10-5-26 - John Beck - Former BYU QB & QB Coach 3DQB - What affects a QB when throwing the football in wet weather?

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1:00Welcome back, hoogers sports 103-98.3 ESPN, the fan. I'm Ben Crittle Broadcasting from our Vanderweld Studios. Vanderweld.com, get on a free Q&A, no obligation to invest Q&A with our tax mar-wealth advisors towards the end of the year. They can limit some of your tax exposure and help kind of just limit some of the uncle Sam tax that takes you every single year. It is time for a little keeping up with the coogers, getting caught up with a former BYU crate, and a quarterback scientist is going to be brought to you by odon menswear odon menswear.com. If you're looking to maybe elevate your suit game, your business attire, your church attire, then you gotta hit up my guys with red odon menswear, utilize the Crittle 15 coupon code, you get 15% off whether it's a suit, dress shirt, ties, you name it, they got you covered, odon menswear odon menswear.com. Let's get out to the hotline, welcome in. Quarterback scientists of 3DQB, we got former BYU grade John Beck on the line, John, how are you, how was the weekend?

2:02I was a good weekend, a lot of football, all three of the boys got some wins, so we're happy, it was good. Love it, getting dubs on the weekend, and I'm sure you enjoyed the general conference as well. We'll get into, maybe in our next podcast, we'll do a little general conference breakdown, but we gotta a BYU football game to break down. TCU on the road, they hadn't beat them since you were on the field at M&G quarter stadium. How good is it that BYU finally got that monkey off their back? Yeah, I think it's awesome to get away, and I know that it didn't come in the way that kind of everyone probably predicted. There were some weather issues that I think affected a little bit of the game. Obviously it was hard for BYU's offense to get in the rhythm that they wanted to establish and that they expect each week. I thought the defense did a huge job of creating a big turnover, and we've said it many times on the show, we always say when you wanna have a special season, when you wanna have that undefeated or near undefeated,

3:04there's always gonna be a game here or there that does not go the way you expect, and really good football teams find a way to win it. And so to me, this can be a good thing that BYU experienced this, because there may be a quarter here or there, there may be a half that is similar to what they experienced on Saturday down the road, and they'll be better prepared for it because of it. How do you think the weather impacted the play calling, the throw game, maybe the game plan that was initially instituted going into this week? It's so hard to tell you have the TV coffee and sometimes the TV coffee, as that camera pans across the field, it's hard to gauge exactly what type of precipitation it's hard to gauge what the field condition on the field looks like, also the football, just knowing Dallas and how humid of an area it is, every bit of the party of the United States, when it gets damp and wet, it feels different,

4:05like damp and wet up in Buffalo feels very different from damp and wet down in San Diego, and it's just all over the place. So I know that there was probably some feelings of, okay, it's not working, I can tell that the past game, there's a bit of inconsistency, it could've been because of the ball, could've been because of how it's coming off with a quarterback's hand, could've be just how it affects timing, because of the throw velocity, all those things, and so yes, it does impact play calling. There are some conditions where you have to be smart about the type of concepts that you run, because of what's the footing like. So there's a lot of things that can be affected by it, and again, I go back to, though, having experience that should be a good thing for them because down the road, there's a really high chance that they could blame another big time game, and those might be the weather conditions. We see it all the time in NFL football playoff games, and certain teams find a way to still be able to be consistent, efficient, move the football

5:06and bad weather games, and you've got to be able to call the right place for the right people. And from a quarterback standpoint, there are some quarterbacks that because of hand size, because of being acclimated to that type of a weather, growing up with it a little bit more, they can throw in that weather a little easier than some of the guys that come from drier climates or may not have the biggest hands. Yeah, and that's what I was gonna ask you. Is there like a measurement that, like you're saying, hey, like in wet weather games, waterlogged balls are always tough to throw, right? Those are difficult to throw, but is hand size an impactful, I guess, objective measurement tool to determine whether or not you can actually get into your throw game and wet weather games? I would say it's not guaranteed, but it absolutely helps. I would say there's a reason why certain NFL teams, like if you look at the Green Bay Packers, when they draft a quarterback, hand size is really high up there.

6:09You go from Brett Farff, who've had some of the biggest hands of any NFL quarterback ever. Aaron Rogers, really big hands, Jordan Love, big hands. These guys, they know based off of weather, we have to have a guy that has those hands that can handle it. Now, I've been around some guys that because of where they grew up, they're just not used to wet balls. And so even if they have big hands, they're a little bit uncomfortable with it. Guys from the South, they have to play with very damp footballs because of sweat all the time. And so they're accustomed to these watery, sweaty footballs. But I know some guys that have slightly smaller hands, but because they're used to it, they throw the ball just fine. They know how to adjust their knuckles. They know where the ball needs to fit in their grip to make it work. And so it's not a guaranteed. Hand size does not guarantee it. And I think the best thing that I tell quarterbacks is, if you feel a little bit uncomfortable with it, you have to go put in the work on your own

7:09to spend enough time throwing wet footballs. So the next time that it happens, you're comfortable with it. You just, I mean, and maybe comfortable is not the right word because I don't know if there's any quarterback that loves throwing a wet ball, but it's just they can say, okay, I know how to manage this. I know how to handle it. What's the hand size that you're like, okay, like he could probably throw a wet waterlock ball. And do you like the thumb to pinky measurement or the thumb to top of the middle finger measurement, which one's more impactful or better to measure if that particular, you know, the determining factor? I would say if you gathered a bunch of scouts in a room from NFL teams and said, what are the you guys are looking for? They would say we would prefer a quarterback to be as close to 10 or over 10 inches. Over 10 inches is a big hand. Most quarterbacks I would say, if you're in that like six one to six four range,

8:11you're probably somewhere between nine and a half to 10 inches. I know some quarterbacks that are a little bit on the smaller end, but they have very big hands, 10 to 10 and an eighth, 10 and a quarter, and they're under six feet. And then I know some guys that are over six feet, they're six, three, six four, and their hands are only nine and a half. So I now going back to your other second question, do I believe in thumb to pinky? Like I think that like I like to see where the grip sits on the ball because finger length has a very big difference as well. I'll give an example. I think Joe Flacco and I by the NFL measurements, I think we had very closely similar hand size, but Joe's finger length was longer than mine. And so we used to kind of say like, it's kind of a messed up way to judge hands because it doesn't show the full aspect of the hand. And some guys have a little bit smaller thumbs, but longer fingers. And so they still cover a lot of the ball. Some guys have longer thumbs, the fingers aren't as long,

9:13but they still get a big size because of how big they're thumb is. So I like when the NFL combined videotapes the quarterback's hands on the ball. I'm a big believer is show me where the point of your pointer finger is at the top of the ball, show me what lace your pinky is either landing in or rests next to and then show me where your thumb gets on the other side of the ball. Those three points kind of triangulating those three points, I think that gives you a better position of hand size on a ball. So the fourth point would be possibly, and I like how you triangulate that. I think that's really insightful. What about the last, the finger on the last lace, right? So that distal IP joint, right? At the, you know, is it middle finger? Is it typically middle finger or ring finger, right? That sits on that last lace. And is it typically the last lake or second on the last lace for most quarterbacks? No, so everybody has a different grip and they can be specified by like zero, two, four,

10:15zero or one, three. Some guys, their pinky will rest inside the lace. And then so you wanna see, well, how many laces are left? I would say most quarterbacks leave three laces, some quarterbacks leave two laces. You have the Patrick Mahomes, the Russell Wilson, they hold much higher on the ball. You have the guys with the really big hands, Brett Farve and Carson Palmer, they would go almost down to the very last lace on the ball where their finger would almost sit like right at the very bottom of it. But other quarterbacks, their pinky actually rest just outside of the lace. So instead of fitting in between the two of them, it actually sits right outside of it. And then so the only laces that are, fingers that are touching laces are their ring finger and their middle finger. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, where do you prefer? Where did you throw from? What was your grip like when you were playing? And I know you still throw the rock, you slung the pill quite nicely at the alumni game still throwing some babies out there.

11:17Where do you sit with your grip? Yeah, so my ice funny, I have bent pinkies. I was just born that way. So my pinky actually curves and rests right in on the lace. And I was a curve, you had to pull it outward. Inward or outward? Inward. Oh, wow. It turns in. Yeah. I believe it's 21 year. My hands are big enough to get down to only leave two laces. And when I first went to the NFL ball, I was fiddling with, you know what, maybe my hand can get down a lace. And I could throw the ball fine, but it wasn't what I naturally grabbed when I grabbed the football. And I had to shift my hand a little bit. And I thought, you know what, it's coming off fine. And one of the reasons why I was messing with it was, when I first went to Miami, I was not used to all of the sweat on the ball. Being so humid, your center, and just playing ball down there, the ball is very sloppy and wet. And so there were a lot of practices

12:18that my ball would have like this little flutter in the beginning when I first got down there. And so I wondered, hey, my hands big enough, should I cover more of the ball? Will that help a little bit? And it did to a degree, but it wasn't my most natural where my hand wanted to go when I grabbed it. So I had to learn a few other little tricks, but I rest my middle finger sits above the laces like a gap. And then my ring finger sits in the laces and then my pinky finger sits, it kind of curves into that lacing. I leave three. So you kind of alluded to it. How do you mitigate some of the risk of waterlogged games, waterlogged ball games where you're having to navigate that and forecast that. Okay, so there's even science like quarterbacks, no footballs. Like I got to know what the ball is going to feel like going into certain weather. I learned a tough one of that. I'm playing for the dolphins and the balls

13:18that felt really good in my hands in the equipment room and on the field in Miami. We played a game up in Buffalo in really cold and snowy conditions and all of the sudden those balls that felt great to my hand there were as slick as could be. And I actually had one come out of my hand and I learned a really good lesson then of, I have to pick the football based off of what the condition where I'm going. And unless you have previous experience, you don't know how the leather changes in those environments. And that was a learning lesson for me of, I want balls that have a little more of the pebble to it that it's not lost when they break it in, but I have to make sure that when they break it in, they don't lose that pebbling for me. But there can be also things with the conditioning, with the leather conditioner used on the balls, balls that are heavily conditioned with leather conditioner when they get wet. They're much, it's much slippery or when it gets wet. And so you have to be really good about the type of breaking

14:20in that has happened to the footballs. Now, going to the BYU game, because we've talked all about hands and footballs, that's why I said it's hard to gauge what that all is like when you're watching on TV. We don't have a hand on that football. You know, we don't have what that football when it hits the wet grass. Also, what are the referees doing to it? Are they carrying towels with them? Are they not carrying towels with them? Is it a little bit of a mist? Sometimes a little bit of a mist gives you a little tack. If it's a little bit heavier, now that ball is going to feel more wet. Some guys, they say, I don't want to wipe my hand off on my towel. I don't want to totally dry hand, going to a totally wet ball. So what they do is they just slightly take a little bit of the moisture off their hand, so that there's still a little bit of moisture in their hand when it touches the moist football. So so much that depends on a guy's grip. Some guys have fat chunky hands and fat chunky fingers. They have to hold the ball a little bit differently than the guy with thinner hands, thinner fingers,

15:21because it comes down to now how much of that finger area is on the football. I'm an advocate for leather on leather. So like a thinner leather glove, all weather glove, when you get it wet, it tends to provide a little bit more tack to a leather football. Not everyone likes gloves, right? It just depends on how you like to throw the ball, how you like it to feel. But when do you implement a glove, like a traditional leather glove into your throw game? I, me personally, I only used a glove when it was like frigid weather conditions. I, my first two starts in the NFL were like terrible conditions. We played a game in Philly, and it was like sleep, and wet, and damp everywhere. And then my second start was a Monday night game at Pittsburgh, where it had like dumped for days leading up to it, and a college team had played on it, and the ground was like coming apart.

16:22And I had to go with my bare hand in both of those, because I preferred just bare hand on a wet football. But when it became so cold, and like, you know, I don't want to say wet, but like when it gets cold, there's a dampness to the really, really cold. I went to a glove. I actually threw with the glove in one of the seasons I played in the Canada, because I was so, the Canadian football has a white stripe going all the way around it, and my thumb would sit on the white paint on the stripe, and I hated it. And so if it was a very like, painty stripe, not a worn stripe, I just was like, screw it. I can put this glove on right now, and I won't fill that stripe, and I can still throw it fine. So, you know, again, everybody has, I remember having this conversation with Drew Breeze, because he was having playoff games that he was choosing between a glove or not, and so much of it went just on like, how does my hand respond in certain conditions?

17:24And some guys, the hand in colder conditions, they're like, I just want that glove on it. Let's get to the TCU game, play calling, right? Like, obviously there's adapt adaptations. LJ got injured. It looked like they were trying to get horizontal, initially, the jets, the outside zone, a lot of quick screen game, and they had to change it up. Finally, they started getting linear, a lot of bear run in the ball, a little QB draw, and sometimes he was just taken off after setting his feet and not liking what he saw. Journey, Tonga, finally, started running press, to start to run a little bit better in the fourth quarter. What did you see from the play calling and execution offensively? Yeah, I mean, I think going back to LJ, when you have a guy that is a hard deed of your team, this is the returning player of the year for the conference, and when he steps out, I know as a team, you, oh, okay, what does this mean? Are we going to get him back? Like, is he back in as a play caller,

18:25that can affect you, right? You always have to be prepared as a play caller for guys going down, but of course, you have things built into your game plan because of your players, and so I think BYU, they kind of had to find, okay, how are we going to win this game? Which way is it going to come? Being able to have a guy like Bearbock Meyer, where you can call a pass, and if it's not clean, he can take off and run and get you yards, that's huge. BYU has had for years. This is not just in the Bearbock Meyer years. This goes all the way back to the Zach Wilson years. It's stuff that is built into concept over here with a built-in QB draw. I can take the throw based off of numbers, I can react and take the QB draw, and they can have some of those built in. So I think that A-Rod probably had to make some adjustments, but he can still build in Bear's legs. And in the collegiate game, this is why so many coordinators prefer a quarterback that can make plays with their feet is because of that,

19:26because of building that into the system's space and the bind that it puts defenses in. So I think BYU had to find a way to win without it looking like how they thought it was gonna. And it was good to see the run game pick up, and it was good to see Bear makes a big play. His ability to be difficult to tackle. That is something that is unique because you can have a quarterback that has enough mobility to run. You can have a quarterback that can be fast and put the defense in binds, but he's still gonna protect himself and get down at the first side of an oncoming tackler. And then you have a guy like Bearware, when the ball is in his hands, he runs like a running back. He is difficult to tackle. Leg tackles, you see him with that little springy bounce that he does that he picks his feet up. That reminds me of Arteen trying to tackle him in high school. He has a great feel for space around him and tacklers going low and he picks his feet up. And they miss tackles because of it. And I think that that's a huge thing

20:26that Bear brings to the table. It's like I was thinking about how I described it. I called it that little skip to my Lou type of job. It's like a, did you play like Ninja Gaiden growing up on Nintendo? Remember that Ninja Gaiden game? I mean, I remember, but wow, you're going way back in time with that one. He jumps up, but his legs are kind of like staggered still and then he keeps on running. It's super unique is what I'm getting at. It's like he's jumping high either. It's just a little hop to him, which is very unique to him. John, in the daytime, obviously we love having you on the show, but you're training quarterbacks all day every day over at Train 3D QB. For those that are tuning in, for those parents out there that have quarterbacks on the rise, how can they get a whole of you? What is it? What are the programs you provide in season that they can tap into? You know, we actually just had some quarterbacks from Utah down the other day. They pop in for the weekend. Two of our coaches that do a lot of our youth

21:26and high school guys are always available on weekends for on-field training. A common thing, a player around this time says, man, I just don't feel like the ball is coming out of my hand. Quiet as clean as it was. I don't feel like I have quite the juice on my down-field throws. Or, hey, I'm coming back off of this ankle injury. Like, I rolled my ankle. I've been working through it. My ankle is starting to feel better, but I can tell that my mechanics slightly changed to make it through those first two or three games after the injury. I want to get back to feeling as good as I did at the beginning of August. All right, guys can come in and they can put that work in. And they find a way to get back to what feels like their best, especially as they get closer to playoffs. I think Utah, I think they're in like week eight, if my memory's correct. I think they've played seven. They're going in the week eight. You know, with playoffs right around the corner, our lot of guys are looking for ways to, how can I get a competitive advantage getting back

22:28into the season or getting back close to playoffs? Love that. Last thing, Koi Doneman, if you've been able to get, eyes on nephew Rex's boy by chance. There's two quarterbacks that they're recruiting, I think for the 2009 class Jake Mats and phenomenal and then Koi Doneman at a pine, pine view in St. George. I know both those guys and their dads, both of them were at the BYU elite camp. Of course, I know the Dolmens, all those guys, we all played together at BYU at the same time. I bumped into Sam. His uncle was taken into a bunch of different camps. And so it seems like things are going really, really good for him. I try every week Dennis Pitt and I, after our games, we sit down, we look at the California scores, the Utah scores, the Arizona scores. I love to follow some of the quarterbacks that we've trained or that we're aware of. And I really like Coach Hosner down there in St. George. She's been a guy that's done a fantastic job with his quarterbacks and his program down there. And Koi, sounds like he's just tearing it up.

23:29It seems like every time I peek at their scores, they're dominating and he's throwing a handful of touchdowns. And so it's really cool for the Dolman family. You know, that's a big football and sports family and to have Rex's son having that type of success is awesome. Love it, John. We appreciate it. Thanks for up and on today. We'll catch you up again soon. Yep, you guys are welcome. All right, that's our show we're sticking to. It download the podcast site to and speak our Google Play music. I heard radio Spotify gives a rating, gives reviews, support all of our sponsors. Can't do our show without our sponsors. From all of us here, it has been the fan and Kuger Sports. We show a good night and a safe night. You've been tuning in to Kuger Sports on one of three nine 90. Point three.