#795: Tokenization Unlocks $900 Trillion in Wealth with Jordi Visser

0:00You've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free. If you talk about a Fed just gone nuts, all the central banks going nuts. So it's all acting like safe heathen. I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. And the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor. I mean, that's part of the vote case for Bitcoin. If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. Yeah, no, another. I'm not sure if you saw the Satrini post this morning, but it was somebody using Muse. And they were on a Delta flight that got canceled on the tarmac and immediately went rebook this flight. And on top of that go find how I can get reimbursed for this flight that just got canceled with a minute. See at a $250 credit. And this Satrini post was like number one, you're insane to think that this is a bubble.

1:00And this is going nowhere. Maybe there are bubbly parts, but there is true utility here to say there's no use case is completely assinine. The number two. Like all those pennies that consumers have left on the ground with like $250 credit. They're about to get picked up by the agents and airlines being a perfect example. What happens when people start efficiently using their miles and taking advantage of the refunds they can get? This is the beginning of the deflationary pressure on everything that we've talked about. You know that we've as people realize that AI is deflationary to get deflationary for the service side, you need AI agents. Because the agents make decisions based on efficiency. And the use of it is just, I mean that description of what Satrini did. You have to think about all the frustrating times you've had waiting to then rebook something. You get in a line when you get off the plane and how long the line is and everyone's trying to get on one. And then you're trying to get a refund and you're trying to rebook things.

2:00All of this stuff will be handled. The frustrating part will be handled by agents and that's already happening. And it's happening now. So whether it's metamuse or whether it's instinct day, I, there's a reason why these things are having an impact now on the market. Yeah, well, I was telling it, Muse first spent this morning just to check it out, try to book Amtrak Amtrak's a bot. No, but point being, it feels like the first, like I said, into my wife after playing with it for 10 minutes. It's like, okay, this is, I don't have to set up a Hermes agent for you. Like this is, this is the agent that you can use to coordinate our calendars, the boys sports schedule, all that, like download it. Play with it today. That's the reason why this is now entered a realm for me of time. Any speaking engagement I'm doing now, it all gets back to time. You have to think about OpenClaw, which is a February thing in terms of like adoption.

3:02Then you get into Hermes, then you get into Rockbot, then you get into well, AstronClaw had can already do this. And we're going to make it easier and we're going to embed all this into one. So if you use Rockbot, it's a completely different situation using multiple agents to kind of run around and do task for you. So it's more like an autonomous workforce with Muse and with with Instinct AI and a lot of the other private ones. Now you're getting into the what we expected from Siri and what we expected from Alexa. But again, it's the fact that we're talking about something that is now seven months. So what has happened is the compression of time is happening through the model releases and through the advancements. The Navier Stokes problem, the agents form fears over, you know, hacking. These are all indications that were, you know, as I say repeatedly now, page 71 of situational awareness with Leopold shows where everything starts to speed up so fast that humans can't comprehend the change.

4:04And they can't keep up with it. Well, if we can't keep up with it and we're starting to get into the transaction phase. The Swift system and everything that was built for humans will not work with the agents and they're going to start demanding faster rails. Yeah. Now this morning again, the the problem with the M track, you were describing some monopoly and we'll move but the airlines have moved but imagine when I can load it up with a Bitcoin wallet. Like you were going into your boxy of Bitcoin or is he the programmable money? Then you have the incumbents. I'm a Bitcoiner. And the beauty about the programmable part is like, why would you be coin is my currency the native digital currency? I don't want to touch anything else. I just give the agent a Bitcoin wallet. It's like, all right, go figure out how to convert to the preferred currency of the service provider or the other agent you're buying something from. And I can see that's where things are going. Like I was saying, we're at the first stage where the incumbents have to realize this and begin. Rear-contacting the infrastructure on the digital side they have to enable this because once they do.

5:07They're going to get a ton, a ton more business, I think. Yeah. And again, I think for people who don't see this and trust me, someone who when I speak about these things, I'll occasionally go see the. The comments and the posts and people don't connect the agent side to, let's say the crypto guard rails and then kind of the impact it will have on business. And it's surprising to me. But again, because I live in it 24 hours a day, meaning I'm monitoring how things are moving and I'm using the tools and yeah, oh, Muse is the thing. Let me go sign up for it. Okay, instant AI. I talk about it one week. The amount of people reached out. And again, when met him, Muse is the number one downloaded app. Okay, and the numbers are big. You start realizing, oh, my God, the people who aren't paying attention to this. There's a million people that have already done it. So it's like, this is going to grow incredibly rapidly, especially when you realize how much time it can save you.

6:08The money part will come second. And that's the thing I keep trying to make sure people understand the money thing will come second. But this is where you have to start realizing, okay, how is crypto directly connected to agents. And that's where you have to go back. And that's why the stuff I'm talking about now is it was always made. Or digital agents because they're the only ones that can utilize the speed and they're the only ones who truly care about why are we using visa mastercard, why are we doing any of this stuff, why aren't we just going straight here, here, here, let me go shade, let me go through it. They have the time to do it. And it's going to be agent to agent. The next thing people have to think about is how important cryptography is in this, how important your identity is in this. The ecosystem starts to grow rapidly once the agents start transacting because then all the things that have ever been written about and talked about become more important because the ecosystem starts to grow in terms of volume and velocity. And the size of the ecosystem is going to grow rapidly over the next 12 months. Yeah, digging into agents specifically and how unprepared people are. I don't think it's mostly 99.5% of people on the planet don't understand that they hear AI, they think chat GBT.

7:23OK, what's the usage looking like when they think of usage, it's like OK, downloading news, talking with news, using tokens to do that. They don't realize that the agent agent token usage has gone exponential and far exceeds the human. And that fact alone, I think, highlights the. Arvertrage that exists in the market. The fact that most people don't understand that fact is extremely powerful. And it gets us something you've been talking about for many weeks now, which is that we're climbing this wall where you have a ton of the the layman, the public out there thinking that this is a bubble that's going to pop eventually. And they think we're going to do like a massive economic crisis driven by this, but if you look at the underlying usage, particularly agent agent seems that the fundamentals are going not only in the right direction, but far exceeding what anybody thought up to this point. This is.

8:25For anyone listening who falls into the camp of a warrior on AI, which is the majority of people. Getting an expected value of an investment is about lining up all of the probabilities outcomes and the upside and downside of all of them. So is there a bubble aspect of course you could come up with a bunch of reasons I mean. Me they're all tail risks of things, but you're not going to stop the progress on a you can't we're not going to pause it like that was stupid like some everyone's waiting just the reaction to the pause in AI from the most sophisticated investors in the world and I get emails that day. Well, this is we're going to be down big on Monday. I'm like, there'll be a knee jerk reaction and it'll be an opportunity to buy in here we are whatever many days later we're way through those levels, meaning we're way above where it was before that news came out. So for everyone listening who's worried. The expected value if you break it into a binomial situation let's assume.

9:28Use what I did in my video there's a 90% chance. We're headed towards abundance and there's a 10% chance. That we're going to blow up and I will never amount to anything. Okay one scenario you have a zero 10% chance of zero and on the other side you have a 90% chance of something just shockingly good expected value a shockingly good then in terms of the combination of the two now you can come up with all the different scenarios you want in between. But the reality is if you're worried about the 10% if you're waiting for that story the debt is too big this and that I can refute all of it but the only thing you have to make sure that you realize. Every day that the process gets bigger consumer agents are different than enterprise agents we haven't even completed the enterprise adoption yet and we're already moving on to the consumer agent side consumer agents are very different than enterprise enterprises about replacing. Digital employee human employees and it's through coding it's through API's and going into you know using up the amount of compute to figure things out for consumer agents.

10:36Now you're talking about them work in 24 seven to book you a trip to look into this to go through all of the permutations the amount of websites they have to touch it's continuous so consumer agents on top of enterprise agents means the compute needs just keep growing. So again it gets back to the simple thing all bubbles are about supply being in front of demand with the crypto doubters we built the guard rails. It's an empty city as I say it's a ghost city we we built the infrastructure we've been waiting for the users to come well the users are coming in the form of agents and if people want to watch one video for the rest of the month. To hear from someone who can take you through what's happening at the company level and how the R O I C is already happening in various forms not in the way you want it which is when are we going to see the revenues coming in oh look and for you know open AI only a vex and the hyperscalers only no John Gray from blackstone gave a talk yesterday to his at his event for 30 minutes it's on YouTube and he literally went through the five different ways that his companies of which he and

11:46you know has private how they're all been from AI in five different ways to increase their profitability which is seeing their margins grow when he's taking you through those scenarios I just don't think people have really really thought about hard enough about the fact that there's a higher probability of a good outcome then about outcome. And on the enterprise side it'll be interesting to see how that plays out I think we had a pretty big signal from the enterprise was last week of the week before with lathe and walkins deciding to buy the video GPU self-host and basically ensure that their IP isn't being leaked anthropic in open AI and I don't know exactly how late lathe and the walkins is implementing it but I imagine what they're doing is uploading the data. So that's the knowledge base of that firm over the course of decades and so every case every outcome every bit of research they've done that they have stored somewhere in a file system just when you're talking about enterprise adoption that's I think first before you even get into agents it's like okay how do I.

12:51I can view this institutional knowledge that we built up over over decades into the system so that the AI can basically use that to go achieve our goals and that alone is a massive undertaking. So the question I have is why to take them so long I've talked about Eli Lilly Eli Lilly did this a long time ago. I think there are initial data center private own data center with a thousand GPUs I think it's a thousand GPUs went up in January I believe it's called Lilly pod. They have toon lab which is a way for them brilliantly to collect other data combine it with their data on an anonymous basis but it helps them learn from their data while giving biotech company. The ability of testing their data on their data on Eli Lilly's data so if you have a science lab that has all of these experiments the pros and cons that come and where everything was going and you're just putting in there and seeing what the output comes in you have to think about how quickly the Navier Stokes thing means that we're getting to so for a law firm to do it.

14:03I guess the reason it took so long is because they didn't have the money that Eli Lilly did and they didn't have the understanding from being a Fortune 500 company and this is why I think there's been two levels so far that have been accelerating one is the Fortune 500 companies that have the money or adopting very quickly because they can just write the check and start going through it but they also have tons of tech engineers that are high level. I don't know if a law firm has that so they have to probably go through a consult that comes in and says what they can do and then they decide to do it if they have the money they make the investment they see the benefits. The other side that already is doing outside of Fortune 500 companies are AI native entrepreneurs they're the ones that have the ability of using open source and not needing to worry about if their data is being used because it's a tiny little private company that's not trying to it doesn't have things to protect. It actually needs to grow and the only thing they care about is going from zero to day to a billion revenue in two years and before they could have been competed they'll probably be monetized and move on to the next thing.

15:06Yeah. No, I think how we implement a TFTC everything we were feeding the models public anyway so I don't care if the open AI or the tropics these it but to your point. It isn't saying I was I was. Demoing it last night at the at the open party here at pub key for this freedom tech week and I have my Hermes agents connected to our company brain and I was like hey usually fountain mcp fountains where we host our podcast for RSS and has video and I was like hey. John R.O. and I from 1031 recorded a video this morning we talked about. We'll markets particularly what people aren't seeing like Venezuela imports are going up that looks like ships are making it through the street at 60% go clip that. And then pull out the juiciest sort of quote that and then once and summary of the clip and it's entirety posted on my ex within 10 minutes I didn't even look at X it was it was posted but to talk about efficiency that would have taken probably two hours for somebody on our team to go find it.

16:10Clip it get the tweet get the subtitles and I mean that utility is. Very misunderstood right now from us people this is just a podcast clipping. Yeah again and for for you guys the IP is using it. The AI models they just keep getting better and better the capabilities get better and better and. If you're involved in them every day you know to ask can I do this for people that don't use it often they'll see something in X or those someone will tell them about something and then they'll go in and they'll look at it then. If you're not using it every day and knowing that it's getting better every single day and you're too worried about hallucinations and stuff like that then you're not going to use it if you don't use it. You're screwed like that's the plain simple thing I think the value add for people is not. Understanding the things that AI can do out there it's the ability of just asking the question what can you do today that you couldn't do yesterday and the more that you use it for those things you start going I you've watched my my Sunday video for a long time.

17:22I don't know if you noticed but I was using a software open Bb for a long time and then all of a sudden open Bb. You know unfortunately start a business they close down. And I know the founder and it was a sad day I really like the guy and I was using the software because at the beginning when I started to do my video which was in 2024 the AI capabilities could not really deal with it that well and. He kept making additions to it so that I could use it so from my side it was it'll help him in his business by me using it as a product showing charts and things like that. But I had to make a switch during the summertime and this was like on a Wednesday and I put this stuff together with inside open Bb so I had to make a complete pivot. So now I'm in a bind so I go to. Open AI and I asked the question I asked chat Gbt here's what I've been using here's a sample of the video here's the way I put it together I need you to read do my process so that I can have a video done by the recording on Friday that's two days for me to have to complete a completely new process to do something that makes a while.

18:36It took me through to use Google slides it now I never use Google slides in like a big way I'd only used it let's say five times my life but it's told me it was the best way to do this for a variety of reasons that match which in hindsight was completely true. My process is now been reduced by 70% correct which is amazing because that means I could put the entire thing together do the video on one in four hours is now my guess and that is the thing that's happened is it's changed it. I had this whole database now open Bb slides I connected to that folder knowing that it was going I uploaded everything from open Bb and now when I need to find a slide that I've used in the past I just go into co work and go can you find the slide on consumer agents and enterprise agents which I did literally this morning and it gives me the image like this kind of stuff you couldn't do six months ago and so by asking the question when a problem comes up how do I solve this as opposed to.

19:42I'm just thinking and then like what am I going to do and try to learn on your own. You have to have the instinct just know that AI has the solution always so bring it back to time. How much time do people have to get on the straight and then tying it to the wall worry to how fast I mean you said happening fast let me expect it but in humans can't understand. What do you think the next year looks like and what are the opportunity cost if you don't move so let's let's break this down by what people care about each day. Number one their job I'm going to leave health aside for a second because I don't think that has to do with this unless you want to go use it but for your job I don't think you have any more time. I think every company now realizes that they have to use AI agents and they can they can the law firm can pay for that. Maybe let's assume they had a certain amount of cash in the partnership.

20:44And the partner sat around and I don't know what happened but I'm just saying if I was at the place this is what I do I'd sit around we go how much money do we have to buy all these GPUs and set this up. If we make an investment based on the cash we have plus what's coming over the next year what is that going to do from a cap X perspective and since it's not a public company they don't have share it's their partnership they have to make the decision so they go this is a good investment how are we going to pay for it. You don't think they're going to pay for it with human beings like literally the compensation they have and maybe it's not from firing people but maybe it's not hiring people over the next five years because they won't need them maybe it's combination of both. You have to understand that with agents comes competition for human employees so if you don't want to be one of the people that's let go if you want to empower yourself to go build your own business to compete with that firm. Because you don't have the issue they have you can actually just use the public thing and grow your business and be a lawyer you have your law degree just go be a lawyer and serve me Jordi I need I always need a lawyer to help me with my business.

21:50Empower yourself to feel that you can be an entrepreneur and you can compete with them before they get rid of you and the way to do that is to use it so I think within the next year if you haven't done the usage side the agency side the empowerment side I think you're in trouble from the investment side and the financial side which is the other thing I try to focus on. You have to understand that if you're worried about AI. You're probably also one of the ones not using it there's a high correlation between I'm worried about this being a bubble is going to hurt my investment portfolio and I'm not using it because I don't believe in it that is the denial that people have and I think on the investment side you're losing money every day the stock market not investing in it I don't know what you're doing with your money I think it's a bubble you're reducing it you've got it safe. You can make more money investing in the things that represent what it's going to look like the infrastructure build that is going to continue we need compute it's the reason why like I focus people on that side crypto do your homework now on crypto I view this as the beginning of an epic move in crypto because the guard rails are valued at zero and I hate to say that everyone but the people supplying the guard rails are valued at zero and the reason I know that is because if you take a

23:05theory and Bitcoin out of the crypto market cap you're not left with a lot it's less than micron it's less like that is the infrastructure side now I do believe that a theory and fits the ecosystem but not in this speculative phase where we need the apps being built on top of a theory and so all of these layer twos the the sum of them is going to go up and value because the velocity and the GDP the velocity and the volume of transactions is going to go through the roof so if everything that I just said on the work side you don't use it you're in the middle of the market. I'm in trouble on the investment side if you don't understand or believe in crypto at this point so you don't believe in AI or crypto that's a very dangerous place to be folks and a lot of people are in that position yeah most are that's the scary thing most are yeah and it's so let's let's walk through how the order of operations and how you see this egyptic economy getting imbued with agency to a higher degree with digital money and smart contracts whatever it may be because that's that's one thing I've been asked myself is it you mentioned crypto and you have a bunch of different tokens and each of them have a market cap and

24:17will that's the question will stable coins went out I've fallen the Bitcoin or camp so I'm a believer that at the end of the day if you're an agent or human you're going to want the most saleable currency the biggest market cap with the best money in the digital economy so I think that's Bitcoin to your point about l2s and things like that it's pretty clear out of the gate stable coins are winning the the Atlantic commerce stuff in the in the very very early days but I wonder again go back to what I was saying earlier do agents prefer Bitcoin and does the Bitcoin stack have the necessary infrastructure to facilitate everything that agents are going to want to do particularly on the payment side there's no way so again I'm I'm a I have a very unique position on this this is why I love the fight between the bit coiners and the programmables and I want them to try to bucket me because I may in the long run a Bitcoin maxi but the path to that point and what I mean by that is in the end there is only one thing left that I can say with certainty will not be have their growth disrupted

25:42at the end of the day all tokens going up in value anything you can buy as an individual investor is about growth everything there are a lot of assumptions that come with growth one of them is comp I mean the main one is how quickly will competition come in to destroy my growth in a world where AI allows things to be instantly replicated that time goes to zero so if you agree with me that any innovation has a lifespan that is far shorter than it used to be so I'll but you have you're you're you're in a very difficult position because the innovators dilemma is OK I want to create something is a great idea let me create it let me hope that there's not 8000 other people doing the same idea at the same time because we all know that there's not a lot of growth it's all about competition and my belief is that with billions of entrepreneurs and trillions of agents all working together over the course of the next decade that we will get to

26:42creative destruction Joseph Shumpeter style that is instantaneous so at the end of the day things will grow but who wins in that case the entrepreneur wins if they create something and they have a community and that token goes from 100 to 1000 then it's still a thousand for the rest of time what's kind of like Ford stock so if everything hits that point why did Ford stock stop growing because of competition eventually there was a better way to make cars as we found out from Tesla and other things so if you go from 10 to 1000 and it takes one year but it never grows again who wins only the entrepreneur in the community that's it and again that's all that happened for that period of time but then it stops growing and then what does everyone go well I got to go find something else to invest in and this just keeps happening and happening and happening and happening Bitcoin to me is the place when that investment stops growing and you have to go find the next investment money goes there if you've invested in something your word because it could go down in value too they might everyone might

27:45leave and then all of a sudden it goes down where does your money go where your money goes to something safer that's what happens in the S&P 500 people invest in companies all people do but if you ask them where most of their money is it's not 90% is in Tesla unless they work for the company and they don't have a choice in their owning this most of their value is in moving it into a combination of 60 40 and all these different things well that is Bitcoin to me a story of value is the diversification you have in your life it's your real estate at your bonds it's your stocks that your private credits all these things that the wealth managers put into a decade from now Bitcoin will be the only thing left so that's the first thing I want to say is I do believe in that in terms of the the L2s I'm focused on two things right now and I'll give two companies that are straddling the the the Trab-Fi world and the crypto world so that everyone can just take these two companies and do the research stripe and Robinhood those are two that matter stripe from a stablecoin basis their transaction based company if you go through their stack of companies that they've invested in starting with bridge

28:53and going through to the end now with open router pretty straightforward like they're set up for the agentic side they're set up for the stablecoin side and this was a company that honestly was not a believer in crypto when you really go back they didn't have a focus on it until the bridge well m&a deal i think that closed in february of twenty twenty five i think we heard about in october of twenty twenty four that's a big admission that stablecoins are going to be a big part of the transaction side and they're a company that straddling both worlds in the premium they pay for the they value bridge of what a billion dollars on ten million revenue yep so you had to imagine internally they had a lot of them and we're gonna overpay for this on both sides the bridge i mean to have a deal that comes that high bridge had no revenues and i think the company had been around for less than two years so when you go through the details of it and you're like they were they negotiated a great deal because they believed in it strike believed in it

29:54you end up with open router at this point like why is striped getting involved in the open router why were they trying to buy paypal like think about all the things right there going through the entire stack of house tablecoins fit into this and that's the agentic side so that's one side and then the robinhood side is tokenization and tokenization is huge it has huge implications there is nothing more important the Bitcoin and to the programmable so the Bitcoiners and the programmables need to just understand tokenization is the key thing because tokenization unleashes the nine hundred trillion dollars in two ways I wrote a paper this week you you will not have seen it but this weekend I'll I'll go through it it's really call out to economists so for everyone who thinks they know how economics run if I said to everyone and this is 99.99% of people on the planet this is my own unique I've never seen this written anywhere this is new thing how do we stop assets from falling we know the fiat system is a Ponzi scheme we know it's levered we know there's about a hundred and twenty trillion of physical hard currency in the world that supports nine hundred trillion and assets

31:08that is a levered Ponzi scheme ok meaning if all of a sudden the nine hundred trillion tries to come and get liquid so they go to sell in their money to pay off debts whatever it is we have a version of the great depression or a mini version of the great financial crisis or even covid then all the assets fall and what are the central banks have to do they have to come in and print money and what is money well that's M2 why do they have to do that they have to re liquefy so whenever I hear people in crypto talk about the liquidity cycle I'm always saying they're going when am I going to get my chance to explain to them that that is a myth that is when you're in the speculative phase of crypto so for everyone out there it's like it's a liquidity cycle of which almost every Bitcoin or is and almost every person out there we need this we need the ism to go we need all these things to happen the reality is for me we're about to unleash the nine hundred trillion in liquid form that's what tokenization is what happens to M2 the Ponzi scheme then ends because now you have nine hundred trillion dollars of assets that can theoretically buy a coffee so nobody needs to sell during these little mini panics because they already have cash the reason they were selling their assets is because they needed cash well now they can post that money or transaction

32:22that money or transact that money into whatever debt they have the world changes overnight because tokenization increases the M2 in a very different form now is it as liquid as Bitcoin no but can you transfer it some price a house instantaneously into this yeah pretty close I know this it's not going to take a lot of time so that's where the tokenization side has a huge impact so what Vlad and Robinhood and others but Vlad in particular with the Robinhood chain this is all preparation for what's going to happen with tokenization so those are L2's which again increase the nine hundred trillion to come into Bitcoin it wasn't going to happen without the programmables so for every Bitcoin or who thought eventually these incumbents as Michael Seller said which I agree with you don't find Bitcoin Bitcoin finds you if you're wealthy you don't need Bitcoin you don't need to believe in it and so that money needs to come over to drive it to a million dollars sorry everyone but that's what needs to happen that's what happened with gold whenever there's a panic people move into gold to hide their money

33:29they need to believe their fiat assets are not going to work but that group already believes in gold you need them to believe in this in this whole we're going to give the money to our kids and they're going to do a thing that's going to take too long especially the world I believe in where nobody dies you don't want that to be the thing you actually want the money to move over there because of greed and that means that the fiat assets become liquid and everyone goes hey wait this private credit fund I have that I can't get out of it's now liquid it's just a 20% discount do you know how many people would sign up right now for their pride to get their money back in private credit how many retail people would want their money back and say I'm never doing this again give it to me that's what's going to happen with tokenization yeah you're just running the calculus okay if I take a 20% haircut and put it in Bitcoin is Bitcoin going to go up exactly 20% yeah freaks this was brought to you by our good friends the Bitcoin team at block Bitcoin at block Bitcoin was originally introduced as appeared appear electronic cash system we all know that idea wasn't just a buy and hold to use Bitcoin and many different facets holding is one facet spending receiving is another facet working towards this for 17 years and block has put together a whole ecosystem of companies to really bring about the reality of Bitcoin is everyday money so with cash app you can buy spend send receive earn get paid in Bitcoin when you're trading over $2,000

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35:52facilities in Iowa on industrial power rates you can never get on your own the Bitcoin they mine goes straight from your machine to your wallet two reasons I find this interesting right now the second one is the one that nobody's talking about one is the economics cheap power this let's you convert your electricity in a Bitcoin at a discount to spot you're acquiring the asset below the sticker price everyone else pays to listen closely if you've had a big income here making a lot of money out there I know a lot of you freaks are making a lot of money miners are classified as computer equipment with a big beautiful bill equipment means depreciation while fine buyers can write off the entire purchase in year one it's the same playbook real estate investors have run for decades pointed at Bitcoin or CPA want to see this before the end of the year with attractive financing available you can deploy without selling assets to do it this is not a garage operations of a mining runs over 40,000 machines it was just ranked the fastest growing company in Iowa on the ink 5000 chart put together a valuable resource called the 2026 Bitcoin mining blueprint covers the five mistakes investors make when allocating to mining and how to avoid them before going capital you can access it for free at simple mining dot IO slash TFTC that's simple mining dot IO slash TFTC I was for a while like a real world tech asset tokenization

37:07bear never really made sense to me but then you think of stocks in how that's all settled to the DTC and so I go okay the guard rails of these digital assets make a lot more sense for this it makes a way more efficient and the as we're going to this discussion the one question I have whether it's the shumters creative destruction happening instantaneously or the ability to get liquidity for before you get off of that I just want to make sure that people since you you didn't see how RWA is would work in this I just want you to use the house example do you own a house yes okay so when you buy a house that process is painful and it's long long. Once you have it if your house goes up in doubles in value over the next six months and you have tremendous equity which is where most of the country people right now are trapped in their homes

38:09they're trapped why are they trapped because they don't want to have to reset their mortgage at higher levels I don't understand how people don't realize that the speed of buying a house or selling a house if you want to sell that house what better way to sell it than to open it up to all eight billion people on the planet to buy it like I don't that that's there why wouldn't you want to sell a house and have it sold in a matter of minutes as opposed to the process that goes on and people don't believe a house can sell in a minute once our digital agents are there and AI agents do all of the paperwork and everything there and they have all the background check and you're identified based on your credit and your collateral and it's all liquid it's all on the chain everything goes immediate so that might take another decade whatever the case is but when you're investing in something and I'll use the stupid comment that Jason Calcannis made on you know dead cat bounds and Bitcoin and this one that I literally can't believe that people don't realize that by the time you invest in something that is obvious the value has gone up 50 times you can only invest in things when they're not

39:17obvious what I'm talking about right now to someone who believes in crypto but didn't see the value that tokenization are is with RWA's would bring if one person does it and says I sold my house in a matter of minutes far higher price and you did I had eight billion bids on it that will change everyone doing it so again it'll speed it up because money makes people do things costs reduction makes people do things but being trapped in your house with that owners equity right now not able to get out everyone would sign up for RWA's right now. So in that example somebody has to live in the house but when you say that you're basically just selling inequity portion or getting a HELOC essentially. Yeah if you want to still be in there you're able to get cash for it by just raising it and it goes further than that if you're a small business that is in a and I have a friend who's in this situation. So he has a business he bought in on Long Island. Are you from no you're not from long. I'm filling. Yeah. I know you're in Philly and so it was a hard night last night.

40:18No, no, no, I'm a Jets fan. It was a hard night on Sunday. It's been a hard life but I'm done next one so I don't really care. Sixers will get there at some point. This will be the most disappointing year ever. You have everything coming in so this will be a very disappointing year. So let's go back to the equation. My friend owns a beverage business that he bought a long time ago. I don't know if you've heard the kids don't drink beer. He's not allowed sell liquor. It's like a horrible situation. We were just talking about it. So let's assume his business is bringing in very little cash. But at the same time he has a value of real estate that's worth five million dollars. So his revenues have gone down and he's trying to make payments because he has a belief that the business is going to grow again. And he's going to be able to sell something else because he has a license that starts in the year but he doesn't have the money to keep going. So either he has to go out and borrow money and the bank's going to be like well you don't have any revenues coming in. Like they're really down. We can't invest in this business or he could just quickly go in and go I just need money for the next six months.

41:21So I want to sell off a piece of the business token. I want to sell off a piece of it. He can come back and buy it in six months until the revenue comes in. So everything happens in a different form. And again when you want to go borrow the money you have to leave your your business. You have to go out go to the banks. You have to go sell them on this. You have to prepare all these documents. You have to go seven different banks. This is all done via crypto. So to me because it's programmable and because agents can do all the work. That's where it becomes aligned without crypto agents can't replace that function. That's the part that becomes important in this whole thing without agents. The human could use the crypto. He could encroaching it. Exactly. So agents change the whole mechanism. Yeah. I'm thinking of pure Bitcoin collateralized loans as the like the nation. Yeah. For example, this like the ability for me to go to strike. Coast Bitcoin get cash get to my bank account within literally minutes. Exactly. Incredibly valuable.

42:21Yeah. And that's the way to be is everything becomes liquid and you go through some things will be more liquid than other things. In the case of the real estate maybe it takes a day to go through this but that's better than 60 days. It's better than having a big on it to where you got to pay all this stuff. There's a whole bunch of different ways where you're monetizing something that's already worked out. And you have the agents construct the strategy for the best wood link. That's the leverage and payback period. Look at your like all right. Here's the best solution for you considering your current state. The analogy for everyone to recognize is Uber camp work without the smartphone. Uber camp work without the app store. You can't carry a laptop around and be doing like you needed to have the phone. Agents are the use case for connecting to humans so the problem is people don't think of agents the same way they think of apps. That's why you know this concept of L2 is very similar to the taxi side. Like there were already taxis why do we need Uber and the question is everyone should ask why do we need Uber.

43:25Well initially it was cheaper significantly cheaper eventually they merged together and the cost of Uber went up. Okay why did the cost go up what happened was a regulation was at the business whatever the case was the agents are the facing side between the humans and the end transactions that go on. So whether it's stable coins or whether it's tokenization they need agents to be able to do this because humans were never going to be able to get on in wallets. That's the thing I think everyone in crypto underestimated which I still say publicly is is is is an issue that can only be solved by agents. It's not easy to set up all these wallets it's not easy to go in there and just create them and I guess the side that's good is I'd rather it be difficult because it also means there's a lot of guard rails that are in there to protect privacy and to make it difficult for hacking and the more hacking that happened which are happening a lot more. I think you start pricing out the weaker wallets and the agents know not to go to them so then the agents end up at the better ones you have to understand like the agents are the ones that reduce the hackings and reduce the vulnerabilities.

44:29By knowing which ones have already done and when they start making the decision you start having less problems to. Yeah there was a bit devs developer meeting here meet up here last night that was obviously in Bitcoin I think Bitcoin is. The ecosystem has been the first target of AI initiated hackings and they talk a lot about it. Yeah I mean it's been because you had Rob Hamilton from anchor watch you basically with a group of other developers when the cold card wallet had an entry bug that was being exploited by AI. AI attacks they've been okay if this is happening to cold card which many people thought myself included was the. Gold standard of Bitcoin hardware while it's is the who else can this I'm interested they basically set up a great at a harness. To go inspect the code of every Bitcoin project that they could find a GitHub for and found hundreds of vulnerabilities within within days and.

45:34Responsibly disclose to many the projects they were patch point being is we're at we're still at the early stage where. Humans are foulable humans we're finding out in dick when the first easy target is bear asset if you get it start to get back. And we're hardening the Bitcoin ecosystem right now because of that many projects did get hacked over the last six weeks but many others found critical vulnerabilities first patch them and the system this system overall is been more robust when this window where the pain is extremely. Extremely hard extremely painful but I think a year from now the ecosystem will be more robust and secure than it ever has been because of this and it's funny agents are doing the work of inspecting the code bases. Presenting patches and helping to secure all this but going back to. Creative destruction you're going to incredible liquidity can.

46:38Happen to a market of eight billion people to sell assets whenever how do you have stability in this world like what does stability look like. When all this is going on. The way you describe it like it sounds awesome but it also seems discombobulating. I think this is the human tendency if I asked you ones the last time things were stable. You know when they were for everyone is when you were kid it's because you didn't know any better. You have more to lose when you get older you are getting closer to death psychologically you're on a journey and you have kids or you're thinking about having kids and. As someone who has for I can just tell you. When my first child was born. I went from feeling indestructible like I don't care about death like I'm not frightened by dying when I die hopefully I live the good life I can only control what I can and so try to be in shape I try to eat well try to work out try to.

47:42I have to try to surround myself with people who bring me joy all these different things that I've learned over life but. You have that first child. You're vulnerable because now your job is to protect that child and it's an instinct that has clearly been handed down biologically to where. And I remember feeling like I drove home from the hospital and I was all of a sudden now is someone who never worried about driving I was like. So I got on a plane I was worried about the plane crashing like these instincts start to hit you so I think it's normal for people to question how. Change is going to not be disruptive. And I don't think humans can possibly be in a world where they all agree I do believe that when you watch Star Trek in the sci-fi things the number one take out of the future is that we're still fighting wars and we're still battling for things we're just. Changing on this I think that's an animal instinct that goes on in every single place and people do it. For reasons that we can't so it's never going to be stable my friend.

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50:59The crowd health platform in the community the corners you found sovereign money now find sovereign health and sovereign healthcare. You have the pace of the volatility seems to be increasing and bring this back to. The beginning the beginning of the conversation we're mentioning the slow down it's one thing I forgot to bring up but. The administration everything we've talked about really is somewhat dependent on the if at least for Americans the US government to be be on board with us and it seems like the Trump. Administration is on board not only with the AI stuff but ripped as well clarity act failed but the SEC the CFT see the OCC or rule making anyway they're not waiting for a bill and then. On the slow down news everybody was wearing like oh gosh we're going to stop this and then Trump comes out with a post like no we're not selling that slowing down actually accelerate lead and stopping a pansy. And I think love them or hate them. I think this particular juncture for US history it's important that.

52:01This administration has this this per view and they're they're enabling this how important do you think that is. I think it's important but I don't think. I think the voters voted for this I think crypto is a major part of his win. I don't think it gets brought up enough as to the. The impact that had on the election but it did I mean the numbers are there the stats are there you know. Crypto packs that put money into elections had a huge success and so I think by bringing in a treasury secretary who quotes Satoshi and whose pro Bitcoin to bring in a Fed chair whose pro Bitcoin. I think when you go throughout the administration he tried to. Bring on people that were pro this and whatever his rationale behind it is I didn't get the impression that he had a vision for it. I just knew that the people wanted it.

53:01He did have a belief in the distribution of wealth as a major issue in the country and bringing back manufacturing now. If you think about what's happening that is what's happening meaning. We do have a lot of jobs being created in the construction side the middle part of the country is benefiting from the data centers and from the gas and from all of the things that go on. I'm a big believer that entrepreneurs are going to have a huge impact if I could be long something right now which doesn't exist I want to be long. The 200 million entrepreneurs that are happening and coming in the country I want an index of that I don't want the S&P 500 I want. This a I native world of entrepreneurs I don't want to Russell 2000 I don't want any of that stuff I don't want public companies I actually believe that. The growth is coming now where do I play that I play that through crypto and I play it through AI so those are the ways that I play that situation right now so rather than get into. Whether the administration got lucky whether they made whether they the voters did it I think the reality is that it's happening and they've by by speeding up the AI side by making it more tax efficient for the hyper scalers to take out the dead and be able to appreciate over a longer time.

54:16I'm sure it was a huge thing it accelerated AI development crypto is directly connected to when we got the AI development leopold road and situational awareness which came out after. No it came out before Trump was elected so it came out during the election period and only a couple months I think came out June of 24 Trump spoke at the Bitcoin event and was it. Yes, Bill and July so before that if you go back and look at that point leopold thought we would hit the point we're at now sometime in 2027 the fact that we hit it in 2026 to me is a direct. Oralation with the administration saying that AI is a focus reducing the timeline on things and basically giving people the rules up for the next four years you can run as fast as you want on AI and you have my blessing for the crypto crew it's the same thing the genius act was critical as much as clarity is important. Like you said you can kind of get around that which they've gotten and then once it's going. Foconization and stable coins and everything accelerating which is going to be accelerated by the agents by time we get to the next election it will again be a focal point and no one's going to want it to go backwards if it's reducing the cost of people to.

55:26Live their lives and I think that's what's going to happen one more thing that fits in with it so when we get back to the stability side kind of directly comes back to the polarizing situation of of politics. Like I said there's a polarizing situation inside crypto the bit coiners and the programmables and I wish everyone could all get along together but for some reason I go on from Bitcoin podcast and. Well we don't really say crypto we don't get involved in my I don't understand this whole thing I'm new to the party guys I'm looking at this is everyone's going to win this fits back into the question of stability if I said to you. You're going to have chaos that's been just like the last 50 years it won't be World War two and it won't be the great depression but what you've gone through the last 30 years. Is going to continue that chaos that you describe it as but here's the benefit that comes with you signing up for that you're going to live for another 300 years. If that's what happens like isn't that kind of the the the the the quid pro quo of like you got to give up something you're going to get something I think when people look at what.

56:28The administration has been able to do I think you have to put in a context of if you believe AI is going to solve lots of problems and be dangerous at the same time and create lots of chaos. If the end result is living a lot longer healthier life being able to see your kids grow up that's a pretty good. You know sign on the dotted line with the devil us to the outcome that's good you think we're going to let it be 300. I am already you can go back and read writings from me for a long time do I believe in the exponential innovation the solution of people not aging absolutely it's a math problem so do I think 300 150 whatever the cases it's hard for people to imagine but if I would have told you that we'd have smartphones in our hands 25 years ago doing this stuff that I told you that we'd be solving math problems that. Einstein couldn't solve and then have been around for 150 to 175 years. In a matter of 88 hours do I think we're going to solve the world's greatest science problems yeah what is the difference between saying we're going to have people living on Mars and living to 300 like what's the where does it get too crazy so yes I do.

57:38Wild world where are the bottlenecks obviously compute we think compute usage it already is going up exponentially we're only on the cuss muse just for opt I think that's going to have massive yeah it's going to lead to a massive growth and demand for for these tokens is that the biggest bottleneck right now. This bottleneck is humans you said it like everyone's worried the politics are making it a major issue like the data centers can't be happening because they make up stuff about them and don't. Actually provide people with the right facts because the Chinese the Russians the arenas and anyone that's at either war competition with us wants our politics to be polarizing can just put something. You can take the the anthropic guy that work there for six weeks and get them 170 million views on the X which is clearly part politics part geopolitics in terms of the ability of making this viral. Humans are the biggest friction and physics are number two but there they go hand in hand and so this is going to.

58:43In a good way this will have it go somewhat slower because I think the humans are doing the right thing with the pausing AI not not that they're pausing the development. But the pause in releasing them and I think one thing everyone should think about this is important for fiat assets in general meaning for stocks. Alex carpe was on cbc last week. And. He talked about the fact is just a matter of time within the next year that open a i is. Now i've said this publicly to where not specifically them but i've said to investors and i've said it in writings it's like where is the line between something that's so powerful that it could take down the entire system which is what these guys wrote about which they believe if you take the internet down we're all in trouble. They were saying that this is possible like not just possible like it is possible it was happening with some of their things not that it was taking it down but it was creating these little places that you don't know the exist so.

59:46I want people to think about like when you get a virus in your body. You don't find out until the symptoms start showing up like it's in there like you could be you could be sick now you don't know eventually your body start showing the thing that that swarm outcome of hugging face that was a symptom that was a. Hey we got to take some medicine for this so the pause is related to it so I do think what Alex carpe said is it is a very real possibility and the problem is if a product if the most important public company in the world can be privatized again this is very powerful for entrepreneurs it's very powerful for crypto it is very negative for public companies in my opinion to have that kind of situation because then the question is where's the line for anyone. They've been investing in intel they mean once it gets to the point that it's that powerful to military weapon. I don't know where they don't get to involved in things so I think that was an important statement.

1:00:48Yeah the stakes are so high I'm just thinking because then because the next step I wanted to bring up is robotics and I'm just thinking like okay like we're worried about stuff happening these these worms getting into the digital world. With robotics it's a whole nother thing is that interest the physical. Yeah and yeah and you talk well because I want to bring up robotics in terms of like token consumption and the opportunity that exists there and how much is that going to balloon. The usage of of these GPUs and then you. I'm now scatterbrain but like bring back open router like what is the market for these tokens even look like at the end of the day is the way that we're going and buying 200 dollar amount. Subscriptions and all these different. Model providers will we look back at that like I was completely antiquated like he's in the future will we even know what models we're using or they'll just be open router like companies that. That emerge and do all that for you.

1:01:49I it's very hard. So first on the progression of compute needs for everything and now we're talking about the edge so currently we're doing everything token wise in the cloud. On prem is starting so when you start getting into the law firms you start getting into. Into Eli Lilly well they're building their own compute providers that way. Think of this is the only now to come up with is when we went from an agrarian economy to an industrial economy and John Gray included this kind of visual back in in the presentation I mentioned that's that's on YouTube. And that was in 1870 to 1900 so if you go back to the days of when like when we were truly agrarian. We built crops you know we raised crops to feed our community and that's what we did now there were little jobs or blacksmiths there were stuff like that but eventually you get into industrialization and you get urbanization and you speed up this whole process when I would travel to China and I saw the ghost cities.

1:02:49That was urbanization they were still an agrarian economy that was now trying to get everyone to go to the city because when you go to the city then you have more economic growth and people get wealthier and all these things and so I witness this whole thing happened in China. I watch and build it lane highways when you're like there's no cars everybody's in a rickshaw they were building for the future and how fast they were going to invest in this so with compute the only analogy I can give is that when you go from the agrarian to the industrial when it ended up happening we saw an explosion in people. People on the on the planet so you go from where feeding our community all the food we need is here now we're going to the cities were exploding the population when I say exploding it we're going from less than a billion people to where we are today an extra seven billion seven times and we're shrinking farming. Everyone's leaving being a farmer and how they're going to work in the cities how do we feed everyone. Those people need food everybody so what do I agents and humanoids need they need food and their food is compute so we're to very early stages and if you go back to the green example there's less than a billion agents there's less like we're at the very early stage whenever people tell me we're going to be over spliden compute I'm like you don't know what you're saying like this didn't exist we have to feed now trillions of agents.

1:04:08So every day enterprise agents come on like I said well now we're going to have the next phase which is consumer agents then behind that we have fsd we have humanoids what's the same as the other agents know that brings vision and like they need to work in the world so adding vision into the compute needs for a car to make decisions on the fly for a humanoid to see that grandma needs needs her medicine and need. Vision and it needs to understand and learn as it goes through it so you're talking about. Compute needs that are far greater than what humans can comprehend and these are fax as to what's coming humanoids are not a distant thing like they're here today the fsd is here today so whenever I just kind of think of people I'm like we're only in the first inning of the compute needs so to your point the humanoids in the robotics have a huge impact on the compute needs which is why the investment side for the memory names for the semiconductors all that I have my. I have my under name portfolio it's like guys this isn't over we're just.

1:05:10At the next stage and consumer agents are starting now and that's why meadow is up 13% on Monday because we're like well this is most downloaded app what do they do consumer agents wow we're consumer agent time what does that mean and now they're starting to look AMD's up Intel's up oh my god we need more semis so. Energy we have enough energy are we building a fast enough the infrastructure. So on the one side if you assume static innovation we're in trouble. If you assume innovation we have plenty and let me let me before people go he's wrong go through it no we have plenty of power inside the United States for all of the compute I just said at least for the next three years assuming it doesn't go parabolic probably the next five where's going to come from magically the grid. The grid. The grids all we don't have enough yes we do we just can't use it efficiently we have double. The amount of capacity because we can't run it at full and if people don't know that they should go look it up.

1:06:10So you have to think of novel solutions and what AI could bring is that's the thing people underestimate is when you're in exponential innovation they extrapolate linearly out it's like no no no along the way we're going to solve problems. Where is Navier Stokes fit in that whole thing. Fluid dynamics okay well that has an impact on gas turbines has an impact on boats on planes also has an impact on batteries you know how important batteries are to the grid if right today we could have a bunch of batteries we can plug everyone into the grid not have a problem. One of the reasons why Bitcoin miners have become more attractive in certain states like Texas because we're like wait a second. So you guys can use the grid when no one else is using the grid but then you can turn it off because when the power goes up it's about arbitrage for you guys you guys are actually like a synthetic like. Group that's good for the grid yep they are so that's one of the reasons why Bitcoin miners become more of an interesting part of this and again how cryptos connected the AI in various ways.

1:07:13Here's the other place when you're in this situation if you take the batteries and you connect to the grid and you store all that power then you can throw out you can just run it all the time and fill it up and then if we ever need that point because there's a weather event or something that drives the demand up because the temperatures go up to 150 in Texas and everyone's sitting there and they got their air conditioner running all the day you're okay the grid's going to go down up no we'll just use the battery that we have stored for the next year now to have that just like you had to do with Tesla when they created the cars and the batteries there was no novel solution but we went from people doubting an electric car. Where we are today when they first came out I think there was 20 miles of distance or something like that go back and read the original roadster thing and how far you could go but the reason it was not a viable solution is because you couldn't drive it that far you could drive around the corner show show it off and then you had to come back and plug in again and the plugging in took a long period of time because there were no chargers now fast forward car gets 400 miles of range the chargers are everywhere so I don't think people are thinking enough about how batteries are a solution to the energy

1:08:21problem and now I have full confidence full confidence that between that the innovations that have already happened this year to allow us to build things behind the leader which was not a thing before colossus all of these innovations are coming my friend. Yeah that's it's funny how the Bitcoin mining industry I've been in it for eight years now and we went through discovering all this and now watching the world way up to what we've been beating the table over for probably six years since the right before the Chinese mining ban particularly with demand responses like yes we've been telling you and behind the meter even that's what I was in oil fields in North Dakota I wasn't personally but I the company that I worked for from 2018 to 2021 we did flare gas mining so we'd bring generators on a well pad take the gas scrub it put it through a generator mine Bitcoin with it and there's a ton and it's been

1:09:21interesting to this is talking about the convergence of crypto and AI Bitcoin AI it happens in somebody we're talking about energy we're talking about agents but the people even open router was founded by the open the open CT which will be in a fee platform and there had a strategy was an ex marathon guy and I'm going to record next with somebody from news research he came from foundry and like there's this and I think we've discussed this before but in my life the early adopters of AI have typically been people in the Bitcoin industry that are there's there's something with the psyche of people that have been in this industry and I think the fact that they're in it is a tell that they're early adopters and that's that's the thing I don't think many people appreciate is like a lot of the companies that are coming up in AI have people that came from this industry and to your point about these these convergences are happening at every layer and given the people there and vice versa too I'm guessing you've never heard of Ali a

1:10:32yeah okay so allie a is one of the original partners of a 16 Z he is part of the crypto group so he's been at the place a long time and I ran into him and I'm going to be I just did a video for my subscribers titled crypto why now and this was my way of kind of saying to people who are part of my AI subscribers but this is also for crypto people because like I've listened to you for a while like as I've kind of consumed knowledge to to understand crypto more I have to go back to the people that have been creating content for a long time because as I believe and as you know when you interview smart people you consume a lot of that information there's things I said today that you're have connected for you there's things you've asked me that have connected for me allie a when to Stanford he worked in Google X out of school many work for Google brain he's an AI and cryptography expert he decided to go to a 16 Z because his story is that he was trying to

1:11:46Google X guys to invest in crypto it's a great story of someone I'd never heard of but I'm using him in my video and I used him in the video for why now for people to go learn because I'm like you should go listen to this guy talk about it so the videos I'm showing are recent interviews with him in May they raised another fun at a 16 Z which I think is really important for people on the crypto side this was in the the depths of the bear market so this is when Bitcoin had been down for six months or seven months since since October 10th and they're talking about taking in 2.2 billion dollars for it and the whole rationale with Chris Dixon who you probably have heard of so allie a is the person that nobody seems to I didn't know my new Chris Dixon for a long time allie a is the person I care the most about because he understands the value of the agenda side he talks about privacy he's the one that got me so focused on Z cash and I started to understand from a business fiduciary who's raised money who now understands oh my gosh I think Z cash should be up massively over the next year if my view of the value of privacy my view of the

1:12:57value of trust these are all things that I'm realizing crypto is going to be valued off of it's going to be off privacy it's going to be off trust it's going to be off speed these are metrics that don't fit in the the fiat system you can't do that with stocks but there's value for that's why the multiples going down because on the flip side I don't trust you're going to be here in the next five years because you're not going to be in business you better adapt like everything is about those things that I mentioned privacy like Z cash the ability to do things and not actually know who's on the side should it be bigger than Bitcoin no should it probably be 10% of the value of it yeah my guess is it probably should in the long run if I'm right about privacy allie a takes you through his vision of the world and how important agents are to be it's very hard for me to find people that speak that way I have to go into the depths of someone who went to Stanford was in Google brain and all this so I think as you kind of connect all these dots and you start going through the way all this plays out the

1:13:58backwards side of the power and the electricity side and how it connects back into this they're all related to AI and crypto being synergistically the thing that matters the most in the next decade have you looked into e cash at all I have not spent I have not spent enough time on e cash looking at you can also the double blinded signatures I think that if you're looking for like velocity I think I think he cash is a is a much much better suited the Z cash right out of the Z cash L2s look like but he cash is gives you that perfect privacy but the speed I would you can transact particularly for agents and I've given my agent he cash wallet and it's funny just watching it go yeah I'm like hey go on LM markets and trade just take just messing with like go on LM markets you can sign in using your lightning network address and then use e cash trade and I'm going to do it. Send it money with the cash we send it back convert it back to you cash and it's here's my issue as people kind of think of this I think when so only reason I care about Z cash is because the privacy side what Robinhood chain like everything for me started with X Y's so I have a chain that goes backwards the mistake people are going to make is doing homework on these things like it matters.

1:15:26Whether something goes from one to 100 or one to 200 and something else goes from one to 300 to one to 400 is complete waste of time. In the end they're both going to peak and they're both going to stop growing at some point and once we get to the point where privacy is valued maybe that prevents them from getting combined or let's assume there's ten of them I still believe in the end in this perfect example. The value of privacy relative to Bitcoin should be ten to fifteen percent just because that's what goes on in certain parts of the world where people need the privacy most people don't most businesses don't but some businesses like an asset manager they can't have their clients out like there's certain components were agent agent when they're talking you don't want them to know who it is so I just think for all of it. Rather than get into who wins who loses that to me is a dangerous game especially this part of the cycle I think this part of the cycle is like it was for semiconductors in the first quarter.

1:16:29It matter which one you bought they all went up five to ten times the pain now is which one do I buy and that's the knife fight and the knife fight is much harder than the we didn't even see this coming fight and the we didn't see it coming is where we are in crypto my mind. I realize is a sort of what's our fifth conversation but this one I think you might be the anti-edgeds it's run I think you two are on like polar apps that the spectrum of your view on this whole thing it's funny he's very popular and I'm talking about the wall wary and people. Fearful of the circular financing and the fact that nothing's here like it's it blows my mind that somebody like him can get his popular things people want to confirm that. I think you're the you're the anti-edgeds it's how I describe you. First of all I think there's a reason why. There's a lot of things people like worry about worrying is just gotten worse over time so.

1:17:41What's that bears get slaughter bulls bulls make money is no like so I I'm not. Again I think the fiat system is is is an old system that is not going to produce returns that. People want I think crypto is a hedge to that I think I is a hedge to it but I disrupts I. From investment thing like I don't think these are things that you can invest in based on valuation I think this is all about the speed. It's all about speed that's just it and investing in speed is very different than friction and if you just take those two like I'm investing in speed I'm investing in friction and I said well which one is crypto which one is. You know what it is friction is fiat it's the intermediaries slowing things down as much as possible I want to invest in speed and you know what speed is speed is about everyone benefiting so like when you say concentration and circular finance of course there's circular finance that is called concentration.

1:18:44Seven companies control the world literally so of course they're lending to each other that is called where we ended up in now if you would invested in that circular finance back in in 2010 it didn't exist because we were we weren't concentrated we got to this point so should Nvidia be buying back stock or should they be investing in the companies that they are helping grow this whole thing. I mean I think we discussed before but like how much cash did these companies have on their balance sheet in the 2010s really twenty twenty and your point they are all just buying back stock they weren't investing in the infrastructure taking a positive view of this it's like hey they're actually taking that cash taking risk with it investing in infrastructure that we're all going to use it's a they were growing too fast and their cash buyback started to become a major part of the market let's say 2014 2015 because they were growing so fast they were. They were getting so big this is one of the problems like so when cash on the balance sheets is far bigger today than it was in 2010 and this is part of the issue when people talk about the debt I'm like you guys can create any scary stat you want it's like picking a hitter

1:20:00better seven of the last eight he's hot but of the last hundred he's seven of the last hundred so he's only hot for short amount of time he's ice cold for this you can play with statistics look how big the debt market they whenever they show these charts I know you've seen them on X like hyperscaler debt it was zero before now it's big so the image we get that's big is these big histogram polls and before we get that big and before it was nothing there's two stories here one is how do companies get so big without taking debt for the prior 10 years isn't that part of the story because the only way these things look big is based on the fact that it was so small before they have cash so if you put in how much cash they're making they were making tons of cash so I don't believe in any of this stuff in terms of this the cash on the balance sheets of corporates when you add in the liquid is we now have interest rate so cash was bigger back then or it was smaller but the growth hasn't been that big but that's because you hold treasuries now because they're actually paying you interest so when you combine them together and you take the net debt of the market in terms of the market

1:21:15in terms of the corporate debt or the the gross debt and then you put in the amount of cash they have you'd be shocked at how good the balance sheets are on the corporate sector that's why spreads are so like non moving why is CDS going up because of that circular finance concentration risk you telling me you shouldn't be buying CDS on this and you don't think other hedge funds who are long the the names the equity names shouldn't be buying CDS on these names because they're the one spending all the money for any reason they can't spend all the money the whole AI trade goes down so is in this one way let me be along the receivers and let me be instead of being short the equity because the equities at all time highs guys if you didn't notice like I don't know debt problems that have ever been in the world where the equities at the all time highs it's the junior part of the stack so if the debt is an issue shouldn't the equity be down first that's what happened in every that's what up in the bank sets what happened with the oil stocks but instead they're at the highest level ever so for all of the spenders right now rather than short the equity just go buy the CDS in the event that something happens you'll make a lot of money on it you can leverage it it's always an incredible pleasure speaking we

1:22:22enjoy I appreciate you taking time anything that we didn't touch that we should make the audience aware of we covered a lot yeah only thing I'll say is the last year I've spent all my time focusing on launching something to help educate people on AI with eventually crypto being part of it starting in since you watched the stuff that I do in my video starting in June I started telling people okay I'm going to be launching a crypto side it's going to happen in September October now I could have launched something in July why did I say September October for those who know me I work even in the summertime even though I'm in Maine this was solely about me timing things based on where I thought the agent's side would kick in and I believed it would happen later in the year so I've been talking about consumer agents as the big trade for next year that crypto would be the big trade anyone who saw me speak in Fort Lauderdale or LA or any of the places I share where I got on stage and I said the

1:23:27micron of next year is crypto so when you're looking for what's a 10 bag or 13 bag or over the course of a year it's going to be because consumer agents start getting into needing the guard rails and we'll finally there so the only thing I want people to realize the reason I'm now watching the crypto part of it which is on the site and for people who've already subscribed so they were always getting AI now they're getting crypto so they're getting two videos a week these will not be on YouTube but they're also getting the research and I bring that up because if you're a person that doesn't feel like you understand and you can't get out of the worry if you don't understand crypto and if you watch last weeks I compared it to learning cricket as a American baseball fan like cricket is a very complicated game of which I'm not going to take the time but learning a new sport that takes a lot of time you got to see the nuances crypto is going to be a very difficult learning curve for for people far more difficult than buying AMD Intel or micron you know that language this is a new world and unfortunately a lot of the crypto people are going to scare you a lot of the tradfied people are going to scare you Jordi's job is to be here and keep you from being scared

1:24:30if you don't want to be scared as somebody who watches your videos and is a subscriber it's been incredible amount of value for me personally so thank you for doing it and thank you for joining us no problem send me your thoughts on the video it's getting released Wednesday morning so why now in crypto oh I'll have to go manually buy a train ticket and watch it on the train agents aren't there yet he's a lot freaks thank you for listening to this episode of tftc if you've made it this far I imagine you got some value out of the episode if so please share it far and wide with your friends and family we're looking to get the word out there also wherever you're listening where that's youtube apple spotify make sure you like and subscribe to the show and if you can leave a rating on the podcasting platforms that goes a long way last but not least if you want to get these episodes at day early and ad free make sure you download the fountain podcasting app you can go to fountain.fm to find that five dollars a month get you every episode at day early ad free

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