739: Honest Intake, Better Boundaries, Safer Walks with Maddie Krzanowski

0:00Welcome to PetSitter Confessional, an open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter. Today, we're brought to you by our friends at Time to Pet and Tiny Paws Bookkeeping. How do we get over the fear of scary dogs? And how do we actually work with clients to make sure that we are serving them well and grow our business and connect with clients through the services that we offer connected to our local media and our campaigns that we're doing so that we can be serving people the way they need to be served with whatever kind of dogs in front of them, whether it's reactive, other behavior issues or everything in between. And to talk about this and a lot more, I am really excited to have Maddie, Chris and Aske, owner of Maddie's dog walking on the show Maddie. Absolute pleasure. I'm super excited for our conversation today. For those who aren't familiar with you, just tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do. Yeah, so thank you so much, Colin, for having me on. As you mentioned before, my name is Maddie, Chris and Aske, and I'm the owner of Maddie's

1:01dog walking, which has been named after my 11 year old self that just posted up flyers in the neighborhood. And that was the quickest thing I could think of. I've been doing this business for about a decade now. It kind of started as more of a childhood want to pet every dog in the neighborhood. And now we service areas across Sparta, Newton, Morristown, Madison, Mount Arlington, like a pack on and a couple others in between. Getting started at 11. What was what was going on there, Maddie? I don't know how I convinced neighbors to let me bring out their dogs that young, honestly. I can't know it mostly started with like, I'd have an aunt or an uncle go away and they would just need somebody to let out the dog. So my parents were probably doing it anyways, but I have always been a little bit of an entrepreneur

2:01my entire life. My cousins and I used to set up these little Christmas market type things in the living room where we would sell our crafts to our parents around Christmas and New Year's and we're all very motivated by the dollar. So when it came to dogs, I've always been a bit of a self-proclaimed dog nerd. I would watch videos on training stuff, dogs 101 on animal planet was like my Bible. I love that show. And as I got older, I just I started thinking, oh, I could probably make this into a business. So it started, it started more as just a passion and love of dogs, honestly. And then I started to realize, hey, maybe I could do something with this, whether it was kind of just a childish hope or kind of a preview into what was to come. You know, this is a conversation that happens in the industry quite a lot is I'm a professional

3:04business and I see, you know, kids off from school offering to offer pet sitting and dog walking services. I mean, so you have, this is something that you have actively lived in your own career. What are your thoughts on that on that perspective of kids being in pet care and how we as professionals can help and nurture them and encourage them? Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting. And just like you said, based on my own experiences that I look back, I actually just discovered it last year that I had little email documents that I kind of just sent back to myself. But as young as like seven or eight where I had my little email accounts with types of little business plans, which I would love to be like, oh, that's so cute. It's a little kid doing it, but it's kind of the same thing I'm doing now just in a more childish lens. So that was pretty funny to find when I thought, oh, this business I've really developed

4:07as I've gone older and curious, no, my, my eight year old self could figure that out. Um, which I mean, it's pretty cute. I can't lie. But yeah, no, I think it's really amazing, even when kids in my own neighborhood, because they've grown up seeing me either walk their dogs or walk neighborhood dogs. And a lot of them have come to me and they're like, you know, we want to do this. We want to hang out with dogs. We want to walk them and make money and all that sort of stuff. And it's kind of this, I guess two full type thing that on one hand, it's great. It's awesome. I think it's amazing to encourage children to want to pursue either some kind of job or passion or whatever. And then on the flip side, it's also, wait, we also have to remember these are kids and be careful with the type of dogs that they're allowed to handle or kind of just their responsibility on the parents too of making sure that they go with their kids. So it's not just letting a little kid go off and take on a really big responsibility.

5:13And I think when I was younger, I, you know, I knew it was a big responsibility to watch some of these pet. But as I've gone older, I've kind of thoughts myself, wow. Okay, there's a lot more responsibility in terms of insurance and bite risk dogs and God forbid a dog gets loose and all of these sort of things. So I think for some dogs, it's a really great thing when kids can get involved and be able to help out with walks and after school type stuff and everything. But there is a certain place in which I think it's both the parent and the owner's responsibility to look at their dog and say, all right, this is a good fit. This is not a good fit. And let's make sure we're keeping everybody safe in this situation. I think as professionals and as an industry, that's a lot of education that we can provide as well and help and encourage, hey, like this is, if you are trying to look to make some

6:17money, here is what it means to do this well. And here's things you need to consider. And here's how to support it. Here's when to reach out for extra help. And here's how we put this together. And that way helps keep encouraging that activity to have people come into the industry. And it's part of the healthy, like, I don't know, like a pipeline of dog walkers and pet sitters growing the industry, keeping the industry healthy. And I think it's just a beautiful way to also educate the owners, the parents, the community about what options are all out there. Right. And even I never, I never see the point in keeping anything when it comes to pet sitting. I'll be talking to people who are looking to start their own businesses and going, here's the software I use. Here's kind of some of the strategies I use because I do think it's important if somebody's going to go and pursue this type of business. They're not necessarily just going in blinds. And if they have some idea of what they should be looking out for, it can be really beneficial

7:19in kind of creating this industry into more of a regulated field. If that makes sense because it's very unregulated right now. Yeah. So when did you little business plan go from, hey, I'm 11 years old in my neighborhood into the real business that you've been running more recently? So I feel like it was kind of a mesh of a couple of different steps. So obviously one of the big pet care booms, I feel like was right after COVID when everyone went back to work and suddenly everybody had puppies and everybody had dogs and then, okay, now what do we do with these dogs? Yeah. That was probably the first point where I started accumulating some more clients. Not a crazy amount, but still a pretty good number. So that was the first part of it. And then since at that point in time I was in high school, I could only do walks mostly during the summer, sometimes after school. It kind of just depended on my schedule.

8:20And when I was going off to college, I really, you know, I figured I would do what everyone else my age does. Go to college, whatever summer job I was doing is kind of going to die off. And it's not really going to be too big of a thing. Maybe I could pick up the dog walking wherever I ended up going just because it's kind of something that you can transpose into another location most of the time. But I ended up after a semester at University of Vermont. It just wasn't for me. So I came back to New Jersey and I restarted my college career at Dre University. And by doing that, it actually allowed me to open the doors back up to expanding my business. So I would say around my sophomore, the middle of that year of college, I really started to grow my business on a larger scale that it wasn't just myself and family members that were helping me out with walks. It actually became a network of using other college students and opening an entirely new

9:24branch near my university and having that almost operate on its own just because I could start to pull some clients from there rather than just my same neighborhood space. Yeah. That you took advantage of an opportunity in front of you. And I love that, Maddie, of, hey, this is right where I am. And why don't I just try this? And I think that that kind of flexibility and our thinking of what have I tried in the past versus what can I do now, like even just hearing you talk of, oh, yeah, you can start this in a new area. You can't pick up. I know that is one that a lot of people really struggle with of, well, but I started here. It's really scary. How do I start? And you, oh, yeah, you just, you know, you can open it up anyway. I just really, I really like that perspective because it keeps, when we stay open to our ideas. It allows us to flex and adapt a lot faster than being like, well, how do I just change what I've always done? It's no, what's completely new and how do I actually try that?

10:26Right. And I think it, you know, obviously it takes a lot of courage in a way to just pick up and start something new. Like I, I can even say I would be scared if I just moved to another state right now. Yeah. And was trying to recreate my network. And it's something you have to acknowledge and be like, all right, well it could work. It might not work. I might have to recalibrate some of my services, pricing, depending on where I go. But at the same time, change is scary, but it can be beneficial if that's where you're going in the next steps of your life. And so you are in your sophomore year, you're growing, you're expanding. You've got a different branch nearby where you are. Then did you decide, okay, this is something that I actually can do more like full full time and make this my thing? That's actually kind of a funny story. So when I came back to New Jersey, I played tennis my whole life growing up.

11:27So I joined Drew's division three tennis and kind of just did it for fun on the side. But the one thing that was nagging at me the entire time was when somebody would text me and say, hey, can you do a walk? And I couldn't do a walk because I was in a match or I was at practice. And I don't know why because I feel like that would typically be someone's focus when they're in college, college, you know, your education, your sports, whatever. And I do take my education very seriously. However, it was kind of driving me nuts that all right, I'm in class four days a week and I'm playing tennis and now I can't really operate my business. So I ended up stopping and playing tennis at my school. I still do it for fun on the side and everything. And I jamed 21 credits, of course, into a single day a week. That's a choice, Maddie.

12:28Yeah, and I've done that for the past four semesters. Yeah, so that's, it's funny, but it's actually the reason that I was able to operate my business on a more full scale level because if I was commuting back and forth all the time or I was going in multiple times a week, all the sudden it starts to be hours in which I couldn't be doing walks. So I kind of just started building my schedule strategically to say, all right, it's really important to me that I obviously get my courses done. I don't want to back down in that whatsoever. But at the same time, I think I can finagle it in a way that'll now be able to do my business. Yeah, make it fit, right? Have that flexibility, right? And communicating with clients as far as like, hey, this is what I can do. This is what I can't do. That's a big part of that too. I'm just recognizing that's the first process of setting boundaries in a business is acknowledging

13:30this is physically impossible for me to do. Are you okay with that client? Yeah. Yeah, I'm fine with that. Okay, great. We'll work wonderful together. Yeah, and that's probably the funniest thing that I know that's how the clients are thinking in their heads. And sometimes I'm like, I feel bad. I can't do this one. That's totally a me issue, but it's just, it is how much I care about the clients and their pets. I do love what I do. So there is that piece of me that's always like, oh, maybe I can squeeze in this here. I'm an extra walk there. But, you know, so that's taken some time for me to now go, all right, take a chill pill. Like you got, you got enough going on right now. There, you know, for the walk you can't do, that's okay. Okay. But that's where my employees came in that now we make it work. So, so when did you, I know you also, tend to specialize or you take on the more scary breeds of dogs. Is that right? Like, when did that start?

14:33So I have, I've always been a fan of big dogs. I, you know, I grew up with a dog that was 75 pounds. He wasn't really scary by any means. He was kind of just a big puffball. But I've always grown up around larger dogs. And then when I started walking people's dogs, I kind of just noticed this trend of, I'm trying to think how to put it. Like, I obviously would want to say hi to every dog I've seen. I know we've kind of discussed this earlier on. No matter what the size is, breed, whatever. And I noticed a lot of the time that owners that had bigger dogs or almost scarier, stereotypical breeds were more reserved around letting their dogs come up to me, which of course, if they didn't want me to pet the dog, I totally respected that boundary. I'm never, you know, one of my dogs doesn't like to be pet by people. So I totally understand that.

15:34But a lot of times there were dogs that were just super friendly that were big. And maybe they jumped or something. And the owner was just worried about, you know, God forbid my dog injures you. Then there's going to be a problem because it's a shepherd. It's a pit. You know, something like that, whereas other dog owners tended not to even think about that because of the breed their dog was. So I just, I wouldn't say it was intentional that I ended up specializing more in reactive breeds and that sort of way. But those are kind of just the clients that found me because I was offering them a type of lifeline with their dog that, okay, yeah, you can go out for dinner. Yeah, you can go out on a trip because I'm totally comfortable and capable of taking care of your dog that maybe a couple walkers hasn't been comfortable with beforehand just because of their breed, just because of their size. Maybe they've got a little extra spice on them.

16:34So it's been a little. They're rocking. I figured out what I could take on. So I just made it work to that extent. Well, and as clients have those problems and they look for those solutions, they pick up on that kind of demeanor, that tone, those conversations, whenever it's a, no, this isn't the first time that I've seen this or no, this isn't the first time that I've encountered this kind of thing. That kind of connection doesn't, that's hard to do in big mass marketing and social meeting on the website. But during those conversations, that's when clients really get that sense of, this person is for me. Like they understand my pain. They understand my problem. And I want them to take care of my dog. They actually get me. And that's that where like, that's how that grows just little by little or those personal connections. Right. And I think a lot of owners and also because I am a dog trainer as well as being the

17:38owner of this business and reactivity has become what I specialize in. A lot of times owners with reactive dogs or, you know, even something as simple as their dog during a nail trim is flipping out a little bit. Owners have this perception in their heads and I understand because I've had my own dogs with their own issues. They tend to think, okay, my dog's lunging barking. This is the worst any dog has ever acted in this situation. And like it's not. So it's, I always say to people, like, trust me, if you think this is bad, I've seen worse. And I said that I'm not lying on that. I've seen so much worse across the board. So a lot of times it's just, all right, sometimes here's a quick fix and we can do that. Or sometimes it's, hey, I know a strategy. Let's implement this on the walks and then you'll start to see some results. I never want to just shut somebody down and be like, no, your dog is unmanageable and I've never seen this in my life.

18:39It's about building a connection with your clients and I mean truthfully telling them. But yeah, your dog's reactive. It's not the end of the world. Have you heard of time to pet? Chris Ann from reigning cats and dogs has this to say. Becoming a time to pet client has been a game changer for us. We can give our pet services clients real time, cloud based information. We never imagine they'd be interested in. And most importantly, to me personally, I can better manage my company and look forward to more. And not a small thing. Time to pet is responsive to my request for new speakers and modifications to existing one. If you're looking for new pet saying software, give time to try listeners of our show will say 50% off your first three months by visiting tied to bet.com slash confessional. Well, because a lot of times they carry some guilt and shame. They carry a lot of frustration. They carry because maybe they had ideas and hopes and dreams for that dog that now they don't have or they haven't been able to live the life that they've wanted to live because

19:42of their dog and they don't want to get rid of the dog. And so they feel boxed in and locked in and to have somebody come alongside and kind of hold their hand and say, hey, we got this. I, you know what? It's going to be okay. That means so much to people. And I mean, as far as like bite risk though, do you remember your first true like bite risk client that you took? Oh, oh, yeah. Okay. I didn't even know it was a bite risk client at the time of me doing my little, let me see if I can pet the dog because this is tre, like I'm 21 years old now. I still will go out of my way to go on a different path. If I see the dog just so I can either talk to the owner or talk to pet and part of it, you know, part of it now is building my business and wanting to see, all right, could I potentially get a new client out of this or whatever. But if they don't need a dog walker, I'm still sitting on the ground with the dog for like 20 minutes, just asking the owners about their dog and their history and everything and

20:45like just snuggling with the dog. So my first bite risk dog was a Shiba Chow mix. And yeah, both of those names I can see are based on them being like, oh yeah, no, I can't get to it. But the owners were very, very responsible about, you know, they'd see someone, they youbop the other way. They, and I'd seen in the past them having a little bit of difficulty walking the dog because it would react. I didn't know the dog was aggressive at the time. I just thought it was reactive. So I was kind of like, oh, let's see. I did learn later on that she was a legitimate bite risk. She has bitten people in the past. So it was confirmed bites. And these owners still were like, you know what, this is our dog. She's, she was eight or nine years old at the time. And we're not going to give her up. We're just going to live responsibly with this dog, which, you know, I totally commend them for. I think it's fantastic that they were able to do that. I pretty much, my pitch to them was saying, all right, let me help with the reactivity.

21:49Let me help with that part. I'm not an aggression trainer. So I can't guarantee that I can get rid of a bite risk or that sort of stuff, but I can help implement some walking strategies to make their lives a little easier. And so they weren't getting dragged and pulled and that sort of stuff by the dog. And we just went like that. And so I think that's what I think is, after a couple of sessions, it kind of, I guess it kind of transferred from, all right, let's do training with it to, they started to feel more comfortable with me walking their dog and having their dog and not really being worried about it. And this dog's really big trigger was, you can't put a leash on this dog. Only the owners can, which is a very big problem as a dog walker. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of a main limiting factor. Yes. And the times I did, she, I think on me, she attempted five or six different times snapping at me. And she's a dog that that warning grower, that warning snap, it's a warning to something

22:51else's coming. It's not a, you know, kind of a bluff of a growl. And then the dog is a little bit more submissive. This was a warning of, hey, don't do that again or I will bite you. Yeah. When I was first starting to walk this dog, the owners did see a need of, all right, we need somebody to walk the dog at night so she gets her proper exercise and that sort of stuff. And at the time, they had a young child, they ended up having another child during our journey together with this sort of stuff. And it just became, honestly, a lot for them to be able to walk the dog at night. So we just kind of came up with a plan of, all right, every, whatever days it was, all come, you hand me over the leash, I'll work with some of the reactivity stuff. And I'll just go take around a half hour walk and that's, that's what we'll do with it. Because that's what worked for them at that point in time. So I kind of put a little bit of the trainer had away and I just did a little bit with it.

23:53But their main focus was we want to make sure this dog gets exercise and that you feel safe. And I always think we want to make sure you feel safe as the walker. And they're really, you know, there were a couple of little times that she would snap. Most of it was my own fall of thinking, okay, maybe today we do the leash, maybe today we do this, obviously with the owner's permission. But it just got to a point that I was like, you know what, this is not something I can handle with putting on the leash for my safety and your dog safety. And it was out of the owner's comfort level. So we just did the walks and little transfer of leash and it got to the point that their dog was actually super excited to see me when I came to the door. And it's never a dog that you could go and just, you know, reach down over the head and that sort of stuff. It would just make her nervous because of previous history. However, she would run out the door, super excited, hop around, wiggle. Like I put my hands down just so she could smell them.

24:53But there was never really any petting, which kind of sounds weird sometimes when I say it to people that, yeah, I walk this dog. I don't touch her because it makes her uncomfortable, but she can come and invade my space and it's fine. And it actually got to the point towards probably a year in that if I was stopping and talking to someone, this dog used to go berserk every time and we got to a point where she would just sit and sometimes it actually just sit on my foot. I feel like, all right, this is my spot on comfortable. In that situation, it was more about building a relationship with the dog that she felt safe. And that's, you know, I think sometimes as really whether you're a dog walker or a dog trainer, you want to, for lack of a better word, fix the dog and try to make some of these issues go away. And sometimes it's just, it's not going to happen. It's not the case. And if you can give that dog an opportunity to just feel comfortable being with you and safe being with you, any owners feel comfortable with that and everybody's happy all around

25:59with that. Great. Sometimes that's all it is. And I mean, I love the experience because even though it wasn't, you know, a friendly little lab that was coming and wiggling and would go with anyone, this dog was just as excited to see me and that was a lot harder of a dog to win over. Well, so how does that change your intake process for those more quote unquote difficult, excuse me, difficult dogs or, you know, behavioral kind of issues and concerns and what's your trigger for? Well, now's when I need to step back because you did say like, hey, I'm not a bite trainer. I can do some, implement some strategies here. So what's your line for how do I come in, get good information? Then what's my flash, my flags to start saying, eh, maybe this is one isn't for me. Great. So I will say that primarily kind of the more rowdy dogs I work with, it's a lot more reactivity than aggression. I currently don't have as many aggression clients that I walk and that sort of stuff.

27:00And it's part of it's just for my own piece of mind that there's certain dogs. I know I can't handle. I'm not an aggression trainer. I can't solve every dog's problems and every owner's problems. So those I often refer to another organization that specialize in those types of dogs. However, if it's dogs that are comfortable with me kind of just coming in, getting them out, getting them in the yard, whatever, that's fine. That's comfortable. It's more when I have a dog that's actively coming at me to bite versus a dog that's giving you all the warning signals and being like, hey, please don't get in my space or else I will bite. Because that's a very different concept of aggression of this zero to 60 just going versus, all right, we're doing a growl. We're doing a snap. Now we're escalating to a bite, which I think is a really important part of the industry whether it's training or dog walking that we have to be aware of those signals that

28:05the dogs are providing for us. Because if that dog's giving you a clear, you know, even if something is small as that whale eye where you're seeing a lot more of the white in the dog's eyes and you're not really seeing the black part, it's feeling some type of way. It might be nervous. It might be trying to signal you something, but that dog is not comfortable in that moment. So there's all these little things that we need to pick up on in order to make the dogs comfortable, but we also have to make sure we're comfortable handling the dogs. So as for my intake process, it's kind of on a case by case basis. So the dog I was referring to earlier with that aggression case, it was really, really easy because these owners were so up front with everything. They told me off the bat that their dog is bitten people. They told me why they told me the things they've done in the past, the people they've worked with in the past. I got the whole write up right off the bat on that first walk. So it was super easy where I will immediately deny someone is if I walk into the house

29:07and the dogs trying to bite me. And they had told me over the phone, no, fluffy, so sweet and precious. And would never hurt a fly. And I'm like, fluffy is hanging off my jeans right now. So I will not be taking it. So a big part of it for me is owner accountability of their dogs that if they're coming up to the bat, up to the bat, I don't know, I'm saying, if they're coming to the table telling me, hey, my dog lunges. My dog snaps. My dog needs to wear a muzzle. Great. Awesome. I have a lot of dogs that take care of that. I have to put muzzles on before I take them out. I don't care. That makes me more comfortable that that dog's going to be more comfortable in space and time around other dogs or on other people. The owner has a peace of mind now. I've had owners do anything from saying I never want my dog to be on a prong collar. I feel like it's scary versus my dog needs this to be on a walk to e-colors to whatever.

30:10So so long as the owner's coming and being up front with their dogs issues, what's going on. And I do feel like a lot of owners with reactive dogs are very good about this and saying, here's kind of here's the pros and cons. And the cons list might be a little bit longer on a particular day when we see more dogs or more people. But here's what it is. Then I'm really able to help and work with those owners and create a plan for them with their dog that allows me to feel comfortable, the dog to feel comfortable. Obviously, the owner to feel comfortable with the situation. And by respecting those limitations on the dog, it actually just makes it a more comfortable experience for everyone all around. There are two things in there, Maddie. One, can I read the dog and the behavior and what they're trying to communicate to me. And then two, do I have a relationship and trust with the client? And those two things really should be foundational to everything that we do of if you get into

31:15that situation and you're trying to start the dog or cat or whatever and you're like, I have no idea what this dog is telling me. There is something going on here and I have the foggiest clue. It could be that I don't have enough knowledge, experience or training in order to take this on. It could also be that the dog is just bad at giving signals and cues or it goes straight to one over the other and skips several of those steps, making it a little bit more unpredictable for us. Again, if I struggle with that, I need to back off. If I love how you ended up focusing on how straightforward is the client. Does that owner take accountability for this? Do they are they up fourth and fourth right about what their dog is like? How they're reacting, what their needs are, what the history is because if you don't have that, the rest of the service, it's all up in the air. Like you just don't have anybody to be working with and partnering with on that care and that routine. And then it's kind of going, Hey, you weren't truthful about the behavior. What else? What else aren't you truthful on?

32:15And that's never a good spot to be with any client interaction or partnership that you're trying to build. Yeah, and I mean, look, mistakes happen sometimes where something will happen, whether it's a bite or something else that the owner wasn't aware of that the dog might do. Sometimes it's something like that that it's a freak accident. And sometimes there's a little bit of a surprise later on like, Oh, yeah, he does that sometimes. Whoopsie. But yeah, I really feel like the most important part is come to me with how your dog is, not how you want them to be because then we can work specifically on your dog, not somebody else's dog or not, you know, where you're hoping to be in a year. And if, you know, if you want me to help you get there in a year, we can try to get you there in a year. But come in with how your dog is right now, how they're with strangers. I always do meet and greets. I mean, I feel like most people in the industry do now that I go and I meet the dog beforehand

33:18and everything. But the same goes for any of my employees. No one's allowed to touch a dog until they've met the dog beforehand because who knows, maybe you're just given a weird vibe that day and the dog just doesn't like it or sometimes the classic men versus women type, feel that a dog will feel more comfortable with a woman and less comfortable with a man. So, you know, they're all just important factors and make sure we get to know the dog before the service even begins. It's all about protecting yourself at that point and that goes whether you are working or trying to focus on more behavioral needy pets or these special cases or if you're just trying to go after the run of the mill, whatever, whatever, golden retrievers, it's about protecting ourselves. I mean, do you see, how are you doing that? I mean, if you are taking on these kind of cases as far as like higher risk with insurance and pricing and these kind of specific things, what's that part of your business look like? So, I mean, I feel like a lot of it is just knowing what I can handle.

34:18So as I mentioned before, I do have other people that work for me and none of them will ever touch a bike risk dog. Except my mom with a really tiny doxan, which is kind of funny. That's the only bike risk dog we have right now that somebody else will touch. No mom. It's mom. But yeah, no, I won't, if I know there's a dog that there's some kind of big risk with either a bike or I just feel like the dog will be too much for somebody to handle. Often, I don't have somebody else handled the dog aside me. Yeah. Now, in the case of maybe bigger reactive dogs, it's kind of a case of all right, who's able to walk this dog and physically able to? And I do believe a lot in taking care of yourself to be able to take care of the dogs. Okay. And I'm a very big gym person. I love lifting weights. I actually jokingly say that sometimes I can engage if I need to be lifting more of how

35:22much I feel the dogs pulling. I give I feel too much of a pull then I probably need to go back to the gym. Yeah. Sometimes it just depends. Like I have some student athletes that work for me and I'll make sure that they're paired up with a stronger dog in that type of way. So I know that the dog is in capable hands or I'll have, you know, it's just based on how much that person can handle and with my employees, I'll say, all right, what's your weight limit? Do you feel comfortable with X, Y and Z pulling dogs? All this type of space because, you know, maybe one person just doesn't feel comfortable with a dog lunging and another one is like, all right, whatever I can muscle my way through. So it really is just dependent on the dog, the specific scenario. Again, aggression, all me. I don't want to put anybody else in that situation. But yeah. Yeah. Do you, this just question, do you charge more for those special case, super needy or

36:28behavioral cases that you take on for those walks versus the maybe more standard run of the mill walks? I actually don't. And the reason I don't do that is because I'm taking on cases that I feel comfortable taking on. So I don't want to make somebody feel like, okay, your dog's too much. So now I'm going to up charge you. And now there's a risk involved. That's not worth it to me. I want to come in and say, all right, I'm capable of handling your dog. And it's just like any other walk. And if there are situations like, let's just say if I'm walking two dogs at once and I don't feel safe having both of them at one time, I'll say to the owner, hey, I can't do both at once. So you're going to have to book two separate walks. And then that's where I guess an extra charge would come in that it's, you know, I can't do two at once. So now I got to do one at a time because you're paying for my time in those individual slots rather than, oh, you're just going and you're letting them both out.

37:29Anyways, like, no, it's a time slot. So it's more that would be the most drastic measure. I'd have to go. But for the most part, I just try to take what I'm capable of handling. And if I'm not, I just try to be honest with the owners about it and say, look, I'm not your girl for this one. You got to find somebody else. I'll help find somebody else. Yeah. You know, we got to make sure your dog's safe in this situation. Running a pet care business means your days are full of clients, staff, scheduling and solving everyone else's problems. But when it comes to your money, are you actually paying yourself first at tiny fuzz bookkeeping there certified profit first professionals who help get pet sitters, dog walkers, groomers, trainers and other pet care business owners better bookkeeping systems that support real profit, not just busy bank accounts. They help you understand where your money is going. They create healthier cash flows and they make profit a regular part of your business.

38:30Visit tinypausebookkeeping.com to learn how they help you put profit first. Yeah, it's an interesting conversation to have and to think about is how do I price services for the fit of the solution to the client? And what does that look like? And what specialties do I have? Do I not have expertise? Do I have to? I don't have. Where else is that built into my business to be able to take on an absorb disease, these kind of things? I just think that's something that we, like the industry is kind of thinking about now, I think more so than ever, is where does this fit in with comparing one service to the next and how do I put all this package together to say, hey, here's a solution for you, and what's built into that? And I think that's just something like, as business owners, we have to be hyper aware of to go, where am I in my local market? What am I taking on and how does that all fit in together? Right. And I mean, a lot of these the times, and I've known this just from having conversations

39:33with my clients, they're just happy to find somebody who is going to take their dog. Sure. And as harsh as it may sound and they'll say the same exact thing, it'll, you know, it's taken a while or they haven't been able to go on trips or they'll have to board their dogs and they don't really want to because of the behavioral issues and that could just amplify them for that specific dog. So a lot of the time, you know, I feel like the animal industry has almost become like the childcare industry a little bit, not necessarily our pet owners looking at the pricing and going, whoa, you know, 20 bucks, 30 bucks for a walk anymore. It's more of, okay, this person is really good. Yeah. I trust them. And that's more what it's based on. There's been a lot more differentiating language used between businesses than ever before.

40:35I think even 10 years ago, the overall industry was basically, yep, we do dog walking thumbs up or we do pet sitting. Okay. And now we're doing more. I do reactive dog walking. I deal with behaviorally needy dogs and walking and I do special needs cats and I knew there's a lot more descriptives that we're descriptive that we're putting on around our services. And I think that's what helps lead that discussion with clients instead of saying how much it's, who do I trust? Jessica, I love that you brought that up, Maddie. Yeah. And I mean, even I've had the conversation within, honestly, my classroom spaces because I'm in the English major, so I do a lot of writing. So I actually transfer a lot of my dog and training stuff into a combination, I'm actually currently doing it for my thesis. But I enter that conversation a lot in which we're talking about this kind of generational change in pet ownership.

41:35And even thinking, I mean, honestly, our challenge you to think about your child's the dog and go, all right, well, what do we do with this dog? Like, my dog was very well taken care of, don't get me wrong, but he was so chill, we didn't train him. Like, he just came everywhere with us and that was kind of it. We go on vacation, we drove him off my uncle's house or a friend could watch. I mean, it was so easy. And now I feel like now there's this emphasidus on, all right, there's dogs that aren't so easy. And I didn't know that until I got my first dog after which he actually is reactive. So that's kind of how I branched into the space originally when I was so young of going, okay, my dog got bit by another dog. Now he's barking and lunging at these other dogs. What happens? Right. And I think that's the rabbit hole that a lot of dog owners with reactive dogs end up going down because it's kind of just this big question mark of what happened to my dog? Yeah.

42:36And then they then that just opens up a whole lot more things and that thankfully there's a lot more resources now than there ever happened for those owners. This is, now this is a heavy place to be in as a business. I mean, interacting with clients who are struggling with these things, you're like, I can't imagine how emotional we just we do not take on these kind of cases as a business. So this is not something that we do. However, we have no more difficult or more frustrating situations that come up. But if you're dealing with us and you're like, this is my jam, I don't know, Erbeer, you mentioned your Jim Rat, you know, tennis player, you, you big into self care here. Why do you think that is so important to be involved in and have in your life and in running your business? You're going to burn out otherwise. Yeah, that's the reality. I, I actually just had foot surgery two months ago in order to kind of maintain what I'm

43:38doing because I kind of got to the point that, and by no, follow my own, I'm just a very active person. So I had a weird foot thing that happens. And I need to get it solved and everything so that I could go back to doing my business. But even through that, there was so much in the past year about, all right, this emphasis on, I'm go, go, go on my feet all the time. But then there's also that sort of pain. So I have to prioritize breasting and that sort of stuff, which in the past, it was more of, all right, let me just keep going as much as I can to build up my stamina as much as I can so I can keep going doing as many walks, all that sort of stuff. But where the gym comes in and tennis and other sports I do and that sort of stuff, it's my release, like it's what I need to step away from the dog walking wall. I love it to go, all right, this is my time for myself.

44:40This is my hour or two hours of just doing my thing, not thinking about work, not really thinking about anything else. And it allows me to continue doing everything else with my business that I need to. And even the self-care aspect and it's so important, especially when you have these early mornings, late nights, and I'm sure you know from your own business that usually there's a week or two weeks during the year where everyone goes on vacation at the same time and you are really tired by the end of those two weeks. So it's just important to take time for those other activities and stuff that you enjoy outside of work and especially in this industry because I feel like it with a standard job, you know, you get your standard nine to five and you're done, you're done, you go home and then you have your period of time until you go back. This is like, all right, seven a.m. nine a.m. nine, 15 a.m. somehow and then like you go through

45:49the whole day and then somebody's asking you, can you sleep at my house at the dog and you're just, you're exhausted by the end of it. Yeah. You don't do it right. So it becomes this kind of at least for me that I obviously want to grow my business and keep it going and going and going but at some point when you hit a wall whether it's mentally or literally physically in my case that I've had to take a lot of my walks and give them to other people. I really only started going back to work a little bit this week which, you know, taking the time off has definitely been interesting of that other side of the self care aspect of just taking that time and really I guess focusing on myself a little bit more than I typically would because I'm usually at everyone's back in call for a walk and that sort of stuff. So even though I'm still operating that business and making sure that it happens, walk them a

46:52little bit out for the count, it's kind of provided an opportunity to go, all right, what do I need right now since I can't use my typical physical outlets of going for a run or going to the gym and I will say some days it's still kind of hard because all I want to do is, you know, go out and walk but, you know, it's given me the opportunity to spend a lot of time with family and go out and do a bunch of things that I normally wouldn't have done. So it's been an interesting chapter for the self-care journey in that respects. You said that, you know, you're going to hit a wall and I think at some point we all will whether that is sudden foot surgery, whether that is an accident and illness or whether that is a mental aspect of emotionally, I just cannot keep going down where I'm headed right now. And I think a lot of people, I know myself included, especially early on in the, how do I balance this? My mindset was always, well, I need to do self-care so I can take on more and I need to rest so I

47:55can do more and it was always this, my ankle was always do more for some reason, Maddie. And it wasn't like, I need to take care so I can sustain and I need to, I need to, what, you know, just the nature of a business owner a little bit though. Isn't it that though? I don't know. So it's sort of an extent. Like, I don't know, I feel like, either than the obvious physical limitation currently, it's the other thing that people don't talk about with pet sitting is the emotional toll it could take. Like I've been in this game for a decade and I started with a lot of clients that were kind of dogs and they're, you know, 3D, 4-year-old range. It's been a tough two years in that regard of a lot of senior dogs, a lot of stuff happening. And honestly, when I talk to my client because they let me know when their dogs have passed if they've had to put them down or that sort of stuff, I cry like constantly when they text me that.

48:55And I don't necessarily know if that's healthy or not because they're not my dogs. But I don't know, you just take on certain attachments, especially to certain animals that you've cared for for years and years and years and they do become like your own pet in a sort of way. Well, I was talking with somebody who used to be in the veterinary world and they have their own challenges and struggles with mental health and burnout and fatigue. And she had come into the dog walking and pet sitting world saying, I thought it would be better. She said, Colin, it's way worse. In the veterinary field, I may see that dog twice a year. I may see that dog once a year. And this, in this world, I see that dog five times a week for years and years. Or I'm sleeping over at their house or I'm helping them with integrating the new baby into the family or the new move in these life stages. And that you're right, Maddie. Like this is, we are a lot more integrated into that. And I cry over a lot of our clients because we just do it. They're part of

50:00it. And we don't, in part of it, I walk into that home and you get that gut punch of, there used to be three dogs here. And now there's only two. Oh my gosh. Or you go to make that little movement of where you used to do it the leash, but that dog's not, we're not here anymore. We're not grabbing that leash off the hook anymore, but it's still there. It's all these little reminders. And that for that part of, yeah, cry with the clients. Talk to people about it. Write those letters, you know, have moments where you can just grieve and you can remember them. Look at photos. That's part of how we can embrace that aspect. Absolutely. And instead of what tends to happen is, well, I'm really busy. So I just got to bury this and I'll get to that later. I mean, I feel like you can never fully bear. I mean, I'm sure some people can, but it's just, you know, different people, different ways they operate. I can't. I need that time to, and of course, it's different. Like the dog you see once a year versus the dog you see four times a week, it's going to be a different impact. And I even, I'm curious about your friend

51:04who you spoke to who was in the veterinary medicine world, because I was also a veterinary technician for five years. Okay. And I kind of made the switch into my business simultaneously while doing this because I, you know, I just did it part time. But even for me, it's kind of, there's parts that are harder and parts that are easier and to your friends comment of it's so much harder with the dog to see out for the absolutely a thousand percent. But the one part that I do love in the pet sitting realm so much more than the veterinary space is working at a vet clinic. The hardest part about because I sat with youth in Asia and that sort of stuff and everything. And that, that was hard. But the hardest part was seeing people who didn't really care about their pets and had neglected animals and that sort of space. So I do find it refreshing that where I am now, I really don't have

52:04to see that anymore. And I don't see cases of neglect because these are all people that really care about their pets who are seeking a professional service to take care of them. Right. So I feel like it's twofold, you know, and just like any job, there's always going to be its pros and cons. And I definitely think of that as one of the pros of switching from the veterinary medicine field, which I actually was pursuing at University of Vermont. So that's kind of how I got into that whole thing. And then taking a step back and going into the dog walking realm of all right, these dogs are loves, these dogs are cared for. This is refreshing. So Maddie, you've been running the business full-time, going to business, going to school full-time, with for English. And what's the future look like for Maddie and Maddie's dog walking? I, I guess I've been getting that question a lot, especially lately because I'm just finishing up my undergraduate degree this fall actually.

53:10But I don't know, I feel like I just want to keep this business going as long as possible. I love what I'm doing. It's not work to me. I genuinely maybe not the seven AM ones, but I genuinely enjoy getting up in the morning. I'm going to do my walks. And I actually just did an article for, it's for this upcoming kind of gig economy textbook that's coming out, I think next year. And the title that my clients are always happy to see me mostly because I have treats. And the reason I bring this up is, and it's true, like you walk in the door and this dog is so happy to see you every time. And I'm sorry, but if you go into an office, your manager is not happy to see you every single day. It's just impossible. So it's just, it's so nice being able, I love being outdoors, I get to be outdoors doing this. I, you know, the dogs are so happy to see you every time you go in.

54:15And it's just, I don't know, there's just a sense of fulfillment. So whether or not it maintains as a full-scale operating business or this is something I do as a side gig as I go into the grown-up world or whatever, I, I do feel like it's a piece of me at this point. And maybe it's because I walk around the neighborhood with my name on my shirt all the time. So people, I do this. Yeah. Or for, you know, just because I've been doing it so long and it is my comfort. But I don't know, necessarily what I have next in store for my business. So instead of stressing about it or worrying about where it's going to go next, I'm just going to write it out and see where we go. I love that. And I'll just, we'll schedule our next interview for two years from now to see how things are going. Okay. On the books, Maddie, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show today, encouraging us to take the time to get to know our clients and go slow with those anxious and behaviorally needy dogs and walking us through a bit of your intake and also encouraging

55:16us to take care of ourselves as well for the long to haul. I know people are going to have questions and want to get connected and follow along with all your cool stuff that you're doing. So how best can people get connected? Hey, well, I just want to say thank you so much, Colin, for having me. I really, really appreciate it. So the easiest way just to reach out to me or typically through my Instagram, you can DM me on there. I also have additional contact info on there. Other than that, I also have sources available on Facebook and YouTube. Maybe TikTok's coming up soon. We will see if I have a moment in the day to do that. But yeah, no, thank you guys so much for listening. Awesome. Thank you so much, Maddie. Thank you, Colin. I love how Maddie said to come to me with how your dog is, not how you want them to be. It's a fantastic reminder that the life of a pet and the journey that they are on with their owner is just that. It's a journey. And we are meeting and connecting with them at various points along that and no two people come to us in

56:21the same spot. It also means that we have to help our clients set the proper expectations for what it's going to be like working with us. Whether that's a client who's looking for more energy to release with their dog or better leash manners or whatever that is for your client. Make sure that they understand we are going to work with the dog in front of us. And we're not going to worry about what it's going to be like in the future. We have to start here. We have to be honest with ourselves. We have to be honest with the limitations that they're facing, the struggles that we're going to have and the legitimate work required to make progress through whatever we're working on. You might not be thinking that you do training. Colin, I'm not a trainer. I promise you that through your actions, through your systems, through your consistency, you are training. Training is nothing but learning new things and developing systems and habits. That's what happens with the dogs,

57:23the cats, the parents, the turtles, whatever we interact with. And the better that we understand that and more importantly, the more that we can help communicate that to our clients, the better everyone will be. We want to thank our sponsors today, Tine to Bet and Tiny Paws Bookkeeping for making this show possible. And we really want to thank you so much for listening. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week and we'll be back again soon.