JP Miller Had an Answer Ready Every Time Mica Called Police

0:00For a limited time, you can get a Big Mac meal for just $8. That's a burger, fries, and a drink. They don't call it an extra-value meal for nothing. Get a Big Mac meal only at McDonald's. Pricing participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. Imagine standing beside a glacier, swimming with turtles in the Galapagos Islands, or being invited to dinner in a remote village that few travelers ever see. Adventure life specializes in custom journeys and small chakrises that bring you closer to nature, local cultures, and unforgettable experiences around the world. Work one-on-one with a trip planner who uses firsthand travel experience to tailor-make your trip around your interests, travel style, and budget. Visit adventurelife.com today to begin your next adventure. Your sausage m muffin with egg didn't change. You received it. The sausage m m m m m with egg extra-value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. You can't afford to eat it. You can't afford to eat it.

1:01Get a Big Mac meal only at McDonald's for a limited time. Pricing participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. Imagine standing beside a glacier, swimming with turtles in the Galapagos Islands, or being invited to dinner in a remote village that few travelers ever see. Adventure life specializes in custom journeys and small chakrises and can be a great place for traveling. You can't afford to eat it. It's a special place for travelers who use firsthand travel experience to tailor-make your trip around your interests, travel style, and budget. Visit adventurelife.com today to begin your next adventure. This is Hidden Tillers Live with Tony Brusky and Robin Dray. According to GPS trackers on her car and stolen belongings, 14 times. Meanwhile, J.P. filed a mental health pickup order telling police she was bipolar and offer medications. J.P. really proactively told police that Micah was bipolar, schizophrenic, and having an episode

2:07to explain away her cries for help. Now, it's not to say that there could have been actual mental health problems going on there. That could have existed. But when you look at the environment, she was en-jiya, I wonder what was exacerbating that. How common is it for a narcissist or a sociopath? Abusers like this too intentionally terrorize a victim in private. Only to use that trauma, that trauma response when they're out there. Hey, everybody, this isn't right or they're reacting. To label them as crazy or unstable to authorities or friends or family or anybody looking in to make sure that nobody truly sees what's going on. And disturbingly, how successful are they typically in telling that tale? I think there's a lot of this. It's probably under-reported. But this, you know, it would be, I was watching this, of course, thinking,

3:07boy, I'd love to look at all her medical records and what they documented in the hospital. And, you know, because you wonder, bipolar disorder is a pretty serious diagnosis. And one of the videos that apparently he had recorded, she did sound psychotic in what she was saying. But can trauma drive a person into a state like this when it's ongoing trauma they feel trapped? I think there's evidence that that can happen and it may look psychotic, it may look like bipolar disorder. But it can certainly be, you know, severe anxiety, depression, feeling trapped, hyper-vigilance, and, you know, for her to not submit to him, meant that she was refusing to follow God or to love God. And so that's quite a double-bind to be in and could that exacerbate maybe somebody who had existing vulnerabilities? And I think she had vulnerabilities.

4:09And so there could have been, you know, an underlying mood disorder bipolar condition and the stress of this marriage triggered it and made it manifest. Shivon, could it also because what's another interesting facet of this, not just her medical history, mental health history, which again we've been covering so much of and learning so much about because of Lindsey Clancy tragically. But he was really telling her so much because like part of what I picked up also was every time he's having an interaction with someone including the congregation, he's always focused on his actions. It's like a bad 911 call when the perpetrator calls it in. He can always tell because they're not worried about the victim, they're worried about what their role was and what they were doing so they're creating their own alibi. He did that a lot throughout this. But part of that narrative, he kept preaching everyone else. He was also preaching to her so how can that also affect her own mental health? If he's telling her she's bipolar and she's adjustable and he's the pastor, so I have to listen to him.

5:12I mean, he's telling her what she has to submit to sexually. Because it's five times a day, this was the creepiest shit I've ever heard. It's not the same, yeah. And so could that also play into her, I mean can someone basically become bipolar or at least exasperated if someone continually tells you you are because he was doing that as well? I would call it more a chronic CTSD response. And that is where we've been talking a lot about mental hospitals and how good of a job do these programs do. I think if she was in a really good program where they spent enough time assessing her and really got into what is your lifestyle like and what are these symptoms like and how is this all correlated that that could have been picked up? That you know what, there's really more of a trauma response going on here than bipolar. But it's really hard to know and it's hard to know what the quality of care that she got was unfortunately.

6:13It'd be really interesting to see when he goes a trial because again I know he's not being charged with the death or anything. But I'll be interesting to see what kind of searches they do on his computers and Google searches and things like that. It'd be really interesting because of all these things that it looks like he was doing intentionally. Did he research him? Was he thinking about them? I mean I would be very curious on all these different aspects because he seemed to be doing things pretty intuitively that would take that normal human beings wouldn't think of or even think of how to doing yet. He seemed to be pretty fluid with it. Yeah, somebody mentioned gas lighting off the chart off the chart gas lighting here. Another good definition. There's a person who's doing this level of gas lighting in bullshit. Does he actually, did he want her back truly or did he want to destroy her? What was the ultimate goal at the end of the day exactly what happened? I'm going to make life so hellish for her with the GPS trackers on the car posting the the new photos of her online tracking her in real time telling everybody she's got this and that.

7:14And oh my gosh, it's just such a sad horrible story is the ultimate goal. I'm going to drive her so mad she's going to go to the woods and do this or is it I'm going to get to her so much that she's only going to turn back to me because I provide such a lovely home to live with and such a great partnership that she clearly will come back. I mean, is it a little above I mean, do they even know did you think he even knows what the hell the goal is at the end of the day. I've been he's just flailing in his histrionic way of look at me and here's what I want me me me me me me but never really quite understanding where the next you know lily paddy's jumping to is. Yeah, I think it can go both ways good good good question. There's obviously a need for power and control and entitlement he wanted to own her I mean she had his name tattooed on her body early on. Yeah, she belonged to him in her wedding vows she said something like I wrote it down 100% of what I am I give to you.

8:22And then in his his sermons were a wife must respect and honor and so I think he liked you know, apparently for quite some time he succeeded in feeling like he owned her and I think he kind of got a high from that. And so he I'm just guessing but I think he had a strong attachment to her and wanted her back but if he couldn't make it work as it was not working near the end then I think it really was about I'm just going to go after her and try to do what I can to destroy. Yeah, I wrote down their wedding vow when they said it she said she will give 100% to him in all areas even to make his dreams come true his response. I won't try to best that. So so Shavon say he's unchecked and this continues he continues he's on he's an art he's on an arc he's got a life arc on this where does it go if he's unchecked.

9:26Well I'll I can reason I'm asking is this guy like this then eventually say you know what this whole one wife thing just really is ensued me I need more I mean is does someone like this escalated to trying to get into FLDS or something like that because I mean in other words would he ever be satiated in any way. I think you know we see a pattern right in future behavior we can guess is based on past behavior he really wants to be a preacher he loves being in front of people apparently even after what is it solid rock then it yeah solid rock. Yeah sort of went defonct he started a new one again and he's got another wife and I but we know he's so sexually compulsive he's not going to be fake. So he's not going to be faithful to her and this weird behavior is going to keep coming out so my guess is he's just going to keep repeating repeating repeating repeating he likes having a woman under his thumb and yeah that's my best guess.

10:29This is pure conjecture but but the the new wife Susie I believe Susie Skinner anything take I mean take Micah out of the equation to a certain extent I mean just just observing John Paul's behavior in general. I mean who the hell is looking at this man going I got to get me some of him like he seems like quite the catch I mean it's just just the the the life arc I mean just even I mean I don't know I mean I don't understand what on earth is going through anyone's mind a rational thinking human beings mind to be like this is my partner I should stay with him and maybe that's the answer it's not a rational thought. Look at some baton they can batman got all those got all those wise. I know I can understand bateman even more because it's more of a cult dynamic and these people don't really know a world outside of you know that closed off community these are people who live in the rest of the world

11:34and see the rest of the world this is it's not like Susie hasn't had another life I mean her you know quadriplegic husband dies in the pool under weird circumstances I mean I don't know the whole damn thing is your in your pastor steals your wife. Everybody looks at this like oh it's love I mean or that's what they expect people to think I mean I can't is it really Shivan when you look at like someone like Susie and people that are still going to what's left of his church. Are these people who are just there they're way too close to the sun they can't see it I mean what I mean at some point. I just kind of kind of go well you know the ones who got out got out these are the ones who they're 200 mentally to ever really. See the light here and unless someone intervenes they're going to be another victim of his or they're just going to find the next charismatic cook that comes along. Yeah those are the women that I think you know when you look at who could you make an impact here with some kind of therapy those are the women that I think you could work with it's like because my guess is there's something in their past that has really impaired their judgment when it comes to what is love what what is a healthy relationship.

12:50They don't know they don't know and they're going to you know and being with a man like this certainly which we saw with my you start to lose your mind after a while you become anxious depressed hyper vigilant you get trauma symptoms his sexual behavior alone. Yeah cause some unhealthy responses in a partner and so those are the folks I would like to sit down with and really explore what is the attraction here and what is in your background that would make you feel like you're worthy of someone like this because there's something there. You know there are a course of control laws in certain states and hopefully that expands further as time goes on. The lot of people are looking at this doc there's some insinuation in there of like well it's weird with a gun landed and we can give that a little bit but at the end of the day this and I've examined this case for years it truly it does not look like he actually killed her like bang bang with the gun or anything like that by all accounts I mean she's on I mean it's pretty well documented looks like she off herself I think that's an established fact in this case it still doesn't make it any better.

14:04It's how she got there though I mean not physically she's the appears to have driven herself she's on camera but but mentally how how she got there. We've seen cases where a teen has suggested to another teen who wanted to end their life go ahead and do it and they've been charged you know I believe it's an accessory to the murder or something of that nature. When you don't necessarily have exactly that you don't necessarily have I mean as far as we know in the record him saying yeah go do this to yourself but just the torturous behavior that leads someone there of like I have no choice I'm better off dead which seems to be kind of what she was thinking at the moment. How do is that something we can ever truly go after because it seems this sort of torturous behavior that people do it to each other I mean this is what we see on camera this is what's documented but I think a lot of us throughout our lives could could look at people we've known or known and go yeah they've done that to people are they been a victim of that and it's just it seems to be how life works for a lot of people should there be should that be something that is looked at closer should there be penalties for really really horrible behavior.

15:19That leads people down some of these paths I sure vote I sure vote for that how can we and I know that there are lots of gray areas with how do you define coercive control I mean I call it a long standing pattern of deceit entitlement exploitation lack of empathy and certainly this case fit all of those things you've got the monitoring devices the razor blades and the tires yeah the threats the 50 phone calls in a day trying to harass her we need better ways to intervene in that because that kind of thing I think for a vulnerable person who's been told she's not mentally well and to what degree was that this treatment that she was getting or you know was there an underlying mental health condition we can't be sure but we need to do a better job of it. You know I think police officers they're not social workers and and can we embed more social worker I mean this is just my random idea I don't know if anybody would think it was possible but who when there's this kind of complaint going on can a social worker who's affiliated with the police department go out and spend time with the victim and really try to way through what is the evidence here what are your options.

16:47And then get the law enforcement system to intervene sooner and to do more and you know if he had spent a bit of time in jail for some of this behavior it might have put a stop to it. And that's a big problem here because Mike it made over a dozen nine one one calls begging for help yes but police frequently and I mean they're operating by the law here I'm not I'm not trying to fault the police here but police frequently treated the stolen property and. The complaints and that as a civil matter because they were married it's it's almost like if they weren't married if they were strangers and he was during this to her there's more they could have done because she said I do it was almost a free ticket to you know this insanity and to abuse essentially I mean how often do is this a factor in these cases where because they're married there's less the law can do about it. I think traditionally it's it's been a factor and it probably varies from place to place from police department to police department from from city to county how tuned in are they to this stuff and certainly they need more training but even if you train police officers well.

18:02I think most of them are well meaning when they go out on these cases but they're limited by what the law says they can do and I still think you need a mental health person. To come out and spend time with the person who's making the reports of the stocking we've got to take stocking behavior seriously that kind of monitoring because it can lead to a lethal outcome and the most dangerous time in a coercive controlling relationship like this which we can just say an abusive relationship is when the victim is trying to leave and that's when it escalates and that's when it can get crazy and we need to do a better job of protecting victims. Yeah they definitely weren't doing that when she put in for the protective order and there was a lay on that I believe and so Tony what's the case kind of slipping my mind because we've been so focused on this one you we covered it the other day where the death of two-pock yeah yeah so so that charge was he didn't pull the trigger but since he's in the car he's able to be charged with murder do you actually what was the statute he was actually be charged under that because I wonder if if there's any like parallel you could do.

19:11The receives part of it but not part of it. I know that's part of a conspiracy charge I mean he I mean this wouldn't be technically conspiracy because the yeah I mean it's totally different. I know because I know I know it is but I'm so with you because there should be some sort of a couple ability for this this mental torture this again which is essentially what the federal I mean the federal charges they seem to be reaching as far as they can reach because for whatever reason it doesn't appear that any local authorities have exercised their reach of what they can do to him so the fact that then stalking and stalking yeah I mean essentially it's a stalking charge it just to kind of it's what yeah I mean that's that's where it's at right now not to say it couldn't get bigger but a lot of times charges start somewhere and then kind of escalate from there in terms of investigation so I'm sure they're yeah I'm sure they're looking at all I'd be very curious we're talking earlier about the digital footprint what exactly is he Google yeah you know like what what is that'll tell so much like what is his end goal is it like drive someone to out end themselves or what are they what is he searching for and then following that that playbook so

20:18it'll be interesting on that one too is not just on the digital pattern but also the purchase pattern so he bought the tracking devices put on her car yeah what's the likelihood that's the only car he's ever tracked you know slim the nil right so I think they're going to really discover a lot about the pattern his life and so you have one stalking charge you might wind up getting more I think you'd find probably a lot of people that that's my it's my control control control does does one of the big I guess one that JP knew that he had on everybody and a lot of people exercises whether they're a pastor or not is is the Jesus card the fact that he was a pastor John Paul is his name JP you know I see it in business a lot especially here in the south where I live you'll see crucifixes like worked into like signs like Timmy's plumbing and it's a crucifix for the tea some shit like that. Those are usually the businesses I stay away from because I feel like when

21:19you're overtly using the cross as part of your marketing scheme, it seems to kind of go against most of what I think, you know, Jesus probably taught it. It wasn't like, use what I died on as part of your marketing scheme to get more money. Like this doesn't seem like it's part of the Bible. Tony has a negative confirmation bias. I do have a negative confirmation bias because every person in every business I've ever worked with that does that has been slimy as shit and has really been some of the worst human beings I've ever worked with. And I'm sure there's probably lovely ones out there. But that's my negative confirmation bias. But it feels like people like that really use that to an extreme and they get a pass. They get a pass from so many people who are just like, well, he's a pastor. It's gone across. It's just like don't question that because they're afraid what that might reflect on them if they question the pastor. I'm thinking J.P. used that to advantage a lot here. Oh, a lot. Oh, a lot. It's so manipulative. And the issue about is church a

22:22safe place? Are you safe? You know, on so many levels with somebody who's broadcasting their Christianity. And I think there are. So I know we have a lot of viewers who are Christians. I get emails from folks. And I think there are healthy ways to be a Christian. And it can be a wonderful source of comfort for people. I don't want to knock it. People it works very well for them. But there are toxic ways and a toxic person can take and pervert something. And to something that's scary and abusive, you know, one of the things I'm always thinking about when I talk with my clients and they're very religious, is their faith helping them? Or is their faith diminishing them? Building shame within them? Is it building blind obedience? Is it causing problems? Is it causing

23:25anxiety and depression? And then they're in this bind because they start not being able to feel their feelings because that means they're disobeying God. If they acknowledge that, you know, maybe the pastor has done some bad things. But I can't criticize the pastor. I can't criticize the plumber with the bumper stickers all over his car. But there's a huge manipulative factor in that. Yeah. If you're afraid to do something because of fear, that's what you should get away from. Yeah. It's pretty simple. It's recognizing the signs and having a fear of speaking about it. It's like being on an airplane and seeing someone with a knife and they're acting a little, but I don't want to, I don't want to disturb anybody. I want to disturb the stewardess or the captain or say, hey, this is over here. This is going to be a fine flight. It'll be good. I'm not going to say anything because everybody's on the plane. We're all just trying to get where we're going, right? The guy with the knife over here is not, you know, it's it's like saying, I'm not going to, I don't like American Airlines. Why? Because of 9-11. Well, the 9-11 hijackers were not employees

24:30of American Airlines. They hijacked the airplanes. And that's the thing. It's being able to recognize the people who are trying to hijack something that is good, that has a purpose, that does good things. And using it for their own twisted reasons. We need to be able to identify that sort of shit. And not just go along with it because we want to, you know, enjoy the flight. Well, sometimes some people don't and they need to be called out for it. Your thoughts in the comments section on Substack and YouTube as we continue to break down death of a pastor's wife on Netflix right now. The story of John Paul Miller and Micah Miller. And don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony Brusky and the Hidden Killers podcast.

25:34What does it actually take to rent a remote lodge in the Amazon or guide travelers across Antarctica on the Adventure Life Travel Show? Post Jason Maynard sits down with the expedition leaders, lodge owners, and trip planners who make adventure travel happen. The real stories behind the destinations. New conversations every month packed with insight you won't find in a brochure. Search Adventure Life Travel Show on iHeartRadio and start listening today. A trip they don't call it an extra value meal for nothing. Get a big Mac meal only at McDonald's. Pricing participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. This is an ad by BetterHelp. Think about your mentors and idols, the people who inspire you most. While it may look like they have all the answers, they don't. But they do know when to ask questions and seek the support they need. In a world that glorifies hyperindependence. It's easy to forget

26:38that we're all better with a support system. Therapy is a great way to find a consistent source of support in your life. So you can break free from the outdated belief that seeking help is a sign of weakness. BetterHelp has experienced therapists ready to help you with challenges, ranging from anxiety and depression to relationships and stress. It's convenient too. You can join a session with the click of a button helping you fit therapy into your busy life and you deserve that. You can even send your therapist a message anytime something comes up. Build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com. Standing beside a glacier, swimming with turtles in the Galapagos Islands, or being invited to dinner

27:40in a remote village that few travelers ever see. Adventure life specializes in custom journeys and small chakrisis that bring you closer to nature, local cultures, and unforgettable experiences around the world. Work one-on-one with a trip planner who uses firsthand travel experience to tailor-make your trip around your interests, travel style, and budget. Visit adventurelife.com today to begin your next adventure. Your sausage muffin with egg didn't change, you received it. The sausage muffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Pricing participation may vary, promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. Imagine standing beside a glacier, swimming with turtles in the Galapagos Islands, or being invited to dinner in a remote village that few travelers ever see. Adventure life specializes in custom journeys and small chakrisis that bring you closer to nature, local cultures, and unforgettable experiences around the world. Work one-on-one with a trip planner who uses firsthand travel experience to tailor-make your

28:44trip around your interests, travel style, and budget. Visit adventurelife.com today to begin your next adventure. Your sausage muffin with egg didn't change, you received it. The sausage muffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Pricing participation may vary, promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. Imagine standing beside a glacier, swimming with turtles in the Galapagos Islands, or being invited to dinner in a remote village that few travelers ever see. Adventure life specializes in custom journeys and small chakrisis that bring you closer to nature, local cultures, and unforgettable experiences around the world. Work one-on-one with a trip planner who uses firsthand travel experience to tailor-make your trip around your interests, travel style, and budget. Visit adventurelife.com today to begin your next adventure.

29:52Imagine standing beside a glacier, swimming with turtles in the Galapagos Islands, or being invited to dinner in a remote village that few travelers ever see. Adventure life specializes in custom journeys and small chakrisis that bring you closer to nature, local cultures, and unforgettable experiences around the world. Work one-on-one with a trip planner who uses firsthand travel experience to tailor-make your trip around your interests, travel style, visit adventurelife.com today to begin your next adventure.

31:19To learn more, visit thelongue.com Real value shows up in reliability. You don't have to second guess. Like a set of Firestone All-Season Tires, they're designed to deliver confidence-inspiring wet weather traction and a quieter ride, no matter the road, season after season. Firestone All-Season Tires. For durability, you can count on, just like people count on you. Firestone, always dependable since 1900.