672. New LHIM Churches in Kenya (Andrew Ondari)

0:00Hey there, I'm Sean Feningen and you are listening to Restatudio, a podcast that seeks to recover authentic Christianity and live it out today. As many of you know, I'm not only the host of this podcast. My main job is working for Living Hope International Ministries, which is a network of churches, home fellowships, and individuals seeking to make authentic disciples of Christ. Now, in addition to my local church responsibilities as a pastor, I also travel on behalf of LHIM to visit churches within our network, help start new ones, and affiliate with existing churches that share the same beliefs. This brings me to Andrew Undari of Kise Kenya. He grew up Mormon, but eventually came to question the legitimacy of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. After he decided the Bible was the only book he needed for faith and practice, he came across our ministry website, LHIM.org.

1:03As he studied the content on the site, he came to believe in the Kingdom of God coming on earth, hell as destruction rather than eternal torment, and Jesus as the human Messiah instead of a God-bent. Having felt the call to ministry, he started a church on a piece of property near his home and began connecting with other pastors in his area. A team of us went to visit him a few weeks back, and while I was there, I recorded this interview. I hope you enjoy hearing his story and learning about what incredible opportunities are opening up in Kenya. Here now is episode 672, new LHIM churches in Kenya with Andrew Undari. Hello everyone, I am here with pastor Andrew Undari of Kise Kenya. And it is my great pleasure to talk to him today and hear about his story of faith, his journey of faith.

2:08Welcome pastor Andrew, so glad to talk to you today. Oh thank you, thank you for coming all along to meet Singha again in Kenya. I really appreciate for everything, for taking your time. Since it is a blessing from God that is not easy, but actually, I really appreciate for everything. First of all, my name is Anjondani, I am a professional state, and I am married, I have got three kids, one daughter and also one child. Both are schooling and I have a wife, I don't feel older, and I was born in the early days of faith, we started this all along sometimes when I was young. My family and my father also, I was a church leader, so we have been working in church and it is a great time that now I came into contact with pastor Shon, with now came to check on us and also to help us improve on our spiritual journey, we are being at the things that are on in our churches.

3:20Yes, thank you. So growing up, you were of what form of Christianity? You were raised as a Christian? Yes, I was raised as a Christian. Tell us about what it was like for your dad and his journey and what kind of Christian you were. Thank you. My dad is always afraid to be a wife, and he used to be a church leader under the church of Christ, temple note, and that was where I grew up. Before that, we used to be attending SDR, seven deadwaters such as Uriah and the southern ends, we came into the church of Christ through my father, we were sitting there. Let me clarify then, so seven day Adventists, many people don't understand what that is, that is a Christian group that believes in keeping the law of Moses and keeping the food laws and keeping the Sabbath, and they are not familiar with the church of Christ of which you speak.

4:37Because this church of Christ, you said church of Christ temple came for notes. Temple note, okay. So church of Christ temple note is a Mormon church, right? Yes. And so in that church, what did they teach? Okay, mostly in temple note, in church of Christ, they do teach about Jesus Christ, they do also pray the Bible, and the same time, the only thing that they do also learn a lot from the book of Moses, okay. Yeah, Uriah, some chakras, they are explaining maybe those who wrote that book, they will inspect through the Holy Spirit, and they came to write more, what the Bible was not having, okay. So they believe that the book of Moses plays more, actually I'm missing in the Bible, so they are using it as an another, as an extra book. They can be used to that one as a Bible in its times.

5:40So when you were drawing up, you were seven day of Venice, then you were church of Christ temple lot, and then you went off to school. Yes. What did you go to school for? What did you study? I studied in my high school, that's for Jens Jena, I went to a college, I studied teaching as a primary teacher, and I lived that for three years, from Baza College, then I came out as a professional teacher, teaching Swaini, Meyakena. Now, so people understand Swahili is a very dominant language in Kenya, but in Kisees where you live, the language is different, it's Kisee language. Yes. So you are teaching people Swahili so that they will have more opportunity for a business, or why would somebody study Swahili?

6:42Okay, Swahili is our national language, and Kisee is my tribal language. As we know, that Kenya has worked for three tribes and different language groups, so I belong a Kisee tribe. Okay. So I went to school now to learn this Swahili language, so I would be teaching Swahili, because it's a national language, so it's a subject of his own. And this, under the Karikana Mokernah, Swahili is compulsory. And English and Swahili, and one sounds like a chemistry, biology, or physics, but it is a common, it's compulsory when other international exams. Okay. So that's how you learn English was by going to school. Yes. Okay. And tell us about how you were questioning the Book of Mormon while you were in college.

7:45Thank you. So, when this idea came to me when I was still in high school, we believe that I've been reading the Bible since I was young. And now when my father came to this religion of Chaturkha's temple, so he introduced us into that religion, where I told him to react this book called the Book of Mormon. So my question was, when I was now all enough to understand things on the religion, so that's why I was reading this extra book called Book of Mormon. And yet I've been reading the Bible. That's why it's not only a book which was written by a spiritual researcher, so let us all of us in all. So this book called the Book of Mormon, or this book. And why does it, why this book has not been there when all these years and the past week came in that book, it was a sweet.

8:47Now, so I was asking, now this is just a sweet. Yeah. Okay, such questions came into my mind. And when I was also reading the Bible, there's other things like, now maybe the names, the Bheb, the Book, the Bheb, and the Bheb, and the Holy Spirit, the same chapter there, Mosiah, Mundo's. So I was wondering all that, why was it that day that book? Yeah. And what did you conclude? So after I took some time, I took me almost Julia. I stopped going to church. Just in church of Christ, I'm going to start figuring out what I was supposed to do. Actually, I stopped going there and I took my time praying to God. So I can get inspired what I'm supposed to do. What's, or should I be going, which I'm supposed to go, what time, so I can get.

9:49Clearly, what goes on is going to be my life. Okay. And what did you decide? Now I came to, to decide I'd have to come and be checking on other sets because I know I was now a corner. I'm not to make a clear division of what I'm supposed to be doing in my family. And also, I've got also the school, also, also leaving from my community. So I was taking all the, what I could do for them, which can benefit them, you know, they are the spirit right? So I came to learn about living up international news space, which I've been going through, the teachings they are online. Because I'm like, doing reading, I don't know, studying water, I'm not around. So it took me some time to learn all that until I came to conduct a massage. Do you remember what year it was that you came across the LHIM website?

10:51Yes, I remember that when it's now four years back, four years back. Yes. And, you know, do you remember what you were searching for that led you to find that website? Sure. Okay. So, as I was learning, according to the Bible, what I was thinking about before, I came to understand that the Kingdom of God will come on earth. Okay. Yeah. So, when I went through the... How did you learn that? How did you see that for yourself? Okay. From the Bible, what is that for? And I came to meet that in the LHIM, I also came to know that that's what exactly would be our teaching. Okay. Yes. So, learning that instead of going to heaven, the Kingdom of God is coming to the earth is something you learn just from reading the Bible. Yeah. I started reading from the Bible. Okay. And then I came to learn living up teaching. I also found the same.

11:55Okay. And the same was being taught there. So, it took me my time to read and understand well how this used to happen. So, that's the information I'm looking for. And not only that, and also we had this issue of maybe the health. Yes. Praise the Lord. Yes. We get that in charge of Christ, we are being taught that we love everlasting fire, which will be there for the rest of the life of those who are sinners. Now, when I went to reading the book of Revelation, which was given for a punishment from those who are sinners that we knew people to have these everlasting fires. So, when I also came to live in God, I also found that these were the Bible telling us, so I came to God, these were the looking ones. So, it makes me to get in deep and land from living up there. Okay. So, you came to see that the wicked will be destroyed in the lake of fire instead of being tortured day after day.

13:01Yes. Okay. And what else did you learn? I also learned about, we have also been here much that on the other side, excited the very body that God is the father. And we have given us Christ his son, and also the Holy Spirit which, meaning that these are not one to that, everybody asks about responsibility and the powers, which we don't need so we just over, or we just see anybody. So, like now that's what I read from the Bible. So, another sentence, when I came to live in it from living up, I came to the same teachings, which also means that we don't have maybe all the father, the son of the Holy Spirit, as one. Okay. Yes. They are separate. Yes, they are. And the father is the only true God. And Jesus Christ is human Messiah, the son of God, the Messiah.

14:01And when you learn these truths, did you tell anyone else? Yes. Who did you tell? Thank you. So, each and every step I was making, like now, I've been to know that the Kingdom of God will come here on earth. And this what I tell, it took me some time to understand it well. And also, so, it made the soul, this thing I have not made these, I'm not the only person who is going to leave. Because I left by others who also being taught only that all of us will go to heaven, going to stay there in heaven. So, I came to meet my, they also do some things to what we were all sitting in, set of Christ's temple of. So, I came to tell them the same information. And at the same time, more sad friends from high school, and the same colleges, who also they believe that heaven will come on earth. Yes. So, I also take a view. So, have you read this Bible verses and all these things that you need to be ever in a book that we are going to be, heaven will be on earth instead of us going to heaven?

15:08Because no one, the Bible tells us that no one will go to heaven except the one who knows the world, except the one who came to them for our sins. Yes. Who is Jesus Christ? So, I came also to tell also those friends of mine, I also do some things to my family, such with my mother from the one family I stopped going there. So, that's it, people I made. And how did you become a pastor? Okay. I was, okay, this thing of the kind of leading a church, it was, it was a home from, yeah, home from the same time. Since I was here, and at the same time since my family also was a Christian family, we grew up knowing that God is our father. Yes. He was like his son. So, I came to learn all these things. And I was being inspired to learn, okay, even at school where I was attending, I was to be leading Christian club.

16:12You got some, you know, when in school, we got different clubs for the Christians. Yeah, that I was chosen as a leader there to help them, for my entire four years when I was in the next school. And also when I also, so in primary school. So, I did this feeling that it was inside me, it was something which was inside me. And once those ones, the friends, and also some of them, I was engaged in teaching and learning with them. I came to, to be teaching, I also took into them about the Bible. So, I came to the, I can do this. I can also teach, I'm also afraid for them. And other things. So, especially when I also, I believe in God because I remember both of the times, I could do this on my family. But when I took time, before God prayed, I was only a people, actually I used to see God doing things in a different way.

17:16And in a good way, in my life, almost all of our family life. So now, the leaders, those church leaders, who my mates, the other ones, who came up with a prayer together. And they said that all, and on that, we were going to be calling that time, you need to lead. So, that's how I came to, what year was that? The VBR was, it was four years back. And members, that's one of the, you know, underneath the leaders, I'm also on. 2022? Yeah, 2022, it's from 2021. And when I was still teaching one of the sports here, in 2016. Okay. And as you began teaching the Bible, you were gathering with people. Where were you meeting? Were you meeting in your home or your rented facility?

18:18Or where were you meeting? Okay. Okay. It was depending, because at times you can meet in a social place. Wherever I feel that's not in the eye, it's time I need to teach this thing, what I'm doing, what I'm doing. Okay. Okay. Mostly now we used to organize our meeting at my own. Okay. Yes, that's where we used to organize the meeting there during the weekend, at the time of the meeting this winter. And also we need, at the time I remember sometimes, but it used to rent a place in a certain room. We are more than maybe 20. We make there, we teach. I teach them what I know was from the Bible. And over time you wanted to build a church. Yes. Tell us about that. Oh, thank you. So it is now 3 am, since now I was, I now become a pastor.

19:18Now we had a church which was not well, maybe actually it was not a good condition, maybe to meet. So we had to engage some of my friends, they were able to contribute some small amount once we been engaging it. So we had to, we took a report, a small piece of land. It was 50, by Android, 50 feet. 50 feet? 50 feet by Android. Yeah, okay. So that's a church, although it was small, now after some time we know that there are many and also there's a activity which in the church is what we were supposed to be doing. So that's when we came with an idea to contribute some to the fans. The money to get a certain piece of land to make. So are you saying that that building is still under construction?

20:35Yes. And it has walls. Does it have a roof or no? That's not a time interval. So it has the walls but you need to build the roof and put the windows. And this is a permanent structure or semi-permanent structure. Oh, it is a permanent structure. Yes. Now in Kenya, there is a rainy season. And when it's the rainy season, it's very hard on the buildings. And so that's very important that your church building will be able to withstand the rains and to protect the people. Yes. Is that true? Yes. Okay. Very good. And what is the number of people who are meeting at the Omurangamu church now? Currently, I'm 74. I'm 74 members. How many children? We have 43 children.

21:37We have different size. We have different age. We have different size. We have different age. We have different age. So would we add those two numbers together? Or are the 43 part of the 74? Okay. So 74 total? Yes. And of the 74, 43 are children. So you have many children? Yes. We have 43 children. So we have the number of children. Okay. We have to make the number to be 75. Very good. So tell us about your vision for the future. What would you like to see happen in your ministry as time goes forward? Okay. Okay. I have this dream since I started this dream, all this. That's since now the church is growing.

22:38And you've got this young impression in our church. And also, the community where I am, we need to see this start growing. And we need to see this. That's when we got this piece of land, which is the other one, which is 200 by 100 square feet, where we needed to construct that structure and our Bible collides inside that compound. Okay. Yes. That's our dream. What will the Bible college do? What is the goal? Okay. The goal is to teach the innovation in our community what the Bible lives them to do most. And at the same time, we were told for you in our church, whom we want to go to growing, how the Bible lives them to grow, to come and take over from us, and spend those nights. We've constantly used the church of ours

23:39to be there for the coming days. Okay. We were just talking about the idea of going to Bible college and our battery died. And our van was repaired. Sure. So we had to go and visit the church. Okay. And that was a couple of days later, we're at the Messiah Preserve, Maury Messiah, where we have been on safari today. Sure. Yes. So we're in a tent. You can see it's a little different setting than before. And we are continuing our conversation. Yeah. Please tell us about your idea about the Bible college and what college is in your country. Oh, thank you so much. Okay. And I, an idea, or even before some time's back, when we started our church, and our feeling that,

24:40and our core, which I believe was a new spirit, talking through me, it was all that, that I was feeling that, we need to have a Bible college in my place. So as we can get our youths, get trained there, because in our community, we don't have a student training in Bible college. And now, especially that we've got enough materials from living up. I hope that one will help us a lot to establish our college, which enable our youths in the church, to have their many. And we need our church to be there in the future, not something that we need, it is there for a short period of time. So I think this Bible college will be training our youths, and also the youths from the community. And another person will be able, and we will feel that this need for him, to learn more about the Bible,

25:41and more so to know more about God. All right, very good. So let's shift gears, and let's talk about how the visit has gone, and what we have done on this visit. Wow, thank you so much. First of all, we really appreciate so much for your coming, and it was really encouraging, especially to our church, and not only our church, but also to the old community. You remember, in the first time we went to Nakaach, you were there, you knew that there was no church there, and you see, when the people waited for us, until late evening, we were there, I think 6 p.m., and we found people waiting us there. Meaning that this information reached them, or reached them before, and they were eagerly waiting and see, how we are going to, what kind of message are we going to give them?

26:42Okay, all the other, that's expectations. And after that, you also went to Mochora, also we also noticed the same thing, and the way we welcomed, and at the same time, the way we carried our activities during the day, all over so, to be precise, we were really blessed for you to be here, especially to the, not only in our churches, but also to the entire community. You noticed, even in our church, we had some other, other members who were not coming in our church, they visited us, they came, and they were really happy when they see you, and when they are there, you are coming. So, actually, it was a blessing for us, and it showed love, and commitment you did, and at the same time, the sacrifice you've been making,

27:42and also before that, even the books you printed before you came, all those ones encouraging us a lot, especially the leaders, and also to the churches, and the churches we visited. Yes. You said that the Neocache Church did not have a church building. I remember we did go into a building, was that a church building, or was a house? Yeah, that was a church building. What I meant was that the nearby, the Neocache, there was no any church except that one. Oh, okay. Yes. So, we visited the Neocache Church, Neocache, and Rung Rungamu. We visited the Neocache. And also, we went to... Rungamu? Okay, no. Yes. Neocache, Neocache, and Rungamu. So, four different churches. Exactly. And your church is the Rungamu Church.

28:43Yeah, it's the Rungamu Church. And that is the biggest of the churches. Yeah, that's the biggest of the churches. And it is a church building that used to be 50 feet by 100 feet. Yes. But you have outgrown that. Exactly. And so, you have now begun construction on 100 feet by 200 feet. Sure. Size building. Yeah. You have the walls completed. Yeah. Brick and mortar. Yes. And you do not have the roof. Yeah, we don't have the roof. And the windows and the doors. Okay. Yes. And instead, you have rented a large tent to go inside the walls to serve as a temporary roof. Exactly. Very good. Yeah. And what else should we say about our... Oh, the other thing we should mention is that before we came out this way to Kisee, we started in Nairobi.

29:44Sure. And when we were in Nairobi, we went to the United Bible Society. Yes. And we purchased many Bibles. Yeah. And these Bibles were in different languages. Yeah. Tell them about the different languages. Oh, thank you so much. Okay. First of all, in each and every step we move, we do appreciate so much because it is a blessing to us. And when we went to... At the first stage, we were in Nairobi. We purchased the Bibles of different language groups in Kenya. Many of that. These language groups, we added to purchase the Kisee Bibles. We had to purchase the... In my... Masai Bibles. We had also purchased the... A... A... A... A... A... A... A... A... A... And also, we purchased the English one. Six languages. Yeah, six languages. It's incredible. Yes. And also remember, we purchased also the Luya.

30:46Ah. That way it's seven languages. Yes. Wow. Yeah. So, as we have gone from church to church, these four different churches, we bring the Bibles with us. Yes. And you select out of those Bibles, how many to give to that pastor? Yes. And the pastor will decide who receives the Bible. Sure. And we do this each time. And the people were always very happy to receive the Bibles. Yes. Because it is... It is rare. Yeah, it was hard to acquire. It's expensive. Sure. Like, no, the Bibles were purchased actually. They went to those churches and a seawitness there, but I'm sure they were not enough. Yes. And everybody in the church wanted, oh, please, can I get one? But we are just giving this specific, because we believe that in each and every family, when they get one Bible per family, it's...

31:49It's a... It's a conserved dual family. Meaning that, now, if you got maybe eight families in that church, we're going to need eight. We have to need eight Bibles. But now, they were... In most churches where we visited, they were more than... They were many. Even some Bibles, they were not enough. So, and this is something which has been... Which has been a big problem in our churches, because getting these Bibles at that amount, it is very difficult for them. Because most of our church members, they are not employed. They depend on the empty their alley, and maybe for food, and maybe their families. So, it is... Yeah. It is so... Something else we saw it, I think, pretty much all of the churches was orphans. Yes, here. A lot of times the parents will die. And then the children will come to the church to look for help. Yeah. So, that's another component.

32:51The individuals we visited, or the communities we visited, we usually would have launch or dinner with the pastor in his house. And in the pastor's house, we saw that they did not have electricity. Some would have a solar panel, and they would have to pay a monthly fee to rent the equipment that would power one light. And then every one of these villages had latrines that were dug with cement floor. Sure. And also... But then they also had cell phones. Sure. Everyone had a smartphone. Yeah. But not necessarily electricity or running water. Yeah. Okay, to clarify more about that, pastor Shion. Yes, please. In most of the villages we visited, is when you notice that the pit latrines they were using, you can get one permanent pit latrine and cemented on a floor.

33:58But majority of them, actually the floor is just using the logs and the afkats, which is not... Which is not good for use. At that time it is delicate for the young kids to use such pit latrines. But since the lack funds were all that, that's what they can use at the moment. Okay, so you're saying that I was mistaken. They didn't have concrete floors in all of them. Yes. Although I did see that a lot. Yeah. Maybe I'm thinking of other places, not the villages. Yes. In the villages it was more just wood. Yeah. Wood. Yeah. Afkats, wood. That is it. Okay. And the one you saw at Nakhat church, that pit latrine, it is where the church members tried, okay, before I've got some photos of that before they used to use. So to say, no, this is going to be dangerous for the kids.

35:01They can get, they can get, they can die inside those wells because the pit latrine is the one. But just open, you can see all those pieces down there, which is not safe. Yeah. And twice. So you know, no, we have to contribute. We've got this local machine, like not the site in Yakach. But also this, this is called the Balast. It is available. So what we bought was just the iron rods and the cement to put that flow to cemented flow. Yeah. And another thing about the orphans, most of the orphans, you know, are churches. They believe that when they come to church, that's when they can get shelter. Because once the parents are not alive, like now they want you to witness at Nakhat church and other churches with the event. If I need to look by their physical look, you know that the background was not good at all. So that's that to run for the church for help.

36:04Or maybe the pastor to help them, maybe when that's something in the church to eat. Or maybe they can share with them, what they have with their children. Yeah. So issues of orphans, they orphans, it's very common in our churches. And we pray that in the widows too. And the widows too. Yes. God to open those and also we pray for them. So rest they can get at least something to put in their stomachs. And for ideally, they leave it like I mean. And of course when we were visiting a lot of times, there was food provided. Yeah. Is that typical after Sunday services that there will be a lunch? Yes. It's typical. Yeah. Okay. It is typical. Normal. It is not normal. No. Okay. It depends. Maybe what is there? What? The same time, the body if we have? Yes. Yeah. When it's all done by now, we just leave it that way. Okay. Yeah. I see. Yes.

37:04All right. What else should we talk about? Okay. At the same time, we can talk about the issue of our churches. Yes. Especially, we've got, okay. So we also, before we go to the churches, we also notice we met this guy called Wesse Lannert at the moment. And also we met this Masi, the other shot girl, woman there. We've got very talented people in our churches. They disabled one. Yes. But the lifestyle they are leading is very poor. Because the Kenyan government, most of the time, maybe I can call maybe some leaders. They are not considering them in a way. So you get maybe there is maybe any help coming for them. It is not reaching them because of some issues happening. You have the change. So they suffer a lot. So such like people also, they also come in church, believing that once they are in our church,

38:09they'll get shelter. They'll be considered. And maybe they'll be helped. You know, they have a. They want to know the other. You do that because of people. We, we should also meet some of our church. And when we talk about our churches, we've got, it's only that we've never got enough time to visit all of them. Yes. How many are there? Okay. We've got six churches out there. We visit just three of them. Three. Yeah. First yours, that's four. Yeah. Plasma and waspore. The other church also, like an example, you can talk of Nakaachach. You saw the roofing. They kind of the church was was freely really not in condition. The roofing, you saw that one and it's a, and also the walls even, they'll flow. Even the doors. Other churches, you don't have. Maybe that's they can't keep the church items. They can't leave the church items in those buildings. Yeah. So they have. Because they're with the stolen.

39:09They can get stolen. Yeah. From their homes to the church services, from the church service to their home, they take a lot of time. That's an example to also other churches. Maybe out of six, you can get three, they're in good condition. Yeah. Three, they're not. Yeah. So you also, you also have that problem of, you know, for maybe putting the funds together, maybe you get a piece of land, okay, you can get people volunteering to give piece of land to put a structure. But now getting funds to start and concern that structure is an issue, the problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because we are starting now to make our taxes physical and at the same time to be in good condition. Yes. Yes. Travel is an issue as well. Yeah. Just to get to these churches, not your church, but the others. We had to get out of the van and push it.

40:09Yeah, sure. Yeah. Because it's just very difficult, steep dirt roads. Yeah. And on a picky, picky motorbike, you could get up there a little easier. But we were not in, we were in a van. I don't know, I'm a passenger. It's easy. Eight passenger van. Yeah. The other problem that you run into is the condition of the paved roads. Yes. It has a lot of holes in them. Yeah, holes. Yeah, potholes. And this is not just little potholes. We're talking about holes that could destroy your vehicle if you didn't go around it. Yes, yes. So getting anything done takes a lot of effort. Sure. And time. Yeah. Yeah. You don't just go off to the store and pick something up and bring it home. Yeah. You have to plan it out.

41:09And then, you know, is there going to be anyone at the store? Yeah. Are they going to have what you want? Or do you need to wait a day for them to get it? These are all, these are all questions that we don't really think about in the United States. Oh. Yeah, in Kenya actually, every single summer, it has to be mentioned. It is a challenge. It is a challenge, especially to the leader. Like now, if maybe I may want to go to Nakaach, have to plan it well. Yes. Or have to go somewhere where Nakaach is, then I can reach Nakaach maybe, such early at the morning and do the service there. Or maybe do some look up, past and information to them. So, yeah. Well, what you have though is good communication on the phone. Yes. So you can voice call, you can text message.

42:09Exactly. And that is very easy for you guys. Yeah. But going there physically is very hard. Yeah. Physically is very hard. And it is very hard actually up to a B, it can spend. Or at the same time, yeah, it is very hard. Yeah. That is what we experience. So even our vehicle broke twice. Sure. The first time in Nairobi, this is a rented van that had been checked out before by our driver to make sure it was good. The time belt blew and we had to have that repaired in a city street in Nairobi. And then the battery died. We had to get a new battery when we were in Kise. So, and this wasn't surprising. This is just what happens. And you have to fix it and then you can go. Yeah. You can't even just call somebody to have them show up with another van and switch out.

43:13Yeah. You have to solve problems. Yeah. And we just started it before too. Yeah. So, yeah, this is what it takes to spread the good word here in Kenya. Is there anything else you'd like to add by way of closing? Yes. Oh, yeah. Lastly, hotels say that in the spread all those challenges and the spread all the efforts we put along, we witnessed the end of God doing great work there in Kenya. Like now, I've been receiving some calls since we left home. We since we left Kise here, we have here some other church members and also the church leaders. They were asking that they wanted that if time could allow, we also visited them.

44:15Because of the message, you left behind. Okay, there is an impact you left by the positive impact. That's what I can talk about. Like now, they kind of love you especially showed and they kind of may handling the church at all. It was just you are very simple and at the same time, but very strategic to put the message across. Many of that we still need you guys back in Kenya and you also need this one to be spread everywhere. And especially we need more materials and means of communication which can help this one to go to everybody to reach every person in Kenya. And also to other parts of the world. Yes. Like Tanzania. We will tell someone who needs this also to be told.

45:18We have also some generally in East Africa. We need that this one to be taught there and beyond. Yes. Okay, very good. Well, thanks for speaking with me today. I appreciate your time. Anytime. Yeah. Thank you. I want a free day. That's great. That's right. Yes. Someone named Jonathan wrote this introductory analogy using the kitchen spatula to illustrate how we evaluate options is such a clear way to frame the concept of comparative theology.

46:18It takes real intellectual courage to examine alternate views and weigh our own long held assumptions against them. But as you pointed out, testing our perspective either refines what we hold to be true or helps us discard ungrounded ideas. Excellent discussion and actionable methodology for honest biblical inquiry. Thank you for sharing. What Jonathan is talking about here is a little story I told about my black kitchen spatula, which I had learned was probably leaching fire retardant chemicals, very poisonous chemicals into our food after listening to some pie. I can't remember what podcast it was, but they were saying that many of the black plastic recycled items, especially the concern of kitchen utensils and tools were actually made from recycled televisions and other electronics. And those devices typically do have some sort of fire retardant built into them, which makes sense if you're a stereo or a TV, but not so much if you're a spatula flipping somebody's eggs in contact with heat.

47:28So anyhow, my point with that analogy was that when I learned that information, I got rid of that plastic spatula and I got a different kind of spatula so that I wasn't poisoning myself or my family. And that was the illustration for comparative theology, like when you learn that there's something wrong with the or theology, you should go out and look at what the other options are. So take a look at that if you're interested, appreciate you writing in Jonathan on an episode 670, a couple weeks back, cold I almost became a Jehovah's Witness, then I found biblical unitarians with Will Turner. Someone named Rich wrote in saying, hi Sean, I've been listening for about three years now and have wanted to comment a number of times, but never have. So today is finally the day. I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, I have my own long complicated story with that, but I'm of course very familiar with that world. I have had a lot of thoughts on your opinions when JWs and the watch tower come up on your podcast. So this episode was finally my push to comment.

48:29He goes out from there and talks about the blood issue, which is something that will mention in the episode. He writes that the change that will mention that took place in March was not a change allowing for witnesses to accept blood. Actually, it just so happens that the March update was just followed by an additional update two weeks ago. In March, the governing body did say witnesses could store their blood for future use, but that was really it. Will thought they were allowed to accept donated blood, that is not correct. It was notable, but really not that helpful myself and many others would say it was too little too late. So what Rich is talking about here is the Jehovah's Witnesses teaching that you cannot receive any kind of blood transfusion. And some JWs had requested of their governing body. I don't know why they call it the governing body, instead of just like the denominational leaders or whatever.

49:29But whatever they asked of the watch tower, what is it allowed for us to store our own blood? Is it okay to have our own blood, which is kind of a non-standard practice in the United States at least. I've never heard of it, maybe it's something that's going on that I don't know about. But the answer came back no. And I guess last March they reversed that and claimed that it was new light and that they didn't really apologize for people who have been harmed by this policy. They just kind of soldiers right on and Rich has much, much more to say about this. You can go to restituto.org and find episode 670. I almost became a Jehovah's Witness with Will Turner and you can read his entire comment there. I just did want to read out one part this corrective to me commenting on what I had said I was kind of rejoicing that Will was saying that they had overturned this, which Rich is saying they didn't quite overturn. They just kind of are allowing as of March your own blood and then as of September bits of blood of others like parts of the blood I guess not the whole thing.

50:37But anyhow, Rich goes on to say one thing you said Sean was sounded like the governing body was wanting to admit they were wrong but still maintain control. The correction there for me is that they have not admitted to being wrong at all, not even hinted at it and there has been no acknowledgement of the fact that many people died because of this wrong point of view. Or that it has been normal to cheer on your family members and friends for refusing blood and potentially dying because this is a commandment from God. The idea always pushed was if you die for this you're giving a good witness to everyone and most important being obedient to God's commands. I have seen this in my own family and a few times in my life and it's a very disturbing point of view. So this is really where the rubber hits the road. Look, if you're a policy, if your interpretation of scripture is resulting in people dying, you really need to be a hundred percent accurate. And coming back later and saying, oh well actually no, no, no, no, what do you mean? Well actually look people died.

51:43This needs to be a huge statement. It needs to be the watchtower saying we were wrong, not that there's just some sort of like update or we were never really that strict note. You were strict, people died and now you're changing your policy, which I think does undermine the organization's authority. Now if you want to read more about the gaslighting and manipulation and control that Rich has firsthand experience of check out the rest of his comment. On last week's episode, 671, I lost a thousand subscribers when I quit teaching the deity of Christ, then God showed up with Kanisha. That YouTube video has garnered an amazing 100 comments in the last seven days. That's pretty amazing. I'm not going to read out all of them to you if you want to read all the nice and mean things and it's a good mix of both. Go ahead and take a look at the rest of the studio YouTube channel and jump in there.

52:43There are actually I think what three videos total. So you know, there's more than a hundred comments actually. But I just read out a couple here, D little John said awesome interview and testimony. Thank you. Vaughn of New Zealand, someone that I know in real life said, hey Kanisha, thank you so much for sharing your story. So encouraging for me. Thank you again for another interview. Thank you both for the faithful work you're doing, reaching people using the gifts God has given you blessings for Vaughn of New Zealand. The disciple John says, thanks for sharing your testimony sister. You are a blessing to those like myself who have come to know the truth blessings. Housing insight said, well said, if Jesus must be God, the most high in order to receive salvation, then actually following Jesus for salvation becomes void. Margaret says great interview. Thank you. 28 Heisenberger says, thank you so much for sharing your testimony. Praise the yaw.

53:45Wayne is son Jesus our king and high priest may you and your families be blessed. Common sense Christianity. Excellent video. You two great jobs. Thank you. Thank you.

54:55That just made me determined to find out all I could about it and really test it. What it did for me was remove these really cloudy glasses through which I was trying to see and know God in Jesus. The Trinity doctrine is there even when you're even when they're not specifically teaching it, I had been learning it without knowing. Oh, and this all happened while I was bed bound for several years with the disease that destroys my nerves. I was taken out of the world extremely isolated where God could work on me on my old worldly values desires and attitude replace with the soul desire to know the one true God and his son Jesus. When I would try to share the gospel with my mom and expose witchcraft, she would react with rage this year my mom gave up her witchcraft read the Bible and also believes in the one true God miracles do still happen. And on and on we got lots and lots more comments too many to read out. I'll just read out Jason's he says denying the deity of Christ makes you a heretic repent. Hey Jason, that's not a super helpful comment that's just your opinion man. Why not give us some reasoning behind that opinion.

56:04Heretic is a word defined by the majority unless you are a Roman Catholic you're a minority and they would say you're a heretic too. So so I don't think it's really helpful to drop each bombs in defense of anything. It's just a matter of where you are coming from what defines orthodoxy and heresy. Alright, well that's going to be it for this week. Alright, that's going to be it for this week. I'll catch you next week if you'd like to support rest of studio you can do that on our website rest of studio dot org. There's also a lot of articles and classes and other materials on there for free if you would like to check out the website. I'll catch you next time and remember the truth has nothing to fear.