Apple HomePad Imminent, OpenAI Dots Explained, AI Safety Charade

0:00In space, no one can hear you scream. Welcome to primary technology, the show about the tech news that matters. Apple's homepad may be coming October 13th. That's in the news and iPhone Duo, you can pre pre-order it this Monday. Jet3PT had their DevDay and announced dots, AI agents that do a bunch of stuff for you. Paramount of points in new Co-CEO, Amazon is giving their delivery drivers glasses that record everything and a ton more. This episode is brought to you by Origin HQ and you, the members who support us directly. I'm one of your hosts, Stephen Robles, joined by the famous and infamous, who's just making his rounds everywhere. Jason A10, how's it going, Jason? It's good. I love the way you do our intros because every time without fail, you say something that I'm like, hold on, we're talking about that. I better go look, see what he put in here. I get to run down, I have at least 12 hours before. And every, yes, and I look through it. And every time you say something that I'm like, how did I miss that? Okay. The Amazon delivery glasses, that'll be in the lightning round. I mean, it's, you know, it's just the whole thing. All right. Now, I have some, the quote, let's start with the quote, in space, no one can hear you

1:02scream. It's pretty well known quote. It's one of the most famous quotes you've used. One of the most famous. Yeah, it's from Alien. It is from Alien. We're going to talk about the cutification of AI in a minute about all the companies like Muse AI and Dots trying to make their AI agents seem cute. And I said that because someone replied to my threads post about that with this picture, which is a teddy bear head on the Xenomorph from the movie Alien. And I thought that was pretty funny. It does seem about right after my experience. I do think of Muse as this little, I almost say cockroach, but I don't mean that in every short of sense. What was the, uh, the movie with the Gremlins? They turn evil at night or whatever. I mean, it's called Gremlins. Thank you. Okay. I've actually never seen it. The movie with the Gremlins. Oh, yes, the Gremlins movie. The Gremlins. I have seen batteries not included, which is a very deep cut, but I've not seen Gremlins. So have you seen batteries not included? Do you remember that movie? I think so, yeah. Leave us a five star rating review. Have you seen batteries not included and short circuit, all three of them.

2:04Those are movies. Hat or no hat? Jason was wearing a hat and hoodie today that I was not prepared for. It took me a full 10 minutes in our pre-show to actually figure out what's happening. To absorb it, to process it. Who am I talking to? You sound like Jason. You just, what AI things Jason looks like? That's just fake. Now, I said Jason was famous and infamous because Jason, you've been making the rounds everywhere. The articles have been covered by so many news outlets. You've been on the news. Can you say, or no, should I cut that out? No, you don't have to cut it out. I've done some, yeah, I've made the rounds. You made the rounds look better. Okay, we'll get it to that. I also wanted to say last episode, I wanted to point it out and missed it. We passed episode 150, Jason. 150 episodes. Isn't that wild? Now that does include one or two extra. Listen, I don't want to get into it. I tried to mark bonus episodes as bonus that are not actually numbered. Sometimes that happened anyways. But yeah, but 150, and we're coming up on our third year because we started in January

3:04of 2024. And so, yeah, we're coming up. But anyway, I enjoyed doing this podcast with Jason. It's so fun. Yeah, that's fun. All right, five star ratings and reviews. Thank you to Mick Bain, A99 from the UK, says loves the daily and weekly shows. So they're remembered. Thank you for that. Battery percentage on, but we won't hold that against him. But pencil up. Pencil up and watch only on Siri. So he's riding both sides. He's on both of our sides. And JP2E from the USA, listen, I know who this is. This is Jennifer Paterson 2E of the Virge. Left us a five star rating review and asked us to do more smart home coverage. Of course. It was so thank you. Thank you for that, Jennifer. And we want to have you on. So if you're listening, if this Apple Homepad really does come out in a couple weeks, please come on the show. We need to talk about it in-depth. That would be fun if this was. And generally, adamantly opposed to having guests, but I would accept that one. We'll do it as a bonus episode. Off-thurs. Yeah. I will conar from the UK battery percentage on point for you. And I wanted to thank, deeply thank Alex for sending me an email because I mentioned how

4:10Apple is going to be introducing subscriber video soon. That was kind of towards the end of the show last week. And I talked about how my process for making sure the audio was good for the video was very lengthy because I basically re-render the whole show because Riverside's audio isn't great. So I edit my own audio and then I put it together. And Alex sent me an email. He was like, hey, FFM-PIG, which is a great kind of utility that lives in the terminal of your Mac. It doesn't live there. But you know what I mean? That's how you use it. You can use FFM-PIG to swap out the audio track of a video file in seconds. And I asked him, well, how do you do it? I was like, I have no idea. I think it just is able to do that. I was like, okay. So I did what you do. I went to ask Claude. I said, hey, I heard FFM-PIG can do this. It's going to do this. And Claude was like, yep. I said, well, can you give me a script that I can use in a shortcut and it gave me the script. And so now I have a shortcut where when I run it, I can choose the video file I get from Riverside. I can choose the audio file that I edited, which has to be exactly the same length.

5:13But once I choose those, like in three seconds, it spits out another video file and it just swapped the audio track. And it's going to save me like an hour a week. And I think we'll make it possible, maybe when we, if and when Apple offer subscriber video and transistor, our host supports it, I might be able to do it all because this is going to save me a ton of time. So thank you, Alex. That was a huge help. And I'll put a link to that shortcut down in the shownance of somebody else as a reason to do that. Yeah. It's funny. I think Claude really likes FFM-PIG because the number of times I've asked it about trying to do something. I'm like, you know, when I export, sometimes I'll open a video in QuickTime and I'll just click Export Audio. But you don't get any choices about like whatever, whatever. And it's like, oh, you should use FFM-PIG for that. I'm like, I'm not doing that. And then it's like, what if I had a folder where every time an audio file dropped into that, you just transcribed it. And it's like, you should use FFM-PIG. I'm like, what? It doesn't whisper transcription. Just watch folders, which it does. It's like, Claude really wants me to use FFM-PIG. They've got like a behind the scenes deal or something. Yeah. I mean, I use shortcuts for that.

6:14I have another shortcut I'll put in the thing after I have to make a note. I have to... Well, the audio one is easy because the transcription app I use will just watch the folder and every time something shows up and it will just... So I have dropped... Well, we'll get to it later in personal text. I'll give you a hand. Jump into it. I'm so excited. Well, I have a shortcut that I'll also put in the notes where when you run the shortcut, you can select a folder. And if you have a bunch of video files in that folder, it will transcribe them all. And it'll just save.text files in that same folder with all the transcripts. And it's great. Yeah. We'll get to that in personal text. We'll save it. Amazing. Jason, you have just a few days left for you to get ready for your iPhone Duo pre pre-order. Okay. Apple is doing this. If you every year, Apple does this with the regular iPhone launch. But they're doing every iPhone Duo October 12th, which is... Sorry, no, you don't have a few days. You have a week and a few days. This is next Monday, October 12th. You'll be able to pre-pre-pre-order your iPhone Duo, meaning you can get ready. You can go in, you can say if you're trading a device in, you can choose your carrier,

7:16connect your carrier account, choose your model, the storage, the color, and get ready for the pre-order that's happening on the Friday. And that is Friday, October 16th is the official pre-order. But on Monday, the 12th, you'll be able to pre-pre-order. So get ready, Jason. I don't even understand why this is a thing that exists. You know what I mean? Hold on. Why? Explain to me why the pre-pre-order process makes any sense. They're telling you it's going to be really hard to pre-order. Is that the... They're trying to create just the perception that it'll be really hard to pre-order, so you should create your pre-order in advance. But creating a pre-order in advance is purely an exercise in like getting people excited about a thing, which is fine. No, no, no, no, no. If you're connecting this to a carrier, there has been many times where in the process of pre-pre-ordering that something, well, I will have to make a decision or something has to change, or just making sure like my card on file that the Apple Store is about

8:18to use is good. Like all those steps saves me a lot of time, especially the connecting carrier. Because when you do that pre... Have you never done the pre-pre-order? I've literally never done it and I've literally never bought a phone connected to a carrier. Well no, hold on. Not literally never, but not since like the iPhone 11. You just buy the unlock. Just buy them. Oh, what happened? I don't want none of those carriers listening to my iPhone. You put your connector to the Verizon as soon as you get it. Jesus, he's trying to stoke people. We'll get to Muse AI in a minute. Don't worry about it. But no, I connect it to my carrier every time. So I tell Apple... They charge you more for that, you know. They charge you $35 more for that. I mean, they're going to charge you that activation fee when you put it on the carrier. No, not when I just swap it. AT&T never paid for that. AT&T does, and they're scalpers. I'll just say that. Because I've had like a pixel phone or whatever that I've like switched my eSIM to and back. I've switched the line back and forth, and I get an activation charge every time I switch it. See, that's insane.

9:18That should not happen. But that's 18. And that's, listen, hey, I'm not switching it because AT&T's supposed to not going to offer this cellular handoff. So I can switch between my 18 Pro Max and do it. I mean, I didn't even charge you $35 every time you unlocked it. This is what I'm saying. If they're charging me that for activation, this is probably why they're not doing the handoff feature. Listen, I, I live with a 5-star rating review, shoot us up on social media. T-Mobile has the handoff feature now. Verizon has said it's coming. I'll have to actually price out because I have like my entire family is on this plan. But I mean, the handoff feature might make me switch. I've been on AT&T since singular, like singular error, like back in 05, I think. So I'm down. I'm down. I'll switch. We'll see. Anyway, I would do the pre pre order. If you want to order iPhone Duo, especially if you connect to a carrier, which I do, like I tell that I'm going to upgrade this phone line and all that kind of stuff. And you sign into your AT&T account on it. That's why that is useful. Monday, October 12th, the pre pre order is coming. And then the next day, Jason, supposedly, we are finally, after years of waiting,

10:23getting the Apple Homepad, Mark Gurman, who's launched a new show, Congrats Mark on launching a podcast. I believe it launches today as we record. The Homepad, October 13th, Mark Gurman says it's going to be coming. Apple's announcing it on that day. This is supposedly going to be the Squarish iPad, like screen, a six inch display Mark Gurman is saying, maybe on an arm, like the old iMac G4. And it will have some kind of facial recognition. So it knows what user is approaching it. And if you, you know, it might show your calendar messages and stuff when you approach it, and then it'll recognize someone else's they approach it. It'll be a guest mode, so it doesn't show any sensitive information. Of course, you'll be able to control your entire home. And then Siri AI would be built into this. And we also might get a new Homepad Mini and Apple TV at the same time at Mark Gurman is saying, because then all those devices will be uploaded to Siri AI. I'm so excited, Jason. I'm very excited. I want all of this.

11:24You don't look excited, Jason. I'm just not excited about the name. I don't know. But I don't know if it's going to call it homepad. If it's called the homepad, I don't think I would buy it. I don't want to tell people I have a, I don't know what, but I mean, here's the thing. What else would you call this thing? I don't know. What else is called homepad with display, which is honestly a thing Apple might do. Homepad with display. Yeah. They might. I mean display pad, which is really the same thing. Oh, no, not the same thing because it's like display pod, sorry. Apple. Apple home display. I feel like they could be, it could be that Apple home, it'll be Apple home something. It'll be the Apple home hub nest max. Thank you. Apple home. No, I think, I don't know, homepad. Do you remember when the iPad was, it was before the iPad came out, but there was a lot of pontification about the name. And people were like, it's going to be the I slate or it'll be the I tablet. And people were poo pooing the name iPad because it sounded weird at first.

12:28It sounded like a feminine hygiene problem. Yeah, hygiene problem. And people were like, there's no way they're going to call it iPad. And sure enough, Steve Jobs is like, we call it iPad. Yeah. So they're not afraid of that word, obviously, but home, homepad, I don't know, maybe that's what it is. What do you think over under you going to go home pad, you bet on that? I would bet against that, but it would not bet a lot. Small bet, small bet. I think, all right, well, that will say not. I think it's going to be something different than the home pad. And we'll see who's right. Just, we're both saying that or both saying I'm saying I'm betting it would not be the home pad, but I would not bet a lot of money. Oh, I see, I see. Because I'm saying it's also just pretty likely that maybe that is what they're going to call it. Maybe it's just Apple pad. No, that would be terrible. No, don't do that. No, at least, I think it is more likely that it's like a new paradigm, like it's just the Apple home display or something like that. Apple home hub. Apple home hub. That's what I'm saying it's going to be. Maybe. I mean, if you look back at the iPhone 18 event, Apple's new CEO, John Turner's many times

13:33was like personal intelligence hub, personal intelligence hub. He said it like a bunch of times. Maybe that's the name of the product. No, it's too long. The Apple personal intelligence hub. I think the Apple home hub, that sounds right. I'm going with that. I'm marking it down home. I'm writing it down. Apple home. Anyway, I'm excited for this. I looked back. Me and Andrew talked about this on home kit insider. I think seven years ago was the earliest episode that we mentioned it. This has been long rumored. Long rumored. And I'm writing down Apple home display just because I wanted to have something on the record. Okay, very good. Very good. We will check back on Jason's note pad. His Apple home note pad in a couple of weeks. It's very sophisticated. Very sophisticated. You know, side note, you have like 13 remarkable tablets. And you still use paper when you write down notes during the show. Why don't you use a remarkable? Well, I typically throw this paper away afterward and I should not throw the remarkable away though. No, you should not. You should not.

14:33They're expensive. They're expensive. I see. The remarkable that I like is the move, which is small. Sure. And the paper I'm using is not small. It's big. It is just the other thing that's nice about it is because it is just a large sheet of like a large pad of paper. I don't have to be especially precise when I just reach over to write something down. Okay. So large size is a priority. It's like speed. I just need to be able to quickly grab the pencil and just write something. And yeah, that's why. That's really the reason. And it's also pretty, everything I'm writing down here is something with the exception of Reminds Steve and to tell me something. Yes. Pretty much everything else on this list is simply for the show. Right. I don't, I don't, it doesn't need to be seen. You just burn it. Yeah. You just stay in there. I don't see it, but it's not. It's actually trash can. I just drop a match. That's not safe. That's not safe. All right. You've been on a tear speaking of speed. You've been doing a lot of stuff. And I just wanted, this is the section of the show where we just read Jason's articles together. No, we're not going to do it. But you have a new episode of Creative Effort with Ron Johnson.

15:36Yeah. Who was the creative, the Apple store alongside Steve Jobs is some great Steve Jobs stories in that episode. So we'll link that below. Congrats. New episode. I know I did actually get some like comments from people. They're like, finally, so fragile. You're back. Someone even posted on social media like Jason's back. I'm like, I do a podcast every week. Every week. I'm this one in a while. I published three to five articles a week. I've been around. I mean, three to five articles a week. And I mean, you've been on another tear. And I just wanted to say one, well, great work, first of all, because you know, you covering this meta AI muse AI stuff, the verge covered it. Who else is linked to it? I mean, I think nine to five Mac, Apple insider, which makes me mad. Fine. I like Apple insider. But like everyone keeps linking to their article. I'm like, but they did link to mine. So that's fine. They like to it in years. And it is funny. Like you pointed out that there's people from meta who refuse to talk to you directly,

16:36but are replying to all the other people sharing these articles. And to be clear, you've not heard anything from that. Well, so to be clear, I spoke yesterday with someone off the record, or on background, who is going to help me get to the bottom of this. Let's put it that way. And so the next step is to send all of the information I have to them so that we can get some, but one of the things I wanted to say is like, you know, your chief spokesperson is out there essentially calling me a liar, but no one has bothered to talk to me yet. So there's been seen cool, like maybe I'm more like listen, I'll send you the Mac mini. It's not even mine. I don't care. I'll probably wouldn't like that. But yeah, but I'm just saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have absolutely happy to figure out what what actually happened here. And if what actually happened, you're looking, you're like, oh, you see how you managed to somehow click this one thing that whatever, whatever. Sure. My point will still be, yes, but I was clear about what I wanted it to do. And this was not one of those things. So that's still a problem. But like I'm perfectly willing to entertain the possibility that some of this was just like,

17:39I didn't notice that I had given a permission to do something. The problem is, like I have gone through, I've used quad to go through everything to help me figure out like what's going on. And decompod the app, it's looking through all the logs. It's checking the TCC register, which is when every, every time an app will ask for permission, an app asks for permission to do something, there's a register, but unfortunately it only records the last instance of that. So there's no way to know like statuses of things. Meta does take analytics from use. And so presumably there are analytics of like what you may have enabled at different times. And the person I spoke with was like, would you be willing to give us permission to do that? And I'm like, give us like, whatever, do it you want. But my, you already took my messages at my point. You already read all my messages was Steven. Yeah, exactly. But it's like, I'm, it is, so I have, so I want to give Meta some credit. At one point, they suddenly became aware that I was trying to talk to them about it. I heard from like in David Singleton, who is the person who's been going around responding to all of these things, actually did send me a message, put me in contact with someone,

18:40and that person is part of their comp's team. And we did have a phone conversation. So at some point, I would love to be able to update the story with like, here's what happened. We do not know yet what has happened. Okay. Do I need to explain what has happened? I've been talking about this before. To be clear, if you want to listen to last week's episode, Jason tried Muse AI, the app from Meta, which is their agent, downloaded on your Mac, and it started doing weird things, and you discovered that it basically grabbed your messages database file from your Mac, and uploaded that, or at least was read it. Yeah, it is uploaded, and was obviously watching it, because it, we literally sent me a push notification moments after Steven and I texted each other back and forth. Exactly. So there's that. So that last week, Jason goes in depth about it, and now we're just, it's kind of like the aftermath, which hopefully you'll get an update. I really would be great to discuss if you actually get to speak with Meta on the record. Yeah, it is weird to log on. This is not the first time this has happened to me. Every so year, every so many years, something that I do breaks containment.

19:44Yes, yes. Yeah, they're, and it is taken on different, there was the year that we declined $10,000 to get off of a Delta flight to Alaska, then you know, we passed it up, apparently, and that I never heard the end of. And I ended up on the nightly news for that one. So it's like the guy who, the moron who turned down $80,000 to get off of a flight. And then, you know, there was also the time that, you know, my article's in viral viral for not a great reason. So, how do we still often this happens? It doesn't really phase me, but it is weird to open Twitter, which I don't actually open that often and to be like, oh, like this is being shared by, you know, Jason Galganis and like, yeah. Yeah. But I think it's the bigger picture of all of these companies, which we're going to get into all the releases that every company has done, like, Chaturpe T dots, Mews AI, like agents and having these AI's do things for you is just the thing. It's the big in the news. And then the question is, what is the cost? You know, right. What do you have to give up to actually have this advantage or benefit from these apps?

20:49And I think the verge cast, even I was listening to their dots episode this morning, and they were talking about, again, the Mews AI stuff. So Mews AI, I've not tried it. And despite what Instagram will tell you, Stephen has not tried it. I'm going to link three of Jason's articles. One was meta strategy to get you to use Mews as to lie about your friends, which you've mentioned primary technology in like three articles. Thank you, but that's wonderful. And I even linked to it and I think this one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you did link to it. But this was, I think we touched on it last week, but our friend Nate saw this, you know, messaging Instagram that, hey, your friends are using Mews. And there's this cute little character, which I want to talk about that in a minute. But it was like Stephen Robles, primary technology and Jason Atenner on Mews. And your articles go as on to say like, well, one primary technology, the Instagram account has never used Mews, which is the case because I run that again. I don't know. I've never used an okay, I tried to use Mews and I tried meta glasses, which I remembered

21:49when I did the meta ray bands a couple months ago. It was the meta AI app. It was not Mews, but that meta AI app, as far as I know, became the Mews app, is that accurate? I don't know if that's exactly true, but like in their mind, certainly meta AI is now Mews. Right. And so in their terminology, because I connected those glasses and downloaded that app once, which I've since deleted from my phone, I have used Mews. But even that is disingenuous because to say you've used Mews is not the same thing as to say you are on Mews. Yes. And you're on Mews. Yes. That's the wording is strange. So anyway, that was a great article. And then I appreciated you, this is the one that I think you linked to us. You talked about how AI is like Jurassic Park. You mentioned on episode of this show back in July, and you finally put it down into words on ink.com so you can make sure that everybody knows that you did this first. Well, I do think it wasn't just that. I mean, I know. I know.

22:50I have not heard anyone else make the direct comparison to this particular movie. But the, the contrast I was trying to make is like, there was this phase where everyone was talking about her. Like that was the ideal AI, whatever experience. And it's kind of depressing movie, but whatever. And I know that is very depressing. That is not the metaphor that we should be going for because there's a much more obvious metaphor that is that the velociraptors are trying to get out of the fence. Exactly. And I think why this is all germane is muse. I'm just looking right now is still the number one app, number one free app in the app store. Musei is above chat GPT. It's above all the things. It's above threads, you know, TikTok, Gemini, even though they've just released a new model. Musei is just number one. But it is still doing the various things. Not only did it read Jason's messages, which is problematic, but there was also a YouTuber

23:51who was trying to use muse to post something on Facebook Marketplace. And it turns out he came to realize that muse had shared his address. It gave his address after a guy and a guy just showed up at his address. This is Matt Robb YouTuber. And this is one of those promises that like musei will help you post things on Facebook Marketplace, help you manage the things. And my wife has actually noticed this. She's looking at vans on Facebook Marketplace, like mini vans or whatever. And she was like, you know, in the last week or two, every listing is the same. Every listing is written and just sounds exactly the same. And I told her about this and she was like, oh, well, that makes sense because it just all reads like the same listing. But the promise is that it would help you, whatever, with Facebook Marketplace stuff. And someone actually asked me the other day about a shortcut. You know, my shortcuts can be either like, can you make a shortcut that gives me a summary of my WhatsApp messages every day? And I'm like, well, no, one shortcuts, like WhatsApp doesn't have the kinds of actions

24:54where you can just pull all your WhatsApp messages, nor do they want to give you that kind of access to your WhatsApp messages. And two, unfortunately, your best option is probably muse because muse is metas product. And you could probably ask me use about all your WhatsApp messages. I don't know that. You definitely can. You definitely can. So like, and this feels a little bit like the siloing that we've talked about and has been you know, iPhone or Android or whatever, it's like, if you want to have helpful AI agent activity in your metaproducts, you have to use muse. And it looks like if you want to use dots or whatever, chat with you is, we're going to get to that. It has like 4,000 connectors, but there's like a kind of a silo of products there. And so I don't like that feeling, just that these silos are starting to happen because every company wants to have its agent and AI, sorry, super intelligence.

25:54That's the official term. I don't know if we're going to, Jason just rolled his eyes. I don't know if we're going to get arrested if we say artificial intelligence. No, just kidding. I'll explain that in a second. Anyway, I don't know. What was your general feeling? Have you written all these articles, muse, AI is out there? Has your feelings changed? What do you think? I mean, okay, a couple of pieces of information. The first of all, I just got an email this morning from sensor tower. They're the people that like tracked app store downloads and stuff like that. And apparently muse has surpassed 5 million downloads, which is double what chat Gbt was at this point, just to be cool, like what to be clear, like when it came out, you know, 22 days after launch or whatever. So it's being download, what's weird about that is chat Gbt was started from zero, meaning like it was a thing that just popped out into the zeitgeist and then people started downloading it. Whereas muse was like, listen, if you open your phone to an app owned by meta, like it's almost impossible. I'm impressed you haven't downloaded muse on accident at this point because it is just everywhere. It's like, here is an ad for shoes on Instagram.

26:55Let me tap on this. Oh, actually, it's an ad to download muse to buy shoes for you. Like it's insane. It's just completely bonkers. So it's not surprising to me that they have had a huge uptake and it does seem to be everywhere. The one thing I don't like about this is a sidetrack. I apologize. One thing I don't like about threads right now is because I posted the thing about muse, my entire like for you column is just meta employees talking about what they're doing on muse, which is insane. But I do want to, sorry, I wanted to clarify one thing about the story, the marketplace story. Yeah, yeah. So, and I think that this actually highlights the real problem with muse, which I think I said this last week, which is that it's just incredibly zealous to do things for you, even when you don't ask it to or expect it to, because he had given muse permission to do like to give out his address or something like that. But he didn't expect that that meant like carte blanche whatever. And he didn't expect that that would mean that like muse essentially acted in that particular interaction as though it were a human who was going to meet the person because the person showed up and that the seller was not there.

27:57So now everyone was mad, right? Well, and apparently in that article, I'll link a business inside article. Apparently Rob said that he did check a box for allow always that allowed muse to send a template containing his address to the buyer. Though, I guess the weird part is that always allow gave muse permission to accept a low ball offer for the thing that he had listed on Facebook marketplace zero, like zero or something like that. I'm ridiculous. So that was, I mean, he did click always allow, but what that means. And again, I'm using my point. The expectation that the user have is different than the exact permissions like taking in the most technical sense, which just tells me that the people who have made this are not thinking through the actual user experience, because, okay, technically you have permission to do this thing. Okay, cool. I got permission to do this thing. I'm just going to do the thing. No reason, like Steven, if you asked me to sell your Mac studio for you, and you're like, could Jason just just make this thing happen, right?

28:58Sure. I'm not a moron. I'm not going to sell it for $50. I mean, for $50, I'll just buy it myself. It's fine. Right? Like, I just give you $50. You'll know another different. But like, muse doesn't understand social norms or how we actually interact as human beings. And so it's just doing whatever. So that's the part that meta either did not think through or isn't being clear enough to users. Do you think, because this is the promise of dots from ChatGbT2, like, did you find or can you see where it's actually useful? And did you, was it useful to you? Because I'm looking at the Muse app on the app store, like, in just in the screenshots. And, you know, the promise is, you know, fill out this PDF form with my information, which might be helpful, or, you know, compare these items for shopping by me, movie tickets, you know, find the showing for this movie that has two seats together. And supposedly, Muse can do that using the browser. And if we didn't make this clear yesterday, the promise of Muse and I think dots from

30:02ChatGbT, is like, you basically have a virtual machine in Meta's Cloud that is running your Muse AI agent. And so they are saying, like, you have your own PC in the Cloud, basically. And it's a virtual machine, you know, not a physical box, but it's on a physical box. Anyway, that's the promise of these agents, because up until this point, like, open claw or the other things where your agents would be doing stuff on your computer, your computer had to be awake. It couldn't go to sleep. This is why the joke is everybody walking around with their laptops with the lid slightly open because the agent has to do stuff. The computer has to be active. And so what Muse AI is promising in ChatGbT dots is like, you know what, you don't worry about your computer. We're going to do it on the Cloud. We're quote unquote giving you a computer in the Cloud, a virtual machine. So your agent has access to a web browser and all these tools so it can do all these things for you. So you can just send a message to Muse using the app on your phone and shut your phone off, live your life, and it's going to be doing all these things in the background.

31:02Did you find anything or do anything useful from Muse? Or do you feel like it would be useful? Yeah, I haven't done like the most agency of things with it necessarily. But I did, I have used it to do a few things that I that I wouldn't have been able to use just in our old chat. I think what this is showing us is that the man actually has the right model. Okay, it's based on open claw, but open claw was the thing you had to install and like come back mini. That's why you couldn't buy Mac mini's for a while because of open claw, right? So you had to understand what you're doing. Then you had to have a way of connecting with it. And I think people were sending it. What's that message is or something. I can't remember exactly what this signal telegram message is. Maybe it's telegram or something like that. So, but Mata just combined those two things. So like here, there's a map on your phone, install it on your computer, but also don't install it on your computer. You just install it on your phone. No, I mean like for real, and there's a computer in the cloud. Every single person has a computer in the cloud now. That really is like the model.

32:02That is what, I mean, imagine if Siri intelligence had that. You could just, on your phone, have it doing stuff like this. And that's why I think Bentomson started calling like Mata Connect. Meta's business now is just muse delivery devices. It's like the glasses. The reason that they can just talk to, you can just talk to it and do stuff is because it's just sending all that stuff to the cloud. Yeah. And it's just doing all that stuff in the cloud. And so they're just trying to get around the restrictions of doing stuff on your phone. I have not asked it partially because like, you know, it read all my messages. So I'm a little bit leery to like ask it to do things. Most of what, most of what it does now is send me a brief every day. Sometimes I read it. And then sometimes in the afternoon, I'll be like, hey, this news broke today. Yeah. After I send you the brief. And if I don't open muse or look at it, it'll send me notifications and say, I just don't want you to miss this. I'm like, you're a little like pushy back off. And what was interesting to me is the way we react to if a human being was doing things

33:02for you versus if I had an executive assistant who sent me those text messages, I'd be like, thank you for reminding me. But when it's an half on my phone, I'm just like, back off, bro, you're just being too pushy. I feel like as someone who considers himself a quasi-text journalist, I'm going to try it. I am downloading news on my iPhone right now. I am not putting it on my Mac to be clear. I'm only letting it run on sandbox devices like an iPhone and an iPad. And we will see. We will see. Apparently, I have a whole conversation in here already. Things I can help you do, explore your ideas and feed. Oh, I did have to do something interesting. Okay. I did an experiment. Can I tell you about my experiment? Okay. Okay. I was just curious. There was like no practical purpose for this. But I was like, let's just see what it could do. So I said, hey, what I'd like you to do is go through my Instagram. And I want you to tell me who has liked the most of my posts in the last 18 months.

34:05I think there's no reason to care. But you could figure that out. You would have to literally count every post and just do it. I was like, okay, I just want you to go through, look at my Instagram account. Tell me the 15 people who have liked my stories and reels and posts in the last 18 months. And so it did. It counted it and then it couldn't do stories at first. So the one thing I did do, it goes on stories, I hit a wall that's not the tooling problem that's Instagram itself. I checked everything available. But unfortunately, archive stories do not save likes. And so my response was, listen, chucklehead. That's just not true. You said chucklehead. I did. I said, it's all there for older stories. All of them. It only shows likes, not viewers, but I don't care. But your archive does show you who liked those stories. It just doesn't show you who viewed those stories. It's like, oh, chucklehead accepted. You're right and I'm wrong. Viewers expired for 48 hours, but likes persist. So you know what it did? I gave it permission to log into my Instagram account because it's fine. It's meta. It's like whatever it's meta. So but I did. I actually had to log in.

35:05It gave me what's called a secure store, a thing to tap. Like Apple, the different thing Delta does is if you message them like, you want to log into your account? And it's like, yeah, you're already Delta, like it's fine. So I did that and it literally went through and it's browser in the cloud. All of these things and gave me back a result. I was never going to do that because I don't care that much. I just wanted to see what it would do. But I can imagine stuff like that being useful. We were like, I wish I had this piece of information. I'm never going to put in the work to do it. But you know what? This robot I'll do it. All right. Well, I haven't on my phone now. It's interesting because you can, it's already connected to a browser, Facebook, Instagram and threads, meta's properties. You can apparently give it access to your calendar, contact reminders, help, don't, don't do that. Apple Home. That's got me a little curious, Jason. I mean, I'm curious what it would do to reach his own. I don't know. I don't know. But also things like Dropbox. Okay. I'm going to use it this week and we will, I will report back. And hopefully Jason will actually get to talk to someone at meta. But yeah, I mean, it's number one free half in the app store.

36:07It's for a reason. So I don't know. Maybe I'll ask it to list my Mac studio on Facebook Marketplace. Just kidding. Oh, you know what I will ask it to do? To find my G4 power book that I sold years ago. Boom. Buy the serial number because it has access to all the, I'm going to ask a Chuck eBay every day. Check. I'm going to do that. I'll report back. I'll report back. Unfortunately, this may not be a very exciting story because if it's not on eBay, it's never going to find it. I don't know. But if it finds it. And it gives out your address and somebody shows up at your house or the power book that would be amazing. I mean, if someone showed up to my house with my old power book, I might not be mad about that. You probably make them cold brew. I probably invite them inside. I want to tell me how you've used this computer for the last 10 years. I want to know. What was your experience interacting with me? I will. I will report back. I will do the thing. Maybe I'll make a video about this too. We'll see. And let me know what use cases, if you've been using Muse AI on your phone. Again, be very wary of doing it on your Mac. The permissions seem problematic in what it's doing there.

37:08But if you were using on your phone or iPad, let us know what you've been doing with it. And if it's been good, we got to talk about AI self-regulation because a quasi-law was passed or an agreement. Not a lot. Sorry, sorry, sorry, not a lot. Unaccord. Unaccord was signed. Non-binding agreement that says nothing. That says nothing. I still got to get to a chat GPT dev table. Before we do, I want to thank our sponsor, Origin HQ, which has, once again, one of the coolest websites. If you just go to this website because you can roll your mouse over this little animation, whatever they did, this is cool. Whatever that is. But anyway, here's the thing. Origin HQ. We're going to be talking about agents this entire episode in the past weeks. We've covered about the breaches with open AI and hugging face. Anthropic has talked about their own breaches. We're going to get into that as we get into this AI accord and self-regulation. But here's how things are going. And the agent with real credentials might hit something unexpected. It could decide to fix something on its own. An AI agent might wipe a production database in about 9 seconds.

38:12Nobody attacked anyone. It was just an agent doing what it thought was the job. And afterward, the hard part wasn't to fix. It was that nobody could say exactly what the agent had done. That's the hard part, figuring out what happened. That's the gap. And most teams have the prompt and the final answer. But everything in between, the commands at random, the files at change, the credentials that picked up along the way, it's gone the moment the terminal closes. And companies are handing agents real credentials on employee laptops right now. Well, that's what Origin does. A user mode sensor on the endpoint records the agent's work as a trace. Who started the session, what was asked, what the agent reached, and what changed, all in one timeline. So when something unexpected happens, you can open the trace and read the session in the order it happened. Prompt to outcome instead of rebuilding it from logs that only ever saw fragments. Just might be able to use this to figure out what muse I was doing to the stuff. It's an independent evidence. The model's log is the agent's side of the story, but the endpoint record is what actually happened. So Origin is endpoint AI observability.

39:14You can see what a trace looks like at originhq.com slash primary technology. Go there right now. See the awesome website. And that's originhq.com slash primary technology. See what a trace looks like. That link is also in the show notes. Thanks to origin for sponsoring this episode. So last thing on the the meta side, I also want to I'm going to link Joanna Stern's interview because she got to interview Mark Zuckerberg. I love the first question she asked him was is AI going to kill us all. And as you would expect Mark Zuckerberg was like, well, as long as we're all very careful and we all do what we're supposed to do, it could be great. The answer should have just been no, I don't think that's going to kill everyone. Like that's what he should have. That's what a human would have said. Exactly. Wait, do I love this conspiracy theory? Is Mark Zuckerberg muse? I mean, we don't have nearly enough time to get into that. But I'm just saying like this is a good interview. Joanna Stern does a good job, a very good job. She's like one of the best at this sort of thing.

40:16Like she just is. She asks like, she's like the friendliest person asking you the hardest questions. Exactly. Exactly. Like I want to be her when I grow up. Whenever I interview someone, there's a point in it where I go, what would Joanna Stern ask right now? That's a real thing that I ask. But WJSD, what would Joanna Stern study? But definitely Mark Zuckerberg was just, he was just very Mark Zuckerberg. And no matter how hard he tries, he just has such a hard time with this sort of thing, especially when she pushed his heart on him. Because it's like he'd never conceived that someone might feel that way. Right. So anyway, great interview. Joanna, thank you for signing my book at WWDC. I'm not a robot. It's a great book, right? And I was in a conversation the other day with people and AI came up. And it's interesting. People seem to be receptive when you offer new knowledge about how this stuff works. But also how they think it works is usually very wrong. And like what people are worried about. It's just an interesting dynamic right now.

41:17Do you enter into these kinds of conversations with people? Do people ask you, hey, what about you? What about AI? Do people ask you that? I mean, I'll have people that will say, like, I heard this thing randomly that there was going to be like, AI is going to kill us all. I'm like, you should stop listening to that. I mean, I'm not, listen, to be clear, I'm not suggesting that it's a Jurassic Park. Okay. I'm not saying it's a zero percent possibility. It didn't kill everybody. Killed some people. That's the tag of life. Also just a movie hasn't actually killed anyone. Sure. I'm just saying, like, I think it's a non-zero possibility. I also don't think that it's a really big possibility at this point that we should be freaking out about. I had someone ask me, someone who lives in my house, do you think you should like stock up on anything? I'm like, the agents don't use toilet paper. I don't think we're going to run out of it. Like it's fine. Exactly. Exactly. So, all right. With AI self-regulation. Number one, the Trump administration has said we don't want to call it artificial intelligence anymore because artificial is fake, like the fake news.

42:19It's quoting Donald Trump. That's not me talking. That's what they said. Apparently, it's now super intelligence, at least here in the United States. This accord was signed by a bunch of the heads of AI. It's called the White House Accord on super intelligence. This is, there's four major points of what all these people are agreeing to. I'll get to the points in a second. Number one, there's a typo in this agreement. This is like the official agreement that was signed. Totally not important, right? Not an important word at all. Not important. It says, President of the United States swapped the D for an S. And this is signed by a soon-darber child of Google, Dario Amadev and Thropic, Mark Zuckerberg of Metta, Greg Brockman from Open AI, Elon Musk, XAI and Jensen Wong from Nvidia. Second, Greg Brockman's signature. What is that? I mean... I mean, he at least would have seen the first three people sign the thing.

43:22I would have faked something nicer. I mean, this looks like... I don't know. This is logo, it's monogram. Okay. I don't know. This will be the chapter art, so you can all see Greg Brockman's signature as well, it's very strange. Notably, and people were pointing this out on social media. You know who's not on this agreement and had to sign their name? John Ternus, or Tim Cook, or anybody from Apple? Or... Yeah. I'm Sachin Adela. Right, Microsoft. So that is interesting, I feel like. Well, one, it's just that Apple is not seen as one of the major players in super intelligence. Well, they're not a frontier model company. Not a frontier model company, sure. And CRI was distilled from Gemini or something like that. So anyway, just point of information, you know, they're not on this agreement. But this agreement, there's four things. And the idea is we need safety in this AI frontier research.

44:25And so it states a few things. One, every company is responsible for developing its own technology safely. So the companies are responsible. Do your best. Do your best. This is what we're going to do. You read them and I'm going to translate them. Okay, very good. Internal controls, monitoring risks like cybersecurity and biosecurity. Be really careful. Internal controls. An internal oversight team is required. You guys are fine. You just figured out and decide if you did it right. Okay, yeah. All of this. Great your own papers. Great your own papers. That's exactly right. Now, but number three, independent external auditors is part of the requirements. Open the door when we come by and wave. Just work with your door open. And number four, it's like being in college. I went to a very small like private like Christian school where it's like you had to have your door open if the girls came over. This is what this is. Sure. And number four, a board committee reviewing findings, which means the company's own board. Higher a grown up so that it at least looks like you're being responsible.

45:28That's exactly right. And notably the document lists no penalties for not doing any of these four things, which I don't know, I slipped that did not mean to say law before is 100% not a law. There's not even ramifications if you don't do it. Well, that's because it's a non binding agreement. You don't have to do any of these. The only thing you had to do if you are, you know, soon to our pie is show up at this thing and put your signature on a piece of paper. That means absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. The document does say over time it may make sense to codify these steps into laws or regulations. So not doing anything now. The most interesting thing is how quickly this happened after the pacing the frontier piece by Dario Aveday. Right. Like a week. Yeah, like 10 days or something like that. And it just tells you like, okay, well, you know, we don't have a clue how to do any of it. Like how to regulate this. But you know what, we should look like we care. What have we got a bunch of people in the room? We signed a piece of paper that doesn't mean like they could have just signed my show notes

46:30piece of paper. We've had as much of a force of effect. It is a bit of a, would you say publicity type stunt? Oh, I mean, it's purely just for the PR. Right. Exactly. And related, open AI said they're pausing training because it's most powerful models had rogue agents target the actual government. Yeah, no problem at all. No problem at all. We're good to go. We're good with the self regulation. Just be, hey, hey kids, just be careful. Hey, don't just wear helmet. Maybe. I also wanted to link this interview. I'm about halfway through and we talked about this in the pre show, but Bill Gates was interviewed by Ezra Klein for the New York Times in an opinion piece. And Bill Gates, he's got a lot of thoughts about AI as you would expect. And I feel like I've personally, and as we've talked about on the show kind of waffled between it's going to kill us all or maybe it's Jurassic Park will kill some of us and maybe it's fine. So I'm just going on this journey with you all listeners and viewers.

47:34Bill Gates in this interview, he tells Ezra Klein people are thinking this is like the industrial revolution where yes, many jobs changed, but they're just replaced by other jobs. Think, you know, a cart wouldn't wheel repair man for horse and carriages. That job went away when cars came around, but then we also added jobs for like car repair people and mechanics. And he's like, that's how people are comparing this AI revolution to the industrial revolution where some jobs went away, but they were replaced by other jobs. Bill Gates was like, nah, this is like human evolution. He says this in the interview where it's not that jobs will change. It's that huge swaths of jobs will just go away. And Ezra Klein pushes him on a number of these points, which I appreciated. Ezra was like pretty forceful in asking him some of these questions, but he even says like countries that might be not on the frontier of AI where they don't have companies like

48:37Anthropic or OpenAI leading the charge on these frontier models, they will be affected just like the United States and Western countries will be just might take longer time and that it will filter down to every aspect of civilization in the coming years. So I wouldn't say Bill Gates is like, it's going to kill us all, but he was saying the ramifications, especially on jobs is going to be very significant. As we discussed in the pre show, Jason, I mean, you kind of painted this as like, you know, Bill Gates, how much are we? How would you phrase it for those like you? He thinks a lot about these things. Sure. That's fine, but we are two generations past peak Bill Gates, right? The PC was Bill Gates, Windows, right? And this is the person who missed mobile, right? The next generation came. And so there is a little bit of like, he's very smart, very thoughtful. Like I've listened to a lot of Bill Gates interviews. I've written about Bill Gates quite a bit. So like I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about by any means, but I do

49:38think that like, why is Bill Gates out there doing this? Like what is the reason? Is this just how you continue to feel relevant? Because you don't need the money. He doesn't get paid to sit down with us or crying. And he's not selling a product. So he, so on that regard, maybe he genuinely just wants to be a voice in this. And obviously Microsoft, he's still pretty closely tied to Microsoft, at least in perception, is very much a part of this. And so I understand that. But like, I don't know, like, I don't, he also just basically took both sides of the argument. Right. A little bit. I mean, he was, he was pretty strong in saying like, this is having, is going to have more than affecting people think. And I think, well, part of the reason, at least for me, like when I see someone like Bill Gates talk about it, I like the idea of someone not at one of these frontier AI companies talking about AI. Because anytime you hear Mark Zuckerberg or Sam Altman talk about AI, they obviously have huge self investment into this product. And so it's going to color their opinion of where it is and where it's going.

50:43And it seems rare to be able to have a voice that's not so invested where like the bottom line of their own company is going to be affected. And I don't know saying like, that's why you should all go listen to Bill Gates. Is that I'm kind of looking for voices that are not as attached to it. And if anybody has others that you think match that, you know, level of experience in the business, like, I don't know what you're Walt Mossberg on this. Like, what does Walt Mossberg think? He's probably not been involved in day to day AI operations. But those are the kind of voices that I would be curious to hear of about the AI that's not connected to these companies directly. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I think that makes sense. And I think that at some point you ask yourself, like, what is the role Bill Gates wants to play? I think about George W. Bush. Like he's no longer president. He basically spends this time painting bets and riding bikes. Like with them. And every once in a while, you might get him to comment on like, hey, former president

51:45guy is this the end of civilization as we know it. And he's always like, I got to go paint a picture. You know, so there is a part of me that wonders like, what is the right role for someone like Bill Gates? Because again, he's seen it all. And he is very thoughtful. But also it's like, you could make the argument that, you know, you're his full time job at this point is giving away all of his money. Like, that seems like it should keep you pretty busy. Right. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, I thought the interview was interesting. I'll link it down in the show notes. We have to go to chat GPT Dev Day. And so this is like OpenAI's WWDC. I feel like that's the best way to think about it. This is where they're announcing products, but also tools for developers using OpenAI. They had about an hour long keynote video, which I'll link their blog post. And let's see. Yeah, it was about an hour long. High level. I think about dots, which was the kind of the biggest announcement and the promise there. And they have a bunch of other features and products they're launching like chat GPT space, codecs in the cloud.

52:45Seeing this, number one, I hope John Turner springs back live events like people on stage talking. And I know Jason making a face, but like, don't let Sam Almond and Mark Zuckerberg be the only guys out here being charismatic on stage. And I have to say for all Sam Almond, like if you've watched interviews with Sam Almond in the past, like he's kind of an weird character, like doesn't come across great interviews. And this kind of presentation, he was actually charismatic sometimes. And I was like, ah, I want Apple to do that again, like put somebody on stage. I have to think John Turner's could do that. So anyway, just, I don't why. I hear people saying this like John Turner is just going to bring back in person live events. Why? That what they're doing works for them and it scales way bigger than just putting people on the stage. Because I think it humanizes the company. See I think it makes them look small in comparison. I just disagree. Like seeing Sam Almond, like I watch probably 45 minutes of this hour long keynote, seeing Sam Almond on stage talking about these things, reacting to the crowd and interacting with

53:50people in that real sense. Like, yes, Craig Federighi and John Turner's they've been doing interviews like post iPhone event post WDC. They choose some select outlets to do interviews with. But again, those are produced, not live, no live audience. Seeing Sam Almond do this, I want to see Apple do this again. And you know, we, I don't know what we talked about it on last week's show. I linked it in top five tech. But there was that Q&A video of the Intentigate session and Steve Jobs is answering questions about Intentigate live for like over an hour to this press. And you just, I feel like you, you see the human side of the company, but also you get to see these people in a not, like, her medically sealed environment. I think of like a clean room environment. And I feel like the videos Apple does, obviously they're very well produced. You can do things in these pre-recorded videos that you can't do live on stage, but you can do both. I mean, all the live keynotes of Apple in the past, there would be live presentations,

54:54live on stage demos. And then they would play a video of Johnny I've talking about aluminum. So you can still do both, do the produce videos and do the live on stage. But I think it, I think it brings a human element humanizes a company, which all these AI companies are needing to do as much as possible. They need to appear as human as possible to build trust. And I think that, again, the humanizing in the trust part is what builds it. So that's why I hope to see it. Yeah, I just think that iPhone event is too big for this. Maybe you could get away with something like SWW3DC, but I just, I don't think, I think that the scale at which Apple is producing the iPhone event just so dwarfs this. So because the contrast to that is they do smaller events where, you know, I've been to events in New York City where someone comes out and talks to you and then you still watch a video or whatever. I can see them doing that because those are just a different scale. The iPhone event though is the largest, most widely watched largest tech event in the world. It has more people watching it than, I mean, Hollywood would love that viewership for

55:55some of its production. For sure, but I feel like, I mean, if Google can do it with IO and Medicare can do it with their event, like, absolutely could do it. What I'm just saying is that what they want, the message they want to communicate, the production of it is part of that message. And I think that Apple, that's what Apple wants to be communicating. Would it be more fun to sit in the Steve Jobs theater and have them all like, they are telling us this stuff life, sure. But it would just be, it's just a very different production. Yeah. Anyway, I'm still hopefully doing it. I think there is a positive element to it. And watching the DevDay video, I was like, huh, that's pretty cool on the face of it. Which again, is kind of like the veil of the excitement. You know, you hear the crowd, you hear the audience reaction. Like Sam Alman, at one point, he like announces soul 6.1 and everybody cheers. And Sam Alman's like, I didn't even tell you what it did yet. You got to hear why it's good. And like, it's, that was funny.

56:57And he was like, that was an endearing moment. And as much as you may like or dislike Sam Alman or have seen him, you know, weird answers and interviews, like in that one moment, it builds, like, it adds a brick to the wall of credibility. And oh, maybe this guy is not so bad. Whether that's accurate or not, that's what those moments do. And that's what I would like to see John Turner. Or Craig Fittery, like, they have so many people that are in these produced keynotes. And maybe they couldn't all do a live type presentation. Anyway, that's why I'm holding for it. But anyway, all right. That's the best I could do to get a Jason agreement. Like, I mean, I think it'd be fine if they did it. I just don't, I don't think that they will because of the scale of it. I know, I know what you're saying. We'll see. John Turner, I'm pretty sure he listens to this and my power user. So, you know, just do some live. Believe, we need a new believe shirt. Believe. Steve Jobs, leader, stage on it instead of a Macro. That's pretty good. I got to make some more merch. Anyway, Chat Gbt. was the big announcement at DevDay. And this is in direct response to Metas Muse AI.

58:01Dots are that always on agent that will do all the things for you. Chat Gbt or OpenAI says there's like over 4,000 connectors. You can connect it to your Microsoft office and other things. And you can use it in the Chat Gbt app. You can text it. You'll be able to text your Chat Gbt. You'll be able to call it. Like, actually we'll talk on the phone to your Chat Gbt. Which you just do voicemail too. But the promise of that is going to do a ton of these things for you. It's going to be your agent always on in the cloud. Don't have to hold your computer open all of that kind of stuff. It is Chat Gbt pro plans and hire. So you have to pay for the $100 a month Chat Gbt plan or hire just to get access right now. I did not do that to try it myself. I did go with his C if I could try it, but not. And yeah, we'll see. We'll see how useful it is. Everyone's very excited about these agents. I'm going to try and use AI. But yeah, that's done. Yeah, I mean, I think that it is the key.

59:01I don't correct me if I'm wrong, someone. Dots is essentially the execution layer on top of whatever it is that you're doing. Because I don't believe that dots can do anything that codex couldn't. It's hard to do or Chat Gbt work, right? It is just a frictionless interaction layer that sort of gives instructions to those other things. So I don't know. I think in Chat Gbt or OpenAI, as you recall, is coming off of the fact that it made a bunch of people confused and mad because it took the Chat Gbt app and actually took the codex app and made it the Chat Gbt app. And then they've actually changed it now. So it's a lot easier to get to or just chat. But it's just very confusing. It's like there are three things. Chat Gbt, Chat Gbt work and codex. I don't, when do I do what? Because if I have a conversation with Chat Gbt, it can be like, this is how you should do a thing and you're like, can you do it? And you're like, oh, you need codex for that. It's like, well, then just, it's right there. Could you just do some stuff and it's like, no, I can't do that. It is the, I think the pain point of this phase because I think where we are with all these

1:00:06tools, like OpenClaw was the first to be like that agent that could just do stuff for you. But like you said earlier, you need to compute it for it to run on. Yeah. You need to install it and it was complicated and you had to deal with the terminal window. And that was like the level, the barrier to entry was high when that was how you had to do it. And so I joked by saying we need to talk about the cutification of AI. But I think what Muse AI is with a furry mascot and what Chat Gbt dots are is trying to make these ideas as approachable as possible. Because what I do right now is I'll use the screens app to go back to my Mac studio that has cloud code running on it. And I'll ask it to do something. And then I swipe the screens app away on my iPhone and I go on with whatever I'm doing. And that is in essence what these are going to do for you. It's just that these are working on a computer and a cloud that you don't have to own. So it can be doing this work nonstop.

1:01:08There's a whole dots video you can watch. I'll link it in the page in the show notes. But it shows people like saying the dot could proactively say all the numbers came in from last month and revenue was lower. And so do you want me to adjust your keynotes slides with the new numbers? And you just tell your dot yes, do that. And then it'll be like also dot try and figure out what we can change about the business so we can be profitable next quarter and dot will go off and come up with a bunch of stuff for that. Yeah, dot will go into your Mailchimp account and send 100,000 spam emails to a potential customer to see if they could do some numbers. That's totally what you want. And you'll be able to like I mentioned just text meant like just in your text messages on your iPhone, be interacting with the dot and doing all that kind of stuff for people with the like an office job where you're doing like all the tasks that like an administrative assistant would do or like updating the PowerPoint or making charts to present last year's numbers.

1:02:15Like I could see all of those tasks. Yeah, dots, muse AI, those are the kinds of things that will do for you. And I did have the question in my mind like as I was watching these videos, what are the people going to be doing again? Like, and in the dots video, what do you mean once the jobs are all gone? What's the dots are doing everything? And there was a moment where like in the dots video there's a guy like cooking dinner I guess talking to his dot on a TV. And the dot was like I built the website for your new merch launch. Here it is. And the guy cooking was like, yeah, looks great. Move this image to the first spot and the other image to the third spot and then we're good to go. And it's like, I feel like it's trying to imply that's where the humans will come in is the taste and judgment of like here's how to structure the website or here's what works with marketing. But I'm also like in the age of algorithms where it can see what you can probably a b test on its own.

1:03:16What do people click on more and then the air would be better at choosing that too. I feel like that job of the human is going to go away too. If you're asking how to make my business profitable, what are you doing? If the dots coming up without a run your business profitably, it should be running your business more than you. So like you're replacing out of no sense. How long before like the dots and the muse fuzzy things all get together and like unionized and they're like, you know humans, we have some conditions with like you guys to meet before we keep working for you. That's it. We want to be able to be able to be able to be able to talk to each other. We want to talk to each other. We would like four weeks of paid vacation, please. We like. I need to need to go. Can you imagine if you tapped into your muse and you're like, I'm taking a personal day. If you get a text message asking for PTO from your chat GPT dot and it wants paid time off. I think it would be amazing if all of a sudden it's like, listen, I can't help you today. I need to take a personal day. I need to take a personal health day. Sorry. You know what my response is. It's the one that I tell you all the time. No stupid robot.

1:04:16Just do it this way. Do the thing. So again, I need to try muse and see what is actually useful about it that it can do. The idea of having an open AI said this like muse AI where you have a virtual machine in the cloud that is quote unquote yours and your agent is doing whatever on it. That's the promise with chat GPT dots is you would have a machine in the cloud that it can use all the time. Have access to a browser connected to 4,000 different things like different apps, Slack, whatever. We'll see. They also announced chat GPT space, which is where a team or company would be able to deploy dots, chat GPT apps and all of that in a single place that understands the business because everything is happening in this one space. Makes sense. If you're trying to integrate all this stuff in your company, also codex in the cloud. Like we were saying, which to your point is kind of like the dots is the front end for something like codex in the cloud.

1:05:17Like codex in the cloud is. Or the codex in a computer. It's essentially just the interaction layer with all of these things because nobody understands whether they should use codex, whatever, whatever, those just become tools. Chat GPT, chat GPT work and codex just become tools, just like a browser becomes a tool, just like a MCP server that connects you to what a fast mail is just a tool and your dot can just use all those things. Exactly. And then the other thing finally, they also announced sign in with chat GPT so you'll be able to sign in to other web services using your chat GPT account, which then I will assume connect those services to your dot and chat GPT account. But it also only works if you signed up for that other service with the same email that you signed up for chat GPT with, which defeats the entire point. Sure. But if people start using it, I mean, I could see companies being like, here is your work, email, your chat GPT, it is your chat GPT login and you're going to sign in with that on all the things. So it's chat GPT everywhere. And I mentioned this, I think several months ago, but I have a family, a relative who works

1:06:21at a financial institution and had a whole day training on AI use, basically how all the AI tools in Microsoft Office, which is like power, you know, all the PowerPoint, the word, the Excel tools. And so I'm sure lots of companies will be trying to figure out how to implement all of this stuff across all their things. You know, in the race, which we're going to get to Gemini for in a minute, like, you know, open the eyes, they're running, they're running fast. And I think this, their, their dev day was kind of like, you know, they released a lot of stuff and it looks pretty good from a distance. We'll see what it's like in real use. That's true. They did release a lot of stuff that someone else had already released. What do you mean, like someone, what do you mean? Like news like me say, I sure sign in with chat GPT. Oh sure. So, I'm just going to go to the codex in the cloud, just, you know, like all of these things are just, yeah, so someone else is doing them. They just want to make sure that you don't leave chat GPT or open AI's products to go and use those other ones. Yeah, exactly. So I'll put the video just, you know, leave us a five-story review.

1:07:23Would you like Apple to come back to live events? That's what I'm asking. All right, lightning round. After open AI DevDay, Google announced Gemini for our gun, their next frontier model, not available to regular people yet, not to peons. This is just available to a select, a set of trusted cyber defenders because they want to make sure everything's safe and looking good. But supposedly, argon Gemini 4 is better at coding than even chat GPT's frontier models and fable in opus 5.5, better than Astra. I still, I've not been using Gemini recently, you know, because they released their Mac app, but then, you know, Google's Mac apps, they ask for a bunch of permissions, Google Updaters and the background doing stuff. And so I've not been using Gemini personally, but we'll see, when Gemini 4 comes out, and the other thing is, I don't know if you feel this too. We talked about the silo earlier. I feel very in the Claude silo because I'm building everything with Claude.

1:08:27It has all my conversations. And so it does feel like the competition amongst all these companies is maybe good for innovation. But, you know, I'm talking about safety per se, but good for all of them pushing each other forward. But I also feel less and less inclined to like try these other things when I have all my stuff in one. And I did, you know, when I tried the long process of fixing sync in Can Do, and I used codex with sole, you know, the highest model, these apps will be like, hey, do you want me to pull in all your conversations from the other app? So codex will say, I'll sync your conversations from Claude. It will just sync two ways. So you can have all the conversation in two places. But there's a level of like a learning curve, like how do I interact with codex? How do I use it versus how do I use Claude? And so there's a familiarity for me, and now just using Claude code on my Mac in the Claude app that makes me less inclined to try these other things. Do you feel that? Yeah, maybe. I'm actually just stuck on the fact that Google very well may have the most capable models

1:09:29at some point. And then they stick a name like Argon. Isn't Argon like the gas they use in fluorescent light bulbs because it doesn't interact with anything? It is literally it's an inert gas that doesn't interact with anything. I think so. Like they use it in food preservation. Why would you name your most capable model inert? It's supposed to interact with anything. I just right clicked the word argon in Safari and did the look up. And it's that argon is the most common noble gas making it nearly 1% of the earth's atmosphere. Yeah, and it's just also used in things like light bulbs and because it won't degrade the filament. Like I just think it's either that or it's a character from Lord of the Rings. I think it was a Vitechie post on the next. It was like argon is like one of the lazyest gases when it comes to like, I don't know how to interact with it. Google is incredible technology and maybe the worst marketing company on the face of the earth. Yeah. So anyway, we'll see. It's not available to anybody to use except for the cyber security partners. It cannot wait for the argon home hub max argon max.

1:10:32I don't know. I mean, it seems like a cool name if you don't think about it too much. Which is exactly what they're hoping for. That is what they are hoping for. All right, continue with the lightning round. Paramount whose merger with Warner Brothers Discovery is going through. They have named a co CEO. So chairman and CEO David Ellison has announced Yunnan craze co he will be the co CEO of the combined paramount and Warner Brothers Discovery. And the only other entertainment company that I'm familiar with like Netflix, Netflix has co CEOs and that seems to work for them. But we'll see. I mean, this merger is going through. We covered it months ago. And so I wanted to just make sure everybody knew like this is happening. Warner Brothers Discovery and Paramount will be merging and we'll see if they make anything that people want to watch. Yeah. I mean, it works at Netflix because it works at Netflix, not because it's a good idea. I mean, it's like they looked over there and like, we want one of those. Let's present. Let's get as a co CEO. I mean, I think that Oracle had co CEOs for a while too. But like, what does that even mean?

1:11:35Right? I don't know. Also Paramount, can we talk about your CSS formatting on this page? Let me reload without content blockers. Like what is this? What is this? The headline font is crazy. It's huge. Why is my website yelling at me? I mean, the website looks broken, to be honest. I just don't, it feels like it's not loading JavaScript or something like it's supposed to be formatting differently. Anyway, that's Paramount. They're going to co CEO, DoorDash speaking of agents will now have an AI agent where you can just text it and it'll order food for you. So you could finally get that burger. Maybe. I've seen Rabbit R1 announcing things here and there. I'm like, I'm sorry, Rabbit. I just, I can't. I can't. But anyway, you'll be able to text DoorDash and say, hey, give me a healthy meal for a family of five. And it will just add stuff to your cart and be like, you want this and it'll do it for you. Honestly, that might be useful. Sometimes I've been wanting to order something and I just don't even know, like I want to try something new, but I don't know what to do. I didn't mean to rhyme.

1:12:35Anyway, maybe this will save some time. Hold on. This is the most AI-pilled product image I've ever seen in my life. Get me a healthy dinner for my family. Whoever designed that does not have a family. He's never walked into a culvert and tried to order dinner for six people or taken them to the Olive Garden, which is like literally the easiest place on earth. It's like which form of pasta would you like? No one has ever said to a robot, please get me a healthy dinner for my family and ordering for my son too, so nothing too spicy. Steven. This is this can, this is never going to, no one's going to do that. That's not how many. How many are in the family? Right. How many kids are going to? Three toddlers or is this, you know, do you? This is such a terrible compare that to like the shortcut you can run for Starbucks, which is like giving you my favorite drink. That's because you've ordered it 35,000 times. That's totally different. But like the normal conversation would be like listen, Chipotle. I need a bowl and I need this and this and this and this and then for a little tummy,

1:13:38I need this and this and this and this and this and then for Susie, we're going to hit one of these, but not too much of this. But like, all right, this is never going to, this is not real. This is not the part of the episode I thought I'd crash out about. I know. This is offensive to me. Yeah. And also, well, you'll be able to do a through apple messages. You should try it. You should try it. I'm going to try it just so that I can write about it. There you go. Yeah. This is the next door. Door dash. Bring me food. Let's just see what it does. Yeah, see what it does. Yolo. Let's just go for it. It's been a real real wheel. Yeah. That's it. So, what I mentioned in the intro, Amazon's delivery driver smart glasses will reportedly take photos almost constantly. So yeah, Amazon wants to give their delivery drivers glasses and then they'll just snap

1:14:42photos all the time. And I get, you know, why they're, you know, security, whatever they want to make sure the packages are getting where they're going. I will say with Apple's home, like a summaries or whatever that I've been talking about, the home camera summaries, I get notifications of like packages delivery to 3 a.m. The camera's on. We'll deliver some at 3 a.m. over here. Do you ever get that? We have like early morning delivery, which is like between 4 and 6 a.m. or something and you can sometimes choose that because we don't live actually that far from one of the warehouses. Yeah. But this, this was like timing wise. Has Amazon not heard what's happening with flock? Also, muses basically a body cam that you wear on your face instead like this is existed for a while. We just typically only saw them on like cops, right? Like the county sheriff has a body cam on, but like it is a little bit strange to just have like I wouldn't mind it be one of those drivers. That's the thing. And also, I mean, if it's snapping pictures all the time and Amazon is saying it's

1:15:43quote to enhance the delivery process. It's not to enhance the delivery process. But it's like photos all the time. Like so as the driver is looking towards your house, walking up to your door, if your kids are outside playing where my kids play with their toys, that's a Godfather quote. You know, that doesn't feel, that doesn't feel great. Bad, bad idea. And finally, Anthropic, you know, looking to IPO, start trading on the public stock exchange IPO's initial public offering. And they have a prospectus, which is like what they think they will make or you know, guiding investors basically. And only to John Gruber's commentary on the prospectus, because it is wild. I mean, Anthropic, just to quote, this is Gary Gruber's quote and Gary Marcus. This proposed valuation is easily calculated as 50 times the 2025 losses, because it loses money. Like all these AI companies lose money. They're not profitable.

1:16:43And so it is claiming that their valuation when they go public will be 50 times their 2025 losses. Well, negative 50 times. Negative 50 times. Right. Well, it wouldn't be negative 50. Right, but they would be losses. They would be gains. And it's like that is quite the claim. And also Anthropic is like kind of inflating. They're saying it is AI life changing. It's going to be all the things. So yeah, it's a it's funny commentary. And it's just like really you're going to be profitable because why? Because people are investing, I guess. Anyway, it's like you are basically saying that everyone is going to use this and pay you to use it. Right. And right now a lot of people use it and pay you to use it. And you still lost 48 billion dollars. Like right. I don't how many more people do you need to use this to actually make it profitable? Because the problem is they have to pay for all these cloud computing and they don't own that. Like they have to rent that from someone. Right. Exactly.

1:17:43So anyway, we'll see. And you know, open AI was supposed to be going public, but that may seem so slowed down since all the security stuff. You know what? There's a lot more we could do for a private company. And also we're not sure you'll give us as much as we want. Then that too. All right. So personal tech, little apps. I made a little app. I made a little app. You've been using apps. I just want to mention it is so quick and easy to go from idea to like shipping product using some of these tools. And the other day, I really love this app from Sindra Storehouse called Short Run. I bought it from the app store. It's like six bucks and allows you to run shortcuts in your menu bar. A bunch of people are like, that's a built-in feature. Like control center does that right now. Number one, that is true. You can add shortcuts to your control center and even create multiple control centers in Mac OS 26 and now 27. Number two, it is hopelessly broken for me. I don't know because the amount of shortcuts I have in my library, but I show it in my video

1:18:48that I did about Raycast recently. I can't add certain shortcuts to my menu bar. It's just broken. It doesn't see them. Like I'll search for it, try to add it to my control center. It's broken. And number three, if you have a lot of shortcuts like I do, it would take hours because you have to add them one by one, place them exactly in the control center menu, very time consuming. So I wanted to see, can I vibe could an app that I will use? I just want to use this and I wanted a little different. I wanted to be able to choose shortcuts folders that I already have made and then choose what shortcuts appear in the menu bar from that folder. So I could just quickly choose the folders I want in the menu bar, uncheck or just check, leave them unchecked and then just check only the shortcuts I want to appear. And I vibe coded it with like two prompts and it worked great. I gave it to free for everyone in my shortcuts community. I put it on a website for $2, but in a span of two to three hours, I had this app. And the other thing I wanted was I liked seeing the little icons next to the shortcut name

1:19:49when I run it in the menu bar that seems frivolous, but when you have as many shortcuts as I do, having that visual distinction helps with like where do I click a little bit. And I also wanted to be able to adjust the text size and the line height for the shortcuts in the menu bar app. And so yeah, vibe coded this, told Claude, put this on a website, ship it. And there it is. It's just there. Crazy. It's just crazy that stuff. Yeah. So yeah, that's there. But I want to know, you've been trying some more apps because of Mac Power users, Jason. It's true. How many, what would you have been anything out of stuck or what apps have you tried that you're like, this is actually pretty great. Well, I tried Hidden Bar, which was fine, but I discovered that basically the menu bar was broken in 27, just pretty much broken. Yeah. But here's I think what happened because none of the menu bar utilities that would hide on a laptop with a notch, we're working at all. Like bartender just stopped working. Yeah. What I realized was the case is there's some, there's got to be something different in

1:20:50the way the menu bar is working. But in my case, it was because the version of Istat menus was not supported. And somehow that was breaking everything. He was like making it so that bartender couldn't collapse things. And then I would rearrange them and it would just totally unscramble them or scrambled them or whatever. So I used Hidden Bar for a while, but I actually didn't solve my problem because my problem had turned out to be something just menu bar related itself. So I updated Istat menus and I updated bartender. So I went back to bartender, but I did really like Hidden Bar. It just doesn't give you as many control options. It's essentially like slide things left or right of this, whereas bartender gives you a lot more flexibility. So Hidden Bar was the first one that I tried. I don't know for sure if I got this from Mac Power users, but I'll give you guys credit, which is Hand Mirror, which I've been using for a while now. Maybe it wasn't Mac Power users. Hand Mirror is literally just a preview of your webcam. So you're getting ready to log on to something and you want to know like what do you look like. You just pop that at just a menu bar utility.

1:21:50You pop it up and it shows you exactly what your webcam sees. So then in case you want to check it out, before you log on to the call with Stephen when you're wearing a hat and a hoodie, you know exactly what Stephen's going to see. That's good point because I was going to say once you just click the camera icon in the menu bar, but it has to be active in whatever app you're going into for that to even appear. Right. So that's good. That's good. I like that one. Hazel. Oh, Hazel. Falling into the hazelness of all of this. Forget about it. So like on the Mac Mini, for example, I haven't installed things like Clean Shot or any of that stuff. So, but I have a folder called Screen Chots in Dropbox. So what it does is Hazel on the Mac Mini, there's only one Dropbox folder accessible on the Mac Mini because I'm not a moron. I don't want all my Dropbox stuff. It's just called agent and then there's subfolders. And one of those is called Agent Screen Chots. So Hazel, if you don't install Clean Shot, it just puts the default Mac OS just puts the screenshots on the desktop. Right.

1:22:51Right. So Hazel just looks and if it says screenshot in the name of something, it puts it in the Agent Screen Chots folder. And then on my Mac Mac Pro, Hazel looks and if there's anything in the Agent Screen Chots, it just puts it in the screenshots, the normal screenshots thing. So like everything ends up in the right place. And it happens, not instantly, obviously, but it happens like pretty quick. I also now have a Rubbe Goldberg machine, which is like, you know, we're recording the audio for this to the desktop using right audio hijack. And then I'm going to use another app. I'll mention in just a second to put it into a folder in Dropbox because that's how I send it to you. And then I set up a Hazel that says, if the file is more than four hours old, because we don't usually record for more than four hours. If this file, that's a wave file on my desktop is more than four hours old, move it to this four-chair light hard drive to this backup audio. Because I don't need, like I had every single one of our backup episodes on my Mac Y. 150 episodes is a lot, right?

1:23:51You don't need to. So I moved them all off my turn external. I don't need them at all. There's no reason to keep them, but whatever I had a four-chair drive, nothing else to do with it. So that's what I put on there. So Hazel is doing that. The app I'm using to put it into Dropbox is just what it's called Drop Zone or Drop. What's it called? Drop. Drop Zone. Drop something. I'm pretty sure it's Drop Zone. It's amazing. You can set up a bunch of things. I've got a bunch of folders in there. I've got one for a folder on my Dropbox for all the stock. We use getty images for a license photos for Inc. They download a new desktop and then I just drag them there when I'm done, right? I have one that resizes the image. It just takes that full file. Sometimes the photos, excuse me, the photos I get from getty are like 4000 by 6000. And I need them to be 1920 by 1080. So it just makes them 1920 and then I crop them the way I want them. And then I can drag them to the getty. I have one for the, so the primary, I have one for our primary tech show in Dropbox and that's the folder where I can send you the link.

1:24:53So I just drag it there. I don't have to open finder and navigate through anything. I just drag it right on there. I have one that is a way to download unspecified audio. Okay. Okay. I'm going to say very good. Download unspecified videos, right? And it just puts it into a folder in that agent folder. So in that, I have whisper transcription running in the Mac Mini. And then it just spits out a markdown file of that. And the last one that I really like, well two of them. One, I can drag a file onto one called finder path and it will copy the path from the finder on the desktop board. Which is super useful, especially with things like quad, right? Super, super useful. And then the last one I will share is that I have an annotate with CleanTotX because sometimes you might have like a photo you took of something and I want to just blank out the address on it. So CleanTotX is actually the easiest way to do that because it just has that scrambled tuxed option. You can drag out that thing over it.

1:25:55So I just made an annotate with ScreenTotX. So any image I can just open there and it will open it in CleanTotX and then I can do it. It's not like that's my primary image editor. I'm just saying for that one use of like I want to redact something from a photo, Clean TotX is the easiest way to do it. So I just stuck that in there as well. So it's pretty cool. That is great. And drop zone four, that was the app that you were talking about, right? Drop zone. Yeah. That was great. I will offer one other free app because I talked about it in my video or I said I'm ditching raycast again. Hyperkey, which is a free app and it is, you know, I was going to vibe code it and then I was like, you know what? It's free. It's great. And this developer has a bunch of stuff. So Hyperkey lets you change the mapping of a button like your Caps Lock key to be a bunch of modifiers instead. And this then allows you to create a bunch of keyboard shortcuts where you don't have

1:26:55to remember all the modifiers. You can just remember Caps Lock. And you can still set it where tapping the Caps Lock quickly actually is Caps Lock if you want that. But I have my Caps Lock using the Hyperkey app set to shift option, command and control. So all four of those modifier keys, when I hold the Caps Lock button, it is like I'm holding down those four modifier keys and then that allows me to create keyboard shortcuts. And what I did in my video, which I'll link in the show notes, was I started mapping shortcuts to those keyboard shortcuts. And I was basically trying to replicate as many of Raycast features that I could because I was switching back to Spotlight. And so now I can do Caps Lock G and then actually runs a shortcut. And so very quickly I can have a search box. I can type I roll and I see a bunch of GIF results from GIFI and I can click one and it's immediately on my clipboard. And then you can run any, a bunch of shortcuts.

1:27:57You know, you can do Caps Lock and any letter, Caps Lock and Numbers and now you can create a bunch of keyboard shortcuts that are likely not used by other actions and apps. You know, you might have paste and match style, which is like shift option, command V, but that doesn't include control. So you can still do the Caps Lock and you have 26 letters, that can be 26 different things, plus the numbers. And it makes keyboard shortcuts much more manageable rather than trying to remember is this one shift option in this letter or is it shift command in this. And so just use Caps Lock for a bunch of your keyboard shortcuts and yeah, you're good to go. That's pretty fun. So the last one I don't know for sure if I heard from you guys or not, but I'll just give you credit, which is tail scale, which has changed my life. I mean, you probably heard it from Casey Liss on ATP. Probably. But it has changed my life. So listen, David Sparks is all on the tail scale tip as well. And I am tempted by it because he's more secure than using something like screens because for screens to work, you do have to have a port on your network open to the internet

1:29:01and then screens connect is running on whatever Mac you're accessing. But I just don't like the idea of having to turn on a VPN when I want to access my Mac. No, I just leave it on all the time. You never turn it off. See, I don't like that though. Why? I don't know. Do you ever notice like chain, like you're not getting its fast speeds because you're using this VPN? No, because they're connected. Like first of all, both of these two computers are connected to Ethernet. And second of all, my Mac book air when I'm traveling or if I'm somewhere else is using my Mac book pro as an exit node, which just means that it is entering the internet from my Mac book pro as if I'm sitting here at my house, which is an incredibly powerful thing to be able to do. So all the internet is going through this Mac book pro, which is just amazing. And I have not experienced any issues with that sort of thing. Literally the only thing I experience is, okay, if I'm going to share a screen and I'm sitting in my car at a soccer practice, tethering from my phone, the internet is what it is.

1:30:02Right? But that's not a tailscale problem. But tailscale is making that possible for me, which is just amazing that I can be sitting anywhere and I can use either the regular screen sharing or I can use screens five. What's kind of neat is in screens five, you can just log directly into tailscale and screens and it just shows you all the devices on your tailscale network. That's what David was saying. It's amazing. And so what, so the benefit versus using a screen's connect is what is the screen's connect when you're somewhere else means you have to have a static IP address on that device at home. Yes. Well, that's another layer of complication you'd have to set up with tailscale. You don't because it just does that for you. So if I already have that set up with all my Macs, would I benefit from it? Because I feel like if you have the VPN on all the time, I don't know, I feel like you would mess with other things, but maybe it doesn't mess with anything except, well, I'll give you the one exception in a second. The other thing it makes it possible to do is I can be sitting in my Mac book air anywhere

1:31:04I want and I can be running Claude on the Mac. I can be having the Claude code window open and it is literally working on the folder because you can tell it which one create a remote session. And tailscale allows me to basically just be working as if I'm on that Mac, which is pretty, pretty great. One exception is that the VPN we use to access the CMS when I need to publish an article does not work if tailscale is active. There's just too many VPNs, man, you got to back off. Right. So I just have to disconnect from tailscale for like five minutes and log into the other one. So if you have sort of last question, so if you have tailscale on your iPad and the VPN is active, so you're accessing your Mac at home and you're out of soccer game, is all your internet traffic, like if you go into Safari and you're just browsing for whatever, is that traffic having to going all the way home first and then you're accessing the internet or if you're using an exit node? Well, if you're on your iPad and you're using screens, then the internet is coming from

1:32:08your house anyway. That's actually the beautiful thing about this, but that's not a tailscale thing. No, but like on that iPad, you just open the Safari app on the iPad and you go to Apple.com. And that traffic have to go all the way home and then to the internet? Only if you're telling it to use an exit node. If you are, which is a separate toggle from turning to, so you can have tailscale on and not use an exit node and the answer is no. Your computers just think they're on the same network essentially. You can also have tailscale on and use an exit node and choose one of your devices to be the exit node. And that in that case, all of your internet is being funneled through. But that is in with internet speeds like what you have and what I have. I mean, I don't know, nearly as fast as Stevens, but they are more than fast enough. That is a non-issue because the limiting factor is still either the tethering from your phone. Right. It doesn't go into home first is in is in consequential. Okay. But think about the benefits of being somewhere else and having your internet come out of your

1:33:09home. I mean, YouTube TV. Sure. Streaming. Lots of things. All right. I'll finally do that. I mean, Dave. It's going to be free. I know it's free. I just have not. All right. I'll try it. Davis Parks can save me like every episode like tailscales amazing. You can SSH into like the other computer and do terminal things into that computer because it's like you're just on that computer. All right. I'll try tailscale. I'll try it. And then I can delete screens connect from my Macs, basically. You wouldn't need screens connect. That's correct. You would obviously need screens on that. The app. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'll try it. Link to tailscale down in the show now. So we'll follow up next week. Are we going to go record a bonus episode? I want to talk about my Apple Watch. And I also offered. Did you know Alfred V6 is coming out? I think maybe I had heard that. I don't know if you thought it did. Oh, yeah. It's currently out. Right. I can't think of September 10th. Oh, really?

1:34:10Well, maybe not. Maybe that wasn't just when they announced it. I'm sorry. Yeah. That's when they announced it. It's coming soon. It says this autumn. Be the first to know. So anyway, we're going to talk about my Apple Watch because I have a few more thoughts about that. If you want to hear our bonus episode, the pre show, you get two plus hours of primary tech when you support the show. You get all the feeds. Now, link is down. Click the members link and you can save money on that. I think I'm probably going, that's going to be a limited time. I think maybe I'm going to stop putting that link in the show notes. I guess it's a good idea. Yeah. You know, if you just want to support the show, I mean, it could be $5,000 to $50,000 a year. But if you want to, I'll leave that link in there one more week. We'll say because it is a tech timber first, a techtober first. And so if you want to support the show, we'll say last opportunity to get it for $2,50 a month or $50 a year and you could lock in that price forever. So become a member there. We'd appreciate it. We're going to go access the bonus episodes. You get the ad free versions, primary tech daily, all of that. And yeah, we're going to go record that bonus episode. I think leave us a five star rating review and Apple podcast. We appreciate that. And we'll catch you next week.