yeah. I need these sponsorship stars. I need these views and you're going to come eat them all right. And then like within that year, every comedian who we rose to prominence because the comedians came on our show. Yeah. Now it's like we're just going to go to the comedian show, you know? And I, you know, I can't, I can't lie if you're, if I say come listen to my podcast and someone says, well, I could listen to you or my two favorite NBA players who are retired and telling war stories from behind the scenes or your favorite singer was telling about

1:04:45what happened on tour or whatever. It's really become Hollywood. It's become show business. It used to be like, I could get famous. Now it's like, no, you got to be the Leonardo DiCaprio. It's smart lesson. Yeah. Totally. I would say if you're normal regular, the short form video, it's not that big of a time commitment. Yeah. Yeah. You need to prove, you know, okay, I've seen this person a few times. I'll keep following them because you're just going to ask them right now to listen to you for like two hours when you don't have an established presence, like, right. I know. I think that's good advice. What's the best movie about sports? Cinderella man. Oh. Yeah. I kind of have. Yes. Probably a pretty not popular answer. No, it isn't. I think it is just one of the best movies of all time, let alone best sports movie all time. It's like boxing and the great depression and like the, the, the plight of man trying to like provide and the bounce back story. It's all a true story, Russell Crowe, Paul Giamatti, it's directed by Ron Howard.

1:05:48I remember thinking that was going to win the Oscars and I think people say came out too early in the years. That's on the Oscars. I was forgotten. But yeah, the bulldog of Bergen, Jack James, James J. Brannick is like, to me, I think that movie is perfect. Oh, I have to go see that. What's the most overrated movie about sports? Maybe remember the Titans. I like that movie a lot. It is a good movie, but it's like everyone's favorite. Yeah. And to me, I have to imagine that was probably a little bit of like creative liberties were taken. Like I don't know if it really went down this way, like everyone getting along in racial harmony. Like one practice where they fought, like I don't know, I'm sure it was probably, oh, you know what? No, no, no, I have a real answer. The blind side. The blind side like winning. I think it won the Oscar, right? Or she won that, that, that was a terrible time for the Academy, whatever that won that movie. It was fine. But it was so schmultzy and like, and then like you find out the behind the scenes stories, like they didn't. Yeah, it's like, no, this was not it.

1:06:48Yep. Who is due for a biopic that you would like to see? Dave Portney. Okay. Dave's got his book coming out in June, and part of me thinks that that was done because I think he maybe ultimately wants a movie, like someone to buy the movie rights or something like that. Oh, wow. And I'm not just saying like, you know, obviously that's kind of a funny answer, but I really do believe we, what we did, like we'll never be done again, like just because of timing, like it can't be done again. There was this one period of time, like maybe the only guys on the planet that could have done it. And we did it. And it happened to coincide with, it needed to coincide with Boston sports and the rise of the internet. And then the me too of movement versus the social media, you know, all of it, like that alchemy coming together, I think would make for a really great movie, whether it's, you know, fictionalized or diving or whatever. Kind of like, I could see it in the style of air. Yeah.

1:07:49Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Okay. I want to talk about pizza for a second. Yeah. I live in Connecticut. Connecticut pizza's trash. Capital. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't like the Sally's and Pepe's or a pizza, Pepe's, I mean, it's fine. It's not trash. It's fine. But when I went there and I waited on a line and I was told all these things and then I eat it. I was like, can you feel scammed? Like, is this just marketing? And that's where, but I try not to be like contrarian where it's like, I do this a lot, like, I, here's my hottest take right now. I don't care for the movie centers. And that makes me, I'm racist, I'm dumb, I just think it was kind of a, like, vampire movie. It was dust till dawn. But now we're giving it like 20 Oscars, right? And but that, a lot of that was because I saw it late. I saw it at home. And by that point, the horse was out of the barn, greatest movie ever. And then I watched it. I was like, what? This is all about Connecticut pizza. I'm like, what is the big deal?

1:08:50And I, I, and I do like, like, I think New York pizza is better. It's not just like, oh, I think it's the best. Yeah, to me, it's, it's not really even particularly close. Right. Okay. What was your worst vacation? Any, any one I've gone on since I have kids? Well, here's what I say. When you take your kids, it's not a vacation. It's a trip. Okay. That's a great way to put it on a trip. It's not a vacation. I remember Louis CK is like favorite, my favorite joke of his is he said his vacation is when he puts his kid in the car and closes the door. His walk from the around to the driver's seat. That's his vacation, but he's no longer with his kids. I actually really don't travel much. It's something I want to do. Like for so long, I was like addicted to the internet and not missing a story. Yeah, I didn't miss an episode of my show for like a decade. And so I don't even have many good vacations to tell you. I go to like the Jersey show or you know, so I'm trying to change that.

1:09:52I'm in some of my later years. Get out there. Get out there, man. Okay. This is the last question. It's very important to me. We ask it at the end of every podcast. When is it iced coffee season? You don't drink coffee. But I would say this if I did. Okay. All your room. Okay. That's the correct answer. The correct answer is all your friends. I drink a, I put, I'm white trash and I put ice cubes in my red wine and I drink it year round. I'll drink it in the winter. I'll drink it in the summer 80, 80, 90 degree day at the beach. Pop a bottle of Cabernet, baby. I am a huge fan. Dude, have, have, you could be on the beach drinking red wine and eating your steak well done while you put ketchup on your hot dog. I don't care about any of it. I'm not eating it. You do what you want. Let me eat how I want to eat. Yeah, done. I love that. Kevin Clancy KFC. It's been such a pleasure. This was great. You know what? You were really one of the first like legitimate people to kind of co-sign us or tolerate

1:10:54us, you know? And it actually really helped a lot along the years of like, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. When it was just like, here's a legitimate journalist and, and, you know, media person who you respect, who is taking the time to do a podcast or come around and say, I thought you guys were great. Well, but so many people at that time were like, these are the devil. And like, did you ever get any like pushback of people being like, I can't believe you're, oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I appreciate that though, because it's easy to just not do those things and not take that hit. But you wanted to do it. You did it. It helped us. I was impressed by you guys. And I think I did rigs too. Cause he was all up on Syria and like, that's what I was covering. So like, it wasn't all nonsense. I mean, I thought you guys were really putting out great products. And I, I could see that this was going to be sort of the future. Well, and I just thought, I went to the office and like, you all took your jobs very seriously, you know, when people show up, they think we're going to be playing like beer pong and like, no, no, no, no, no, it was real. Yeah, stands and everyone's working. You know what's crazy?

1:11:55Oh, this just popped into my head. When I went to the office, I popped into like, meet Dave. And he was like, I was at the RNC or the DNC. And I, I said, hi, and you didn't say hi to me. And I was like, what? Like I have no memory of this. You know, these conventions are mad houses. And I have no memory of this. And I was like, oh my god. Did I snub a press? It's like, I never would have done that. But anyway, you have to tell him like, I didn't know that I did that. And I will never have that message. But is it interesting that like, yeah, I think again, for better or worse, because maybe we've gone a little too far the other direction. Like, especially politics in the country has really become like everyone's voice, Matt, like, how do I articulate this? It's like, it used to only be talked about by like the people in the political world. And now it's extended to the masses. I think that was kind of like, hey, we're like sports fans and we like comedy. But like, we have thoughts and opinions on this, for sure, we can articulate.

1:12:57And by the way, you know, maybe if people started to listen to like people like us more or recognize that regular people voices are gonna matter. Whether they should or not, I can't say. But they're going to matter and we were kind of like the beginning of that where it was like, we can talk on all this stuff and we're going to. Maybe we went a little too far because sometimes I'm like, I think that there's maybe like 1000 people in the whole country who should be able to vote. Everyone else, they're not educated enough and know what's going on. Like, just the electoral college and make it really tiny. I love that on that note, we'll say goodbye. Thanks, Kevin. And where can people find you? You just follow me on a KFC bar stool for the social media stuff, mostly on Instagram. And then my, my YouTube page is currently my old podcasts. So you can go watch those episodes, but I'll be retooling that soon and off. So it's a little bit dormant right now. But if you don't mind giving me a subscription, we'll get it going soon. So KFC bar stool on social media, KFC radio on YouTube. Perfect. Thanks, bud.

1:13:59Off the cup is a production of I Heart podcasts as part of the reason choice network. If you want more, check out the other reason choice podcasts, spola ticks with Jamel Hill and native land pod. For off the cup, I'm your host, S.E. Cup, editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me, S.E. Cup, Lauren Hanson and Lindsey Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts, follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday. This episode is brought to you by Bobcat. They started the compact equipment industry through grit, determination and a whole lot of think we can't do that. Watch us. They set standards, broke records, empowered people to build bigger and higher, to dig deeper, to make the impossible possible. We've all been there with doubters telling us what we can't do. Who cares what they think? We don't need their permission or forgiveness. We just get things done. So go ahead and doubt me, judge me, challenge me.

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