147. Why Isn't Everyone Getting Unstuck from a Flat World? with Dr. Meenal Agarwal

0:00Sweet friends, welcome to why isn't everyone doing this? I am your host, Emily Fletcher. I'm the founder of Zeba, where we teach meditation and manifesting to help you create a life you love. To help you to access the unmanifest so that you can manifest what your soul came here to do. And I have the outrageous fortune of interviewing brilliant guests. Like today, our guest is Dr. Minal Agarwal. She's a board certified optometrist. She's a spatial awareness expert, which you're going to learn what that means in this conversation. And she's a leading authority on the eye brain connection. She's really redefining vision as a gateway to cognition, longevity, and overall well-being. She actually coined the term spatial awareness processing disorder, which a surprising amount of children are suffering from right now. And she describes how screen-heavy modern lifestyle, which we're all dealing with in SOAR, our children, disrupt the brain's ability to judge distance, track motion, and navigate real world space. And she's on a mission to help people understand that 2020 eyesight tells us way less than what we think,

1:02way less than the potential we have to learn from our actual eyes. And she's also the host of a podcast called Uncover Your Eyes, The Truth, About Health and Wellness. We talk about her book, Stuck in a Flat World. And we talk about how we can unstick ourselves. If we created this mess, we can un-create it. We can create a new sensation. We can create a new solution. So please welcome to the show The Brilliant, Dr. Manal Agarwal. Well, I can say that I've been really looking forward to having this conversation with you. And thank you for being on the show and a welcome you, Dr. Manal Agarwal. You've- you've- I'm assuming that as a child, you did not grow up with like a childhood mission to write a book about spatial awareness and about our eyes and about what would happen to human connection and human consciousness if we got stuck in a flat world because this wasn't the world when we were growing up. And you said earlier that you never thought you would- you would write a book. And so we're going to get to your story and how you've overcome, you know, anxiety and being

2:06more withdrawn and what inspired this. But I'm curious for people who know. Like we all know in our bodies. And when we look at our phones and we're scrolling through and we're looking at zoom screens all day, like we can feel that it's not good for us. And yet we do it anyway because it's addicting and also we do it because this is the whole- this is the society. This is the water that we're swimming in now. And I don't usually like to start with scare tactics because I don't know that it's helpful. But can you just start us off with like why should people listen to this? Like why should people really pay attention? What is at stake here with our brains, with our eyes, with our spatial awareness and with our consciousness if we continue to be trapped in this flat world? Yeah, I mean, I don't think devices are bad. I think there are so many pros to devices and I think, you know, we've all been told so so many times to balance it and or reduce our screen time. But I think what I like to focus on because it was really hard for me as well to reduce screen time.

3:10But focus on what is our, what are our screens stealing? What are they taking away from us that we need, that our brains need, that our bodies need? They are taking away that recalibration that our body needs. And I think that for me that has always been the focus. It's not to tell myself or my children cut down screen time, but it's look at what we're missing. And, you know, again, like you said, we'll get into it. But the bigger piece that we're losing is connection, empathy, extraversion. We are becoming more fearful. That's a big piece of this and there is a whole connection with in our brain process that the more we're looking at screens, we're actually scared. And we're losing milestones in our life. So I think if we can just understand what it's replacing, what these screens are replacing

4:12and build more of that into our life, we will not truly have less time for screens. And I think that's what the focus should be for our kids as well. That's so brilliant. And I think conceptually, this is what we teach at Ziva that it's always better to move towards the positive versus away from the negative, right? With food, with time, with even in meditation, right? People are like, oh, I feel like I'm failing because I'm having thoughts. And they're like, oh, no, my brain, I can't meditate. My brain is too busy. I'm like, no, no, we're not moving away from the thoughts. It is the nature of the mind to think we're just moving towards the technique. And so I love that this is baked into your philosophy. Let's not move away from screens because it gets very hard to tell an addict to just stop doing the thing and we're all addicted. But this feels really important. What is it costing us? What's the opportunity cost? Even right now, it's fall in New York. I live a one hour north of New York City and the leaves are catching on fire, gold and red and orange. And I feel like fall is this precious tiny little window of resplendence.

5:16And it's like, if you don't look up from your phone to receive the masterpiece that nature is painting on the trees for us, it's gone. And then we're in the winter and the trees are barren. And so they said that Michelangelo's greatest work of art was meant to have been in ice. And it's just the temporal nature of art and life. And I love that you're focusing on what are the milestones that we're missing. So can you share from your experience or from your data, for your research, what is the opportunity cost? What milestones are people missing? What have you seen in quality of life shifting as we've gotten sucked into what you call it near work? In this 2D world. Yes. Yeah. We are missing, connecting with friends. We're missing the extraversion going out. We're missing milestones like driving, like biking, like going to a convenience store by yourself, as a 16-year-old.

6:20We are missing something on Uber Eats or Amazon Delivery versus like going, like it was not just the actual screen. It's the immediacy and the delivery of the technological world. Yes. And Emily, there is a science behind this. And this was like three years of my life of research. Because I went through missing a lot of these milestones, you know, later in life where I became more introverted, more overwhelmed, more dependent on my GPS, because I couldn't even go to the local, you know, grocery store anymore without like questioning myself. Did I am I taking the right turn? And I started fearing driving at 30, you know, late 30s. In my late 30s, I was, you know, a driver that would cross the Canadian-U.S. border by myself. And here I am not going nearby anymore. And fearing parking lots and busy areas. And I think it was stealing a lot of those milestones or that sense of independence that I had. And this science behind it is when you are staring at something up close and, you know,

7:24I'm not, again, I'm not going to blame a screen. I, there are different aspects that we talk about in the book about holding a piece of paper versus a screen. But the distance is what matters most when you are looking at something within arm's length distance. So up close, you are stimulating a certain area of your brain that follows a pathway called the ventral stream or ventral pathway. When you are looking at something around outside, so peripherally, you are stimulating something called the dorsal pathway. And this is a different stream that goes through the parietal lobe. The initial pathway of looking at a screen goes through the temporal lobe. So all of this goes through our eye, goes to our visual cortex, and then the central vision goes a different pathway. The peripheral vision goes a different pathway. What's key is that in the parietal lobe, this pathway that processes our peripheral vision, anything that's not central or, you know, just up close cookie cutter, is that area also processes a lot of other things,

8:28like that's where a vestibular pathway meets. That's where proprioception is. That's what sends messages to our amygdala to go on high alert, which is our fear and threat center. So this parietal lobe is connected to all these other pathways. And when it's undercalibrated or underused, I mean, I call it undercalibrated, but underused, and it's not as stimulated, it's harder to wake it up. And that is why we are so scared when we enter a crowd because that is so much overwhelm of peripheral stimulation, and we're not used to it. And the best way I like to think about it is when you're on a screen, so even Emily, after you and I are done, and then you decide to shut off the screen, you'll notice as soon as you get up, you'll be off balance for a second. That's because your parietal lobe is talking to your vestibular system. You need a second. So those of us that work from home and are on a screen eight hours a day, when you get up, it's like, oh my

9:31gosh, give me a second. You need to catch your balance. And this is why so many children are now overwhelmed, stumbling, clumsy, we're labeling them. We're labeling them everything in the books because what we're not realizing is that we're not stimulating this parietal or dorsal pathway to the parietal lobe. And so we're having all these all these other issues. And you know, you mentioned just people using their phone all the time and using it, you know, I like to say as a shield. And I want to parallel that to a story that I went into a yoga studio. And you know, when you go into a yoga studio, and this is my regular yoga studio, there's always a sign outside or usually that says, please, you know, refrain from using phones in the studio. And this is about mindfulness. Every single person, you know, because we line up to go into the actual room,

10:31every single person, every single time is on their phone. I look like the odd one out who leaves my phone in the car and doesn't use it as a shield. In fact, they almost look at me like what's wrong with her, why is she looking at us? I'm not looking at anyone. I'm just trying to make connections, but nobody meets eye contact with me. But that is the problem. We are essentially using it as a shield because we are in fear that if we put it down, we're going to be perfectly stimulated. And that's too much for us now. That's fascinating. And of course, it would create a level of vulnerability. Like if something is never exercised, right? Like that's and it's weak, then there is a level of vulnerability. And if we're not stimulating that parietal or that vestibular, appropriate section part of the brain, I had never thought about that. What would happen to our body, what how it would create a level of fight or flight, or an involuntary stress reaction because we don't feel safe. And then we need the shield even more,

11:32which is the definition of addiction, right? The very thing that is creating the imbalance and then you need it more. Can you just share quickly what is what is proprioception? Like my son was dealing with some some things when he was younger. So I know about the vestibular system and the proprioception. But for someone who doesn't know, what what are just quickly, what are those in charge of? So your vestibular system is in charge of like your motion, your balance, your coordination. Your proprioception is your system that senses your internal sense of where your body is, where your heart rate is, where your temperature is. So your body's position in space is how I like to think of it. So knowing where you are, that's proprioception or your proprioceptive system. That's what it's in charge of. So these are two really important systems that help us be more comfortable in space, I would say. Mm-hmm. And you know, I think, you know, my, I have us an eight year old son and you know, goes to school fluorescent lights. They have, they all have their own

12:35individual iPads. They have a five foot screen now as their chalkboard or, you know, main thing. And they have 30 minutes of outside time a day. And we know the kids need at least four hours outside, fresh air, sunshine, moving their bodies. And I don't know any public school system that is giving kids even close to that. And it's, it's really a problem. And I've been very vocal about it in our local school system. But let's just go brass tax. Let's go practical. Like for someone like me, like I have three podcasts today, back to back. So I'm going to be on this screen for at least six hours today, straight, you know, very focused in lots of presence, but very flat. Yeah. What would you recommend that I do in between as breaks or at the end of the day to get my balance to exercise this different part of the brain? And then follow up what, what can we be doing with our children? You know, if we can't afford a forest school or homeschooling or sending them out into the woods. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Like how do we help our children to combat this onslaught of tech that's

13:38all around them all the time? So, you know, firstly, you are correct. We are spending 35% less time outdoors than we used to. That is huge. And we are only used to like how long ago, like what's that time frame you're looking at? So there's been multiple studies done on that. I would say majority of them are have been done comparing pre digital age. So before the 2000s and some of them have actually done been done pre covid. But you know, there are many studies that show more than 35% 35% is just an average. So, you know, and I think- And children. Yes. Yes. I believe most of the studies were done on adults. But, you know, I think that I want to say there were some teenage studies as well. But I think we're on a trajectory to just increase that. I think, you know, I can't imagine by the year 2040, 2050, we're going to be at 50, 60%. Well, I mean, prayers app that AI does what we all hope it's going to do. And what we pray it's going to and actually, you know, let's all manifest

14:41a future where it does in fact, liberate us and doesn't just make us more addicted and even more. I mean, you know, I am an optimist at heart. So I'm going to keep holding that vision. Yes. And it does in fact liberate us from our screens. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, and that's what I said. That is the benefit of our screen time. That is the benefit of these tools that we can use positively to help us and, you know, cut down maybe our screen time. And, you know, Emily, I use tools like that to help me cut down my screen time. I mean, send these emails and do this, you know, a lot of people are now using these agents and these AI agents. And I think there are positives to this. And that's why I always say don't talk about cutting down your screen time. Let's talk about the recalibration and, you know, the biggest thing I'm going to say is before you start on a screen and this applies to adults, children, prime or prep your pride, a lobe or your dorsal lobe system by doing an activity that is giving you awareness. Do it for at least a few minutes

15:47before. I mean, if you can do it for 30 minutes before, that's great. The more you do it, the better. But at least do it for a few minutes before. So for example, your child's coming home from scoots from school, they want to just go on a screen. I always tell my children go play ball, go in the backyard, do something. And then you can go on a screen reason being when they go, we go on a screen, we shut out the peripheral awareness. But if you've now just said, wake it up, stimulate it and now go on a screen. Then when you're screaming at your child, come for dinner, come for dinner, they're going to notice you. If you haven't primed that system that reaches your peripheral awareness, they're not hearing you. How many times do we all call our children? You know, stop watching TV or stop doing this. Come, come. And they don't, it's like they don't even hear you. It's because their peripheral awareness is not, it's not the forefront of their brain at that moment. But if you've now prepped it, that be on a screen, but be aware of what's happening, that just helps all of us. So I think prepping that system is huge. And for adults,

16:52that could mean going for a morning walk. You know, morning walks are great. You're getting that natural sunlight as well to set your circadian rhythm. If you are able to even just sit on the porch and drink your coffee, something like that would be great for an adult who's like, for me, I'm not an athletic person. So, you know, I'm not going to go run with a ball or go biking as much. But, you know, if I can just sit on the porch or go outside for a little bit, I think that, that is such a great thing for us to do to prep that peripheral awareness. And then, worst case, like a grounding exercise, you know, I think grounding is a huge part of this. If this just means you step into your backyard barefoot and just feel the ground, notice yourself, notice your senses, where, you know, what am I smelling? You know, what am I feeling? What am I seeing? And then, notice your environment moving in relation to you. That's a grounding exercise that just makes all of those systems wake up such that when you go back and you're on a screen for the

17:54next six hours, you are going to be stimulated in that area. I love that. Rather than let's undo the damage after, let's prepare our brains and bodies before we go on. I think that's really brilliant for adults and for kids. And I think the trick there, at least, you know, that I could imagine is that I'm not wanting to use the screens as like a reward, but rather than, hey, let's do this thing, let's prepare your brain, let's prepare your body so that you can enjoy it more and enjoy what's happening afterwards more. And for myself as well, that feels great. Also, we have, I do an exercise called Come to Your Senses. It's actually part of the Ziva technique. And I usually have people do it as close, but I can put a link in where I walk people through, you know, what are you hearing, what are you smelling, what are you tasting, what are you touching? And then actually holding all five of the body senses simultaneously to practice that simultaneity of consciousness. Yeah, but I'm going to put it in. I'm going to recommend that people do it with their eyes open. Yes, yes, before if they're not preparing for the meditation, but do it with the eyes open, especially outside,

18:59would be a really great preparation for screen time. That's amazing. And that's something I discovered much later, you know, like when we think about even meditation, I always wonder this Emily, like we think about meditation, we close our eyes and, you know, we, we, you know, have this sort of sense of mindfulness or presence. But now I'm like, there has to be an aspect of meditation or presence or grounding where we have our eyes open because we want that light, we want that energy. Our eyes are the window to our body, our soul. I truly believe that. It's where it holds all the clues to systemic diseases to our brain. Embryonically, our eyes are brain tissue. It actually stemmed from the brain. So that's really cool. Can you say a little bit about that? Like the tissue of our eyes, the same tissue as our brain. Yes, it's an extension of the brain. Like if you look at the embryo, that is literally a part of the brain. And that's why we're seeing a lot of studies now come out about Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, the proteins found in those, those diseases in the

20:05brain are now being detected in the eyes, you know, through AI images of the retina. And I think we're only headed in that trajectory where we are going to now start diagnosing all these diseases through an eye exam because your eyes are the only place in your entire body where a doctor can look in and just see all your blood vessels. Wow. All right, jumping in with a quick break to share something that I genuinely believe in. Now, it's really easy to get caught in the trap of doing more more workouts, more supplements, more optimization. But sometimes what's happening is that our bodies foundation needs different support, not more pushing, not more doing, more support. For me, that has meant looking at things that I never used to think about like my mitochondria. So the mitochondria are the structures inside your cells that produce your energy. And their function can naturally decline as we age. And that's why the same effort, the same workout, the same diet,

21:07stops producing the same results. That's not you. There's nothing wrong with you. That's biology. So timeline makes this supplement and it's called mitochondria. They're these delicious sugar-free gummies and they have clinically studied uralithin A inside them. A uralithin A supports your body's natural ability to clear out and renew mitochondria. Think of this as a foundational daily habit, the same way you think about sleep, food, and meditation. It's not about doing more. It's about supporting your capacity to feel like yourself. So if you're ready to check out these delicious gummies that are going to help you have more energy, more muscle tone, and support your mitochondria health, you can take 20% off of mitochondria at timeline.com slash ziva. So go to timeline.com slash ziva and you're going to get 20% off of mitochondria because you're a friend of the show. I mean, you know, on the more woo side of things, you know, urodology has been one of the more like witchy practices for a long time. And it's so funny. It's like actually,

22:09and Dr. Andrew Huberman is also a neuroscientist and an optimologist. He's into ophthalmology. A lot of people don't know, but his connection is very much through the eye and the brain connection. And we met, I don't know, 10 or so years ago. And I was giving a keynote at Mind Valley in Greece. And his Wi-Fi wasn't working in his room, which is the only reason he was at my talk. Because he just needed to go to the hall for the Wi-Fi. And then he was like, wait, this bitch is actually, she knows what she's talking about. And he was like, oh, she's actually like a deep scholar of meditation. But he said in the book, he, because he wrote the forward to my book. And he was like, he quoted me where I was like, oh, finally, modern science is starting to catch up to what these ancient scholars have been saying for thousands of years. And so I love watching this intersection of these ancient practices, urodology, meditation, overlapping with science. And for example, one of the things that Andrew and I connected on a long time ago was this something called drishti. Which I don't know if you, yes, drishti, right? Do you want to share what that is or what will be the scientific benefit? Oh, you know, you're probably born of an

23:10expert on that. But that's something like that we, you know, our parents, like my mom is, is very into like yoga and meditation. And she's actually a teacher for that. But that's something that came from Sanskrit and kind of the Hindu philosophy. But I will not say it better than you will. So, we'll all share the practices I understand it. And then maybe you can link the science of why this would be so good for our brains and to help us in this flat world. So my understanding of drishti is it's a practice where you take your eyesight and your gaze as far away as you possibly can. So best outside looking at the horizon, you know, if it was mountains, miles and miles away, that you're really exercising as far sighted awareness as possible. And then very quickly contrasting that even bringing your hand a few inches away from your eyes and then taking your focus as near as possible. And you know, if you're listening to this and you're not driving, I would recommend doing it right now, like even looking out of a window and seeing, looking as far as you can, 30 seconds even is enough. And then putting your hands two inches in front of your face and checking

24:11and see feeling the muscles in your eyes recalibrating. Like you're actually taking the musculature in your eyes to the gym and doing that a few times so that you're exercising this near and far, not only in your eyes, but then how the brain is perceiving reality, which I think this, this is what I'm interested to get into. I want to hear your story, but I also want to talk about how our actual eyeballs are not only shifting our brains perception of reality, but our consciousness. Yeah. And that's why I don't just have, like we now have this rule that we are now telling patients and very similar to what you're talking about the 2020-2020 rule. We know majority of us are on a screen and you know, working from home or whatnot. So the 2020-2020 rule is every 20 minutes for 20 seconds even, just look 20 feet away or far away. So if you can set your computer near a window, that's what I've done. That's the best way to do it. So you know, I'm typing and then like,

25:12I just look away because otherwise I'm looking at a wall behind me, it just doesn't make sense, but wanting to look away is huge. And I think, you know, tying in kind of like the ancient philosophies like what you're talking about, a lot of that is coming back in a different way. We're calling it the 2020-2020 rule, but essentially that's the concept of it. And what that is, and no one really knew that I'm sure back in the day, but that is what's prepping your, you know, your system, your dorsal stream, such that you're waking up both your dorsal stream and your ventral stream. And I'm sure back in the day, they had some thought process behind knowing that this is waking up your entire brain because you are literally by sitting on a screen waking up only one part of your brain. And the other part of your brain decides to go to sleep. Yeah, and anything will atrophy over time if we're not using it. And to your point around where eyes open practices, it's not what I teach at Ziva because Ziva is very much an eyes closed, like self-induced transcendence style of

26:16meditation. But if you look at, you know, iconography in the, from the Vedas or even, you know, lots of Buddhist iconography, you see, especially Buddha, eyes half open, eyes half closed. So a lot of these practices are eyes open. And of course, there's candle gazing, which can be its own practice. But I do think there's something to what is this similar to naity of yes, my eyes are open. Yes, I'm aware of this 3D reality, but also a piece of my consciousness is plugged into the 5D, into the unmanifest and practicing that simple to naity with the eyes open. Yes, it's very advanced and likely most people won't be starting there. But I think that once people have the ability to access and put their consciousness on the unmanifest, then practicing that with the eyes open is a really beautiful next step. And I had never thought about doing that as a preparation for screen time. So thank you for that. Yeah, no, absolutely. Okay. And so, so what I heard is the preparation. Is there anything afterwards? So we've got the 2020, we've got the move your body, wake up the

27:18proprioception beforehand, anything that we could do afterwards practically before we jump into your story. Yeah, I mean, I would, I would do a similar practice after like, you know, whether it's something different. So, you know, for kids, it could be, even if you wanted to stay indoors, it could be something like playing puzzles or, you know, Jenga is a great one because you're putting puzzle pieces together. You're actually stimulating your, your pride alone. Different aspects of games are great, I think, even a puzzle on the floor. Like, it's all about piecing space together. So if you don't want to go outdoors again, there are things that you can do at home. And then for parents, like, I am tired after six hours on a computer. I like, I do not want to play with my child. Like, I'm just going to be with you, right? I want to sit on the floor and watch TV. That's what I want to do. And, you know, I want to help my child and help

28:18stimulate their, you know, systems, but I just don't have the energy to go biking with them or go play ball with them. So there are games that you can play with your child such that you don't have to be as active. And this is taking back to the games that we grew up with. There's Simon says where you just have to tell them what to do. And they are now, you know, Simon says touch your nose. You are, you are combining so many things. They're the vestibular system, your proprioceptive system, your visual system. So, you know, Simon says is a great one. If you duct a goose is another one, put some kids together, playing things that involve just physical games that don't have to be excessive movement are great. You know, if you're in a car, why not both of you? You know, you and your child play I spy. You know, you are looking around. Why don't you play? There's a game I call Follow the Car where it's a car is moving and you ask your child, like, where do you think that car is going? Where when do you think they're going to

29:20turn this way? You know, who's sitting in that car? This is all about building so many areas imagination in that area as well. Creativity. Empathy. Empathy. And that's a big one. So there was a study that was done out of, I believe it was the University of Michigan. And it was about empathy. And they say that we have decreased. It was, it was in college age students over a period of 20 years, a little bit over 20 years. And the loss of empathy was 40% loss of empathy capacity, 40% over the years. And that's huge for us. What do they attribute that to? So, you know, this study was just about empathy. It was, you know, calculating different, it was a very psychological assessment of these college age students. And I believe it started in the late 80s, actually. And then it ran until the early 2000s. So they attributed it to the,

30:23like, the digital age. I wonder if we do another one now where we're at. But, you know, because that's when the digital age just started happening. And 40% is a huge drop in empathy. But what we look at when we talk about empathy, we have emotional empathy and spatial empathy. I always talk about empathy as two branches. If you cannot sense where somebody is in space, you will not be able to have emotional empathy for them. You need to say more about this. What is that? What does that mean? So when you talk about empathy, right, that's feeling your, you know, way, feeling for you, understanding your feelings, that's emotional empathy. But if you have not sensed where that person is in relation to you, in space, you cannot process that emotion for them. You need to understand where they are in space because they all combine in this parietal lobe. And it needs to be stint. The spatial aspect needs to be stimulated first. And so if you have not stimulated that area, your emotion center will no longer,

31:30it would just won't happen where you're now being able to understand their emotions. It's a subconscious process happening where, okay, now I know where you are now, we'll see, this is not something we think about. This is just a subconscious process that happens that empathy has two branches to it. So now I sense where you are in space, only now am I going to now relate to you. And if we, and that is why I truly believe we are lacking empathy now and our children are because we don't have that spatial sense of where they are. And this is, this is very similar and I'm, I mean, a branch slightly, but it's very similar to a space. When you go to a party, you are mapping two things, physical space and social space. You need to map the physical space first.

32:31Otherwise, you will be overwhelmed. What's happening is we are not stimulating the parietal lobe enough such that when we now go into a party, oh my god, the physical space is on high alert and now already the social space is on high alert because we don't know who's at the party and we're always nervous going into this party. You have a double whammy. But back in the day, when we were not hyper stimulated on screens, we would go into a party and we would just look around the room and we're aware of everything where everything is. We feel good. It calms that system down and now we go in and we're only scared of the people there. So we're mapping only one spatial system. But now we're so overwhelmed when we go in because we're mapping space and social space both together and it's overwhelming for our brains. And this is why so many of us are now calling ourselves introverted. I called myself introverted and I'm a huge extrovert. But I was like, oh, must be paramanopause, menopause. I'm just becoming more introverted. But for me, it was I was not

33:33able to map everything at once and you know, a quick hack for that, you know, whether it's empathy, whether it's a space before you go into a room or anywhere. And if you can observe the room first. So right when you're at the corner of the room, look at where the walls are, where the ceiling is, where the floors are, where the corners are, where the tables are laid out, whatever it is, map the physical space quickly before you enter. It will do wonders for you. I can't tell you, Emily, it has changed my life. I called myself an introvert forever. I'm slowly now getting back to being my old self. And anywhere I go now, any unfamiliar, especially area that I go, I mean, I won't do it in my own house. I know the area. But anywhere I go, I map it. And it's similar to what I call the Costco effect when you go into Costco. It is so spatially overwhelming. But if you go into Costco and

34:38just quickly do a look around, you will calm your amygdala down such that that physical aspect does not make it go on high alert, your parietal lobe, senzo signals that we are, we've mapped the space. And then it's only the social aspect going on. So I think, I think there's so many things that we don't realize in the vision world that are connected to the brain. And we need to calm, you know, just like we say, calm your nervous system down, your eyes are part of the central nervous system. So we need to calm our eyes down as well. So friends, I want to jump in here to really connect the dots between Dr. Minnell's work and what we're doing at Ziba. Because a lot of people think that the phone, the phone addiction, the screen addiction is just about the content. But it's not this light, the device, the ways that our eyes are working with these screens is actually changing the physical structure of our brains, which is changing our nervous systems, which is changing how we interact

35:40in space with other humans. And it's similar with meditation. A lot of people think that meditation is just about the content of the content of your thoughts or, you know, dreaming about bubble baths or waterfalls or visualizing your chakras. And it's not true, especially with Ziba, what's happening is that you are not only changing your neurochemistry, but over time you are changing the architecture of your brain. Within weeks, you can actually shift your corpus callusum, which is the bridge between the right and left hemispheres of the brain. And so much of what we're talking about in this episode is how the way they are using your eyes, which are the front lines of your nervous system. And it's even we're all about regulating and optimizing your nervous system, about eradicating stress at a cellular level. But just like Dr. Manal's work is showing that if you're only using your eyes in a certain way, that's going to change not only your eyes, but your brain. Well, same is true of consciousness. If you stay chronically in fight or flight, not only are you flooding your brain in body with a adrenaline cortisol, which are acidic in nature over time that is going to over

36:43exercise the amygdala, which is the fear center of your brain, and that will under exercise, not only your prefrontal cortex, not only the executive and decision making center of your brain, but also the right left brain coherence, that neuroplasticity, that regeneration that is necessary to be our biggest brightest, most brilliant selves, that is necessary for innovation and creation, that is necessary for a balance of masculine and feminine. So I just wanted to say that just like Dr. Manal is giving us solutions for how we can escape this flat world and change not only our anxiety levels, but also change the architecture of our eyes and brains, similar with meditation. It's not about just changing your neurochemistry, you're actually changing the structure of your brain and the vessel through which you hold your consciousness. So if you're curious about learning more about why Ziva is so powerful, why it can re-architect your brain, why it can help you to grow your corpus colosum by 18% in just a matter of weeks, check out the work you can go to our Instagram at Ziva

37:46Meditation or ZivaMeditation.com. All right, back to Dr. Manal. It's so brilliant. Thank you for that. I'm going to start doing that and yes, it's really because if you think about it, you know, 10,000 years ago, 5,000 years ago, we had our tribe. We had maybe we were nomadic, but even if we were nomadic, we would go survey the land, put down camp and be there for a while. It wouldn't be, I'm just in this tiny little hut and then around 5,000 people out of festival and then back to my tiny little hut. Like that discrepancy, of course, is going to be very expensive to the nervous system, but this is a really helpful tool that we can start to use before a party, before an event, even shopping, going in, mapping the physical space so that you feel safe inside of this. It's brilliant. And actually, as you were saying this, I realized, you know, I mean, I teach meditation for a living, like emotional awareness and empathy and getting inside of someone's experience is part of my job, and I'm very good at it. But I had never linked this because I was a musical theater major and I was

38:50on Broadway for 10 years. And part of why I recommend that people study theater no matter what their profession or desire is, is that spatial awareness? Like when you dance for a living, not only are you learning choreography, like you see something and then you get your body to do it, which is a very high level of this proprioception, but even more than that, it's knowing where on the stage, your physical body is in relationship to others and in relationship to the stage. So like, when I would swing on Broadway, I would under study many different roles. So if I was on Fershilo one night, I would be on number seven starting on the left foot. If I was on Fershilo, I'd be on number six starting on the right foot, but holding that simple to naity of where I need to be in space and relationship to everyone else, I had never attributed to how that might have given me superpowers to have empathy and relational awareness of other people in my job. So thank you for that. That's really. And I love that you shared that Emily because I was smiling because I actually have a chapter in the book that we talk about something so similar that our kids now, you know, I actually

39:55talked about this where I had a child decline my son's birthday party invite. It was like a basketball birthday party where they're all going to the community center and play play ball, declined it and parents said it's because he doesn't play group sports. And I said, no, no, this is just fun. They're all just going to have fun. Yeah, but he doesn't he doesn't work well in that. And then I also heard another child saying that we're not joining certain teams at school because we only like solo sports like track and cross country, things like that. So we are seeing an uptick in children who will literally not want to be in space with other kids. And what's also happening is they're telling to bump each other more. There's a lot more crying kids coming off the court because I didn't sense you and I bumped you and they're upset. And that was part of ball play from the very beginning where you bumped each other. But now it's like, no, now you've offended me. Why did you bump me? We are not able to work as a team anymore. And I think that's very similar

40:59to your story, but we are seeing it in athletics now for a lot of our children and interesting enough, like a lot of elite athletes will actually have spatial awareness training and people don't realize this. Wow. So soccer players elite soccer players have spatial awareness training. Wow, that's really cool. And actually just this weekend, I was at I was emceeing a festival and on the plane on the right home, I was talking to a woman who has a 10 year old son. And I was just talking about like, how do you deal with screens and how do you do in your household? Because there's like, it's a constant question mark for parents right now. And she said, well, for me, I don't tell my son what he can, can't do. But he got really into soccer actually. Thank goodness. And so she said, we, I said, look, you can do soccer and we can do travel soccer. But this is going to take a lot of time between your homework and this and practice. So you have to make a call. If you want to do this, you're going to have to give up Minecraft or Roblox or whatever it was that he was playing. We can't do that on the weekdays. And so it was a decision

41:59that the child made because to your point, he was then prioritizing the opportunity cost, right? But it was a conscious decision that the parent was highlighting versus like, I as a parent, I'm giving you this boundary. And I just thought that was a nice frame. And unfortunately, I think a lot of kids would choose Roblox and would choose Minecraft or would choose YouTube. But if they're already so addicted to it and they think that they're bad at sports. But it's like if we can get that early enough of like, this is what this is costing you. And here's the reward. Here's the endorphins. Here's the joy, the strength, the accomplishment that you can get. This earned dopamine from moving your physical body. And like, you know, what is going to be required of us as a species as we move through these really intense, transitory times? Like we're we're going to need each other. And we're going to need each other physically. And I think that, you know, it's going to be very fascinating to see what happens if we have to start farming our own food or making our own electricity. And then we've got a lot of people that don't even know how to navigate to the drugstore. I love that story that you said because, you know, we also talk about it this in the book. It's

43:03called cognitive reframing. You are just reframing that thought process. And I do that with my actual 10 year old as well. And it's funny because his friends now connect on video calls playing Roblox and whatever. And that's how they connect. These are their friendships now. They no longer have play dates. Those days are gone. And yeah, especially, I don't know, especially with boys, and you know, I don't say to him, don't call them back or don't be on the call with them. That is like a punishment or a consequence. They don't like that. It doesn't work like that. So I kind of reframe that. And I say, Hey, can you go help your little brother? He needs that. You know, or little things like that. Or yeah, you know what? Actually, I need you doing that in the backyard because that's going to happen. Like, so then he gets occupied. So sometimes we, as parents, just need to take that extra moment to shift it because it's not worth the fight. It's just not worth the fight. And I do that with myself all the time. I talk to myself all the time. How do you parent yourself? Because like, let's say, you know, last night, I know I need to go to

44:06sleep and instead, that was amazing. It's rolling. So like, yeah, how do you dumb yourself? I talk to myself all the time. This is my new technique over the last three years. I was like, let's get going insane. But no, I have to parent myself. And I have. And I do say like, you know what? I say, tomorrow is a new day. I need to be off this phone so that I have more time for myself. You know, whatever works for you. For me, it's going to put this down so that I can go to the mall for an hour tomorrow and I can get better sleep. Like, whatever works for you as your reward system for yourself. I think that's, that's huge because you have to look at the trade off when you are scrolling and, you know, on your phone at night, you are only stimulating that certain system. You are going to wake up foggy and groggy because think of your brain as need a GPS system. I always think of the pridele area as your GPS. This is a big part of the brain processing your dorsal stream. And this is your brain's GPS system. It needs a nightly recalibration just like your

45:12phone. If you are new operating our brains need a nightly recalibration, just like we got to plug the phone in, we got to charge, we got to shut down those apps, brain needs the same thing. Okay, so talk to it. What does that look like? What we the optimal brain recalibration at night? So I mean, getting good quality sleep and getting enough sleep and at a certain time, I truly believe we should be sleeping at, you know, same time every day, roughly, right? So if you sleep three hours later that day because you want to scroll on your phone, your brain is not getting that great recalibration or great reset. And now you're going to wake up foggy and groggy. You're probably not going to remember where you have to go. You are going to be more dependent on your GPS because your brain's just not going to be up to speed processing at the right speed, especially that GPS area, the parietal lobe area. So this is why you're going to be confused. You might be wobbly. You might be, you know, want to just be at home and not move. That's why so many of us just want to sit at home

46:14and be hermits because we just feel and we we talk it up to I'm just overworking or I'm introverted. That's what I talked it up to. That's what happened to me. And then my nervous system went on high alert and I got really stressed and, you know, everything went downhill. And I think that's why our brains need that nightly recalibration. And that's how I rephrase it in my head. That my brain needs this. Otherwise, I'm going to wake up really foggy. I'm going to have a really sucky day tomorrow. So I need to do this. And whatever it takes, there's some people who need to put their phone outside. For me, it's turning my it's the action of turning it over. I don't know why. If I just flip it, that means it's done. I don't don't ask me why. It might be a brain thing. But it's like if I flip the phone and I just even though the screen is black, if it's just flipped, we're good. And you know, sometimes it means placing your phone further on your bedstand. So when you are in bed, you won't have that urge to reach it. You can't reach it. So then you're lazy

47:15to go get it. So you know, find that thing that works for you. But I think it's so important to have that recalibration. Just like we talk about our circadian rhythms, the same thing. I just bought an alarm clock called Hatch. I should get them on as a sponsor. But I'm doing it as a as a as a desire and an attempt to have more recalibration because it will play podcasts. It can play music. You can set it to where it starts having a light in the morning. It's easing you into the alarm before it goes off. But really, I use that. I'll listen to podcasts or music sometimes at night to go to sleep. And so I was like, if I could do that with something other than my phone, then I could put my phone on another room. And I think that would set me up for success. Also, one of the things we teach in one of our advanced trainings is promises and consequences. I don't know if this is helpful for you or in your work. But basically, it's like, what is your promise to yourself? And it could be around anything working out, but let's say specifically phone usage or social media. Because if I have an addiction, it's social media. And so for me, my promise was, I have to be and it would affect my sleep. So it was like, okay,

48:22if I'm not asleep by midnight, then my consequence, that's my promise to myself. I'm going to go to bed before midnight every single night. And if I don't keep that promise to myself, then my consequence is I cannot be on social media the next day at all. So it's not it's not a punishment. It's not punitive, but it's like I'm coming after my vice to fuel my desire to fuel my greatness. And so I love that you're inviting people into this to this recalibration. So can you give us a little window into your story? Like what happened for you with the anxiety? And when you were saying, I'm just chalking this up to Paramounta Post because I've found that as well. Like, oh, maybe I'm just getting older and I just don't want to go out as much. So this is really helpful to have in my awareness of like making sure like, is this a really a desire that I want to go, but my body's feeling overwhelmed. But what was your journey? How did you come to write stuck in a flat world? Yeah, I mean, Emily, you and I were talking earlier that I am not a book reader. Like I had not read a book, you know, I'm embarrassed to say, but maybe one in my life and that too because

49:23of school, most of the stuff I won book in your whole way. I want it. I want to say that. Yes. And I'm how did you get to be a doctor reading one book? So that would be like a pleasure book. But I mean, like I would read research papers. I read my textbooks. Like for me, I was a nerd, but I loved like medical stuff. But I would never read a book for fun. That does not happen. Uh-huh. Unless it's like a research article or something like that or magazines, that's fine. But books were not my thing. Like, and I'm embarrassed to say it, but it is true. And it just was not my thing. And I had not I never thought I would write a book. Like this would just never happen. And it was my way of getting my word out there because you can reach so many more people through a book. I can't reach so many people in my clinic. I only have a limited number of hours. But how I got to writing this book was everyone has a personal journey, I think, behind every book. And for me, it was, I'm an optometrist. So I work in clinic and I am not on a computer all day.

50:26I am talking to people and moving around, we chart for a bit, but that's not the the basis. And I was not on social media at that time. Actually, I never had a personal account. And I didn't have the desire. Like there was no motivation around that. And I went from that to being off for health reasons. So I had to be off work. And I was off for about, you know, I want to say about three months. And I had always wanted to build a podcast because I'm a talker. And I did not know how to do one. So I said, you know what, I'm off work. I, what am I going to do with my time? I need to do this. So I just started researching and researching and like, what am I going to do? How am I going to start it? Platforms, everything. I was on a computer, probably more than the average person. I want to say 12 hours a day. I would be up until three on this computer, just everything, piecing it. I had no help. So I was doing everything myself. And then I was like, well, then I need to start social media. And then I need to do all of this,

51:28right? Because how am I going to get the word out? How am I going to get guess? And I was just on a computer straight. And over about two months, I would say I was starting to notice changes. You know, changes would be I did not want to drive. So I would not want to pick up my kids from school because the parking lot gets congested. And so I would always make an excuse to my husband. I would not want to go to Walmart. Actually, I don't think I went to Walmart for a good like two years. And I used to go all like, that's the closest to me. So, you know, he would do all those trips. I'd never set foot in a grocery store. I had never gone, I stopped going to Costco completely. And I had always gone before. So my husband was picking up a lot of that slack. But he thought it was just busy. And because I was already having health issues, maybe that was the reason. And I actually stopped seeing my friends. I had lost a lot of friends in that period. I was turning down things. I didn't want to go. But I also didn't know what to tell people. Why was I not going?

52:30I didn't know. And my brain started getting foggy. Things I thought like postpartum, I'm way past that. So I don't know what's happening. And I didn't want to play with my kids. So I wouldn't want to sit on the carpet and you know, play. They were little. I was just losing my drive in life. And all I would keep doing was going back to the computer like an addiction. And then one day, my little one, he was probably about three or so at that time. He, we had moved into a new house and it had like these steps that go really high. And he had fell down the whole flight of stairs. And my office or my workstation is actually right next to that flight of stairs. And my other two went running to him because obviously he was really crying. And they started screaming, mama, mama, but I didn't flinch. I didn't flinch. And it took me a second. I got up.

53:30You know, I feel like I probably was a bit like off balance. And it took me a second to go down to him. But the way the two of them looked at me, Emily, I knew in that moment I was not a good mom. Like I knew that. And I said, I need help. I need help. And I wasn't sure if this, like I was getting more anxiety, more panic attacks in this period. And I wasn't sure like, maybe this is my anxiety. Maybe I should be on medication. And so I went to my doctor and I had diagnosed myself with either I have early Alzheimer's. We, you know, we hear a lot of people having early Alzheimer's Parkinson's. So maybe that was it. Either it's mole toxicity, which is making my brain just so foggy because we had moved into a house. There must be mold somewhere and we did have that all checked. Or I have foggy brain because this is paramanopause, menopause, like like something is happening to me. And I said, I, you know, I need you to also order an MRI. The wait time here is very long for an MRI.

54:32So actually never had that done for non urgent. It can be up to a year. So I decided, you know, my doctor was not very helpful. And I decided that I'm going to, I have to figure this out for my kids because the way they looked at me was. It was not something I could live with. I was prior to that. I was a very present mom. And I started doing a lot of research. Like what has changed in my life in this period where I have gone crazy. And when I started seeing more and more research about screen time, I started investigating. And this was something we did not learn in school. We did not, we talked about the dorsal evental, ventral stream, but we didn't really separate the two where it's like the spatial awareness. We had not heard that word in school through training. I was trained 20 years ago. And it was shocking to me. And I started researching like grounding exercises and spatial awareness exercises. And slowly, I mean, it took me a long time. I was in a

55:38big mass. It took me a long time. But I would say at least a year or even a year and a half later, I started slowly being able to do certain things. I still can't do everything. I'm not going to lie. I still can't. I need small, small stints. Like I will not go to a Costco on a weekend. I will go in the daytime on a weekday now. But even that was a baby step. And I always tell people separate your environment in chunks. Do it in timely manners. Do it in chunks. Know that you don't have to be overwhelmed your system all the time. Just be proud of yourself that you even took that step to do something and met it halfway in between. Right. So I think for me, you know, I hope this story helps others because we are so often being labeled and labeling our children as, you know, anxiety, ADHD, clumsy, misbehaved. And you know, we have a chapter in the book called It's Not Behavior. And sure, they might have all these things. And I'm seeing so many kids coming in saying,

56:45they asked me to get my vision checked because my child's, my child's vision checked because they've been told that he might be on the spectrum. So many, and I see so many signs of this spatial awareness concerns. We talk about screen time and how to limit that and recalibration because this conversation that should have been an eye exam ends up being all of that. But the child feels different a year later. They are different a year later. They have less symptoms of the clumsiness of the anxiety of the ADHD. After what happens in that year? Less clumsiness. Less. But like what is the behavioral change or what's happening with their eyes or the screen that's creating those results? So I think number one, it's more about ways to change what they're doing. So for example, if a child comes in and moms like, you know, they're not wanting to go to birthday parties, they're introverted, they don't know how to play with other kids. I get all these signs of they're getting anxious or hyper fixated. For me,

57:48that's about their environment. They're not spatially more aware. And so we go in small steps, you know, I will tell the parents, you know, every Saturday morning, let's go to a library. Have them go to a library with you because that's a calm environment for them. Have them walk the grocery aisles at nighttime when it's less busy or like whatever works for them. But have them go into environments with you that will not overwhelm them. Because for me, when you tell me they can't go to birthday party and void, they're standing at the side of a playground, not wanting to other children. That means there is a spatial connection piece to this. And so have them connect with one friend at a time, you know, make sure that we are talking about spatial awareness exercises versus just sitting on a screen, you know, whether that means, you know, there's one thing where I say for children is I connect by walking and talking. So when you are walking, talk to your child

58:52because that is actually building their other areas of their pride alone. Don't just walk, but connect, walk and talk that's building a lot of systems. There is also have your child make a phone call every day. And I know that I'm totally probably throwing everyone off, but there's actually a chapter in my book about phone calls. Phone calls are semi-audio, not video, I'm assuming. Yes, yes, sorry, yes, like a regular phone call because we don't do that anymore. There is so many things in a phone call involved in stimulating these systems that we rely on visually, like if you video call them, but we want to start decoding them through our Pride-alogue system, through audio, sensing the space in terms of like if you're talking to me on a phone, like should I interject, should I not, should I pause, there's certain, there's certain things in the art of a phone call that we are missing nowadays. So I tell my children they have to each call their grandparents every day.

59:56So they each do and it has to be on audio. And I still sense that they're a bit awkward when they call, but you know, they'll grow into it. And I think that's so that that's such a big part of it. So, you know, I think for me it's every child is different and I don't know what's going to work for every parent. There are certain exercises that I sometimes will give some some children where stare at your two fingers and then when you're looking at them, then move them far apart as far as you can and notice it's hard for me to look at you and do this. So I'm just doing without looking at you doing great, but have your fingers and then go apart and where is the furthest or the widest that you can see without moving your head. Sorry, you can't move your eyes either. What do you mean you can't move your eyes? Yeah, so you're looking at your fingers. And you're still looking straight ahead. Okay. And do you see where your fingers are still, but you're looking straight ahead? Yeah, I lose them about, I don't know what this angle is,

1:00:59but like around here. Yeah, so you want to keep like, so you want to keep expanding that eventually, right? Okay. Where you're able to stretch your peripheral awareness as much as you can. So, you know, even if you do this five times, you know, where you are looking at your, where you can notice your hands for 20 seconds, five times every day. I mean, I think that's great. There's no, there's no, and that's like something you could introduce as a game with your kid, you know, it's like, hey, we're going to do the finger game or something and just make it something silly versus like, oh, we need to get you off the screen or there's something wrong. Like this is a fun thing that we can do together. And I love that like an audio call to your grandparents or I co-parent, so I'm away from my son every other week. So I think implementing, you know, even if it's five minutes, like we're going to do an audio call every day. That would be amazing. And also with the peripheral, what's coming through is creative problem solving. Like the solutions might come out

1:02:01of quote unquote left field, but if your physical brain doesn't have the ability to understand where we are in space, what problem we're solving and then to see and feel the peripheral, it's like, we're just going to go for the obvious solution. And so I'm just so fascinated how this would impact conscious time. And you know, Emily, like people don't love exercises. Like I know when I go to my physiotherapist, I'm like, oh, especially children, right? My child will never do the stretches that he's supposed to do for basketball, right? That's just the way we are in general. I, you know, even as a child, like we, a lot of us don't follow those exercises. We can't put them into our routines. And we're lazy about it. So, you know, sometimes with children doing exercises, is your calling at that is really hard. So like you said, you don't kind of make it a game. And there was a trend that came out on TikTok called the color walk. It was a while ago. I think it's called the color walk. And it was influencers that were just going out for a walk and taking pictures. So pick a color

1:03:03blue and then take pictures of anything that you see as blue. And it was interesting. They did it innocently as this is just a cool trend. And they were posting it. So if you, you look it up on TikTok, color walk, like color and then walking, you'll see people have posted these videos. But for me, that was fascinating. That is building so much spatial awareness. So make it fun for your kids. Ask them to take their little cameras. You know, like they have those little kitty cameras my kids have. And let's walk outside. And why don't you find different color leaves or pick a color and just take pictures. That is building so much spatial awareness in a fun way. You don't have to make it an exercise. Yeah, game is fun. That's it. Okay, final question before we start to wrap. And that is I had the great fortune of speaking at Gaia right after Dr. Naseem Harmar, Dr. Naseem, doing his a physicist, forgetting his last name right now. Naseem will look him up. But anyway,

1:04:04he had a fascinating conversation about not just the screens, not just the content. Because I think we've blamed a lot of this stress and anxiety on the content of what's coming through social media. So I like that you're actually talking about the device and the light in our eyes and the structure and the biology and like that it's not just what we're receiving, right? It's not just the content that it is shaping our architecture of our brain and of our eyes. However, what Naseem said is that the light waves themselves that are coming off of the phone and I don't know if this is true of laptops as well. But that most light waves go in a curve and please fact check me on this because this is 100% repeated in hearsay. But he said that the angle of the light coming from the phone is almost like 90 degree angles like cubes. And actually like the angle of the light coming in is damaging our eyes. And I'd never heard anyone talk about this but this man is very, very leading. Yes, I'm going to Google that like that is that is so fascinating. I have never heard about it.

1:05:05But I would love to like look into that because I think that's fascinating. Yeah, I would check it out. I mean see if you can find something either on the light or on his thinking about it, but it might be really germine to work and if it's helpful, I hope that it it maybe it inspires the next book. Yes. Yes. But is there anything that you wish that I had asked you anything that feels important for people to hear about this subject about getting unstuck from a flat world and or you know why isn't everyone you know getting unstuck from these are this flat world. I think that there is so many things that we blame you know ourselves for whether it's anxiety, ADHD, clumsiness as we're getting older women, foggy brain and sure there are so many there can be multiple components to this. But please don't disregard vision as a component. There is yeah, like I reiterate what I said at the beginning, which was your eyes are the window to your soul and

1:06:07your brain and your systemic health. There are so many things that we can detect your blood vessels, your nervous system. We can detect strokes before they happen. I have seen multiple times cholesterol plaques block blood vessels where I'm like you need to go to the hospital. You're about to have a stroke in one day, one week, one month. I don't know, but you need to go there. And you can see that from someone's eyes. Yes, because we see the the plaque blocking in the blood vessel that's going to dislodge eventually with blood flow. And I have said multiple people in my career to the hospital that have immediately been put on blood thinners, et cetera, et cetera. So I think we we underestimate the power of the eye and our vision and vision is not just about 2020. Can you read that chart and get the gold star and go home? Vision is about so much more. It's not just a number. It is about your awareness and what your brain is then processing and interpreting it as. Well, well, thank you so much for your dedication to this work for helping us to get unstuck from

1:07:12these flat worlds for teaching us of, you know, the eyes are not just a window to the soul, but also window to our nervous systems to our brains to our consciousness. And I really appreciate all of the practical tools that you've given us of things that we can do before our screen time, after our screen time, reframes for ourselves and for our children. I found this really, really valuable and we'll put a link to the book below. And is there anything else you want people to know? Yeah. No, I mean, I mean, thank you for having me. This was excellent Emily and, you know, I love your energy and your vibe. And I'm just so happy to be here because I think so much now modern medicine is really about bringing back these lifestyle ancient practices into our life to just ground us, make us more present. And I, you know, I just want people to know, you know, if you don't know where you are in space, kind of like I didn't, you won't know where you are in your own story in your own life. And knowing where you are in

1:08:13space, where your body is in space and having that peripheral awareness is so important. Yeah, it's like the context and then the context can provide safety and from that space of safety, we can expand and we can do what we incarnated to do, like what our soul really came here to do. But that first we have to know where we are in space. So thank you so much. It's really a delight to have you and friends. If you have enjoyed this episode, my recommendation, my request would be to screenshot it, share it on social media, tag us, share your ah-ha's because the reason why we do this, the reason why she wrote the book, the reason why I make this podcast is really to get this media as medicine out there, like how many people are unnecessarily suffering right now because they don't know where they are in space because they are stuck in a flat world. So if there's someone in your world that you think would benefit from this message, from this podcast, please send it to them, please share it. And as always, a five star rating goes a long way and we will see you next week on why isn't everyone doing this. Bye bye. Thank you, Dr. Anorolle. Thank you so much, Emily.