235: Pink: Washed

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1:00Learn more at Kia.com or visit your Southern California Kia dealer. At Hyundai of Glendale, Lisa knew 2026 Hyundai Santa Fe SE Front Wheel Drive for 229 a month plus tax for 24 months, with owners assurance at America's best warranty, 10-year 100,000 mile powertrain limited warranty. Stop by Hyundai of Glendale today or Hyundai of Glendale.net, 24 month lease, 3,999 cash to its signing, plus 5,000 2-pid-delease cash, tax title license and dog fees extra, plus government fees and taxes, 7500 miles per year, 20 cents per excess mile, expires 9.3026, one available at this payment, TH216309. Hello everybody and welcome to Bad Hasbara.

2:09The world's most moral podcast. That's right, my name is Matt Leib, I will be your most moral co-host for this sub podcast. I'm Daniel Matty and I'll be your other most moral co-host for another Jewish calendar year. What is it? 5,878 now? I don't know the numbers but it's up there. What's getting up there? We're getting up there. This earth is getting old. Smash that Survive button. Let's get humanity to year. That's right. 6,000. Yes, hit that notification bell for when the end times is a comment. Very excited, happy New Year to you and all your family out there. Daniel Matty. Same to you. And everyone, everyone out there celebrating. Good Yantif to all. It's very good, this whole Yantif thing. Give us 5 stars in review wherever you get your apps. I mean wherever you get your pods, whatever app you get your pods on. Give us 5 stars in review, tell your friends about it and subscribe.

3:12Subscribe to our Patreon because not only do you get these episodes a little bit before everyone else does usually like a day before. But also you get a bonus episode every gosh darn week. You get an extra episode of bad his bar. You can't get enough of this show. You're addicted. You're a hog. You're a big deal. I'm just getting it. It's all love. Please join. You know, if you want to. And also, you know, what you get. Join if you want to. That's right. Don't if you don't. So that's a good example of something you will get on the bonus episodes or on any episode. Sometimes we, you know, we'll sing something and YouTube will demonetize it because they'll be like, Hey, you're not allowed to sing songs. No joy allowed. I hope I can literally change the key on that be 52 songs. So it's not detected. Is it that sensitive? I don't think it's that sensitive, but it's fairly sensitive.

4:15So the great thing is if you are a patron, then you get the parody songs. Whatever parody songs we sing, they get us demonetized and we have to cut out of the main episode. You actually will get that as well as all of the other stuff that I mentioned before. Plus you get your name at the end of the episode if you join the $10 tier or more. So I mean, who the hell doesn't want that? Join the Patreon now. If you haven't done it, it's time. That's what the money is for. Mad Men. The 13th and 14th of October, I'm going to be at the punchline in Philadelphia. Please go to the link in the description and buy your tickets now. I'm going to be performing stand up. So as my wife, Francesca, if you're a teeny, I were also going to do a live version of her podcast. The situation room is going to be really fun. And then on the 15th of October, that's a Thursday, we're going to be at the bellhouse in Brooklyn. Link is all over the description. No, what's wrong?

5:15I'm busy that day. Well, Daniels, I plan to be busy. He plans to be busy that day. He doesn't want to support live comedy. Don't be like Daniel. Come out. Support live comedy wherever you can and you can in Brooklyn on October 15th. Buy the tickets. You've got a musical coming out. Tell me about it. I do a week from this coming Friday, Friday, September 25th on all streaming platforms. The cast album, the studio cast album, made in the studio entirely. It's not there was no production. The idea of making this album is to get productions in schools. Of my original musical, middle school mysteries, my film noir and flecked steely Dan for tweens, a wholly original detective story of two sixth grade slutes trying to solve the mystery of where did their classmate go? And also who is everyone really under the surface of all of these social roles and masks? Middle school mysteries, a new musical, say, that's the tagline.

6:15And it is coming out on September 25th because the kids really talk like that, say. Yeah. Wednesday, 8 AM, another. There's a hard boiled detective. I had a home school girl, Newby, who's got to learn the ropes real quick. And they form kind of an odd pair, you know. Yeah. It's amazing. It's amazing. We listened to it while we were in Jordan, we're in the hat. Not because of the pitch, but because I got to hear that. We listened to it. That's right. And it's very good. And I think everyone will enjoy it. And I can't wait to see productions of it. Many, it's very good, very funny. Let's do it. And then really good. License it to do in your school. In your school. Today, we have a sponsor, which again is just a charity, not a real sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you by Reviving Gaza. Reviving Gaza is a mutual aid initiative focused on providing for the immediate and basic needs of people in Gaza.

7:18They organize water purification and distribution orphan sponsorship and cash aid for refugee families in need. The link is in the description. Please click on it as soon as you can. You can, you know, if you're listening to this podcast, it'll be in the podcast description. If you're watching on YouTube or Patreon or wherever, sub stack, the link will be in the description there. Please click on it and donate. They need your money more than we do, certainly. And probably more than you do, I assume, chances are. So click the link, donate now and do it for the world. Daniel. Matthew. What's the spin? Well, let me ask you something, Matt. Do you have any mental health diagnoses? Oh, a bunch. Yeah, me too. This episode of the spin is called, we're all neurodivergent a little. That's right. That's true. Shout out to Robert Lopez.

8:21That's everyone is a little bit racist, right? Yeah, from Avenue Q. Yeah. From Avenue Q. This one's everyone's a little bit another R word. That's right. Yes, yes. So I got the idea for it because I was listening to this Billy Joel album Stormfront, which has we didn't start the fire on it. But the second single, the second single from it was always my favorite. It's I go to extremes. Oh, don't know why I go to extremes. And I was like, oh, it me, it me because I have bipolar two. Oh, my God. I've been diagnosed with bipolar two. Yeah, I take most stabilizers and all that. I'm normalizing the shit out of neurodivergians today. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's good. You know, Ben and Cork, please on this. What are you talking? Oh, that's extreme. That's on and that's that's kind of about a bipolar tendency. You know, I don't tend to think that these diagnoses are hard and fast things. They're not entities in your head. They're just really descriptions for tendencies and exactly. Exactly.

9:21Exactly. Also Stormfront, hell of a name for an album. I'll tell you that's also a very popular Nazi website. No relation. Billy Joel, for all I know is not a Nazi. Sing us a song, your Gestapo man. But that was good. It's good to sit there. God, you know, that one. Gestapo man. Oh, then depression, of course, which is another thing I've suffered from. Oh, yeah. And treated for it various times. Song garden on louder than love. Yeah. The major label debut has a song called Iowake in the opening line is woke up depressed. So depression. Nice. Borderline. Oh, for Borderline personality disorder. Well, yeah, exactly. I love that. Madonna's stuff titled debut. That's right. Borderline. Great song. Yeah. XTC on wonderful album, English settlement has a song called Senses Working Over Time, which I would associate with synesthesia.

10:24Oh. Where, you know, you experience colors as sounds and you experience, you know, touch as visually. Yeah, it does sound kind of, but it can probably drive people crazy. I'm sure, yeah, it's like, you know, if you have it, it's bad, but it's, it sounds pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, we could have gone so many different directions, could have been bad obsession for obsessive compulsive. Sure, sure, sure. But anyway, I had to, I had to be a little selective. Getto Boys, we can't be touched with this wonderful album cover that's taken in the hospital right after Bushwick, Bill got shot in the face. Oh, it's right. Is that how it was designed? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. And this was literally taken as, as Willie D and Scarface were wheeling him out of there. That's so awesome. Anyway, the song Mind, Play, and Tricks on me, that's schizophrenia if I've ever heard it. Yeah, Diana. Yeah. What's this talking to you? Yeah. I love that. I thought it could also be some sort of like, you know, positive, one of those like happy manic episodes for Damnit feels good to be a gangster. I thought you were going. Yeah. Or a psychopathy, die motherfucker, die motherfucker still.

11:24Neither of which are in this album. Yeah. Wow. That's fine. Um, MF Doom with, uh, well, the collab album J.J. Doom. There's a song on here called our worded friend. It's not called our worded friend, but it's. I got you. Yeah. I know. And it turns out that Tom York and Johnny Greenwood did a remix of it. There's a song called on this called Allow Governor, which Tom York named this his favorite song of 2014. Are you serious? Oh, you're not even joking. I'm not even joking. No, no. It's a song that makes up one of those. They are worded friends on. Wow. Really. It's not on here, but the, but the original is. Oh, that's awesome. And then just, you know, to sum it all up, everyone, don't be afraid of your neurodivergence. Don't be afraid of what makes you different. That's right. Make like Lindsey Buckenham and go insane. That's the name of this album. I like it. His album. Yeah. So that's our neurodivergent. What's this been? I love that. For all, for all you out there with the multiple diagnoses, we thank you so much for listening to this podcast.

12:27And not stalking us or whatever. I mean, listen, there's all sorts of diagnoses, only a few of which end in stalking. Cool. That is what is spinning in the Mattay household today. Better, better, better, a pair of, bear a social psycho than a paratrooper. Exactly. Today, we are doing a guest list episode. So it is just Daniel and I today for your ears, for your eyes, just the hosts. And so with that said, our before the guest segment makes no sense because we don't have a guest. So it's before the real shit. Before the real shit, because we have a lot of shit to get into today, we've got to get into some Macklemore stuff. We have a continued update on Macklemore. And then we also are going to be talking about the Naza documentary discourse that's been going on throughout the Twitter. And probably other social media websites, but Twitter is the one in which I see the most discourse.

13:33But before that, we need to talk about what, Daniel? Well, speaking of the XTC song, Senses Working Over Time, let's make our, I'm going to make your Senses Work Over Time here. Now, I want you to focus, this is going to be a challenge because visually what I'm about to play you wants you. It's trying to lure you in with a lot of visuals. But I need you to pay attention to what's going on sonically too in the background. Specifically towards the end of it. Okay. And this is a face and a body you might recognize. This is Sydney Swini's fucking gambling addiction slop. I heard about this. Which is now, you know, there's a billboard up in Times Square. This is the most nefarious ship, by the way. Yes. Like gambling addiction is the most destructive addiction in America, bar none. Yes. And then it's the most suicide. Saga and Jettie actually had a very good interview on her cross-cent about this. Whatever you think of those two guys, he's done some good research into it. And it's fucking grim. And I don't mean Ryan. It's grim.

14:33It's upsetting. And now they, of course, who do they get the most porn-coded, right-wing-coded, middle-america-coded actress to try and tantalize you into gambling? She's certainly leaning in. I'll tell you that. She's leaning in. So let's watch. I want you to, as if that's not enough toxins that they're trying to pump into you. Watch what happens towards the end of this, or listen, I should say. Okay. Thank you, no sports. Move it. No big-ass. Just sports. So they wanted a show. Just sports. You can trade the sport. Or this. Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. Blood and treat. Blood and 감mes have been two candy Option苏 Thanos, who'd spend money in a splashing pool, black hair. Oh no. Fine. Three dozen. One of two rains. One of one will give five drops in last‐." One of them will give five婆� three... seven drops in last ‐." Uncle, you've 20 years of total 많이 money.

15:33I wasn't expecting that for someday. A crime is for buying diamond instead of petRP? Going with yourmit, I should say, you're having a hard time fighting a pl圝 o Dr. Ho, all the tax money solving threatened you against? No match. ... four did less lollablement than the 2017 quarter calendar because people San management sent in the lawsuit against the NHLân for anyway not working in the financial business for a bank. That is the most nasty thing. That is the most nasty thing. I take death. I take death. No sports. No running on wars. Or death. I'm a ball-dust. I just do. I take sports. You! What the fuck is going on? Well, I hear that the owner of Novik is a big old Zionist. I haven't looked it up. I should have looked it up in the front. You can do a little Novik. De- De- Oh my god, dude. I never thought that there would be literally any- You were telling me, like, I'm going to play you something and it's got Sydney Swini, basically naked on it. But that won't be the thing that makes you react like you just came.

16:35That's right. Like, what the fuck, dude. I cannot believe that. Is it a, what, I don't know why, why? It's just, I have no idea. I mean, your guess is as good as mine as to how that got in there, whose idea it was. I mean, because the music, like there's definitely a pause in the music and it gears up by this little coda. They just clearly tacked it on. Right, they're like, oh god, dammit. It's just like an endless fucking, just barrage of the most hand-fisted, I mean, I guess in this case, it's trying to be subtle because people don't know the fucking Israeli national anthem. So, CEO Jacob Fortin-Tonight's ski. Jacob Fortin-Tonight dance is a Zionist, cool. And yeah, they were just like, let's play the fucking

17:37Israeli national anthem. Just trying to sell you on a birthright trip right in the middle of it, I guess. I mean, they're gonna start paying off poor and hub to get Israeli national anthems as backgrounds in porn videos or, you know, that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to fucking. Yeah, they're trying to create an association. A Pavlov fucking association where all of a sudden, instead, but instead of like the bell rings and the dogs drool, it's like you hear how teakva and then you come. And that's what they're trying to do. And I see you, I see you, I know what you're up to. That's just why. Why? It's just not worth fighting anymore. You know, I have myself abuse alone. Yeah, I know. It's like, this is, I feel like the most, I feel like I'm gamer gate now, where I'm just like, not in my safe space, don't give me your god-dansanism in my safe space. I'm just trying to go. Oh, man, Daniel, I truly, I was like,

18:39what could you possibly have to say about this that isn't just the same kind of discourse about whether or not Sydney, Swini is Magger or whatnot? No, you've found something. I don't think I've seen anyone talk about this. I saw one person mention it. They, that's the reason I clicked, because I wasn't gonna click on the sound. The whole thing disgusted me. Yeah, I was just gonna watch it on mute. And someone's like, am I going crazy or is there a head tick for it in the last five seconds of this? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. No! Oh, well, sports, you know, good sports. Sports, everyone. One of my favorite Huguim. Hey. Yes. So with that note on this, on this new year, we need to move on to talk about other music. We have an update on the Macklemore situation. We talked about it on Friday, and we were a bit late in talking about it, because that actually happened a week before.

19:40I think in the first week of September, in which Macklemore went on stage in New Jersey, East Rutherford, New Jersey, opening for Ed Sheeran and gave this little speech right before he played Hins Hall, which is a song, about the Colombian campments, and of course the murder of a six-year-old girl came to write a six-year-old woman according to. Yeah, a six-year-old grown lady, if you watch 24-hour news networks. A middle-aged Palestinian in other words. That's right, yeah. And so he gave the speech in which he said, you know, genocide in apartheid, bad, which shows very shocking for the Israelis and or Jewish people in the audience, not for the majority of them, just for maybe one or two people who went there and were offended by this statement.

20:41And he was... They were mostly offended when he called them as Jewish brothers and sisters. They're like, no, sibling of mine is uncircumcised. And wraps the rap, oh, I guarantee you that Macklemore is circumcised. He was born in the 80s. We all got, you know, we all got a chippity chopped, whether you were Jewish or not. It's just that... Is that true? I don't know. I mean, look, I just know that like, I was shocked to find out how many people look, I've seen a lot of dicks. And I've noticed that, you know, there were a few uncircumcised people, but a far greater amount of circumcised people. And I just... I also think that's probably regional too, you know? It's probably very normal. I feel like if he grew up in a more Christian part of the country. I'm talking about the United States, you know, I mean, in general, maybe there's different parts. Here's the point, we're not talking about dicks right now. Talk about Macklemore, not Mackleless. And he gave the statement and he got dragged through the mud.

21:45The world's most Macklemoreal podcast. That's right. And one of the people in entities dragging him was, of course, the ADL and Jonathan Greenblatt specifically was going after Macklemore and not just that, but he was going after Ed Sheeran and he was going after the owners of the stadiums where Ed Sheeran was going to perform during his US tour. He posted this on Twitter, Macklemore demonized Israel and Israelis to a crowd of unsuspecting fans who came from music, not propaganda. And while he may have the right to say, what he wants to, no matter how grotesque, businesses have every right to decide who they platform. We encourage stadium owners and venue management to demonstrate their values, which, of course, is not so much a suggestion, but a threat. This was...

22:46We want venue owners to demonstrate our values. Right. This threat against the stadium owners worked today, Monday, September 14th, both Variety, Hollywood Reporter, and Rolling Stone all broke the news that indeed, Macklemore was removed from Ed Sheeran's US tour. Exclusive, Macklemore dropped from Ed Sheeran tour after, onstage, quote, free Palestine statements. I have some more about that. This is from Variety. I will read this right now. Macklemore dropped from Ed Sheeran tour after free Palestine speech. Macklemore has been dropped from the remainder of Ed Sheeran's US loop tour after making headlines, headlines made by us at Variety, saying, free Palestine on stage after delivering a political speech during the September 4th concert at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey.

23:50The Grammy winner told the audience at the show that he wanted people in Gaza and the occupied West Bank to know they had not been forgotten. Messina Turing Group promoter of the US leg of Sheeran's loop tour set an statement to Rolling Stone, quote, as the concert promoter for Ed Sheeran's US loop tour, we have been notified by venues. On the upcoming US tour dates that they will not allow, a concert to take place with Macklemore on the lineup, which would result in the cancellation of the tour and impact hundreds of thousands of dollars. I mean fans, after discussions with stakeholders, Macklemore will not be performing on the remaining support dates. After discussions with stakeholders, we have targeted Macklemore's art risks and ankles for perforation by said stakes. Yes, by stakeholders, they mean people wielding stakes against the vampire that is Macklemore.

24:53Yeah, so this news broke today and it was, honestly, it was like a bit of a gut punch for me because I knew that this was in all probability, something that could happen, but there's always part of me that goes, Ed Sheeran is big enough that he's doing stadiums. He is rich enough that he is able to throw his weight around. Maybe he will just ignore it and call the bluff of anyone who is going after him. And the fact that he didn't, isn't just like a, oh man, well, you know, it's hard out there to fucking, no, it is a supreme act of cowardice. To me, it is like totally unforgivable in anyone trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Like, no, it's not Ed. It's a, he had to because the venue owners,

25:53yes, certainly the venue owners went after him. In fact, Macklemore said in a statement recently, and I'm going to read this to you, that it was indeed the remaining stadium owners who got together at the behest of Robert Kraft, who is a billionaire Zionist piece of shit. And, damn it, I hate being part of a marginalized group that has no influence over anything. I know. It's so tired of it. When are we going to be able to pull string? I know. When will we finally get a fair shot? But like, while I, of course, agree that these are venue owners getting together and doing something that rhymes with Schmushmall, Kebal, it didn't really, it didn't my best. This is like, this does not let someone as big as Ed Sheeran with as much pull as he has off the hook for that, because this is something he actually can, he and the promoter can put their foot down and say, no, you don't get to control who we put on,

26:55especially given the fact that you've got fucking, like, Kanye West put out a Nazi fucking album, like he's got a Hail Hitler song. And he just did another concert at the State Center or something or something. Yeah, some fucking arena or whatever. I mean, because they could go above and say, okay, cancel us and then they'd have to deal with fans being like, what the fuck, yo, why did it get canceled? It got canceled because someone said something political on stage, that's fucked. That would have been great. Yeah, I mean, and I'm sure it afforded, like, that's what I'm saying. Ed Sheeran can afford it. And you think about, well, okay, so contractually, possibly they do have say, right? Nothing stops them. This is Adam saying, nothing stops them. Booking Ted Nugent, Chris Brown, Kanye, et cetera. Exactly. Jasmine Crockett just gave Chris Brown some kind of life minute cheap life. Don't even award on stage. Jasmine Crockett gave Chris Brown a medal. He's like, it's, I guess number one in domestic abuse,

27:58I'm not sure. But in like gold records and black eyes, dude, it is it's fucking wild to see these stadium owners being like, well, this is a bridge too far. And Ed Sheeran, maybe let's say he was contractually obligated to like, like maybe the venue has say and they can pull out legally. So if Ed Sheeran says, well, I'm gonna do it anyways, then you know, he's in breach of contract. I don't know. Maybe let's say at worst they can all sue him if he does it. I'm sorry, Ed. You are too rich and famous of a person to be like, well, what do you want me to do? Get sued. Fuck that. You take a stand or you're nothing to me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But you knew who Macklemore was when you booked him. Apparently, they're friends. Of course. You know exactly what he's about. What he's been doing on stages. You're not prepared for this? It's just insane to me. It is so cowardly. Let me read you some of Macklemore statement

29:00about what happened because I think it's, it gets into the details, sort of the nitty gritty of this news. I'm not sure how to start this. So I'm gonna speak from the heart and share the truth. Ed Sheeran and his team have made the decision to remove me from the loop tour. But before I get into it, I wanna say something that should be obvious in this moment, I think it matters. I am not a victim. Ed Sheeran is not a victim. Pink is not a victim. All right. We have careers, money, opportunities, safeties, and audiences around the world. Whatever consequences any of us face for what we say, we get to go home to our families. Yes. The victims are the Palestinian people. The men, women, and children who have been killed, starved, displaced, and forced to live through unimaginable violence, more than 20,000 children have been killed in Gaza alone. People are being killed today and people will be killed tomorrow. I wanna make sure that as I tell this story, we don't lose sight of that. Ed is my friend.

30:00I've known him for 13 years. We've shared late nights, studio sessions, and stages. He has this infectious magic about him that I've grown to love. I consider him a brother. And because of that, we've had some difficult conversations this past week. The type of talks rooted in love in respect for one another that still end in a place of fundamental disagreement. Nothing I'm writing here is out of spite or because I want to tear down his character. But as I told Ed multiple times on the phone, our friendship can't change. My responsibility to tell the truth about what happened. Last month. And a friendship between two multimillionaire superstars survive antisyenism? That's right. The age old question that started six months ago. Last Monday in the middle of all the media attention surrounding pink and what I said at MetLife, Ed told me that Robert Kraft called him. We were scheduled to play Gillette Stadium later this month,

31:00which is owned by the Kraft Group. Ed told me that Kraft said I would not be allowed to perform in his stadium. Ed also told me that Kraft had rallied some of the other stadium owners and collectively gave him an ultimatum. If Macklemore stays on the tour, you will not be allowed to play in our venues. Ed was in a fucked up position. He knew it. His typical apolitical stance was being challenged in a way it never had been before. He told me that the words free Palestine and the images of the Palestinian flag were hurtful to a lot of people he spoke with. I told him that if those words were more offensive than tens of thousands of Palestinian children being killed by Israel, then there was a fundamental disconnect between where those people stood and where I stood, but he couldn't get past his public facing, quote, I don't take sides. And I get why people don't. Taking a side can cost you money, brand deals, sponsorships, festivals, private shows, relationships, and access.

32:01I've lost all of those things, but there is no neutral position between the oppressor and the oppressed. One one side has the bombs and bottomless financial and military support from America, refusing to take a side doesn't leave you in the middle. And this is the last page of this. What I said I met life I've been saying on stages around the world for almost three years. And why is it an issue now? Because now I'm sharing a stage with one of the biggest artists in the world in some of the biggest stadiums in America. A certain level of exposure, quote, free Palestine becomes too much of a risk. If I kept doing the shows, saying free Palestine with Ed implicitly supporting it, the crowd getting loud and showing undeniable support for Palestinian liberation, what artists might speak out next? The stage becomes resistance. Maybe that's why this time it became so important to silence me. And one of the most effective ways to enforce that silence has been to weaponize the accusation of anti-Semitism.

33:02Anti-Semitism is real, and that is exactly why the word matters too much to be used as a shield against criticism of the Israeli state. When criticizing Israel opposing Zionism or saying free Palestine gets conflated with hatred of Jewish people, it doesn't protect Jewish people. It protects Israel from accountability. I hope this isn't the end of my relationship with Ed. 13 years of friendship doesn't disappear because one of one painful disagreement. I hope we both continue listening, studying what is happening in Palestine and wrestling with what neutrality means in a moment like this. My door always be open to continuing that conversation. When my brother Omar was doing the subtitles for the video I posted for MetLife, I thanked him and told him there's an Arabic phrase. La Shukra Ala Wajib, there is no thanks for a duty. That stayed with me not because of what this has become for me and millions of others around the world, a duty, not something deserving of praise or gratitude,

34:02not brave, human. Who is winning the internet? Who is getting canceled? Who gets to play the stadiums and who doesn't? All of it becomes so small when held against what we are actually witnessing in Gaza and the West Bank, an entire people being displaced, starved, killed. While the world debates which words we are allowed to use to describe it, how those words make us feel and whether our discomfort matters more than the people living through a genocide. You just used the word, you just used the word, the debate wasn't over, Mechlamore. You said we were debating it and then you just went and slipped it in there. You just said it. Like it's not the word, I'm against. I didn't need 10 shows from Ed. I needed two chances to stand up in front of 90,000 people and say the words that somehow became too dangerous to say, free Palestine. But if those words cost me the stage while turning the conversation back to Palestine, then it was the most successful tour I've ever been on.

35:02Free Palestine. Fucking great statement. It really is a great statement. I mean, it is, and it just, it is a gut punch. It really is like this was something that I knew could happen and after watching the videos of what he actually said, part of me was feeling a little bit like, you know, they won't be able to justify this. Like Ed's not gonna be able to justify this to himself. The promoter's not gonna be able to justify this. Even the stadium owners who probably don't like what he said, they'd have to explain themselves for canceling that, no, no, not at all. It's just, you know, it's not surprising, but that doesn't mean it doesn't shock the system when I see it. And it just goes to show the relative tiniiness of even the biggest names.

36:03Like the power does not arrest with fame, it does not rest with celebrity, it does not rest with individuals, and it doesn't rest with even being hired, getting a gig. You can lose it at any time. There is, and I think his analysis is very right that, and you know, if he, one of the things that surprised me and worried me for him about the way he did it is that I'm so glad to get up here because now I get to say two words that I've wanted to say on his day, a free Palestine with a raised fist, right? He didn't start with, there's a genocide going on, and I really think we need to be upset because our government is doing it. He starts with the slogan, he starts with the, he starts with the big ticket message. That's a big choice. I probably wouldn't do that. I would probably try to sneak it in there or build to it or something, like make the case, and then say it, but he worked his way backward from his principle, and that got, that meant to get people's attention, including Robert Kraft's, and yeah, he's not gonna allow it.

37:05He's not, he's meddled with the primal forces of nature. And he, you know, he won't atone, but Ed Sheeran will. Yeah, exactly. Ed Sheeran really will, and you know, he gets into there in that kind of, honestly, another brave thing for Macklemore to do there was to tell like it is when it comes to his friendship with Ed Sheeran, he's like, listen, we are homies. We've been homies for a while, and we fundamentally disagree here. He's, where homies? My homie is a bitch made. Yes, coward. Coward. You know, and I love him like a brother, and he's got no spine. No spine, no spine whatsoever. And he's also being surrounded by people who are, you know, telling him, nah, this hurts me. You need to do something about this, but it's what happens at that level. You don't get to that level, unless you're willing

38:08to be swept up and shaperoned through fame by a group of, you know, we talk, we think about yes, men, yes, people, right? But they're also there to be no people. Yeah, they are leading you by the hand. That's what they're doing. And they're making it like they're just, you know, stroking you and giving you a manicure, but they're pulling you in that fucking direction. And, you know, his, I like that, Macklemore did not allow Ed to continue this farce of, I am neutral. And he did so by saying, hey, this is the decision that was made in the, you know, in the name of neutrality, I was let go for saying free Palestine. That's what happened. The, the Ed allowed himself to be bullied by these powers who, you know, have this endless amount of money and, and, and, and, and cachet, but also no, no name.

39:08Like Robert Kraft is the most famous of all of them. He's also because he's an NFL team owner. And he also famously was arrested for getting a hand job. And so like, you know, he's, he's got some fame. He's got some name, but the rest of these fucking guys, nobody knows the fuck they are. People know who Ed Sheeran is. He's famous enough that he can fill a fucking 90,000 the stated stadium. And he's pretending like, well, I need it to be neutral. It's fucking cowardice. That's all it is. And that's why for today's episode, I wanted to play you guys something. I just want to say real quick, that if for some reason this starts and ends immediately, it's because YouTube had to demonetize it. And you could find the full song at the end, or on Patreon. So patreon.com slash baddest bar. That's all these episodes uncut, you know? But you'll probably get a little bit of it if you're listening on Spotify or YouTube.

40:11So here is a little bit of Ed Sheeran for all y'all. I'd like to make the video real quick, alright? Because I spent all the time on the lyrics.

41:48Anyways, oh boy. Good stuff, good stuff, good stuff. If you guys didn't get to hear that, if you didn't get to hear it, then yeah, just go to Patreon and subscribe. Why not? You got a parody songs. And who doesn't like that? parody songs. Anyways, fuck Ed Sheeran. Adam just sent us a word that Jacob Fortinsky followed him. Is that you, Adam that he followed? Remind us who Jacob Fortinsky is. We were looking at him before. This is the guy who runs the fucking, the gambling website. Oh, wow, okay, no big man. Yeah, yeah, the one who put hatique funds. He just followed you. That's awesome. Uh oh. Well, that'll be fun. Matt, Adam, all of a sudden it's going to start putting like lyrics

42:49in Hebrew to hatique fund in the lower thirds. That's what we'll know that no big got him. Yeah, oh no. Why is there just a constant bed of hatique? Is that just in the background of everything? Is that Jerusalem of gold? Guys, I'm rethinking a lot of things. Yeah, yeah. Adam's going to be headlining the Novig Festival. That's right. Very good, very good. It's a peace festival. So speaking of peace and love festivals, I saw this just randomly. I was watching a clip of Norm Finkelstein who I just, it just turns out today he's on Tucker Carlson. Oh, look at that. He'll go on Tucker Carlson who he talks about as problematic. He's not come on this show. I'm fucking throwing down the gauntlet. Oh yeah, what the hell? It's just like leading. Come on, Norm. Yeah, what do we ever do to you besides do bad impressions? We'll do the fucking great replacement theory, whatever you need. We got you. We got you too. Get it. What about trans people?

43:50So Finkelstein was on Hassan Piker. And I was watching just a clip of it. And there were captions. And it produced one of my favorite auto caption typos of all time. Just look at this. That was advertised as a free love festival. He was talking about what he called the supernova festival. Oh, yeah. He always gets it wrong. He says, and he said it was advertised as a free love festival. But the caption says I was advertised as a free love festival. He looks like what he's wearing. Honestly, he is fashion-mogging Hassan Piker in that shirt and that blizzard. That is a good shirt, dude. Yes. Supernova is the name of a Scott festival that happened yesterday. Couldn't, did anyone invade it at him? Were there any pair of glides? No, okay, nevermind. No, all right. So just regular. Yes. It just went off without a hitch. Okay. He looks great. He looks great. He's a free love festival. And it would be a free love festival. It would be a free love festival if you ever came on this show normally. If you ever came down to our level.

44:53That's right. If you want to get down in the dirt with the hall with Mr. Lieberman and Mr. Mathison, we are here. That's right. We're here, dude. We're here ready to get yelled at or something. But slowly. No, he'd have a great time. Just finishing up this Ed Sheeran stuff. You know, we'll see what comes of this. I think at the end of the day, the pressure on Ed Sheeran from actual human beings, like the ones who all cheered when Macklemore said free Palestine is not going to be louder to add than the small handful of billionaire Zionists who are going to be padding them on the back and the maintaining relationships with people like Pink. Real quick to get into the Pink's contribution into this. Pink was brought into the Macklemore discourse because of the fact that she made a comment,

45:54I think, on something, you know, an Instagram post that called out Ed Sheeran and she, you know, wrote unacceptable or some bullshit like that. And she ended up getting yelled at for this. People were, you know, mad that once again, Pink, who has been fairly active in some of the Hizbar media in the last three years, was once again using her platform to try to, you know, say that killing kids in Palestine is actually not that bad and needs to happen. And she, because she got yelled at for saying that Macklemore was bad or whatnot. Yes. So she wrote, this is not acceptable. This is something that she wrote in a comment. And it said, Pink condemns Macklemore's hateful propaganda and calls Ed Sheeran for allowing it on stage. The funny thing about this is this was again in a comment that she wrote and it was pumped

46:57out by all of the pro-Israel advocacy groups, all the, you know, you got your A-Packs here, I-A-C's, you know, they all were picture of Pink and look at this hero who's telling Macklemore, you know, shut up about kids. She ended up getting yelled at by some people and because of that, she put out a statement of which, what did you say, Pink, please stop putting a two in me and want some more else. Adam. Adam. This is a lost episode about his bar. No, no, no. So Pink put out a statement about the fact that people are mad at her for her advocacy. I'm only going to read a little bit of it because truly, I can only read so much, you know, before I start losing my mind and look at this. She's right. She did this on fucking Instagram. It's very annoying to me that she is decided, it's like I'm going to make my statement in

48:07a fucking Instagram caption. And then when I run out of space, I'm going to go into the comments, just, just write it. At least fucking Macklemore opened a Google doc. What are we doing? Anyways, this is, I'm just going to read some of it until I get to annoy to read. I've been quiet, I'm already, I'm already mad. I've been quiet in my own words for a week, which you know isn't like me. So here they are. Last Sunday, I reposted somebody else's post about Macklemore's set at Ed Sheeran's show. It said things in words I didn't write and I wouldn't have chosen all of them. Then the comments came and I did what I do when I'm hurt, which is post snarky memes and act like I'm fine. That's on me. So repost is an statement, a meme isn't a spine. Social media makes all of us cheap and fast and we all know it. Yada, yada, yada. I was born a Jew, I didn't pick it and I've never hidden it.

49:07And this week a whole lot of people decided what I believe without asking me, without checking a single thing I've ever said or done because a repost and the word Jew were apparently enough to fill in the rest. Let me fill it in myself. I'm going to stop you right there. Pink has not been ambiguous about where she stands with this. Pink has done videos with Noah Tishby. Pink has made multiple statements condemning people who other artists who have come out and said free Palestine or that they support Palestine or that they're against genocide. He is always asked and she always delivers a condemnation of people. That's what she's been doing for the past three years. So this idea of like, no one even asked me if I like genocide or not. You've made it clear. You've made it very clear to people.

50:07So no one is filling in these gaps by being like, oh, I guess I assume that she likes Israel. No, you've said it. You've said as much. I'll continue reading a little bit more of this. Of course. I don't speak for Israel or any government. I never have what I said on October 2023 is still exactly what I believe. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Palestinians deserve a future that honors their humanity and their aspirations. I'm sorry, but like this fucking melee mouth, Palestinians deserve a future that honors their humanity. How about don't kill them? You know, it's just this fucking liberal hogwash. Right. So to be honored in a plaque after you get fucking slaughtered. And as for aspirations, well, the Zionist view about Palestinian aspiration is that they just want to kill every Jew. Right. So what aspirations are you talking about? The aspiration, well, okay, their aspiration for coexistence. No, they don't have that aspiration.

51:08I mean, if coexistence is what it looks like, many Palestinians would live with that, but their aspiration is freedom and justice. It's life. Yeah. It's being able to live on their land freely, you know, in whatever form that can take. And that's for them to decide what's acceptable to them. Pink gets to pretend. Pink gets to pretend and all liberals, Zionists get to pretend that the aspirations, like the people in charge of deciding which aspirations are valid are them. That pink herself. Yeah, the aspirations actually have to be part from like the Asper foundation, like with the Asper. Yeah, exactly. Yes, a blanket knowledge. A bland technology. Thank you, Adam. That's exactly right. That's about a third of the way to redemption for your little, uh, oh no, he's going to delete that other way. People will not know that if people are like, whoa, shit, what did he say? You're not even getting that on Patreon. Just kidding. Protecting innocent life comes first everywhere and nobody should ever celebrate the

52:13death of a child, anybody's child. I've spent a decade as a unicef ambassador for kids who didn't choose the country of, uh, the war they were born into and I have grieved every one of them. I think in fact, I was so outraged by that that I pioneered an exchange program so that kids from one genocide written area could exchange with kids from another and go to fight out how those kids are suffering and dying. That's right. Um, the grace after she says this, she goes, uh, I've grieved every one of them on both sides of that fence and I didn't do it from behind to screen. I went to those children and held them. I'm sorry. What, what, what fence? Uh, well, it's a security fence. It's the security fence, but certainly not the ones that, uh, separate the West Bank and, uh, 48 or the ones, uh, that surround Gaza. Um, but yeah, I've grieved every one of them on both sides of that fence. Mm-hmm. Um, and I'm not going to litigate a complex war in an Instagram caption.

53:17Um, sorry, but you are, uh, and I'm not going to recite anybody slogan to earn back a follower. That's right. In fact, you're going to condemn someone for doing a slogan, uh, that you don't agree with. This is like, Bernie Brown's like bipolar sister or something like that. Yeah. Like the much less nice, much less conciliatory, much less trying to seem soft and vulnerable version of a kind of, I'm not going to take sides. Mm-hmm. But the way I speak will reveal who I think is human. Yes. And, and beyond that, like she is, she is at, at all points, beyond the way she speaks. It's also the fucking the way she has acted and continues to act. It's fucking insane. And then she tries to say, look, I got cred. I, I was against the Iraq war and I had a, a song about it. Dear Mr. President, guys, I'm sorry. Pink, not one of the figures, the anti-Aroque war figures that is, uh, known, not like,

54:21what are we doing? Phil, on a you, Dixie chicks. Yeah. Yes. Pink was, uh, very employed during this time. Meanwhile, the Dixie chicks did have things like what's happening currently to, uh, Nacklemore happen to them. So fuck off with this like, uh, you know, I spoke when it counted bullshit. Um, and then she's like, you know, I'm cool with gay kids, I'm cool with trans kids, I'm cool with all sorts of people. Why do I also have to be cool with Palestinians? That's me paraphrasing. Um, it just goes on and on. Honestly, it is, uh, it is, if those Palestinian kids, one of my sympathy, they could easily become gay or trans. That's right. Exactly. Just do that. Um, no, you know, and I would be, I was thinking that this, I mean, I knew it, yeah, I knew I knew pink was washed, but I didn't know if pink was going to do pink washing. Wow. That is so real. She does straight up pink wash in this. Yeah. That is wild because she, she talks about, you know, uh, you know, standing with, uh, with

55:24gay people and standing with trans people and all of this stuff over and over, as a way to kind of say like, oh, you know, if I'm doing this and I'm not supporting Palestinians, what does that say about Palestinians? Because you know, full well that she is bought into the same Zionist lie that Arabs are, uh, just born genetically reactionary, that they are conservative, uh, and due to that, they are, uh, you know, worthy of being disregarded. This is a constant pink washer. I just, you know, I guess it's just a little on the nose that it's from someone named pink. Pink who's washed. Yes. Um, so she, of course, you know, goes on to talk about how Macklemore, um, was, uh, wore that suit that, uh, was anti-semitic, you know, the anti-semitic costume that she got at the thrift shop. Yeah. She magnetismally, magnetismally forgave him for her, but then forgave no more after he

56:28was like, hey, can we stop killing kids, please? So it's just, uh, it's just a bunch of liberal pink washing bullshit and it's pink washing herself too. That's what she's doing. And finally, I just read, um, these parts right here. That's what prompted my repost, not free Palestine and not anyone's right to say it. I've never asked for another artist to be silence and I'm not asking now. I don't need anyone fired and I don't need a refund. Wait, what? Were you there? Uh, what I need is to be able to say as a Jewish mom, quote, that scared me. Oh, it's a, say as a Jewish mom, quote, that scared me and it scared people. I love close quote. Thanks for sharing. You just said without without being told that our fear is just propaganda without being told that I'm somehow cool with genocide because I noticed. You listen, uh, pink, and I know you're listening. Um, you are cool with genocide.

57:32That's a fact. It's just true. The fact that you find it more scary when someone speaks out against genocide, uh, then actual genocide, that spells it out. How can anyone read that any other way? This dance that people do when they are forced into a position to explain why they are supporting Israel three fucking years into a genocide where they go like, well, you don't know my exact beliefs or what's in my deep heart, my, you know, deep dark heart. I actually, and against genocide. Yeah. This is the pink brown alliance. If you know what I mean, yes, though, yes, it is because that's exactly Jesse Brown's approach. Yes. 100%. I mean, I think that's the exact same thing. This Adam case, not what I was saying. Calm down. I missed it. I missed it. Um, uh, there's such a thing as being a little too porn brain for a podcast.

58:33Um, so the point is is that we, these people pretend to be cagey. They pretend to be hard to read. They pretend to be neutral. Ed Sheeran's doing the same thing. Oh, I'm neutral. I, I, I just want no politics and for everyone to get along. I don't want war or politics. And then Hatik was playing in the background like the fucking Sydney, Swini thing that the, I mean, he put it perfectly. Macklemore really did put it perfectly when he talked about the, uh, you know, oppressors uh, and, and the oppressed and neutrality, the way that like you can't be neutral in a genocide, you know, you can't notice how much. There's a central on a moving train or whatever, you know, right? You also just noticed how much better his writing is to. Yeah, I, you can string together a thought, a sentence, a paragraph, and a series of paragraphs. It's well composed. It's thoughtful. Uh, it's pretty devastating.

59:34And hers is just a kind of like spinning out defensive self-absorbed, incoherent. Yes. A very unself-aware rant. Right. And it's defensive in a way that calls into question the entire veracity of the things that she's saying. As we can tell, that this is everything she's doing is a defensive move against whatever voices that in her head or the voices that she's read. And these comment sections are saying she needs to pump up her anti-war credentials and whatnot. She needs to tell people how liberal she is and how much she supports all these other marginalized groups. This is, it just shows. It's that pep. It's that progressive, except Palestine. It is that shit. And it's so insidious because it is fundamentally a progenocide stance, whether or not they want

1:00:34to believe it. It is. That's how it is. And what was the result of it? The result of pink and the ADL, Jonathan Greenblatt, all of these organizations that exist primarily with endless fucking barrels of money to stop people from being pro-Palestine. Got mechelmour fired. She said, oh, I don't want anyone fired. Well, if you didn't want anyone fired, I think you know full well what you could have done, which is not say fucking anything. You know, let yourself be offended. But that's not what she did. And we know why. So she can pretend otherwise, but it's not true. We need to take a break. But we're going to continue a conversation about the cultural war and the culture war and also the propaganda war that has currently taken place, you know, in general. And that's why we say we talk about.

1:01:35We saved the heaviest for last. It's going to be it's going to be a doozy of a back end. And if you had it, it could do something with that statement, but we're not going to let them. Everyone stick around. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Hala Palestine. That's right guys, we finally did it. We got an ad. And I'm very excited about this one because this is a great company. The people of Palestine have been making soap the same way for generations and usually using just olive oil, baking soda and water in Nablus home to one of the world's first known soap factories. They make this exact soap, the al Jamal, the camel. And I was sent this one as well as others from that. Yeah, isn't this nice? This is from Hala Palestine. This is the Nablus pure olive oil soap.

1:02:38And this is another one of theirs with the, if you see there's got the keys on it. It's really, really cool. And I was also sent this beautiful fafia by today's sponsor, Hala Palestine. Hala, yeah. And I believe I've been sent some of that as well, but I will receive it when I get home in a few weeks because I'm out on the road right now. But I'm grateful and excited to sample these where. So Hala Palestine is an online store where you can get all kinds of Palestinian crafts, clothing and traditionally produced olive oil soaps, all handmade in Palestine and delivered to your door. And that fafia that they sent you, Matt, it's woven in Palestine, not some factory overseas. And I can't wait to see you wearing it in the. Yeah, I will, I will wear it, but I wanted to wait until we recorded the ad to show it just because it just comes in this nice package. And because it's, you know, it's got a little printout of where it was made, how it was made.

1:03:38And you know, just it's nice to, I wanted to do the unboxing here on the ad. Well, then rip it open while I read the next few sentences. Yeah, you go ahead. When I'm choosing anything like this, you know, products from the region products displaying Palestinian culture, it's especially important. I want to know that my purchase supports Palestinian artisans and their families, not just companies trying to make a buck off the Palestinian struggle or Palestinian identity or Palestinian iconography or whatever. And at Halah Palestine, you know, we know full well that our purchases are doing just that. They're supporting actual Palestinian artisans and their families. That's right. You can feel good about shopping with them. That's right. And in Arabic, Hala means welcome. And that's the feeling I get from these, you know, great pieces that Halah Palestine sent me. This is the beautiful cafe. I love this so much. This material is just incredibly soft. And, you know, of course, I love the design that it trees.

1:04:39It's beautiful. And then, you know, just the feel of it is nice. And speaking of, and speaking of welcome, when we were enjoyed in the hospitality of our Palestinian host was so much, and they literally say, when you walk, when you're meeting someone, they'll say, you are welcome. Yes, they do. They do. And like, you haven't thanked them for anything, but they're just letting you know, you are welcome. That's right. You know, that's right. Yeah. So you can get a 10% discount, a 10% discount on any of the great products at halahpalastein.com with the offer code bad has barra. That's right. You can feel good about where your money is going when you shop at halahpalastein.com. I think I almost said, Hala. It's Hala. Hala. Hala. They taught us how to say that age when we were there too. That's right. They tried to unhaw, you know, they're like, get that goddamn khah out of there. They said, imagine opening a, like a can of soda. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hala. Palestine is and use the code bad has barra. That's h-a-l-a-palastine.com offer code bad has barra for 10% off.

1:05:44Thank you so much to Hala Palestine for this beautiful kaffir and for the soaps. And now back to our regular release scheduled program. And we're back as bad as barra. The world's most moral podcast. How you doing, Daniel? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing all right. I talked a lot during that last segment and you know what? Maybe it's time for me to, I don't know, give the floor. Little bit. You're your friend Daniel Mate. Little vocal rest for you. Well, I want you to chime in whenever you want to. I'm a chime in a lot because I have a lot to say about. You have a lot to say about. So we're going to spend the rest of this show talking about. So I think a very interesting, discursive moment. An interesting moment in the sort of range of topics that this show covers. I think it's very illuminating. It's a little spicy because we don't spend a lot of time on this podcast.

1:06:50Critically examining anti-zionist tactics and rhetoric and dissenting from and objecting to certain positions within that movement. You know, I think any broad based movement is going to have a lot of strategic and tactical disagreements. But this podcast is not a movement show. It's an anti-zionist satire show and the has barra industry gives us more than enough material for two episodes a week more than we can possibly do with. So we usually decide when there is some kind of controversy. You know, it's just not our lane and it's not worth getting into. It's also not that funny. In this case, we're not doing it for the laws, but I think there are laws to be had. But I think it's actually of, it's rather serious and interesting and hopefully illuminating for everyone listening and for the two of us. So, yeah. So we're talking about the outcry, the multisided outcry, the full stereo, the full surround

1:07:50sound outrage out. Yeah, exactly. T.H.X. Remember the THS? Yeah, THS. Yeah, we're getting fucking barrage, a wall of sounding off right now. That's right. Yeah. A wall of sounding off. It's very good. That's great. See, I'm good too. Yeah, sometimes when I quarterback, you get to pun. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. When you're a quarterback, I'm just, I'm not listening to your words. No, you're getting ready for the bit. Yeah, the bit. Yeah, yeah. So great. Let's keep going. That's fun. Yeah. Over the new documentary, which just premiered at and won the special jury prize at the Venice Film Festival, namely, Nasa. Now, just to get it out of the way for anyone wondering, what is this title? Nasa, which sounds like some kind of weird play on Nazi and Gaza. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And unfortunate coincidences of Israeli Hebrew that NZ or noon, Saudi with the vowels attached is a acronym. It's not got nothing to do with Gaza for the words collateral damage.

1:08:52Like Sahal is the acronym for IDF. The words making up the phrase, if it's still defense forces becomes Sahal. Nasa is the phrase for collateral damage. It's been in use for decades. And it's heavily involved in it. It's not the name of the technology discussed in this film. I'm unclear on that. But the film is made by Yuvala Abraham and Rachel Soar, who are two of the directors of no other land. They're obviously the two Jewish Israeli directors of it. The Palestinian directors of it were busy having their villages destroyed. And in no world would have been able to make a film like this. And they filmed it in secret, kind of like Nathan Fielder with Elizabeth Holmes over the past year. In Tel Aviv, undercover of night, filming interviews with anonymized Israeli military people, drone operators, Air Force people, intelligence people, commanders who spoke on

1:09:56condition of anonymity, testifying to confessing to, I don't know how guiltily, but basically giving a kind of testimony about and blowing the whistle on the systems, the mechanics, the digital AI mechanics of genocide, which target our codenamed Nasa. They target civilian homes. And they, again, I haven't seen it. I just bought my ticket to see it at the New York Film Festival in two weeks. So I'll be able to give you a full review then. The sense I get is that it's a very dry and grim series of interviews of people just admitting to the war crimes they participated in, not as individuals, but as carrying out a systemic policy, implementing very, very carefully designed technology, which can track exactly who's in a civilian home when they're there, when they're not there. And we've been on the… Silence the movie. You know, like breaking the silence is this Israeli organization that interviews former

1:11:00IDF soldiers who are going, I'm not sure how often they are on record or if they are anonymized with breaking the silence either. I'm not really sure. Many of them are anonymized, yes. Yeah, I imagine quite a few are anonymized and very pretty rarely does anyone reporting an actual war crime show their face and admit that they themselves were doing it. But that's what it sounds like to me from the description. Yes, although I should say that a nonprofit organization that speaks mostly in Hebrew, they do American tours. But breaking the silence definitely has this goal of trying to wake Israelis up to what their government is doing and they have for a long time. We can see and a lot of Palestinians have pointed this out as when I was having a conversation with Ronnie Barkan, an Israeli-born Jewish, although he doesn't identify as Jewish or Israeli anymore, lives in Europe now, who likens Yuv al-Abraham and the making of this film too,

1:12:04breaking the silence in a pejorative way, which is to say it exists to run cover for Launder and anonymize and thus protect the identities of people so they can't be brought to justice. But differently, because when it comes to a documentary film that's going to debut at a major international film festival and will be seen internationally, I think documenting these things at the highest level has, whether or not we know the names of the individuals being interviewed, they're the low-level soldiers. They're not barksdale and stringer. We're building something here and all the pieces matter. That's how I feel about it. I have this long interviewing booty and they're interviewing pooped. If you want guns or drugs on the table so you can feel good that we nabbed someone and the accountable, but people will get into what the discourse has been.

1:13:06I don't want to jump the gun on this. But yeah, there has been a lot of conversation about what is the value of anonymous sources. I think of investigative journalism throughout history that has broken things like the Meal Eye Massacre and a whole lot of other things which rely on anonymous testimony, which nonetheless is instrumental in either building the case that will bring people to justice or at the very least, and this is how you and I think of ourselves in some kind of propaganda war. Where any counter has borrow war, you and I are not part of the resistance. You and I are not on that planet in and or. I think we're living in and or not avatar. That's my view. This is not a story in which it's going to be the blue indigenous people who are going to rise up and against all the odds take down their imperial colonial racist oppressors with the help of a few class traders like Jigsaw Lee. We're living in much more of a thing where there's multiple star systems, multiple planets, totally different material realities, different leverage points, different points of entry,

1:14:10different abilities to make a contribution coming from different sectors. Some of those sectors would never speak to each other if they had the choice because they totally disagree. They have totally and they have vicious arguments about what's important, but somehow some kind of organization or at least everyone making that little contribution to move towards the day when we can hit the empire at its weakest points strikes me as the better model for where we're at. When it comes to that, that that reaches one of the core points of disagreement here is does and is really a journalist, filmmaker, artist, activist like you have all Abraham who doesn't seem to be the kind of guy to shout free Palestine in front of 90,000 people or anywhere and who doesn't talk about destroying his entire country. Although he does talk about I want to replace the system with whatever it needs to be peace and justice, but he doesn't talk in the radical language that we'd like. Then he make a contribution. Is there something he can do? What he's done and him and Rachel Shorov done is to make this film and they presented

1:15:11the Venice Film Festival and it got a 25 minute standing ovation, which is a weird thing with these film festivals. I think specifically Venice is that works are judged by how long the standing ovation goes on, which is I think one of the more grotesque spectacles that I think you can see is a bunch of people seeing how long they can clap for the fucking, you know, the next patting to the movie or whatever. It's a very weird thing that's done and in a now famous viral video, you see them both receiving that accolade and the reaction to that on all sides has been interesting and it's kind of the subject of what we're talking about. And if you look at it, they look extremely uncomfortable. And from what I was told, I read a thread that said, from someone who worked on the film, they initially wanted to leave after the screening.

1:16:13They didn't want us to go on for that. Oh, yes, Dylan from the Trayf Podcasts, formerly of the Trayf Podcasts and now a 972 plus magazine, yeah, it was very good. But they were advised by people close to them that they should stay and be part of that moment, even if it's uncomfortable. And they look, they look sick, actually. And then when you've all Abraham spoke, when they received a special jury prize, he used his speech to say, this is a complicated experience for me to accept this. The story we're telling was told by God's journalists three years ago, but 200 of them killed a Palestinian filmmaker could not have made this. He said that in the six days since we got to Venice, six Palestinian children have been killed. And he cited the circumstances. So he did what he could in that moment to counter which the criticism which he knew was going to come at him for centering himself, centering Palestinians. But nonetheless, that opt the optics of two Israelis standing there and being applauded

1:17:15for their bravery. And truly, as you think you're pointing to, they're not being applauded for their bravery. They're being applauded for Europeans feeling of their own bravery for being at a film festival and watching political films. It's the most European thing. I guess maybe they do it in the States too, but I mean, we also venerate filmmakers here too. It's true. It's also, I mean, the liberals making statements, you know, post genocide about any conflict is there's going to be standing ovation for your movie about the me live massacre or your movie about the Holocaust from Libs. This is how it is. They're applauding themselves. If anyone wants to film themselves giving this episode a standing ovation, you have to watch, listen all the way to the end. You can't just do it in the middle of it. That's right. Yes. But if you want to film yourself standing that in, we will send out a prize to whoever does the longest standing ovation. Yeah, you'll get the same medal that Chris Brown got from Jasmine Crockett.

1:18:20So anyway, Dems were the optics. Yeah. And that was what set it off. Now, we're going to get into the topic of pro Palestine people who were not so happy about this and who had a lot to say about it. But first, this is bad as Barat. We want to look at the Hasbarati. Yeah. Right. The people with power, the people with power. Yeah. There's the of the two critics, the pro Palestine critics of Uval and the movie in general and the pro Israel. This is the side with the power. They have the power. I'd say both sides have influence, but only one side has the power. Yes. Yes. Influence within this course. It's a sure. It's a nebulous compared to the power. We're about to talk about. But yeah, that is correct. So we're first going to look at some of the hardline Zionist reactions. Here's Benny Gantz.

1:19:20And by the way, none of these are from the current right wing government. These are all from the would be replacements to the right wing government. These are from the centrist. Yeah. Benny Gantz. Those behind the movie have never set foot in the battlefield. No or do I ever wish they will have to do so. I'm fighting in the most just war since Israel's reestablishment. Reestablishment. Reestablishment? I assume that's the 48 or 67. I don't know. I don't know. He needs 48. No, of course he's talking Bible. Yeah. Israel one was crazy. Israel part two is. Israel point one point. No, it was crazy. Against a murderous group capable in willing to murder women and children, the IDF upholds itself to the highest moral and legal standard. I'm sorry. I'm just reading the part against a murderous group capable and willing to murder women and children, the IDF. That's all I'm reading. Yeah. If we could just take that line, murderous group, willing to murder women and children, the highest.

1:20:21Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Base Benny. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks to Twitter formatting there. As former IDF chief of staff and minister of defense, I can unequivocally attest to that. Anyone who lacks this basic understanding should just keep on making fiction. Okay. Okay. Okay. So very dismissive. Here's Nufth Tali Bennett, another stalwart, sent just alternative to a genocidal pain. Got to get rid of Netanyahu. So this guy can also be pro genocide. Yesterday, a film accusing Israel of genocide premiered. It's a horrific blood libel against our sons and daughters. What makes it especially painful and infuriating is that this lie came from Israeli filmmakers and is now being spread around the world. At this point, they're just saying, these Israelis are doing anti-Semitism and it's like, you have the term means nothing. Well, that's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. Okay. Cool. Well, he wants us to get the facts straight. On October 7th, Hamas invaded Israel to murder Jews. Hamas terror has slaughtered children in front of their parents and parents in front of

1:21:25their children. They burned homes, raped women. They didn't either of those things. And kidnapped babies. They kidnapped. I think one baby. The only baby who died on that day was accidentally shot through a wall and the others were killed by Israeli health fire missiles, I believe. Children and elderly people. Then Hamas fled back to Gaza and deliberately hid behind its own civilians using them as human shields in homes, schools and hospitals. That's our job. And when Israel fights back and civilians are treachery killed in this terrible war, tragic. Israel is killed, accused of genocide. There is no magic button that can destroy Hamas or any terrorist organization hiding behind civilians. But there is a magic button that can create more Hamas and that's what we're trying to do here in Gaza. Right. There's no magic button that can destroy them without harming a single civilian. It simply does not exist. So that's why we've invented thousands of magic buttons that can kill civilians in the hope that we'll destroy Hamas in the process.

1:22:25That's why we've invented magic words that turn civilian into a non-entity. And everyone into Hamas. Yes. And magic hot button words like blood Bible. That's right. In interviews with the international media, I always ask, what would you do? They never have an answer. You know what's funny? It's like, yeah, it's because you're probably being interviewed by some fucking, you know, someone who works for a Zionist entity that's going to say, hey, you better not fucking say anything too, because anyone normal person would say, oh, I don't know. How about something between nothing and genocide? That's what a normal person would have said and did say at the beginning of it. It's like, there's always like this idea that like people can never answer the question, what should Israel have done? And it's like, no, people are answering that all the time. You just think it's anti-Semitic. You just think that it's unacceptable that the answer to, you know, what to do after

1:23:27October 7th is, I don't know. He stopped being a racist fucking apartheid state that's keeping these people in an open air prison. That'll actually help a lot with the whole they want to break out and fucking go to war with you. Maybe take some responsibility for once for the situation you've created. They never have an answer, but also the people he's talking about never have a follow question either. That's right. All right. Next slide. This is part two of Nufftelli Bennett. If Israel wanted to hurt the people of Gaza, we would not send our sons and daughters to fight house to house. Oh, such garbage through alleyways and tunnel at the terrible cost of our own soldiers being killed and wounded. It's a these motherfuckers had turned Gaza into a fucking giant rubble graveyard using drones, using fucking artillery. They have been doing their best to not be near anything that they think is inhabited unless it's inhabited by civilians. They can snipe.

1:24:28The world's most cowardly fucking army. Right. We would not send our sons and daughters to fight house to house. We would also not send our daughters to go house to house into abandoned houses, put on the walls, right? Anti Muslim, anti Arab graffiti, dress up in lingerie, steal their food, do TikTok dance videos, you know, detonate other houses in the neighboring area and dedicated to their infant daughters. We really wanted to destroy gauzeons. We would do that shit from the comfort of our couches until they leave. Yes. Fuck you. We would not warn civilians before strikes and evacuate there. I mean, they're just arresting. They're just arresting. They're just fucking shit. 20, 24 bullshit, right? The war in Gaza is terrible. The death of every child is a tragedy and we have caused 1200 tragedies per day. But a terrible war is not genocide. Even now Hamas doesn't regret October 7th. It's rearming and waiting for another opportunity to carry out a massacre.

1:25:28Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The people standing between us and the next massacre are our soldiers and reservists, our sons and daughters who put their lives at risk so that we can live here safely. I love them. I am proud of them. I am deeply grateful to them to portray them as perpetrators of genocide is not courageous art. It is a cowardly blood libel and I will not remain silent. Right. It's they themselves who are doing so. I'm sorry, but like you're talking about you're mad at this documentary, you know, because of the fact that it's the soldiers themselves who are going on camera, anonymous as they are and talking about all of the genocide that they are perpetrating. They are not being portrayed by the filmmaker. They themselves are telling on themselves. Right. And they are anonymizing themselves unlike the Israeli soldiers who named themselves film themselves, front facing, full faces, doing the things. That's right. Yeah.

1:26:29And did so with impunity. Right. And not only that, but enough time only Bennett is not really mad for their sons and daughters because he knows that this film points the finger at way above them, which is him and its government and the systems they knowingly use. The IDF went so far as to try to debunk one claim from a clip from the movie. This is completely false. The IDF has never planned approved or carry out a strike in Gaza with in which 500 civilians we have a hard cap at 498 or anything near that number were anticipated to be killed. Nor was a credible claim raised throughout the war suggesting that the IDF strike had caused anything near that number of fatalities. And here's where they get into some fun fuzzy logic. The filmmakers couldn't possibly verify this claim. There is no real supporting evidence and yet they published it anyway. Additionally, nothing about the interviewee nor his service nor his role can be independently checked and verified.

1:27:30Oh, damn, that must suck. And they're doing this dual thing of both. It's totally false. It's unverifiable and it's classified. Right. So it's illegal to talk about it. Right. Yeah. And also, can you please give us the name and address of the people who set this because we just want to prove that they're lying. That's all we want to do. Yeah. And we have ways to make them talk. We have ways to, we have crocodiles for that. I just want them to sign this, you know, this form real quick that really pushes them of their rights to. Yeah. We just want them to sign this DNR. I mean, NDA. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, both. No such strike was ever planned, approved or carried out. Yeah. This is the claim the filmmakers chose to promote their movie with Judge the Rest accordingly. Yeah. So now we get into some galaxy brain takes from non-affiliated or, you know, non-institutional signus. I don't know who Adam Fisher is, but this was fantastic.

1:28:30Regarding this film, one, Naza is Hebrew for collateral damage or unintended civilian casualties. There would be no reason to assess, count or consider Naza if the intention weren't to minimize or avoid it. Mm-hmm. Right. So the fact, so the word collateral damage was invented. How does a euphemism for the thing that we're happy to do? Uh-huh. But as a watch word so we can try not to do it. That's right. Yeah. We had to remind people that it's bad to have collateral damage. That's why we named it that. That's right. Yeah. Total. Totally makes sense. This is particularly difficult against an enemy like Hamas for whom collateral damage means the same Palestinian civilian casualties. Israel is trying to avoid. Oh, that's fun. That's fun. Yeah. So why should we? I mean, we do. I mean, we do. That's what I meant. To avoid any misunderstanding, its terrorists filmed their atrocities. Bro. And fire hundreds of indiscriminate rockets in Israel were a third of the population or children.

1:29:35Okay, hold on a second. Well, a half of the population in Gaza are children. All right. And Israel's terrorists also filmed their actual atrocities and posted it themselves. Yeah. Not on some slack channel or whatever and not and didn't have to be cobbled together deceptively by Hamas propagandists. Yeah. But no, it's crazy. These guys are are. And the indiscriminate rockets have killed one child or something. Those indiscriminate rockets have killed one out of those third of Israeli journalists. Yeah, but they killed more. They do kill more if they could. That's right. They can't because we keep killing their children first. That's right. Now this guy, I love when people say things like this where they're like, you know, these guys, you know, film their atrocities as if we don't have this podcast in which we just show them filming their, the IDF filming their atrocities all the time. I'm just like, who are you trying to convince here? We're on a platform that helped people actually see as not see as fucking, you know, Twitter

1:30:40is now under Elon's ownership that people help people see all of the fucking videos coming out of Gaza of these Israeli war crimes. So what are you fully? Who's this for? His third point reiterates the IDF's claim about that there couldn't have been a strike resulting in Favid Odets. Number four. I don't blame outsiders for their ignorance. I don't blame Auslandas for their ignorance. By the way, this is a, this is a I generated bullshit. That's what this is. I'm just looking at this is at Adam R Fisher and it's got, you know, like this is this that I'm this is what it is. Whenever it's in this bullet point listed thing like this, I'm always like, all right, so this is one of many fucking sock puppet accounts that the IDF and, you know, Israel likes to employ to do all of their property. Maybe that's not where my mind goes, but it might be, but regardless, I don't blame outsiders for their ignorance. Most of the liberal world has forgotten what it means to fight a war on the home front.

1:31:43Its wars are fought with secret commando missions, sterile air strikes and distant battles. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, those page attacks were on home soil. That's right. Assignations of every negotiator within a 6,000 mile radius. Yeah. As much easier to condemn the calculation that justifies an attack knowing innocent people may die when your own family isn't under attack if you don't make it. Yeah. Five, the film, and here we go. And here's where some of the critics of Naza from the anti-Zionist side will be able to gain some, some, some seeming credence for their claims because it will, the fact of it will be used to try and debunk what the film says. The fact that a film like Naza can be made in Israel is itself a sign of a healthy democracy, which is why we have to revoke their citizenship. That's right. Its writers and directors can accuse their own country and fellow citizens of grave wrong doing and remain free to make their case. Well, maybe not. Oh, free is interesting. Yeah. One thing is guaranteed. We will never see a Palestinian film about Hamas's atrocities on October 7th, nor even

1:32:45an Arab one. Everyone knows why. Sixth. Freedom, and this is his butt. Yeah. Freedom does not confer immunity from criticism and antipathy. The director and sometimes antipathy and criticism can take many different forms, you know? Right. Like, revoking you of your freedom. Yeah, or getting shot in the head like it's like rubbing. That's right. The director and participants made the film intending to damage their country's respitation. They are entitled to make that choice. They are also expected to accept the appropriate and consequences that come with it. Freedom to accuse does not mean freedom from being judged for the accusation. That's right. And now we're starting to get into the threat zone. Yeah. Michael Livechitz, I'm sure he does. He lives them all the time. Sure. You live shit, dude. I got my live shit bracelet. I got my live shit bracelet. Yeah. You live shit's bracelet. You live shit's bracelet. Come on, live. He's saying it's a bracelet. Live shit's bracelet. Live shit's bracelet is a live straw gun. Yeah.

1:33:45Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've all Abraham is most likely even more. So, okay. And here is another place where there's a kind of strange mirror imaging going on between the people hating the movie from one side and from the other. Because we're going to see people being like, you've all up, Abraham's not an anti-synast, he's a liberal Zionist. He's not trying to destroy Israel. He's trying to redeem Israel. He's trying to redeem its image and reform it and set it back on some kind of illusory humane path, right? And that means that the movie has no value, which is a premise that I reject. But anyway, this guy is coming out of from the other angle. He's most likely even more restrained in his public statements than he would like to be. But in this case, there's no need to read between the lines to understand that he is opposed to Israel as a state. Because if Yuval's initiatives were ever implemented in practice, they would spell the end of the Jewish state. Imagine if Hamas possessed military capabilities identical or comparable to those of the IDF. Would that lead to peace? It would be delusional to think so. Hamas would not wait a second before attacking Israel. Whether Yuval sees a peaceful outcome in his idealistic illusions is another question.

1:34:47What is beyond doubt, however, is that his friends adhere to one single correct approach, the one demonstrated in October 7th. And he's citing an interview with Abraham where he says that he's in favor of any solution, two states or one state. It doesn't matter that delivers freedom and justice and some kind of humane future for everyone. That's right. And Michael Lipschitz is doing the thing that all Zionists do, which is to say freedom for Palestinians will always inevitably end with the death of all Jews remaining. And it's just like this. What's incredible is that when he says you don't have to read between the lines, he's clear that Yuval is a, you know, an anti-Zionist mole. He's trying to destroy the state. And when other people read between the lines, they're clear that he's trying to preserve the state. And they're locked between lines. Right. And even people who I respect who are posting things like, yeah, this whole trying to revoke their citizenship and all the backlash in Israel, it's all part of the K-fabe, right?

1:35:50Because we have to, they have to make them look like heroes. I don't know how Cosmos brained you have to be. Israel's pretending to freak out. That's right. Yeah. As you know, Israel is, most of the time very restrained when it comes to these things. Before this all happened, Yuval, Yuval and Vinny Gantz all got together. Yeah. Firebug and Macklemore for from doing an edge sheer and tour. I feel that Israel would freak out even more about something like this, but, you know, whole. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Moving on to this one, when you suddenly realize that it wasn't worth selling your eternal soul for 25 minutes of applause, but it's already too late and it's a picture of them looking tired and embarrassed and uncomfortable, dressed up. It's all in black at this premiere. This is from a Zionist. We have also seen people looking at the exact same picture and being like, look at these two grifters, profiting off Palestinian blood, getting applause and profit.

1:36:53I don't know what profit they're getting. So anyway, it's another case as we're approaching a part of the conversation where we're going to talk about this horseshoe. But before we do, we have to get to my favorite of these tweets. At the end of this fuckquake of discourse over the last two days. Sam Hine. This is Mr. Hyde. This is a different Sam Hyde than I know. Who's Sam Hyde? There's like a Nazi Sam Hyde out there who's an ex-commediate and turns Nazi streamer or something like that. Anyways, different. Well, I think they'd get along. They might. This one is the funniest one I've ever seen. No serious documentary about Gaza's wartime systems can ignore the world's most singular system. It's 400 miles of tunnels built for combat by the Huzu initiated the war and made them the center of their military strategy. That is the only truly unprecedented system of the war. That's right. So the idea that number one, it's the only incredibly organized military system involved in this war.

1:37:54And number two, that it's unprecedented. People have never used tunnels before. Yeah, it's like the new technology. You can't talk about Gaza's wartime systems without talking about the most important system of all. My central nervous system, which is filled with fear and anxiety over the fact that some people want Palestinians to live. So let's, you can't talk about one without the other. We have to have a systems analysis. Exactly. That's right. All right. So I think that brings us to the end of the Zionist freakouts. There was a Zionist reaction I want to just touch on very briefly in Haaretz from Reveved Rocker. We're moving through things quickly here. But I think it's interesting to take a kind of holistic survey of it. So here's Reveved Rocker who fashions himself quite a progressive. Watching Gaza shocked me. So did what its creators left out. Missing verifiable details, Hamas's role in crucial context, the film weakens its journalism

1:38:56and risks alienating the Israelis it needs to read. So here's the constructive criticism version from the Liberals on the street. Oh, I would have totally been like, damn, the genocide is bad if it weren't for these mistakes they made in the framing and the mise en scene. Yeah. So let's take a look at it. Just about to join the cause. I've never found a film so difficult to watch. I physically cringed in my seat. Gaza made me feel like a German during World War II, hearing what my own people had done. The feeling was so intense that it brought out the defensive Israeli in me eager to explain. And now I go, here I go, time to head spear. There's no self-awareness that that defensive Israeli in me is like the defensive German in like that's a kid. He thinks that the defensive Israeli is somehow endearing or understandable. No, that's part of it. Yes, yes. And he's about to indulge it. I know Yuval Abraham, one of the film's two creators, and have no doubt about his integrity.

1:39:57I'm personally familiar with some of the accounts in the film. Innocent Gossens shot for crossing a line that couldn't have known existed. Hungry Gossens shot and killed after going to Israeli established aid centers for food and crossing the boundaries imposed on them. I'm glad you're familiar with them. Yeah. It's good to know that you've heard about it. We've met. We ran into each other at a cocktail party. Yes. We've met. We've met. We ran into each other at a cocktail party. The term refers to civilian collateral damage. And again, I just have to say it's the most Israeli-rhyming irony. Like Israeli rhyming slang is when genocidal military terms rhyme with the place you're genociding. Yeah. Yeah. It's unfortunate. It's unfortunate. The number of innocent people expected to be killed in a strike on a specific military target. That number seemed disproportionate to the target's importance. Being above zero would be disproportionate, you fucking ghoul. These were painful things to watch. At the Venice Film Festival, the film received a lengthy ovation. Now comes a big butt. Hell yeah.

1:40:58He said to himself, butt. I like it. And I'm aware that it may come from defensiveness. Oh, and Iota. A centilla of self-awareness. I love it. But you're right. Go anyway. I love it. I love it. This is a problem with therapy. Okay. And this is, you know, this is the one thing I've said from the beginning. People think that self-awareness is like the beginning of the end of, you know, your path to being cured. At this point, it's not knowing yourself means fucking nothing if you're just going to just repeat the same fucking neurological issues. Babe, I'm going to say something here. And I'm aware that it might come partly from the violent misogyny. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So I'm going to say something here. And I'm aware that it might be a function of the fact that I'm black out drunk as I have been every other day of your life. Yeah. Listen, this might come from a place of I want you to die and I'm going to enjoy seeing you die. I can only make space for that. And I hope you hold space for it too when I'm killing you with my night.

1:41:59Because all we are is two bodies in a space. That's true. And then there'll be one body and one corpse. And I think that your body has too much blood pumping through it. Yeah. Corpse is in spaces is what we're all about. That's right. All right. Here's this big blood. So title submission. Corpse is in spaces. Yes. But there's a few others too. Pink washed, I think would be good. Anyway, first presenting such disturbing testimonies without factual details that would allow to them to be verified is a serious problem. Soldiers describe being part of a machine that deliberately killed thousands of innocent civilians. But there's no date, no location, not even a single identifiable incident to investigate. There's also no machine. At no point did they open a door, go into a cellar. And there was a big computer on the wall going bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep. I am here to kill Palestinians. Yeah. I have been programmed to commit the genocide. That's right. Don't worry. It's not your fault. I love you saying that they're raging against a non-existent machine.

1:42:59This, yeah. This motherfucker is straight up just being like, and here are all the caveats that I have in my mind for why I can continue to ignore this. And I'm just going to list them for you. And I'm aware that it might be coming from psychopathy. Yeah, exactly. But that just makes me more woke, if you think about it. Here comes the wokewashing using breaking the silence, which again, lands credence to some of the criticisms coming from anti-signers who are not impressed by all of this Israeli hand-ringing and inventorying and seed. It is just one more example of shooting and crying. And I have some sympathy for that view again, even though I think it's being wrong-headedly and prejudicially applied in this case. It's an understandable feeling. Years ago, we at Channel 13's The Source, Hamakor, investigated testimonies given to breaking the silence in Israeli organization that collects accounts from Israeli soldiers about their service in Gaza and the West Bank. We found that several didn't hold up. The witnesses hadn't lied.

1:44:00Neither had the organization. Sometimes human memory is unreliable. Sometimes the soldier giving the account doesn't have the full picture. And so, you know, if we're going to use their testimonies to debunk the absolutely reliable and never fallible has bar a line of our proud military, we need to be able to triple-check, triple-blind confirm it because it's a high standard of proof given how truthful our propagate is. We need to be able to know the exact details of the soldier and the very specific time and place in which they allegedly committed these war crimes so that we can verify it or deny it whichever happens first. That's right. And so we can round them up and ask them some questions. How can we say nah-ah? If you haven't yet told us the yaha, if you haven't given us the yaha, you can't get a nah-ah. Don't shut up. I'm sorry. If you don't have any yaha, you can't have any nah-ah.

1:45:04Exactly. If you don't eat your yaha, exactly. Shout out to the other pink, the good pink Roger Walsh. Yeah. The floiders. That's right. The film occasionally offers hints about the context on this sketch. Incredible here, Matt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Offers hints about the context in which these terrible things were done. Between testimonies, we see people dining in Tel Aviv restaurants. One soldier says all he cared about was completing the mission. Another explicitly draws a comparison to the Nazis. A third described how much he enjoyed the work. The impression is that killing innocent guys and children was fun, but could his enjoyment have come from believing at the time that he was helping the strike at Hamas? That's true. Don't kinshame. Don't yuck people's yum. Let people enjoy things like killing children when they think it's justified. That's right. Exactly. It's just like, hey, sorry. I thought I was killing a racist, you know, when I was doing a giant race based pogrom.

1:46:07Like these guys, you can't, you can't just superimpose Hamas and to someone else's memories. Remember at Nuremberg when I met him at night? He beat his wife. Well, he thought his wife was Hamas, maybe. Maybe for a second is PTSD was like, oh, shit, I thought it was Hamas. That's my bet. And that's, that's excusable. Do you remember it? You remember when that high up SS officer said, yes, I killed thousands of Jews every month. But to be fair, I enjoyed it because I thought they were subhuman. They needed to be wiped off the planet and were a threat to the master race. And he was like, go. He was given a parade. Yeah, I'm sorry that I'm sorry. I didn't know that they weren't actually human rats. Okay. I think all of these contexts are legitimate. The film would have been true or to reality if it included other more relevant ones. For example, the interviews could have been asked how they were affected by videos of hostages and captivity and accounts of what Hamas had done.

1:47:09What is this? Like temporary insanity. Do you think it's like he doesn't, he wanted them to be granted temporary sanity. He wants their base to be. Yeah. Yes, this is all the whole October 7th, washing and fucking everything. It exists for this specific purpose, which is to go, you have to understand how traumatized all of us were by October 7th. They've been saying this shit from fucking the beginning about this. Even to the point where, you know, they were even offered fucking to get hostages back early on the fucking same day. It was recently reported in this newspaper, Horat. And they're like, guys, we can't talk to you right now. We're just feeling a lot of trauma. It's like, do you want the hostages back? Let me grieve. Let me grieve. Oh, and by the way, another pro-Palestine person had the cosmos-brained thing of, hmm, anyone wonder about the timing of the release of this movie just after those revelations about

1:48:10Netanyahu and October 7th? Yeah. The Venice Film Festival was planned around that. I don't even understand that criticism. Yeah, I don't think I even understand that criticism. It's like this is now a distraction from that. How was that a distraction? Aren't they both the same? They're both talking about the same thing, which is the Israeli complicity in genocide. Everything you just said about how this is what they've been using to, I mean, I've said this part, they've been using it to fluff themselves up, keep themselves engorged with rage, rage, and now impunity. It's depicted beautifully and very disturbingly and controversially in that film I keep talking about. Nadav Lapid's, yes, in which, after visiting with an ex-girlfriend of his, the protagonist, the anti-hero of the movie, she has now become a self-described Hezbollah agent. She works for the Hezbollah department. She says so. She uses that word. And she lists off this litany of all the things they did to us on October 7th. She drives him to the foot of a hill in Stairot, it turns out. And as he walks up that hill, he's repeating what she said to himself, just maniacally. And he's just repeating it, repeating it, repeating it, repeating it, repeating it, he gets

1:49:12to the top and we actually are seeing the real Gaza with real smoke going up. And he screams out, you fucking bastards. And he takes out the lyrics to the genocidal apartheid song that he's composed, the song of annihilation. So you can't, he can't himself pump up. He can't himself, and you can see what strain it is. And he has to do it. And so people who accused that scene of repeating October 7th lies, I say no, it's depicting the uses of those stories to gas people up. To gas people up. This is all about the continued gasping up of people to act in humanely. This is the face of a documentary that's doing this. And this is again, where the critics of this movie are saying, what difference does it make? And you're right. And the Israeli context, mostly what difference does it make, at least for liberal pundits like this. They're going to do this fucking bullshit. I think there's a possibility of reaching people in the society, some of them, not nearly enough of them, but that's beside the point, because I think the film is also for an international audience. The film also offers no comparison with how other armusive, fat terrorist organizations

1:50:16embedded in civilian. All these contexts are more important according to the. I'm sorry, but also like, you know, one of the reasons they probably didn't want to offer that comparison is because you would be comparing them to how, you know, things that happen in, let's say, Serbia or things that happen to the IRA and the Irish like, or you'd have to, or you would have to come up with the statistics of how many Ukrainian civilians and children have been killed in four years of Russian invasion and find out that it was exceeded by Israel's death toll in like March of 2024. Yes, they're just like, you know, how come you didn't offer up a worse comparison just to try to get them, and it's like, you know, because y'all are the worst because you've been doing it bad. That's it. At one point Hamas's use of civilians as human shields comes up only to be sharply dismissed. Instead, we're told that we deliberately killed suspected Hamas operatives at home with

1:51:18their families at night using the AR system known as daddy's home because it was convenient. That may be so, but there's considerable convincing evidence that Hamas used civilian as human shields. No, there isn't. No. No. No. Hamas placed infrastructure in command centers in schools and hospitals. No. No, it isn't. I'm sorry, but it's like at this point, this is why this is why we don't invite Zionists to come onto the show. This is why I don't like talking to Zionists because you start off with like a preamble that goes, here's where I'm willing to move and admit that this war crime happened, this war crime happened, this war crime happened. And you think for a second, I'm going to get some nuance out of the sky. I'm going to get at least or maybe something I hadn't even considered a perspective that has somehow eluded me for three years. And then we're just back to but human shields.

1:52:18I am, I am, I am fully willing to make sweet love to my conscience about being part of a genocide, a society. Now let me put on 20 condoms over it so that I can't feel a thing. I, it's just so annoying because he goes like, oh man, you know, this movie was almost effective, but it's suffered from it suffered from a few problems. One of the problems being that have they considered that maybe the civilians deserved to die. The other is, maybe the civilians were put in harm's way, not by us. The same shit you've been saying for three fucking years to justify the thing that's now being exposed. Right. The thing that made you sit and go, damn, am I the Nazi? No, it is the others who are the Nazi forever, principle, skinner, fired. Forever. I also questioned the account of Israeli Air Force strikes on buildings and neighborhoods where the IDF estimated that 25% of residents hadn't evacuated. One soldier works out on paper how the Air Force destroyed whole sections of these neighborhoods,

1:53:20killing hundreds or thousands of people on the grounds that they'd been told to evacuate. And what about those who didn't evacuate the interviewer asks, good luck to them. The soldier replies, I'm not aware of this happening to the best of my knowledge. It didn't. That's a complete paragraph. I never heard that. I never heard that. And deleted from my mind. After I heard it, this motherfucker is just constantly flashy thinking themselves from men in black and just being like, oh, I never even heard of that. I like cheese. It's Mr. Shark. It's the Tom Hanks sketch from NSNL in the early, and it's Mr. Shark's term memory. Yes, exactly. Just constantly fucking doery from finding me in my eyes. But then of course, we have to book it. He has to return to his, I really want a progressive turn in our society to end the article. He has to stick to the progressive landing. It's incredible. It looks like this film won't be screened in Israel.

1:54:22That's a shame. With a more journalistic approach and more room for complexity, it might have reached more Israelis and helped them understand how we operated in Gaza. It's too bad that the film shouldn't be seen here given that it doesn't repeat our propaganda. It might have, you know, it's a real bummer that this movie that made me feel like a Nazi is just not right for Israeli audiences in our free side. Correct. Correct. Okay. So that wraps up, I think, a pretty wide and fair. We spent a lot of time here on the Hasbara reactions to this from the fucking maniacally right wing, which is to say Israeli centrist. We didn't even look at it. I haven't even seen it. Right wingers like Smotrich haven't even said a thing about it. No, there was one reaction right here. This is the Israeli right has been posting this. Of course, an allusion to Ben Gaviere's constant wearing of a pin that is a noose.

1:55:29This is them, of course. I mean, they're doing the right wing thing of like, yeah, we know. These are some guys we got to kill. And you've all turned to her like James Franco in the ballot of Buster's Scroggs and says first time. First time, yeah. Yeah. But it's terrible. I mean, it's terrible. I marked for death and there's been Zionist. It's true. All the auto translate ones have said we can't wait for them. They're going to come back eventually. Don't worry guys. We know what to do with traders. So there's a long history of violence against people perceived as traders, even genocidal war criminals like it's like robbing who aren't genocidal enough for their service. Right. It was literally murdered for not being genocidal enough. And then you know, you have people with actual power like the Israeli government saying, Israel's culture minister threatens to revoke citizenship of the Gaza dog filmmakers. And these are real, these are real threats. I mean, these are real threats. Yeah, they are whether or not they actually do it. I mean, again, I don't know.

1:56:29I can't predict the future. But the only thing that they have to protect them is that they happen to be in a religious, a part-tied state in which they are the favorite group. That is the only thing that will save their skins from the government deciding whether or not to ban them permanently. And even that, I don't think is enough anymore. And again, you've all using a speech said that a Palestinian filmmaker couldn't have made this. They would have been killed before they even got to shoot it. Which is an interesting point. And I do want to now discuss what time we have left the sort of pro-Palestine reaction to this. I mean, I've had some conversations about this in which- I made a long Instagram video about it, or even the only thing- Yeah, that's right. Not for me, not so long, only 15 minutes. Yeah, usually you're drawing on and on. That's correct. But let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. So it's been decidedly split.

1:57:29And there's been a lot of people, including Palestinian accounts, saying, look, in fact, Liz Reid, Muhammad Shahat is take, which to me is the correct one. I just think- I mean, he's our most on-point guest. One of them, and I think this is just right on. Two things can be true. And this is it from a guy who was born in Gaza, lived there much of his life. And that's not tokenism, but just keep it in mind, who's speaking here. Two things can be true. Nasa is a crucial documentary evidence against genocide deniers. And we live in a frighteningly hippocritical world that applaud Israelis who call out a part that in genocide while shaming and disbelieving and sometimes murdering Palestinians who say the exact same words. Like when German culture minister Claudia Roth said her applause at the 2024 Berlinial was solely directed Israeli journalist Yvonne Labraham and not his Palestinian co-director Basel Osra, who was with him on stage. Yeah, we covered that on the show. The sound of half a hand clapping. That's right. Yeah.

1:58:30And Israeli saying genocide at the part side is quote brave and extraordinary. The Palestinian using the same words is radical, extremist, propagandist, anti-Semitic and uncompromising. Palestinian testimonies and evidence are treated as biased, exaggerated, unreliable until Israelis say otherwise. 100% true. We need a former Israeli prime minister to say this ethnic cleansing and the West Bank for European governments to believe it. We need a former Israeli foreign minister to say that Camp David was a scam and that if he was Palestinian, he would have rejected it. In order to debunk the myth of the most Israeli generous peace, the most generous Israeli peaceover that's offered. That's Shlomo Ben-Ami on democracy now opposite Norma Finklstein. We need the Israeli newspaper, Aharetz, to say Israel is torturing Palestinians to death and attention camps for the world to believe what we've been documenting and saying for years. We always need an Israeli to lend legitimacy and credibility to our meticulous and impeccable advice. Okay. I mean, I'll go far to that. Yeah, go far. Go far to that. What you need, a fucking couple of jerk off American and Canadian Jews to be the ones

1:59:39to say, hey, criticizing Israel is not anti-Semitic and don't let them continue. And to point out the blood on the fangs, hands on the globe, machinations of institutional Jewish organizations and individuals of personalities. Like to make the jokes that ought to be made by anyone about these people, we have to have that, you know, brisk red. Yes, exactly. So as far as he said so far, that echoes a unanimous set of criticisms coming from Palestinians and a lot of pro-Palestinians. Like what the fuck? It's fucking frustrating and disgusting. And it's very similar to also during no other land. And that was out. This was the, we've had this discussion before, you know, like this idea that the West needs Israelis to be the ones to tell these stories because Palestinians are just not believed. They're just, yeah, exactly. Correct. But what Muhammad is not going to do is to take that disgust and that systemic observation

2:00:43about the racism and hypocrisy and take a further leap to saying some of the things that are being being said. And I'll paraphrase some of the craziest takes I've seen, but hit, let me quote him. That shouldn't mean discounting Israeli dissenting voices who speak up. It doesn't mean devaluing the important work they do and the risks they take when they call out their own country's crimes. There's already been a giant wave of attacks from Israeli government and opposition leaders against the filmmakers of NASA. Shame and anger should be directed at mainstream places who suppress and sideline Palestinian voices while elevating Israelis who say the exact same message. The game is rigged against us, but that doesn't mean attacking Israeli dissidents like Yvall. It should rather mean that we and Israeli anti-apartheid activists should jointly call out and condemn those who set the rules of the game at every possible opportunity until Palestinian voices are heard and believed. What do our people stand to gain from attacking Yvall and discrediting this movie? Activism is about what works, what makes a difference, not what feels good.

2:01:46I've been saying that for months. It's about function, not ideology. It's not about what's in the person's heart. It's about what they're doing in the world and the effect it has. Even if that effect can be weaponized by bad faith actors. NASA is an important and crucial documentary that must be seen all around the world. So that strikes me as a morally intelligent woke in the best sense of the word, which is awake to the technology of the systems, but not giving into the libidinal impulse, therefore, to say, because I have the right to have these feelings, therefore, I'm going to draw whatever black-pilled conclusions come to mind. And I'm going to put them out there as a way of discrediting and in a dispositive way, dismissing the possible value of something like this. And I'm going to assume the worst about everyone involved. Yeah. It is, it is, it also is not discounting the criticism. It's not taking the criticism itself personally.

2:02:46And I think that is the problem that I've noticed between where this discourse is, is you've got, especially on Twitter, you've got this thing where people are always reacting to the reaction. That was a reaction to a reaction. What's John? Which I'm doing now. No, I mean, but this is a natural thing that people do, especially when they're stuck in these social media-feed loops, right? And so I see people getting yelled at by people who are using them as an avatar for the other voices that they heard that were maybe more hostile. And what I've noticed is there is the criticism. And you know, Yvall is profiting off of this. People are applauding this. This is unfair. We live in this unjust society. I want nothing to do with this film. I think it's bad. And then there's the criticism of that being like, what do you want us to do?

2:03:47You want these people are trying their best and you're out here discouraging them. And then you've got another, you know, former criticism, like, well, what am I? Oh, so I'm not allowed to say anything. And so everyone's just, you know, doing this in fighting. You talk about Andorra. And it's like the, in season two, there's a two episode arc at the very beginning in which you crash where he lands on a planet. And there's this faction of essentially rebels fighting each other. And they're using the imperial weapon of the, you know, the stolen at what he called tie fighter, not to fight the empire, but to try to turn it so that they can fire it on each other. And this is sort of what I see happening is like the weaponization of a leftist discourse being used to weaken it, to weaken our points of view and whatnot. And it's silly because there is, I think, a serious issue with the way people react to

2:04:54positive till stimulation. I think people think that activism is social media. And the dopamine, I think that you get from maybe a correct take. And sometimes outweigh a sort of a strongly worded ideological position. Yeah, it can overtake what it means to put things in the context of a tactic or a strategy. And my opinion about this is essentially this is part of the propaganda war. This is not going to be used for the sake of the legal retribution that needs to happen. And I think people are looking at it like, well, you've anonymized it. So it's just, it's not even useful legally. And it's like, yeah, but it's not, I don't think that's what it's for. Well, it could be, it could be cited. No, but it could be cited. The South African, ICC or ICJK's, whatever it was, cited, breaking the silence. They cited, are as the Bitsalam.

2:05:55I mean, these are all data points. Of course. Your collection, but that's not immediately the point of it. Now, here are some of the, here are some of the bonkers takes that I heard. And then I want to read a tweet from Rachel Fink that I think sums it up all very well. Like, sums up what drives me crazy about it. Because I don't, again, I'm not trying to shit on, I'm not trying to police how anyone feels and all of the revulsion at the optics of it and the desire to have nothing to do with the movie. If you don't trust the movie, fine, you don't trust the movie. But some of the claims being made, for instance, the purpose of this movie is to grant an permanent anonymity to these war criminals and to shield them. Well, if you wanted to shield them, you could just not interview them. You could just not talk about this. Number one, number two, part of investigative journalism from Seijersh to, you know, previous to that is, is, is people will talk to you on condition of anonymity. They'll talk to you on background and some of these things create leaks whistleblowers and seek state secrets being put out there.

2:06:57Okay. So that's just part of it. The idea that there's some kind of nefarious, you know, it's, it's, it's liberal genocidal murders protecting military genocidal murders is crazy to me. And number one is, well, Palestinians have been saying this for three years. Why do we need these, these Israelis to shoot and cry? Well, Palestinians saying it has run its course and a lot of them have been killed. And it's not the job of every centering people is one thing. But I've said this over and over again. To me, what makes the zone of interest so great is that it doesn't center Jews, it centers the perpetrators and it shows us the machinery and the mechanics by which my great grandparents were killed. My great grandparents are not in that movie. They are the smoke billing owing out of the chimneys in the background of the idyllic life of that German fucking Nazi commanders family. And that is true to life. And in the meantime, I get to see how this happened and the kinds of mechanisms.

2:07:58And I think that's a really important historical document. Now that's a film, a feature film, very different. And this is an ongoing genocide, but that cuts both ways because we're learning about it as it's happening and we're learning more details from the insight. I don't see how that doesn't have potential, tremendous, contributive value. It's not better than Palestinian testimony. But as Mohammed said, as long as we're living in a racist, hypocritical world, this can contribute to speeding the day when Hasbara has no more oxygen to express itself because people know it's a lie. And a lot of us do, but there's still a lot of people who don't. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's sort of a lot of bad faith attacks on the value of it. And people, you know, and some of them could be right. And I understand the take of like, there's no value in this because if there was value in soldiers admitting their war crimes, this would have been done as soon as breaking the silence as fucking found there or whatnot. So instead, you've got people admitting to these war crimes year after year on camera

2:09:03and nothing's being done. It all starts to look like a game. It all starts to look like this is all for show and whatnot. And what I like to tell people who are saying things like, you know, they're not telling us stuff we don't already know. I like to tell them, I'm sorry, but a lot of people don't know. And that's just the truth. Or they don't believe they don't believe or they don't know. Maybe they've heard, maybe they know nothing, but they should know. They should know that they don't know the racist and you can't talk to racists. So now we're back in woke one, which is totally crazy. There is, yes, there is a bit of that too, where there are people are doing this sort of like standpoint, fucking identity politics stuff in order to criticize this in a way that I think is like sort of unfair. There's a lot of people who don't, who actually don't know about this shit. And I think that is shown in the fact that Zionists still get away with tons of things, even with people who are, you know, now voting more against A-Pack or whatnot, you still have

2:10:11a large population people, especially in the West who don't know about these things. You can say, well, there's useless to try to convince them and don't spend any breath trying to. Well, you don't have to. I just don't think it makes sense strategically to discourage the information from getting out there. And I don't think, I don't think it's a nefarious plot. I think it's a symptom of a pretty atrocious system that we have in which people just do not fucking believe the victims of crime. And I can understand not wanting to live in a world where that's the case, but guess what? We do. If you're, you can't tell me that the Vietnam War, the end of it or the inability to launder the legacy of it hasn't been contributed to by anonymous sources, investigative reporting, revealing state secrets at the highest levels. It's just, it's just part of it. It's like, like I said, it's like the wire, all the pieces matter. Other crazy takes, they're not centering Palestinians.

2:11:11Imagine if German filmmakers during the Holocaust had made movies about it, just anonymizing Nazis and not centering Jews. That would have been fucking great. Yeah. That, to me, was one of the weirdest takes I saw. It was just like, what if the Nazis had been making documentaries about the, about how bad the Holocaust was? That was like, no, what if German, because if, look, if you want to say that you've all over Ham is the same as, I mean, he gets, I got no time for you. Right. But so what if German filmmakers had interviewed not their fellow countrymen and not route and not taken, not brought them to justice? What are you supposed to do? Just kidnap one of these guys, put him in a carry on suitcase and fly him to the hagg. No, yeah, but also beyond that, like the Nazi Holocaust was something that was largely not known about, even up until the fucking 60s, it was, the information was still coming out about just how massive of a crime had been taking place. And how it happened. And what the mechanics were, which couldn't be believed by people.

2:12:13Yes, exactly. And like the idea that somehow a, if a German had made a documentary in which Nazis were admitting to doing the Holocaust and diagramming how the crematorium work, that's not literally what's happening in this movie. They're diagramming the operating system, the mainframe, all of that. They're showing you the mechanics and you're saying this exists, I operated it. I was following orders. It's very, it's a very weird like analogy to make because I don't know anyone who's going like, yeah, I think what they're trying to say with that take, if I'm being fair, is, imagine how Gosha would be if a Nazi just kept, made a documentary where people, our other Nazis were just like, oh man, we've been doing all this Holocausting and we feel kind of bad about it. And then nothing gets done. It's like, yeah, you're right. It is Gosha. It is disgusting that the Nazis are Gosha. Yes. But it's like, actually, they're, they're, they're Dwatt.

2:13:15They're not Gosha means left. Yeah. But it is understandable to be watching the spectacle of going and being like, this spectacle, discuss me, the West, discuss me and all that. I get that completely. I just don't think that there is an understanding of what the value is of outlining and having literally the people doing the genocide or people who were involved, a cog in the machine telling you how the machine was built, how it's signed. Right. And that members of that society taking the risk of going. That's true. That's true, and ship or whatever, to make it happen. Well, yeah, I mean, it is, it's useful. And I think there are them as members of that society facing some sort of consequences. We'll see. We'll also see what the consequences of this movie coming out is.

2:14:16But here's what I do know when no other land came out and there was sort of a similar type of discourse going on. The discourse about it was argued pretty much in these pockets of the left and internationally, not on that land, not there. Right. And not, yeah, exactly, not on that land, but also by the people suffering it. Right. But also while this sort of leftist discourse was taking place, that movie itself, after it won the Academy Award, could not get distribution. And it didn't. To the point where I think now it eventually they like self-published. It was just the only way they could do it. Oh, but they plan to do that. They plan to do that. They plan to make a movie that would make a big spectacle, but then could get distribution. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There are some people, obviously, who are at Galaxy Brain on this. But there are, I think people do need to understand the systems that they're fighting are much more

2:15:18vast and powerful than each other. And so just ask Maclamore. You can get on it and say it to 90,000 people who still be shut down. We do this thing. We tend to do this thing, especially when we're in this particular political bubble, especially online, where we go, everyone knows this stuff already and everyone's against it. At least everyone who's cool is against it. And the only people who are for it are fucking these Zionist billionaires and whatnot in a small group of people. And as soon as fucking, you know, they try anything, everyone's going to fucking be mad. And we're going to all get together. And the truth of it is, is that these systems are much more powerful than that. The information that is out there is out there, but it's not ubiquitous. And people still don't know a lot of this stuff. Correct. Which means there's a lot of people who could be reached. And when you write off, basically they're doing basket of deplorables for the entire world for anyone who hasn't ponied up yet and said free Palestine.

2:16:21They're basically saying, well, if they haven't been reached by our testimony or by the testimony of the suffering, they can't be reached. Okay, then what's your theory of change? Let's just draw the line. Let's say, okay, it's skins and shirts. We already know who's who. We're vastly outnumbered. There's no one else we can get. And we're going to fight with what implements that are going to bring down this entity. We're just going to trust in God. No, that's the black pill that I can't allow to go and change. There is some of that black pill that exists, I think. Look, I don't know what it's like to be a Palestinian. I'm not a Palestinian person. And so I can understand that. I can understand the feeling, especially, and I've thought about this feeling a lot, this feeling of like to constantly have to ask the people who are your oppressors to speak up. It's like it's exhausting. And anyone praising it makes me mad too. I fucking totally understand that. I think the difference in this particular situation is you do have Israelis in this

2:17:25case doing that work and not putting that labor on someone else. And I think the praise for that is gauche. And I understand that feeling. But you a little bit have to, there's a bitterness to that that I think is. Although or at least not fucking vomit. I mean, I think displaying the bitterness for it is human and it's understandable, but it's also, I think it doesn't really have the effect of, yeah, I guess it's just not. To me, I'm like, this is me and maybe I'm an embarrassed guy. I'm so many's easily embarrassed. I don't want people to know when I'm feeling bitter. And other people I think are more vulnerable and human. And I'm willing to accept those vulnerable expressions of just constant bitterness. But I'll say this, I'm not going to give gauge. Let people actually, I think, learn. Yeah, you don't want to make people disengaged. And to me, that's the point of this podcast, I think. And especially pro-Palestinian non-Palestinian allies.

2:18:26Let Palestinians be disgusted by this. But the white people I've seen sharing. There's white people out there. And quite frankly, there's some anti-Jewish sentiment that I've seen. Just very clearly, like no Jew can be trusted. Like explicitly. Yeah. And Twitter especially. Yeah. But also on Instagram, I had an account, you know, comment. It's typical that you would consider yourself an authority on this. Daniel, I looked at their thing and every single one of their posts is about Jews and the nation's Jews. So that's out there as well. The night I met you, my brother was arguing with a Palestinian woman. He was saying, there's no anti-Semitism in pro-Palestinian work. She said, are you fucking kidding me? Of course there is. Yeah. So that's there. I'm going to, here's what I'm going to say. I'm not going to give Israeli Jews any special bravery points. I'm not going to applaud them for 25 minutes for doing the bare minimum. Now the bare minimum takes a real risk. So I'm going to admire them. I'm going to thank them. But I'm not going to go out of my way to be like, wow, you're, you know, but I'm not going

2:19:28to take, I'm not going to give them demarrants either for where they were born, who they are, if they're doing work that needs to be done because we would have wanted Germans to speak up. Yeah, exactly. And also like this bare minimum talk, you know, all good for them for doing the bare minimum. I'm like, no, the bare minimum is, you know, like an Israeli going, I'm anti-Zionist and I'm going to fucking move out of Israel and I'm going to, you know, be against it or what not. I mean, I'm just saying it's like, you know, the bare minimum is statements online, let's say, not even the moving out thing, just statements online. I mean, the making of documentary, I think in which you actually have to like get people to admit these things, especially ever made a movie, do you know how long it takes? I know, right. That's the other thing. It's like, like, it's not like they just threw this thing up on the, they just didn't it. They just had 24 hour documentary festival. We just make it overnight and you throw it up at the Venice Film Festival. Like the amount of planning and resources and intention it takes to gather anonymous,

2:20:33like gathered at night and. There's a lot of people saying throwing around the phrase bare minimum when it comes to, you know, Israelis to speak out who I'm like, talk about bare minimum. They're just, they're chirping online. Like that's what you're doing. But all that is to say is that I feel like it is also important to point out the fact that like we are talking about social media discourse. The reason that's important to point out is because once again, these, they're, these systems out there that are getting people like Mac or more can't even say fucking free Palestine at an Ed Sheeran concert can't even do that. Their systems out there are going to make sure this film doesn't get seen by a lot of people is the same system that made sure that no other land didn't get distribution. There are these monstrous systems out there who are making sure that they continue the genocide in Palestine. And then there's discourse online.

2:21:33And for all those who had some takes that like maybe annoyed me like the, you know, whatever not she did the, I can still extend the grace to say this person is still an ally to me. This person is still, yeah, this person is still outraged by genocide. And I think it's important to deny the pro-Israel fucking Zionist movement. It's weapon of trying to divide and conquer. You need to be able to deny them that weapon. The weapon that they give to you and they say, you know the right politics. Make sure you cut out anyone who doesn't know the right politics. Deny them that let people have their fucking takes even if they're fucking batshit. And to be honest, even if some of them are fucking anonymous accounts saying some anti-Semitic shit, they say that shit to me all the time.

2:22:34I fucking I go, I, it does not change one Iota whether or not I believe that Palestine should be free whether or not I believe that genocide is bad, right? So it's, I think it's important to say when someone is having criticism, even if it's criticism that you are like, God, this is so annoying. It's important to remember that that is a social media fucking phenomenon and it is not a system. It is not the same as the criticism that comes from a fucking place of a government, right? That allows that is going to, you know, maybe revoke these guys citizenship or whatnot. And people are allowed to have their fucking feelings and you're allowed to have yours, but just solidarity is the most important thing here. You're talking sense. You're talking sense. And, and, and there's always projection involved. And in any time I get this fucking riled up about, about people who I want to be on my side, there's some, there's some like, I resemble that remark.

2:23:36Like I recognize something in myself, the hastiness to judge the, the, the, the rigidity, the whatever it is. But yeah, so thanks for, good to land on a place. I was going to show a tweet which basically shows a bunch of, what's that? A tweet that made you mad. A tweet that maybe mad, I won't do it, but it, but it showed a bunch of indistinguishable statements, which you can't tell whether you remember that did a Zionist or a Nazi say it. Right. This is a did an anti-Zionist or a Huzbaris say it about this. Yeah, about you, all yeah. And, and, but I think the moment has passed for, for that because we, we should probably wrap up. That's true, it's true. But yeah, solidarity forever, everybody, remember free Palestine. It's something that you can say that can get it, ed sheer and mad at you. And that's why you need to say it because fuck that guy. And that's been our podcast, badasbara at gmail.com for all your questions, comments,

2:24:37and concerns patreon.com slash badasbara. That's right. You'll be able to hear that full fucking song in the patreon version. So do it. All right, everyone. Thanks again so much for listening. And until next time from the river to the scene. If Naza, Naza, you ate two. No argument from me. All right. Jumping jacks was us. Pushups was us. Godmaghaw us. All karate us. Taking Molly us. Michael Jackson us. Yamaha keyboards. Us. Georgia makes our us. Andor was us. Keith led your Joker us. Andless friends like us. Happy meals was us. McDonald's was us. Be happy to us. Be with yoga us. Eating food was. Reading air. Us. Drink you water. Us. We've been in all that shit.