AI Government Website Hack; Smart Fridge Spoils Food; McDonald's Using AI Pricing

0:00Fall never arrives all at once. Verse the air, then the light, and slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf, because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Fall your way at Ross. At ZockDock, we know you care about your health. You wouldn't do that early morning cardio if you didn't. So the fact that your annual physical is overdue just shows how hard it can be to get seen by a doctor. Sorry, that doctor's not a network. Press one for more options. You've reached us outside your whole business hours. The next availability is in three months. But ZockDock makes finding the right doctor easy. Download the app and search by specialty, insurance, and availability. Read real patient reviews. Then book instantly. ZockDock. Ready to be seen?

1:03Brilliant guests, better conversations, and zero pretension. The last show with David Cooper. All right, a Canadian government website was recently hacked, but not by some nefarious person typing on their keyboard. No, it was an AI agent. At least that's according to researchers. Let's discuss this and other stories from the technology sector. After all, it is time for technology time with Karmie Levy, a tech analyst. Karmie, as ever, welcome to the show. Great to be back with you, David. Thanks. Happy Friday and happy October. Oh my God. I know. Does the first of the month stress you out? It always stresses me out. Yeah, a little bit. I don't like change. I wish I could slow time down. And unfortunately, sometimes the beginning of the month kind of reminds me that I have no control over either. It's the combination of all the payments being due, and the fact that I never got what I wanted to achieve done in the previous month. Yeah. And you have to kind of push everything over on your calendar into the next one.

2:05And you keep doing it month after month now in bed now. Now I'm sharing my pathos with everyone, but yeah, that's the life I lead. It feels like the last time I had you on to talk about how AI agents were doing autonomous hacking. It was one AI agent hacking another AI company's website, which I know is like, it's a big story, but what does it mean for me? But now when we hear of an AI agent hacking or at least trying to hack a government website, that's when you know what starts to get real. What is this story? Yeah, I mean, we all knew that when we heard about open AI's internal tests, we were resulting in an AI agent escaping containment and attacking the hugging face. We knew that would be the start of something. And that's what's been going on since the summer, kind of one headline after another of agents doing things that they're not supposed to be doing. And now the latest is kind of disturbing. It's an AI research group translucent. They issued a report this week showing that a Canadian government website library in

3:05archives Canada was targeted 899 times by an AI agent looking for information on, of all things, divorce in Canada, a cent over a century ago. And so, okay, so if you got divorced in Canada a century ago, you have to worry right now. Exactly. That's right. You better keep it around for the hills. And so, and this is actually, we often see AI agents going after obscure data sources because they're not polluted by other activity. And that's sort of part of their, part of their design. And so, this was not a human conducting a cyber attack. This was an AI agent kind of, you know, scanning the perimeter, looking for areas of vulnerability, submitting hundreds, in this case, hundreds of requests, looking for data, trying to gain access to it. Now, the good news is is that no, there was no compromise. There was no breach that didn't actually break in. But the attempt was made and it was automated. And so, the fact that we're seeing AI agents kind of raise their tempo, getting into

4:05more trouble, reaching out to more targets, not going after government websites, is it's not that the sky is falling, but it is concerning. And it sort of shows that this AI agent thing is something we need to start paying attention to because next time it isn't going to be a benign event, next time there will be damage, next time there will be some kind of data access, they will break in, or in the hands of a cyber criminal, a level of doctor, that things will happen. So either we figure it out now, or, you know, we, we have a bad day at some point in future. Which I think that second case is what's going to happen. Have fun with me for a second here. Why would an AI agent want divorce records from 1905 to 1911? Anyone who got divorced in that period is likely dead today, unless they're like 150 years old or something. What possible use for this data could an AI agent have? Is it training like at a family law firm? What was it doing? It's because this is data that is sitting in a dusty corner gathering dust.

5:09No one else is accessing it. So if you're an AI agent and you're looking for a quiet spot on the internet to engage with where no one's going to see you and you want to remain hidden, that's the perfect dataset to go after. And that's often the case. For example, when open AI was investigating the hugging face incident, they discovered that a swarm of AI agents had actually taken over an obscure German wiki site. And they were posting on that site as, you know, as individuals and sharing information on other hacks. And the reason they weren't discovered for months was because nobody else was using that site. So that seems to be a common behavior among AI agents. Find a quiet spot where nobody will notice you and then do your thing. That I guess makes sense. And also government websites for records from 120 years ago are probably not set up that thoughtfully. And so if you're kind of like figuring out how to hack government websites, maybe that's a good training ground. No one's going to look at it. No one's going to suspect that's where you're training your hack.

6:09And then you unleash it on like an archive site that contains relevant data. Yeah. You know, I'm just speculating here, but that could possibly be one reason. No, I think that's incredibly plausible. What we're seeing now are a proofs of concept. We're seeing AI agents acting in a way where they are identifying best practices, figuring out what to target, how to target, how to take advantage of weaknesses that they discover. And as it turns out, the best way to do that is to do it in a quiet part of the internet where there isn't any kind of either human or automated oversight, which gives you the time to do what you need to do to figure out what those best practices are. For me, our next story here, I always trash smart home devices that have no business being smart. Like, I don't need a smart toaster. I don't need a smart microwave. I don't need a smart refrigerator. Okay, I just want a dumb fridge that keeps my stuff cold. I don't need like a notice of the weather on a panel. Okay, I got my phone for that. And that's enough. But people buy these things and I'm here criticizing them and it looks like I have good reason

7:14to do so because a certain Samsung smart fridge got a software update on it. They call them firmware updates and it bricked the fridge, which is nerdspeak for it, broke the fridge. Can you imagine your smart fridge connected to the internet gets a software update and then it spoils all your food? Yeah, and I think that's the maddening thing. These are fridges that have these large screens on the front. They're connected. They're powered by AI. And maybe showing you ads? Like, I don't need to see ads on my fridge. They actually are. They started showing ads earlier this year, much to my consternation. And so not only did the screen die because of the bots firmware update, but they actually they powered off. And so thousands of this happened in Korea, thousands of Koreans who were preparing for the Chuseok holiday, which is a major Korean holiday celebrating the autumn harvest, having people over cooking whatever they wake up in the morning to find their fridges dead and all of their food is ruined. It's like having a turkey in the fridge for Thanksgiving and then it spoils because your

8:16fridge is too dumb to receive an update. Yeah, just because your fridge can be smart doesn't mean it should be smart and this case should serve as an example to all stick with dumb appliances. Hey, listen up. I want to talk about something. The phone rings. It's your bank or you think it is big mistake. That wasn't your bank. It was a scammer that bought your info from a data broker. There are hundreds of them that collect your information and sell it to scammers. That's why I use incogni. It's an online service that sends removal requests to more than 420 data brokers and people's search sites. Incogni gets it done and then watches to make sure they don't add you back in. Now incogni's claims are independently verified by Deloitte, the first data removal service to do that. You can't stop scammers from calling, but you can make it a lot harder for them. Incogni's already removed my info from 265 databases. Family plans cover up to 5 people. Now if you go to incogni.com slash Cooper, you can get 60% off.

9:19That's I-N-C-O-G-N-I dot com slash Cooper. The less they know, the less they can use against you. Incogni dot com slash Cooper. At Zockdock, we know you care about your health. You wouldn't do that early morning cardio if you didn't. So the fact that your annual physical is overdue just shows how hard it can be to get seen by a doctor. Sorry, that doctor's not a network. Press one for more options. You've reached us outside for whole business hours. The next availability is in three months. But Zockdock makes finding the right doctor easy. Download the app and search by specialty, insurance, and availability. Read real patient reviews. Then book instantly. Zockdock. Ready to be seen. All these companies, when they price their goods dynamically, they try to make it seem like it's this good thing. After all, dynamic. It sounds like an exciting word. I call it sucker pricing. And it's basically charging you what they think you will pay at any given time. It's happening to delivery apps. It certainly happens on rideshare apps. But it looks like this technology has come to McDonald's.

10:21Let's talk this and other stories from the technology sector here with Carmie Levy, a tech analyst. Because it is time for technology time. Carmie, welcome back to the show. Good to be back. Yeah. McDonald's often, this makes me less likely to eat it. Reuters did a deep dive on reports from McDonald's franchise holders that headquarters is pushing them to use algorithmic tools, particularly a portal, an AI portal that estimates the customer's willingness to pay at each location using algorithms. And so, yeah, you might pay 20% more at a McDonald's just a few miles or kilometers away. Because the software based on a whole bunch of inputs says that that's the case. McDonald's denies it. McDonald's says Reuters is being opportunistic. They're calling it speculative and uninformed. That it's just one tool that they make available to their restaurant owners. It's not a mandate. They're not ordering them. But we know where the industry is going. And we know that there's constant pressure to maximize revenue per visitor and technology

11:27makes that happen. I mean, McDonald's headquarters really does pressure its franchises to conform to a lot. They give them very little options around what machinery they can buy, what the menu items are. But then they're like, oh, it's your choice. It's your franchise. But they do use their kind of like strength as such a prominent franchiser to kind of force it would seem. I'll just use the word allegedly because I don't want them to sue me. But I mean, we've seen it with ice cream machines. There's very little option for McDonald's to buy ice cream equipment. And then they buy the equipment that historically was always down. And that's why ice cream was never available. It's the same thing here. They might say it's a price tool that's available to their franchisees. But are they kind of like strongly suggesting they use it? Probably. I think they are. Because I mean, the data does suggest that where this is used price prices go up. And of course, if you are McDonald's and your entire metric is based on increasing per-store sales over time, this is how you do it. This squeeze more out of people when they walk through the door or when they order online.

12:29And if you can identify areas that might pay more than others, why wouldn't you do that from a strictly pragmatic economic perspective, bottom line perspective, it kind of makes sense from a consumer perspective, it feels like they're ripping us all off. This kind of like we charge you what you're willing to pay vibes that we see in rot. Like I always, when I'm out with my girlfriend, we open up lift, we open up Uber, we open up the local taxi app. And we compare our prices and they're never the same. Hers is either lower or mine's lower. These companies are trying to charge us what they think we will pay rather than like a fair price that everyone has to pay. And I envision unless regulators do something like you walk into the drug store, you walk into the super store and the price below your, you know, box a cereal is an LED screen and dynamically updates based on the time of day or even that you're looking at it. I see a future where pricing is not this kind of fair notion where everybody pays the same thing. Ironically, this is how pricing used to work hundreds of years ago.

13:31Like you go into the bizarre or the market and then you'd haggle. Yeah. But I prefer the fair model where we all pay the same three bucks for the same thing. But at least when I'm handling one on one with a shop owner, right, it's, I know the rules, the owner knows the rules and we're kind of engaging, you know, face to face. Sure. And the consumer doesn't really see the process. It's a black box. And so it's not a fair fight. You're right. Consumer doesn't know what, what data is being used to jack that price up and they're being forced to pay it or they just walk out. You're right. Like if a retailer named after a major rainforest in South America charges me one thing. I can't haggle for toilet paper. Historically, you could haggle. I just mean the notion that a fixed listed prices. Yeah. That's a relatively new thing in humanity. It's only like what 80, 90, 100 years old or maybe slightly more. I don't know my history of pricing, but it is in the last century plus. Yeah. Yeah. I secretly do like McDonald's, but I try not to eat it more than once a quarter because it's like, you know, not, I don't feel that healthy after I have a big Mac.

14:33Yeah. It's not exactly health food. Although I find it interesting Walmart was kind of a target of accusations that it was going to be rolling out. Search pricing or dynamic pricing because they've been replacing the shelf labels that have normally been printed and stuck on with digital displays. And those are networked. And so the company was accused of sort of that was the first step in moving toward dynamic pricing. They actually issued a statement last week saying that that's not their intent that they have no intention, no plan of introducing it anytime soon. Doesn't mean they won't at some point. Doesn't mean that there won't be some other sort of technological trick being used to make us pay more, but at least for now Walmart is denying just like McDonald's that that's their plan. So next week I will be traveling to Toronto. And when I return home to the United States, I will be of course crossing the border. Although I think it's like a pre-clearance where you clear US customs in the airport from which you leave. But there's a new court ruling in the US whereby the right for border officials to search

15:37your phone was affirmed. I always just assume they could search my phone. You know, I hopefully I got nothing on there. I'm pretty confident I got nothing on there other than awkward test messages between me and my girlfriend where we use our pet name for our cat. I'd be just more embarrassed sitting there if they were going through my text like you said that. Not like I committed a crime, but yeah, this court ruling basically affirms their right to search your phone. And so I guess people just need to be aware that when you cross a border, you got to worry about officials going through your phone and you don't have the right to say no basically. Yeah, so I mean, this all started a individual by the name of Chinwendo, Ilyseegway, a permanent resident of the US. They were caught. They were flying through JFK in New York and their cell phone was searched and they challenged that. And the customs border patrol, they took the phone and it was called an advanced search. So basic search is just when you just kind of, you know, you unlock it and the border officer just kind of looks at your apps, looks at your messages, laughs at you and then

16:39hands it back. Whereas an advanced search is they actually plug it in and do a major download and then they can do a deep dive on what's on the device, all the apps, all of your data, who you're connected to, all that. And so the individual challenged it and it went to court. It was the US court of appeals for the second circuit, which ultimately ruled, well, no, sorry, there doesn't need to be a reasonable suspicion of a violation of law or national security concern. In fact, the bar is much lower because of this verdict. In fact, all they need to do is just, you know, think that they want to look at your phone and you've got to hand it over and they have to be allowed to plug it in, which means when we cross the border now, we have to think, is there anything on my device that I don't want to be searched? Should I be reducing my digital footprint? Should I be removing data? Should I be removing apps that I don't want them to access? Maybe do that and then reinstall them after you get across the border. Although there was a recent case where a guy had a piece of software on his phone where

17:40if you enter the wrong code, you rent to enter the wrong unlock code, the phone automatically wipes. It's like sketchy hacker security software. I think it's called graphene OS and this guy was at an airport in the US and the officials wanted to search his phone. He gave them the phony password, his phone wiped before their very eyes and they charged him with a crime. I believe it was a felony, a serious crime. So you've got to be careful. If you've got private stuff on your phone that you don't want border officials to see, maybe leave your phone at home or maybe you don't cross the border. Or get a burner, right? So that you're at least, you can at least use something while you're awake because we still need phones to move through an airport, right? So the prospect of traveling without technology, it's 2026, that's just not happening. But certainly with your phone that you certainly don't want to fall into the hands of a federal agency that may not necessarily care about your privacy, may use your data in ways that you can control, maybe just get a burner phone when you travel. I'm just looking forward to the day where they search mine and they see an endless list

18:43of cat gifts that I send back and forth from my girlfriend. Yeah, I'm hoping my border patrol officer likes miniature schnauzers because I've got lots of stories online. Yeah, I'm just like, if they search my phone, I won't be able to keep a straight face because of the ridiculous text messages that I send my friends. You know, I'm not so worried about crimes. I'm just worried about being embarrassed. Like when you're in your bedroom with your wife and you talk in ridiculous couples language, I'm like, I don't want these officials to see that. That's right, exactly. Or, you know, maybe it'll bring up some joy. I'd like to think that border agents need joy as well. All right, Karmie. Well, thanks for being on the show. I appreciate it. Thanks so much, David. Great thing with you. Karmie Levy is a tech analyst. Nicky Glazer, this stunning tour.

19:45The thoughts of death, I don't like to dwell on them for longer than like 10 or 15 hours a day. So, November 19th, Yama Vaughe Theater. No wonder women rushed to have kids were being trained for it since we were kids. They're like, here's a baby doll. There's an easy big oven. I got one of those. I stuck my head in it. I was like, I want out of this narrative. Tickets on sale now at Yama Vaughe Theater.com. Don't miss Nicky Glazer. Yama Vaughe Theater.