The Lost Episode of Why X Lost from RHAPCon

0:00This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace. And there it was. The bike you've been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer find more on Facebook. Clash it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new faith footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits. Handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Crocs store today. Propel Fitness Water

1:00With Gatorade Electrolites, Zero Sugar, and Vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water. To help you get the most out of your workout. And get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolites. I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine. 15 or more headache days a month. Each lasting four hours or more. Botox on a botchaline mtoxin A prevents headaches and adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alerture doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lugeric's disease, myasthenia Gravis or Lambert Eaton Syndrome, and medications, including botchaline mtoxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects.

2:06Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxCronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44 Botox to learn more. Visible puts unlimited 5G data in hot spot in the palm of your hand. Powered by Verizon's 5G network, with no contract holding you back, and for a limited time, you can get visible for just $19 a month for 12 months when you use promo code Save6. All the features of Big Wireless Service for half the cost. Tap the banner to switch today. Terms apply, standard rate applies at month 13, see visible.com for plan features and network management details. This is why blank loss. This is why blank loss. Baby, this is why blank loss. Welcome to a very special, timey, whimy episode of Why Blank Lost.

3:06I'm David Bloomberg, and we are stealing the time travel table from the Big Brother 28 house to go back a few years to Big Brother 25. To bring you the podcast that would have happened if Matt had not used his power of invincibility on Jag. And the companion to my doctor who in this trip to an alternate universe is Mike Bloom. This is the deepest of deep holes, David. I had to do a deep dive into the handful and family style. You had me trolling through what I think is actually a very under-reportedly good part of a Big Brother season, which is the first half of Big Brother 25. So there are worse things I could talk about. But I feel like the setting that we're in right now, our own little dining room time table machine, feels like we're in a news desk right now, especially because you, not to disd- you started by legitimately like, welcome. Like it felt like we were kicking off the six o'clock news.

4:07Yeah, yeah. This is we are at Rehapcon in Milwaukee. We have a small audience here with us to everybody. Yeah. Small but mighty. I love it. Small but mighty. And I believe this is your second appearance on Why Blank Lost. The last time I was on, I was realizing this, thinking about it in preparation for this was a decade ago. Yes. It was the boot of Lucy Wang in Survivor Millennials versus Gen X. And when we talk about someone getting saved in week four, your future co-host, Jessica Lewis was saved by an idol play for the end of the run. Yes, I had forgotten about that. So now let's become relevant. Now this is an absolutely relevant podcast. That's right. Yeah, it was Rob, at the time for people who may not have watched way back then, Rob hosted it with me. I say with me, Rob was more the host and would ask like, how did they do in role one? How did they do in role two? And back then, but Rob was unable to do it for some reason or another. And you stepped right in. So, yeah, this one is of course a little different since we're dealing with something that happened three years ago.

5:12But if there is one thing people should know about you. And I know you said you were researching and trolling and all that. I was trolling. Yeah. One thing is your troll. Second thing is you have an incredible memory. Thank you. Thank you. In this very respective field, I can't necessarily remember things like, love ones birthdays or to take out the trash. But like I can tell you the fourth food from survivor plow if you really need to. So I'm very happy that I found this particular niche. And yeah, we get to go back all the way to what? Because this released around August because the writer strikes is probably around what September. I'm approaching the three year anniversary. Yeah. And already? Yeah, it's right around the three year anniversary, almost exactly here. But yeah, you have a memory. I have notes. There we have. And that's where really this podcast started from because I have talked before about how I had written up almost everything for a Y Jag lost podcast before the show.

6:14Because we were so sure that he was going to go and there was no way Matt would use his power. And yeah. So. Okay, we said the stage a little bit here because again, there might be some uninitiated or those who may not remember. So in week four of Big Brother 25, I think this was there. They went through a bunch of different universes really predicting the multiverse saga that is now quickly flamed out in pop culture. They were in the superhero universe that week and four people were selected by America to compete in a challenge for the power of invincibility. I think it might have been. Yes, it was the comic verse. Yes, the comic. The appropriate. I apologize for that. So it was three, of course. It was Corey Wernberger drafting off that survivor Goodwill. It was Jag. I forgot about that. I forgot about that. Jag could have theoretically gotten this power and it was Matt Klotz, who would obviously play a very large role in Jag's success in the game. And so Matt's power that he won was that he was able to save was it one of the next two or three evictions?

7:14Two, including that one that was happening then. Yes. So it was either right then or the next one after they had been evicted. It didn't prevent them from being evicted. They still get voted out. But then they wouldn't actually leave. So for all intents and purposes though, with the power not in play, Jag and Blue were sitting on the block. Jag was voted out. You know, it's me, stop. You've heard that before. You know, it's a vote on Big Brother 25. But then went, went, went, went, message from the comic verse. The power was used and Jag was still in the game. Technically didn't walk out the front through the front door to technically voted out. But for all intents and purposes, still in the game. And he would still be in the game for many, many more days. Yes. And so in this case, and I'll have a little bit more to say about how we got to this point. But yeah, Lister's encouraged me to bring this back when I've mentioned it before. And I thought, perhaps, on perfect opportunity. Here we go. Now, this one is obviously a special case. But we will still treat his alternate universe loss, the same as we would for anyone else.

8:18Looking at how he played compared to a set of guiding rules, you've all heard this. I originally wrote back in 2004 and have modified ever since. Anyone who does not know that and is watching this podcast, welcome. I don't know why you picked this one to join in on, but welcome. We will analyze him using what we saw at the time on TV, live feeds and other information. And of course, if you want the most up-to-date rules, you can go to robhiswebsite.com slash Big Brother Rules. It's a really interesting sliding doors moment for multiple reasons across multiple shows. Because obviously, Jag will go on spoilers to win Big Brother 25. But then him and his brother, Jazz, will also get the call to appear on the Amazing Race 38, which they also won. And I don't know if necessarily if Jag would have still gotten the call for that amazing race season. But in a different universe, David, that maybe we're living in right now for the sake of this podcast, this man is not even a one-time or two-time winner of reality TV. Right. I was thinking about that. I was talking to someone about that yesterday, like how it changes so much, not just, you know,

9:22Matt's one move here, changes like a whole other show without a whole other show. Yeah. Very, very true. We don't have a comprecher that gets broken as well. The way Jag does. Yeah. So, so getting back to more of like how this all came to be, just as a reminder, nowadays, of course, we know the Big Brother blockbuster makes it impossible to know who is going until the night of because they've got three. You never know who's going to win it. And this was the last season before the blockbuster came into fruition. And so now I can't prepare all my notes ahead of time. But back then, sometimes me and my co-host at the time, Ovi Kabir, would do that because we have a quick turnaround. Normally, the eviction is Thursday. We record on Friday when we can. And so if we can get the notes down ahead of time, hey, that is great. But in this case, it was so clear that Jag was going. There was no universe that could happen where he was not going.

10:22And what we saw in the life feeds indicated that Matt was not going to use it. They hid from us. Production actively hid from us that Sri and Matt have decided they were going to use it. And of course, we didn't know that at the time. So I pre-wrote almost a whole podcast. And then I was like, well, that's okay. Because certainly, as poorly as Jag was playing, it'll be used next week or the week after. And then Jag just kept staying around week after week. And so it, yeah, it just, it never got used. And then of course, once you won, a lot of it wasn't relevant anymore. So there was really no point in discussing it at that point. And it's just been sitting on my computer ever since. I mean, you say it's not relevant anymore, but I do feel like in the Big Brother discourse, there is a lot of commentary about the fact that Chris Underwood style,

11:22almost this is a guy who had formerly been evicted, was saved by a power. Does that impact in your opinion the way you view Jag even as an overall player? We're talking specifically about the first month of his Big Brother career. But does that give you any sort of lens over the way you view him as a player of the game? I mean, yeah, I never viewed him as a genius. You know, he was very calm based. We know that. So I mean, I've met him, you know, and he seems like he's nice guy. A friendly nice guy. But, you know, nice people don't always do well at Big Brother, as, you know, we may have seen this week on Big Brother. So, yeah, it's, I think that I think it not only gives me pause about him, but, and I may have been planning to talk about this later, but it gives me thoughts about other people who are voted out early, both on Survivor and Big Brother. You could have people who, if one thing had changed for them,

12:24if one thing had been different, they could have gone on to win. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing I am. It talks about a little bit in the Pooja and Leon Allowance that was recorded during this week as well as, yeah, that's the, the simultaneously heartening, disheartening thing about talking with reality TV contestants is that people, for the most part, are expressly cast on these shows with the intention to win. And so when you talk with them and they're not necessarily digested with the lens of an editor, even a live feed, you realize like, oh, yeah, you have a personality in a certain set of skills most of the time to, in a different world had some different decisions occurred. You could have been the winner. You could have been a multi-time champion as well. And so this is a great example, right? And we're talking about this as well. You know, I'm sure if and when this conversation comes up about someone like D, who got saved by power on Big Brother 28, this will be another thing. You read enough my notes. I'll listen. Well, let's, let's get into it, shall we?

13:28Yeah, yeah. So sitting here in 2026, we know what happened with Jag in Big Brother 25. But in late August of 2023, as we watched the live feeds in the show, things looked bleak for him. Based on the information we had, most of us were so sure that Jag was headed out the door. But then he didn't. Matt saved him and it became a brand new game. The podcast notes, as I mentioned, that I wrote up at the time, have been sitting on my computer since then. But a Big Brother season focused time time travel was the perfect opportunity to go back and take a look at the alternate universe. In R.H.A.P., we know Big Brother and we know why Jag would have lost. I love that wood. Yes. All right. Well, the first and most important rule is, of course, the Scheme Implot. And I truly believe Jag knew how important this is. But knowing and doing two very different things and Jag exemplified that perfectly at the time. He came in, he made a final two deal right off the bat with Riley.

14:28Then he saw Riley was making deals with lots of other people, so he connected with Blue as well. Eventually making a final two with her. And of course, he was a member of the handful or family style or whatever else was going on with that. Yeah. And to clarify, I believe the handful was the three that you would mentioned, Jag, Riley, Blue. And then I think it was Cameron and Matt, I want to say. And then family style, they added three more to the hand, which was Corey, America, and Jared. Which for various reasons is hilarious and retrospective. Yes, yes. So he tried to create, as you described, like an onion alliance. Yeah. Which makes sense because Riley was the first H.O.H. And that's again, while it isn't necessarily shown nowadays on Big Brother, that's what you should actually do in that situation. You mean you're not supposed to throw it and let other people have power the whole game? Or you're not supposed to win power and then make a bunch of promises, then go back on them or walk down the stairs one morning and call somebody out in a very public gesture. I love it. Change the game. But we're maybe viewing back towards it with what D was able to do.

15:29Yes. Now, this would all indicate he was ready to play strategically on paper. But as Robert Burns said, the best laid plans of Mison Men often go awry. He had plans, but then reality intervened. As he said, the alliances I've been a part of have just sort of imploded. So that leads me to another quote, as Albert Einstein said. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Jag learned that the hard way. Yeah. I mean, Riley had a swift downfall. The first month of Big Brother 25 is sort of punctuated by these swift downfalls, where towards the end of the first week, actually we had seen a rather divided house, where again, I mentioned family style and there were 16 players left at the time, would be 15 shortly. And then basically everyone else in the house was in an alliance called the professors. And so it really was going to be a showdown between these two groups. And so when Heism, who was in the professors, one HOH, he went after Riley.

16:30And I think that's one big thing we're going to talk about is that as much as Jag was in a safe place, the first week of the game, he was not in a safe place, they all there three weeks of the game. Right. Yeah, he was getting knocked around those weeks there. Oh yeah. And he thought he had found his home in the Seven Deadly Sins Alliance. That's got it for God of Hell. Yes. And if Cameron and one HOH that might have been good for at least a week or two, but blue was in that alliance too. And even if it had been real or for real for real, which wasn't real anymore, then anyway, I've gotten my, my reals have confused me here. Seven Deadly Sins Remind me. So this was the core three of the Big Brother Prejury, which was three Felicia and Izzy, along with Matt, Jag and Blue. And there was one other person. And I obviously given the number that I forget about, but. Yeah, I'm forgetting who the other person was. It might have been Jared. They might have had Jared in there. I have to forget.

17:30Probably. He was in everything with them, I think. Yeah. So. But yeah, Jag seemed to think that this alliance would save him instead of blue. And for a little while, it looked like they might. But that wasn't because of anything he did. He felt that Cameron's mind was made up. So like when Cameron won HOH, he didn't even try to avoid getting nominated. He didn't give any reasons he should stay. He couldn't have told Cameron about, oh, look at these multiple alliances that Syrian company are in. But. I mean, because he knew about the legend 25 alliance that cam and red were in, which was a fake alliance that Syrian set up just to keep them in line. But he didn't use that information to try to protect himself. He even acknowledged that he didn't fight for himself when cam called him into the HOH room. So this was three years ago. Certainly there's no way that would ever happen today where someone just doesn't fight to try to avoid nomination or stop one of their close allies from getting nominated.

18:37That would never happen today. Especially someone who watched season 25 so closely. Yeah. They certainly would never, because yeah, this should also be a little bit of a reminder as well. So again, I mentioned that Cameron was in this this handful short-lived alliance. Cameron was one of the first to turn on the alliance as far back as week one. Cameron was already reporting the doings, even though he didn't know that Jared was actually also reporting the doings because he's a Syrian son. And so Cameron had eyes on Jay. Collast it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new faith footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. But, style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Crocs store today. This episode is brought to you by Facebook.

19:37So you were scrolling on Marketplace. And there it was. The bike you've been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty. It was funny and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer find more on Facebook. Propel Fitness Water With Gatorade Electrolites, Zero Sugar, and vitamins, Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolites. Chronic Migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more, can make me feel like a spectator in my own life. Botox, on a butchalineum toxin A, prevents headaches and adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It's the number one prescribed branded chronic migraine preventive treatment.

20:37Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. A lurcher doctor right away is difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. A lurchic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS, Lugeric's disease, Myastthenia, Gravis, or Lambert Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit Botox Chronic Migraine.com or call 1-800-44 Botox to learn more. Visible puts unlimited 5G data in hot spot in the palm of your hand, powered by Verizon's 5G network, with no contract holding you back. And for a limited time, you can get visible for just $19 a month for 12 months when you use promo code Save6. All the features of Big Wireless Service for half the cost.

21:39Tap the banner to switch today. Terms apply, Standard Rate applies at month 13. See visible.com for planned features and network management details. And it should be mentioned that Jag was put up in week three as well by Felicia as a pawn. He won the veto, but he was a pawn in this big plan to backdoor heism, because everyone was turning on their allies at that point, only a few weeks in. And so, yeah, Cameron, when he won that pressure cooker, the return of the pressure cooker, he was ready to put Jag through a big pressure cooker as well, and not only put him on the block, but formally target him as well. Yes, yes. So then after the veto, things were looking a little iffy because red was pushing to vote out Izzy instead. Yes, because red had the veto. He wanted to veto someone off the block and put Izzy up. Right. But, Chad knew if he pushed red to veto himself off the block, Cameron would indeed likely nominate Izzy. And so then he talked to Izzy and Matt, and then promised, oh, well, I won't use your name when I'm talking to them.

22:41I don't want to get you in trouble, which admirable loyalty, put you undercut your own position. You can't just give away your game and say, well, you know, since those are nice people, I'll just, I won't mention them. And so he did talk to red, at least. He said he would never ask him to do anything that he doesn't want to do. And so I'm not going to ask you to use the veto on him. And I'm like, what? You're not going to ask him to use the veto on you? This is big brother. You don't want something to do, someone to do anything that they don't want to do. Just let them make up their own mind. It was frustrating at the time. It goes back to part of what we were talking about. Jack was not good. Jack was not a good player at this point. And he continued to read that I won't throw out promises, but if red can find a way that this can benefit your game to keep me. And again, I was like, yeah, yeah, you definitely don't want to make promises

23:43that you don't plan on keeping in big brother. No one, no one would ever do that. Check's infamously not bounced. Yeah, the ones with the big brother have. Right. And of course, don't tell them how you can help their game. Let them make up their own mind on that too. So it was, it was a stunning lack of gameplay. But, you know, like I said earlier, he told Sri Azean Matt, I will not say anything that will hurt this team. It's like, okay, go team as you go out the door. Yeah, I mean, he was loyal to the seven deadly sins. And to be fair to Jack, I mean, his initial alliance had basically collapsed at this point. This was a guy that was looking for a home. And so I think it does make sense that maybe he steers into the curve a little bit. Now listen, is it self-destructive? 150%. But I think if he felt so comfortable with this group and so loyal to them that he's like, I need to be protected. And I guess again, it was not his own doing. He does end up getting saved by said ally. Yeah, it ends up working to his favor.

24:43But it was, you know, kind of this thing where he would have been evicted. But it might not have been 10-0. They might have been a sprinkling of people. Well, that's not, people of 25, everybody in 10-0. Like, 15-0. Yeah. They had five more votes. Now, another aspect of this rule that you already mentioned is he couldn't seem to figure out how all the information kept getting to the other side. And it's like, just sit and think for a little while. How does this happen? Over and over again. He should have picked up. First on Cameron, then on Jared being a mole and not being with him. He, you know, and then he wasn't saved from nomination by Jared. Info kept leaking to the other side. But even when he eventually did figure out that it was Jared, he still didn't see what was right in front of him regarding Jared being super tight with Surrey, Izzy, and Felicia. And at one point, he actually complained to Izzy about Jared playing a sneaky game and leaking information.

25:43I mean, the true statement, but yeah, maybe not the right person to be saying it too. Yeah. So, yeah, he did realize that Surrey, Izzy and Felicia were aligned with everyone but America. And, but he just couldn't do anything about it. He wouldn't do anything about it. Melissa said on the Stock Watch roundtable that we... Oh, you are too. Okay. I was gonna say, you were either doing a deep dive or this is a reflective... These are my notes from the time we were going to say. Okay, go ahead. Oh, yeah. So Melissa said, Jack, he just could not connect with odds. Yeah. I mean, I think that I wouldn't even call this passivity. I guess it is a form of passivity in that it seems like there is all this information that's being presented to him. And he wasn't a vulnerable position and he chose to not weaponize this information. And I think this was so interesting about this exercise in general. I'm sure we'll loop back to the point. Like, then the jag after this becomes a man of activity. Not only from a physical activity perspective, but like he's then utilizing that power to make decisions,

26:46to be able to then become his own sort of arbiter of information. And so it's a thing where he's sort of learning the lesson the hard way here that even though these things are staring him in the face, I think there is such a mask right now of... But I feel, even though I'm sketched out by Jared, like I feel good about this seven, that I don't necessarily see the train that's coming for me on the track right now. Yeah. I mean, you know, to relate this to the eviction that we just had on Big Brother 28, if someone had a power that could have saved... Well, I was going to say spoiler alert, but by now I'm sure everybody has... Especially since this is going out at least a few days after we record it. You know, if Mallory had a power that could have saved her, would she have altered her behavior? Would she have started trying harder? Would she have started actually thinking ahead, putting things into action? Yeah. And I would like to think the answer is yes to that, but she didn't get this special bonus take like he did. Yeah, I mean, I think it could really go in two different directions.

27:48If you know, haha suckers, I'm guaranteed to survive until the next week, because then it's sort of like an H&H position or a veto position where it's like, okay, I'm in locked and safe, you know I'm going to be around next week. So let's work something out because I can still win power. You know, these other people they might be out the door. On the other hand, it might be something where you're like, I don't want to poke my head back out. You know, like I was the topic de jour, now I'm out. Like let me make sure that I can just, I'm good for the week, I can sit back, I'm safe. I could see the approach from a couple of different perspectives, but I think it depends on how you view your own position in the house. If you feel like you are desperate, like there was a reason why you were the target here, and it's more of a consensus thing, then yeah, absolutely shake shit up, make deals knowing that you're safe for the next few days. If you feel like this was one particular case as Jack did here, well, Cameron's not in my alliance, he was, but he's not anymore, so it makes sense why he targeted me, then maybe he felt like, oh, you know, I'll survive, and then like maybe Jared wins another H&H or Izzy wins an H&H,

28:51and I'm fine. It was just this particular week. Yeah, yeah. All right, well we could move on to the second rule, which says, not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming secret. And I mentioned in the first rule how Jack complained to Izzy about Jared. Well, he ended up accidentally getting Cory and America in trouble instead of Jared, which got back to Cory and turned him against Jack. So Cory had already been worried about Jack and conversations that America had had with him, and told Izzy he wanted Jack gone because he kept lying and telling other people about their conversations. With Cory and America planning to vote Jack out, it meant Jack needed the full support of the Seven Deadly Sins alliance, including Jared, who would have to vote out his showman's blue. That was not happening. No, definitely not. I'm trying to remember how palpable that showman's was. We didn't go full duvet behaviors at that point. I mean, in the episode leading up to this was when he told blue that his mother was on the show.

29:55Well, he had a relationship with someone on the show. Yes, okay. He tried to suggest Felicia, but then blue did a diary room saying he believed it was three. But then later as the season went on, she would revert away from the three. To the point where he has three like told blue on the way out that it was happening. I wouldn't say it was a complete surprise, but it wasn't a complete non-surprise at the same time. Right. Right. So they were at least in Jared's mind getting pretty close and pretty obvious. They, you know, at least, I think at least three obviously knew. Oh, and also yes, to answer this. This was the same week as the Great Condom Hunt. God, I remember where I was all the way back in 2023 for the Great Condom Hunt. Yeah, because I'm trying to do the math here. So there were 14 people left. I'm sure I see Luke, Kirsten, Riley, Heism. So there were 13 people left. So it was 10 people voting. So we would have had to have at least five and the HOH.

30:56He wasn't getting the HHP. He was Cameron's target. So he would need six, which was, as you mentioned, well, you could say the rest of the seven Deadly Sins, but blue was up on the block against him too. Right. I thought that if he got those five, he was okay. I don't know. Did Cameron should just target to blue by the end of the week? No, no, he did not. He never shifted his target. So at least Cerey believed if she had all of the seven Deadly Sins that it would work that way. So, but yes, for those who don't remember the Great Condom Hunt, is he went to, went to as a joke, throw some condoms in the room for Cory in America because they were, they were really just, they weren't doing anything. They were just on the hammock bed, but she saw them pull the covers over their heads when she walked in. So she thought, oh, this would be a funny prank, but nobody could find the condoms. And so Felicia looked for them everywhere and they started questioning Jared and Blue about them. So yes, there was knowledge of the two of them being together, definitely.

31:57I love that you're the one who brings this up by the way. I made no mention of this. This was a Bloomberg original. Well, it was your question about how close they were. I'm sure it was how close they were. Well, layer of latex between them. Yeah. So, so yeah, Cerey tried to get Jared to vote out Blue. And Jared was like, I'm going to play my own game. Yeah, I need to show that I'm a great player like her. And it's like, this is nothing to do with great play. This has to do with other types of play. Let's be honest here. Maybe the one after three play. Again, he's the one who said it. Not me. I mean, I do think that Blue does seem like a close ally of his from just a purely strategic perspective. And it is interesting because, you know, Jag later on will be one of the people to help flip the house against him as well.

33:01So, again, he sort of had the right idea, even if it wasn't necessarily for the most iconic reasons. Yeah. So, to add to these problems, Jag at one point told others he was planning to target red. And he hadn't worked with Cameron since week one, I think you had mentioned. So, it was pretty obvious where his allegiance was in the game. He wasn't going to be able to hide it. He was not keeping it secret by any means. No, I don't necessarily think so. And I mean, again, it was from his perspective. They're not in my alliance. Right also didn't use the veto on me despite me saying it's okay if you don't. So, he even making his target public. I don't think it necessarily hurt anything. But in more so, I think, exemplified the headspace he was in, which is like, I've got the seven deadly sins and I'm going after everyone who's not in there. Yeah. Okay, we can go to the third rule which talks about the need to be flexible. And I think it's pretty clear after covering one and two, he was not great at being flexible. That was a large part of the reason he couldn't adjust when things didn't go according to plan.

34:01As we mentioned at the beginning of rule one, and like you just said, he had his group, he was going for everybody outside of that group. But in a house where everyone was in multiple alliances, he was in that one. Yeah. That was it. And he was on the block against another member of that same alliance. He could have been, he should have been gathering other allies, but it wasn't happening. For example, America told Izzy that she liked Jag as a person and she tried to game with him, but he never gave her anything and he was still talking about Riley weeks after she was gone. Yeah, I mean, that was a seismic relationship for him. I don't think he was in Riley's promise. I'm pretty sure that was a three, there was a remat alliance, but it was definitely felt on his perspective. And again, I get it. He had this entire architectural plan. You know, it's like how you make these big dinner plans, then all of a sudden the restaurant's not available for the evening. Some people are able to pivot, go down to the Chinese restaurant down the street.

35:03Others are like, oh God, I was really feeling Italian. Like, can I make lasagna at home? And it's like, you can open up your culinary and strategic tastes a little bit, especially as you mentioned. In a house that at the time, yes, while I was saying there were these sort of divisions, he was going getting more and more sort of like slippery by the day, by the week. You were just talking and alluding to the fact that there was at this point, three Izzy and Felicia in the center point of three different alliances that pretty much cover nearly everyone in the house, which was a change from two weeks ago when I said there was a clear division eight and eight in the house. And so this was something that was consistently changing. And I think Jag at this point was more of a concept than a variable. Yes, yes. So we could go to the fourth row, which tells players not to let their emotions control them. I don't think Jag really had a problem here. At least not in the usual sense. I mean, what I would say going back to the Riley of it all might just be that if he felt sort of anchored in that.

36:03And again, this was something that he got really close with. I believe if you mentioned that final two that I think she might have been his number one ally for the first couple weeks of the game. And there might have been some still like emotional paying for that in losing her. But no, I would certainly not say that his emotions really even after he gets saved, ever dictate his game necessarily. Yeah, yeah. I mean, in the first rule, we did discuss how he wouldn't try to help himself at the expense of his alliance. I would classify that as a strategic error. It could be attributed to an emotional reason as well. But I think it was mostly strategic that was there. Yeah, I'm an imagined so. Again, he's a very kind man in generalist man, but I don't think he's necessarily speaking out of his charity ability to be like, I'm not going to say names. Yeah, yeah. All right, well, and we could quickly move on to the fifth rule, which says players need to pretend to be nice and play the social game. I think it's safe to say Jag was fine here numerous times other players would say things like I like Jag, but and then go on to discuss strategic or over scheming issues that we already covered.

37:06They weren't they were voting him out because they disliked him. They were voting him out in spite of liking him, I think. And I think that Shan and Gus says all the time, right? The social game is accruing the capital. The strategic game is expending and investing the capital. And I think Jag just despite this guy coming from a background where he does have so many great businesses, he was not able to invest properly. Where it seemed like everyone liked him, but I don't think he was necessarily brokering a lot. Like you talked about that America quote where he could have easily curtailed or, you know, her rail that's something with her. And she he chose not to do so to not build upon the surface level interactions that they were having. And that's always a tough thing to do, right? Like I imagine because I've never played any of these things, it must be tough to like get to know someone as a person and then find that inevitable point in the conversation where you're like, it's like you want to you want to do something with this? Like it's a it's a weird transition even though everyone knows that you're playing a game. It's still an awkward thing to manage, especially in the first month of the game. And I imagine from Jag, again, it's more passivity than it is, you know, necessarily misplaced.

38:09It's that idea of like he was more reliable to sit back, have these chats and feel good with a specific six people. Not necessarily thinking about, okay, I also, I like these others. Let me try to bring them into something. Yeah, yeah, that took me to a survivor, you know, do you want to play? Oh, in the sand? Yeah, exactly. You know, the perfect example there of, oh, yeah, you have to ask in a certain way in order to get them to get them to realize what you're talking about. Especially early on when you don't know how people should be approached. Everyone has different reactions to the same idea. And I think it takes a little while for you to figure out the right formula of tone, timbre, location, content, etc. To make sure it's a winning pitch. Yeah, yeah. All right, well, the six-fuel warns against being too much of a threat. Now, at the time, it did not maybe seem like he was really a threat given everything else we discussed about him in his position in the game. But people did feel that way about him.

39:09When Cameron won HOH, he said he used to be in the handful with Jag and Blue, and now they are, quote, two very dangerous loose ends. It makes it sound like they're going to turn him in for murder or something. I mean, yeah, Cameron definitely had a lot of that mercenary language even at this point. Because it should be mentioned that Jag did win the previous Vita, which I'm trying to remember. I know he was in the chicken suit. I think it was like a race back and forth type of thing if I'm a primary clerk. Yeah, he was in the chicken suit. Till, yeah, till just before this. And it is. This was shockingly a competition that Jag lost. And it was the pressure cooker. This was the return of the competition. And Cameron proved to be a force so much so that Matt and Jag knew they had needed to nip him in the buttons to do rather than later. And that he lasted, what, like 11, almost 12 hours. I think Jag lasted like two. I believe Jag dozed off basically. Yeah, Jag and Blue. It fell asleep standing up in the chicken suit. I'm pretty sure he was like third or fourth out in this. Surprisingly, so given again, he's going to go on and break a frickin' brother record. Right, right. Yeah, Cameron also said he was always a threat.

40:11He further told the legend 25 Alliance that Jag was public enemy number one. And yeah, he had won that previous Vito. And, you know, when several members of the Seven Deadly Sins discussed whether or not to try to keep him, a major point was he can fight for us in comps. Yeah. And it also should be mentioned at this point. This is week four. The competition winner so far were Riley, who's gone, Heism, who is gone, Felicia who's still in the house, and now Cameron and Red. So there really was like a small pool of people who had actually won competitions prior that would be these types of targets. Right, yes. And, you know, now we, we, at least I do. I mock people when they say, oh, this person, they're a, they're a comp beast. And it's like they won one competition so far. What do you mean they're a comp beast? But, you know, it's been going on for a long, you win one, and you look like you could have done well another, they're a comp beast. And, you know, lots of people in the house were saying it.

41:11Jared said people were scared of Jag. Corey called him a threat. Red said Jag is a big competitor. Jag himself told us it's clear that Red and Cam see me as a threat in this game. And this was especially true for everyone when they were comparing him to the other nominee who was blue. And she was not a comp. Come on. They wouldn't vote out such a big threat of this game, right? I'm broodering the quote right now because Julie Chen Moomves was a bob and just a face crack look to her. Yeah. So, so I think it's safe to say people definitely thought of him as a threat. Perhaps before we the audience really sought we didn't we didn't realize what they were going to see. There's a very limited resume, but I think they were able to see their own problem ahead of them that would become unfortunately more or less preventable as the season went along. Yes. So the seventh rule says to trust almost nobody. And here we have at least a triple whammy. He trusted Cameron early on and was even telling Riley how good he felt about Cameron.

42:15But then Cameron spilling the beans to the other side was at that time what screwed them. At the same time, as you mentioned earlier, Jared spilling every bean. Even after Cameron was outed, Jared continued to play the double agent and was hidden enough that a couple times, and Jack even talked to him about the information being leaked to the other side. He really didn't learn from the Cameron situation or from the ongoing direct line to Cerey for everything they discussed. And even worse, when most of seven deadly sins wanted to save Jack, Jared rebelled because he didn't want to lose his show man's blue like we said. And he got all pissy about it. I was the man that Jack trusted, but nope, nope, not going to save him. I understand him not wanting to lose her, but like I said earlier, him trying to pretend it was for strategic reasons was rather funny. Should Jack have show man's Jared? Is that a solution? I think he was already taken at that point.

43:16I mean, I don't know. She could have given it a try. He could have. He could have. It was worth a try. Yeah. Well, and then finally he misread Izzy completely in that situation we covered in the second rule regarding him, ratting out Jared. As we said, it ended up bouncing back on Corey to the point that he should have been able to see that Izzy was not going to turn on Jared so easily so that once, you know, it's just all of this was wrapped up and he kept trusting people who were all feeding information to each other. It got even funnier later on. Well, kind of in the, I think it was right after. No, it was leading up to the power leading up to we didn't see it till the episode after. Yes. But leading up to the power when Sri told Jag, he was going to be okay. And said, don't tell anyone about this. And then I'm just trying to get it all right.

44:16I can't remember if Matt told him to, but then Sri told Jared that Jag would be okay, but don't tell anyone. And then Jared decided he was going to again try to play his own game and go in and tell Jag don't tell anyone, but you're going to be okay. And Jag's like, but I thought Matt, he only told Sri. So then he went back to Sri and said, what's going on with Jared? How does he know? And then Sri went back to Jared and then Jared went back to Jag and was like, did you tell someone what I told you? And he asked him like multiple, multiple times until Jag finally admitted it. It's just this whole ridiculous, nodded, twisted thing. And it's like, if anyone of you could have held your tongue. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace. And there it was. The bike you've been searching for.

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47:22Visible puts unlimited 5G data in hot spot in the palm of your hand, powered by Verizon's 5G network, with no contract holding you back. And for a limited time, you can get visible for just $19 a month for 12 months when you use promo code SAVE-6. All the features of Big Wireless Service, for half the cost. Tap the banner to switch today. Terms apply, standard rate applies at month 13. See visible.com for planned features and network management details. Yeah, what's also interesting is that again, Jag will certainly gain a lot of good moves in gameplay over the course of the season. It's not an immediate switch after he's saved because I was just thinking about this. And it's something that Terran has brought up well as well in light of recent events where I forgot who won HOH the next week. But Jag offers to go up on the block after just coming back. And there was a world where had they not decided to break up the whole Cameron and Red thing, Jag could have gone right out the door one week after his execution was saved off.

48:25Well, and that's one reason I was like, okay, well, you know, I've got these notes. I'll just add to them for the next week. And then, you know, it just never came about. But with that, it is actually about time to wrap things up. So I don't know, do you have any additional thoughts before we do or what are your final thoughts about Jag here? Well, first off, I'll correct my record here. So it was Jared who won the next week. Because I was remembering this is the period when it was Cameron, Jared, Cameron, Jared when we were living in that sort of nether region type of... I'm studying this is so interesting, David, not just in a method of, you know, being able to act upon something that's been three years in the making. But again, as you mentioned before, I think it speaks to this idea that almost never exists in any of these social strategy games, which is as much as I, in general, don't like the non-aliminations or like second chance type of things. I generally like the when you're out, your out mentality. I think there is something interesting about having a near death experience in one of these games.

49:31And then trying to subsequently figure out what did I do wrong? Let me do my own YX lost podcast. And how can I improve upon that? And again, not to say that Jag immediately took the lessons that he learned and said, great, but I do feel like he got a little more locked in. I think especially him and Matt began to become a little bit more of the middlemen before they became the minute men. And then before we knew it, a few weeks later, when the house flips entirely and this trio at the center of it is now on the ropes, Jag and Matt were pivotly apart of that. And it also connects back to, you know, Jared being caught with his pants down in more ways than one, right? And then the infamous debate that him and Corey got into in the bedroom where Jared is various daliens are all exposed. I wonder if that connects back to again, Jag's mistrustment, not even a word in this guy. I also realized this is the video competition that Red Winds where they had to spell out the word golden. And Jared spelled dongle, I think. So it's so interesting to look at, yes, everything leading up to this was a little cataclysmic.

50:37And then the combination of some bad stuff that was done to him in the first couple of weeks and him not necessarily doing good stuff subsequently in the other couple of weeks. But then to also look at, all right, you made all these blunders and you were saved by the grace of your closest ally who was able to navigate a ball to the end of the course. What are you going to do with that? And this is a really interesting story because I feel like, again, I think about him. I think about Chris Underwood. And many other people who were directly saved from elimination by something and then went on to win the game. Almost everyone falls short once again. And Jag was able to prove through a variety of different reasons that the second chance was the one that needed to be taken. Yeah, yeah. Of course, Chris Underwood got a much different Y Chris one because we were so angry at the fact that the fact that he was even in the name is not on trial day. Oh, it was. It was and they were found guilty. Was Bowie Jane the judge? Yeah. All right. She might have been the defense lawyer. I'm not sure.

51:38That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Jag was voted out unanimously. Once it was clear that Cerey wouldn't get Jared to flip. That was the end of it. Of course, we know now that after the vote, there was a message from the comic verse. Red, reddit to everyone. Reddit was on reddit? Yeah. The BV power of invincibility has been activated. That means the house guest you just voted out is now invincible and cannot be evicted. Little did everyone know that didn't only mean on that night. It literally meant he could not be evicted ever. Yeah. So OP, right? Then it got him like an additional 10 weeks in the game. I don't know what they were thinking about that. Yeah. It was it was. Yeah. It was it was a bit much wasn't it? Now, Jack did learn some things about playing Big Brother after this point eventually. It took him some time. And of course he had the luxury because he became the companies that people worried he would be. As I said in the eventual Y Jag one podcast, most of what we discussed here became irrelevant when it came to why he won because he turned much of it around and he fixed it.

52:44But he was lucky to have that luxury one that most people don't get we talked about that. Maybe other players who went out early could have come back to win in various games if they had gotten a similar chance because when Jag would have been evicted he was not playing particularly well at all. But we've been talking about everything that happened prior to that point because heading into that live eviction the information we had as I said was strongly telling us Matt would not use the power on Jag and until a few hours before the vote. Jag had no idea that he should have been fighting for his life in the game by doing everything he could to stay. But he wouldn't do it. He refused to say a bad word about anyone else. He didn't want to push another player and Big Brother to do something that in his own best interest. He wouldn't reveal the multiple alliances that people like Syrian Felicia and Izzy were in. It's possible again as we mentioned that refusal ended up saving him.

53:46But he had no way of knowing that and he was getting voted out whether or not there happened to be a power given to just the right person at just the right time. Jag came into the game with a plan but as the famous philosopher Mike Tyson said everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. Riley getting quickly targeted and evicted was that punch and Jag just was not ready for it. It really kept him spinning for far longer than it should have. He ended up with one alliance and an HOH and veto winner who were working together outside that alliance with several members overlapping and they saw him as a threat moving forward. Ensuring his demise by putting him up against his friend and ally blue which also had the effect of ensuring Jared would vote against Jag no matter what his overall thoughts were or what his mother wanted. The scene is a threat by many people in the game. They had no idea how right they were and that is why Jag would have lost.

54:49There we go. Good job. Finally take that off the bucket list. That's right. That's right. The clucket list with that chicken outfit. How do you feel David? You feel you got that monkey off your back? Yes. Yes. It's you know, I don't have to worry now. It's it's been used. It's it would it did not go to waste. Exactly. Exactly. Much like that power. Fantastic job. Well, thank you. And thank you. Yes. I do want to thank Scott and Jess and everyone behind the scenes at RHAP. Further thanks to Rob and Sam and Brandon and Derek and Michaela and everyone else who helped set up or have con or you know helping us record this here. Indeed, thanks to everyone who wrote in to encourage me to record this podcast as I mentioned it in the past. And of course, a special thanks to you Mike for joining me in this trip to an alternate universe. Can I wait until 2036 when someone else gets saved by a power we can go back and talk about this is this is a great idea David. I mean, we've been doing so much great stuff at RHAP con. But this is a great opportunity to sit down.

55:51Of course, we celebrated the 1000th episode of Big Brothers through a lot of pontificating a lot of flashbacks over the past couple of days and this is an interesting flashback to have. So thank you so much for having me on and having me into this wonderful news desk late in room. Yes. Yes. And thank you to our audience here as we said. Yes. Oh yeah, the roar of thousands. That's right. All right. And of course, you know, we're not entirely sure when this will go out because we're not just doing one wide blank loss. We may be doing a couple of big brother wide blank loss due to the 1000th plus episode twist. So we will episode one thousand and one yeah twist. So we will see what happens but whenever it goes out you can always find us on RHAP and the we know Big Brother. Feed so look for us there and then survivor season is starting to so that'll be we know survivor and there we go. We will see you when we get back to the present.

56:54From this trip to three years ago. Thanks again. Bye. This is why blank loss. This is why blank loss. Baby, this is why blank loss. Labor Day savings are happening now at the Home Depot with select appliances starting at $399 plus save up to an extra thousand dollars and get free delivery on appliance purchases of $998 or more. Get a whirlpool laundry tower featuring industry first UV clean technology designed to reduce bacteria in the wash without fading fabrics plus with great prices at the Home Depot. You can save on select appliances designed to make laundry day easier shop Labor Day savings at the Home Depot today. Offer valid august 27th through September 16th. We'll only see store online for details. Get business done with the new American Express graphite business cash unlimited card with unlimited 2% cashback on all eligible purchases.

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