AR-15 Podcast 543 – Mitchell Defense take 2ish

0:00Keep listening for a discount. Help may be minutes away, but a life can change in seconds. Civilian Medical One teaches practical life-saving trauma care through realistic online training. Get prepared at civmedical.com that's civmedical.com. Use code FRN for a discount. You know I am your own first responder. Always be prepared, stay safe, stay armed. Always be aware, get training and practice. No room for mistakes. One wrong move is all it takes. Hold on to America's favorite black rifle. It could be the thing that ensures your survival. It's an AOP 15 show is ready to run. It's your weekly go some awesome gun talk. Welcome to the AR15 podcast. This show is for you that teaches about your first rifle

1:01or you've been building them for years. There's something we can all do to take our black rifles to the next level. My name is Nick Dooley. I am joined tonight by our director of propaganda Joe. It's a great show. It even everybody. And once again joining us for another time. We're not sure which time. But we have Nathan Mitchell from Mitchell Defense. So welcome back Nathan. It is good to see you and you guys have been busy. We have. Now let's get it back on here. This is the first time we did this. This is like my favorite podcast I've ever done. So it's going to be back. Yeah, we have been insanely busy. Yeah. I know that. Well, I'm glad one that you set your standards so low that were your favorite. But. I. This is this is probably the first podcast we ever did that when we did shows. People came up to us like, hey, we heard you.

2:01Like I heard about your company on the AR15 podcast. I don't know how many people listen to it but the people that do are engaged. Well, that. Yeah, we may not have a large audience, but we have a fanatic audience. Yeah. So we love we love our army of artists. It's great. Yeah. And. But. So before we dive too deep in because we're going to have a lot of stuff to talk about with all the things that you have been up to. Yes. So guys, we'll start with Joe. Joe, did you do anything fun with guns in the past week or so? Yeah, I blew my ammo budget on a plastic toy. If you haven't heard. So Nick, I know you're in. Ace pre-released. The AR or their Ace 15, which is their AR platformed for the ACE VR, which will ship in December. I know Nick and I both jumped on that.

3:03So that was that I drill this weekend. I don't really do anything else, but that's I'm looking forward to that. I want to see how that runs. I love the pistols and the stuff they have set up for it. So I can't believe that the wreck was going to be a deployment. Yeah, Nathan, have you played with that ACE VR system at all? I have at Ron played with one this last weekend. And like he was just like a kid in the candy store. I said it was the most amazing things ever done. I mean, it was away. I was there were sent to me videos of it. And like it's so funny to watch. But yeah, we see it shows all the time too. And the line is just insane. But I haven't got a chance to go play with it yet. Well, I think the coolest thing, one of the coolest things I think about the the Ace 15 and the rifle portion, you can put whatever buttstock you want on it. It takes mags. So it doesn't come on Ace. You can use your PBGs or whatever you've got. I can't guarantee it yet. I can't say for certain, but by looking at it, I think you can take the handry off and put whatever you want on there.

4:05So you can basically make this thing fit. You can down to the grips possibly to exactly what your competition gun is, what your go to guns are, and then play with them on the on the things. So we will, Nick and I will get back to everybody once they once we have them in hand. But it looks really cool. Now we need is like a 360 treadmill. Yeah, well, it's like I've been like break open the garage and run around in there where you're doing it where you can get in the movement and stuff like that. But even just doing static drills, it is like the pistol stuff is astonishing how well the physics work through. And it works really, really well for like how the angle works and seeing how the dot moves inside of a red dot on a handgun. So I'm excited to see how that translates to the rifle.

5:06I know in the screen caps that EOTechs on, but it'll be interesting to see if they make them grainy one because reasons. But I too am excited about that. Yeah, I'm going to go about the reach out to them to it. Can you change your trigger out? So I'm going to say probably not because that's the part that has to interact with the controller. So maybe you might be able to put some different strings and stuff in there. I do know that it is a module like a pistols. They are a modular system. So if you, because they only had so many of the grip modules out, you could take, you could buy one from them, like you buy the one from the 320. And then before they had the like the shadow, you could take that out and put it into somebody else's shadow made one. And they would work like you would buy them like a grip module and just swap those out. I don't think you're going to be able to swap the trigger.

6:08Um, let it be cool if you do it. Yeah, I mean, I just, that's one of the main things for shooting. Yeah, you go to the trigger. Um, have you guys seen the mantis systems like their CQB? Yep. Yeah, we both got the black beard with the laser and the mag battery. Well, then the newer version of that as well. They're like a virtual reality one too, like where you like, you can, you can do like CQB like with like with the goggles in your house. So like it's you, you format your whole house. And so you go in, it's like an augmented reality thing. Yeah. Well, the VR has that are, or you can use the, it's sort of like the preset stages and ranges. You can do it like in your house. It'll put targets on the walls and stuff. I, I didn't get that to work as well as I would have liked, but I hadn't seen the, the eight, the mantis one. I'll have to look at that. Yeah, they kind of just came out with that one though. Okay. Yeah, and I did, I only saw it at shot show last year.

7:08And I didn't know if they had released it or if they're just showing it. Yeah, I, I don't want their email chain and some of their social media. And it looks like they have a lot of new stuff since I used it last, because I kind of put it using it once I went to the VR. But because that is nice where you can use your actual gun and it resets and does all that. Yeah. So here you go. I will, I will quick, share the image so you can see what that. So, yeah, I think that's what it looks like. Yeah. So you can see it has the where the trigger goes in and that's what connects. Although it does have two pins. So it might. I can't. I can't. Yeah, maybe, maybe. Feeds off the hammer, but you wouldn't get a reset. I don't know. I'm like I said, I'm really interested to play with it. And this one uses the left controller. The pistols use the right. So that makes me really happy. That you'll be able to work transitions. Huh. Yeah, I just know that with the PVC pipe they have there,

8:09there is no cutie. And that to me is problematic. You can make. I, I believe me, I'm not afraid of fucking something up. But everyone knows that. Yeah, well, if you don't break it, I don't know. I'm not afraid of getting it. I'm not afraid of getting it. I'm not afraid of getting it. Yeah, well, if you don't break it, I don't know how it works. That is like the motto of my life. Yeah. But I also did not do anything fun. I just got done with two days of FEMA classes. And before that, I was a, a lighting. L.O.I. is for matches that are coming up. But nothing exciting that I actually got to do other than. Center for a computer. Be like, yeah, this is what we'll do for that match. But Nathan, you've been like doing all sorts of stuff in a mad science lab.

9:09So what did we have? We have been, we've kind of gone back to the basics trying to figure some stuff out. But that, we, when it comes to like 3D printing, we started, I mean, the dual-core hand guards are kind of been the big project that has been, I mean, I mean, I think we're, I honestly were 10 months overdue on it that we, we finally got it released. But then now that's turned into a whole another, like once we released that and people now know that that's actually a thing. That has been, we're, we're kind of up to our earballs and like projects right now. Of people in like special projects and. It's been pretty fun. Well, I know that the. Bum. So at shot show this year, I got to play with the. The new hand guards are look at them, the Duracle hand guards.

10:11And we talked about them when, when we got back, but for anybody who doesn't remember or didn't listen to me or maybe is new to this. So the dual cool hand guard is kind of amazing. And when I say kind of, I mean, it's amazing, but I'm going to show you here. As this clicks through, but. So you have. You might not be able to see it very well as this goes through from the image. And if you go to the, if you're on like the product page, it should have some zoomed in parts of it. Yeah, bottom. Now at the bottom, I'll scroll down. So what you essentially did was made a hand guard that has a thermal barrier. So. Yeah. As I go through your for anybody watching, you can see that you've made, you have groups coming up, but essentially sandwiched.

11:15And have it all made out of one piece of alloy. So you three D printed these hand guards to have. Essentially a space in between. So that the heat doesn't translate directly through and uses air as an insulator. In between that way. Yeah, so. Yeah, so there's, we created an air gap. So. The, like the inside metal on the outside metal aren't the same. And so we also maximize the amount of surface area that's on these hand guards. So I came, remember with the exact number is the amount of surface area. And then the, like, it's like, it's a thing like a computer. We were seeing like a heat sink on a computer. The same concept. They're just creating more spare more area for the heat to translate to, but then more surface area means that there's more air for. Or surface area for air to come into contact and to dissipate the heat. And so I mean, like you can see the heat sinks that are on in the inside.

12:15But there's also heat sinks build all throughout that that you can't see. And one thing I noticed that I know and in talking with other people. There's space between there for like the t-nuts for M lock to fit between. So you're not going to like crush that bottom piece into the top one. Yeah, and that was so originally we had a very thin space between there. And that was something that we had. I think we had the first prototypes at goals, not this last one, but the one before. And that was kind of like we, and that was the first time I really like put our hands on it. And that was like the first thing we did. I handed it to a Marine and it was just like, hey, put an in lock slot on here. And they did it and I bent the metal and I was like, cool. All right, we got to fix that. And so that's what we open up the space. But then we open up the space. We actually realize the more space you have, I mean, it's exponential every mill that you go out.

13:15Of how much or less heat comes out or with more air contact time. It goes off so much faster. Essentially it adds to the R factor. If you look at how insulation works and stuff like that. So you have a higher propensity for that. So your hands not going to get as hot. You're not going to need to have the wraps. The other thing that personally I love is the texture you guys added around that. So you don't have like historically it's just a super slick rail that you'd grab. And if it got wet or slimy or anything, your hand could slip on it. Unless you were a man and ran a cheese grater. But. Yeah, well, no, that was, I mean, the texture was something that we thought about. Like we're like, this would have been nice to have. And like, I know some companies out there that are doing like the laser etching for the grip. But it creates a very, very rough edge to it. So like if you're running it without gloves, like it's basically like a cheese grater at that point.

14:19It starts eating your hands. And we're like, all right, well, we need something that's kind of like a. Not a brace of non skid. And like what's awesome about it is it's built into the metal. So like that, that's not chipping away or going anywhere because it is metal. Yeah, like I know what I looked at him. I was super excited like I was texting Sean and Nick from wheel like shooting and sending pictures going like this is going to be awesome. Yeah, it was. I got very excited because well, I'm a giant nerd and was like, hey, this is going to be good. Yeah, well, even the ones that shot you, I mean, that was, those are old versions. We had a week and we re-did them about three different times since then. And that's like, I, this is one of those projects that was kind of like. You kind of let the engineers run with it. And then you're like, all right, at some point in time, we'd have to go to market with something. And they're like, oh, we could do this. I'm like, how much better is that going to make it?

15:20And then it's like, you can mess with the internal structures all you want. Like I just, as long as the outside doesn't change, we can go to market. And yeah, they, they kept just refining and refining and. Is wild. Now, I, I will say for anybody watching on the comments, so we had a couple of one of us says it cost more than his nice AR, which you're going to have that. Because this is a full 3D printed dual metal handguard. So that is not like that sentence cost me money to say. Like, just because, like, there's a lot of technology and a lot of things that go into that. So this is not a $40 handguard, but it has more than $40 performance. No, and that's so there's, there's two parts to it that I mean, everyone we show it to. I mean, the thermal performance, we have the, the testing data that we've gotten from it. I mean, it's, I think it's like 37% cooler.

16:21So, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot. So when we were doing the testing part of it for the thermal performance, the key things are that, at 108 degrees, your hand starts to say, hey, this is too hot to touch. At 120 degrees, you start to have skin damage. And then at 150, you can't hold on to it with a glove on. Depending on the glove, it's like 150 to 160. But whenever we were doing our testing, the dual cool never got over 100. Well, I got up to 153 for like two minutes. But it never was over that threshold where you couldn't hold on to it with a glove. And the, the delay of getting over 108 was substantial. So, that's where the performance really mattered. And then like the regular handguard, I think got up to like 203 at one point. Well, I know that like I threw up on screen here for anybody watching live. Because you went through and like you guys have a whole white paper about this, publish on your website.

17:27You know, like controlled indoor thermal testing with the same 16 inch rifle, 17, 70 degrees inside. And after 30 rounds, it was 80 degrees and 86.1. And then 60, you know, 116 degrees at 90. It was 151 versus 122 with 185 versus 140. So, I've had strings of fire where I've, you know, got into some of those where you're running a long time. And yeah, it's your hand grip or your handguard gets hot. And if you don't have calluses or hands built up for it, you really know. Or you might be in a game with your fingers. You're like just like touching. So, there's one thing that we talked about with just like handling this. Just with your hand being hot. There's one other like real big thing. I know 4MR ranch has been talking about it a little bit, a private group.

18:29But lasers have a huge, like if you're running IR lasers, the thermal disruption from heat coming up from the handguard. As things get hotter, like if you really heat it up, they'll notice more shift. Because as the laser or your IR unit gets hot, just all of the parts will move as well. So, that's like a side from just like everybody going like, hey, this feels better on my hand. It'll add longevity to the electronics that you put on because like those lasers and stuff sticking out in front will have more time to not be as that cools down as it goes through the handguard. Which is just what I was like, oh, hey, we didn't mean to fix that problem. But here we did. Even speaking about lasers and fixing problems, we didn't know we fixed. That was so one of the things is one of the people we sent it off to. And they were doing some testing and like we said, we had a call with them and we're like, yeah, I had the thermal performance is great.

19:30Like all this stuff. And they were like, well, like we don't like the thermal performance is great. Like that was it was a cool feature that it has. But they're like the thing that we were the most impressed with was the rigidity. So like you have like your I or lasers and your lasers, whenever you get up on a barricade, it starts to shift. So like the deflection of the actual handguard. And we didn't mean we, whenever we designed it, we built it with rigidity in mind. And so like we, we use like an AI software that built out the entire rigidity structures throughout it. And so the handguards themselves are actually more rigid than any other hangar on the market. And that's on that white paper too, where it has like the comparison data of how much less deflection, which doing a deflection test was the craziest thing because I realized how little anyone's ever tested deflection and published it. Yeah. Well, nobody wants it's. And so when people don't know what metric to use to test that, so you're probably had to like figure out a way to look at it.

20:35And we had to figure out a way to do it that we had comparison data. I mean, I wasn't going to go by 30 different ARs and test all them the exact same way. So it was, it was, and yes, you can't get it in O.D. grain, by the way. So on the color is the serico, and we're kind of jumping here, but we switched over all the rifles actually switched over to this is using the near IR coding from serico, so it doesn't show up and on night vision. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, so we use the thing. I think it's called leaf green. That's the near IR version of O.D. Oh, that's cool. So, but you're talking about the deflection testing, like you guys had to develop and figure out a way to do that type of testing. Yeah, and I mean, it actually turned out to be very, very basic. I mean, it's basically putting weight on the bottom of it and seeing how much it moves. It's not complicated at all.

21:38But it's the whole idea is like you have a bipod on the end, like how much pressure are you putting on a bipod whenever you're like loading it. And so, but like we couldn't really figure out, I mean, I think the max we figured up was about 25 pounds of pressure that you're putting on the end. And so we did it from a range. I think we started it like five pounds and then went all the way up to 25 and just seeing how much it moved based on each of the different weights. And then I mean, this is simple as putting a laser on there and putting a laser on a wall, seeing how much it moved. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. And those are things that people want to know because it does matter. If you're using a bipod properly, you should be loading it. So I mean, it's putting weight on it so that it'll push back against you instead of just, okay, I'm going to set it here and be dainty. But, you know, that's again comes back to people actually running their gear versus the ones who set it on a shelf.

22:41Yeah. But so in reading through that, you said like, you know, there's a 25% versus, you know, 25% better. Look at this. And then, you know, that's all in your white paper, which so I will admit I am a super nerd. So I like reading white papers, but that's probably just me. Because like, I will read them for fun. And, yeah, you're showing that running through this, the different, you're different than what you have for your applied load. Even starting at five pounds really starts to show at like 12% then up to the 25%. So it's like that data graphics extrapolates all the way out that this is only going to be better. But that's also why, again, always said this isn't a, this isn't cheap performance. This is you're going to have to pay for it.

23:44But if you develop something new, sometimes the best stuff does cost the most. Yeah. Well, I didn't add it, but it is just in insanely expensive. And like the, you know, we, we actually change materials like two or three times to try and get the cost down. And that, I mean, the original material we were using, it just got to the point where we're like, look, we can't, this isn't feasible. And then we ended up doing some more research in a different additive materials. And like so, Cp1 is what we came up with. And sin, it actually turned out to be the best material. And that was just because like the material itself is specifically designed to shed heat. So like it, its job is not to hold heat. It's like a, it's like an aluminum titanium and magnesium mixture. That's awesome. Yeah. No, I mean, you start getting very, very nerdy when you start getting into like the 3D printing world. And like there was, we had some conversations.

24:47I was like, cool. Like I don't know what any of this means. Like, I mean, you start talking about laser speeds and it's. Yeah. When we're centering this, the powder definition that we have for the additive manufacturing is. Yes. Yeah. You, they, they say things. I'm just like, does it work? And they're like, yes. I'm like, cool. And like, I mean, even like your, your layer heights and trying to, and that was like another thing with like the Cp1 is that we were able to print twice as fast as what we could with the A20 X. We originally had. And that was like one of the things that just got the cost down. So like, instead of it taking like I think we were at like six or seven days for one build. Like in just that thing, just running. We got it down to about like, I think three days for a build. That's awesome though. Like running through at that speed. Getting the full build down is like the more we can produce the faster you make them the more you can sell.

25:53And then the fact you can make them the more the price kind of goes down. Oh, yeah. I mean, you're good. I mean, I think the machine's like a million dollars. So you, that has to account for something in there. Machine time costs money. Yes. We started getting. I mean, we started talking a lot of like facilities and stuff like trying to figure out the best ways of doing it materials and stuff. And we talked to one though that they were doing car engines. Like 3D printing car engines. I was like, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen. So in a off on a tangent here about the very first time I ever saw 3D printer. It was like a $7 million unit. And it was in 2001. And it was a resin printer that used it used light to flash to make the layers. It was like a liquid base. And it would flash light down and that would harden. And then you would lower it down and make this like, okay, yep, this is your model.

26:58And it was almost like a rice paper like hard. It wasn't durable. It was kind of crap and they call it rapid prototyping at the time. Yeah. But one of my one of my professors had made a working V8 that was like cut in half so he could move it and see the pistons move. That was the first time I saw anything 3D printed. I was like, that's really cool. And now you can have one of those in your basement. Now not one that does metal like what you're talking, but. Yeah. I yeah. And the bigger the machines get the more precise they can get to. I mean, but this really is kind of the future of manufacturing, I think. I think once they figure out how to do it in a cost effective manner, I think most manufacturing will go to it. That's the thing. It's just like so expensive to do it that it's kind of keeps a lot of people out. I mean, I'll see how much these handguards cost.

28:05Yeah. Well, like you're seeing a lot of the suppressor world moved to it because you can do so much more with the design aspect than you can't like even a traditional seven axis machine. So you're not just doing a tube extrusion and cutting some holes in it or removing material. You're you have the ability to kind of put things where you want. And that's where you get stuff like this flow. So now you have your guys are making your rifles come out that have the dual cool handguards that are set up with this. And you have my personal favorite the a five length. Yeah, because I'm an a five fan boy. The butt persistence. Yeah, that was that was also a very fun project to switch over to. Yeah, we also have the arc or rail that we have an archa version of the dual cool. And I also love the arc of stuff talking about 3D printing. I told you before the show.

29:08But I just got in a poor bag plate from Nick from bus built systems are we like shooting. It's an arch a rail 3D printed bag plate for use it for glassing or anything like that or for PRS matches, but ultra lightweight. And I've been slowly converting stuff over to arc a rail just so that I don't have to bolt on an M lock section arc a rail underneath my rifles. That I can set up on a tripod and run that because apparently my wife wants to hunt from like a standard hunting blind and not wander around the countryside for three miles like I do. Is it really hunting if you're sitting there waiting for the deer you have to find them. That's what I said, but she's like you don't have to walk five miles for everything and carry it all on your back. That's the fun part. Yeah, it's like the people that like will like will I I won't kill a deer if I don't have to hike in and then.

30:09Like if there's people who are like hunt on their back porch and it's like, I couldn't do that. I can pull that off. Well, I mean, that's not to say that I haven't said like many opening warning. How do you want the hunt to go? Man, I would love it if there was like a booning rocket deer right outside this camper door. Because then I could shoot it and go back to sleep. I feel like I woke up every morning on that one. You feel that we go. Yeah, I'd be great. Yeah, we're done like all right. Let's get it. Well, the megramma coffee. Yeah, but yeah, no, we switched everything over to the A5 link. Which yeah, that was a fun project in and of itself. But we had hell getting the buffer tube manufacturers. We took the same buffer tubes that we had with the feed lip on there.

31:12And we designed well, we designed our own. And now apparently everyone makes one of those. You see them a lot on like midway and optics planet. But I we had a lot of problems trying them. We finally found some impact. We talked to a guy at Chacho and we couldn't exit. We were making about a solid billet. And that was just not cost effective at all. And so we found some impact extrusions. And we were doing it. And there's a guy at Chacho. It was like, hey, I was like, how many do you need? We need a thousand of them. And he was like, all right, cool. I have that in inventory like impact extrusions. We're like, this is awesome. We put the PO in. And it's like four months later, we got him. And he was just like, oh, like everyone put an order in. And don't tell me you have them in stock. There's this thing called inventory figured out live tracker. Yeah, don't tell me you have a, I need a thousand. You tell me you have a thousand. And then you don't have a thousand.

32:13Yeah. So looking at it, like you said, you have the dual cool. And you have the the R-Carail version. And running B5 systems on everything still. Yeah. Which my only hang up at that is you know, you really should look at doing the VZ grips. And VZ grips are great because they're made of a solid block of G10. And G10 is great because it's durable. And doesn't get slippery when covered with mud, blood or sweat. The 17-degree gripping on wide variety of textures with extreme customizability from safety nuts, bottom size, or bottom profiles and more. As well as 1911 grips, per-rata grips, everything else. And all the customizability you can have. More than 25 textures and 27 colors are available. There's one coupon code that is good for 15% off all hand-gunned rifle grips. And that code is AR-15, pod-15. Anyways, back to our regular scheduled conversation. But no. So I love B5 furniture.

33:13I got real used to shooting a Sopmod on an M4. And coming back to that, I'm like, yeah, I just prefer the Sopmod style. Yeah, that little bit of cheek rest does a lot. Yeah, I love the B5. I love the gripping on the B5 and the grip that they put into it. And I just, also, it's just a really good company. And we've talked to me being in the 3D printing world, like they're always like, we can 3D print you your own grips. And engineers wanted to design one. I'm just like, guys, I just really enjoy working with B5. They just are super nice people. I mean, we've done a couple of rifles for giveaways, for organizations. And every time we do it, they donate the grips to us. And we're like, oh, thanks, guys. And they're one of the very few companies that does that.

34:14We don't. So that's awesome. Now, you also have one other thing here that I know we talked a little bit about earlier today, that I think is really cool and kind of super big news. So I'm, I hope you're ready to talk about that yet, but your collaboration. Oh, yes. So, all right. It's hard to like not tell the full story of the dual cool before like kind of going into that thing. So the original like, like idea for how this all kind of came up was, we talked to Socom at Shot Show, like two or three years ago. And they were asking for an ARKAR rail. And so we were like, all right, cool. Yeah, we could do an ARKAR rail. And we could not buying like thousands of feet of extrusion for a maybe they'll pick it up kind of thing.

35:17And so that's in there are three deep printers are like, we're talking to them. And they're like, well, we three deep are we do metal 3D printing. We're like, like a hang on. They're like, yeah. And then we got went into an engineering like rabbit hole. Because then the next thing that we thought of is like, oh, we can put an air gap in there. Like, it'll prevent from heating up. I mean, the whole idea came from Yeti. That's basically how Yeti cooler works or Yeti bug. Yeah, it's mean they vacuum seal it. So it's a little bit different, but it still still wall like it just makes sense. Yeah. I mean, it keeps like it prints the sweating and the heat doesn't transfer out to it. And so that was kind of it. And then the next thing everyone says whenever you say something like that is, we can put a suppressor in it. Like that eliminates the problem with like 300 blackouts, a short 300 blackouts that have like the, like you're just like choked up on the gun because it has no handguard space with this eight inch suppressor on it.

36:17And so we were like, all right, yeah, no, we could absolutely do that. Like I mean, it's the same concept is like the gap is preventing the heat from the gas block. And so that was then we started testing that and realized that it like really works by putting it like you talk a suppressor in there. That suppressor gets hot, but your handguard's not going to heat up near as fast. And then then we started talking to Hawks works. And this is this project to this collaboration rifle is we're probably right at little over a year. I will actually find more than that because this we were supposed to like, like have it at shot show last year. But then it just kind of kept getting pushed back and pushed back, but we finally got it. So this rifle is I have never been a 300 blackout fan. This thing has made us all fall in love with 300 blackout. And the reason is this gun is built from the ground up to run subsonic suppressed ammo.

37:24And some of the cool features and that was like we the talking is a presser. The first thing we thought of is like, all right, cool. How do you adjust it 300 blackout you have to be able to adjust the gas between subs and supers or even different subs you have to adjust. And we're like, all right, cool. Well, we can build a window into this thing like rifle speed. We saw the rifle speed adjustable is where it's toolless. And we're like, that is genius. We'll just build a window and where you can adjust it without having to take anything out of it. And then the rifle speed is the best adjustable handguard period dot or not a handguard gas block. You might want to know. And what I love about it is like we used to I mean, we still use the Perl of arms for all of our AR tens and stuff like stuff that you can kind of like get access to. Like that's still going to be tucked under the handguard. But what I love about these things is they like even when they're dirty, they still work. Yeah. And that was the thing that I always hated about other ones is like once they start getting that carbon build up like that, the rod won't move.

38:30But the way that rifle speed designed it, it just is easy clicks. Yeah, it's I have I have a couple of them on different guns. Like I have a six five creed more that in order to figure out how to get it to gas properly. I just was like, OK, we know what finally end up going down the rifle speed rabbit hole and it works. Hey, all right, we have it. Everything works. I'm no way to stop fucking with it now. Yeah, what's the most people say they want you get it once you get it tuned in like you know, I don't know if the message that again, but. Yeah, but so the thing I think is kind of the most neat is it but now the rail bells out around the can for that kind of SD. Five. Yeah, so that was so that we were the first thing we thought I was like, hey, we need to talk with figure out how to tuck a suppressor into this. And whatever is soon as we said that, how it's works was like, yeah, we have something for you.

39:35And we started talking to their engineer, their research development team and they had a 300 blackout which we scroll down a little bit. It has that shows the actual suppressor and you'll see why it needs to be tucked into something because it looks. And this is their 300 blackout suppressor that they built specifically for 300 blackouts. I mean, everyone knows how it works. They're 30 how cans don't work great on 300 blackout subsonics because they don't have enough back pressure. Which works great for every single round except for subsonic 300 blackout. So this one is and this is a part of their mission line. And that's why it's kind of keeps getting pushed back because they keep making them for the government and for all their contracts and it's hard to get them on the civilian side. But we finally stole away enough of them. But yeah, so that the rear portion is what talks into this suppressor back there into direct thread right to the barrel and seven and a half inch barrel and then you have an eight inch suppressor coming off the end of it.

40:45So I mean, this is a then you know, run and you know, radian safety and the guys like triggers. It's like this is this is all yet. Yeah, this is all of the parts that you really kind of want and having all this run through is pretty awesome in my eyes. Yeah, and we there's a lightweight buffer spring that's built into it. So it's different buffer spring. So and I did one thing that we wanted and we did a lot of I mean, we we we shot a lot of 300 blackout ammo like a lot and we didn't even have a and it was like one of those we were just kept going to the store and these companies are like we've never sold as much 300 blackout and we're like yeah we we probably should just call Hornity and like like hey man, we're doing a project. Please send us ammo. How much is this palette cost?

41:45Yeah, well, I mean we legitimately so we were down in Texas doing some R&D and we went to a store and I was like, hey, how much 300 blackout subsonic ammo do you guys have here? And they're like, oh, well, here's the shelf. I'm like cool. Where's the the extra inventory like is this all you guys have and they're looking at it's real weird. I'm like, all right, I got to tell you who we are. But for this to make a whole lot of sense, we're not trying to like go start an army somewhere. We're just you had a bunch of testing. Yeah, we shot a lot. So that our requirement, my requirement for this was and this is what I've always hated about 300 blackout is that 300 blackout is just so finicky that it like it's picky on ammo. It's they like won't run in certain situations and I was like, look, this thing has to run in order for us to even like to do this project. And so we finally got the barrels honed in where it will feed and eat anything. I mean, we like those those cornered ones that have like the rubber tips on them.

42:47Yeah, that I won't feed into anything. We that was like the last one. We were like, all right, that we're going to get this thing to feed. We finally got it to do it. So Joe knows a little bit about that would get that's the that's the one round I can't get to feed through mine. Anything else like the 209 with the flat tail. I can feed that. I can feed it any of the supersonic's but that one is like the 220 or 208. Yeah, the 220's that have like the fill not I cannot get them to feed through my Yankee Hale offer. Oh, surprise interrelease press. It no, I accepted that. Okay, if I want to run subs, I'll just run the other one and I'm not about to keep messing with it. And the other thing I found out is it doesn't like to run subs with the FRT, but who gets read that? Actually, I don't even I had we have really had a whole lot of like the FRT stuff. We've we have stayed as far away from as possible.

43:54Like we've had customers who've tested all that stuff. Yeah, we can't have an idea of what we'll run and what won't run. Really haven't tried it with this though. Well, and I made a point again with it like I can reload 110's I can buy 110's relatively cheap. I don't need to be made dumping FRT subsonic because that just gets stupid expensive. Oh, so yeah, and I know you mean I've been I've been a kind of a fan of the 300 blackout sense it kind of started to blow up in 2012. And we were early adopters. Yeah, yeah, and I like it. I think it's a fun around. It's just I wish we could find a way to get the price down on it, but it is it is very finicky. I spent nine months back and forth to the range and it gets frustrating, especially doing this on the private side. Not like you guys have where I got to drive to the range if I only get three rounds in and it's like throwing a fit.

44:56It's like I guess I'm going home. Yeah, just step out back and come back in the house. Think with it and then go back out. But yeah, I know what you're talking about trying to get certain things to feed and just the amount of little things you're trying to tweak to without. Because he, hey, I got it to work for this. Now the other end doesn't work. Like, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, there was there was definitely. I mean, a lot of times there's a lot of give and take. So it's like you, okay, you can have to do this, but you can't have to do this. You can't have them do it both of the exact same time. You definitely get that with suppressors a lot. So I mean, and this gun is definitely designed for that suppressor specifically. Yeah, it's well, I mean, the handguard kind of looks like it was made in fourth that one alone. So, yeah, we call this space gun. That's that's like our internal name for it. Which that so we, that was what we, we started to shine on so that showed it to silence or shop and they were like absolutely.

46:02Now, that was one of the things they were like they kind of impressed them the most is that it's fed everything that they threw at it. They, and we spent a whole day on the range with them and they're like, this thing just works. Yeah. Well, I know that. So this is one where I'm going to go back in time a little bit here. I'm going to talk about I remember the very first time that we had you on the show. You and I nerded out about, you know, like building rifles and stuff like that. And I talked to one of our real good friends who ended up has now bought a couple of your rifles. I know that he's got a PCC and another rifle and I think he's got two rifles. Yeah, he's bought a handful. But he talked to me and I said, well, these, these guns are going to work. And you put so much time and attention into the parts that you use when you build these. It's not, you're not buying from the standard white label manufacturers that, you know, a lot of other manufacturers are like I have a, you know, I have a rifle sitting on my bench right now that I was sent and said, hey, go through this.

47:16Tell us what you think. And before I take it to the range, it's, I'm going to go through it and look at all of the internals because of some complaints that had gotten. But when I go through that, it's, hey, you actually get down to like what type of coding you're putting on your gas rings. Oh, yeah. That is, that is not something that people normally do because half the time manufacturers forget the gas rings exist. And it's like, oh, I just buy a bolt carrier group and chuck it in and they don't think about what the materials are for them. All right. It always like irritates me because one they don't know that they exist. But they also, they just show up in their shop with the Marty on. Like people who really care about them are the ones who are like actually doing the manufacturing process. And like, it's like, no, we, we get all of me at everything. We, we code our own product, our code our own bolts code, code our own carriers. Um, code our own gas rings.

48:18Like everything we have, we can, we control the supply chain completely. Like we don't let anyone else do it for us. Yeah. And I know the, the last time you're on here talking about, I think you guys had just released the sand cutter. And, uh, like that was, like, that's pretty amazing too because you start looking at like, hey, this actually works. And, you know, you found the, like, you're taking the time to make an amazing rifle as it is. And then you're going through building the custom options and building it things out on it. And getting all the things right because you're taking the time to make sure that you're making the best thing for the customer. I think that's one of the best things about like, your guys is company and what you're making. If you're doing that stuff and doing it right, but making it to last and quite literally making an heirloom quality gun that's like, hey, this isn't just cheap trash parts, but also that's why guns are at the price point they are.

49:24Yeah. And that's in, and we're constantly R&Ding too. That was one thing that we have a couple of customers that own like five or six rifles at this point that they, like, we had one of them reach out and was like, hey, this isn't the same gun that like, I, I, I, it could. There's some differences on here. It's like, it seems like you guys missed some things. Like, I was wondering, like, we can get it fixed. Well, we actually did a bunch of R&D like, we're constantly changing things on the rifles that we find. And like, so the one thing that he noticed was, we switched over to a different internal coding for the upper receivers. And so instead of doing the E series, Sarah code to the inside, we're doing a, there's another coding that we're using. It's like a hammer. It's called like nickel something. Yeah, but it's slick. It's super slick. So it's like, it's like a DLC coding that kind of goes on the inside of it. But like, carbon doesn't stick to it has a lower friction coefficient.

50:24But the reason we switched over to it, because we found out that with E series on the inside of the rifles, there is a very, very, very specific situation in which it slows the carriers down. Whatever the, it's, I know this sounds crazy, but it's like, whenever it's hot outside, it starts raining and the rain is a cooler rain, you start to get the steam that comes up from it and makes the air way, like, extremely thick. And it makes does something to the coding where it sweats or something and makes it sticky inside of it. It sounds, so we're all put my nerd hat on, but it sounds like it's experiencing a little bit of galvanic corrosion because you have water, water vapor moving over two different types of material that's, or two different types of metal that's moving. Yes, that sounds, that sounds yeah, like something. But yeah, no, so it slows down and then like, and then when the air clears, it starts to work again, but it was like one of those things. Once we found that out, we, you can't, we can't unknow that now.

51:32And I'm not going to put out guns that I know are that that very, very specific situation could possibly happen. And if we knew about it, I would feel bad. But it in, yeah, we, and it, it was a very hard one to figure out because we feel it was hard to recreate that exact scenario to figure out that that was what was happening. Though, but like figuring stuff like that out and a way to fix it is really a testimony to what you guys are doing. There's a lot of companies who are like, no, whatever, it's fine. Like what are the odds they're actually going to get into it. But essentially, you know, from talking to you and everything about it and all the products I've seen, you guys don't let a product come out of your shop that you wouldn't bet your life on. No, and that's kind of like one of our things. Have we, now there's just kind of going to make, have we done like, have we had some warranty stuff come back? Yes, absolutely. Every company has.

52:33It's always been some like weird random thing that's like, how do we miss that? Like I need right now, I have, I know we have one warranty rifle here that like the threads like that. I also have no idea what's wrong with it, but like you can't screw a muzzle device on to it. That's not the one that came with it. It is like the threads are way too thick on the back. It's just weird. It's just like there's one of the weird things where it's like, I don't, yeah. I don't even know how we would have tested for that. But yeah, like that's like some things do kind of go through something that cracks, but as far as like the operating system, yeah, we everything gets test fired. That was one of the things with this 300 block outgun that they were like, oh, well, like we'll ship the suppressors to silence their shop because that 300 block outgun as a silencer shop exclusive. That's where you can buy that at. Whatever they, it should release by the end of the this month. Hopefully. But they're like, oh, we'll just ship the suppressors and then they can put them on there. Like, no, we, we have to put rounds to these guns before they leave. Like there is nothing leaves here without being test fired.

53:40Sorry, as I log into my silencer shop. Yeah. The rifles with the dual cool are in silencer shop now. I will they're not live yet. But they haven't, they don't have the 300 block out space gone up yet. I've just seen if I could pre-order it as a dealer. That's actually a good question. I don't know if you can or not. No, you can't. Yeah, I don't think they're going to release anything until they actually have the inventory and then we can do all our marketing stuff. No, but no, that is that is great. It's you guys are making like a truly like I've said before that it's like a boutique rifle where it's like this is a boutique high end rifle. This isn't if you want to mass produced like hey, I need an AR to hand somebody whatever because I need a backup one. That's the reason why a couple other companies exist like you know, I'll say PSA is one of those like what is it?

54:41Like yep, that's the right way to give to a neighbor when they need it. If you want something that's like hey, this is my one rifle and I want to be able to do everything with it. That's where you look at like the Mitchell defense and get into that where it's it's a different level of firearm. Because it's it's the heirloom quality. It has all of the thought and things that have gone into it where you're actually going through things and finding the small parts that matter the most and fixing them instead of like, oh well, it'll be cheaper just to throw another $60 bulk carrier in it until we find one that works. Yeah, no, we and I think there's been a couple of situations where we've we've we've talked about. I mean, so you guys can we attack back on so they they reached out about the sand cutter. They were really they were excited and liked it and they're like they're they have their way of doing things and we're like, look, this is we can't do this for cheap.

55:44Like that is. I got a cent if I got a sand cutter in a backpack. I probably lost my mind. They were they were they was. We were very close to figuring it out, but it just we couldn't get the numbers to work. But yeah, I mean, there was like a part two where we're going to like we're going to nitride them instead of doing the DLC and I was just like, man, I it's just not. I don't feel clean. I don't feel clean. Yeah, it feels it just feels wrong. Like I'm a happy with one of the slings. Why we have been trying to get the slings in that is that has been a. Slings are interesting. It's slings are like in the way slings are viewed by people because we actually just launched our Amazon account to for the slings and also our cable management clips. By the way, your guys is sling is still my favorite.

56:44I absolutely love it. It's a dual point. It does have the bungee in it and it's still adjustable. But once you get it set, it has enough stretch that I can move it and move it around me. And like it's. I love that sling. I mean, especially for like competition shooting and stuff. I mean, you're running and you're tired. So you're driving out and creates that tension for you and just keep creating that stability for you while you're shooting. Yeah, well, and. Slings are one of those things where I tell people it's like, hey, actually, we just had a listener reach out to me this week. And guy is like, hey, I just found the podcast and he was going through asking about his build because he just getting into ARs. And went and did like a ransom drills with a buddy to like simulate a match and went, maybe I'm not as good as I thought I was because it's the first timing shot with a timer and went, oh.

57:44Yeah, I need to take a class. It's. When you look through every rifle, you would have. An optic first because you need to be able to see down it. Like I know, yes, iron sights exist, but let's get real. It's 2026. You should have an optic of some sort. Then a sling second. And lastly, I'll say a light joke. We'll go back and forth and be on this. I think rifles need lights. That's a me thing. But light or optic light sling is if you want a general purpose rifle, no matter what those three things are needed because a sling is just the holster for your rifle. But if you're in a reliable custom kind of holster, click or tag goes your premium one stop shop using USA source materials. Clicker tactical provide you a whole string of variety of styles and colors along with light and laser options with your law enforcement competitive shooter and everyday got enthusiasts. Just a clear tactical fight every fire and mortar has access to top tier of personalized holsters as well as custom products you can't find anywhere else use code AR 15 podcast for 10% off at clicker tactical.com.

58:53So dirt racer in the chat says better than flat line. So I have a flat line fiber and I have the right or sling. The the one that I use as like my you know, end of the world, gun or whatever you want to say has the right or sling on it. That's the one I go to. I really think that probably is the best thing on the market after that I go to the flat liner and the other padded ones and then like I have some cat monkey ones like on my stride bog and stuff where it's just a little cheapy. They have a great they have great marketing got a cat monkey ones. We are Ron whatever we were doing like the Amazon stuff and like we're trying to figure out the marketing report Ron we like just kept sending me stuff from them. He's just like we can do this we could do this. Okay, bad. But no, no, it's that's what a los were and clever. Yes, rifle holster. That's that's a thing.

59:58I want to see it. But just stay. Yeah, like what's the challenge leave that just comes inside. Yeah, but like that's what I really do mean that we're having the method to do the transitions or whatever because the sling really is the holster for a rifle. And I've run all manner of slings. Like the world's worst thing which is the parade sling on an M16 a tour M4 that is just like the standard issue one inch strap that doesn't work anywhere. A pile that they issued everybody in the military. And there it's like then you start thinking you're getting somewhere when you get a mag pull sling and you're like oh man this one has a slighty thing. And it's smooth like I don't have like it's not it's not like pulling. Yeah, you know, so when you move up to that one where it has the ability to run and slide and then the bungee in it as well that doesn't seem to wear out.

1:01:10I have really, really liked that sling a lot. Yeah, we we we saw a lot of them to like law enforcement like SWAT teams because that's what they just they you can understand the benefit of it. But they love it for transitions, especially like guys who are like doing dynamic stuff with suppressors. Because it's not like you're having to loosen it up, drive out, but you had transition out to your pistol. You're not going to tighten it like you. But then that gun comes down like it hits you in the leg that suppressor does and it just burns to your clothes and then you have third degree burns while you're going for your pistol. That it's with that nice bisecting angle. So like whenever you're going going you're done engaging twists at your pistol. The sling brings the rifle perfectly down where that suppressor just sweeps out to the side. And so you can go out to your pistol and you're not having to worry about burning yourself. Yeah, it's it's always I think about the the old meme of like, oh, we'll do some, you know, transition drills with your suppressor. It's not that hot. And then it's a picture like Scarlett Johansson is like the suppressor.

1:02:15Yeah, I've got a couple of work shirts that just have holes on them from suppressors that are in burn. Yeah, like you know, that's that's why no Max pants are handy sometimes. Yeah, yeah. So those are things that people need to kind of be looking for. So what else do you guys have on the horizon since you've essentially monopolized R&D for the entire industry? The handguards are turning in R&D for the entire industry. It's sad. The amount of companies that are very large that have reached out to us to do stuff. It's been pretty fun. No, the we have barrels for work been working on some our own cold hand reports barrels. Which has been a nightmare in and of itself. But yeah, so we're doing some cold hand reports barrels that are tapered bars, which not really reinventing anything. It's just kind of doing our own version of it. Everything is going to have a taper to it, which I don't know. Are you guys familiar with taper?

1:03:20I am yes. Yeah, but it just squeezes the bullets. You're getting much better accuracy out of them. It's kind of it's what helps give that like those 11 and a half inch barrels like that. Sub the mill way accuracy. Yeah, that's where I think they shine the most is at that 11 and a half range. But that's also my. You know, like yeah, 16 inch because rifles for the gallery reasons, but 11 to 5 is kind of my jam. That's I mean, it has been most law enforcement departments by at 11.5. It's kind of that mid range between like we might need to engage further out, but like we're mostly moving around inside of like cars and houses. Yeah, it's like you can still engage targets to 300 yards with it. But yeah, it's it might not reach out to 600. But yeah, 300 you can still do easy, although I have seen guys run like a 12, 7 to 1000 before.

1:04:22You can get them out there when it that's I mean, I'll hear recently with some like the high pressure stuff we've seen guys reaching out to 1000 with or 800 with 11 and a half. But the yeah, they that and that's what I want to actually have a very good guide on that on the website on it like in the products. It's kind of like like what everything's for. And it's like 11 and a half is like if you're going to be inside or in a car most of the time versus a car being linked. The fear to be like in a house or a car most of the time, but you might have to step outside to do something. It's like 11 and a half's great. It's like 12, 12, 5 is like great for if you're like half and half, you're going to be inside outside kind of thing. And then like 10, 3 is like all right, I'm going to stay inside of the house. And then like I mean, you're 14, 5 and you're 16 inches or more patrol rifles or you're like, I don't know what we're going to do today.

1:05:25Well, and that that tracks that like this way say that 11 to 5 seems to really be the sweet spot. Yeah, especially like all of mine, I have cans on them and it's it's as short as you want to go for the to have the velocity, but still. We I have found my perfect builds. Well, there is one downside to it, but it's mostly the perfect build that I have just fallen in love with that I didn't think that there was anything they like that could do this for me. Strategic science suppressors. Have you guys played with him yet? I think it's some I played with a little bit of shot show. So we have, I wish I had him here. They're all in the demo kids right now. So we have one of their, it's the 1.3 over the barrel for there. It's just the muzzle device portion of it. The suppressor. So for anybody who doesn't know, those are the ones that look like a snail.

1:06:29Yes, yeah, like look like a little box at the end, like little you put like little like one of the mini cereal boxes on the end. Yeah, so we have so it and they go over the barrel and they're direct. Those things. And it goes over the barrel. So like where that little circle is in the middle is like where the end of your barrel is. Well, for some of them, I mean, some of them are they have a bunch of different versions of. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a they have over like 180 skews. And like they're not one amazing company to work with or out of Utah. Like you're like, hey, we need this. They will do anything for you. Well, for us like for manufacturing side where it's like, hey, we need to do this with this thread. Because all of our cold hair and forge barrels are going to have to 5.8 by 24 on them. So it's like we, and that creates all another problem, which muzzle device do you get? But yeah, so back to the whole story about the strategic science.

1:07:33So the 1.3 over the barrel 556 suppressor on a 12.5 inch rifle with it's because like so you still get to use that 10.5 inch handguard that you have on like 11.5. But your rifle only extends like another like two or three inches. So your gun is still short on a 12.5. Your gun's still shorter than 16 inches. And it's shorter than a 10.3 inch rifle with a hug suppressor on it. Right on. And like so you're running a 12.5 inch rifle at like a 14.5 inch length with a suppressor on it. No, that's cool. Yeah, so you're getting the performance of that 12.5, but in a shorter package than you are with running a suppressed 10.3. How's the how's the sound on it? I mean, the sound is good. I don't ever get to bog down on sound with suppressors because there's no such thing as a hearing safe suppressor.

1:08:37Because like after me repetitive shots like more than one shot. Yeah. Yeah, the good guys hearing it's like it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean after after a couple of shots, the OSHA standards go down like significantly where it's like more than a conversation. So like I don't ever get bogged down on the sound suppression. So when it, but they are stupid quiet, especially whenever you put on the secondary clip thing. Yeah, but flash so things are important to me is flash suppression and then sound difference. And so like they they sound different so you know who's shooting in a room. So you know, is that the shooter who shooting or is that the object or team shooting. But also there's no flash like there's zero flash on those things that they get down to like milling microns and they get very nerdy about it. But it's basically zero flash. And then it's flow through. So I mean, if anything, it steals gas from your system, then it doesn't have any blowback to it.

1:09:40It reduces felt recoil. So you're just the rifle just especially like the A5 system with like a hydraulic buffer in it. That thing on full auto just stays on target. Like it's not moving. That's awesome. So that has been my new favorite setup. No, I can I can see how I can get behind that. Yeah, so there is a downside and this is the only downside is you can't take it off. It is. Once it's on the top. Yeah, I mean, you I guess you technically could take it off. You're not taking it off fast though. I mean, it's screwed on there. You rock set it. It's shimmed like you have to time it. Yeah, so it's not a it's not a quick detach. That's. I mean, I mean, most of the suppressors on our guns don't come off anyway. Sure enough. We have talked to a few units that are like, yeah, we have to take suppressors off for.

1:10:41There's there are situations where we're going loud is something we have to do. It's like, no, okay, that makes sense. Right on. Well, Nathan, as we start to draw to a close here, where can people find you at on the big internet? Yeah, so I mean, Mitchell defense.com is the best place to find information on us. But I mean, we were mostly active on Instagram. I guess I guess everything we post to Instagram also goes to Facebook. So so it's it's at Mitchell defense for Instagram. Anything new we're going to release is going to come out on Instagram. But if you want to be front of the line on anything new and then also we've thought of discounts all the time to our subscribers for. On the website to sign up for our newsletter. A lot of the new stuff will come out there before it'll come out anywhere else. Right on. So yeah, just Google Mitchell defense you'll find them pretty much everywhere.

1:11:45Joe, you got anything you want to add tonight? Yeah, go check out what. Patriot patch. They're patch of the month club. Get a sticker with it. This is no guys for Halloween. Is pretty cool. It's like that. That sticker and patch caused quite the debate in my household. Because my daughter goes, yeah, it's Jason. I was like, no, that shy guy. I looked good and she's like, what are you talking about? Like that is from Super Mario Brothers 2. This is shy guys wearing a Jason mask. So yeah, check them out. It's like $20 a month. Get a free patch sticker every month in the mail. They have some pretty cool stuff. Also check them out for cool cleaning mats and some signage and just random. Any other random patches you're looking for. They've got a lot of good stuff out there. Jake is done a great job with that. Yep. Oh, yeah.

1:12:45And then, yeah, like usual, check Nathan and Michelle LeFence out on the website. Check them out on Instagram. Like, share their stuff. Check us out as well. Air 15 to podcast 2.0 on Instagram. Air 15 podcast on YouTube, Facebook and Rumble. Along with the air 15 podcast.com website. You can we do have a new page out there with a list of upcoming guests. So if you're wondering who's coming up. If we've got a guest on, we're trying to get him on there so everybody has an idea with links to their. Whatever website, social media so that you can kind of see who's coming on. Other than that, I don't have anything. All right. So last chance for parting words, Nathan. Yeah. Now, I appreciate you guys having us on. This is a great podcast. You're listening. Is amazing. I will say if you guys do we're also on Amazon for our cable management clips and the slings and then the triple gambit gloves are also on there.

1:13:52But if you do buy something on Amazon, please leave us a review. Because that is a very, very, very important piece of Amazon. I don't know guys. What you heard that. And now everyone knows what I am about to say. Folks, we live in interesting times. And with that said, guys, go out and get training. Go out and get medical training. Remember that no one is coming to save you. You are your own first responder. Expect to self-rescue. As go out and get training, be safe. And you folks out there, you stay safe and stay armed. This podcast has been a production of the Firearms Radio Network. For more, visit firearmsradio.net.