1542. #TFCP - Modernizing 3PL Workflows: CRM Meets TMS Execution!

0:00This episode is brought to you by S.P.I. The first class of the year is the first class of the year. For over 40 years, S.P.I. has been diligently building the most successful freight agent network to provide first class relationships for our shippers, receivers, and carrier partners. We are more than another transportation network. We are a dedicated team of professionals united by one singular purpose and that is to expedite our agent success. All of our agents are set up for success on day one as they are provided with a full suite of support staff that is ready to assist them with everything from after hours emergencies to financial and administrative needs on a

1:00no fee basis. This way you can focus on continuing to grow your business. There is no financial risk to start and you have the ability to earn up to 75% in commissions. If you are looking to take control of your financial future and build your business with a backing of one of the most successful logistics firms in North America, visit www.spi3pl.com to learn more. Do me a favor and let them know that the freight coach sends you. Hey guys, before we jump into the episode, I wanted to let you know it is brought to you by Revanova, the official TMS provider for the freight coach. You guys have been a broker for a long time and the tools that are at your disposal with Revanova help you eliminate bouncing between systems which improves your accuracy when you are managing multiple tasks throughout your work day. Plus, it's built into the Salesforce cloud so your CRM is fully integrated with your TMS, eliminating yet another silo. In today's day and age, you are definitely concerned about the safety of your data. With Revanova, it's fully protected. They have cutting edge security that keeps your information safe

2:02so you can focus on what matters most and that's growing your business. Speaking of growing your business, with right and lane IQ, you get real-time pricing and route recommendations, helping you optimize costs and improve operational efficiencies which ultimately helps you make smarter decisions. If you are like me and have recurring shipments from non-EDI customers, they have intuitive cloning features that let you easily replicate previous shipments, saving both shipper and carrier rates with adjust a few taps. If you are ready to learn more, visit www.Revanova.com to request a demo. Just do me a favor and let them know that the freight coach sent you. What is up ladies and gentlemen, we are back with our live at this freight coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 830 in Pacific, 1030 Central to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. This is your first time tuning in. Welcome. This is the real side of freight ladies and gentlemen.

3:02I do say that before every single show and what I mean by that is, I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve. So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Tuesday, everybody. I got a very special guest for you guys here today. I already know I'm going to have to have them back on the show at some point. We literally met all of 15 minutes ago. It's electric. We're going to be coming at you guys with a lot of information today. And you know, it is. It's going to be talking about modern workflows inside of freight. Where can we plug in automation in the right ways that bring immense value out there to you? And then it's a value out there to our customers, our carriers and our teams at IOM. And because that's like one of those things is a broker. We have to balance all of that out. So I want to welcome Mr. Mike Berg of Revan Nova under the show today. So Mike, thank you so much for taking the time to join me. Absolutely. Glad to be here. I just started my podcast journey here of the last couple of weeks. I'm really excited to be part of this.

4:02Dude, I love it, man. It's a... To me, it kind of surprises me how many people are like, almost against being on podcasts for whatever reason. Like, I had no idea when I first started doing... I mean, because you're like episode 1,540 something. I've like got a lot of work to do for a long time. But like when I started, just like with everybody, I'm like, man, I don't know what I'm doing. But like, I just chose to start. And then I found such a deep love for like just having actual conversations with people who are passionate about what they do. But who aren't afraid to just give like actual insight into like the problem that they solve out there because it seems, you know, with social media and everything else, man, it's so hard to like get to the meat of what they're trying to say. And it's how it's just some like funnel. It seems like just drives you to a different direction. That's exactly right. And it's kind of funny. Like, I feel like people, we talked about before, they don't feel like their word is value. And it's really like people want to hear where you have to say it. It's like it could be a small thing, but they can learn from you.

5:02So I'm excited to talk with you today. Dude, so what brought you into transportation, man? Like, how'd you get your start in this industry? Yeah, it's interesting. So I have, so I've been in sales for 16 years. And I took the traditional route out of college. I didn't know what I wanted to do. So, you know, talking to my family, they were like, why don't you go into sales? You grew up playing sports. You're clearly, I had high energy. So I started it as a BDR at a college. And you know, I worked a bunch of different SaaS jobs. And I was working at this company that was selling construction software. And you were essentially getting paid really well to be bored. And there was a company across the hall that was super innovative. You know, they had motor psycho helmets outside of them. And I was, I, I mentioned before, I have a dog in the background. His name's George. He's an English cream golden retriever. I used to bring him to the office. And then their HR people would come over. They would, they would pet him. And one day they were like, Mike, are you looking for a job? We found you on LinkedIn. We think it'd be a perfect fit to come in his own leadership team. I was like, what do you do? They're like, we're in logistics. So okay, well, tell me a little bit more about what that means. And it was a company called Where to Go.

6:03And it was a 4PL. And they got to help people. They got to help people's businesses grow. And for me, I was like, let's do it. I want to see how this goes. And that really got my first taste into logistics. And it was a big awakening for me. It's a different beast. No, it really is. And I, you know, I look at with, you know, working on the 4PL side of things. Because I, you know, a lot of the transportation traditionalists will call them. They're like, they make the joke. It's like, what PL is it going to get up to? You know, is it going to go up to a 7PL and 9PL? Like, and what does it actually mean? And, you know, I look at it with your experience out there on the 4PL side of things. And, you know, one of my, because we like, we use revenue inside of our brokerage. One of my like absolute favorite features is is it's not designed for one specific customer. Right? Like, there's not one specific shipper where it's like, hey, this is the best one for it. Like, and as you're building up businesses and you probably saw this on the 4PL side, when you go from one facility of managed transportation to like 17, you want to implement technical infrastructure from the beginning.

7:06That grows with your business as opposed to hitting certain revenue multipliers. And you're like, we got to rebuild our entire tech stack because we went this route. And it didn't grow and didn't allow us to grow with it. Yes. And that's the view. You want to meet them where they are. You want to meet them at the art so they're not going to outgrow you, but you're going to grow together. Because that's going to help their business get ahead of it. I mean, it moves quickly. Like, you really don't know how quick it's going to happen. And you need to be moving at the same speed as them. How, you know, coming in, you know, you have the experience inside of transportation and stuff on that on the 4PL side of things. When you look at the tech capabilities of transportation, where do you rank it compared to other industries that you've been working in? Oh, wow. It's savvy. Like, it really is. And we talked about it before. It's like, Revenova is business for such different people. And it can help mold around. It's savvy. It's really just getting people to adopt to it. But I've been in a kit structure software and like, it's nice, but it's very late in the game.

8:07And this, it's very savvy. And it gets people to work smart, not hard. Do you think were like knowing, you know, the best way to put this is, is do you think automation is just at its infancy? Or do you see where like knowing that there's so many different businesses that are out there. So many different shippers because like, I'm, I'm of the mindset as a broker. I will implement what my customers request. Like, I'm not going to be the one who's going to force certain things into my customer's business. That makes my life easier. Because I look at it as a broker. Like, I'm a complete middleman, right? Like, I don't find stuff that makes my customers life easier and my carriers life easier. And sometimes that is you could say, you know, detriment is the only word that comes up that it's a detriment to my business. Because like, hey, might mean we're a little bit more mundane in the way that we operate. But it adds value to the outside. And I think like, that's where brokers truly need to approach things as they're like assessing what they want to automate. Absolutely. I do think it's at the infant stages because as of today, like most companies, they're still having to use many.

9:11They're still having to use maybe two systems or multiple systems. I do think over time as this continues to grow, it is going to mold into that all in one solution. And people are going to have to evolve a little bit. But we talked about it before. Two years from now, it's going to look very different than it looks today. I mean, this is just the beginning stages in my opinion. You know, what are some of these things that? Why do you think people are so against implementing automation and technology? And you know, it's like, I hear this a lot inside of the transportation spaces. It's like, oh, we've been doing this for 30 years this way. No one's going to change this and that. And I look at it is is that I look at technology and automation as the equalizer. And what I mean by that is is you don't need a hundred, 200 person staff now to pack a punch of somebody who can. And that's not me saying like, I'm looking to reduce head count or anything like that. But I've just bootstrapped my businesses for six years. And I've had to find a way to make a dollar stretch into five. And now I'm like, man, the more automation that comes out, I'm like, this really levels the playing field that levels at.

10:18At places that I never thought was going to be at our disposal here. Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. I think there's a couple of reasons behind it. I think number one, everyone's scared to change. Like, at least for me personally, it's like, okay, I don't know how this is. I need to feel it out a little bit. But two, I think that's the reason why I'm going to be able to do this. And fortunately, it's like, okay, I don't know how this is. I need to feel it out a little bit. But two, they're afraid of my take their jobs from them in the reality. And I can talk about how I use it as a VP of sales. But in the reality is, it'll give them time back to do other things to help grow the business. And so I'm a big believer, work smart, not hard. Like put this automation in place because a lot of times in this space, you're wearing multiple hats. If you can automate part of the job to be able to lean in more to other aspects of the job. Like, I'm doing that today as a VP of sales. Like, I use Claude or Chatechic, or something along those lines to help me work. Like, I tell it what to do. I put the information in. It allows me to get some time back to focus on other things. Yeah, I like to, my term of RPA is revenue-producing activity.

11:18And that's what I'm looking for inside of my business because, you know, when you're, you only have so much financial runway when you're building any, anything out there and you need to look at it from how, how do I stretch this out? How do I put more outreach out there? And, you know, again, it's like business development is, in my opinion, early on, is one of like the longest stretches because, you know, market conditions, everything else. Like, we started our business from scratch in, you know, easiest to say is just January 1st of 2023. No customers, no revenue. Most people when they started a business, they got, you know, opportunities to work on right away, existing customers. We had enough. Yeah, like I'm a glutton for punishment, Mike, is what I call. Help me get there. Yeah, but I look at it as is like we came in when capacity was extremist, right? There was a ton of trucks on the road, not a lot of opportunities. It was post-COVID, so like things had starting to smooth out.

12:18So new opportunities were few and far between out there. And, you know, it's like, and then when we did get in the door with somebody, it took a really long time to even get into their regular rotation of providers because it was like, hey, here's this one opportunity two months later. Hey, we got this other one for you. And then a lot of the sales outreach was falling flat. I had, you know, I admit it like we had bid into the email only sales approach early on. And it just didn't get us anywhere. So it's like we had to jump to alternative methods to get in front of people. And I'm still developing our sales process to this day. And I've just come to realize like this is a constant evolution of how we're going to continue to get in front of people. But it's like I look at it where a lot of businesses, you know, if you look at the Pareto principle, for example, it's very applicable where a lot of businesses are held together by like one or two core accounts. Oh, yeah. That you like 90 to 95% of their revenue profit, all of that. And I just look at like that.

13:20If there's that's the thing that scares me the most about businesses, like my ultimate goal is to get to like 10% where every customer doesn't account for more than 10% of our total revenue. Well, I mean, my previous company, we had one big merchant where it's like, oh my gosh, if they leave, what are we going to do? Like this is a very competitive space. You have to differentiate yourself. That's why I go back to the automation piece that we keep talking about. It's like this is ways to differentiate yourself from your competitors because they're doing the same thing. So you have to figure out a way to do it differently and stay ahead of the game. Where do you see the biggest opportunity with automation inside of transportation? Ooh, I mean, that's a good question. It's I don't even think people are using it enough whether it's tracking whether it's implementing like tying your CRM together, tying your account together. For me, it's finding a solution that can be that all in one for you. The first company, whether it's Reven over or someone else that comes up with that, we are the all in one solution because of the integrations we have.

14:21It goes about to how do we give people time back to focus on revenue driven activities? Yeah, I look at workflow. Like that's the first thing I am looking at from an automation standpoint is is our workflow. Like how do I get it to where it's like if a customer sends us a tender, right? Whether it's an attached PDF or it's through their TMS API, EDI, whatever it is, I want to get something in there where it's like it molds to every single one of my customers because a lot of the products that I've seen can be strong in certain areas, but it's lacking others. And again, that just goes with you got to work with it so much to get it to recognize all the key details out there. And I look at it where like that's the greatest opportunity from a workflow is is the company that develops an AI tool that molds to every single shipper that is out there because everyone tenders differently, right? Like you want to think large enterprise shipper has everything automated and then you're like wait, they operate off of the Excel spreadsheet.

15:23So it's like that's where it's like I see the greatest opportunity is because like as an operator, when I'm selling into a lot of these organizations, everybody's different, right? So it's like again, I have to find something that molds to my customers operation, not my operation only. So for me, it's like how do we get that initial thing where it reads it builds it for me and then on top of it, we operate off of core carriers. And what I mean by that is is 85 to 90% of our freight is booked with the same handful of carriers. How do I get it then once the loads built to send the load notification to them, give them the opportunity to book it and then automate that entire workflow from like location updates, photos, all of that down to when it delivers. I think and it's like that when that process gets mastered, that's going to open up a window of opportunities that has yet to be developed in my opinion. Well, that's why I think it's still in that infant stage. I you think about it. It's coming from Shanghai all the way to the port of Virginia to the end user's house.

16:27How do you automate that whole flow from start to finish where the tracking, the accounting, the pain, the drivers all flows through that? Because as of today, like they are still having to use one or two additional systems or they're still using it in itself, bridging it can be the biggest company out there. And I do think over the next two years, that is going to be the game changer that separates everybody. Yeah, I look at it where there's there's a lot of, you know, from freight tech in general right now, right? Like I interview a lot of people for this show Mike that are in the freight tech space and I've demoed a lot of their products and I've seen it and there's a lot of great components that they've been doing. And I think that there's too much where it's like, there's still too many systems that I would have to operate in where it's like for me, I want my TMS and I want to sit in my TMS all day long. Like I don't want to jump outside of my TMS from an operations perspective. I want people inside of my TMS all day long monitoring our stuff staying on top of it, identifying any key issues early on out there.

17:29I want them having to jump from program to program to program just to dispatch out a driver, you know. And we see that far too often and one of the things I like about Revan Oven and we were talking about it before, like most of the people come from a brokerage space where it's very quick, it's transactional, it's get to the bottom. This is very much a consultative sale and if I was working with you, it's like, help me understand why these are important to you. What are these problems you're facing? Why is it impactful and lead you to our solution? Because it's never as of today, it's never going to be like this perfect mold. But if we can get you to minimize your clicks as much as possible, so you're spending the bulk of your time in there, that's what we're going for right now. Yeah, if you see, I used to be a traditionalist in the sense, Mike, where I'm like, I only want to talk to people who've sat in this meeting and done the job and everything. And there's a lot of you don't get me wrong, right? And if you pull up social media any day and everybody loves ripping on the people who are developing products that didn't have transportation experience.

18:31You could probably say, Chris, you're one of them. Here's a couple of your folks where you're talking shit. But I look at it now where I'm like, I want somebody who doesn't have 15, 20 years in the seat picking apart my operation to find out those things because people get complacent. They get lazy and they get into that mindset of, this is the way we've always done things. And now I'm looking at that is sometimes where it's like, dude, if you're trying to sell me a piece of software and you have the same transportation mindset that I do, you might not identify weaknesses in my game. And I want people to identify weaknesses in my game because I don't have it all figured out. I'm trying to write my own story right now. And there's times where I'm like, dude, I just need somebody to come in here and be like, hey, why are you doing it this way? And I look at it like this, either it solidifies why I'm doing it this way or I can improve. And that's the way that I approach a lot of this. Well, that's it's all that I said before the most important question to always ask is why. And that's why I love the consultative value selling like, yes, we're in logistics, yes, we work with a lot of brokers.

19:37But the end of the day, revenue is a software company. We are providing a software that's supposed to make your life easier, not more difficult. And I said, from a big believer of like gap selling in the challenger, because it really were the experts trying to understand how we can make your life better. But asking those important questions and to your point of, if I was sitting in the same seat as you, I probably don't have a different lens to look through. And I'm probably going to ask you the questions you already know the answers to. Yeah, no, it is right. Again, I'm not knocking anybody's career history and stuff like that. But it's like the more people I talk to, you know, especially on the show, the more people I interview, I realize like, you know, maybe I was looking at this wrong, you know, like in regards to automation in regards to a lot of the technology that's out there. I did come to the conclusion that I'm like, I think I was approaching it the wrong way where I thought that it needed to be built a certain type of way where now I'm like, am I being the most efficient with my operations because, you know, we're about to embark upon an economy, I think, where if you're not a real killer or a real player, dude, you're going to get swallowed up really fast.

20:48Absolutely correct. I don't know if enough people are paying attention to that, right? Like I think again, a lot of people might be looking at it is is, A.I. is not that big of a deal. I personally think that this is going to be the biggest leap of opportunity that human history has ever seen to where you're going to see a billion dollar operation with a head count that is going to make most people like pull their hair out. Like how are you doing that with 10 people, you know, like that is where it is. It's scary but exciting at the same time. Like I was a late adopter to using A.I. technology and it was the same thing. I'm a little any older, but I was like, whoa, what is this going to do for me? But then I started using it. The things you can do quickly with it. They're making movies now out of it with real people that aren't even in it. And so that goes back to like, that's why this isn't the beginning stages and the people who don't adopt it. They're either not going to be around or they're going to be left in the dark.

21:49So let's talk about that. What's a logical first step for adoption when it comes to automation inside of your business? What would you recommend people look at first? I mean, for me, like I would look at claw and just start typing in questions. Like I'm a big believer. Like stuff gets stuck in my head. I have to get it out. The best first step is to just simply type it into whatever it's clawed or chat GPT. Be curious. There's no A.I. is not judging you at least that we can tell. But you can literally type in any question. And that would be my recommendation from a starting point. It's just have a conversation. Type in a couple questions, see what the answers are. It's going to come out with some solution for you. And it'll probably help you be like, oh, I wasn't thinking of it like that. So that's a really good starting point. Do you think a lot of people over complicated because like I agree with you on my like where it's like I think that. And again, we you can blame individuals like us, Mike who work in sales, right? Like we want to sell the dream that is out there.

22:51But I also look at it is is man, you got to I look at it as crawl walk run. Like that's where you need to be. You got to go in there. Just start somewhere with it. We were talking before the show. I developed through Gemini a prospecting tool where it's like I could just put a company's web address in there. I gave it the four logistics prompt and it spit out their entire geographic footprint. They're freight their product. The probability of what trailer type it shipped on all of that stuff. I did it took like six months right and it took a lot of hey remember we need to do this, this and this. Where it's like you had to remind it where it's like ABC one two three more times than you want. And I think because again, you have to curate it as you know when when people hear large language model. I think they underestimate how much information it would be willing to pull in if you don't keep it in line with what you're trying to actually accomplish. I think you said it right crawl walk run. Most people start with the running and they over complicated.

23:52I mean, it's the same thing. I guess this about people coming to Rebanova crawl before you run. Let's really understand what's important for you and then we'll run from there. It's the same thing with using AI. So many people over complicated because I have to do everything all at one time versus what you did. You took that six month approach. Start small. Get your feet wet. It's a learning module. It's going to learn as it goes. It's going to pick up on how you operate. But start with the basics. Just a basic question and then let it flow from there. Yeah, it's you know, I because I I look at it where you know workflows again like I'm a like I harp on this all the time because it's like operations. You know sound operations, I think is the true like key to a business because it's like you could automate your processes. But if they suck now you just have to shoot the automated processes at that point, right. So it's like I can fix them at some point too. Yeah, and that's the thing is is a lot of the the best run companies out there have rock solid operations, right. So it's like how do you take that.

24:54And they're like I guess how would you approach that with somebody who's like, Hey, we've been we've been in business for 40 years. This is our growth. This is our you know our customer base. How would like what are those things that you it's like a digestible thing where it's like, Hey guys, let's start automating this. And let's try and get this one thing as it by like one customer because everybody does operate differently out there. Yeah, and I think it's understanding like what's working and what's not working. It's almost like take a step back. I see so many people throw all this shit against the wall. Hope it it sticks and trying all these things pick one lane to go down to start. Like I'm very methodical. Like I like to move quick, but I'm a big believer slow down to speed up. And when you're when you've been business for 40 years and you're trying to figure out where you need to enhance this. It's like take a step back. Understand what's really working well. But the things that aren't working well. Okay, pick one. What's going to be the closest one to that revenue you're trying to get to and start in that lane. Then you can start to build off of it. So you start slow and then you start to move faster. But you got to pick a starting point.

25:54Do you think, you know, because it's like I know I know you guys are built on you know Salesforce platform and everything. And do you think now having that CRM running in the background. Do you think that when it comes to customer profiles and automation and really like building it out because you know I look at it where the greatest strides we've had is this kind of stain inside of our niche here, Mike. And you know, like the majority of our businesses full truck load like 90 some percent of its flatbed. And I'm out here now where I'm like I want to develop that outreach towards like we're only really touching a certain customer. So it's like do you think like how do you balance automation in sales, but also showing that it's a real human being behind the scenes here. Yeah, I mean, I'm a big I'm a big believer in the human factor. Like I don't think sales is ever going to get automated because like having these one on one conversations. But using the automation in the background, whether it's like building out presentations or something where you don't need the human factor into it.

26:56Like I think that's where that fine line is is where do we need that human interaction to believe that I have the best interest in helping your business grow versus what are some things that I can do in the background to automate these to make it easier. And that's really where I look at it. Do you think that like the days of the CRM are like I look at a company like Salesforce and I look at other tools that are out there. Where do you see that improving like with automation? Do you think like CRMs in lead gen are going to eventually mold into like one piece of software. Maybe eventually I think there's so many connectors that feed into it like to me the CRM is kind of like the nucleus everything sits in there. You can't really automate the whole thing, but do I think there's connectors where you might have a call recording system which they're already due today. It records everything it automatically feeds it into the CRM for you. So I think there's aspects that are going to get automated, but there's things that I think would be a mistake if it did fully get automated. But yeah, I think that to me that is the answer to the biggest question out there is is how do you, how do you balance like really implement automation at a high level inside of your business, but like make sure anybody who contacts you know it's an actual human being who's doing the talking behind the scenes.

28:14Because it's like I look at you know everybody wants to throw you know the word relationship out and freight right there like oh it's a relationship business okay what is the relationship actually mean you know like when you strip it all away and that this is why it's like for me. I look at it where 95% of my day 10 and should be automated. There is a 5% factor that never will in my business and I've been told I'm wrong and it's going to not work probably 150 times since I've said it the customer experience and the carrier experience anytime a carrier calls into my company. It's going to be a real person answering the phone just like any time my customer calls us it's going to be a real person answering the phone for them at all times because I don't think you can unengrain that in our DNA. I think this like 12 to 24 months that automation has been like a big talking point out there. And I try to put myself another people's shoes it's like okay what would you want to see it in your right it's like when I call something when I call a number and I get an automated response and it sounds like a real person like I know that's not a real person it just more irritates me.

29:19But there are there is room to be automated like if someone wants to know you know where's my load. Can AI look into the system look at the tracking and send an automated message back sure that's something small but that big human interaction it can never go away because I put myself in your shoes it's like what is it the customer experience that you would be looking for and I know how I feel about it. Yeah, I find myself that because where I'm doing some work at my house so just put it that way and it's like when you have to call certain companies and like you're having and you have to repeat yourself seven times because it doesn't recognize what you're saying. I just look at it from a customer experience standpoint I'm like you're making me not want to work with you like every time I say something and it's like can you please repeat that. Can you it's like six, seven, eight times in your life. I'm here and angry. That's the thing right where it's like I look at it where relationships to me Mike are created and solidified in turbulent times it's like when things go wrong you know it's like I'm not naive to sit here and say oh we're perfect everything's going to be great.

30:27Here's what's going to never change when something when we mess up we're going to be the ones handling it you're going to know it and we're going to walk you through and we're going to come to you with a solution now is AI going to get there at some point probably right but like I think that to me is the very large opportunity that most people overlook because they're afraid of a little conflict that's right and you can't and you're spot on you cannot hide behind the AI because something happened and it wasn't in our favor and you have. Someone who just disgruntled like one of the questions I always ask people like we're doing a manual right now like there's a delay in it we don't have reporting how does that impact the customer experience like that is such an important question to ask because at the end of the day it is all about the customers good or bad like I've had to have a lot of tough conversations but I'm a very big believer be open on us and direct and the AI is not going to do that now I love it Mike I knew this is going to fly by and like I said. Dude, how does he need to reach out to you to find out more about what you got going on Mike? Yeah, absolutely. Probably I can get my cell phone number on here but it's on my email signature so if you want to email me at emberg at revenue over.com connect with me on LinkedIn as well Mike bird would love to chat with anyone who's open and interested in learning about revenue but we've even learned about my journey I'm happy to talk at any time.

31:44Perfect Mike thank you so much for your time that's going to be it for today ladies and gentlemen if you guys can't find Mike or rather Nova out there hit me up you guys know I'll put you in direct contact with him and like I always say we actually use them inside of our brokerage so I'd be more than happy to talk to anybody out there about what they have going on as I always you guys if you guys got value what you heard and you're not subscribed subscribe to the show you guys and for feeling ambitious ranking on iTunes and Spotify because if you see value your networks going to see it as well I appreciate you guys I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon. Can't back with a bank when no doubt yelling out money